Hay Chronicles as many of my audience have reminded me from our KTM500 build, and they've backed with comprehensive youtube videos, it does have a cush, it's in the clutch basket. Don't feel too bad, you're in good company, I didn't know either.
@MAD TV @COS @Hadrian Haine A new blank DS-canvas 2023. 690/701 Enduro are ace but bugger top/heavy. DS riders want WR450F, CR450L, 500 EXC, FE501 w. single cylinder engines + long service diary aka The Unicorn! Who will release it first? If not , let AI calculate and exhibit it at Eicma -22.
The dampers in the clutch are not even 10% of a cush drive and the stock ones wear out quikly. Every one replaces them with Recluse dampers which are more durable
I own a 2021 KTM 500 exc. It have 511 hours and almost 21000km on the clock. Never had a problem with it. I change the oil every 30 hours and check the valve clearace every 100 hours. Never needed any adjustments and is still in specs. I use the bike on the farm and ocasional fun duros. Love it!
Wow! That’s a lot of ridding for 1 year! Thanks for the comment. My 2012 is a great bike. Bought it used and avoided the ridiculous new bike premium the KTM asks (a very rich guy paid for that and he maintained the bike perfectly up to the 180hr point when I got it). I’m going to take him for a ride today (not the previous owner…;) ).
you do oil changes every 30 hours?...... i do oil changes on my 2023 every 5 hours dude. the most i would ever ever ever push the bike is 15 hours before oil change
@@maximcorbett2430 5 hours? i can't even get back to the car and trailer in less than 10 , hahaha i am sorry but no bro, calling you on that one. no you don't
You don't have to modify anything to get that bike right now. Aaron Steinmann put 140,000 KM on his 500 EXC-F and didn't do the top end until 67,000 KM (my XR650L needed a top end at 25,000 KM) and changing the oil every 2000-2500 km, which is longer than the specified DRZ400 oil change interval. Valves on the 500 are legendarily stable, rarely ever requiring adjustment (my DRZ needs them just about every time I check them). KTM specs their service intervals for racing conditions. You DO NOT need to change the oil every 10 hours if you're just dual sporting. As for the parts issue, sure. You're right on that. Hard to find parts for a higher performance, lower production machine than a DRZ or XR650L or DR650. That's a drawback, just like the electrical issues on a KTM vs the simple carburetion of the dinosaurs. For me, the performance is absolutely worth it.
drz400e oil change interval is 6000km for normal use half interval 3000km is recommended for extreme conditions. valve clearance inspection interval is 24,000km. it's not normal for a drz to need any valve adjustment at all before 40,000km unless airfilter maintenance is extremely slack.
@@6226superhurricane oh you're right, the manual does call for longer oil changes. Literally everything I've read in owners forums online says 1000-1200 miles (1600-1900 km). Apparently it's the same issue as the KTM intervals but flipped- Suzuki's intervals are specced for if you're cruising on the road doing easy riding, but if you're doing harder riding you should change it more often. I know my oil is black as the ace of spades when I have pushed it past 2500+ km on the DRZ, so I stick with 1600 km. Also, like I said, I have yet to have to adjust the valves on either my KTM 530 or Husqvarna FE501S (KTM carried the top end from the 530 to the 500 motor almost unchanged because it was so good), where the DRZ has needed adjustment both checks (10,000 km apart). This kinda puts a good light on the KTM factory intervals. I think they do themselves a disservice by only speccing for race conditions, because it creates this myth of an unreliable bike that you need to replace the motor on every 5 hours. If they would do as Suzuki does and give maintenance intervals for racing use AND for road use, I'm sure it would help their image. I can't imagine changing my oil every 6k I'm on either bike, just as I can't imagine changing the oil at 10 hours on either bike. For my use cases, neither would work. Also, the 500 motor is SO unbelievably easy to work on. Checking the valves takes about 5 minutes and adjusting them would take maybe 15 more minutes, as you don't have to remove the cams. It's a SOHC motor and you just pull the rocker arms out the side of the head (two bolts) and then the shims are right there. Much easier than pulling the CCT, cam chain, cams, etc. The DRZ is a great bike. I love mine and I'll keep it forever, but metallurgy and machine tolerances move forward, and the 500 is just such a gem of a bike. I am actively piling ADV and commuting miles onto my 530 just because it's such a delightful vehicle, way more fun than any of my big bikes. Yeah, I might be taking a hit in reliability compared to my XR650L or DRZ, I might risk being stranded with no parts available, but honestly, it's all about the risk acceptance. I don't see it as terribly risky based on my experience with the bikes, and I see the reward (being able to ride the greatest dual sport bikes ever) as totally worth the small risk. Meanwhile, almost everyone I know is afraid of motorcycling at all because they think it's horridly dangerous and scary and not worth it at all. I'm not gonna let a little risk ruin my good mood as I wheelie my 60 hp bike into the sunset :)
Well sir I’ve worked on as a fully qualified tech & owned Japanese bikes for over 40yrs the only way you destroy a top in premature is dirty air which gives you dirty oil quicker or over heating them which would have to be bad for that to happen . Are you sure you are using them for dual sport or single track mainly …. Yes I’m sure your KTM’s are fine machines but there is nothing wrong with the Japanese ones & I’m sure plenty would agree .
@@gregbrown5473 I never said there was anything wrong. What I'm saying is that the KTM 500 motor is extremely durable and the bad rap that KTMs got in the early 2000s is undeserved today. My XR650L air filter was always clean and serviced. The problem was that the motor got too hot (a regular issue on that bike) and broke down the oil. I fixed that with an aftermarket oil cooler. Japanese bikes are not perfect, nor are KTMs, but I would have no qualms about taking my KTM around the world tomorrow. They're a lot more reliable than you think.
I own a Husky FE 501 and would not change a thing. You can make this bike into whatever you like with a few minor mods and different tyres / gearing. Your wish list for a D version would probably add too much weight IMO and it would end up being closer to a 690. Cheers
Had a 501 for a short stint. Too much vibrations. I hated every second behind the bars. Must be a personal thing because most owners I spoke with don't mind
@@gxm164 Yes it’s a personal thing. I never noticed any vibes. Others do. Newer models a bit smoother than the older ones. It’s not great on the highway but ok for an hour or less. Then when you get to the bush it really shines. Cheers
@@gxm164 Supermoto youngsters install cush drive hub, flexbars ´n´ other riders install steering damper, rally tower on 501. Are the wheels balanced and steering+wheel bearings checked? For comparison, have you tried the CRF450L/RL?
I’m sporting a WR250R I’m hoping that since it’s been discontinued that they might come out with the unicorn 450, come on Yamaha! Thanks for the video your right though, that’s all everyone wants.
A dual sport yz450f would be amazing, i really want them to do a ktm killer aswell big bore the yz250 to a yz300 or maybe even bigger (i'd love a yz500 personally haha) create a stator for it which can handle lighting and battery charging and reinforce the subframe a little. The lack of high out put stators is my biggest gripe with yz250's though i always buy them over an exc300 and even sold a 450exc to go back to my beloved yz250 come on yamaha give the people what we want i'd be happy if they just designed a better high outout stator and a larger case to fit it if necessary i wouldn't want the yz250 engine to be changed much if at all because it's absolutely amazing
Come on, Solid :) CRF300L with less than 8 liters od fuel weights 142kg. 701 Enduro with 13 lifers of fuel is 155kg. The bike you are talking about is 690/701 - 10k km service intervals, powerful single engine, reasonable electronics, good suspension. Wide range of modifications available. But I absolutely would love to see CRF500L/Rally with 10k km service intervals and good suspension. I would be on the line to buy one.
Wet weight: KTM 690 350.0 lbs (158.8 kg) Husqvarna 701 344.2 lbs (156.1 kg) Way too heavy uphill gnarly single track. Bloody ripper- Would aslo buy a futuristic Paris-Dakar Honda CRF500+650L Rally or a modern XR aka Baja1000 racer based on the Honda concept bikes CB125X and Honda CB125M with a 500cc+650cc single cylinder engine. Flyweight, long service intervals and with single cylinder engines ツ
@@KevinDaken DR650SE from previous years that is still under warranty? Is the 2022 white Honda XR650L available in NZ? Honda CRF300L and CRF300L Rally. Some CRF300L riders install a smaller rally LED tower. Then there is the Kawasaki KLR650, Husqvarna 701 Enduro and KTM 690 Enduro R. A true dual sport: Suzuki DR-Z400E 2022 in stock! 400cc $9,995 + O.R.C
@@KevinDaken Eicma is just around the corner, but it doesn't look like there will be any lightweight 500cc-650cc with long service intervals. Base your next bike on how you ride e.g. 70/30 50/50 etc? The best advice is to test bikes at dealers. Don't know if Yamaha XT660Z Tenere Abs ever were sold in NZ. A new bike closest to DR650 with Abs would be: Kwak KLR 650 KTM 690 Enduro GAS GAS ES700 Enduro Husqvarna 701 Enduro
I bought a new 2021 KTM 500 EXC-F off the showroom floor. In my experience the last 17 months everything you said is spot on. This was my first KTM, having previously owned a brand new 2008 Yamaha WR450 and several other pre-owned Japanese makes/models so the service interval and cost of maintenance / parts on the KTM was a shock, to say the least. I've done the few obvious mods / add-ons to all the bikes I own. For maintenance, though, I usually just left everything to my local mechanic, who was was better at it, had better resources available, and got the jobs done in about half the time it would have taken me. I ride a lot of miles here in the southern California desert so the short KTM service intervals are magnified. Sending the bike to someone every other week is no longer feasible, due to expense and scheduling. With the EXC-F I'm back to doing it myself, but on a platform that's less forgiving, with tighter tolerances, more expensive parts with lover availability, and a bit more difficulty in finding correct technical and procedural information for the bigger jobs. My opinion after about 1.5 years of owning my first KTM? It's test bike I've ever owned. I do wish it could go longer between service intervals, and a touch wider ratio between a couple gears would be great. Other than that, it's the perfect platform IMO.
Solid, Hate to burst yer bubble but it ain't happening, At all, by anybody. The T7 got made because Yamaha had the motor already. KTM has the motor(s) kinda but they are not in a position to modify them and expand the service network to make them viable. No talk of a 350-ish Yamaha because they don't have a motor that will work there and are not going to spend the money to develop one. Why, you ask? Because the UK is stopping all ICE 125 and under in 2030, Aus has stopped the DR coming in, the EU standards are expensive and as you noted kill the power you need. It's all part of the 'great reset'. Keep what you have and or get the one in production now that will serve cause they are all going away sooner than you think. Some will say I'm just spouting doom and gloom. I say it's simple observation of what is already happening.
Buy a good 2nd hand exc for around $10,000+, which is the same price as a CRF300 Rally and then add on the extras you mentioned. You are nowhere near $20,000. You know about rtwPaul so do your homework. He just had his bike serviced in Mattighofen by KTM, with 800 hrs/50,000 km and the mechanic told him to wait another 250 hrs then it will need a top end ie. that will be 1,050 hrs/65,000km. And that is with oil changes at 2-3,000 km. I built my own rear rack and pannier frame and I can carry 25 kg and in any case, many people are using throw over systems so there are no subframe issues. For the cost of your recent suspension mods, you could buy a Hahn Cush drive wheel and 15/20 l tank for a 500 and also get excellent traction control as standard. Wishing is not going to bring out this bike, do it yourself. And kiss goodbye to the 490 Adventure, KTM made it clear to rtwPaul it’s not going to happen. Waiting for the KTM haters.
Trust me KTM knows exactly what they are doing they want there to be aftermarket manufacturers to keep the sport alive and give the user a choice to personalize there bike the way they want it everything thing you said can be bought aftermarket and that's exactly what ktm wanted to keep this sport strong.
i think suzuki is in the best position to build this bike, their main priority has always been reliability, their range is due for an update. the 400e already makes 40hp at the wheel it's already as light as it's japanese 250-300 dual sport competitors. they could get more power out of the 400 without losing it's bulletproof reliability, they can get better economy with efi, they can improve road manners with a wider ratio box, they can switch the ergos from race bike more towards comfort, they can shed a small amount of weight with new led lighting, instrument cluster, mirrors etc. can't expect too much weight loss without sacrificing reliability. the drz suspension is great as is and only needs to be stiffer . but i'm sure people that only care about looks would want usd forks which is a shame because you lose reliability. so basically they could update the drz 250,400 and 650 and steal a big chunk of the market and maybe give the other japanese manufacturers the balls to dive into the market with better offerings.
Suzuki is not in the best position to build anything. Rumors are they are planning to stop producting motorcycles at all, apart from 110cc Asian market scooters. That's where they make 80% of their money.
SUZUKI no longer sells 400 drz and 650 dr since 2004 in EUROPE (updates with more complicated standards got the better of these models) so to say that SUZUKI is well placed to produce a dual sport motorcycle in 2023 does not seem to me realistic.
@@atprodT700 i didn't say they would. i said they are in the best position to, due to their current bikes decades old designs still ticking a lot of the boxes. out of all the japanese manufacturers they are the most likely though.
I love my Beta 500 RR-S. Bigger tank, DID Dirtstar cush drive wheels, Scotts dampner, Iso-vibe handlebar mounts, HDB handguards and Seat Concepts seat, Fastway kickstand, 4 LED headlight, resprung for 100 kg rider, etc. Amazing bike. Just dont ask how much I have in it!
Im in a similar boat with my fe501 husky. Loads spent on mods and I love it. Like the video is proving it would be great if they came more ready for this out of the factory ! Ok sine mods maybe be personal choice. But for sure a longer 6th gear a bigger oil capacity and a stronger subframe for starters 👍
Hey Solid, just throwing it out there.. Fun fact: The F in EXC-F is for Four stroke. The older EXC models were two strokes. The E is for Enduro, the X for Cross and the C for country. So the bike you're describing would probably be a ADS-F 500. Adventure Dual Sport Four stroke? Sounds a bit lame though.. Might as well be a vacuum cleaner 😂
Actually you're incorrect. EXC vernacular was also used on 4strokes way back, including in 520EXC, 525EXC, 530EXC, and modern 500EXC's, never was just a 2stroke thing. Same for the 250, 350, 400, 450 variants over time.
These points are why I chose a crf 300 rally. It would be nice to have more power on road. But adventure riding I usually have gear on the bike anyway. So weight is not a huge issue . And the 70mpg is great for the range. And at 6500 us. It was a bargain
Add more oil capacity = more weight Make components stronger = more weight Add subframe = more weight Bigger fuel tank = more weight Better seat = more weight …..,.the list goes on + all of this costs more money . People have been asking for the unicorn from the beginning of the time and manufacturers have looked in to this trust me . People will not pay the price it’s simple as that and the dual sport bikes like the 690 are as close as you will ever come to what you want . Improve your riding skills stop complaining about the bikes . Why do you think that the Dual sport bikes are “heavy “ ? Do you really think that the manufacturers want to waste expansive materials and parts just to upset you all ? There is downside to ultra light weight machines like this , less material means less life , less oil means more oil changes it’s really that simple .
Good discussion, thank you. I'm currently putting together a 2023 500 EXC-F to be my Rally bike for the TET here in Spain and beyond. Yes, the service intervals as stated are crazy but from users like "RTWPaul" and others that have actually done oil analysis you can easily go 2000km+ on a quality synthetic oil/filter change. The bike here is €11,999 stock, adding a Rade Rally kit and an LED signal array, Acerbis 15L tank, Scotts Damper, bash plate, and Seat Concepts comfort seat adds another €2500 or so.
@@chroniclesofsolid my CRF450L feels like the closest thing to a unicorn, but being in the UK, did have to shell out for an aftermarket ECU. I rode motocross last weekend and did get some funny looks but performed great, and was able to ride it home :)
There must be some kind of corporate logic for not making the unicorn bike that millions of us want ?. Fantic nearly did it but with its questionable Chinese motor, almost nonexistent dealer network & just being to fat around the middle I can't bring myself to go there.
@@max.fleming1045 Your hardcore question with obvious examples: underpowered and bad suspension Honda CRF300L/300L Rally and heavy/top heavy Tenere 700. Why don't they become the ultralight 500-550cc omni sports machines that generations of riders worldwide demand....
@@max.fleming1045 You mentioned the Fantic XEF 450 Rally. Kayo and CF Moto can make dual sport bikes. KOVE Colove GPX 450 Rally th-cam.com/users/shortss98A94DOnGY?feature=share
i absolutely, 100% agree with you. you have no idea how many times i've ranted to my friends about how KTM should make either a 550\500cc, 130kg wet weight version of the 690. or just a light adv rally version of the 500. which they can do by doing what you said, and using the 500 exc as the base for it. because as you said they're within a bee's dick distance of it. i would absolutely buy that damned bike within the first second i save up enough money for it.
Spot on! Very interesting survey. There is already a "dualsport" model of the KTM 500 Exc on the American market, which is set up to be ridden more generally as a "dualsport". KTM could further develop the dualsport concept with longevity that you are into and sell it to more parts of the world. It would be the DRZ400S/XR650L of the future and completely dominate the market because there is nothing like it. In comparison, what would the KTM 490 Enduro R with the 450 twin engine from CF Moto weigh though?
Technically mate the SWM RS 500 fitted with the Superduel screen , safari tank and Superduel wheels - for the rear rear Cush . Quite a few RS 500 owners have done ✅ this . And service intervals are in kms not hours . Parts for most bikes are not easy to get at present as well , and you don’t need to go to a dealer of that bike to service it . BUT I do agree that you cannot build say Yamaha or Honda for reliability and dealer support if you cannot do yourself.
Seriously, comparing a 500 excf to a crf300? You might as well compare it to a bicycle - then you wouldn't need the petrol and there's even more left over for the beer!
@@paulx4692 Okay, I'll just buy another WR450 to pull my first one around, and still have enough left over for beer. Are you trying to say your 500 excf is 3X's faster in the woods? Jump 3X's higher? hop logs 3X's the size?.. Does it do ANYTHING 3X's better? Or, it just needs 3X's the service, at 3X's the cost?
@@MOEMUGGY not if you buy used a properly maintained bike as I did with my 180h 2012 500 a few years ago. The bike is great, it has 1.5l oil capacity from the factory (up to 2016 models) and doesn’t have any of the emissions crap the newer bikes come with. It also has a kickstarter that the new ones don’t. Bought it for €5.5K or about $6k at the time.
@@C_R_O_M________ We're not talking about used, are we? And your decades old used KTM with more than half it's life gone that was probably abused and serviced by a knuckle-dragger, still cost as much as a new CRF300
@@MOEMUGGY wow! You got everything figured out don’t you! I know the “knuckle dragger” that was servicing the bike till new. He’s one of the best KTM authorized mechanics and dealers in Greece and if you want to compare the CRF300 with the EXC-500 be my guest but you’ll be comparing apples to watermelons. If you asked me only fools pay the premium full price when a very well used costs half that or less. BTW, even if my motor quits and it doesn’t seem to do so, $1500 buys me a new motor and I’ll be having a bike that runs circles around the 300CRF - which - BTW doesn’t fit me. It’s too small for me.
The only option I have found is to have two motorcycles. I have a 2017 KTM 1090R for fast pavement rides to easy off-road adventures, and a 2022 KTM 500 EXC-F for technical off-road riding. Both of my bikes have a Rekluse auto clutch, improved intake and exhaust, and KTM rally foot pegs. The 1090R is plenty fast and uses the factory ECU but the 500 has a Vortex ECU and air box reeds removed. Both have a Scott's steering damper for safer riding in sand and rocks. Part of riding motorcycles is designed each bike for your individual needs; to me that is an important part of the adventure. I see no need for an expensive car or truck, and would rather have two motorcycles the keep my ecstasy levels high as possible. I really enjoyed this video and completely agree with your perspective on KTM. I finally realized after nearly 60 years of riding motorcycles, it is my responsibility to build the bikes I want, no matter the cost. KTM simply designs and builds the best platform upon which to build my dream machines. Thanks for your channel!
KTM builds high performance bikes, I'd hate to see them dumb them down as it doesn't seem to fit their Motto! To me it seems a better build for kawasaki, suzuki, yamaha or honda as its a better fit. Great Video anyway!
I have a 701 and recently my mate on an exc500 and I both dropped our loaded bikes on a loose steep climb. He picked the exc up and rode off. I struggled for 20 minutes with the extra weight
I've built my own exc adventure taking a lot of inspiration from rtw Paul and it is an amazing little machine. Sadly I don't think KTM or any other big manufacturer will do this anytime soon because: A. Emissions, B. Price and C. Demand. AJP is just about the closest but its a bit heavy and no real dealer network. Based on no evidence just a hunch maybe triumph might be the one to surprise us all..
Great video Solid. Whichever manufacturer builds that bike will have record sales numbers IMO. Honda came pretty close with the 450L. At this point I'd just be happy to see manufacturer's getting the seat and the tank right. Dual sport riders don't do laps around a race track with a jerry can sitting in the box of our pick up. If the KTM team is reading this comment section then here's the want list: 16L/4 gallon+ tank mounted as low as possible, see Fisher seats for seat shape, optional kick starter? If designing a new subframe allow room for passenger pegs, tabs or threaded holes for saddlebag/rack attachments, doesn't need a rally tower but a small windscreen would be great. Stator that can run heated grips, a vest and charge a phone at the same time. Wet weight under 325lbs/145kg. Performance dual sport suspension but a seat height no higher than 36"/91.4cm. Priced like a T7.
I totally agree on this video. I have the husky FE501 2020 and trust me here in NZ I need road mileage as well as grade 5 lightness to get me around. A longer 6th gear would be awesome. So you could maybe reduce the rear to a 49 . I use 14 -50. Awesome off road but not really good for clocking 100kms. I have ran 48 rear and found it somewhat better and manageable off road. I’d say 49 is a great happy medium. But not for the road mileage at all. So now I’m using my bike for two seperate occasions! Cush hub and 14-45 seems pretty sound for road kms. But I wouldn’t entertain grade 5 especially some of those high country valley river crossings and steep gnarly hill climbs ! NO way. But fine for those grade 3 tracks! And longer 6-7 day country tours! Waiting now from nomad adv in Europe to send me the extended oil capacity side casing (300ml) it’s piece of mind. Obviously like any rider that does some miles on the seat upgrades to seat concepts or goes and modifies the seat at a upholstery place. Fuel tank upgrade is obvious. There is so much more I’ve added to this bike to get it to do what I want/need. And it’s all because I love a lightweight adventure bike to get me deep into the mountains of NZ. Simply can’t afford to run two bikes ! Otherwise I’d maybe have the 701 For this reason. And yes there is so many more mods needed too many to mention! So conclusion is I have the evidence to know and agree with this video. 👍.
Wind protection, taller gearing while maintaining a low first ratio, slightly lower compression and different cam for good grunt work, extended sub frame and a slightly lower seat height with a more comfy seat. Perfection!
Excellent ! Many thanks for this nice video ! You must send your CV to the KTM Mktg dpt...not sure to understand why they are not working on the model you describe.
I can do over 100 with my 2015 and I have a 14/49 when it came stock with a 14/48... Did they get slower??? Because in 6th, if I'm only doing 60 I need to downshift to have ANY sort of power 🤔
That would be brilliant. One thing I would pay for are titanium threads for the oil drains/filter. I use a torque wrench and still have had three go. The aluminum is just far too weak for so many oil changes. Particularly on used bikes, I figure the previous owner must have weakened them.
Way too top heavy and heavy weight for offroad uphills and gnarly single tracks. Wet weight: KTM 690 350.0 lbs (158.8 kg) Husqvarna 701 344.2 lbs (156.1 kg). The 690/701 and ES700 are based on a modard/supermoto. KTM 500 Exc and Honda CRF450L/RL are the closest travel enduros and serious dual sport bikes, the lack of long service intervals means that many do not choose these. Honda CRF300L/300L Rally and Yamaha Tenere 700 should become lightweight 500cc omni sports machines.
I own a Honda 450 L and a Husq EF501 S. Unfortunately with the exception of more oil all you are suggesting is a KTK 450L. The biggest advantage that the KTM EXC and FES have over the L is weight and all you are doing is add weight with your suggestions.
You are speaking to me! I want something light that I can trailer to the ‘good stuff’, and then decide to explore any single track I see, whilst also being able to camp for a day or 2, or not, but have all my camping and tool gear just in case.
hi. Enjoyed the video & it was very helpful as I’m currently saving $ towards a exc-f. However I wanted to do a supermoto build with it. Now I’m thinking what about the xcf-w? Or last is there a husky bike you could recommend more?
Cheers and agree with some points but if the guys just put a GET ecu on it...take away the hot/lean bottom end, resulting in more torque, most people would then rev it notably less as I do....less high revs, less wear. Yes to bigger oil capacity. Yes to heavy clutch-end plate that revoves all vibration problems, as I have proven!! 15 years ago metals, bushings and bearings were not lasting well on ktms but now, I just dont think the internals wear that fast if doing casual dual sport riding. Ok, bring on a D
I agree with your list. I love my 350exc-f but what would't I give for KTM to include a 5lbs subframe part way down the rear fender for a tail luggage or to firm up that floppy mess.
And cush drive hub. Have you heard about the 500 Exc model that is sold in the USA apparently marketed as "dual sport", unlike the model in Europe and maybe more countries, which is more of an enduro version. In the USA the 500 Exc has lower compression, throttled differently and made to be driven more generally (dual sport)
Nicely argued and positively initiated a useful brainstorming on that topic, I'm one of those (probably many? ) in fever of a such a EXC D , thank you !
i would vote KTM , as i ride KTM and find it well made ready to go , sure its pricey ,but its really all we have left , as my 390 adventure is no where a duel sport bike , but i find my needs are not really met , as my true off road is my 2011 ktm 250 exc 2 banger , which is great off road but not so good on road . what do we do? any way i just get out and ride . at 63 time is running out .great channel cheers Steve/Geraldton
You are totally right. It's a possibility that could and in our perspective should be made, but from the bean counting accountants at KTM it doesn't make as much sense. They are selling the 500exc why change it or make a sister bike for a market they believe they have already cornered with either their ex or adventure ranges. One thing they would have to add is abs. Up until October 2021 the 500exc was the no1 choice here in Kiwi land followed by the drz for new light weight adv. But now they are no more they can not be plated. They are merely dirt bikes, untill they have abs. So the questions are once you add cush drive, more oil and fuel, and abs, what weight will we be at? Are we still closer to 500 exc than 690 Enduro?
I think my 690 Enduro is really close to being perfect. If the first gear was lower and the sixth gear was a little bit taller it would be a unicorn bike. Especially now when I have a rally fairing on it
@@eugenelane3291 At least the 500 has a low enough first gear 😅. It shouldn’t be mechanically impossible to offer a decent gearbox on a dual sport 🤷🏻♂️
I would love to see the market studies the various companies do, and see the reasoning behind the designs. The European companies seem easy to figure out, road legal competition machines. Good for them for that offering. I don't understand the Japanese offerings. All of them are a major compromise, with what looks like low cost being the driver. The CRF450L is too heavy for the price. Would a lighter 300 or 350 (25 to 35lbs knocked off) with quality suspension priced in the $6500 to $7500 not sell? The aftermarket would support the light adventure crowd, and it would not break the bank at that price point to add on. Good video and synopsis?
Agreed. Nobody is making what you're describing. The KTM "adventures" of any size are not right for my purposes. I'll stick with my XR650R probably forever as a result... and be smiling all the way!
You're spot on with this video. I refuse to service a bike like the KTM 500exc requires. And for the price it costs. Like your CRF300L, my Drz vs the KTM will comparatively almost never require valve adjustments. And will certainly never require a top end rebuild, given regular oil changes. And so if KTM 500 had a machine I didn't have to work on, I may would buy it. But the KTM 500 is not worth the premium price to me given the service it requires. I would consider a KTM 500 that requires no more service intervals than the DRZ.
Actually the 500EXCs have a “cush clutch” and is not in dire need of a cush drive (unless you start using it as a Supermoto with street tires and backing it into corners by abrupt downshifting) . Cush clutch means that there are rubber inserts in the clutch basket that cushion the forces coming from the drivetrain. Moreover the 2012-2016 batch had, from factory, a 1.5L oil capacity, they didn’t come with any emissions crap and also had a kickstarter for when your electric starter fails (you still need the battery charged as the bikes are FI). Bargains arise in the used market. I got my 2012 with 180hrs, bought it from a very rich guy who had multiple rides and maintained them all meticulously, for just €5.5K or about $6K two years ago. The bike is great.
Ferrari should build a mini-van. They're really missing the boat without this in their lineup, I know tons of people, including myself, that are looking for that performance oriented mini van (Unicorn) that no one seems make. Come on Ferrari!
Im hoping that purchasing a 2023 ktm 450xcfw with a bare bones street legal kit get's close to the ideal dual sport at least for my type of riding... around town, fire roads, mountain trails, etc.
While I think your idea makes some sense there's another way to look at this which everyone will hate me for. I can't tell you how many hair scrambles and multi day dual sport events I competed in. I was always in the to top 25% of the pack or better. But I was also a mid 40's rider who smoked two packs a day and didn't work out. If I was younger and in better shape I'd be much closer still to the front of the pack. What's funny is I did all this on a self modified 98 DR350. Yes, at the time a 10-14 year old heavy dual sport. I loved ripping past all the KTM'S. You see, 80% of the riders out there, or more, aren't good enough to even push a DRZ400 to any where near its limits. They love blaming the bikes weight, old technology. It's much easier to do that then it is too look in the mirror for the real issue. You( so to speak). So instead of trying to spend your way to success, put the seat time in and improve your skills. Then spend 1,500.00 modifying your XR, DR, DRZ. It's so much more fun riding a bike that your sucking every last drop of performance out of, rather then fighting one you really don't have the skills or need for. See torture test mag for a prime example of this. He was handing KTM riders their asses on old pieces of crap. Difference is he knows how to ride.
You’re right, everyone is wishing for that magic new bike that no one will make. Lol. I have a new Drz400 and it takes everything I throw at it and still has more.
Waiting for the 390 Enduro R, I'll be the first on my block to have one! It will be heavier, but the engine longevity will significantly exceed anything they could do with the 500...its just too performance-oriented to be made into something with true DS longevity. That said I do believe the EXC-F's can last a long time when used mildly, but nothing like a more purpose-built DS engine based on a street/ADV engine.
My 2017 Husqvarna FX 450 I got slightly used with only 13 hrs. on it. previous owner made it street legal. I added larger clutch cover to hold more oil and a larger gas tank also a new smaller wheel set 19" front and 17" rear. I take it on eight day touring trips. I just found a gear kit to convert it to a 6 speed from 5. I've done this over a number of years as I can afford it.
I have a Husky 701, they are definitely not too heavy as you state. what's an extra 30kg's in the grand scheme of things. I throw mine around quite easily, through the bush, over jumps, over logs, the lot. The 690 and 701 literally have everything you want. Cush drive, extended service intervals etc...... you basically just made a video showing why the 690 and 701 were made.
Spot on, go with single motor option maybe a 430-480 to differentiate a bit from the 500, With the reduced power for increased service intervals I don't think the 350 would make sense anymore. Use the 500 crank stroke but reduce the bore a bit to keep the upper cylinder piston skirt wear forces down. A 40+hp high performance dual sport with reasonable service intervals would be killer. As a WR250R owner, I feel like there isn't an obvious upgrade. I'm mostly ok with the suspension, but the bike is heavy and as you gain experience could use some more power, both for fun and to be able to gear up 6th to bring the highway revs/noise/vibs down.
Bro, Why are you not chief engineer / product engineer / major shareholder/ shot caller for any one of these manufacturers? We’ll all be so much closer to having our unicorn! Seriously! Thanks n great work!
I like the idea of this proposed 500 EXC-D but it would simply turn it into another CRF 450L/RL and 20-30lbs heavier than the current 500 EXC-F. Don't get me wrong, who wouldn't want 3,000-5,000 mile OCI's on the 500, but I currently extend them to 1,000-1,250 as it is when used as a dual sport/light weight ADV bike. Lengthen the maintenance intervals, add a cush hub, give it a 3-4 gallon fuel tank and offer an optional factory rear rack like those form True North and Globetrottin and I think you will have done more than enough for the dual sport crowd.
You got most points but would also add these: - linkage rear, better variation to handle rocks and load - headlight that is better than a glow worm - better engine balance, the 500 is viby through the pegs - forks that work for anyone who is not a flea weight. If you are going to carry a bit of weight the xplor or 4CS are harsh rubbish. - 17 liter tank. Ims off the shelf. - seat concepts inspired seat. Rade fairing go on these quite nicely. Then to think completely outside the box, CB500x engine made dirt slim in this chassis, a true unicorn. (Ducks for cover).
Longer service intervals on a 500 Exc would really break new ground for dual sport bikes. Small 500 Exc improvements such as: Cush drive hub Better fuel and air filter Better adjustable kickstand Keep it low-tech (Larger tank is 15/17L) (LED headlights) That's all!
(a) "F" stands for 4-stroke in KTM, so it would be the DXC-F, not the EXC-D. (b) The EXCF has a cush-drive inside the clutch (c) reports are decent for tame-riding running 1k-2k mile oil change intervals (d) a metal luggage rack (like from Globetrottin) can provide some rear reinforcement for luggage.
Re oil changes apart from bringing the capacity up to 1.4 to 1.5 L the most important mod is to add a THIRD oil scrapper ring to the piston. It is only missing to help reduce friction a little because race bikes get an oil change anyway after every race, but that ALONE is the reason why carbon gets into the oil and destroys it quicker than a road bike. No need to reduce power on an adventure version of the 500, because the 690 actually makes very slightly more BHP (PER CC) than the 500 in reality (in reality, a standard 500 does NOT produce 60 BHP most produce around 52 BHP as standard where as a bog standard 690 DOES produce 74BHP so both are roughly in the same 100 BHP per litre output) and yet the 690 only has a very small oil capacity of 1.7 L which was actually LESS than the 2016 model 500 had (PER CC) at 1.5L. But despite this the 690 has 10,000 km oil changes. No it is the extra THIRD RING that would make all the difference, an easy mod and BTW if you look around you can buy replacement 3 ring pistons for sale.
Up to the 2016 500 EXC model (2012-2016) the oil capacity IS actually 1.5 liters…I have a 2012 model. They also have a kickstarter which the newer ones don’t. They are also without the emissions crap of the newer models and are close to 60hp on the crank 50-52 rwhp which, believe me, it’s plenty enough for a 113kg bike.
I have a KTM 350 excf Wess edition and it’s such an amazing bike I ride single trail most times but have been doing a lot of rode riding and it’s absolutely fantastic
A point you never touch on with dual sports which is their real weakness no matter how great the suspension, engine and everything else is on the bike is tyres hold them back. You see I have crf300l with every convievable extra, I have no doubt that I have reached the limit of what is possible with this bike while retaining the stock engine and chasis. Yet when I want to go off road for anything more than gravel and easy-ish single track I take my KX250X because no matter how good the crf300l is a dual sport with tyres like the MT21s is nowhere near as fun as a cross country race bike. So yeah the 500 exc-f is awesome but a road legal knobby is shit on the road and not as good off road as a good dirt tyre. Thats why a bike like a crf300l makes sense because its cheap and a super expensive ktm that is not as good as true off road bike, off road and only slighter better on gravel than a crf300l due to traction or lack there of is the KTMs achilles heal.
Hey man, thanks for the great content as usual! I was wondering, if all the rumored bikes where out, would your choice still be the crf300l? I've ridden my tiger900 rally pro quite hard offroad, but want a lighter machine for offloading. I feel satisfied with the touring I have under my belt for the coming years ahead :) the crf is my top contender for sure, but also curious about the 500 honda ktm/Norden 501 etc, thoughts? Cheers mate
Yep, I am taking the CRF300L without a doubt as it suits my riding best. These videos are theoretical, I have no horse in the race personally. I just like identifying gaps in the market and thinking through the possibilities. YMMV when it comes to what bike is best for you👍
Great bike but the engine vibration really ruin it as a dual-purpose bike. It is OK on dirt when you are standing up, but sit down and forget it. I had two of them and they were both the same. I now have a EXC350F and while it still has a lot of engine vibration, it is a fair bit better than the 500s were.
Had a 2019 excf. I didnt like the inability to turn off the traction control and the lean factor from the factory. And the hard seat. I know why it was all done, but those were my only minuscule complaints. Otherwise it was the best bike that ive ever owned. And ive owned about everything.
I've never owned a bike that I didn't have to customize to suit me. I've been riding my KTM 500exc for a couple years now and riding my Africa Twin for adventure stuff. I'm over hustling a 550 lbs pig off-road and converting my 500exc into my adv bike. Yes, everything negative you say about it is true, but not insurmountable. My first trip on it is coming up soon but shake down rides make me optimistic about it. I already like it better than my DRZ400. Basically, I see the bike as a clean state for you to build it into your perfect ride!
You just described the 450RL, and people aren’t buying them. The ergos aren’t set up for adventure… someone… Honda cough cough… needs to make a baby Africa Twin, or a real 450L… made ground up for adventure..
Hell yes!! Honda CRF450-500L Rally, lightweight Paris-Dakar lowtech Honda CRF500L and CRF650L Africa Twin, or a new really light offroad aggressive adv dualsport 500-550cc Transalp / Dominator. Based on designs from CRF450L, Africa Twin enduro sports or even better based on the Honda CB125X and CB125M concept bikes.
Could not agree more. My 500 slightly modded is perfect, way lignter than the 690. Could do a rally version with a gps mount, small screen, better seat.
I’m really torn between this bike and the KTM 690. I am 32. Raced motocross for most of my life, but right now my only bike is a GSXR 750. I want to sell it and get a dual sport. The 690 is awesome, but I’m starting to think I would like the lighter weight and more powerful 500.
The Goldilocks of Road Sports Bikes👌 I've quite owned quite a few Gixxer 750's & 1100's & still have the 1985 GSXr750 the Real OG of 'Modern' Sports Bikes! - If you want a Budget Allround Road Trail Enduro bike - Have a look into the Old KTM 525exc 'RFS' if you can find a Low Hr 525 you can't go wrong! They are very reliable & have Screw valve adjustment - Austrian Built & Heaps of Powa! 💪
I ride an 06 525 with simple engine mods, tuned lectron carb, and I make the current 500’s look like 350’s. I ride for fun and I’m happy with my older bike.
I honestly belive Yamaha will be the first. Now that they saw the demand for simple and affordable solutions and the sale success with the t7, it won't be long before they gives the market one wr450 dual and maybe- hopefully- an adventure/ rally replica. Until that happens, I ordered an AJP PR7 for winter raids. No more wasted money on companies that don't give me what I want.
A lightweight and not top heavy Yamaha Tenere 500-550 T5 and WR450-500R would be something. "No more wasted money on companies that don't give me what I want." - Tru that!!
@@chroniclesofsolid extremely honest bike. Very stable on the straights, but not very agile on tight trails. not a very powerful engine and you have to put some work into the suspension, but it's definitely worth the money.
As much as I like the idea, I don’t think there is enough demand for our unicorn dual-sport for manufacturers to put the R&D time into it. There’s not just the emissions rules and regs to get around, but also increasing safety refs like mandatory ABS (which has essentially killed the dual-sport market there in NZ). That’s why we’re seeing more small adventure bikes. They’ve got more mass appeal than a dual sport and the engine platforms are more multi use than a single from an enduro bike. Well, that’s my 2c at least.
'It was once already done, Husky 610 it just needed a start button. top speed was 109mph. More then needed. also had normally oil changes no rebuilding of the engine needed either. pulled hard all six gears.
Good, this KTM adv with marble block is made in my town, Carrara, all the scenes are from my place. As the topic you are right but I think KTM want to push the 690 for dual purpose. The only one they could make more long range I think could be a modified 500 even if next caming 390 family could feel the gap for them.
Check out Taco Moto Co. In the US they use top quality oil and then an oil filter that filters out particles down to 1 micron and their desert racers change oil at 30,40 even 50 hours and the oil is tested and at that point under those conditions it's well within the limits no damage to their bikes. That is a game changer. Also, you can increase oil capacity slightly I've heard but it takes a new Larger cap. I would say if you did all that 50-60 ++ hours should be possible especially if you aren't racing full bore through a desert...
My first bike was a Sur Ron and I absolutely loved it. I then got a WR250R. The WR is just so damn slow, off road it's fun but never quite scared me or made me giggle. But on long rides, it struggles. A YZ250, puts the smile on my face. But it isn't street legal and is almost kinda scary off road. It's also a bike that sits at home just waiting to be loaded into my truck and ridden. a KTM 500 could just be ridden. I'd probably load in my truck for some off road stuff. But many of my off road adventures are spur of the moment and just for fun. Yamaha: cmon now. Make a WR450R. Or WR500R. All I want is a fuel injected 450/500 that's fairly lightweight and street legal. And before someone says to just plate a YZ450FX, it's not legal where I live.
If I could get a KTM 350 or 500, give up a little in weight, and a little in power to gain longer service intervals, I would be all in. Maybe the market won't support it, the WR250R went by the wayside. I really liked my WR250R for what it was, except you had to rev the piss out of to make power.
Hay Chronicles as many of my audience have reminded me from our KTM500 build, and they've backed with comprehensive youtube videos, it does have a cush, it's in the clutch basket. Don't feel too bad, you're in good company, I didn't know either.
Thanks for the info mate will pin this up 👍
Yes but have it at the hub too wouldn't be a bad thing
@MAD TV @COS @Hadrian Haine
A new blank DS-canvas 2023. 690/701 Enduro are ace but bugger top/heavy. DS riders want WR450F, CR450L, 500 EXC, FE501 w. single cylinder engines + long service diary aka The Unicorn! Who will release it first? If not , let AI calculate and exhibit it at Eicma -22.
The dampers in the clutch are not even 10% of a cush drive and the stock ones wear out quikly. Every one replaces them with Recluse dampers which are more durable
cush drive shouldn't be needed if you are not supermotoing your 500. enduro tyres will lessen the stress very much
I own a 2021 KTM 500 exc. It have 511 hours and almost 21000km on the clock. Never had a problem with it. I change the oil every 30 hours and check the valve clearace every 100 hours. Never needed any adjustments and is still in specs. I use the bike on the farm and ocasional fun duros. Love it!
Wow! That’s a lot of ridding for 1 year! Thanks for the comment. My 2012 is a great bike. Bought it used and avoided the ridiculous new bike premium the KTM asks (a very rich guy paid for that and he maintained the bike perfectly up to the 180hr point when I got it). I’m going to take him for a ride today (not the previous owner…;) ).
you do oil changes every 30 hours?...... i do oil changes on my 2023 every 5 hours dude. the most i would ever ever ever push the bike is 15 hours before oil change
@@maximcorbett2430 5 hours? i can't even get back to the car and trailer in less than 10 , hahaha i am sorry but no bro, calling you on that one. no you don't
@@ogasi1798 yet I do 😂😂😂 I ride streets only too
@@maximcorbett2430that's super overkill for street use, but if you enjoy changing your oil more than riding then all power to you 😂
You don't have to modify anything to get that bike right now. Aaron Steinmann put 140,000 KM on his 500 EXC-F and didn't do the top end until 67,000 KM (my XR650L needed a top end at 25,000 KM) and changing the oil every 2000-2500 km, which is longer than the specified DRZ400 oil change interval. Valves on the 500 are legendarily stable, rarely ever requiring adjustment (my DRZ needs them just about every time I check them). KTM specs their service intervals for racing conditions. You DO NOT need to change the oil every 10 hours if you're just dual sporting.
As for the parts issue, sure. You're right on that. Hard to find parts for a higher performance, lower production machine than a DRZ or XR650L or DR650. That's a drawback, just like the electrical issues on a KTM vs the simple carburetion of the dinosaurs. For me, the performance is absolutely worth it.
drz400e oil change interval is 6000km for normal use half interval 3000km is recommended for extreme conditions. valve clearance inspection interval is 24,000km.
it's not normal for a drz to need any valve adjustment at all before 40,000km unless airfilter maintenance is extremely slack.
@@6226superhurricane oh you're right, the manual does call for longer oil changes. Literally everything I've read in owners forums online says 1000-1200 miles (1600-1900 km). Apparently it's the same issue as the KTM intervals but flipped- Suzuki's intervals are specced for if you're cruising on the road doing easy riding, but if you're doing harder riding you should change it more often. I know my oil is black as the ace of spades when I have pushed it past 2500+ km on the DRZ, so I stick with 1600 km. Also, like I said, I have yet to have to adjust the valves on either my KTM 530 or Husqvarna FE501S (KTM carried the top end from the 530 to the 500 motor almost unchanged because it was so good), where the DRZ has needed adjustment both checks (10,000 km apart).
This kinda puts a good light on the KTM factory intervals. I think they do themselves a disservice by only speccing for race conditions, because it creates this myth of an unreliable bike that you need to replace the motor on every 5 hours. If they would do as Suzuki does and give maintenance intervals for racing use AND for road use, I'm sure it would help their image. I can't imagine changing my oil every 6k I'm on either bike, just as I can't imagine changing the oil at 10 hours on either bike. For my use cases, neither would work.
Also, the 500 motor is SO unbelievably easy to work on. Checking the valves takes about 5 minutes and adjusting them would take maybe 15 more minutes, as you don't have to remove the cams. It's a SOHC motor and you just pull the rocker arms out the side of the head (two bolts) and then the shims are right there. Much easier than pulling the CCT, cam chain, cams, etc.
The DRZ is a great bike. I love mine and I'll keep it forever, but metallurgy and machine tolerances move forward, and the 500 is just such a gem of a bike. I am actively piling ADV and commuting miles onto my 530 just because it's such a delightful vehicle, way more fun than any of my big bikes. Yeah, I might be taking a hit in reliability compared to my XR650L or DRZ, I might risk being stranded with no parts available, but honestly, it's all about the risk acceptance. I don't see it as terribly risky based on my experience with the bikes, and I see the reward (being able to ride the greatest dual sport bikes ever) as totally worth the small risk. Meanwhile, almost everyone I know is afraid of motorcycling at all because they think it's horridly dangerous and scary and not worth it at all.
I'm not gonna let a little risk ruin my good mood as I wheelie my 60 hp bike into the sunset :)
@@aTuWitty lol
Well sir I’ve worked on as a fully qualified tech & owned Japanese bikes for over 40yrs the only way you destroy a top in premature is dirty air which gives you dirty oil quicker or over heating them which would have to be bad for that to happen . Are you sure you are using them for dual sport or single track mainly …. Yes I’m sure your KTM’s are fine machines but there is nothing wrong with the Japanese ones & I’m sure plenty would agree .
@@gregbrown5473 I never said there was anything wrong. What I'm saying is that the KTM 500 motor is extremely durable and the bad rap that KTMs got in the early 2000s is undeserved today. My XR650L air filter was always clean and serviced. The problem was that the motor got too hot (a regular issue on that bike) and broke down the oil. I fixed that with an aftermarket oil cooler. Japanese bikes are not perfect, nor are KTMs, but I would have no qualms about taking my KTM around the world tomorrow. They're a lot more reliable than you think.
I own a Husky FE 501 and would not change a thing. You can make this bike into whatever you like with a few minor mods and different tyres / gearing. Your wish list for a D version would probably add too much weight IMO and it would end up being closer to a 690. Cheers
Had a 501 for a short stint. Too much vibrations. I hated every second behind the bars. Must be a personal thing because most owners I spoke with don't mind
@@gxm164 Yes it’s a personal thing. I never noticed any vibes. Others do. Newer models a bit smoother than the older ones. It’s not great on the highway but ok for an hour or less. Then when you get to the bush it really shines. Cheers
@@gxm164 Supermoto youngsters install cush drive hub, flexbars ´n´ other riders install steering damper, rally tower on 501. Are the wheels balanced and steering+wheel bearings checked? For comparison, have you tried the CRF450L/RL?
I’m sporting a WR250R I’m hoping that since it’s been discontinued that they might come out with the unicorn 450, come on Yamaha! Thanks for the video your right though, that’s all everyone wants.
They just revamped the WR250 this year
A dual sport yz450f would be amazing, i really want them to do a ktm killer aswell big bore the yz250 to a yz300 or maybe even bigger (i'd love a yz500 personally haha) create a stator for it which can handle lighting and battery charging and reinforce the subframe a little. The lack of high out put stators is my biggest gripe with yz250's though i always buy them over an exc300 and even sold a 450exc to go back to my beloved yz250 come on yamaha give the people what we want i'd be happy if they just designed a better high outout stator and a larger case to fit it if necessary i wouldn't want the yz250 engine to be changed much if at all because it's absolutely amazing
Come on, Solid :) CRF300L with less than 8 liters od fuel weights 142kg. 701 Enduro with 13 lifers of fuel is 155kg. The bike you are talking about is 690/701 - 10k km service intervals, powerful single engine, reasonable electronics, good suspension. Wide range of modifications available.
But I absolutely would love to see CRF500L/Rally with 10k km service intervals and good suspension. I would be on the line to buy one.
Wet weight: KTM 690 350.0 lbs (158.8 kg) Husqvarna 701 344.2 lbs (156.1 kg) Way too heavy uphill gnarly single track. Bloody ripper- Would aslo buy a futuristic Paris-Dakar Honda CRF500+650L Rally or a modern XR aka Baja1000 racer based on the Honda concept bikes CB125X and Honda CB125M with a 500cc+650cc single cylinder engine. Flyweight, long service intervals and with single cylinder engines ツ
@@KevinDaken DR650SE from previous years that is still under warranty? Is the 2022 white Honda XR650L available in NZ? Honda CRF300L and CRF300L Rally. Some CRF300L riders install a smaller rally LED tower. Then there is the Kawasaki KLR650, Husqvarna 701 Enduro and KTM 690 Enduro R. A true dual sport: Suzuki DR-Z400E 2022 in stock! 400cc $9,995 + O.R.C
@@KevinDaken But all pre 2021 Suzie DR650 can be driven without any abs-mods right?
@@KevinDaken Eicma is just around the corner, but it doesn't look like there will be any lightweight 500cc-650cc with long service intervals. Base your next bike on how you ride e.g. 70/30 50/50 etc? The best advice is to test bikes at dealers. Don't know if Yamaha XT660Z Tenere Abs ever were sold in NZ. A new bike closest to DR650 with Abs would be:
Kwak KLR 650
KTM 690 Enduro
GAS GAS ES700 Enduro
Husqvarna 701 Enduro
I bought a new 2021 KTM 500 EXC-F off the showroom floor. In my experience the last 17 months everything you said is spot on. This was my first KTM, having previously owned a brand new 2008 Yamaha WR450 and several other pre-owned Japanese makes/models so the service interval and cost of maintenance / parts on the KTM was a shock, to say the least. I've done the few obvious mods / add-ons to all the bikes I own. For maintenance, though, I usually just left everything to my local mechanic, who was was better at it, had better resources available, and got the jobs done in about half the time it would have taken me. I ride a lot of miles here in the southern California desert so the short KTM service intervals are magnified. Sending the bike to someone every other week is no longer feasible, due to expense and scheduling. With the EXC-F I'm back to doing it myself, but on a platform that's less forgiving, with tighter tolerances, more expensive parts with lover availability, and a bit more difficulty in finding correct technical and procedural information for the bigger jobs. My opinion after about 1.5 years of owning my first KTM? It's test bike I've ever owned. I do wish it could go longer between service intervals, and a touch wider ratio between a couple gears would be great. Other than that, it's the perfect platform IMO.
Solid, Hate to burst yer bubble but it ain't happening, At all, by anybody. The T7 got made because Yamaha had the motor already. KTM has the motor(s) kinda but they are not in a position to modify them and expand the service network to make them viable. No talk of a 350-ish Yamaha because they don't have a motor that will work there and are not going to spend the money to develop one.
Why, you ask? Because the UK is stopping all ICE 125 and under in 2030, Aus has stopped the DR coming in, the EU standards are expensive and as you noted kill the power you need. It's all part of the 'great reset'. Keep what you have and or get the one in production now that will serve cause they are all going away sooner than you think.
Some will say I'm just spouting doom and gloom. I say it's simple observation of what is already happening.
You'll own nothing and be happy
I would love to disagree and debate this... but I can't. Unfortunately, I think you are spot on.
Buy a good 2nd hand exc for around $10,000+, which is the same price as a CRF300 Rally and then add on the extras you mentioned. You are nowhere near $20,000. You know about rtwPaul so do your homework. He just had his bike serviced in Mattighofen by KTM, with 800 hrs/50,000 km and the mechanic told him to wait another 250 hrs then it will need a top end ie. that will be 1,050 hrs/65,000km. And that is with oil changes at 2-3,000 km. I built my own rear rack and pannier frame and I can carry 25 kg and in any case, many people are using throw over systems so there are no subframe issues.
For the cost of your recent suspension mods, you could buy a Hahn Cush drive wheel and 15/20 l tank for a 500 and also get excellent traction control as standard. Wishing is not going to bring out this bike, do it yourself. And kiss goodbye to the 490 Adventure, KTM made it clear to rtwPaul it’s not going to happen. Waiting for the KTM haters.
Trust me KTM knows exactly what they are doing they want there to be aftermarket manufacturers to keep the sport alive and give the user a choice to personalize there bike the way they want it everything thing you said can be bought aftermarket and that's exactly what ktm wanted to keep this sport strong.
i think suzuki is in the best position to build this bike, their main priority has always been reliability, their range is due for an update. the 400e already makes 40hp at the wheel it's already as light as it's japanese 250-300 dual sport competitors.
they could get more power out of the 400 without losing it's bulletproof reliability, they can get better economy with efi, they can improve road manners with a wider ratio box, they can switch the ergos from race bike more towards comfort, they can shed a small amount of weight with new led lighting, instrument cluster, mirrors etc. can't expect too much weight loss without sacrificing reliability. the drz suspension is great as is and only needs to be stiffer . but i'm sure people that only care about looks would want usd forks which is a shame because you lose reliability.
so basically they could update the drz 250,400 and 650 and steal a big chunk of the market and maybe give the other japanese manufacturers the balls to dive into the market with better offerings.
Suzuki is not in the best position to build anything. Rumors are they are planning to stop producting motorcycles at all, apart from 110cc Asian market scooters. That's where they make 80% of their money.
SUZUKI no longer sells 400 drz and 650 dr since 2004 in EUROPE (updates with more complicated standards got the better of these models) so to say that SUZUKI is well placed to produce a dual sport motorcycle in 2023 does not seem to me realistic.
@@atprodT700 i didn't say they would. i said they are in the best position to, due to their current bikes decades old designs still ticking a lot of the boxes. out of all the japanese manufacturers they are the most likely though.
Yamaha WR450F with lower output, longer service intervals, rubber hub and blinkers would be nice.
Yamaha WR450-500R 😆
I love my Beta 500 RR-S. Bigger tank, DID Dirtstar cush drive wheels, Scotts dampner, Iso-vibe handlebar mounts, HDB handguards and Seat Concepts seat, Fastway kickstand, 4 LED headlight, resprung for 100 kg rider, etc. Amazing bike. Just dont ask how much I have in it!
Does it come with the cush hub?
Im in a similar boat with my fe501 husky. Loads spent on mods and I love it. Like the video is proving it would be great if they came more ready for this out of the factory ! Ok sine mods maybe be personal choice. But for sure a longer 6th gear a bigger oil capacity and a stronger subframe for starters 👍
Hey Solid, just throwing it out there.. Fun fact: The F in EXC-F is for Four stroke. The older EXC models were two strokes. The E is for Enduro, the X for Cross and the C for country. So the bike you're describing would probably be a ADS-F 500. Adventure Dual Sport Four stroke? Sounds a bit lame though.. Might as well be a vacuum cleaner 😂
Concepts bang on
Actually you're incorrect. EXC vernacular was also used on 4strokes way back, including in 520EXC, 525EXC, 530EXC, and modern 500EXC's, never was just a 2stroke thing. Same for the 250, 350, 400, 450 variants over time.
These points are why I chose a crf 300 rally. It would be nice to have more power on road. But adventure riding I usually have gear on the bike anyway. So weight is not a huge issue . And the 70mpg is great for the range. And at 6500 us. It was a bargain
Add more oil capacity = more weight
Make components stronger = more weight
Add subframe = more weight
Bigger fuel tank = more weight
Better seat = more weight
…..,.the list goes on
+ all of this costs more money .
People have been asking for the unicorn from the beginning of the time and manufacturers have looked in to this trust me .
People will not pay the price it’s simple as that and the dual sport bikes like the 690 are as close as you will ever come to what you want .
Improve your riding skills stop complaining about the bikes .
Why do you think that the Dual sport bikes are
“heavy “ ? Do you really think that the manufacturers want to waste expansive materials and parts just to upset you all ?
There is downside to ultra light weight machines like this , less material means less life , less oil means more oil changes it’s really that simple .
Good discussion, thank you. I'm currently putting together a 2023 500 EXC-F to be my Rally bike for the TET here in Spain and beyond. Yes, the service intervals as stated are crazy but from users like "RTWPaul" and others that have actually done oil analysis you can easily go 2000km+ on a quality synthetic oil/filter change. The bike here is €11,999 stock, adding a Rade Rally kit and an LED signal array, Acerbis 15L tank, Scotts Damper, bash plate, and Seat Concepts comfort seat adds another €2500 or so.
My big unanswered question is, where's the CRF 450 Rally?.
We’re going backwards here. The 450L is now discontinued in oz 😢
@@chroniclesofsolid my CRF450L feels like the closest thing to a unicorn, but being in the UK, did have to shell out for an aftermarket ECU. I rode motocross last weekend and did get some funny looks but performed great, and was able to ride it home :)
There must be some kind of corporate logic for not making the unicorn bike that millions of us want ?.
Fantic nearly did it but with its questionable Chinese motor, almost nonexistent dealer network & just being to fat around the middle I can't bring myself to go there.
@@max.fleming1045 Your hardcore question with obvious examples: underpowered and bad suspension Honda CRF300L/300L Rally and heavy/top heavy Tenere 700. Why don't they become the ultralight 500-550cc omni sports machines that generations of riders worldwide demand....
@@max.fleming1045 You mentioned the Fantic XEF 450 Rally. Kayo and CF Moto can make dual sport bikes. KOVE Colove GPX 450 Rally th-cam.com/users/shortss98A94DOnGY?feature=share
What about the crf rally? It is dual sport? Is nothing close to the 500 for performance but still dual sport.. ?
Bloody ripper! CRF450L/RL w. engine swap to single cylinder with long service intervals. But reckon China will probably be first...
i absolutely, 100% agree with you.
you have no idea how many times i've ranted to my friends about how KTM should make either a 550\500cc, 130kg wet weight version of the 690.
or just a light adv rally version of the 500.
which they can do by doing what you said, and using the 500 exc as the base for it.
because as you said they're within a bee's dick distance of it.
i would absolutely buy that damned bike within the first second i save up enough money for it.
100% agree
Spot on! Very interesting survey. There is already a "dualsport" model of the KTM 500 Exc on the American market, which is set up to be ridden more generally as a "dualsport". KTM could further develop the dualsport concept with longevity that you are into and sell it to more parts of the world. It would be the DRZ400S/XR650L of the future and completely dominate the market because there is nothing like it. In comparison, what would the KTM 490 Enduro R with the 450 twin engine from CF Moto weigh though?
Agree. Give us a properly street legal EXC 500 with the necessary changes for proper ADV
Technically mate the SWM RS 500 fitted with the Superduel screen , safari tank and Superduel wheels - for the rear rear Cush . Quite a few RS 500 owners have done ✅ this . And service intervals are in kms not hours . Parts for most bikes are not easy to get at present as well , and you don’t need to go to a dealer of that bike to service it . BUT I do agree that you cannot build say Yamaha or Honda for reliability and dealer support if you cannot do yourself.
For $16,000, I'll just buy another CRF300 to pull my first one around, and still have money left over for beer and petrol.
Seriously, comparing a 500 excf to a crf300?
You might as well compare it to a bicycle - then you wouldn't need the petrol and there's even more left over for the beer!
@@paulx4692 Okay, I'll just buy another WR450 to pull my first one around, and still have enough left over for beer.
Are you trying to say your 500 excf is 3X's faster in the woods? Jump 3X's higher? hop logs 3X's the size?.. Does it do ANYTHING 3X's better?
Or, it just needs 3X's the service, at 3X's the cost?
@@MOEMUGGY not if you buy used a properly maintained bike as I did with my 180h 2012 500 a few years ago. The bike is great, it has 1.5l oil capacity from the factory (up to 2016 models) and doesn’t have any of the emissions crap the newer bikes come with. It also has a kickstarter that the new ones don’t. Bought it for €5.5K or about $6k at the time.
@@C_R_O_M________ We're not talking about used, are we? And your decades old used KTM with more than half it's life gone that was probably abused and serviced by a knuckle-dragger, still cost as much as a new CRF300
@@MOEMUGGY wow! You got everything figured out don’t you! I know the “knuckle dragger” that was servicing the bike till new. He’s one of the best KTM authorized mechanics and dealers in Greece and if you want to compare the CRF300 with the EXC-500 be my guest but you’ll be comparing apples to watermelons. If you asked me only fools pay the premium full price when a very well used costs half that or less. BTW, even if my motor quits and it doesn’t seem to do so, $1500 buys me a new motor and I’ll be having a bike that runs circles around the 300CRF - which - BTW doesn’t fit me. It’s too small for me.
The only option I have found is to have two motorcycles. I have a 2017 KTM 1090R for fast pavement rides to easy off-road adventures, and a 2022 KTM 500 EXC-F for technical off-road riding. Both of my bikes have a Rekluse auto clutch, improved intake and exhaust, and KTM rally foot pegs. The 1090R is plenty fast and uses the factory ECU but the 500 has a Vortex ECU and air box reeds removed. Both have a Scott's steering damper for safer riding in sand and rocks. Part of riding motorcycles is designed each bike for your individual needs; to me that is an important part of the adventure. I see no need for an expensive car or truck, and would rather have two motorcycles the keep my ecstasy levels high as possible. I really enjoyed this video and completely agree with your perspective on KTM. I finally realized after nearly 60 years of riding motorcycles, it is my responsibility to build the bikes I want, no matter the cost. KTM simply designs and builds the best platform upon which to build my dream machines. Thanks for your channel!
D for Diesel?
KTM builds high performance bikes, I'd hate to see them dumb them down as it doesn't seem to fit their Motto! To me it seems a better build for kawasaki, suzuki, yamaha or honda as its a better fit. Great Video anyway!
I'd say ktm already make this bike in the 690 enduro. A bit heavier, yeah, but nothing outlandish for a dual sport.
I have a 701 and recently my mate on an exc500 and I both dropped our loaded bikes on a loose steep climb. He picked the exc up and rode off. I struggled for 20 minutes with the extra weight
It's obviously still too heavy, otherwise people wouldn't build the 500 to a adventure bike
You also need a larger battery and a significantly larger alternator - both of which add significant weight.
Lithium/LED?
I've built my own exc adventure taking a lot of inspiration from rtw Paul and it is an amazing little machine. Sadly I don't think KTM or any other big manufacturer will do this anytime soon because: A. Emissions, B. Price and C. Demand. AJP is just about the closest but its a bit heavy and no real dealer network. Based on no evidence just a hunch maybe triumph might be the one to surprise us all..
Great video Solid. Whichever manufacturer builds that bike will have record sales numbers IMO. Honda came pretty close with the 450L. At this point I'd just be happy to see manufacturer's getting the seat and the tank right. Dual sport riders don't do laps around a race track with a jerry can sitting in the box of our pick up. If the KTM team is reading this comment section then here's the want list: 16L/4 gallon+ tank mounted as low as possible, see Fisher seats for seat shape, optional kick starter? If designing a new subframe allow room for passenger pegs, tabs or threaded holes for saddlebag/rack attachments, doesn't need a rally tower but a small windscreen would be great. Stator that can run heated grips, a vest and charge a phone at the same time. Wet weight under 325lbs/145kg. Performance dual sport suspension but a seat height no higher than 36"/91.4cm. Priced like a T7.
Cheers Mike
I totally agree on this video. I have the husky FE501 2020 and trust me here in NZ I need road mileage as well as grade 5 lightness to get me around. A longer 6th gear would be awesome. So you could maybe reduce the rear to a 49 . I use 14 -50. Awesome off road but not really good for clocking 100kms. I have ran 48 rear and found it somewhat better and manageable off road. I’d say 49 is a great happy medium. But not for the road mileage at all. So now I’m using my bike for two seperate occasions! Cush hub and 14-45 seems pretty sound for road kms. But I wouldn’t entertain grade 5 especially some of those high country valley river crossings and steep gnarly hill climbs ! NO way. But fine for those grade 3 tracks! And longer 6-7 day country tours! Waiting now from nomad adv in Europe to send me the extended oil capacity side casing (300ml) it’s piece of mind.
Obviously like any rider that does some miles on the seat upgrades to seat concepts or goes and modifies the seat at a upholstery place. Fuel tank upgrade is obvious. There is so much more I’ve added to this bike to get it to do what I want/need. And it’s all because I love a lightweight adventure bike to get me deep into the mountains of NZ. Simply can’t afford to run two bikes ! Otherwise I’d maybe have the 701 For this reason. And yes there is so many more mods needed too many to mention! So conclusion is I have the evidence to know and agree with this video. 👍.
I think the 690 is close, but the seat height is still very high and it's on the heavy side.
My mind is blown by the rider on the KTM footage!
Wind protection, taller gearing while maintaining a low first ratio, slightly lower compression and different cam for good grunt work, extended sub frame and a slightly lower seat height with a more comfy seat.
Perfection!
Excellent ! Many thanks for this nice video ! You must send your CV to the KTM Mktg dpt...not sure to understand why they are not working on the model you describe.
How often do these need top end rebuilds?
Here here to the CRF 450 Rally.
I can do over 100 with my 2015 and I have a 14/49 when it came stock with a 14/48... Did they get slower??? Because in 6th, if I'm only doing 60 I need to downshift to have ANY sort of power 🤔
That would be brilliant. One thing I would pay for are titanium threads for the oil drains/filter. I use a torque wrench and still have had three go. The aluminum is just far too weak for so many oil changes. Particularly on used bikes, I figure the previous owner must have weakened them.
I have a KTM 500EXC-F 6 Days and the KTM 1290 SAR, both epic bikes.
KTM have the DAKAR ready 450cc replica, why add another bike?
anything wrong with the 690R?
Way too top heavy and heavy weight for offroad uphills and gnarly single tracks. Wet weight: KTM 690 350.0 lbs (158.8 kg) Husqvarna 701 344.2 lbs (156.1 kg). The 690/701 and ES700 are based on a modard/supermoto. KTM 500 Exc and Honda CRF450L/RL are the closest travel enduros and serious dual sport bikes, the lack of long service intervals means that many do not choose these. Honda CRF300L/300L Rally and Yamaha Tenere 700 should become lightweight 500cc omni sports machines.
I own a Honda 450 L and a Husq EF501 S. Unfortunately with the exception of more oil all you are suggesting is a KTK 450L. The biggest advantage that the KTM EXC and FES have over the L is weight and all you are doing is add weight with your suggestions.
CCM GP 450 was almost perfect but I did not sell enough why ?
10000% correct - no one really offers a 500cc long rage intervals!!!
You are speaking to me! I want something light that I can trailer to the ‘good stuff’, and then decide to explore any single track I see, whilst also being able to camp for a day or 2, or not, but have all my camping and tool gear just in case.
(1) buy what's on the market ... (2) ride it and be happy ... (3) after a 4 to 5 years, repeat steps (1) and (2)
Is the 500 EXC-F not road legal in 'Stralia?
hi. Enjoyed the video & it was very helpful as I’m currently saving $ towards a exc-f. However I wanted to do a supermoto build with it. Now I’m thinking what about the xcf-w? Or last is there a husky bike you could recommend more?
New or used aka already equipped? No WR450F (or YZ450FX?) Are you planning on installing flex handlebar and steering damper?
Cheers and agree with some points but if the guys just put a GET ecu on it...take away the hot/lean bottom end, resulting in more torque, most people would then rev it notably less as I do....less high revs, less wear. Yes to bigger oil capacity. Yes to heavy clutch-end plate that revoves all vibration problems, as I have proven!! 15 years ago metals, bushings and bearings were not lasting well on ktms but now, I just dont think the internals wear that fast if doing casual dual sport riding. Ok, bring on a D
what do you think of the WR450F as a dual sport compared to this one? in NZ is road legal...
I agree with your list. I love my 350exc-f but what would't I give for KTM to include a 5lbs subframe part way down the rear fender for a tail luggage or to firm up that floppy mess.
500EXC for sure. Bigger tank, softer seat, another 500ml oil capacity, better subframe, small screen. Done.
And cush drive hub. Have you heard about the 500 Exc model that is sold in the USA apparently marketed as "dual sport", unlike the model in Europe and maybe more countries, which is more of an enduro version. In the USA the 500 Exc has lower compression, throttled differently and made to be driven more generally (dual sport)
Nicely argued and positively initiated a useful brainstorming on that topic, I'm one of those (probably many? ) in fever of a such a EXC D , thank you !
A budget friendly ktm 450 rally replica would be sweet . Say 25k -30k instead off 50k 🙏 also the ajp pr7 looks to be a good thing
A Rally lite would be awesome! Some wind protection, Cush drive, 4 gallons of gas, 6th overdrive, and a little beefier subframe
ktm 690r? is a good dual sport?
Hey Solid, loving the content, not available here in Australia but what about the Husqvarna 501s?
I have just built one. Not that hard and cheaper than a T7.
i would vote KTM , as i ride KTM and find it well made ready to go , sure its pricey ,but its really all we have left , as my 390 adventure is no where a duel sport bike , but i find my needs are not really met , as my true off road is my 2011 ktm 250 exc 2 banger , which is great off road but not so good on road . what do we do? any way i just get out and ride . at 63 time is running out .great channel cheers Steve/Geraldton
You are totally right.
It's a possibility that could and in our perspective should be made, but from the bean counting accountants at KTM it doesn't make as much sense. They are selling the 500exc why change it or make a sister bike for a market they believe they have already cornered with either their ex or adventure ranges.
One thing they would have to add is abs. Up until October 2021 the 500exc was the no1 choice here in Kiwi land followed by the drz for new light weight adv. But now they are no more they can not be plated. They are merely dirt bikes, untill they have abs. So the questions are once you add cush drive, more oil and fuel, and abs, what weight will we be at? Are we still closer to 500 exc than 690 Enduro?
500 and 690 are 90lbs apart. You can do a lot with 40lbs.
Seems drz400s with better suspension, weight reduction and fuel injection (for mpg) would be easier.
I think my 690 Enduro is really close to being perfect. If the first gear was lower and the sixth gear was a little bit taller it would be a unicorn bike. Especially now when I have a rally fairing on it
Thats how I feel about my 500. I find myself in 6th at 40mph alot but dont want to change the sprocketsand make 1st gear higher
@@eugenelane3291 At least the 500 has a low enough first gear 😅. It shouldn’t be mechanically impossible to offer a decent gearbox on a dual sport 🤷🏻♂️
I would love to see the market studies the various companies do, and see the reasoning behind the designs. The European companies seem easy to figure out, road legal competition machines. Good for them for that offering. I don't understand the Japanese offerings. All of them are a major compromise, with what looks like low cost being the driver. The CRF450L is too heavy for the price. Would a lighter 300 or 350 (25 to 35lbs knocked off) with quality suspension priced in the $6500 to $7500 not sell? The aftermarket would support the light adventure crowd, and it would not break the bank at that price point to add on. Good video and synopsis?
Agreed. Nobody is making what you're describing. The KTM "adventures" of any size are not right for my purposes. I'll stick with my XR650R probably forever as a result... and be smiling all the way!
You're spot on with this video. I refuse to service a bike like the KTM 500exc requires. And for the price it costs. Like your CRF300L, my Drz vs the KTM will comparatively almost never require valve adjustments. And will certainly never require a top end rebuild, given regular oil changes. And so if KTM 500 had a machine I didn't have to work on, I may would buy it.
But the KTM 500 is not worth the premium price to me given the service it requires.
I would consider a KTM 500 that requires no more service intervals than the DRZ.
Husky 501?
Nice Video 🔥
Thumbs up and keep it up!
Actually the 500EXCs have a “cush clutch” and is not in dire need of a cush drive (unless you start using it as a Supermoto with street tires and backing it into corners by abrupt downshifting) . Cush clutch means that there are rubber inserts in the clutch basket that cushion the forces coming from the drivetrain. Moreover the 2012-2016 batch had, from factory, a 1.5L oil capacity, they didn’t come with any emissions crap and also had a kickstarter for when your electric starter fails (you still need the battery charged as the bikes are FI). Bargains arise in the used market. I got my 2012 with 180hrs, bought it from a very rich guy who had multiple rides and maintained them all meticulously, for just €5.5K or about $6K two years ago. The bike is great.
Ferrari should build a mini-van. They're really missing the boat without this in their lineup, I know tons of people, including myself, that are looking for that performance oriented mini van (Unicorn) that no one seems make. Come on Ferrari!
Im hoping that purchasing a 2023 ktm 450xcfw with a bare bones street legal kit get's close to the ideal dual sport at least for my type of riding... around town, fire roads, mountain trails, etc.
While I think your idea makes some sense there's another way to look at this which everyone will hate me for.
I can't tell you how many hair scrambles and multi day dual sport events I competed in. I was always in the to top 25% of the pack or better. But I was also a mid 40's rider who smoked two packs a day and didn't work out. If I was younger and in better shape I'd be much closer still to the front of the pack.
What's funny is I did all this on a self modified 98 DR350. Yes, at the time a 10-14 year old heavy dual sport. I loved ripping past all the KTM'S.
You see, 80% of the riders out there, or more, aren't good enough to even push a DRZ400 to any where near its limits. They love blaming the bikes weight, old technology. It's much easier to do that then it is too look in the mirror for the real issue. You( so to speak).
So instead of trying to spend your way to success, put the seat time in and improve your skills. Then spend 1,500.00 modifying your XR, DR, DRZ. It's so much more fun riding a bike that your sucking every last drop of performance out of, rather then fighting one you really don't have the skills or need for.
See torture test mag for a prime example of this. He was handing KTM riders their asses on old pieces of crap. Difference is he knows how to ride.
You’re right, everyone is wishing for that magic new bike that no one will make. Lol. I have a new Drz400 and it takes everything I throw at it and still has more.
@@jimperry4420 Awesome, enjoy it.
Waiting for the 390 Enduro R, I'll be the first on my block to have one! It will be heavier, but the engine longevity will significantly exceed anything they could do with the 500...its just too performance-oriented to be made into something with true DS longevity. That said I do believe the EXC-F's can last a long time when used mildly, but nothing like a more purpose-built DS engine based on a street/ADV engine.
My 2017 Husqvarna FX 450 I got slightly used with only 13 hrs. on it. previous owner made it street legal. I added larger clutch cover to hold more oil and a larger gas tank also a new smaller wheel set 19" front and 17" rear. I take it on eight day touring trips. I just found a gear kit to convert it to a 6 speed from 5. I've done this over a number of years as I can afford it.
I have a Husky 701, they are definitely not too heavy as you state. what's an extra 30kg's in the grand scheme of things. I throw mine around quite easily, through the bush, over jumps, over logs, the lot. The 690 and 701 literally have everything you want. Cush drive, extended service intervals etc...... you basically just made a video showing why the 690 and 701 were made.
Spot on, go with single motor option maybe a 430-480 to differentiate a bit from the 500, With the reduced power for increased service intervals I don't think the 350 would make sense anymore. Use the 500 crank stroke but reduce the bore a bit to keep the upper cylinder piston skirt wear forces down. A 40+hp high performance dual sport with reasonable service intervals would be killer. As a WR250R owner, I feel like there isn't an obvious upgrade. I'm mostly ok with the suspension, but the bike is heavy and as you gain experience could use some more power, both for fun and to be able to gear up 6th to bring the highway revs/noise/vibs down.
Bro, Why are you not chief engineer / product engineer / major shareholder/ shot caller for any one of these manufacturers?
We’ll all be so much closer to having our unicorn!
Seriously!
Thanks n great work!
😆
I like the idea of this proposed 500 EXC-D but it would simply turn it into another CRF 450L/RL and 20-30lbs heavier than the current 500 EXC-F. Don't get me wrong, who wouldn't want 3,000-5,000 mile OCI's on the 500, but I currently extend them to 1,000-1,250 as it is when used as a dual sport/light weight ADV bike. Lengthen the maintenance intervals, add a cush hub, give it a 3-4 gallon fuel tank and offer an optional factory rear rack like those form True North and Globetrottin and I think you will have done more than enough for the dual sport crowd.
You got most points but would also add these:
- linkage rear, better variation to handle rocks and load
- headlight that is better than a glow worm
- better engine balance, the 500 is viby through the pegs
- forks that work for anyone who is not a flea weight. If you are going to carry a bit of weight the xplor or 4CS are harsh rubbish.
- 17 liter tank. Ims off the shelf.
- seat concepts inspired seat.
Rade fairing go on these quite nicely.
Then to think completely outside the box, CB500x engine made dirt slim in this chassis, a true unicorn. (Ducks for cover).
Great points 👍
The Husqvarna FE501S is the 500 EXC-F with a linkage and a few other changes.
Longer service intervals on a 500 Exc would really break new ground for dual sport bikes. Small 500 Exc improvements such as:
Cush drive hub
Better fuel and air filter
Better adjustable kickstand
Keep it low-tech
(Larger tank is 15/17L)
(LED headlights)
That's all!
Love the idea. And, I agree with your assessment on the 690. Thinking of selling mine in favor of the 500
(a) "F" stands for 4-stroke in KTM, so it would be the DXC-F, not the EXC-D. (b) The EXCF has a cush-drive inside the clutch (c) reports are decent for tame-riding running 1k-2k mile oil change intervals (d) a metal luggage rack (like from Globetrottin) can provide some rear reinforcement for luggage.
Re oil changes apart from bringing the capacity up to 1.4 to 1.5 L the most important mod is to add a THIRD oil scrapper ring to the piston. It is only missing to help reduce friction a little because race bikes get an oil change anyway after every race, but that ALONE is the reason why carbon gets into the oil and destroys it quicker than a road bike. No need to reduce power on an adventure version of the 500, because the 690 actually makes very slightly more BHP (PER CC) than the 500 in reality (in reality, a standard 500 does NOT produce 60 BHP most produce around 52 BHP as standard where as a bog standard 690 DOES produce 74BHP so both are roughly in the same 100 BHP per litre output) and yet the 690 only has a very small oil capacity of 1.7 L which was actually LESS than the 2016 model 500 had (PER CC) at 1.5L. But despite this the 690 has 10,000 km oil changes. No it is the extra THIRD RING that would make all the difference, an easy mod and BTW if you look around you can buy replacement 3 ring pistons for sale.
Up to the 2016 500 EXC model (2012-2016) the oil capacity IS actually 1.5 liters…I have a 2012 model. They also have a kickstarter which the newer ones don’t. They are also without the emissions crap of the newer models and are close to 60hp on the crank 50-52 rwhp which, believe me, it’s plenty enough for a 113kg bike.
I have a KTM 350 excf Wess edition and it’s such an amazing bike I ride single trail most times but have been doing a lot of rode riding and it’s absolutely fantastic
A point you never touch on with dual sports which is their real weakness no matter how great the suspension, engine and everything else is on the bike is tyres hold them back. You see I have crf300l with every convievable extra, I have no doubt that I have reached the limit of what is possible with this bike while retaining the stock engine and chasis. Yet when I want to go off road for anything more than gravel and easy-ish single track I take my KX250X because no matter how good the crf300l is a dual sport with tyres like the MT21s is nowhere near as fun as a cross country race bike. So yeah the 500 exc-f is awesome but a road legal knobby is shit on the road and not as good off road as a good dirt tyre. Thats why a bike like a crf300l makes sense because its cheap and a super expensive ktm that is not as good as true off road bike, off road and only slighter better on gravel than a crf300l due to traction or lack there of is the KTMs achilles heal.
Hey man, thanks for the great content as usual! I was wondering, if all the rumored bikes where out, would your choice still be the crf300l? I've ridden my tiger900 rally pro quite hard offroad, but want a lighter machine for offloading. I feel satisfied with the touring I have under my belt for the coming years ahead :) the crf is my top contender for sure, but also curious about the 500 honda ktm/Norden 501 etc, thoughts? Cheers mate
Yep, I am taking the CRF300L without a doubt as it suits my riding best. These videos are theoretical, I have no horse in the race personally. I just like identifying gaps in the market and thinking through the possibilities. YMMV when it comes to what bike is best for you👍
Great bike but the engine vibration really ruin it as a dual-purpose bike. It is OK on dirt when you are standing up, but sit down and forget it. I had two of them and they were both the same. I now have a EXC350F and while it still has a lot of engine vibration, it is a fair bit better than the 500s were.
Had a 2019 excf. I didnt like the inability to turn off the traction control and the lean factor from the factory. And the hard seat. I know why it was all done, but those were my only minuscule complaints.
Otherwise it was the best bike that ive ever owned. And ive owned about everything.
I've never owned a bike that I didn't have to customize to suit me. I've been riding my KTM 500exc for a couple years now and riding my Africa Twin for adventure stuff. I'm over hustling a 550 lbs pig off-road and converting my 500exc into my adv bike. Yes, everything negative you say about it is true, but not insurmountable. My first trip on it is coming up soon but shake down rides make me optimistic about it. I already like it better than my DRZ400. Basically, I see the bike as a clean state for you to build it into your perfect ride!
You just described the 450RL, and people aren’t buying them. The ergos aren’t set up for adventure… someone… Honda cough cough… needs to make a baby Africa Twin, or a real 450L… made ground up for adventure..
Hell yes!! Honda CRF450-500L Rally, lightweight Paris-Dakar lowtech Honda CRF500L and CRF650L Africa Twin, or a new really light offroad aggressive adv dualsport 500-550cc Transalp / Dominator. Based on designs from CRF450L, Africa Twin enduro sports or even better based on the Honda CB125X and CB125M concept bikes.
Could not agree more. My 500 slightly modded is perfect, way lignter than the 690. Could do a rally version with a gps mount, small screen, better seat.
22 450rl love it. Totally bulletproof
No flame outs or stalling at low speed attacking gnarly single track uphill?
I’m really torn between this bike and the KTM 690. I am 32. Raced motocross for most of my life, but right now my only bike is a GSXR 750. I want to sell it and get a dual sport. The 690 is awesome, but I’m starting to think I would like the lighter weight and more powerful 500.
The Goldilocks of Road Sports Bikes👌 I've quite owned quite a few Gixxer 750's & 1100's & still have the 1985 GSXr750 the Real OG of 'Modern' Sports Bikes!
- If you want a Budget Allround Road Trail Enduro bike - Have a look into the Old KTM 525exc 'RFS' if you can find a Low Hr 525 you can't go wrong! They are very reliable & have Screw valve adjustment - Austrian Built & Heaps of Powa! 💪
They can ad the rally tower with the rolling book, just the plastics and screen. Slightly bigger tank and your mods. Perfect ds
I ride an 06 525 with simple engine mods, tuned lectron carb, and I make the current 500’s look like 350’s. I ride for fun and I’m happy with my older bike.
I honestly belive Yamaha will be the first.
Now that they saw the demand for simple and affordable solutions and the sale success with the t7, it won't be long before they gives the market one wr450 dual and maybe- hopefully- an adventure/ rally replica.
Until that happens, I ordered an AJP PR7 for winter raids.
No more wasted money on companies that don't give me what I want.
A lightweight and not top heavy Yamaha Tenere 500-550 T5 and WR450-500R would be something.
"No more wasted money on companies that don't give me what I want." - Tru that!!
How have you found the PR7?
@@chroniclesofsolid extremely honest bike.
Very stable on the straights, but not very agile on tight trails.
not a very powerful engine and you have to put some work into the suspension, but it's definitely worth the money.
As much as I like the idea, I don’t think there is enough demand for our unicorn dual-sport for manufacturers to put the R&D time into it. There’s not just the emissions rules and regs to get around, but also increasing safety refs like mandatory ABS (which has essentially killed the dual-sport market there in NZ). That’s why we’re seeing more small adventure bikes. They’ve got more mass appeal than a dual sport and the engine platforms are more multi use than a single from an enduro bike.
Well, that’s my 2c at least.
'It was once already done, Husky 610 it just needed a start button. top speed was 109mph. More then needed. also had normally oil changes no rebuilding of the engine needed either. pulled hard all six gears.
Good, this KTM adv with marble block is made in my town, Carrara, all the scenes are from my place. As the topic you are right but I think KTM want to push the 690 for dual purpose. The only one they could make more long range I think could be a modified 500 even if next caming 390 family could feel the gap for them.
Check out Taco Moto Co. In the US they use top quality oil and then an oil filter that filters out particles down to 1 micron and their desert racers change oil at 30,40 even 50 hours and the oil is tested and at that point under those conditions it's well within the limits no damage to their bikes. That is a game changer. Also, you can increase oil capacity slightly I've heard but it takes a new Larger cap. I would say if you did all that 50-60 ++ hours should be possible especially if you aren't racing full bore through a desert...
My first bike was a Sur Ron and I absolutely loved it. I then got a WR250R. The WR is just so damn slow, off road it's fun but never quite scared me or made me giggle. But on long rides, it struggles. A YZ250, puts the smile on my face. But it isn't street legal and is almost kinda scary off road. It's also a bike that sits at home just waiting to be loaded into my truck and ridden.
a KTM 500 could just be ridden. I'd probably load in my truck for some off road stuff. But many of my off road adventures are spur of the moment and just for fun.
Yamaha: cmon now. Make a WR450R. Or WR500R. All I want is a fuel injected 450/500 that's fairly lightweight and street legal. And before someone says to just plate a YZ450FX, it's not legal where I live.
If I could get a KTM 350 or 500, give up a little in weight, and a little in power to gain longer service intervals, I would be all in. Maybe the market won't support it, the WR250R went by the wayside. I really liked my WR250R for what it was, except you had to rev the piss out of to make power.