Absolutely wonderful, your part 1 explains all we need ! ...I just got lucky before watching your video....managed a good coticle shave out of blind luck ....yes , I finished on plain 💧water! From 5k, 8k synthetic on a 6/8 puma . I was lucky ....but your wonderful video confirmed my process 🎉.
FINALLY !! after messing about with my new coticule for weeks and convincing myself that I’d never get a comfortable edge from it, I tried your method and within a few minutes there it was, sticking just as you said it would . Tried a shave and Voila ! It was great 👍 Thanks Dr Matt
I just tried your sharpening technique under running water: IT WORKS!!! The shave I got is the best (I worked on coticole for about 5 minutes and then I did 60 strokes on rigid leather pad, without any compound); better of my Naniwa 12k and better of Crox 0.5 and 0.3 um. The most counterintuitive fact is that after the honing process on cuticole I can see tiny scrapes on the bevel, while the Naniwa 8k and 12k give a high luster. Nevertheless, the shave is much better with the cuticle (much more confortable and smooth). Thank you for sharing this awesome discovery, Dr. Matt . :)
I too was close to giving up on straight razors. I've spent a fortune on blade, stones etc but was still getting a better have from a mid-priced electric! I tried your non-slurry method and have noticed a huge improvement! This has motivated me to explore straight razor shaving once again. Thanks!
Amazing, I experienced that sticking effect on other hard natural hones (don't own a coti just yet) and had the completely wrong idea about what it was! That was thanks to some well known "gurus" out there, who have willingly, or unwillingly spread the misconception. You opened my eyes, hat's off to to you sir.
Used the recipe again last night on a razor. Perfect technique to get that coticule edge. Love how smooth and comfortable the coticule edges are. Great work Dr. Matt
I have been using coticules for over a year now. This is the finishing technique I keep coming back to and always works for me without fail. HOWEVER - you don't need to use different stones prior to this. If you divide your honing into a sharpening progression (using slurry with a half stroke technique and diluting gradually down to water) then strop, and then follow this technique you can get just as good results.
This video caught me at the perfect time I was about to sell my coticule after watching this and giving it another chance I got a pretty good shave off the edge from my coti I only expect to get better results with some more time on the stone this method works well I went from a 6k Arashyama to the coticule great video and very helpful.
Thank you very much Dr. Matt. This water running technique really really works. I had a couple of Coticules which I almost never use because I almost never got good results. After watching this video and honing a razor on one of my coticules with water running I got a very sharp edge. Thanks Dr. Matt, you are The Niels borg of Coticules since you like to analyze those edges almost at a molecular estructure.
While he received the noble prize of physicist, for his contributions to atomic structure, I think you should receive the nobel prize of honing for your contributions to honing on Coticules.
This is a fantastic coti technique. Gives great edges quickly. I finish on lather with a dozen very light passes, strop on linen and horse to achieve the best edges I've ever been able to produce even when I come off that pos Norton 8K. Thanks Dr Matt for all your research and for passing it on.
I discover sometimes ago that I like sharpening, so of course, I bought about 30 whetstones. :) And of course, I bought a coticule. I am not a razor user, I only sharpen knives. So I took my pocket knife out and tried the coticule. I made slurry and the result was that I manage to dull my pocket knife. So I said to myself what the f word? Did I forget to sharpen? I took the knife back to my favorite stone (a 4000 sulfur-based stone) and sharpen it again. Perfect finish. Tried again on the coticule (this time without a slurry) and again it dulls it. So I said to myself: "this is a bad stone" and throw it in my drawer. Today I saw your movie and I run and found my coticule. Took the same pocket knife and put it under running (dripping) water. 60 seconds down the road and the knife starts to stick to the stone. I said to myself, wow, I am on to something. Took the knife and without stropping try to shave the back of my hand and to my surprise, it was super sharp. Now I can buy myself a straight razor and try it on that too. :) I have liked your movie and subscribed to your channel. :)
unbelievable! I just tried this technique with my new coticule and it took me about 5 minutes under the water to get the sticky feeling. ...which I've never achieved before. ..and then I looked under the scope and all I saw was black! very few scratches, and a dead straight edge. I'm amazed, I realy am! you sir, dr matt, are the MAN!!!!!
ive been using the Norton 4/8k and finishing on a coticule under a faucet for quite a few years. only do a wtg pass on my shave and my face is smooth. thanks for the confirmation.
Discovered what you did Dr. Matt but I found out via the video featuring the the Ellipiticot method on website Coticule.be. From there I added the trailing edge method and have gotten some very comfortable shave edges. Also like you I was impressed with how fast a blade can gain a keen edge. Vintage blades take a little more work but I have taken some older blades and gotten a great edge. But anyone who watches and learns from your video will cut down the learning curve and the frustration that comes with using coticules. I wouldn't use anything else for finishing my blades. Great job!
Thanks Randy. I remember watching that video because I was curious as to what the ellipticot method was. I'm still not sure I know but that video starts out with him building a slurry on the stone tho.
Actually the idea of using circles was what impressed me and iit has become part of my "process" for using the stones. I also wanted to thank you for the previous videos on how to use a microscope for honing. Valuable stuff as I purchased the scope you mentioned and have used your vids as a guide to understanding the sharpness of my razors. Thanks again.
Excellent as always. Perhaps an additional variable being controlled is that the metal swarf is being removed as well. On a Japanese synthetic stone this gives a brighter finish, so perhaps minimizing the metal swarf content has a positive benefit as well. I gotta try this out!!
Great point Ken. I never thought about the swarf. It's possible it could have benefit but I think that by continually rinsing the slurry away and therefore it's TOXIC effect on the edge, it far outweighs any possible benefit from the swarf.
drmatt357 I guess I'm saying that in addition to removing the stone slurry that removing the metal swarf may have an ADDITIONAL benefit, ie that continual rinsing gets rid of the loose coticule particles AND metal swarf - both effects pulling in the same direction of causing less scratching.
Hi Matt, great video could you please give me some more explanations.. You had a first coticule, but seems as a last step you used a second one... Or was it another coticule with another razor ?? I did not understand what was going on... Seems your last coticule had a lot of fractures on it.. Isn't it disturbing the process, doesn't it leave scratches on the blade ??? Could you give me the exact name if the "pink" 5k stone your using and the diamond plate reference you use to flaten the 5k...do you have so good places to get great coticules (belgian coticule or are they other type of coticule your using)... Thaks for your answer Matt.
Chris Picking - They were 2 different stones and razors. I just did it twice for demonstration. The "fractures" you see are manganese lines, not cracks. Present in very fine coticules. The pink 5K is the Shapton Pro series. The diamond plate is an Atoma 400. I think the most reliable place to get coticules is from Jarrod at The Superior Shave.
Good stuff. I'm about to buy my first set of stones so I can learn to hone. I like smooth comfortable edges rather than super sharp (don't like feather blades) because of this, somebody said a coti would be the best finisher. Do you agree?
@DrMatt357 just honed my first razor. I looked at under a loupe and notice that the edge was rubbish in a couple of spots. So thought, crap 1K time. Then i remembered your advice, if it was sharp before, it doesn't need a bevel reset. So out came the 5K Naniwa, blunted the razor on the schist of my coticule (n08 bout) and set to work on the 5K with some circles and Xs. I didn't move from that until I could cut into a tomato with no pressure all along the blade. Moved to circles & x's on the coti, I didn't get much sticking but when I felt the blade was finished it was mirror-smooth under a loupe and was a pretty good comfortable shave! Might try and go for the sticky next time
You have a good memory Craig. Yes, that's true. Don't get hung up on the sticking thing, not all stones/razors will do it. If it is comfortable, you're Golden!
Rod Bell Exactly Rod! I explain the reasoning in the first video of the series. Here's a link that should take you right to that part: th-cam.com/video/AWO2TAfRGQM/w-d-xo.htmlm14s
drmatt357 I've always used a Coticule after a 4k Norton but used light slurry and finishing with just water. I'm going to try this after an 8k and see what happens
Doc, at 5:05 you start to do X strokes. I think it's important for guys to learn proper flipping technique right off the bat, so I'm gonna have to take you to task a bit here. You are flipping with your edge going toward the hone. You (and new guys should learn this right the first time) should be flipping the blade by keeping the spine of the razor ON THE HONE, and flipping the razor so that the blade arcs over the stationary spine, AWAY FROM the hone. This completely eliminates the possibility of your edge coming into contact with the hone during the flip. It isn't possible to see in your videos, but there is the possibility that some of your past (and potentially some of your future) honing problems stem from the fact that you can, as you lift the blade from the hone, round the edges off by using your flipping technique. I know that you have muscle memory for doing it this way now, but it's time to teach an old dog a new trick and break yourself of that habit. You might be rounding off your edge without even knowing it... I'm sure the first thought that went through your head was "nah, I'm not doing that, it's just fine." Well, it isn't fine, and new guys should not be seeing this as their introduction to flipping. At 5:32, you start to do some back honing strokes (not sure why, but you are). The flipping technique that you do while back honing is PERFECT! Do that ALL THE TIME. New guys, please watch the flipping technique at 5:32, and do that always.
Well, for someone who doesn't want to use his real name and the comment gets flagged as possible spam, I can still reply to a know it all. I've said in many comments that I do flip it it the wrong way. But you only hit the edge once. No, I don't round the edges from hitting the edge on the stone flipping it wrong (I have high level of magnification slides to prove it). Besides, this way, you don't scratch up the spine from continually rolling it.
@@drmatt357 So I came across as a know it all? Wasn't my intention. My apologies. Regardless, it is still important for new guys to learn correctly from the start. Sorry you're so bitter about some well-earned critique.
@@drmatt357 I think if you flip the wrong way the razor is positioned better in your hand and that ensures a more accurate stroke. So maybe in some ways it's better to flip the razor the way you do.
Thank’s for illustrative video. I have a Coticule no9 and don’t feel the stickiness you describe. Is the stone to hard maybe? Thx in advance for advise.
Jonathan Lewis - Jarrod at The Superior Shave. thesuperiorshave.com/397/product-category/straight-razors-acc/belgian-coticule-hones/rectangular-coticule-stones/
under the running water, should i do circles and x strokes till i feel the razor drag, then increase the water till it drags again? i was wondering the steps because i have a nice size coticule and i would like to increase its lifespan, and i notice that i can make a nice swarf on it but i have trouble honing in on a great edge. i just need to know the key things to notice and see so i can achieve an edge like that.
Yes Nick. When you feel it start to stick, turn the water up. You'll notice the stick get a little less for a few passes but then it comes right back. Lighten up the pressure and you'll feel the stick even more.
drmatt357 also do you feel that honing a razor that is of higher quality steel easier than lets say a cheaper razor? because i recently bought a gold dollar straight to learn from off of grim blades and it came to me honed, then i dulled the edge after a few shaves so i can use it to hone with. and it seems like i cannot get it to a perfect edge to slice the course hairs i have. i have heard from multiple people from blogs that if i had a better quality razor like a dovo or frederick raynolds i would have an easier time establishing an edge and keeping an edge.
Hello Dr. Matt! Im using a wedgey razor on a coticule: do wedge like razors stick less to the coticule when getting close to being done than do hollow razors? Thanks for your vids and tips on the topic!
Michael Chance No, those are manganese lines. If you see those on a coticule, get it. A friend loaned me this stone for the video. It may be the greatest coticule I've EVER used!
I wish I could get an edge like that matt. I can get it to the point were it gets slightly sticky on the coticule but that is as far I can go. never sharp enough to shave with.
TheBill9999 If it's sticking, that's as far as it will go. I think the problem is prior to the coticule. How is the edge before you put it on the coti? Will it pass the cherry tomato test?
drmatt357 Hi matt thanks for replying. I don't think the edge is that blunt but maybe it is. I will have to buy another stone what would you choose?. Also when I get my razor back from honing I only get about two-three shaves before its blunt again. It costs a fortune to keep sending off to be honed that's why I bought the coticule. would love to be able to get a smooth edge on it you make it look easy.
Hi Dr Matt. Really enjoyed your video's and, like you, I was struggling on the cotticule to get the edge to the point where I could get a comfortable shave and was ready to give up. I have carried out your process after setting the bevel on a Norton 4K, then moving to the 8K followed by your technique. I get the stick you describe and use blade only pressure from then on, but I can't get anywhere near your results on the hht. Any suggestions? Oh, I also have a small hand held microscope to monitor blade progression.
Hello Norbert, I'm glad you like the videos. I always strop the razor after honing before I do an HHT. I can rarely get it to pass that test without stropping on linen then leather.
Why use the 5k stone when you have a Belgium blue on the other side of your Coticule???? Slurry it if you need a 1k fixing stone or sue the same technique to get a 4-6k finish on the brown side?
Hi DrMatt, Thank you so much ..Your Coticule journey could be my own, I've bought and sold several without success but it"s not in my nature to give up. With this technique I have had my first smooth shave off a stone which has never yielded results, using slurry has always created edge chipping. One thing I do notice and it's not unique to Coticules is any sharpening technique that leaves a hazy bevel seems to reduce the "glide" of the blade on my skin, even cbn spray which leaves a wickedly sharp edge seems sticky compared to a shiny synthetic edge. Is this something you have encountered?
I agree with the hazy edge because if you look at that up close, there are more coarse scratches which could account for the drag. But I haven’t noticed that with a CBN edge but mine are mirror like from the spray.
Dr. Matt, Did i notice that you lead with the spine a couple times on the coticule? Is this helpful or necessary for the stone to bring the edge to a full cutting surface? I think this was the only time I have seen you do this.
If you give me a time marker I can tell you Bobby but I do that sometimes for a few finishing passes. I think I did it on my 3 minute sharpening video too. Thank you for stopping by. 👊🏻
How much does it have to stick? I came to the point where I feel slight resistance after almost 20 minutes of only X strokes (It started to stick a little bit after doing a few laps with soapy water). Bear in mind I honed it the day before using slurry (I only have a set of coticules) and wasn't satisfied with the shave. I'm honing a brand new DOVO Rassiermesser 25 (not shave ready I guess, I feel a bit of tug and pull during shaving).
Dorijan Pavlović - Not all razors or stones will stick. Sometimes, like you mentioned, you’ll only feel a little bit of drag. If it doesn’t stick within 30 passes, I would stop there and see how it shaves. I’ve seen on stones that if you do too much, the edge gets worse.
@@drmatt357 I had a pretty smooth shave already this morning, definitely an improvement comparing to the out of the box shave. Thank you very much for your tutorials and enthusiasm. I'm watching your maxing out your coticules video and considering buying an Arkansas stone for finishing and a nano cloth strop. The pictures you made after using a nano cloth are pretty impressive. Thanks again!
James Gentry - That’s a good progression and will get you great edges. If the razor already shaves but needs to be re-sharpened, just do the 8 then 12.
what grit diamond did u lap the coticule with before u started this? iv done this many times and still no where near as dark and less lines as ur scope pics. on my ardennes coticule select. still many many white scratches and sometimes the white edge line appears again.. iv tried this and everything NEXT to this w no luck for finish stage. and mine starts sticking immediately after circles.i dunno if that matters.i did have it far up there on jnats just wanted to try out my coticule from ardennes.but i am NOT gettin ur results at all.
Hey Dr. Matt, great tutorial! I have been thinking of getting a coticule for maintaining the edge of my straight and was a little put off knowing there was such a learning curve. You gave me the confidence to give this a shot. Your first step in the process uses a 5000 Shapton, I happen to have a 4000 Shapton. There shouldn't be that much difference should there? Best regards- Mike
I don’t lap the Coticules before using them. I mean at some point I did when I first got them but that can screw up the surface if you will. It exposes some of the larger spots of the garnets and can give you a rough edge. If you have to lap your coticule, you can use a diamond plate but then use your other stones on it to smooth it out. Then it will take at least half a dozen razors to get the edge smooth again. I think you get a bit of metal or swarf that builds up on the stone to smooth it out. Using this technique you put very little wear on the stone so it’s been years, nearly a decade since I’ve lapped my Coticules.
@@drmatt357 yea i meant whats last diamond or stone u flattened it with and or prep it with rt before using them to finish. thanks matt. i know some harder stones u must lap with a harder stone until u hold under light and get a mirror reflection on surface in order to prep them to finish on or take a junk razor and do it
@@jackhere4594- oh, OK. I lap them with a well worn 400 Atoma then I rub my 1K stone on it then 5 and 8 then I’ll rub it with another coticule or a coti slurry stone then a junk razor to build up a little metal on it.
@@drmatt357 yea both achieve same it sounds like. i just didnt realize coticules needed this such work to prep for finish stage.but i been workin with softer steels last 5 yrs. sooo many say theyre all different. and yea to a degree,old deep new more less garnets etc etc etc, but for this stage i bet u all coticules work same. just like ur pic at end shows VERY similar result on the bevel. iv also read some will use a stone chisel instead of junk razor.i just hadnt read this out of the million posts out here about coticules but this is very key with hard or soft steels
@@drmatt357 u woudnt believe this, i accidentally ran across guys doin a blind test. 2 razors, one finished on blue belgian one on coticule. they all picked the blue for best shave.
Nice! Do you think the water technic will work with other finishing stones? According to the logic behind your technic i think it would... Have you tried in other stones?
It will work on other stones but probably not for the same reason. Coticules are unique with their garnets. I know you absolutely need a slurry on Japanese natural stones as it facilitates edge refinement. I've done this water only technique on my Escher and I believe all the Arkansas stones are no slurry as well.
Sir; I must say that i tried this ( running water)while finishing with my naniwa 12k to see... And wow! The best naniwa edge i have... So dangerously sharp but yet smooth... HHT passed like a dream also! Thanks! Now to try on my other finishers!
Can you please tell us if the "stick" thing that shows you you're done, is that only on belgian coticule or is that a principle we can find on every finisher stones ???
Holly cow Matt! This is a great method and easy. I apply this to coticule and even hard jnat after 4/8K. I think my nakayama works even better than my coticule here. Have you tryed jnat with same technique?
MasterofPlay7 - what’s the appeal of the coticule or not using slurry? You can do this on JNATs but I don’t like to. Makes them too sharp for me. I finish on some slurry.
Hi Doc, I can tell my Naniwa waterstones aren't flat. How can I flatten them? I used a Naniwa flattening stond but it doesn't appear to be flat itself. I could get a DMT Dia-flat but they're pricey. Any more affordable options that give good results?
Absolutely wonderful, your part 1 explains all we need ! ...I just got lucky before watching your video....managed a good coticle shave out of blind luck ....yes , I finished on plain 💧water!
From 5k, 8k synthetic on a 6/8 puma . I was lucky ....but your wonderful video confirmed my process 🎉.
FINALLY !!
after messing about with my new coticule for weeks and convincing myself that I’d never get a comfortable edge from it, I tried your method and within a few minutes there it was, sticking just as you said it would .
Tried a shave and Voila ! It was great 👍
Thanks Dr Matt
Wilmer Green - Great to hear Will and glad you could benefit. No stone whispering, voodoo and “years of experience” BS!
I just tried your sharpening technique under running water: IT WORKS!!! The shave I got is the best (I worked on coticole for about 5 minutes and then I did 60 strokes on rigid leather pad, without any compound); better of my Naniwa 12k and better of Crox 0.5 and 0.3 um. The most counterintuitive fact is that after the honing process on cuticole I can see tiny scrapes on the bevel, while the Naniwa 8k and 12k give a high luster. Nevertheless, the shave is much better with the cuticle (much more confortable and smooth). Thank you for sharing this awesome discovery, Dr. Matt . :)
I too was close to giving up on straight razors. I've spent a fortune on blade, stones etc but was still getting a better have from a mid-priced electric! I tried your non-slurry method and have noticed a huge improvement! This has motivated me to explore straight razor shaving once again. Thanks!
Great! Glad you could put the content to work.
Amazing, I experienced that sticking effect on other hard natural hones (don't own a coti just yet) and had the completely wrong idea about what it was! That was thanks to some well known "gurus" out there, who have willingly, or unwillingly spread the misconception. You opened my eyes, hat's off to to you sir.
Used the recipe again last night on a razor. Perfect technique to get that coticule edge. Love how smooth and comfortable the coticule edges are. Great work Dr. Matt
Jeffrey Borrowman - Thanks Jeff. I knew I had to make the technique idiot proof so it would work for ME. 😜
I have been using coticules for over a year now. This is the finishing technique I keep coming back to and always works for me without fail. HOWEVER - you don't need to use different stones prior to this. If you divide your honing into a sharpening progression (using slurry with a half stroke technique and diluting gradually down to water) then strop, and then follow this technique you can get just as good results.
umm...
This video caught me at the perfect time I was about to sell my coticule after watching this and giving it another chance I got a pretty good shave off the edge from my coti I only expect to get better results with some more time on the stone this method works well I went from a 6k Arashyama to the coticule great video and very helpful.
I sure appreciate these videos. My Coticule just arrived the other day.
Good Luck!
Thank you very much Dr. Matt. This water running technique really really works. I had a couple of Coticules which I almost never use because I almost never got good results. After watching this video and honing a razor on one of my coticules with water running I got a very sharp edge. Thanks Dr. Matt, you are The Niels borg of Coticules since you like to analyze those edges almost at a molecular estructure.
I really was thinking about selling my Coticules.
Thanks Jesus. I had to look up Niels Bohr!😆
While he received the noble prize of physicist, for his contributions to atomic structure, I think you should receive the nobel prize of honing for your contributions to honing on Coticules.
This is a fantastic coti technique. Gives great edges quickly. I finish on lather with a dozen very light passes, strop on linen and horse to achieve the best edges I've ever been able to produce even when I come off that pos Norton 8K. Thanks Dr Matt for all your research and for passing it on.
Great to hear Peter! Glad it works for you.
I discover sometimes ago that I like sharpening, so of course, I bought about 30 whetstones. :) And of course, I bought a coticule. I am not a razor user, I only sharpen knives. So I took my pocket knife out and tried the coticule. I made slurry and the result was that I manage to dull my pocket knife. So I said to myself what the f word? Did I forget to sharpen? I took the knife back to my favorite stone (a 4000 sulfur-based stone) and sharpen it again. Perfect finish. Tried again on the coticule (this time without a slurry) and again it dulls it. So I said to myself: "this is a bad stone" and throw it in my drawer. Today I saw your movie and I run and found my coticule. Took the same pocket knife and put it under running (dripping) water. 60 seconds down the road and the knife starts to stick to the stone. I said to myself, wow, I am on to something. Took the knife and without stropping try to shave the back of my hand and to my surprise, it was super sharp. Now I can buy myself a straight razor and try it on that too. :) I have liked your movie and subscribed to your channel. :)
LOL! Great story Danny and thanks for stopping by.
unbelievable! I just tried this technique with my new coticule and it took me about 5 minutes under the water to get the sticky feeling. ...which I've never achieved before. ..and then I looked under the scope and all I saw was black! very few scratches, and a dead straight edge. I'm amazed, I realy am! you sir, dr matt, are the MAN!!!!!
+Straight Razor Revolution ! Nice! You'll have to let us know how it shaved but I'm sure it will perform as good as it looks.
+drmatt357 I absolutely will let you know once I test the edge. thanks again for doing the heavy lifting!
WOW !! going to give this a try. Great job Dr.Matt
ive been using the Norton 4/8k and finishing on a coticule under a faucet for quite a few years. only do a wtg pass on my shave and my face is smooth. thanks for the confirmation.
Great video. Added to my favorites.
Discovered what you did Dr. Matt but I found out via the video featuring the the Ellipiticot method on website Coticule.be. From there I added the trailing edge method and have gotten some very comfortable shave edges. Also like you I was impressed with how fast a blade can gain a keen edge. Vintage blades take a little more work but I have taken some older blades and gotten a great edge. But anyone who watches and learns from your video will cut down the learning curve and the frustration that comes with using coticules. I wouldn't use anything else for finishing my blades. Great job!
Thanks Randy.
I remember watching that video because I was curious as to what the ellipticot method was. I'm still not sure I know but that video starts out with him building a slurry on the stone tho.
Actually the idea of using circles was what impressed me and iit has become part of my "process" for using the stones. I also wanted to thank you for the previous videos on how to use a microscope for honing. Valuable stuff as I purchased the scope you mentioned and have used your vids as a guide to understanding the sharpness of my razors. Thanks again.
Excellent as always. Perhaps an additional variable being controlled is that the metal swarf is being removed as well. On a Japanese synthetic stone this gives a brighter finish, so perhaps minimizing the metal swarf content has a positive benefit as well. I gotta try this out!!
Great point Ken. I never thought about the swarf. It's possible it could have benefit but I think that by continually rinsing the slurry away and therefore it's TOXIC effect on the edge, it far outweighs any possible benefit from the swarf.
drmatt357 I guess I'm saying that in addition to removing the stone slurry that removing the metal swarf may have an ADDITIONAL benefit, ie that continual rinsing gets rid of the loose coticule particles AND metal swarf - both effects pulling in the same direction of causing less scratching.
Hi Matt, great video could you please give me some more explanations.. You had a first coticule, but seems as a last step you used a second one... Or was it another coticule with another razor ?? I did not understand what was going on... Seems your last coticule had a lot of fractures on it.. Isn't it disturbing the process, doesn't it leave scratches on the blade ??? Could you give me the exact name if the "pink" 5k stone your using and the diamond plate reference you use to flaten the 5k...do you have so good places to get great coticules (belgian coticule or are they other type of coticule your using)... Thaks for your answer Matt.
Chris Picking - They were 2 different stones and razors. I just did it twice for demonstration. The "fractures" you see are manganese lines, not cracks. Present in very fine coticules. The pink 5K is the Shapton Pro series. The diamond plate is an Atoma 400. I think the most reliable place to get coticules is from Jarrod at The Superior Shave.
Good stuff. I'm about to buy my first set of stones so I can learn to hone. I like smooth comfortable edges rather than super sharp (don't like feather blades) because of this, somebody said a coti would be the best finisher. Do you agree?
Yes, that's the reputation coticules have. Stones can vary but that's pretty much the case.
Haha I just emailed you!
@DrMatt357 just honed my first razor. I looked at under a loupe and notice that the edge was rubbish in a couple of spots. So thought, crap 1K time. Then i remembered your advice, if it was sharp before, it doesn't need a bevel reset. So out came the 5K Naniwa, blunted the razor on the schist of my coticule (n08 bout) and set to work on the 5K with some circles and Xs. I didn't move from that until I could cut into a tomato with no pressure all along the blade. Moved to circles & x's on the coti, I didn't get much sticking but when I felt the blade was finished it was mirror-smooth under a loupe and was a pretty good comfortable shave! Might try and go for the sticky next time
You have a good memory Craig. Yes, that's true. Don't get hung up on the sticking thing, not all stones/razors will do it. If it is comfortable, you're Golden!
Awesome! XD XD
You're the man, Matt!!
Very NICE :) Dr.!
such an awesome looking coti
Thank you Dr matt.cheers! -cam-
What is the running water doing? Removing Coticule self slurry? I have to try this!
Rod Bell Exactly Rod! I explain the reasoning in the first video of the series. Here's a link that should take you right to that part:
th-cam.com/video/AWO2TAfRGQM/w-d-xo.htmlm14s
drmatt357 I've always used a Coticule after a 4k Norton but used light slurry and finishing with just water. I'm going to try this after an 8k and see what happens
Thank you for sharing this information.
Doc, at 5:05 you start to do X strokes. I think it's important for guys to learn proper flipping technique right off the bat, so I'm gonna have to take you to task a bit here. You are flipping with your edge going toward the hone. You (and new guys should learn this right the first time) should be flipping the blade by keeping the spine of the razor ON THE HONE, and flipping the razor so that the blade arcs over the stationary spine, AWAY FROM the hone. This completely eliminates the possibility of your edge coming into contact with the hone during the flip.
It isn't possible to see in your videos, but there is the possibility that some of your past (and potentially some of your future) honing problems stem from the fact that you can, as you lift the blade from the hone, round the edges off by using your flipping technique. I know that you have muscle memory for doing it this way now, but it's time to teach an old dog a new trick and break yourself of that habit. You might be rounding off your edge without even knowing it... I'm sure the first thought that went through your head was "nah, I'm not doing that, it's just fine." Well, it isn't fine, and new guys should not be seeing this as their introduction to flipping.
At 5:32, you start to do some back honing strokes (not sure why, but you are). The flipping technique that you do while back honing is PERFECT! Do that ALL THE TIME. New guys, please watch the flipping technique at 5:32, and do that always.
Well, for someone who doesn't want to use his real name and the comment gets flagged as possible spam, I can still reply to a know it all.
I've said in many comments that I do flip it it the wrong way. But you only hit the edge once. No, I don't round the edges from hitting the edge on the stone flipping it wrong (I have high level of magnification slides to prove it). Besides, this way, you don't scratch up the spine from continually rolling it.
@@drmatt357 So I came across as a know it all? Wasn't my intention. My apologies. Regardless, it is still important for new guys to learn correctly from the start.
Sorry you're so bitter about some well-earned critique.
@@drmatt357 I think if you flip the wrong way the razor is positioned better in your hand and that ensures a more accurate stroke. So maybe in some ways it's better to flip the razor the way you do.
Thank’s for illustrative video. I have a Coticule no9 and don’t feel the stickiness you describe. Is the stone to hard maybe? Thx in advance for advise.
Not all stones or razors will get sticky. If it doesn't stick, try and keep the number of passes on the stone under 30.
@@drmatt357 thx drmatt, I’ll try that
Awesome drmatt where do you get the stones sir?
Jonathan Lewis - Jarrod at The Superior Shave. thesuperiorshave.com/397/product-category/straight-razors-acc/belgian-coticule-hones/rectangular-coticule-stones/
Im tryiing the slurry technique, to form the bavel, but is not working. So, I meed a 5k stone and tryiing your technique. I hope the best results
under the running water, should i do circles and x strokes till i feel the razor drag, then increase the water till it drags again? i was wondering the steps because i have a nice size coticule and i would like to increase its lifespan, and i notice that i can make a nice swarf on it but i have trouble honing in on a great edge. i just need to know the key things to notice and see so i can achieve an edge like that.
Yes Nick. When you feel it start to stick, turn the water up. You'll notice the stick get a little less for a few passes but then it comes right back. Lighten up the pressure and you'll feel the stick even more.
drmatt357 also do you feel that honing a razor that is of higher quality steel easier than lets say a cheaper razor? because i recently bought a gold dollar straight to learn from off of grim blades and it came to me honed, then i dulled the edge after a few shaves so i can use it to hone with. and it seems like i cannot get it to a perfect edge to slice the course hairs i have. i have heard from multiple people from blogs that if i had a better quality razor like a dovo or frederick raynolds i would have an easier time establishing an edge and keeping an edge.
3:55 what brand of that beautiful razor is that?
Agar Alpha - LOL. That’s a Gold Dollar. They’re $5 Chinese razors. I did pimp it out tho.
Hello Dr. Matt! Im using a wedgey razor on a coticule: do wedge like razors stick less to the coticule when getting close to being done than do hollow razors? Thanks for your vids and tips on the topic!
Or all razors or stones will stick when doing this so if you’re wedge is not, it’s OK. I would not go past 20-30 passes on the coticule tho.
@@drmatt357 Thanks for the quick reply! Ill keep that in mind on my next attempt.
Are those cracks in the coticle at 13:19 in the video?
Michael Chance No, those are manganese lines. If you see those on a coticule, get it. A friend loaned me this stone for the video. It may be the greatest coticule I've EVER used!
Don't you think you can avoid the slurry because you're using the Shapton 5000 before?
Yes exactly Nick! Now I just use my 8K to the coticule for resharpening all my razors.
Well, I call that cheating :D
@@NicksStuff - LOL! Yes, been accused of that before!
I wish I could get an edge like that matt. I can get it to the point were it gets slightly sticky on the coticule but that is as far I can go. never sharp enough to shave with.
TheBill9999 If it's sticking, that's as far as it will go. I think the problem is prior to the coticule. How is the edge before you put it on the coti? Will it pass the cherry tomato test?
drmatt357 Hi matt thanks for replying. I don't think the edge is that blunt but maybe it is. I will have to buy another stone what would you choose?. Also when I get my razor back from honing I only get about two-three shaves before its blunt again. It costs a fortune to keep sending off to be honed that's why I bought the coticule. would love to be able to get a smooth edge on it you make it look easy.
Email me. I'll get you going, promise!
Hi Dr Matt. Really enjoyed your video's and, like you, I was struggling on the cotticule to get the edge to the point where I could get a comfortable shave and was ready to give up. I have carried out your process after setting the bevel on a Norton 4K, then moving to the 8K followed by your technique. I get the stick you describe and use blade only pressure from then on, but I can't get anywhere near your results on the hht. Any suggestions? Oh, I also have a small hand held microscope to monitor blade progression.
Hello Norbert, I'm glad you like the videos. I always strop the razor after honing before I do an HHT. I can rarely get it to pass that test without stropping on linen then leather.
Why use the 5k stone when you have a Belgium blue on the other side of your Coticule???? Slurry it if you need a 1k fixing stone or sue the same technique to get a 4-6k finish on the brown side?
Hi DrMatt,
Thank you so much ..Your Coticule journey could be my own, I've bought and sold several without success but it"s not in my nature to give up. With this technique I have had my first smooth shave off a stone which has never yielded results, using slurry has always created edge chipping. One thing I do notice and it's not unique to Coticules is any sharpening technique that leaves a hazy bevel seems to reduce the "glide" of the blade on my skin, even cbn spray which leaves a wickedly sharp edge seems sticky compared to a shiny synthetic edge. Is this something you have encountered?
I agree with the hazy edge because if you look at that up close, there are more coarse scratches which could account for the drag. But I haven’t noticed that with a CBN edge but mine are mirror like from the spray.
Dr. Matt, Did i notice that you lead with the spine a couple times on the coticule? Is this helpful or necessary for the stone to bring the edge to a full cutting surface? I think this was the only time I have seen you do this.
If you give me a time marker I can tell you Bobby but I do that sometimes for a few finishing passes. I think I did it on my 3 minute sharpening video too.
Thank you for stopping by. 👊🏻
How much does it have to stick? I came to the point where I feel slight resistance after almost 20 minutes of only X strokes (It started to stick a little bit after doing a few laps with soapy water). Bear in mind I honed it the day before using slurry (I only have a set of coticules) and wasn't satisfied with the shave. I'm honing a brand new DOVO Rassiermesser 25 (not shave ready I guess, I feel a bit of tug and pull during shaving).
Dorijan Pavlović - Not all razors or stones will stick. Sometimes, like you mentioned, you’ll only feel a little bit of drag. If it doesn’t stick within 30 passes, I would stop there and see how it shaves. I’ve seen on stones that if you do too much, the edge gets worse.
@@drmatt357 I had a pretty smooth shave already this morning, definitely an improvement comparing to the out of the box shave. Thank you very much for your tutorials and enthusiasm. I'm watching your maxing out your coticules video and considering buying an Arkansas stone for finishing and a nano cloth strop. The pictures you made after using a nano cloth are pretty impressive. Thanks again!
Hey I have a king 1k, 6k, a shapton 8k, and a SS 12k. Will that do for my razor I'm yet to sharpen it but I'm dying to! Thanks Matt!
James Gentry - That’s a good progression and will get you great edges. If the razor already shaves but needs to be re-sharpened, just do the 8 then 12.
@@drmatt357 good deal I've been overloading on your videos and it's safe to say I'm obsessed! Haha thanks again!
Hello, this first stone you use, (pink) what is its brand and grit?
03:57 That’s a Shapton 5K.
What microscope do you use?
lenpal 97 A Veho 400
what grit diamond did u lap the coticule with before u started this? iv done this many times and still no where near as dark and less lines as ur scope pics. on my ardennes coticule select. still many many white scratches and sometimes the white edge line appears again.. iv tried this and everything NEXT to this w no luck for finish stage. and mine starts sticking immediately after circles.i dunno if that matters.i did have it far up there on jnats just wanted to try out my coticule from ardennes.but i am NOT gettin ur results at all.
Hey Dr. Matt, great tutorial! I have been thinking of getting a coticule for maintaining the edge of my straight and was a little put off knowing there was such a learning curve. You gave me the confidence to give this a shot. Your first step in the process uses a 5000 Shapton, I happen to have a 4000 Shapton. There shouldn't be that much difference should there? Best regards- Mike
what grit diamond did u lap the coticules with before u finished on them?
I don’t lap the Coticules before using them. I mean at some point I did when I first got them but that can screw up the surface if you will. It exposes some of the larger spots of the garnets and can give you a rough edge. If you have to lap your coticule, you can use a diamond plate but then use your other stones on it to smooth it out. Then it will take at least half a dozen razors to get the edge smooth again. I think you get a bit of metal or swarf that builds up on the stone to smooth it out.
Using this technique you put very little wear on the stone so it’s been years, nearly a decade since I’ve lapped my Coticules.
@@drmatt357 yea i meant whats last diamond or stone u flattened it with and or prep it with rt before using them to finish. thanks matt. i know some harder stones u must lap with a harder stone until u hold under light and get a mirror reflection on surface in order to prep them to finish on or take a junk razor and do it
@@jackhere4594- oh, OK. I lap them with a well worn 400 Atoma then I rub my 1K stone on it then 5 and 8 then I’ll rub it with another coticule or a coti slurry stone then a junk razor to build up a little metal on it.
@@drmatt357 yea both achieve same it sounds like. i just didnt realize coticules needed this such work to prep for finish stage.but i been workin with softer steels last 5 yrs. sooo many say theyre all different. and yea to a degree,old deep new more less garnets etc etc etc, but for this stage i bet u all coticules work same. just like ur pic at end shows VERY similar result on the bevel. iv also read some will use a stone chisel instead of junk razor.i just hadnt read this out of the million posts out here about coticules but this is very key with hard or soft steels
@@drmatt357 u woudnt believe this, i accidentally ran across guys doin a blind test. 2 razors, one finished on blue belgian one on coticule. they all picked the blue for best shave.
Wonderful!
Nice! Do you think the water technic will work with other finishing stones? According to the logic behind your technic i think it would... Have you tried in other stones?
It will work on other stones but probably not for the same reason. Coticules are unique with their garnets. I know you absolutely need a slurry on Japanese natural stones as it facilitates edge refinement. I've done this water only technique on my Escher and I believe all the Arkansas stones are no slurry as well.
Thank you for fast response! I must try on my esher! And the honing on the water seems cool! Must try that on all my stones :)
Sir;
I must say that i tried this ( running water)while finishing with my naniwa 12k to see... And wow! The best naniwa edge i have... So dangerously sharp but yet smooth... HHT passed like a dream also! Thanks! Now to try on my other finishers!
Hi Robert! you never gave me this information, I could have save a lot of time. Ia m just kidding, this method really works. Thanks to Dr. Matt.
Jesus Garcia hahaha! This technique is all dr matt my friend! It does work... ;)
Can you please tell us if the "stick" thing that shows you you're done, is that only on belgian coticule or is that a principle we can find on every finisher stones ???
Holly cow Matt! This is a great method and easy. I apply this to coticule and even hard jnat after 4/8K. I think my nakayama works even better than my coticule here. Have you tryed jnat with same technique?
Hi Dr Matt, would you recommend coticule for sharpening / honing kitchen knifes?
+roxenfors I've never used one but I don't see why you couldn't. I know they're used a lot for wood working tools.
I only have a Burger King Straw to measure the stream, is that OK?
Is that a Shapton Pro?
you can do the same thing on jnats, what's the appeal?
MasterofPlay7 - what’s the appeal of the coticule or not using slurry?
You can do this on JNATs but I don’t like to. Makes them too sharp for me. I finish on some slurry.
Hi Doc, I can tell my Naniwa waterstones aren't flat. How can I flatten them? I used a Naniwa flattening stond but it doesn't appear to be flat itself. I could get a DMT Dia-flat but they're pricey. Any more affordable options that give good results?
Yggdrasil42 - a $5 square of granite from Depot and a sheet of 400 grit WD sandpaper.
I`me on a water meter ,Dam` ill have to sell my coticule
Don't put it away, eat it ! !
Humanalien - ?
Complete illusion !