I agree! Adult learners don't learn less well than kids, but we learn differently and in a completely different context. That in itself is a secret super power.
It's weird, isn't it? I can't even pinpoint the age at which the change happens (and I doubt it's the same age for everyone, and maybe some people stay "childlike" in their learning, and maybe some kids are prematurely "grown-up" in theirs etc etc)
I also agree. The process of assimilating information into the brain might perhaps be quicker in kids, hence the sponge analogy, but adults can pre-sift the info (based upon superpowers pointed out by Bill) and discard what they know they don't need, kids tend to just hoover the lot up, so they actually learn stuff that might not be relevant. I'm sensing the tortoise & hare fable......
Getting older (71), the number one thing I make sure of is that I enjoy every piano lesson, every piece I play, all of the time I spend. Sometimes this means I don't do everything the "best"way as defined by the most efficient and fastest way to get ahead, if it means I stop enjoying it. No joy, then I find reasons not to play. With joy I work really hard every day, and most importantly, however far I get with learning the piano I will always be able to say I didn't waste a single minute left of my life. You are right, we adults won't accept authority :) . I am sure learning scales is of great benefit, but for me, after learning a few, and getting both hands working together that was the end of it. I was not having any fun at all, until I put on a backing track and used scales to improvise over it. Even then, improvisation is still not my short term goal, and there are just too many rabbit holes to go down as you mentioned. So what is the goal that works for me and keeps me playing an hour a day average for the last 6 years? Quite simply I love hearing new and familiar tunes materialise however slowly and haltingly I read them. Every week I receive one or two carefully graded... new ones to add to my library, and every year I keep getting much better and faster at reading them. That's it for me, all I need :)
I am 71 also….we are not old..we are mature. We have such a vast knowledge of music that has been around over the many years, have you ever noticed that when you improvise you inevitably start playing something that sounds similar to songs you already know!
As an adult learner who has made tons of progress in recent years (I’m in several bands), this is spot on. I learn much better as an adult because I’ve become a student of how my brain’s learning process works. That plus discipline and remembering that it’s about the journey and not the destination are my superpowers.
Great video Bill! I've definitely found running through various piano exercises to be an almost meditative activity. I guess one other big difference between younger and older learners is the adult learners are much more likely to be learning for intrinsic rather than extrinsic reasons. I certainly didn't pay much attention at my music classes in school, but absolutely loving learning instruments as an adult.
You're welcome, Mick! Also.... bahhhh, I wish I'd thought of saying that both of those things! It's weird how intrinsic motivations actually change as an adult. E.g. for a while now I've been motivated to try to improve some challenging skills that I shunned as too difficult at school precisely because they're difficult: I find the wrestling with difficulty itself more rewarding than I did as a kid. None of which is to say I now have the patience of an angel or don't get frustated etc etc - just that the emotional reaction is different.
@@BillHilton Indeed! These days I'm more likely to take on challenging things as I know the rewarding feeling I'll have when I become competent with it. As opposed to the frustration I'd more likely be feeling if I was effectively being forced to do something difficult "just for the sake of it", at least that's how I probably felt as a kid! Also there's probably something to be said for the more "boring" exercises being something that's welcome in an adult's life (as a nice break from the usual adult stresses), where a younger person is more likely to want to more constant novelty (again, just thinking back to when I was a kid!).
@_mickmccarthy Absolutely - these days I’m likely to practise my scales when I need to calm down, which my 12-year-old self would have found completely baffling 😂
Merci, Bill. You said to go back to chapter 6 or 7 if there is a problem with chapter 8. Actually I went back to lesson 1 of my John Thompson book, and several times. And I finally started to sing along, and feel the rhythm. I've powered through the book again (!!) but am ready to tackle Book 2 with a fresh mental outlook. And I have your books and Piano Packs, and hope to really gain the most out of them. BTW be careful riding on the wrong side of the road.
I think adults can be too goal-oriented and impatient. That's been my challenge, to relax and enjoy. I do try to always play musically - even scales and arpeggios!
Three weeks ago, at 47, I picked up my flute that had been resting in its case for 20+ years. Since then, I'm shredding scales and arpeggios all over the place, for like 4 or 5 hours a day (sometimes more)! it's so rewarding, and I totally recognize myself in all your points :) Edit: I forgot to mention that I do about 90% these practices with a metronome! I'm loving what kids hate. I"m having the most fun when switching keys, I love going up/down a semi-tone or minor thirds (I blast a CM arpeggio and connect it with an AM then an F#M and a EbM and just switch between these 4, and then switch to the group Db, E, G, Bb, and the group D, F, Ab, B, and just randomly switch keys, blasting arpeggios and/or scales). What I find challenging is to "randomly" change key: play a scales arpeggio in any key and any mode, and then make your little "story" to go from one tonality to another one: Em, then I think oh let's do a II-V, so switch to A7, oh but what about a tritone subs, so yeah let's play Eb7 oh no rather Eaug, and let's not resolve and go a semitone up instead, so quick, what's the fingering for Fm7 again? oh yeah, so now Bh7, let's resolve it ... oh to what? oh yeah, EbMaj7, eh but I love going down minor thirds, CMaj7, AMaj7, F#Maj7, hey let's break the pattern, FMaj7, enough of major, Em7 why not? Bb7 why not? .... and I can go on like this for hours, playing triplets, or quarter notes. I fail every other bar, but I'm really getting better and better, and that's a priceless reward :) and then it's a lot of fun to make your little story to go from a tonality to another, and the scales/arpeggios/tonalities are like old friends: "Oh hello C#m".
No indeed - I’m aware that for many it’s not. I hope in the video I was careful enough to stress the “if you can” bit, because I’m all too aware that many people struggle with all three of the factors. Good luck with the keyboard and let me know how you get on/if you have any questions/need any guidance!
@@deelicious1610 No problem! I agonised over that whole section because I wanted to say _something_ but I was aware that it’s a subject a lot of people are very sensitive about, and with good reason…!
I started 20ish years old to play piano. Self taught. Playing whenever I find the time as I am actually a drummer. At this current moment I can say I can play most Chopin nocturnes decently which I learned throught synthesia and it took me ~9 years but I did stop and start a few times
Having “a” plan is an absolute because you can see weaknesses in the plan an improve it. If you don’t have a plan all you will be doing is just going around and around getting no where. Having no plan is a plan of failure.
One other advantage adults have is motivation. Adults practice because they want to learn the instrument whereas some kids have lessons only because their parents want them to, though the kids themselves would rather be doing something else. At the age of 57 I finally decided to have lessons. the first teacher I went to spoke to me as if I was a kid, I therefore ditched her and went to an elderley gentleman teacher who spoke to me like an adult. I learnt a lot with him.
This makes perfect sense to me and have often considered this idea myself.( Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part as an aspiring somewhat older student ) 👍🏽
No doubt you are a fine educator, Bill. I have already commited to an education path for the first year. I gots to know, It looks like you might iv been in a public allotment, garden. Do you ever toss some batteries in tgat little keyboard and pkay out in the garden by your lonesome? I was in in England in 70 and 71 and absolutely loved it. I'm 60 and just started myself. I love a delicious challenge. If you ever met my favorite ex-wife, you would understand.😅 My initial goal is fighting back against long-covid brain fog. And faint baby strokes. Nowvit us more about having some fun.
Morning - thanks for your interest! There are several adult beginners signed up at the basic tier, and I don't make any judgement about the level people are at, and indeed often post stuff that's beginner-friendly (assuming "beginner" means "early stage but past the absolute basics"). If you do want help with absolute basics, my free beginners' course right here on TH-cam could be a good starting point. Here's the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLpOuhygfD7QnP46wUgQudOySX_z2UOhXs.html --- re: kids' stuff, I don't really have any of that because I design everything with adult piano learners (and especially older adult piano learners) in mind. As such, if you want to support your children's learning, you'll probably find better teaching materials for them elsewhere. Give me a shout if you want any pointers on that!
Ich bin 73 und habe vor 2 Jahren ein Klavier gekauft und freu mich über jeden kleinen Fortschritt. 😊
Vielen Gluck.
This information is super encouraging. I'm grateful you compiled it this way. The editing of your video is also engaging and fun! 😊
Thank you - really glad you liked it!
I agree! Adult learners don't learn less well than kids, but we learn differently and in a completely different context. That in itself is a secret super power.
It's weird, isn't it? I can't even pinpoint the age at which the change happens (and I doubt it's the same age for everyone, and maybe some people stay "childlike" in their learning, and maybe some kids are prematurely "grown-up" in theirs etc etc)
I also agree. The process of assimilating information into the brain might perhaps be quicker in kids, hence the sponge analogy, but adults can pre-sift the info (based upon superpowers pointed out by Bill) and discard what they know they don't need, kids tend to just hoover the lot up, so they actually learn stuff that might not be relevant.
I'm sensing the tortoise & hare fable......
Getting older (71), the number one thing I make sure of is that I enjoy every piano lesson, every piece I play, all of the time I spend. Sometimes this means I don't do everything the "best"way as defined by the most efficient and fastest way to get ahead, if it means I stop enjoying it. No joy, then I find reasons not to play. With joy I work really hard every day, and most importantly, however far I get with learning the piano I will always be able to say I didn't waste a single minute left of my life. You are right, we adults won't accept authority :) . I am sure learning scales is of great benefit, but for me, after learning a few, and getting both hands working together that was the end of it. I was not having any fun at all, until I put on a backing track and used scales to improvise over it. Even then, improvisation is still not my short term goal, and there are just too many rabbit holes to go down as you mentioned. So what is the goal that works for me and keeps me playing an hour a day average for the last 6 years? Quite simply I love hearing new and familiar tunes materialise however slowly and haltingly I read them. Every week I receive one or two carefully graded... new ones to add to my library, and every year I keep getting much better and faster at reading them. That's it for me, all I need :)
I am 71 also….we are not old..we are mature. We have such a vast knowledge of music that has been around over the many years, have you ever noticed that when you improvise you inevitably start playing something that sounds similar to songs you already know!
Thanks Bill!! I just need to keep practicing.
You're welcome, Martin... and yes, so do I! 🤣
Bill is my teacher. I started lessons at 76. What he says is so true!
Thanks Donna - you were definitely one of the people I had in mind when I made this!
We have more exposure to music, thus an inbuilt repertoire. Dexterity is better developed. Hohum, the list goes on. I'm 75. It's fun.
As an adult learner who has made tons of progress in recent years (I’m in several bands), this is spot on. I learn much better as an adult because I’ve become a student of how my brain’s learning process works. That plus discipline and remembering that it’s about the journey and not the destination are my superpowers.
Great video Bill!
I've definitely found running through various piano exercises to be an almost meditative activity.
I guess one other big difference between younger and older learners is the adult learners are much more likely to be learning for intrinsic rather than extrinsic reasons. I certainly didn't pay much attention at my music classes in school, but absolutely loving learning instruments as an adult.
You're welcome, Mick! Also.... bahhhh, I wish I'd thought of saying that both of those things! It's weird how intrinsic motivations actually change as an adult. E.g. for a while now I've been motivated to try to improve some challenging skills that I shunned as too difficult at school precisely because they're difficult: I find the wrestling with difficulty itself more rewarding than I did as a kid. None of which is to say I now have the patience of an angel or don't get frustated etc etc - just that the emotional reaction is different.
@@BillHilton Indeed!
These days I'm more likely to take on challenging things as I know the rewarding feeling I'll have when I become competent with it. As opposed to the frustration I'd more likely be feeling if I was effectively being forced to do something difficult "just for the sake of it", at least that's how I probably felt as a kid!
Also there's probably something to be said for the more "boring" exercises being something that's welcome in an adult's life (as a nice break from the usual adult stresses), where a younger person is more likely to want to more constant novelty (again, just thinking back to when I was a kid!).
@_mickmccarthy Absolutely - these days I’m likely to practise my scales when I need to calm down, which my 12-year-old self would have found completely baffling 😂
Merci, Bill. You said to go back to chapter 6 or 7 if there is a problem with chapter 8. Actually I went back to lesson 1 of my John Thompson book, and several times. And I finally started to sing along, and feel the rhythm. I've powered through the book again (!!) but am ready to tackle Book 2 with a fresh mental outlook. And I have your books and Piano Packs, and hope to really gain the most out of them.
BTW be careful riding on the wrong side of the road.
Thanks Bill.
You're welcome Karen!
I think adults can be too goal-oriented and impatient. That's been my challenge, to relax and enjoy. I do try to always play musically - even scales and arpeggios!
Three weeks ago, at 47, I picked up my flute that had been resting in its case for 20+ years. Since then, I'm shredding scales and arpeggios all over the place, for like 4 or 5 hours a day (sometimes more)! it's so rewarding, and I totally recognize myself in all your points :)
Edit: I forgot to mention that I do about 90% these practices with a metronome! I'm loving what kids hate.
I"m having the most fun when switching keys, I love going up/down a semi-tone or minor thirds (I blast a CM arpeggio and connect it with an AM then an F#M and a EbM and just switch between these 4, and then switch to the group Db, E, G, Bb, and the group D, F, Ab, B, and just randomly switch keys, blasting arpeggios and/or scales).
What I find challenging is to "randomly" change key: play a scales arpeggio in any key and any mode, and then make your little "story" to go from one tonality to another one: Em, then I think oh let's do a II-V, so switch to A7, oh but what about a tritone subs, so yeah let's play Eb7 oh no rather Eaug, and let's not resolve and go a semitone up instead, so quick, what's the fingering for Fm7 again? oh yeah, so now Bh7, let's resolve it ... oh to what? oh yeah, EbMaj7, eh but I love going down minor thirds, CMaj7, AMaj7, F#Maj7, hey let's break the pattern, FMaj7, enough of major, Em7 why not? Bb7 why not? .... and I can go on like this for hours, playing triplets, or quarter notes. I fail every other bar, but I'm really getting better and better, and that's a priceless reward :) and then it's a lot of fun to make your little story to go from a tonality to another, and the scales/arpeggios/tonalities are like old friends: "Oh hello C#m".
Thank you sir for sharing ❤
Really helpful
You're really welcome!
Sleep is not in my control! 43 years of insomnia. Just bought a keyboard.
No indeed - I’m aware that for many it’s not. I hope in the video I was careful enough to stress the “if you can” bit, because I’m all too aware that many people struggle with all three of the factors. Good luck with the keyboard and let me know how you get on/if you have any questions/need any guidance!
Listened again and yes, you said for most people. I am touchy on the topic of sleep. Apologies!!
@@deelicious1610 No problem! I agonised over that whole section because I wanted to say _something_ but I was aware that it’s a subject a lot of people are very sensitive about, and with good reason…!
insomnia? try lifting weights for 2 hours every other day and go to failure each single set. Still got insomnia? I don't think so..
Worked for me at 2am this morning.
I would have labled #1 "Desire" however, I suppose determination still covers that.🤔🎶🎹Play On🎹🎶 Just for the joy.
I started 20ish years old to play piano. Self taught. Playing whenever I find the time as I am actually a drummer. At this current moment I can say I can play most Chopin nocturnes decently which I learned throught synthesia and it took me ~9 years but I did stop and start a few times
Having “a” plan is an absolute because you can see weaknesses in the plan an improve it. If you don’t have a plan all you will be doing is just going around and around getting no where. Having no plan is a plan of failure.
One other advantage adults have is motivation. Adults practice because they want to learn the instrument whereas some kids have lessons only because their parents want them to, though the kids themselves would rather be doing something else. At the age of 57 I finally decided to have lessons. the first teacher I went to spoke to me as if I was a kid, I therefore ditched her and went to an elderley gentleman teacher who spoke to me like an adult. I learnt a lot with him.
It's Bill!
I'm back! (Not that I've been away: just busy with other stuff 😁)
good stuff!
Thank you!
Grande Bill Hilton! Grazie
This makes perfect sense to me and have often considered this idea myself.( Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part as an aspiring somewhat older student ) 👍🏽
No doubt you are a fine educator, Bill. I have already commited to an education path for the first year.
I gots to know,
It looks like you might iv been in a public allotment, garden. Do you ever toss some batteries in tgat little keyboard and pkay out in the garden by your lonesome?
I was in in England in 70 and 71 and absolutely loved it.
I'm 60 and just started myself. I love a delicious challenge. If you ever met my favorite ex-wife, you would understand.😅
My initial goal is fighting back against long-covid brain fog. And faint baby strokes. Nowvit us more about having some fun.
Hi Bill. Do you have a Patreon tier for children/beginners? Thank you.
Morning - thanks for your interest! There are several adult beginners signed up at the basic tier, and I don't make any judgement about the level people are at, and indeed often post stuff that's beginner-friendly (assuming "beginner" means "early stage but past the absolute basics"). If you do want help with absolute basics, my free beginners' course right here on TH-cam could be a good starting point. Here's the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLpOuhygfD7QnP46wUgQudOySX_z2UOhXs.html --- re: kids' stuff, I don't really have any of that because I design everything with adult piano learners (and especially older adult piano learners) in mind. As such, if you want to support your children's learning, you'll probably find better teaching materials for them elsewhere. Give me a shout if you want any pointers on that!
The core of the problem for adults might begin with the inability to read sheet music 🎼🎶
That's exactly why I used synthesia it fixed the core problem. Now I can even teach other adults (kids too) to use synthesia
Amen.
Thank you!
The prices are all in pounds?