Quick note to add: When I say that Ian Flynn is a professional writer, what I mean is that HIS professional writing that I've seen impresses me. Just saying he's a professional writer alone isn't enough, as there are several "professional writers" that don't write very well. However, I don't believe that Ian is one of them
@@roderguzmen ??? I don't even understand what that means. Yes, we make mistakes and have to learn when we're 18, sure. But just because I'm almost 30 doesn't mean I know everything. NO ONE knows everything. I'm going to continue to screw up until I die. So if you're looking for a creator that's going to get everything right the first time, I'm afraid you're out of luck.
If the Sonic community doesn't want him, the Mega Man community gladly welcomes him back with open arms. His archie Mega Man comic was great and we get a chance to have Tempo back.
I mean hey like if they hate the sonic franchise then I guess thier a fake sonic fan if thier not greatful. I like me some sonic crossovers ,sonic games all of that. That's the part I like the most of as a kid.
@@lailaallen6285 I don't think Ian hates Sonic or Sonic fans. I think he's just sick of everyone gatekeeping him other stuff while also saying he's the WORST Sonic writer ever (He isn't and it's not close)
@@lailaallen6285 Oh no you're good, I guess I misunderstood you. But yeah, you're probably onto something. Seems people are hating on Flynn because it's popular. I've never understood it
@@njez7563 Honestly. I mean judge me if you must, but if they're gonna keep doing this, I'm gonna keep profiting off of it (I say making 0 dollars in ad revenue currently) 😭
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀 I dunno if you are subbed stickman, because Ive seen ya before but I don't wanna assume
Fr, I understand not liking IDW but acting like its SOLELY Ians fault just shows me you (general, not YOU specifically) dont know how the Comic book production process works. Editorial can be a story killer, especially with a licensed IP
No, I copied and pasted A response after I had a full conversation with everyone. Look, if you don't like me, just say so. And maybe, don't be in the comments bitching about me trying to save time???
@@TheHavokNetwork Simmer down Tiger ain’t nothin wrong with a lil Ctrl + C. Don’t get it twisted little man. And you know I think you owe me an apology after throwing that B word at me lil bro….
@@Willythebear2 A part of me thinks so as well because his talents are being wasted on the Sonic franchise with the amount of grifting that's being done
Ian Flynn deeply do care about the sonic series and yet. We still have to do with people that will still be disaster no matter what the man does. You try to Satisfy everyone, You satisfied no one
Right. It's why I feel Ian should just do what he thinks is best. He's a scapegoat for so many so no matter what he does, people will still hate on him. I for one plan to keep following what he's doing. Hell, I may even start reading the comics too
@@segacolor6046 No there's WAY worse Sonic media than Ian's stuff. Like do people forget the nonsense that is Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog? That show was a LITERAL drug trip
@ friend told me that a while ago. What I meant was. These people want Ian Flynn to write sonic stories for the games then when he does that now they want him gone.
Sonic has always had bad writing. it has also always had cringe people attacking and defending the franchise. Everyone else outside of the fandom just looks and laughs and moves on with their lives. The sorry state of the franchise and fanbase in 2024...
@@Agent_Ice0 Don't exactly agree with the franchise having bad writing all the time but I do agree that it seems this fanbase will be wrapped in drama from now until the end of time. It is what it is 👎🏾
@@TheHavokNetwork my point about the writing is that probably nothing from that franchise is really going to win any significant award for the story. Let's be honest. Sonic boom and Sonic frontiers aren't going to be up there with immortal works like the "lord of the rings.."it just ain't happening. Some of this has to do with the talent that they hire, and other parts have to do with the audiences they are going for and the constraints that are put on them. All these things affect the end product. As far as controversy goes. If people just ignored these individuals, they wouldn't get any attention and there wouldn't be a controversy. People can go complain online to Ian all they want. I doubt it's a significant portion of the Sonic fandom around the world. But if somebody wants to prove me wrong, feel free. You're bound to have someone happy people when you have a lot of different media that Sonic the hedgehog franchises on and a lot of it not really being connected. Especially when you have big differences between these things. Sat A.M. verses Sonic boom. They are completely different animals. And the shows generally don't have a whole lot to do with the video games. Sonic x might be the exception to this. And even then, they took liberties with that.
Oh for sure, i don't think it's Sonic Team's goal to be "as good" as Lord of the Rings. They have their audience and I don't think they plan on doing anything crazy. And I agree, ignorance is definitely bliss in this situation. The fandom is always going to be full of idiots, and that why I love pointing and laughing at em. Just wanna make a few others laugh in the process No piece of media is gonna make everyone happy. That's a given for sure. I don't even really care about people being "happy" with anything Ian or any other Sonic writer makes. Just don't say things that don't make sense like he's the worst Sonic writer ever 🙄
I disagree with the idea that sonic always has bad writing but everything is kinda true sega barely utilizes theirs characters, there is rarely any meaningful change unless it’s characters assassination and the it feels like sega only wants to appeal to kids and fanboys while everyone else can kick rocks😭
@giovonniiclayton That I also agree with. There is a lot of wasted potential when it comes to the Sonic series, especially recently. I guess that's why Frontiers was such a breath of fresh air since I personally found it pretty decent. It's not a perfect story and I think the way it was STRUCTURED was pretty awful with so many abrupt breaks between the narrative just to go back to collecting things, but hopefully that structure doesn't return
just journey'd through Shadow Generations. man I gotta tell you, this dude should NOT be the lead writer going forward. Like I've heard and said elsewhere. he's a phenomenal AMAZING "concept guy" he just can't actually write the phenomenal concepts he comes up with. The Metal Virus Arc as a concept? Fucking Peak 10/10. Metal Virus Execution? especially with characters like Shadow and how he loses in that story or forcing The Deadly Six to be the main final threat in the end? trash. actual garbage. his *complete insistence* on turning Amy into the same kind of character as Sally Acorn? Trash. EVERYTHING about Metal Sonic's Character and how he was handled in the Metal Virus storyline? bruh.... sensational. he's not the best Sonic Writer of all time by ANY means. But he definitely has a skill for attention to past and classic details that shouldn't be ignored. he's not a leader by any means and should not be the lead writer under any circumstances since to do that would require a great understanding of ALL the characters and not just a few. but the ideas and genius concepts he comes up with definitely means he deserves a place and to be included.
I respect this but cannot say this means anything to me at all since it has nothing to do with the story of this game. I'm not even done yet and I've enjoyed all the changes he's made to the story. And he doesn't have the final say on every aspect of what he writes. Whether it be the comics (which are irrelevant when it comes to this game) and the stories of Frontiers and Generations. I respect your opinion but I can't really use it towards the plot of this game and all and the rewriting he's done. Sorry.
And that's one thing that comforts me about this series. It stays away from injecting politics into its writing and there are so few franchises that stick to their guns on this. The day Sonic goes woke, I may just stop playing videogames
@@TheHavokNetwork if you're thinking Tangle and Whisper, sadly no. But there are characters named Nite the Owl and Don the Rooster that are officially a gay couple in the comic (also I hope it was obvious my original message was joking, I didn't want to come off sounding like an ass)
@@SillyTron_ I figured as much. I haven't heard of those characters though but it is still interesting 🤔 Leaves open more potential for relationships in the future
I don’t know what people on Twitter are bitching about. I like Ian Flynn’s writing. Unlike Pontac & Graff, he actually knows the Sonic lore, inside and out. However, I feel Ian Flynn teaming up with Shiro Maekawa in the writing room, would cook even more. Besides, a lot of these Ian Flynn haters on Twitter are probably Ken Penders fans.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 most likely. I've played pretty much every Sonic game out there and I know without a doubt that Ian is cooking and any help he can get from other great writers is welcomed as well. And yeah f*ck Ken Penders
To be fair. Ian wasn't the only writer for frontiers if you actually look at his idw stuff its kinda inconsistent even more so with archie. I mean you can't just ignore all that just because he wrote a a game you liked, you have to look at his sonic stuff as a whole and there are definitely some weak points, ian himself mentioned it that he can be way to on the nose with stuff especially with references and stuff. Hes a good sonic writer but hes not this god savior of sonic like everyone claims
@@reggielacey2235 I've never seen him as a god. No man is a god. There's only One, and He ain't down here. Secondly, I don't see why I have to read EVERYTHING he writes to appreciate him. If I'm a fan of something he's made, can't I then call myself a fan of his work? If you only watch the Marvel movies and not read the comics, are you then not able to call yourself a Marvel fan? I may not dabble in the comics myself, but I've heard plenty about the comics. From my viewers and from my friends - both of whom I trust. And there are elements they've shared that I enjoy (How certain characters are written, how come characters actually have nuance and don't worship the ground Sonic steps on like they do in the games, how certain hinted at relationships in the games actually get some attention in the comics, etc). If you believe his work is bad, or even mediocre, then that's your right and I respect that. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that you aren't allowed to disagree with me. That's stupid.
I would like to talk with you like this in the future, by the way. Nothing against you. If you drop a sub, maybe you can teach me more about the series in future vids 👌🏾
The biggest Ian Flynn hater I can think of, has to be JDFrank20. For one thing, that dude is obsessed with Amy, and he really believes that Ian Flynn hates said character, and is trying to make her less popular. Lol. I kid you not.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 I might have to look them up because I haven never heard of them. But it's insane that someone can possibly ruin Amy more than whoever wrote her during her "Ooh Sonic, have my babies" era. I'll need some proof of that
@@TheHavokNetwork First of all, Amy is too damn young for Sonic. He’s 15, and she’s 12. But it’s funny to watch him constantly reject her though. Lol. Just like in the Adventure Era. Oh, and another fun fact about JDFrank20, is that he does not like Shadow at all.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 I'm not gonna get into the semantics of SonAmy - I do believe in it but it's not life of death for me. And why the hell doesn't he like Shadow. I assume it has something to do with ShadAmy? I'm not exactly a fan of that ship either, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it
-_- Twitter is toxic as always but it’s weird you are defending the man while refusing to read his work (comics). Sonic comics are great as a whole, main reason I’m staying as a Sonic fan these days. But you go from “SONIC THE COMIC” and “ARCHIE SONIC” to the boring “IDW SONIC”, fans are right to feel cheated.
First of all, I do support him. I've played Frontiers and I've heard about him from my friends, who I trust. So I think I have the right to defend him even if I don't support EVERYTHING he does. Also, fans can "feel" betrayed if they want, but the bottom line is that his desires for work come before anything his fans want. That's just how business works. And maybe he just enjoys working on IDW more, who knows?
@@TheHavokNetwork Businesses can only be successful if there are those who enjoy the product to keep consuming more. Those that come back to consume are what you call “fans”. From what I can tell, they were mainly upset about Ian’s work in the comics, not Sonic Frontiers.
@@whaleping I only brought up Frontiers because you made it seem like I knew absolutely nothing about him but maybe I misunderstood you. And yes, I understand he needs to be willing to bend A LITTLE in order to keep people coming back to his work. Though it can get to a point where the fans don't actually know what's best, and in these examples I've shown, I believe that Ian is in the right to want the "fans" out of his ear so he can do his own thing. No "fan" should be the end all be all for what a creator does because then the actual HUMAN that's working on said product just becomes a machine that bends to every silly whim of those who tell him to write Sonic a certain way, only write for Sonic, and only write for certain instances while ignoring others all because someone called it "boring." I'm going to use the same logic that Matthasnocuts has used for me - that is SUBJECTIVE
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussion at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀 This has been fun, even if we don't exactly see eye to eye on this
I'm happy that you enjoy JJK. I never really liked Phantom Blood and that's why I stopped watching JoJo but I don't care much for anime to begin with and even then, I usually only watch them when they're no longer popular and I don't have to worry about hype, spoilers or my friends running their mouths about it 24/7
@@TheHavokNetwork I know right? I know you said you're never gonna read the comics but I don't get the hate. The writing is JUST as peak there. The second arc is a gat dang walking dead pastiche that somehow manages to be more serious and respectful to the source material than anything TMC ever cooked up.
@@OtioseFanatic Well maybe if enough of you guys convince me, I can consider giving it a read. Hell, Lanolin is trending on Twitter right now and apparently it's because people are happy that she's getting hurt all because she's a little nuanced and doesn't just suck Sonic's dick like LITERALLY every other Sonic character nowadays (I'm being hyperbolic, but it is MOST). Its a breath of fresh air and might get me to take a peek at the comics 🤔
@@TheHavokNetwork Lanolin has always been kind of a bitchy character (mostly because she's basically constantly having to babysit the crack addled children that are Sonic and Tangle so I get it) but the most recent arc she's being more of a stick in the mud than usual in noticably dumb ways. I'm still holding out hope though. Without spoilers, things are happening in the background with the side characters getting involved and it could very well be big.
@@OtioseFanatic Eh I don't really mind characters that are a little more on the coarser side if they have good reason to (Miguel O'Hara is an example of this as he's definitely kind of a prick sometimes but he usually has good reason to be). Plus it's nice to have characters that aren't all happy go lucky all the time (Sonic personally is one of my least favorite characters in the franchise, but again, I respect him as a character and what he represents). This definitely has me a bit intrigued though. Maybe I'll make a video on all the drama some time this week or next and ask how many of my viewers actually WANT me to cover the comics so definitely stick around if they interests you 😁
Saying that Sonic Colors or Forces have bad writing (which they have, don't get me wrong) but acting like every game before it had good writing is insane to me. Not saying you think that way or saying that but I wouldn't consider the writing before Colors to be that better either. Also, what's up with people acting like Baldy Macnoshair killed their family?? Sonic literally only said 3 times in the whole series and people act like that the only thing he said throughout the 2010s. The people who genuinely get upset over the joke are more annoying than the joke itself.
@@cerealguy9979 The joke is bad. That was the only point I was making. And I don't think Ian could make a joke as bad. People that talk about that joke being the WORST thing that happened to Sonic isn't my personal take. And there were several games that had better writing than Colors and Forces. Adventure 1 & 2 come to mind. If you disagree with that, then that's fine. But if you don't like the writing in those games, then yeah I guess Sonic has just never had good writing ever. 😮💨
Not trying to say you suck btw. I loved this video and the comment I wrote doesn't just apply to you. I just think this is weird, consider the writing in this whole franchise was shaky at best since, the very beginning.
@@TheHavokNetworkI agree that there are better written Sonic games than both Colors and Forces but I also think the bar is really low imo. While I am not a fan of SA2 story, at least I can appreciate the writers ambitions and I can definitely see that they tried to write a compelling story, even if it goes all over the place. To me, that's why I consider Unleashed to have the perfect fit in how a Sonic tone and story should be. It isn't as embarrassing comical, as Colors or LW but it's not also as try hard edgy wannabe as 06 or Shadow. As for Baldy Macnoshair, I also don't find it funny but for a stupid harmless joke like this, the hate is overblown, especially compared to the other problems the series has.
That's fair and I'm glad you were entertained. At the end of the day, that's my main objective. Well and these discussions, because I find them very fun
Oh yeah, the BMN joke isn't NEAR the worst thing ever. I think the only reason I personally don't like it is because they reused it in my least favorite Sonic game ever (Forces). So it just resonates with me more. But despite my disdain for Forces, I understand that there are games that are objectively worse and have objectively WORSE writing. I'd argue 06 is probably worse as a game even though it's one of my favorite games in the franchise.
@@TheHavokNetwork I only hate Ian for turning Fiona Fox into a remorseless villain that I feel no sympathy for, the fact he unintentionally caused people to ship Fiona with Scourge despite the fact their relationship is toxic and shallow as a puddle. Then there's how his later comics started to get more and more watered down compared to the depth and complexity they had before.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 I didn't know Ian had the rights to Fiona and Scourge. Could've sworn those characters belonged to Ken but I guess i might've been incorrect
@@samuelrodriguez9801 Ah I suppose that's fair. Yeah I hate when people write toxic relationships only when the fact that they're toxic is flat out lampshaded. And it happens quite a bit in stories and I prolly my eyes and lose a lot of interest when it happens. Like Sohei and Yayoi Dojima in Yakuza 2 or Sasuke and Sakura in Naruto Shippuden (I don't know how much better it gets in Boruto, I don't watch that show and don't plan to).
smh theses mfs can't even think their own opinions man, I'd bet whatever they all started ganging up on ian because of Pariah's video (which was good btw)
@@pixeiotto122 It was an amazing video actually and I liked it a ton. Though that's fair, I shouldn't be judging these fans and should instead be judging Ian for not making Surge into a h0mphobe. One day I'll have a good take, homie. But it won't be today 😊
@@pixeiotto122 Oh I thought you were lol. I did like the video but yeah once again, Ian is giving his opinions here and of course Sonic fans aren't letting him. It's almost like they don't practice what they preach 🤔
Ian is alright I don’t hate the dude or think he ruined everything but some of his writing decisions are objectively bad and poorly executed , I dislike the way he written sonic himself,instead of progressing some of the story arcs with good writing the story is progressed and dragged out because of characters stupidity, and he knows sega won’t allow him to kill off villains or get rid of them for too long so I don’t understand why he puts the heroes (mainly sonic) in positions where it’s the obvious and smartest choice knowing he can’t and instead of having the villains get away in smart clever ways instead the heroes just let them go or do something stupid that give the villains a unearned edge and this is a problem he can easily fix but he makes it worse when addressing it or he just doesn’t at all. I want to see Ian improve his writing idw was the first sonic comic I got into and I enjoyed the metal virus arc and some of the new characters but the problems I mentioned really drag the comics down for me that I lost interest and couldn’t tolerate it anymore it felt like a waste of time. Also sonic frontiers kinda mid the gameplay was alright and the story was lowkey trash nothing wrong if you like it tho
Can't really agree with the Frontiers thing. I don't see how the story was trash like at all and I may just have to really sit down and play the game again because I remember being pretty invested throughout and really enjoyed how the characters were written. Can't say much about IDW, but I'll have to take your word for it until I get to reading them myself. I'll see how bad Ian really is one of these days. I appreciate the discussion nonetheless though
@@TheHavokNetwork that’s fine me personally I hyper analyze stuff so I tend to be more judgmental with fiction but even then I have my “guilty pleasures” as people would say
@@giovonniiclayton I am the same way too. It's why I'm as open as I am to being challenged. I could definitely be wrong about this. I just need to find the time to really take in the story again. And I really appreciate this talk. Hopefully you stick around for when I do eventually take another look at Frontiers
To be fair, Ian literally went scorched earth with sega taking multiple characters and concepts that would have made for very interesting or cool plots, from what i understand, because they wanted him to rain in his wild storys a bit (he litteraly made charmy bee mentally inept through brain trama because the higher ups wanted charmy a kid like in the games), and the litteral day he found out his original contract was lost he copy righted all his characters, that he cant legally use himself because of there brandings, so sega couldn't use them.
@@undeadreborn4867 I'm not against him copyrighting his characters. They're his. Literally every writer does this. Second, while you could judge him for copyrighting his stuff in response for being told to chill, it's still his right and I don't see how that makes him the WORST writer in all of Sega. Because he doesn't want anyone else using his characters? He could've just stopped working on the comic or just ignored Sega and kept doing what he wanted. At least he's a good employee by listening to his higher-ups, even if he did protect his characters in the process. I dunno, I just don't feel that's enough to scapegoat him like that 😮💨
@TheHavokNetwork My issue isn't with the copyright of his character, but the concepts involving said characters. Echidna tribes, character parents, the name of the planet, etc. sage can't use ANY of that because of Ian. I don't approve of the hate of him working for Capcom to Wright megaman comics, like you said man's gotta eat, but I understand why the sonic community hates him since he's litterally cutting sega off from his characters, making characters with similar concepts, and playing out similar concepts he's used in there future works. Edit: have you heard of Shade the echidna, she's a character created by bioware for the sonic the dark brother hood rpg game, they cannot use her because flin has copyrighted the very concepts of other echidnas, if they are not knuckles, tecal, chef pachacamack, or a completely nameless random, sega can't use them or they risk the guy say "Give me royalties"
@@undeadreborn4867 Ian did that? I coulda swore Ken Penders did all that. If Ian Flynn did all of that, then I guess I kinda get it but that sounds kinda like what Penders did. You're telling me Ian went and did all those same things a second time?
@TheHavokNetwork Oh crap, that is a MASSIVE my bad, I got the two mixed up, I'm so used to Ken being the subject for these kinda of situations I went on auto pilot. no to my knowledge Ian has no blam in these regards and I have no idea why sonic fans are hating on him so much, Ken is the real jerk.
"sonic doesnt force sexuality like literally everything else?" not sure what you mean by 'force' but amy has been straight for sonic for over 30 years. rouge's entire aesthetic is built around her sexual appeal. its heavily implied that tangle and whisper are a lesbian couple. sexuality exists. i dont see why thats a bad thing.
@@WillowWytch69 Key word in my statement is "force." As in place it where it doesn't fit and hinders the story. Amy loving Sonic, Rouge having a large rack and Whisper and Tangle subtly having interest in each other isn't forced and doesn't hinder the stories they're in (Well the first one has actually been a little overbearing in some instances and that's an example of it being a bit forced since in a few entries, it's Amy's ENTIRE character.) An example of sexuality being forced in my opinion is in the Last of Us 2 and no, it's not any of the g@y portions (even though those aren't written well either) and it's not even Lev (again, not handled all that much better). It's the s3x scene randomly in the middle of the fight Abby and that other dude I can't remember the name of - because he literally just exists to create drama and die - were having. It was unnecessary, jarring, pace-breaking and went on for way too long. The Sonic series has never done something so awkward and random, and that was my ENTIRE point. Sexuality isn't the problem, and I've never believed that it was
Quick note to add: When I say that Ian Flynn is a professional writer, what I mean is that HIS professional writing that I've seen impresses me. Just saying he's a professional writer alone isn't enough, as there are several "professional writers" that don't write very well. However, I don't believe that Ian is one of them
Make up Ur god damn mind kid
@@roderguzmen Oh I forgot, humans aren't supposed to learn from their mistakes and call themselves out on screwing things up. My bad 🙃
@@TheHavokNetwork me when 18 yo goddamn
@@roderguzmen ??? I don't even understand what that means. Yes, we make mistakes and have to learn when we're 18, sure. But just because I'm almost 30 doesn't mean I know everything. NO ONE knows everything. I'm going to continue to screw up until I die. So if you're looking for a creator that's going to get everything right the first time, I'm afraid you're out of luck.
@@TheHavokNetwork you fucking seething dud, okay... i'm done
If the Sonic community doesn't want him, the Mega Man community gladly welcomes him back with open arms. His archie Mega Man comic was great and we get a chance to have Tempo back.
For sure, id be behind that as well. Especially if he's not being appreciated in the Sonic sphere. He should go where he's appreciated 🤟🏾
I mean hey like if they hate the sonic franchise then I guess thier a fake sonic fan if thier not greatful. I like me some sonic crossovers ,sonic games all of that. That's the part I like the most of as a kid.
@@lailaallen6285 I don't think Ian hates Sonic or Sonic fans. I think he's just sick of everyone gatekeeping him other stuff while also saying he's the WORST Sonic writer ever (He isn't and it's not close)
@TheHavokNetwork oh I ment the sonic fans my fault I probably write it wrong
@@lailaallen6285 Oh no you're good, I guess I misunderstood you. But yeah, you're probably onto something. Seems people are hating on Flynn because it's popular. I've never understood it
Sonic Fans hating something for a dumb reason, what else is new.
@@JetSuzuki not much honestly. I'm not surprised at all, this is just hilariously silly 😭😂
@TheHavokNetwork Yep.
They always need something to complain about
@@Crash_Bash89 It's as I said, they can't be satiated 🤣
I mean, Frontiers was nothing but a gallery of Family Guy cutaways by the hands of even more watered down versions of the characters we used to love.
Wow glad I dont use twitter seems like an army of drama queens over there
@@njez7563 Honestly. I mean judge me if you must, but if they're gonna keep doing this, I'm gonna keep profiting off of it (I say making 0 dollars in ad revenue currently) 😭
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀
show them a single picture of Ian Flynn and they'll start tweaking 😭
@@stickmanboiepic Like it's the effing BOOGEYMAN bro 😂
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀 I dunno if you are subbed stickman, because Ive seen ya before but I don't wanna assume
Fr, I understand not liking IDW but acting like its SOLELY Ians fault just shows me you (general, not YOU specifically) dont know how the Comic book production process works. Editorial can be a story killer, especially with a licensed IP
@@SHORYUKIN-SF6 Here here. I definitely agree. It's like I said, Ian just seems to be a scapegoat for these people and it makes me scratch my head
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Blud copying and pasting responses 🙏
No, I copied and pasted A response after I had a full conversation with everyone. Look, if you don't like me, just say so. And maybe, don't be in the comments bitching about me trying to save time???
@@TheHavokNetwork Simmer down Tiger ain’t nothin wrong with a lil Ctrl + C. Don’t get it twisted little man. And you know I think you owe me an apology after throwing that B word at me lil bro….
Ian Flynn should move on to Megaman I love Ian on Megaman
@@Willythebear2 A part of me thinks so as well because his talents are being wasted on the Sonic franchise with the amount of grifting that's being done
sonic fans when ian flynn breathes
@@Arcany For real lmao 🤣
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀
True
Megaman "Fans": Ian Flinn shouldnt be writting for megaman!
Megaman Fans:"The hell are you talking about? We just want a new game..."
That's fair enough. MegaMan fans deserve some kind of love, for sure
Also id appreciate it if you stuck around for more videos if you enjoyed this one 😀
Ian Flynn deeply do care about the sonic series and yet. We still have to do with people that will still be disaster no matter what the man does. You try to Satisfy everyone, You satisfied no one
Right. It's why I feel Ian should just do what he thinks is best. He's a scapegoat for so many so no matter what he does, people will still hate on him. I for one plan to keep following what he's doing. Hell, I may even start reading the comics too
You can always criticize someone’s writing that’s one thing but To make him out to be the villain for Writing sonic comics is another
It’s not even The worst sonic media out there
@@segacolor6046 Yeah. He's definitely not "the villain." Ken Penders was a damn villain lmao
@@segacolor6046 No there's WAY worse Sonic media than Ian's stuff. Like do people forget the nonsense that is Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog? That show was a LITERAL drug trip
Well all I have to say is this about sonic fans messing with Ian Flynn….
“They ride you UP, just to RIDE you down.”
@@STUBB-NATION Not sure what this is a reference to but it sure sounds familiar
@ friend told me that a while ago. What I meant was. These people want Ian Flynn to write sonic stories for the games then when he does that now they want him gone.
@ and that’s why I say sonic team should listen to the fans but NOT too much. At the end of the day they should do what they want
@@STUBB-NATION For sure. At the end of the day, Sega really should do what yields them positive results over all above all else
Sonic has always had bad writing. it has also always had cringe people attacking and defending the franchise. Everyone else outside of the fandom just looks and laughs and moves on with their lives. The sorry state of the franchise and fanbase in 2024...
@@Agent_Ice0 Don't exactly agree with the franchise having bad writing all the time but I do agree that it seems this fanbase will be wrapped in drama from now until the end of time. It is what it is 👎🏾
@@TheHavokNetwork my point about the writing is that probably nothing from that franchise is really going to win any significant award for the story. Let's be honest. Sonic boom and Sonic frontiers aren't going to be up there with immortal works like the "lord of the rings.."it just ain't happening.
Some of this has to do with the talent that they hire, and other parts have to do with the audiences they are going for and the constraints that are put on them. All these things affect the end product.
As far as controversy goes. If people just ignored these individuals, they wouldn't get any attention and there wouldn't be a controversy. People can go complain online to Ian all they want. I doubt it's a significant portion of the Sonic fandom around the world. But if somebody wants to prove me wrong, feel free.
You're bound to have someone happy people when you have a lot of different media that Sonic the hedgehog franchises on and a lot of it not really being connected. Especially when you have big differences between these things. Sat A.M. verses Sonic boom. They are completely different animals. And the shows generally don't have a whole lot to do with the video games. Sonic x might be the exception to this. And even then, they took liberties with that.
Oh for sure, i don't think it's Sonic Team's goal to be "as good" as Lord of the Rings. They have their audience and I don't think they plan on doing anything crazy. And I agree, ignorance is definitely bliss in this situation. The fandom is always going to be full of idiots, and that why I love pointing and laughing at em. Just wanna make a few others laugh in the process
No piece of media is gonna make everyone happy. That's a given for sure. I don't even really care about people being "happy" with anything Ian or any other Sonic writer makes. Just don't say things that don't make sense like he's the worst Sonic writer ever 🙄
I disagree with the idea that sonic always has bad writing but everything is kinda true sega barely utilizes theirs characters, there is rarely any meaningful change unless it’s characters assassination and the it feels like sega only wants to appeal to kids and fanboys while everyone else can kick rocks😭
@giovonniiclayton That I also agree with. There is a lot of wasted potential when it comes to the Sonic series, especially recently. I guess that's why Frontiers was such a breath of fresh air since I personally found it pretty decent. It's not a perfect story and I think the way it was STRUCTURED was pretty awful with so many abrupt breaks between the narrative just to go back to collecting things, but hopefully that structure doesn't return
just journey'd through Shadow Generations.
man I gotta tell you, this dude should NOT be the lead writer going forward.
Like I've heard and said elsewhere.
he's a phenomenal AMAZING "concept guy" he just can't actually write the phenomenal concepts he comes up with.
The Metal Virus Arc as a concept?
Fucking Peak 10/10.
Metal Virus Execution? especially with characters like Shadow and how he loses in that story or forcing The Deadly Six to be the main final threat in the end?
trash. actual garbage.
his *complete insistence* on turning Amy into the same kind of character as Sally Acorn?
Trash.
EVERYTHING about Metal Sonic's Character and how he was handled in the Metal Virus storyline?
bruh.... sensational.
he's not the best Sonic Writer of all time by ANY means. But he definitely has a skill for attention to past and classic details that shouldn't be ignored.
he's not a leader by any means and should not be the lead writer under any circumstances since to do that would require a great understanding of ALL the characters and not just a few.
but the ideas and genius concepts he comes up with definitely means he deserves a place and to be included.
I respect this but cannot say this means anything to me at all since it has nothing to do with the story of this game. I'm not even done yet and I've enjoyed all the changes he's made to the story. And he doesn't have the final say on every aspect of what he writes. Whether it be the comics (which are irrelevant when it comes to this game) and the stories of Frontiers and Generations. I respect your opinion but I can't really use it towards the plot of this game and all and the rewriting he's done. Sorry.
Let Ian Flynn cook please! 🥺🙏🏿
@@devinsauls9137 PLEASE let him cook!
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀
Hell no! 😂
@@TheEggPaladin Oh well, it was worth a shot :/
@4:00 Facts. SEGA will discontinue the Sonic franchise, before they ever go woke.
And that's one thing that comforts me about this series. It stays away from injecting politics into its writing and there are so few franchises that stick to their guns on this. The day Sonic goes woke, I may just stop playing videogames
Wait until bro learns that theres an official guy couple in the IDW Comics@@TheHavokNetwork
So they ARE official? If so, that's pretty neat 👌🏾
@@TheHavokNetwork if you're thinking Tangle and Whisper, sadly no. But there are characters named Nite the Owl and Don the Rooster that are officially a gay couple in the comic (also I hope it was obvious my original message was joking, I didn't want to come off sounding like an ass)
@@SillyTron_ I figured as much. I haven't heard of those characters though but it is still interesting 🤔 Leaves open more potential for relationships in the future
I don’t know what people on Twitter are bitching about. I like Ian Flynn’s writing. Unlike Pontac & Graff, he actually knows the Sonic lore, inside and out. However, I feel Ian Flynn teaming up with Shiro Maekawa in the writing room, would cook even more.
Besides, a lot of these Ian Flynn haters on Twitter are probably Ken Penders fans.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 most likely. I've played pretty much every Sonic game out there and I know without a doubt that Ian is cooking and any help he can get from other great writers is welcomed as well. And yeah f*ck Ken Penders
To be fair. Ian wasn't the only writer for frontiers if you actually look at his idw stuff its kinda inconsistent even more so with archie. I mean you can't just ignore all that just because he wrote a a game you liked, you have to look at his sonic stuff as a whole and there are definitely some weak points, ian himself mentioned it that he can be way to on the nose with stuff especially with references and stuff. Hes a good sonic writer but hes not this god savior of sonic like everyone claims
@@reggielacey2235 I've never seen him as a god. No man is a god. There's only One, and He ain't down here. Secondly, I don't see why I have to read EVERYTHING he writes to appreciate him. If I'm a fan of something he's made, can't I then call myself a fan of his work? If you only watch the Marvel movies and not read the comics, are you then not able to call yourself a Marvel fan?
I may not dabble in the comics myself, but I've heard plenty about the comics. From my viewers and from my friends - both of whom I trust. And there are elements they've shared that I enjoy (How certain characters are written, how come characters actually have nuance and don't worship the ground Sonic steps on like they do in the games, how certain hinted at relationships in the games actually get some attention in the comics, etc).
If you believe his work is bad, or even mediocre, then that's your right and I respect that. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that you aren't allowed to disagree with me. That's stupid.
I would like to talk with you like this in the future, by the way. Nothing against you. If you drop a sub, maybe you can teach me more about the series in future vids 👌🏾
Sonic fans
@@ScapeVEVO Well said, dude. Well said. That's not even sarcasm, that REALLY sums it up 😭
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussions at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀
The biggest Ian Flynn hater I can think of, has to be JDFrank20. For one thing, that dude is obsessed with Amy, and he really believes that Ian Flynn hates said character, and is trying to make her less popular. Lol. I kid you not.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 I might have to look them up because I haven never heard of them. But it's insane that someone can possibly ruin Amy more than whoever wrote her during her "Ooh Sonic, have my babies" era. I'll need some proof of that
@@TheHavokNetwork First of all, Amy is too damn young for Sonic. He’s 15, and she’s 12. But it’s funny to watch him constantly reject her though. Lol. Just like in the Adventure Era.
Oh, and another fun fact about JDFrank20, is that he does not like Shadow at all.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 I'm not gonna get into the semantics of SonAmy - I do believe in it but it's not life of death for me. And why the hell doesn't he like Shadow. I assume it has something to do with ShadAmy? I'm not exactly a fan of that ship either, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it
-_- Twitter is toxic as always but it’s weird you are defending the man while refusing to read his work (comics). Sonic comics are great as a whole, main reason I’m staying as a Sonic fan these days. But you go from “SONIC THE COMIC” and “ARCHIE SONIC” to the boring “IDW SONIC”, fans are right to feel cheated.
First of all, I do support him. I've played Frontiers and I've heard about him from my friends, who I trust. So I think I have the right to defend him even if I don't support EVERYTHING he does. Also, fans can "feel" betrayed if they want, but the bottom line is that his desires for work come before anything his fans want. That's just how business works. And maybe he just enjoys working on IDW more, who knows?
@@TheHavokNetwork Businesses can only be successful if there are those who enjoy the product to keep consuming more. Those that come back to consume are what you call “fans”. From what I can tell, they were mainly upset about Ian’s work in the comics, not Sonic Frontiers.
@@whaleping I only brought up Frontiers because you made it seem like I knew absolutely nothing about him but maybe I misunderstood you. And yes, I understand he needs to be willing to bend A LITTLE in order to keep people coming back to his work. Though it can get to a point where the fans don't actually know what's best, and in these examples I've shown, I believe that Ian is in the right to want the "fans" out of his ear so he can do his own thing. No "fan" should be the end all be all for what a creator does because then the actual HUMAN that's working on said product just becomes a machine that bends to every silly whim of those who tell him to write Sonic a certain way, only write for Sonic, and only write for certain instances while ignoring others all because someone called it "boring." I'm going to use the same logic that Matthasnocuts has used for me - that is SUBJECTIVE
Also, if you enjoyed the video and the discussion at all, please consider subbing and sticking around for more 😀 This has been fun, even if we don't exactly see eye to eye on this
honestly, i can't take sonic twitter seriously, place is full of badniks if catch my drift.
your getting the worst of both worlds.
Yeah you're not wrong. SOMETIMES there's a good take or two, but not super often
Also feel free to sub and stick around. I'm sure we'll both get a chance to make fun of Sonic Twitter again soon 🔜
I already started watching Jujutsu Kaisen and I will never watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure because the animation is cringe.
I'm happy that you enjoy JJK. I never really liked Phantom Blood and that's why I stopped watching JoJo but I don't care much for anime to begin with and even then, I usually only watch them when they're no longer popular and I don't have to worry about hype, spoilers or my friends running their mouths about it 24/7
Sonic fans love nothing more than whining about how much they hate the sonic franchise.
@@OtioseFanatic Here here lmao.
@@TheHavokNetwork I know right? I know you said you're never gonna read the comics but I don't get the hate. The writing is JUST as peak there. The second arc is a gat dang walking dead pastiche that somehow manages to be more serious and respectful to the source material than anything TMC ever cooked up.
@@OtioseFanatic Well maybe if enough of you guys convince me, I can consider giving it a read. Hell, Lanolin is trending on Twitter right now and apparently it's because people are happy that she's getting hurt all because she's a little nuanced and doesn't just suck Sonic's dick like LITERALLY every other Sonic character nowadays (I'm being hyperbolic, but it is MOST). Its a breath of fresh air and might get me to take a peek at the comics 🤔
@@TheHavokNetwork Lanolin has always been kind of a bitchy character (mostly because she's basically constantly having to babysit the crack addled children that are Sonic and Tangle so I get it) but the most recent arc she's being more of a stick in the mud than usual in noticably dumb ways. I'm still holding out hope though. Without spoilers, things are happening in the background with the side characters getting involved and it could very well be big.
@@OtioseFanatic Eh I don't really mind characters that are a little more on the coarser side if they have good reason to (Miguel O'Hara is an example of this as he's definitely kind of a prick sometimes but he usually has good reason to be). Plus it's nice to have characters that aren't all happy go lucky all the time (Sonic personally is one of my least favorite characters in the franchise, but again, I respect him as a character and what he represents). This definitely has me a bit intrigued though. Maybe I'll make a video on all the drama some time this week or next and ask how many of my viewers actually WANT me to cover the comics so definitely stick around if they interests you 😁
Saying that Sonic Colors or Forces have bad writing (which they have, don't get me wrong) but acting like every game before it had good writing is insane to me. Not saying you think that way or saying that but I wouldn't consider the writing before Colors to be that better either.
Also, what's up with people acting like Baldy Macnoshair killed their family?? Sonic literally only said 3 times in the whole series and people act like that the only thing he said throughout the 2010s. The people who genuinely get upset over the joke are more annoying than the joke itself.
@@cerealguy9979 The joke is bad. That was the only point I was making. And I don't think Ian could make a joke as bad. People that talk about that joke being the WORST thing that happened to Sonic isn't my personal take. And there were several games that had better writing than Colors and Forces. Adventure 1 & 2 come to mind. If you disagree with that, then that's fine. But if you don't like the writing in those games, then yeah I guess Sonic has just never had good writing ever. 😮💨
Not trying to say you suck btw. I loved this video and the comment I wrote doesn't just apply to you. I just think this is weird, consider the writing in this whole franchise was shaky at best since, the very beginning.
@@TheHavokNetworkI agree that there are better written Sonic games than both Colors and Forces but I also think the bar is really low imo. While I am not a fan of SA2 story, at least I can appreciate the writers ambitions and I can definitely see that they tried to write a compelling story, even if it goes all over the place. To me, that's why I consider Unleashed to have the perfect fit in how a Sonic tone and story should be. It isn't as embarrassing comical, as Colors or LW but it's not also as try hard edgy wannabe as 06 or Shadow.
As for Baldy Macnoshair, I also don't find it funny but for a stupid harmless joke like this, the hate is overblown, especially compared to the other problems the series has.
That's fair and I'm glad you were entertained. At the end of the day, that's my main objective. Well and these discussions, because I find them very fun
Oh yeah, the BMN joke isn't NEAR the worst thing ever. I think the only reason I personally don't like it is because they reused it in my least favorite Sonic game ever (Forces). So it just resonates with me more. But despite my disdain for Forces, I understand that there are games that are objectively worse and have objectively WORSE writing. I'd argue 06 is probably worse as a game even though it's one of my favorite games in the franchise.
Actually, Penders also had a hand in ruining the fandom as well as Sega and Sonic Team.
I can believe Penders is a bigger villain for sure. I actually have a lot of history with what he's done. Far more than with Ian
@@TheHavokNetwork I only hate Ian for turning Fiona Fox into a remorseless villain that I feel no sympathy for, the fact he unintentionally caused people to ship Fiona with Scourge despite the fact their relationship is toxic and shallow as a puddle. Then there's how his later comics started to get more and more watered down compared to the depth and complexity they had before.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 I didn't know Ian had the rights to Fiona and Scourge. Could've sworn those characters belonged to Ken but I guess i might've been incorrect
@@TheHavokNetwork He doesn’t own them but he wrote them during his run in the Archie comics.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 Ah I suppose that's fair. Yeah I hate when people write toxic relationships only when the fact that they're toxic is flat out lampshaded. And it happens quite a bit in stories and I prolly my eyes and lose a lot of interest when it happens. Like Sohei and Yayoi Dojima in Yakuza 2 or Sasuke and Sakura in Naruto Shippuden (I don't know how much better it gets in Boruto, I don't watch that show and don't plan to).
smh theses mfs can't even think their own opinions man, I'd bet whatever they all started ganging up on ian because of Pariah's video (which was good btw)
@@pixeiotto122 It was an amazing video actually and I liked it a ton. Though that's fair, I shouldn't be judging these fans and should instead be judging Ian for not making Surge into a h0mphobe. One day I'll have a good take, homie. But it won't be today 😊
@@TheHavokNetwork oh wait I wasn't criticizing you dw
@@pixeiotto122 Oh I thought you were lol. I did like the video but yeah once again, Ian is giving his opinions here and of course Sonic fans aren't letting him. It's almost like they don't practice what they preach 🤔
oh my god fax
@@TheHavokNetworkmost people just don't hear what people say and assume they speak like the vocal minority
Ian is alright I don’t hate the dude or think he ruined everything but some of his writing decisions are objectively bad and poorly executed , I dislike the way he written sonic himself,instead of progressing some of the story arcs with good writing the story is progressed and dragged out because of characters stupidity, and he knows sega won’t allow him to kill off villains or get rid of them for too long so I don’t understand why he puts the heroes (mainly sonic) in positions where it’s the obvious and smartest choice knowing he can’t and instead of having the villains get away in smart clever ways instead the heroes just let them go or do something stupid that give the villains a unearned edge and this is a problem he can easily fix but he makes it worse when addressing it or he just doesn’t at all. I want to see Ian improve his writing idw was the first sonic comic I got into and I enjoyed the metal virus arc and some of the new characters but the problems I mentioned really drag the comics down for me that I lost interest and couldn’t tolerate it anymore it felt like a waste of time. Also sonic frontiers kinda mid the gameplay was alright and the story was lowkey trash nothing wrong if you like it tho
Can't really agree with the Frontiers thing. I don't see how the story was trash like at all and I may just have to really sit down and play the game again because I remember being pretty invested throughout and really enjoyed how the characters were written. Can't say much about IDW, but I'll have to take your word for it until I get to reading them myself. I'll see how bad Ian really is one of these days. I appreciate the discussion nonetheless though
@@TheHavokNetwork that’s great for you man unfortunately for me I just don’t see any redeemable qualities in it
@@giovonniiclayton We'll have to agree to disagree then. Which is fine. Like I said, maybe I'll take another look soon and see if my opinion changes
@@TheHavokNetwork that’s fine me personally I hyper analyze stuff so I tend to be more judgmental with fiction but even then I have my “guilty pleasures” as people would say
@@giovonniiclayton I am the same way too. It's why I'm as open as I am to being challenged. I could definitely be wrong about this. I just need to find the time to really take in the story again. And I really appreciate this talk. Hopefully you stick around for when I do eventually take another look at Frontiers
To be fair, Ian literally went scorched earth with sega taking multiple characters and concepts that would have made for very interesting or cool plots, from what i understand, because they wanted him to rain in his wild storys a bit (he litteraly made charmy bee mentally inept through brain trama because the higher ups wanted charmy a kid like in the games), and the litteral day he found out his original contract was lost he copy righted all his characters, that he cant legally use himself because of there brandings, so sega couldn't use them.
@@undeadreborn4867 I'm not against him copyrighting his characters. They're his. Literally every writer does this. Second, while you could judge him for copyrighting his stuff in response for being told to chill, it's still his right and I don't see how that makes him the WORST writer in all of Sega. Because he doesn't want anyone else using his characters? He could've just stopped working on the comic or just ignored Sega and kept doing what he wanted. At least he's a good employee by listening to his higher-ups, even if he did protect his characters in the process. I dunno, I just don't feel that's enough to scapegoat him like that 😮💨
@TheHavokNetwork My issue isn't with the copyright of his character, but the concepts involving said characters. Echidna tribes, character parents, the name of the planet, etc. sage can't use ANY of that because of Ian. I don't approve of the hate of him working for Capcom to Wright megaman comics, like you said man's gotta eat, but I understand why the sonic community hates him since he's litterally cutting sega off from his characters, making characters with similar concepts, and playing out similar concepts he's used in there future works.
Edit: have you heard of Shade the echidna, she's a character created by bioware for the sonic the dark brother hood rpg game, they cannot use her because flin has copyrighted the very concepts of other echidnas, if they are not knuckles, tecal, chef pachacamack, or a completely nameless random, sega can't use them or they risk the guy say "Give me royalties"
@@undeadreborn4867 Ian did that? I coulda swore Ken Penders did all that. If Ian Flynn did all of that, then I guess I kinda get it but that sounds kinda like what Penders did. You're telling me Ian went and did all those same things a second time?
@TheHavokNetwork Oh crap, that is a MASSIVE my bad, I got the two mixed up, I'm so used to Ken being the subject for these kinda of situations I went on auto pilot. no to my knowledge Ian has no blam in these regards and I have no idea why sonic fans are hating on him so much, Ken is the real jerk.
@@TheHavokNetwork I can delete my comment if you need me to, I feel like I will confuse some people if I leave it up.
"sonic doesnt force sexuality like literally everything else?" not sure what you mean by 'force' but amy has been straight for sonic for over 30 years. rouge's entire aesthetic is built around her sexual appeal. its heavily implied that tangle and whisper are a lesbian couple. sexuality exists. i dont see why thats a bad thing.
@@WillowWytch69 Key word in my statement is "force." As in place it where it doesn't fit and hinders the story. Amy loving Sonic, Rouge having a large rack and Whisper and Tangle subtly having interest in each other isn't forced and doesn't hinder the stories they're in (Well the first one has actually been a little overbearing in some instances and that's an example of it being a bit forced since in a few entries, it's Amy's ENTIRE character.) An example of sexuality being forced in my opinion is in the Last of Us 2 and no, it's not any of the g@y portions (even though those aren't written well either) and it's not even Lev (again, not handled all that much better). It's the s3x scene randomly in the middle of the fight Abby and that other dude I can't remember the name of - because he literally just exists to create drama and die - were having. It was unnecessary, jarring, pace-breaking and went on for way too long. The Sonic series has never done something so awkward and random, and that was my ENTIRE point. Sexuality isn't the problem, and I've never believed that it was
@@TheHavokNetwork that makes sense. And I do agree with that. Sorry for this misunderstanding 😅
@@WillowWytch69 You're fine, you're fine 😀 Just a civil discussion between fellow Sonic fans
Also if you enjoyed the vid I'd really appreciate a sub, I'm really close to 500 and want to make more vids like these 😀
@@TheHavokNetworkthat are trying to make tangle and whisper gay for no reason but its not gonna happen
:v
Why the odd face?