Hey Greg, those are correct. Don't forget EVA which is the perfect middle. Still moisture stable, compatible with 3rd party films, and doesn't really have a side preference.
@@LearnGlazing Yep, EVA works well in interior decorative projects that include a lot of colors because of it's clarity, and in solar panels due to clarity and moisture resistance. Not a big fan in safety applications though. Most EVA's in my experience lack tear resistance necessary to work in that application, despite what the manufacturers claim. It's curious how DuPont, who introduced SentryGlasPlus (not to be be confused with SentryGlas or SpallShield at the time), didn't know how poor the product adhesion was to the air side when they introduced it. Of course newer version available today is supposed to have a solid airside adhesion, but still prefer to use the tin side. Good stuff! Thanks for the videos!
@@gregcorwin8316 We Appreciated the response. When Kurary bought DuPont a few years ago they did improve the quality of the product. They now also state to use an adhesion promoter on non-tin sides of the glass. But you are right, the adhesion is far better than it was. As for EVA, you would be surprised. While it does not have the strength that SG has if both lights of glass are broken, it actually has better elasticity. So, in a guardrail application, SentryGlas is definitely the preferred choice, canopies are arguable. Check out these two videos. They are quite interesting. They compare after-glass failure on a canopy deflection and load over time. th-cam.com/video/RcpnOEkwMoY/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DeGorter%2CInc. th-cam.com/video/p5K7hxaqUZI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DeGorter%2CInc.
@@LearnGlazing Thanks and I also really appreciate (and enjoy) the conversation. It's not often that people on youtube reply, so when it happens, it's worth follow up. I really enjoyed the videos thanks for sharing!. I was especially interested in the high temperature testing of both EVA and SG laminated glass products. I am also quite familiar with Evalam, it's a product that we have used in the past, along with several other different EVA interlayers. I like a lot of things about using EVA, but I have never used an EVA that had the tear strength of PVB. I probably should mention that for the last 10 years before I retired (2019), I was the quality (including product reliability, testing, and technical) manager with the biggest user of SentryGlas in the world. We also used more PVB and some years more EVA than any other non-automotive user in North America. Kuraray acquiring Dupont lamination division made for some interesting times, especially when Kuraray divested their original Trosifol assets and changed the name of Dupont PVB from Butacite to Trosifol. There was definite confusion when that happened! Of course when Dupont changed the name of SentryGlas Plus to simply SentryGlas and changed the name of the original SentryGlas to SpallShield, that resulted in a lot of head scratching as well! The only saving grace was that not very many people were actually using SpallShield at the time.
How do you determine which side is the tin side and which is the air side? I know if i order IGUs, the fabricator should already have determined that, but what about if I'm ordering monolithic glass? Thank you.
Kira, You are correct, fabricators know because they use a tin detector. EDTM makes a few different ones. This is one of the more popular ones. www.edtm.com/index.php/ts1320-commercial-tin-side-detector
If you install an IGU with a LowE coating, the coating will almost always be on the airside, but in very few instances will it matter to a homeowner which side is which. It makes no difference if you are looking through the air side or tin side of clear glass because you can't see any difference at all.
@@kiravanderzanden Hey Kira, sorry about the late response. It's not the only way, but honestly, the easiest way as the tools are very easy to use and clear on the results. The price isn't that bad either and if a company needs to know, they are worth the investment.
You can also use a 254nm UVC light. The tin side will fluoress under the light and the air side won't. The typical "black light" is 365nm UVA and will not work.
So interesting! Thanks for educating us!
Thanks, Mia, happy to. Keep it up with your great videos also.
Of the two primary laminated glass interlayers, PVB prefers the air side and SentryGlas (SG or SGP) prefers the tin side.
Hey Greg, those are correct. Don't forget EVA which is the perfect middle. Still moisture stable, compatible with 3rd party films, and doesn't really have a side preference.
@@LearnGlazing Yep, EVA works well in interior decorative projects that include a lot of colors because of it's clarity, and in solar panels due to clarity and moisture resistance. Not a big fan in safety applications though. Most EVA's in my experience lack tear resistance necessary to work in that application, despite what the manufacturers claim.
It's curious how DuPont, who introduced SentryGlasPlus (not to be be confused with SentryGlas or SpallShield at the time), didn't know how poor the product adhesion was to the air side when they introduced it.
Of course newer version available today is supposed to have a solid airside adhesion, but still prefer to use the tin side.
Good stuff! Thanks for the videos!
@@gregcorwin8316 We Appreciated the response.
When Kurary bought DuPont a few years ago they did improve the quality of the product. They now also state to use an adhesion promoter on non-tin sides of the glass. But you are right, the adhesion is far better than it was.
As for EVA, you would be surprised. While it does not have the strength that SG has if both lights of glass are broken, it actually has better elasticity. So, in a guardrail application, SentryGlas is definitely the preferred choice, canopies are arguable.
Check out these two videos. They are quite interesting. They compare after-glass failure on a canopy deflection and load over time.
th-cam.com/video/RcpnOEkwMoY/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DeGorter%2CInc.
th-cam.com/video/p5K7hxaqUZI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DeGorter%2CInc.
@@LearnGlazing Thanks and I also really appreciate (and enjoy) the conversation. It's not often that people on youtube reply, so when it happens, it's worth follow up.
I really enjoyed the videos thanks for sharing!. I was especially interested in the high temperature testing of both EVA and SG laminated glass products. I am also quite familiar with Evalam, it's a product that we have used in the past, along with several other different EVA interlayers. I like a lot of things about using EVA, but I have never used an EVA that had the tear strength of PVB.
I probably should mention that for the last 10 years before I retired (2019), I was the quality (including product reliability, testing, and technical) manager with the biggest user of SentryGlas in the world. We also used more PVB and some years more EVA than any other non-automotive user in North America.
Kuraray acquiring Dupont lamination division made for some interesting times, especially when Kuraray divested their original Trosifol assets and changed the name of Dupont PVB from Butacite to Trosifol. There was definite confusion when that happened! Of course when Dupont changed the name of SentryGlas Plus to simply SentryGlas and changed the name of the original SentryGlas to SpallShield, that resulted in a lot of head scratching as well! The only saving grace was that not very many people were actually using SpallShield at the time.
Can the end user tell which side is which?
Not really. The only way to know is by using special equipment like tin detectors.
How do you determine which side is the tin side and which is the air side? I know if i order IGUs, the fabricator should already have determined that, but what about if I'm ordering monolithic glass? Thank you.
Kira, You are correct, fabricators know because they use a tin detector. EDTM makes a few different ones.
This is one of the more popular ones. www.edtm.com/index.php/ts1320-commercial-tin-side-detector
@@LearnGlazing So, basically, the only convenient way is with the tin detector? Thank you!
Another option is to shine a 254nm UVC light on the glass. The tin side will fluoresce (glow) but the air side will not.
If you install an IGU with a LowE coating, the coating will almost always be on the airside, but in very few instances will it matter to a homeowner which side is which. It makes no difference if you are looking through the air side or tin side of clear glass because you can't see any difference at all.
@@kiravanderzanden Hey Kira, sorry about the late response. It's not the only way, but honestly, the easiest way as the tools are very easy to use and clear on the results. The price isn't that bad either and if a company needs to know, they are worth the investment.
How is the Tin side determined?
Hey Tim. Are you asking how you can tell which one the tin side is?
there is a company called EDTM that makes some tin detectors.
You can also use a 254nm UVC light. The tin side will fluoress under the light and the air side won't. The typical "black light" is 365nm UVA and will not work.