Great work! I actually tested the compostability of PHA ~2 years ago (yet never posted a video on it). ColorFabbs allPHA composts beautifully within a short amount of time, the Canadian Regen PHA on the other hand looked basically untouched after ~ 2 months in my compost. This means that PHAs are not created equally but they are definitely a step into the right direction!
REGEN PHA Filament was not PHA. It was a co-blend of PLA+PHA. With the Anti-greenwashing laws that passed recently in Canada, I have the suspicion they pulled the product off market before getting sued for false claims.
@CNCKitchen please consider making that video! I was so disappointed by the PLA composting video and have been dreaming of a truly home compostable filament that doesn't produce microplastics. Warping aside PHA looks so good!
Pla not being made the same is how the lies about it started to, ten years ago. I'm not jumping on the same bandwagon again. Besides, plastic is an end product. Just because it gets smaller in compost does not mean it was biodegraded. Not like every other thing it appears to work on, at minimum.
I would probably switch to PHA if it was a similar price to PLA. The heat stability alone would be helpful and not worrying about drying the filament would be a plus; hope that gets tested. Thanks for the video.
I am the former CTO of Beyond Plastic, the product is now discontinued. The cost of the raw material alone is 4X the cost of PLA. Simply because PLA mass production is currently saturated (Corbion cancelled their China expansion plan). While PHA is still ramping up. There is pricing reduction opportunities with volume, but we never came close to achieving this at BP. There are new PHA filaments coming out, working on a collaboration with a US established producer. Hope to make an announcement in December or January, new formulation with improved properties.
I collaborated with Beyond Plastic and tested their PHA formulation, the warping issue is that formulations main issue. Check out the PHA subreddit, I have some research posts showing how to fix the issue entirely, however the answer was to expose my Prusa MK4 to near freezing temps inside of my refrigerator! The former Beyond Plastic engineers are still working on a "next generation" PHA, which should resolve the warp issue without needing to freeze the ambient air around the printer to prevent the warping that occurs during the crystallization process. Keep an eye out for it in the future, you can actually sign up for the testing in the subreddit.
In metal that sort of thing is how tempering is done. How's the speed of cooling change the structural aspects of it? Smaller crystals would probably make it less elastic but might also affect it's temperature stability? That's nifty to know. I wonder if you can use an old college trick of adding salt to ice to lower the freezing point run a copper tube through it to exchange air temp with it to get enough cooling if ducted through the part cooling fans. Or if some peltier bed coolers would be needed to get there. So strange trying to get a print cold, normally you struggle to get it hot to keep stability.
We have begun testing PHA for use in my Conifer nursery. I am excited at the possibility of manufacturing my own root pruning bio-degradable containers instead of being reliant on Jiffy.
I'd see about using a paper based method for that. Can fold newspaper as a quick option, or perhaps build a mould and fill it with pulp... need to try that.
In my experience, there are 3 major downfalls to PHA: 1. Warping, as you mentioned 2. Bridging, as you mentioned briefly 3. Malleability or lack of rigidity. PHA is very soft compared to PLA or PETG, which makes it unsuitable for structural prints. Anything
Any experience with how it behaves with other filaments for support? It's probably difficult to get any other filaments to work on a cold bed at the same time.
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@@hanswurstusbrachialus5213 I LOOOOVE my 65D TPU, so this could work well for me. But it seems to not spring back as TPU? Thats a problem if so...
I have a bit of experience with pha. I’ve known it for quite a while and in the plastic industry they call it the sleeping giant because of its untapped potential. The industry is more into recycled plastics (for now at least) than producing true bio polymers. Also (for what I experienced with a couple of moulders) pha is not easy to injection mold with standard equipment and it deforms a lot when out of the mold even after a long cycle time. It’s more dense than common abs and more difficult to source so it costs a lot. Manufacturers are not ready for it it but maybe 3d printing people are, I personally really like the fact that it’s basically bacteria juice! 😊
Thank you so much for talking about it !! As you might have seen on the Wikipedia article, PHA is not a single polymer but a family of polymers with some of which have very interesting properties such as PBS. Sustainability tends to be dismissed in 3D printing but there are so many efforts to use 3DP as a medium for recycling and sustainable materials, it's a shame they aren't talked about more. So thank you once again for this video
I was completely unaware of PHA but will now 100% be looking into it more. This could be a real game changer for stuff like making action figures and especially for injection molding. Most of the real negatives for injection molding PLA in different applications are brittleness and heat sensitivity but PHA removes those as an issue in many respects. PHA could be a real contender for a sustainable and far more applicable bio-plastic in the future and I really hope we see more of it. Incredibly exciting!
I tried out printing with PHA as an alternate material for a flute I designed. It worked pretty well! Just a little sagging on bridges and I made sure to put a big no-clearance brim on it which was easy to remove afterward. Even though it's tougher along the XY plane, I did notice that it wasn't as strong between the layers as PLA. I was able to snap my flute in half by hand (and CA glue it back together). I hope PHA catches on to reduce all the plastic waste 3D printing usually generates. I look forward to the biodegrading tests
Very interesting stuff. I noticed that colorFabb from the nEtherlands has something called allPHA which appears to be PHA and in stock. Price point is 25€ for 750g which is pretty ok and not as expensive as I expected given the comments. Definitely gonna try this on the next actual product for selling. Should be a nice alternative to the other filaments. Edit: Small correction, the price was missing tax, so it's actually 32€/750g. Which puts it about 2x of simple PLA.
I am seriously considering stopping PLA for PHA for my next spool order. Thanks for this video. Compostable and eco friendly plastic is a default choice for me. The model you choose for the test is a good idea, but I would like to have like a thin layer (just a rectangle) of maybe 0.5mm ? To see holes with a light behind or deformation after composting. Thanks for the excellent work !
Extremely interested in PHA. One of the reasons I was okay with 3D printing is that I knew no petroleum products were used in creation of the filament. Getting a filament that prints on par with PLA, that is better from a materials standpoint, and that is more easily broken down when end of life would be fantastic. I probably wouldn't pay double for this filament, but I would certainly pay a substantial premium. In the long run, prices would surely fall and get it on par with PLA from a price standpoint.
Absolutely I would buy it. It's exactly what I'm looking for, and I can fix the warping. Very interested in the next video with actual biodegradability.
7:14 this is very appealing to me, i hate when parts of my prints look like a different color or texture bc of nozzle speed variations. If the warping can be mitigated and the price is reasonable, this might become my goto for basic stuff.
I'd never heard of PHA until now, but if it performs as you've shown then it seems to be overall better than PLA and much better for the environment. I'd be willing to pay a small premium and switch to it, if it was priced similar to PLA I'd definitely make the swap... providing that it is better for the environment, so looking forward to your follow up testing! I was impressed with the heating comparision against PLA, what's the glass transition temp of PHA?
Tg of PHA is -10c to 6 c. What you really want to know is the heat deflection temperature. And that is 145c range. Compare to PLA having Tg of 65c and heat deflection temp of 70c.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Thanks, indeed I was looking for the temp at which it softens (which I've often heard others refer to as glass transition temp). From the video clip showing it in an oven I figured it must be quite a bit higher than PLA
We actually had a reseller scheduled for Australia, and he decided to bail on the deal at the last minute. After 3 months of negotiation. Frustrating to say the least. But will get there.
Another Great Video. 1. No plastic wrap, TICK. 2. Print process and quality TICK, 3. Price will be an issue, but the more we see of this test, if biodegradability is proven, I'll put it in the shopping list each time.
Really curious to see how biodegradable this filament is. One thing that always makes me feel guilty about printing is the amount of waste I produce with no viable way to recycle it. If someone could figure out the warping issues would be all for printing with PHA. IMO I would rather have plastic that degrades over time and just need to reprint it every once in awhile then something that lasts for thousands of years.
totally the same with me, i wouldn't even mind if the plastic degrades within a month since 50% of what i print by volume are jigs and dimensionaly proofing parts, not actual part that need to last
Biodegradable does not equal compostable. Biodegradable materials need special conditions to biodegrade. Biodegradable materials do not fully biodegrade on their own when thrown into wilderness. These materials can stay for hundreds of years in dirt without fully degrading. 90% of biodegradable stuff is a scam.
You have to keep in mind that if you throw away your PLA prints and they burn them in the garbage disposal the CO2 released is roughly the same amount that the corn the PLA was made of absorbed while growing. So basically, PLA is CO2 neutral, accept for the manufacturing process of course.
Former CTO of Beyond Plastic Here. "How biodegradable this filament is?" Easy answer: The material is TUV Austria Marine Biodegradable Certified (Certification S2979). This is the highest and most stringent certification available today for biopolymers. In brief, it must pass three test: 1) Marine biodegradability as per ASTM6691 2) Toxicity testing using the above medium with Magna Daphnia, less than 10% mortality rate (we pass with 0%). 3) Disintegration test, 90 days must break down as quick as paper (cellulose). This was actually the toughest test to pass. New material is being developed, eta December or January launch.
Hi Michael! Good content as usual! Regarding availability of PHA; I use Colorfabb's PLA/PHA alot, very pleased with it being not as brittle as PLA already with that blend. But more to the point, Colorfabb has a rather new product namely their pure PHA. It's called allPHA and from what I can see, in stock. I tried it when I helped a friend repair his electric kettle. I can only agree on the warping tendencies, but that aside an interesting material. BR
For the long term test items, I'd say prints that are expected to function would be a better test than art pieces, since people generally are more careful with art (I think). Tools that natuarlly have to take at least a little bit of abuse, measuring tools to see if any fine details like small numbers are affected, simple mechanisms like a printed planetary gear or similar to see if the mechanism can still act after deg. Looking forward to the results!
So if I am following this correctly, it prints comparably to PLA in most cases, it has better heat and UV resistance is and is more resilient / less brittle than PLA. I guess we didn't see how well it did with bearing a load. I am very interested to see if this is actually biodegradable. I would absolutely use this with what I know right now, it seems to be better than PLA in a lot of ways. This may be a pedestrian question, but how does it stack up against ABS? From my perspective, which isn't very sophisticated, the heat and UV resistance are the main benefits of ABS vs PLA, and while those usually aren't a concern for me, sometimes they are. This just seems like it can replace ABS in a lot of use cases without the need for an enclosure and ventilation and have less of a long term environmental implact. I'd also be interested to learn about other aspects, like is this food safe or plant safe for plants you are going to be harvesting? How is adherence between this and other filaments? How does it clean up? (I haven't printed things where I worry about sanding or painting or vapor smoothing yet, but eventually I will get there).
It was looking so good up until the warping. That is just not acceptable, especially since it doens't seem to have a workaround to resolving that issue. One thing you should think about adding to your filament testing is a shrinkage test, such as califlower. Shrinkage is a major issue when printing mechanical parts.
"not acceptable" dude, all common printing materials shrink, have you tried PETG, ABS, ASA, Nylon... :D PLA is quite an exception in that it does not need a heated chamber.
@@PunaJussi The low print temp of PLA, combined with a lower thermal coefficient of expansion, certainly helps. I just printed two parts 14mm wide and 280mm long, laying flat, and they are amazingly flat. So I'll hold off on any "new stuff" until it is as easy to use as PLA or PETG.
@@oyuyuy _"PETG doesn't have warping issues"_ -- huh? I have problems with PETG prints warping, not all the time, but certainly often enough that I know a claim that it simply "doesn't have warping issues" at all is false. The warping demo in this video involves very thin vertical walls, which is a different warping profile than PETG has in my experience and appears to be a worst case scenario for PHA. The other prints demonstrate that with more forgiving print scenarios, PHA is perfectly fine. So...know your material, print the right material for the job, mitigate known issues if necessary.
@@harvey66616 Then you're doing something wrong. I've printed 100s of kgs of the stuff and honestly I can only recall like 2 or 3 prints that had warping issues - which was of course easily managed by adding a brim that I should've added from the get go.
Yes I would switch to PHA if the warping was manageable. I love the idea of putting scraps and failed prints in the compost pile rather than the landfill.
The mechanical properties are impressive! Even with the warping issues, the filament looks well worth a try. I'm surprised that the gargoyle's wings didn't curl up, as there's not much bed contact around the wing tips.
If it actually biodegrades as intended, and the price was right, I would 100% replace PLA in most instances! I like that this stuff is more temperature stable and seems to be tougher than PLA. I generally like impact resistant materials more than the most rigid. The warping seems to be a pretty hard issue to overcome. I hope it doesn't get "fixed" by blending with materials that don't biodegrade.
If that was readily available. I would 100% consider moving to PHA. Thanks for creating, and sharing this information! I look forward to future updates on the PHA. Maybe a phone stand for indoor use. That or a container that could be used outdoors and indoor to hold small items.
Supply and demand issue. If demand rises to the levels of PLA, PHA will become more available and cheaper. Especially if the Chinese think they can make a buck on it.
Biodegradable + saves energy ( no build plate heating requires) + UV resistant (great for outdoor applications) = almost perfect plastic material Thanks for this, looking forward to see how fast and easy it degrades.
For me it needs to be a real upgrade. I switched to PCTG earlier this year and love it too much. I'm worried that the biodegradability of PHA is compromised by different types of pigment that filament producers add. There are pigments that could potentially be bad to environment like the microbes that break down the PHA.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Hey, thanks for replying! Good to know that BP was actually mindful of this. Though I personally wouldn't trust filaments that come from China or unbranded stuff. There's even big filament makers who do not share which pigments they use, which I often try to find in the technical datasheets but it's rarely in there. With composting, one of the first things I would think of, besides biodegradability, is the use of additives that could be harmful. I hope this PHA becomes a thing so I can give it a try :)
Wow this looks phenomenal overall. The impact and heat resistance are great qualities. If layer adhesion matches PLA it would be really awesome. The warping is a pain, but hopefully a heated chamber like on my Qidi would help. Great video!
I was pretty much sold on this filament when I saw it doesn't come with vacuum sealed plastic bag. I like 3D printing because pretty much everything can be recycled and any instance of cutting down on those unsustainable parts of the hobby are great. The rest of the video had me even more sold as I was expecting it to be much more like PLA rather than having properties more towards what I'd expect from PETG. I'd deffinately consider this over PLA if readily available
Looking forward to your biodegrading test. As a novice, I'd be nervous about printing with PHA without the same legwork that's already been done for other filaments. I'm definitely interested though, and would be willing to pay a 20% cost premium to use a biodegradable filament in place of PLA.
Hi. It's my first time seeing your impact test jig so apologies if you had it for a long time and I'm making this comment too late; But how it shakes upon each movement of the hammer would act as a dampener for the motion of the hammer and introduces error to your statistics. I suggest either adding rubber feet in each corner or bolting it to the table. I'd definitely go with the latter. Thanks for putting great content. Hope I could help with a small matter. You actually inspired me to try ASA filament (FormFutura AppoloX) from when you made an airbox for your drift Silvia very long time ago. Cheers!
Wow, I'm in. If the composting works I would be more than happy to just run my old prints through a grinder and throw it in my compost pile. Even if it goes into the landfill I would be happy.
Interesting filament. Nice temperature hold, good strength and elasticity. After having constant good results with pa6 trimmer line, warping is not a problem.
I run a farm and plastic in our compost sources is a big deal. For testing, solid rods of different diameters would be interesting to see. The thicker the wall, in theory the longer it will take to break down. Small plastic often "break down" but it's more mechanical than chemical. Not sure if you want to test your pile, but the heat of the pile will make a big different on overall biological activity and the prevalence of particular microbes (e.g. if it needs bacteria to break down, a hot pile may be better than a cooler pile which might be better for fungal processes).
Having seen the video and read some of the very informative and helpful comments, I would certainly give it a try. Interesting that it prints best in low temperatures. Sounds like a fun material to try out and hopefully do some useful prints with. Hopefully it will become more available 🤞
PHA warps, like a lot. You need to cool your plate as much as you can, making sure to cool down the plastic as much as possible and/or use a lot of glue. I’ve used them for bushings on a small boat dock, they work very well. They don’t degrade while in the water, but anything that’s worn off and falls to the seafloor will get eaten by the bacteria, and if anyone drops a bushing it will also eventually wash up on a shore and be eaten by the bacterias. Very good for marine applications where the print doesn’t come into contact with the sea floor
I did use100% Pha from Regen Canada, and it was way better than beyond plastic Pha in terms of warping. I was able to print huge straight objects on my prusa XL on a cold bed. Beyond plastic was abysmal as it would warp 100% of the time. Regen Pha is better than pla and is awesome for fan shrouds, as it won't sag over time. As for composting, I did try it in my hotbin composer and it breaks down at a similar pace as pla, but instead of turning into brittle dust, it retains structure. So far I have not observed a full decomposition after a year. Overall, I would suggest trying Pha by regent at 230c+. I saw it is still stocked in Canadian Amazon.
This would be fantastic if some of the more reputable manufacturers were to step up & tinker with it. I'd absolutely purchase it! The heat resistance alone would make it a go-to filament for me.
Having mainly printed in PLA and PETG, I have not really experience warping, that I can tell anyway. Most of my prints have a large surface area for bed contact, and after getting tuned, have only experienced prints coming off the bed with key filaments (which probably means more fine tuning as it is mainly due to collisions at high heights). I would be interested in PHA over PLA for both the biodegrading as well as the heat and UV resistance. I printed quite a few things that sit in my car, and had to switch to PETG as in the summer here in Ontario, PLA would warp. If the cost is the same, (or a few bucks more per reel) I would switch, but as some stated below, not all PHA are equal, and I would want to go with a backed brand.
Very interesting! I'm currently researching toxic emissions (UFPs and VOCs) from 3D printers, wherein PLA actually emits the least airborne material out of the most common materials. I wonder how PHA would perform in this case, and what materials the emissions contain.
Yup, to me the voc emissions will also be huge factor in deciding if i will buy any PHA products in the future. There needs to be more research tho. Right now, there are no health effect / voc studies as far as i know of.
I'm more interested in its heat resistance, in my testing with PETG it is not nearly as heat resistant as many people claim it to be, an alternative that doesn't offgas styrene gas but can handle being in the sun would be very welcome. Another huge issue with PETG, ABS, and ASA is that the available color treatments and silk are not really available, I'm not sure if this is an issue with demand or if it is harder to color those materials than PLA, but if PHA is able to be treated with the same color variation as PLA can, that would be exciting. I know I am something of a minority in the space, but I hate printing with PLA because of the low heat resistance, even just plastic creep as a result of low temperatures makes it something I have zero faith in. I would love another filament to replace it outright by being as easy to print but with better mechanical properties.
i would for sure give it a try at least if it was available for the same conditions. The heat resistance makes it pretty interesting. As for your tests, a few things came to my mind regarding the model. It would be interesting to see how much it stays in dimensional accuracy during the test period. So a model with measurable dimensions would be good. Perhaps it would be fun to make a crossover episode with Stefan from CNC Kitchen or Igor from MyTechFun to test more mechanical properties? It sure would be interesting for me, seeing you doing practical prints and test them in everyday use, while one of them tortures testprints in every thinkable way
Thanks. I like the idea of being eco friendly. I don't know how much of a premium I would be willing to pay, yes something 5%, 50% 75% I don't know. I love the concept that it is more departure resistant, and stronger. I assume once it is more popular, there will be better blends, and setting.
Id love to switch specially for the added flexibility and lack of moisture retention while still being "better" for the environment. An outdoor degradation test would be interesting.. Bird house maybe?? That said, warping on a 30$ roll is an issue for me so wondering if it has to do with layer adhesion since the brim stayed on the plate. Still happy to pay a slight premium for some plastic that will actually dissapear
If they can get this down to $20-25 a spool it would help fill a niche between PLA and TPU, not too brittle, not too soft, good heat resistance. also competitive with PETG, and actually can be biodegraded. The uniform finish and printing temps, would be a selling point as well to print farms, they can print faster(without obvious banding), for less expense due to lower heat, and can be more eco friendly, while offering something that stands up to heat warping better. Also with that warping though.. I think you need to find the glass transition temperature of this material and get the bed there. Just like the new 'frozen' build plates.. just because you can print colder, doesn't mean you should. The plastic is fighting you and you need to figure out why, probably too cold still, plastic shrinkage is an important parameter.
Very interesting material that I would love to use! Biodegradability is an important factor to me and this material checks that box and many others. It looks very promising
I've printed around 6kg of PHA. The warping is indeed it's massive bottleneck and kind of limits what you can print with the filament. Out of my experience, using textured beds, with glue stick and lowering your Z offset and not using any fan except for bridging tends to yield best results. Also, what is interesting is that not all PHAs are the same. You've had a fairly elastic batch, I've had extremely brittle and fragile ones. Iirc, there are like 9 different families of PHA. I also recall it crystalizing over time at ambient temperatures, turning them a lot more brittle and weak. So for any parts printed out of PHA, it's not a question of "if" they fail, but rather "when" they fail.
Industrial conditions feels inaccessible to the every day person but we use a Lomi home composter for our PLA no problem - so if you are interested in composting your own PLA that's the path I'd recommend!
Thank you! PHA needs more coverage to go beyond being a spool of plastic that has random letters in the name. Always wanted to try PHA but availability and price is a problem. For prototyping and printing random toys is perfect! biodegradability is the most important feature for non functional prints, and should be the norm. I hope it becomes more widely available.
I don't really print in PLA any more - I'm actually working through a project now to try and use up my remaining stocks - but it sounds like PHA might be usable as a PETG replacement, too. If that was the case then assuming that a) PHA was comparable in price and availability and b) the bio-degradablility factors are accurate, I would happily switch. Now all we need is a bio-plastic that's as easy to sand and solvent weld as ABS but is also easy to dispose of, and I'd be all set for truly green printing. :)
im wondering, did you lower the fanspeed on the PHA prints to prevent warping? much like PETG needs a lower cooling amount or else itll warp right off of the bed
For something tricky sometimes I will use a recommendation I read for abs and somewhat petg, which is turning of cooling completely for a set number of first layers usually I will go for 10.
I would absolutely like to get ahold of some PHA. I'm using almost exclusively PETG at this point because I hate how PLA behaves after printing and I'd really like to get back to something that's healthier for the environment. At $30/kg PHA isn't THAT much more expensive than good PETG or PLA which run $20-$25/kg, so it's absolutely worth it to me.
PHA's material properties remind me a lot of Extrudr GreenTec Pro. Its components are not specified exactly, but it is said to be a very environmentally friendly material. It prints like PLA, has a better surface quality and is significantly more heat-resistant. There is also a carbon fibre version. The company says of GreenTec Pro: "GreenTEC Pro comes from our BIO Performance range and has been specifically developed for ultra-high performance applications. The material has a heat deflection temperature of 160°C (VST A - 4mm wall thickness) and is optimised for high stiffness and flexural strength. The material offers a high-quality, semi-matt appearance. GreenTEC Pro is the ecologically harmless alternative to conventional industrial materials, consists of 100% renewable raw materials and is biodegradable in accordance with DIN EN ISO 14855. In addition, the raw material has food approval (FDA)."
Super interesting! I didn't know about PHA. Sad to see that it's becoming hard to source. I would be very interested in a deeper dive into potential ways to mitigate the warping issue.
I mostly print ASA in my case, mainly because for functional prints properties are just much better than PLA or regular ABS and my Voron can handle it just fine. But PHA does seem to address most of the issues I have with PLA, mainly heat stability, brittleness and UV stability, while also being actually compostable. So I would definitely like to give it a go
I wonder about 3 things: 1, availability. this stuff sees to be VERY hard to find. 2, creeping. I don't print PLA much at all anymore, because under even light load it will creep and deform over time. This stuff might fare a little better, judging by the temp resistance. 3: compostability. Sure, this seems like a good thing, but it also tells me that this plastic is a horrible material to use outdoors, as mechanical parts and even protective parts will decompose and fail. even ABS is not suitable thanks to how it degrades in the sun. Ergo: this seems like a plastic that, if you can find it, is meant for stuff you intend to throw away or keep indoors... and I dunno about you, but I don't exactly want my decorative parts like sculptures and stuff to decompose after a year or 3.
According to the website it needs to be eaten by micro organisms to degrade. So if you keep it away from soil it should be good. I'll find out soon enough.
I'm okay with 3 years. 1 year not so much. 3 years, though, just reprint it if it's still relevant. The problem is many 3d prints end up binned long before 3 years and don't biodegrade anytime soon.
@chublez That's you, not me. I print stuff that I still use 5 years later. Half the problem of pollution is this "Throwaway culture". Rather than making stuff that lasts, everyone is just "Nah ill throw it away, buy a new one or make a new one." Rather than improving.
I am very interested because a home compostable plastic is a unicorn. It doesn't exist, at least not yet to my knowledge. The "compostable" plastics presently have only been compostable under the highest cost commercial facilities, and then, they have composted minimally. It's not truly compostable if it doesn't fully break down in a reasonable amount of time, say a year in a properly tended residential compost pile. That would be a game-changing product.
Correct, greenwashing PLA products have become the norm. However, you may have noticed that a lot of PLA filament producers have now removed any claims of biodegradability. Or at least the once that do not want to be sued by EU and Canada Anti-greenwashing laws. We are still playing catchup in the US.
If PHA can be produced at a similar price to PLA or PETG I'd be more than willing to at least try printing it and see how it behaves. The impact resistance and thermal stability would be extremely useful for a lot of the things I print as I do a lot of functional parts and printer part upgrades. The warping behaviour is a bit of a concern but I kinda wonder if my experiences printing ABS are anything to go by - anything's fixable with a stable environment, a clean PEI sheet and patience!
08:00 the section might be consistent, but the testing will not be if you change the infill. Lower infill will flex more and take up more energy in the swing
The only PHA I've seen for sale is the Colorfabb and at 3 times the price of a good PLA filament. I'll probably give it a try but I can't warrant the price for regular use. Hopefully if more people start using it the cost will go down and I'm sure the warping issue can be addressed in future updated formulae.
I would be more likely to replace my PETG rather than PLA. I use PLA because it's easy and doesn't warp, I use PETG for the attributes you mentioned in this video (stiffness, temperature, uv).
I think you should test the biodegradability for sure. It would be nice to see a fine lattice to see how well fine objects break down, but I would also like to see functional parts printed and exposed in the same way to see if they are affected. Maybe objects with fuzzy texture will catch bacteria in the air and degrade on a wall outside, or do stakes in the ground with plant labels loose their stake?
Did you try maximum cooling fan to combat the warping instead of heat? The heated bed and enclosure did nothing, maybe the opposite is the answer. And yes, I would buy this in a heartbeat.
PHA, to me, anyway, seems like a good prototyping material. I mostly work in PLA and PETG (particularly carbon fibre impregnated PETG), so, when working through a design process, I'll often use PLA for design testing and commit to PETG-CF for when I'm happy. This has led to fair pile of waste, which I tend to keep in a kids' toy box that's shaped like a garbage skip - my "bin of shame." The contents never quite fill the bin because I try to reuse this co-mingled PETG and PLA for "melt panels", kind of like small bits of "wood" or "aluminium" by melting them in ceramic nonstick baking trays in a toaster oven. It's good for cutting brackets, soft jaws for my drill vice, axe and hammer handle wedges, etc. It is probably going to catch up with me, though, so having a prototyping material that I can feed to the "better half's" garden would reduce the contents of the bin-of-shame when it nears the brim.
does seem to tick enough boxes to switch from pla/pla+ but the warping is definitely a pain. as for test print, i recon an egg in vase mode should be great model to test shape, strengh, decomposition etc
I would potentially use it as an ABS replacement. I get spools for about $12 a kilo from Sunlu, so I understand if that’s an unachievable price point. If it were $15-$20 a spool, I would find it worth considering.
I print with PLA because it's basically non-toxic, and I didn't see a discussion of this in the video. If I can print with PHA and not worry about the fumes, its better material properties seem tempting - although having to use glue might be annoying. PLA has the advantage of coming in thousands of variants, so plenty of people won't want PHA that doesn't have galaxy glitter or what have you, but I'm part of the probably majority that just wants basic colors, so PHA could work for me. I'm not sold, though.
I would switch to PHA in a heartbeat. I found out about the filament a few years ago but was much to expensive (and out of stock) when I looked into ordering it. I hope it comes back.
I would switch to vPHA if it was same cost as PLA as the other comment stated. One thing on Sticking to the bed. We all know that bed heaters are inconsistent. It is always hotter in the center and cooler as we print out to the edges. I wonder if we had a bed that could heat the same throughout the compleat bed size if that would make any difference in warping for all materials. Q: is warping due to inconsistent cooling of the part during printing. It seems to me that we never see warping of large prints in the center it is always starts at the edges. Again, if we had a bed heater design that heated the bed evenly would that solve or greatly reduce the issue? I wish we had even a crude version of Star Treks Replicator. Maybe 50 or 100 years from now we are going to look back on 3D printing like we do at early computers.
It’s worth investigating whether your local government in Australia does industrial composting. Councils that do FOGO bins usually do. If so their process can manage PLA, where ordinary garden composting can’t.
Realistically, as much as I'd want to switch to PHA (even if it was a little bit more expensive), I probably wouldn't go ahead. That's purely down to the warping, which i think could be very frustrating as it looks tricky to overcome. That said, i'd definitely buy a spool and try it out.
I would be curious about its use as a support material. How cleanly it removes from prints would be interesting especially since supports are the part that are always thrown away.
Interestingly you actually increased the rigidity of the print by putting it in the oven. PHA anneals at room temperature, and crystalizes rapidly at higher temperatures
The warping is a problem. I already had this problem with PETG, and it makes life really hard. The better heat stability and UV resistance, on the other hand, would be a bonus. Hard to say if I would buy it. I might give it a try, but the warping does not sound good.
Great work! I actually tested the compostability of PHA ~2 years ago (yet never posted a video on it). ColorFabbs allPHA composts beautifully within a short amount of time, the Canadian Regen PHA on the other hand looked basically untouched after ~ 2 months in my compost. This means that PHAs are not created equally but they are definitely a step into the right direction!
REGEN PHA Filament was not PHA. It was a co-blend of PLA+PHA.
With the Anti-greenwashing laws that passed recently in Canada, I have the suspicion they pulled the product off market before getting sued for false claims.
Getting a big chunk of lies and misinfo off our airwaves is going to be great. Gotta love it
You should make a video about it and help get the trend going. We need manufacturers to see there is interest.
@CNCKitchen please consider making that video! I was so disappointed by the PLA composting video and have been dreaming of a truly home compostable filament that doesn't produce microplastics. Warping aside PHA looks so good!
Pla not being made the same is how the lies about it started to, ten years ago. I'm not jumping on the same bandwagon again.
Besides, plastic is an end product. Just because it gets smaller in compost does not mean it was biodegraded. Not like every other thing it appears to work on, at minimum.
I would probably switch to PHA if it was a similar price to PLA. The heat stability alone would be helpful and not worrying about drying the filament would be a plus; hope that gets tested. Thanks for the video.
I am the former CTO of Beyond Plastic, the product is now discontinued.
The cost of the raw material alone is 4X the cost of PLA. Simply because PLA mass production is currently saturated (Corbion cancelled their China expansion plan). While PHA is still ramping up.
There is pricing reduction opportunities with volume, but we never came close to achieving this at BP. There are new PHA filaments coming out, working on a collaboration with a US established producer. Hope to make an announcement in December or January, new formulation with improved properties.
I work at a filament company. We’re hoping to be able to hit $24.99/kg for PHA (compared to our $21.99/kg for PLA)
This is the main driving factor, Price. People are gonna use whatever the most cost effective for the job.
@@MitchDavis2 Hey Mitch, glad you found the post.
@nikushim6665 not all people are so selfish they only consider effective from their own narrow perspective
I collaborated with Beyond Plastic and tested their PHA formulation, the warping issue is that formulations main issue. Check out the PHA subreddit, I have some research posts showing how to fix the issue entirely, however the answer was to expose my Prusa MK4 to near freezing temps inside of my refrigerator!
The former Beyond Plastic engineers are still working on a "next generation" PHA, which should resolve the warp issue without needing to freeze the ambient air around the printer to prevent the warping that occurs during the crystallization process. Keep an eye out for it in the future, you can actually sign up for the testing in the subreddit.
In metal that sort of thing is how tempering is done. How's the speed of cooling change the structural aspects of it? Smaller crystals would probably make it less elastic but might also affect it's temperature stability? That's nifty to know.
I wonder if you can use an old college trick of adding salt to ice to lower the freezing point run a copper tube through it to exchange air temp with it to get enough cooling if ducted through the part cooling fans. Or if some peltier bed coolers would be needed to get there. So strange trying to get a print cold, normally you struggle to get it hot to keep stability.
Hi Derrick, you are 100% correct.
Great to see you here.
What in the world. That's pretty funny because you'd expect heat to be the answer while in here taking it away was. Pretty interesting
@@ares395 You can read my intro at the above, but yes. It is counterintuitive. but it as everything to do with Tg temp being of -10c to 6c.
Interesting. Solid metal plate under the build surface, keep it in the freezer and bring it out just before printing?
We have begun testing PHA for use in my Conifer nursery. I am excited at the possibility of manufacturing my own root pruning bio-degradable containers instead of being reliant on Jiffy.
I'd see about using a paper based method for that. Can fold newspaper as a quick option, or perhaps build a mould and fill it with pulp... need to try that.
In my experience, there are 3 major downfalls to PHA:
1. Warping, as you mentioned
2. Bridging, as you mentioned briefly
3. Malleability or lack of rigidity. PHA is very soft compared to PLA or PETG, which makes it unsuitable for structural prints. Anything
Shore 70D already tells the story
Any experience with how it behaves with other filaments for support? It's probably difficult to get any other filaments to work on a cold bed at the same time.
@@hanswurstusbrachialus5213 I LOOOOVE my 65D TPU, so this could work well for me. But it seems to not spring back as TPU? Thats a problem if so...
So it's more like PP?
Anyone else notice the description says "all onions expressed are my own"
That is a biodegradable typo.
Onion hoarder alert !
Michael does have a garden!
When he wrote that Michael hadn't had his pi yet.
I love onions
I have a bit of experience with pha. I’ve known it for quite a while and in the plastic industry they call it the sleeping giant because of its untapped potential. The industry is more into recycled plastics (for now at least) than producing true bio polymers. Also (for what I experienced with a couple of moulders) pha is not easy to injection mold with standard equipment and it deforms a lot when out of the mold even after a long cycle time. It’s more dense than common abs and more difficult to source so it costs a lot. Manufacturers are not ready for it it but maybe 3d printing people are, I personally really like the fact that it’s basically bacteria juice! 😊
Thank you so much for talking about it !! As you might have seen on the Wikipedia article, PHA is not a single polymer but a family of polymers with some of which have very interesting properties such as PBS.
Sustainability tends to be dismissed in 3D printing but there are so many efforts to use 3DP as a medium for recycling and sustainable materials, it's a shame they aren't talked about more.
So thank you once again for this video
I was completely unaware of PHA but will now 100% be looking into it more. This could be a real game changer for stuff like making action figures and especially for injection molding. Most of the real negatives for injection molding PLA in different applications are brittleness and heat sensitivity but PHA removes those as an issue in many respects. PHA could be a real contender for a sustainable and far more applicable bio-plastic in the future and I really hope we see more of it. Incredibly exciting!
I tried out printing with PHA as an alternate material for a flute I designed. It worked pretty well! Just a little sagging on bridges and I made sure to put a big no-clearance brim on it which was easy to remove afterward. Even though it's tougher along the XY plane, I did notice that it wasn't as strong between the layers as PLA. I was able to snap my flute in half by hand (and CA glue it back together). I hope PHA catches on to reduce all the plastic waste 3D printing usually generates. I look forward to the biodegrading tests
Very interesting stuff. I noticed that colorFabb from the nEtherlands has something called allPHA which appears to be PHA and in stock. Price point is 25€ for 750g which is pretty ok and not as expensive as I expected given the comments. Definitely gonna try this on the next actual product for selling. Should be a nice alternative to the other filaments.
Edit: Small correction, the price was missing tax, so it's actually 32€/750g. Which puts it about 2x of simple PLA.
Aww man, I was very intrigued but the warping is a big deal for me. I'm running a business and thus reliability is key.
I am seriously considering stopping PLA for PHA for my next spool order. Thanks for this video. Compostable and eco friendly plastic is a default choice for me.
The model you choose for the test is a good idea, but I would like to have like a thin layer (just a rectangle) of maybe 0.5mm ? To see holes with a light behind or deformation after composting.
Thanks for the excellent work !
Extremely interested in PHA. One of the reasons I was okay with 3D printing is that I knew no petroleum products were used in creation of the filament. Getting a filament that prints on par with PLA, that is better from a materials standpoint, and that is more easily broken down when end of life would be fantastic. I probably wouldn't pay double for this filament, but I would certainly pay a substantial premium. In the long run, prices would surely fall and get it on par with PLA from a price standpoint.
Absolutely I would buy it. It's exactly what I'm looking for, and I can fix the warping. Very interested in the next video with actual biodegradability.
+1 for the UV resistance testing, there aren't many reviewers who commit to that
UV resistance is hard to test, even ABS lasts for a few months without any visible degradation
@@dtibor5903Accelerated wear testing could be done but it'll cost a bit to power. The uniformity of exposure will be useful too
7:14 this is very appealing to me, i hate when parts of my prints look like a different color or texture bc of nozzle speed variations. If the warping can be mitigated and the price is reasonable, this might become my goto for basic stuff.
I'd never heard of PHA until now, but if it performs as you've shown then it seems to be overall better than PLA and much better for the environment.
I'd be willing to pay a small premium and switch to it, if it was priced similar to PLA I'd definitely make the swap... providing that it is better for the environment, so looking forward to your follow up testing!
I was impressed with the heating comparision against PLA, what's the glass transition temp of PHA?
Tg of PHA is -10c to 6 c.
What you really want to know is the heat deflection temperature. And that is 145c range.
Compare to PLA having Tg of 65c and heat deflection temp of 70c.
Same here. I'd pay 50% more for a truly home compostable filament
@@fredpinczuk7352 Thanks, indeed I was looking for the temp at which it softens (which I've often heard others refer to as glass transition temp).
From the video clip showing it in an oven I figured it must be quite a bit higher than PLA
Interested in converting to PHA when generally available.
Very Informative, it would be nice if PHA could be easily sourced in Australia.
We actually had a reseller scheduled for Australia, and he decided to bail on the deal at the last minute. After 3 months of negotiation. Frustrating to say the least. But will get there.
Another Great Video. 1. No plastic wrap, TICK. 2. Print process and quality TICK, 3. Price will be an issue, but the more we see of this test, if biodegradability is proven, I'll put it in the shopping list each time.
Really curious to see how biodegradable this filament is. One thing that always makes me feel guilty about printing is the amount of waste I produce with no viable way to recycle it.
If someone could figure out the warping issues would be all for printing with PHA.
IMO I would rather have plastic that degrades over time and just need to reprint it every once in awhile then something that lasts for thousands of years.
totally the same with me, i wouldn't even mind if the plastic degrades within a month since 50% of what i print by volume are jigs and dimensionaly proofing parts, not actual part that need to last
Biodegradable does not equal compostable. Biodegradable materials need special conditions to biodegrade. Biodegradable materials do not fully biodegrade on their own when thrown into wilderness. These materials can stay for hundreds of years in dirt without fully degrading.
90% of biodegradable stuff is a scam.
You have to keep in mind that if you throw away your PLA prints and they burn them in the garbage disposal the CO2 released is roughly the same amount that the corn the PLA was made of absorbed while growing. So basically, PLA is CO2 neutral, accept for the manufacturing process of course.
Former CTO of Beyond Plastic Here.
"How biodegradable this filament is?"
Easy answer:
The material is TUV Austria Marine Biodegradable Certified (Certification S2979). This is the highest and most stringent certification available today for biopolymers.
In brief, it must pass three test:
1) Marine biodegradability as per ASTM6691
2) Toxicity testing using the above medium with Magna Daphnia, less than 10% mortality rate (we pass with 0%).
3) Disintegration test, 90 days must break down as quick as paper (cellulose). This was actually the toughest test to pass.
New material is being developed, eta December or January launch.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Where's the best place to stay informed of upcoming developments on this?
Hi Michael! Good content as usual!
Regarding availability of PHA; I use Colorfabb's PLA/PHA alot, very pleased with it being not as brittle as PLA already with that blend. But more to the point, Colorfabb has a rather new product namely their pure PHA. It's called allPHA and from what I can see, in stock. I tried it when I helped a friend repair his electric kettle. I can only agree on the warping tendencies, but that aside an interesting material.
BR
For the long term test items, I'd say prints that are expected to function would be a better test than art pieces, since people generally are more careful with art (I think).
Tools that natuarlly have to take at least a little bit of abuse, measuring tools to see if any fine details like small numbers are affected, simple mechanisms like a printed planetary gear or similar to see if the mechanism can still act after deg.
Looking forward to the results!
Yes, lots of potential benefits - particularly for in-air and in-sun uses requiring more strength. Looking forward to the test results! 14:57 👍
Great video. I will absolutely use PHA if I can find it. Being able to print with less environmental impact is a big deal to me. Thanks!
So if I am following this correctly, it prints comparably to PLA in most cases, it has better heat and UV resistance is and is more resilient / less brittle than PLA. I guess we didn't see how well it did with bearing a load. I am very interested to see if this is actually biodegradable. I would absolutely use this with what I know right now, it seems to be better than PLA in a lot of ways.
This may be a pedestrian question, but how does it stack up against ABS? From my perspective, which isn't very sophisticated, the heat and UV resistance are the main benefits of ABS vs PLA, and while those usually aren't a concern for me, sometimes they are. This just seems like it can replace ABS in a lot of use cases without the need for an enclosure and ventilation and have less of a long term environmental implact.
I'd also be interested to learn about other aspects, like is this food safe or plant safe for plants you are going to be harvesting? How is adherence between this and other filaments? How does it clean up? (I haven't printed things where I worry about sanding or painting or vapor smoothing yet, but eventually I will get there).
Very good video. You delivered on what you promised, it was descriptive, and it wasn't too long or too short. Thank you. 😊
It was looking so good up until the warping. That is just not acceptable, especially since it doens't seem to have a workaround to resolving that issue.
One thing you should think about adding to your filament testing is a shrinkage test, such as califlower. Shrinkage is a major issue when printing mechanical parts.
"not acceptable" dude, all common printing materials shrink, have you tried PETG, ABS, ASA, Nylon... :D PLA is quite an exception in that it does not need a heated chamber.
@@PunaJussi The low print temp of PLA, combined with a lower thermal coefficient of expansion, certainly helps. I just printed two parts 14mm wide and 280mm long, laying flat, and they are amazingly flat. So I'll hold off on any "new stuff" until it is as easy to use as PLA or PETG.
@@PunaJussi Nonsense, PETG doesn't have warping issues. PHA seems to warp more than Nylon composites too.
@@oyuyuy _"PETG doesn't have warping issues"_ -- huh? I have problems with PETG prints warping, not all the time, but certainly often enough that I know a claim that it simply "doesn't have warping issues" at all is false.
The warping demo in this video involves very thin vertical walls, which is a different warping profile than PETG has in my experience and appears to be a worst case scenario for PHA. The other prints demonstrate that with more forgiving print scenarios, PHA is perfectly fine. So...know your material, print the right material for the job, mitigate known issues if necessary.
@@harvey66616 Then you're doing something wrong. I've printed 100s of kgs of the stuff and honestly I can only recall like 2 or 3 prints that had warping issues - which was of course easily managed by adding a brim that I should've added from the get go.
Yes I would switch to PHA if the warping was manageable. I love the idea of putting scraps and failed prints in the compost pile rather than the landfill.
The mechanical properties are impressive! Even with the warping issues, the filament looks well worth a try.
I'm surprised that the gargoyle's wings didn't curl up, as there's not much bed contact around the wing tips.
Thanks for a great model.
@@TeachingTech Thank you. It has been a wonderful surprise seeing little gargoyle prints pop up in the most unexpected places :)
If it actually biodegrades as intended, and the price was right, I would 100% replace PLA in most instances! I like that this stuff is more temperature stable and seems to be tougher than PLA. I generally like impact resistant materials more than the most rigid.
The warping seems to be a pretty hard issue to overcome. I hope it doesn't get "fixed" by blending with materials that don't biodegrade.
If that was readily available. I would 100% consider moving to PHA. Thanks for creating, and sharing this information! I look forward to future updates on the PHA.
Maybe a phone stand for indoor use. That or a container that could be used outdoors and indoor to hold small items.
Supply and demand issue.
If demand rises to the levels of PLA, PHA will become more available and cheaper. Especially if the Chinese think they can make a buck on it.
Biodegradable + saves energy ( no build plate heating requires) + UV resistant (great for outdoor applications)
= almost perfect plastic material
Thanks for this, looking forward to see how fast and easy it degrades.
Id definitely make it my primary filament if the tests come back good. Hells. Given the heat test, Id start using it over PETG too.
For me it needs to be a real upgrade. I switched to PCTG earlier this year and love it too much. I'm worried that the biodegradability of PHA is compromised by different types of pigment that filament producers add. There are pigments that could potentially be bad to environment like the microbes that break down the PHA.
Former CTO of BP here. All pigments were certified to be either inert or biocompatible.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Hey, thanks for replying! Good to know that BP was actually mindful of this. Though I personally wouldn't trust filaments that come from China or unbranded stuff. There's even big filament makers who do not share which pigments they use, which I often try to find in the technical datasheets but it's rarely in there.
With composting, one of the first things I would think of, besides biodegradability, is the use of additives that could be harmful.
I hope this PHA becomes a thing so I can give it a try :)
Wow this looks phenomenal overall. The impact and heat resistance are great qualities. If layer adhesion matches PLA it would be really awesome. The warping is a pain, but hopefully a heated chamber like on my Qidi would help. Great video!
I was pretty much sold on this filament when I saw it doesn't come with vacuum sealed plastic bag. I like 3D printing because pretty much everything can be recycled and any instance of cutting down on those unsustainable parts of the hobby are great.
The rest of the video had me even more sold as I was expecting it to be much more like PLA rather than having properties more towards what I'd expect from PETG. I'd deffinately consider this over PLA if readily available
Looking forward to your biodegrading test. As a novice, I'd be nervous about printing with PHA without the same legwork that's already been done for other filaments. I'm definitely interested though, and would be willing to pay a 20% cost premium to use a biodegradable filament in place of PLA.
Hi. It's my first time seeing your impact test jig so apologies if you had it for a long time and I'm making this comment too late; But how it shakes upon each movement of the hammer would act as a dampener for the motion of the hammer and introduces error to your statistics.
I suggest either adding rubber feet in each corner or bolting it to the table. I'd definitely go with the latter.
Thanks for putting great content. Hope I could help with a small matter.
You actually inspired me to try ASA filament (FormFutura AppoloX) from when you made an airbox for your drift Silvia very long time ago.
Cheers!
Wow, I'm in. If the composting works I would be more than happy to just run my old prints through a grinder and throw it in my compost pile. Even if it goes into the landfill I would be happy.
Interesting filament. Nice temperature hold, good strength and elasticity.
After having constant good results with pa6 trimmer line, warping is not a problem.
Would extra cooling (such as an external fan) limit warping?
Also are there any methods to smooth the PHA, similar to ABS and acetone?
I run a farm and plastic in our compost sources is a big deal. For testing, solid rods of different diameters would be interesting to see. The thicker the wall, in theory the longer it will take to break down. Small plastic often "break down" but it's more mechanical than chemical.
Not sure if you want to test your pile, but the heat of the pile will make a big different on overall biological activity and the prevalence of particular microbes (e.g. if it needs bacteria to break down, a hot pile may be better than a cooler pile which might be better for fungal processes).
Having seen the video and read some of the very informative and helpful comments, I would certainly give it a try. Interesting that it prints best in low temperatures. Sounds like a fun material to try out and hopefully do some useful prints with.
Hopefully it will become more available 🤞
About half way through your video i looked up PHA filament on my favorite ecommerce site. So yes I would love to switch to it.
PHA warps, like a lot.
You need to cool your plate as much as you can, making sure to cool down the plastic as much as possible and/or use a lot of glue.
I’ve used them for bushings on a small boat dock, they work very well. They don’t degrade while in the water, but anything that’s worn off and falls to the seafloor will get eaten by the bacteria, and if anyone drops a bushing it will also eventually wash up on a shore and be eaten by the bacterias. Very good for marine applications where the print doesn’t come into contact with the sea floor
I did use100% Pha from Regen Canada, and it was way better than beyond plastic Pha in terms of warping. I was able to print huge straight objects on my prusa XL on a cold bed. Beyond plastic was abysmal as it would warp 100% of the time. Regen Pha is better than pla and is awesome for fan shrouds, as it won't sag over time. As for composting, I did try it in my hotbin composer and it breaks down at a similar pace as pla, but instead of turning into brittle dust, it retains structure. So far I have not observed a full decomposition after a year. Overall, I would suggest trying Pha by regent at 230c+. I saw it is still stocked in Canadian Amazon.
This would be fantastic if some of the more reputable manufacturers were to step up & tinker with it. I'd absolutely purchase it! The heat resistance alone would make it a go-to filament for me.
Having mainly printed in PLA and PETG, I have not really experience warping, that I can tell anyway. Most of my prints have a large surface area for bed contact, and after getting tuned, have only experienced prints coming off the bed with key filaments (which probably means more fine tuning as it is mainly due to collisions at high heights). I would be interested in PHA over PLA for both the biodegrading as well as the heat and UV resistance. I printed quite a few things that sit in my car, and had to switch to PETG as in the summer here in Ontario, PLA would warp.
If the cost is the same, (or a few bucks more per reel) I would switch, but as some stated below, not all PHA are equal, and I would want to go with a backed brand.
Very interesting! I'm currently researching toxic emissions (UFPs and VOCs) from 3D printers, wherein PLA actually emits the least airborne material out of the most common materials. I wonder how PHA would perform in this case, and what materials the emissions contain.
Yup, to me the voc emissions will also be huge factor in deciding if i will buy any PHA products in the future. There needs to be more research tho. Right now, there are no health effect / voc studies as far as i know of.
100% I would switch!! The lack of recyclability is my number one issue with pla printing. No body recycles it at all where I live :(
I'm more interested in its heat resistance, in my testing with PETG it is not nearly as heat resistant as many people claim it to be, an alternative that doesn't offgas styrene gas but can handle being in the sun would be very welcome. Another huge issue with PETG, ABS, and ASA is that the available color treatments and silk are not really available, I'm not sure if this is an issue with demand or if it is harder to color those materials than PLA, but if PHA is able to be treated with the same color variation as PLA can, that would be exciting. I know I am something of a minority in the space, but I hate printing with PLA because of the low heat resistance, even just plastic creep as a result of low temperatures makes it something I have zero faith in. I would love another filament to replace it outright by being as easy to print but with better mechanical properties.
i would for sure give it a try at least if it was available for the same conditions. The heat resistance makes it pretty interesting.
As for your tests, a few things came to my mind regarding the model. It would be interesting to see how much it stays in dimensional accuracy during the test period. So a model with measurable dimensions would be good. Perhaps it would be fun to make a crossover episode with Stefan from CNC Kitchen or Igor from MyTechFun to test more mechanical properties? It sure would be interesting for me, seeing you doing practical prints and test them in everyday use, while one of them tortures testprints in every thinkable way
Nice Video 😀 just one question. At which speed did you print? The recommendet Speed was not very high.
Thanks. I like the idea of being eco friendly. I don't know how much of a premium I would be willing to pay, yes something 5%, 50% 75% I don't know. I love the concept that it is more departure resistant, and stronger. I assume once it is more popular, there will be better blends, and setting.
Id love to switch specially for the added flexibility and lack of moisture retention while still being "better" for the environment. An outdoor degradation test would be interesting.. Bird house maybe?? That said, warping on a 30$ roll is an issue for me so wondering if it has to do with layer adhesion since the brim stayed on the plate. Still happy to pay a slight premium for some plastic that will actually dissapear
If they can get this down to $20-25 a spool it would help fill a niche between PLA and TPU, not too brittle, not too soft, good heat resistance. also competitive with PETG, and actually can be biodegraded. The uniform finish and printing temps, would be a selling point as well to print farms, they can print faster(without obvious banding), for less expense due to lower heat, and can be more eco friendly, while offering something that stands up to heat warping better. Also with that warping though.. I think you need to find the glass transition temperature of this material and get the bed there. Just like the new 'frozen' build plates.. just because you can print colder, doesn't mean you should. The plastic is fighting you and you need to figure out why, probably too cold still, plastic shrinkage is an important parameter.
Very interesting material that I would love to use! Biodegradability is an important factor to me and this material checks that box and many others. It looks very promising
I've printed around 6kg of PHA. The warping is indeed it's massive bottleneck and kind of limits what you can print with the filament.
Out of my experience, using textured beds, with glue stick and lowering your Z offset and not using any fan except for bridging tends to yield best results.
Also, what is interesting is that not all PHAs are the same. You've had a fairly elastic batch, I've had extremely brittle and fragile ones. Iirc, there are like 9 different families of PHA. I also recall it crystalizing over time at ambient temperatures, turning them a lot more brittle and weak. So for any parts printed out of PHA, it's not a question of "if" they fail, but rather "when" they fail.
I printed a dozen conduit caps in PHA and they have been in the sun and rain all year - good as new!
Industrial conditions feels inaccessible to the every day person but we use a Lomi home composter for our PLA no problem - so if you are interested in composting your own PLA that's the path I'd recommend!
Thank you! PHA needs more coverage to go beyond being a spool of plastic that has random letters in the name. Always wanted to try PHA but availability and price is a problem.
For prototyping and printing random toys is perfect! biodegradability is the most important feature for non functional prints, and should be the norm. I hope it becomes more widely available.
I don't really print in PLA any more - I'm actually working through a project now to try and use up my remaining stocks - but it sounds like PHA might be usable as a PETG replacement, too. If that was the case then assuming that a) PHA was comparable in price and availability and b) the bio-degradablility factors are accurate, I would happily switch.
Now all we need is a bio-plastic that's as easy to sand and solvent weld as ABS but is also easy to dispose of, and I'd be all set for truly green printing. :)
im wondering, did you lower the fanspeed on the PHA prints to prevent warping? much like PETG needs a lower cooling amount or else itll warp right off of the bed
For something tricky sometimes I will use a recommendation I read for abs and somewhat petg, which is turning of cooling completely for a set number of first layers usually I will go for 10.
I would absolutely like to get ahold of some PHA. I'm using almost exclusively PETG at this point because I hate how PLA behaves after printing and I'd really like to get back to something that's healthier for the environment. At $30/kg PHA isn't THAT much more expensive than good PETG or PLA which run $20-$25/kg, so it's absolutely worth it to me.
PHA's material properties remind me a lot of Extrudr GreenTec Pro.
Its components are not specified exactly, but it is said to be a very environmentally friendly material.
It prints like PLA, has a better surface quality and is significantly more heat-resistant.
There is also a carbon fibre version.
The company says of GreenTec Pro:
"GreenTEC Pro comes from our BIO Performance range and has been specifically developed for ultra-high performance applications. The material has a heat deflection temperature of 160°C (VST A - 4mm wall thickness) and is optimised for high stiffness and flexural strength. The material offers a high-quality, semi-matt appearance. GreenTEC Pro is the ecologically harmless alternative to conventional industrial materials, consists of 100% renewable raw materials and is biodegradable in accordance with DIN EN ISO 14855. In addition, the raw material has food approval (FDA)."
Super interesting! I didn't know about PHA. Sad to see that it's becoming hard to source. I would be very interested in a deeper dive into potential ways to mitigate the warping issue.
TY for testing this. It's very intersting, but I have enough problems with PLA warping... Does make me wonder what PHA-CF might be like.
How did this video go past my nose, this is awesome 😀 hope this gets to be the new PLA 😀
I’m using their PHA for my phone case. Polar filament is working on making some PHA. They are just waiting for more pellets.
Also I wonder if the new biqu cryogrip build plates would improve adhesion, since they are specifically designed for low temps.
I mostly print ASA in my case, mainly because for functional prints properties are just much better than PLA or regular ABS and my Voron can handle it just fine. But PHA does seem to address most of the issues I have with PLA, mainly heat stability, brittleness and UV stability, while also being actually compostable. So I would definitely like to give it a go
I wonder about 3 things: 1, availability. this stuff sees to be VERY hard to find.
2, creeping. I don't print PLA much at all anymore, because under even light load it will creep and deform over time. This stuff might fare a little better, judging by the temp resistance.
3: compostability. Sure, this seems like a good thing, but it also tells me that this plastic is a horrible material to use outdoors, as mechanical parts and even protective parts will decompose and fail. even ABS is not suitable thanks to how it degrades in the sun.
Ergo: this seems like a plastic that, if you can find it, is meant for stuff you intend to throw away or keep indoors... and I dunno about you, but I don't exactly want my decorative parts like sculptures and stuff to decompose after a year or 3.
According to the website it needs to be eaten by micro organisms to degrade. So if you keep it away from soil it should be good. I'll find out soon enough.
@@TeachingTech Keep us updated! cos if those issues aint... well, issues, then it's a very cool material beyond just written details.
I'm okay with 3 years. 1 year not so much. 3 years, though, just reprint it if it's still relevant. The problem is many 3d prints end up binned long before 3 years and don't biodegrade anytime soon.
@chublez That's you, not me. I print stuff that I still use 5 years later. Half the problem of pollution is this "Throwaway culture". Rather than making stuff that lasts, everyone is just "Nah ill throw it away, buy a new one or make a new one." Rather than improving.
Absolutely love your videos. Great stuff as always!
I am very interested because a home compostable plastic is a unicorn. It doesn't exist, at least not yet to my knowledge. The "compostable" plastics presently have only been compostable under the highest cost commercial facilities, and then, they have composted minimally. It's not truly compostable if it doesn't fully break down in a reasonable amount of time, say a year in a properly tended residential compost pile. That would be a game-changing product.
Correct, greenwashing PLA products have become the norm. However, you may have noticed that a lot of PLA filament producers have now removed any claims of biodegradability. Or at least the once that do not want to be sued by EU and Canada Anti-greenwashing laws.
We are still playing catchup in the US.
If PHA can be produced at a similar price to PLA or PETG I'd be more than willing to at least try printing it and see how it behaves.
The impact resistance and thermal stability would be extremely useful for a lot of the things I print as I do a lot of functional parts and printer part upgrades.
The warping behaviour is a bit of a concern but I kinda wonder if my experiences printing ABS are anything to go by - anything's fixable with a stable environment, a clean PEI sheet and patience!
08:00 the section might be consistent, but the testing will not be if you change the infill. Lower infill will flex more and take up more energy in the swing
The only PHA I've seen for sale is the Colorfabb and at 3 times the price of a good PLA filament.
I'll probably give it a try but I can't warrant the price for regular use.
Hopefully if more people start using it the cost will go down and I'm sure the warping issue can be addressed in future updated formulae.
I would be more likely to replace my PETG rather than PLA. I use PLA because it's easy and doesn't warp, I use PETG for the attributes you mentioned in this video (stiffness, temperature, uv).
I think you should test the biodegradability for sure. It would be nice to see a fine lattice to see how well fine objects break down, but I would also like to see functional parts printed and exposed in the same way to see if they are affected. Maybe objects with fuzzy texture will catch bacteria in the air and degrade on a wall outside, or do stakes in the ground with plant labels loose their stake?
Did you try maximum cooling fan to combat the warping instead of heat? The heated bed and enclosure did nothing, maybe the opposite is the answer.
And yes, I would buy this in a heartbeat.
PHA, to me, anyway, seems like a good prototyping material. I mostly work in PLA and PETG (particularly carbon fibre impregnated PETG), so, when working through a design process, I'll often use PLA for design testing and commit to PETG-CF for when I'm happy. This has led to fair pile of waste, which I tend to keep in a kids' toy box that's shaped like a garbage skip - my "bin of shame." The contents never quite fill the bin because I try to reuse this co-mingled PETG and PLA for "melt panels", kind of like small bits of "wood" or "aluminium" by melting them in ceramic nonstick baking trays in a toaster oven. It's good for cutting brackets, soft jaws for my drill vice, axe and hammer handle wedges, etc. It is probably going to catch up with me, though, so having a prototyping material that I can feed to the "better half's" garden would reduce the contents of the bin-of-shame when it nears the brim.
does seem to tick enough boxes to switch from pla/pla+ but the warping is definitely a pain. as for test print, i recon an egg in vase mode should be great model to test shape, strengh, decomposition etc
I would potentially use it as an ABS replacement. I get spools for about $12 a kilo from Sunlu, so I understand if that’s an unachievable price point. If it were $15-$20 a spool, I would find it worth considering.
I wonder if slowing the prints down, increasing nozzle temp, and adjusting cooling fans could reduce internal stresses that lead to warping w/ PHA?
Do the opposite, print fast and highest fan possible.
Very interesting. Hopefully it becomes more readily available. Had a quick look for Canadian vendors just now and there was nothing available.
I print with PLA because it's basically non-toxic, and I didn't see a discussion of this in the video. If I can print with PHA and not worry about the fumes, its better material properties seem tempting - although having to use glue might be annoying. PLA has the advantage of coming in thousands of variants, so plenty of people won't want PHA that doesn't have galaxy glitter or what have you, but I'm part of the probably majority that just wants basic colors, so PHA could work for me. I'm not sold, though.
I would switch to PHA in a heartbeat. I found out about the filament a few years ago but was much to expensive (and out of stock) when I looked into ordering it. I hope it comes back.
Totally interested in PHA. Having a real biodegradable filament will be a very good thing !
I would switch to vPHA if it was same cost as PLA as the other comment stated. One thing on Sticking to the bed. We all know that bed heaters are inconsistent. It is always hotter in the center and cooler as we print out to the edges. I wonder if we had a bed that could heat the same throughout the compleat bed size if that would make any difference in warping for all materials. Q: is warping due to inconsistent cooling of the part during printing. It seems to me that we never see warping of large prints in the center it is always starts at the edges. Again, if we had a bed heater design that heated the bed evenly would that solve or greatly reduce the issue? I wish we had even a crude version of Star Treks Replicator. Maybe 50 or 100 years from now we are going to look back on 3D printing like we do at early computers.
Yes I would buy it. For the degradeability test I would choose something that has some thin section as these should show signs of degradation first.
That was really informative but I would like to see more testing with higher bed and enclosure temperatures to see if that helps the warping
with current warping issues, I would use if similar price. I think variety of color options might also create an issue
It’s worth investigating whether your local government in Australia does industrial composting. Councils that do FOGO bins usually do. If so their process can manage PLA, where ordinary garden composting can’t.
Realistically, as much as I'd want to switch to PHA (even if it was a little bit more expensive), I probably wouldn't go ahead. That's purely down to the warping, which i think could be very frustrating as it looks tricky to overcome. That said, i'd definitely buy a spool and try it out.
I would be curious about its use as a support material. How cleanly it removes from prints would be interesting especially since supports are the part that are always thrown away.
Interestingly you actually increased the rigidity of the print by putting it in the oven. PHA anneals at room temperature, and crystalizes rapidly at higher temperatures
You know your stuff.
The warping is a problem. I already had this problem with PETG, and it makes life really hard. The better heat stability and UV resistance, on the other hand, would be a bonus. Hard to say if I would buy it. I might give it a try, but the warping does not sound good.