Oh man, this game. I could feel you slowly going insane, with all the weak laughter, little jokes and rooting for the enemy team. I was about to say you were doing very well at one point and that you could have kept with that but it was only working until those 11 range SOs showed up. They really were 100% countering anything in your army while cavalier was useless vs opposing stronger cavalier and mass ranged units. If it was HD you could have at least lamed opposing wood but no luck here. It was really funny when your monks were actually effective despite being weak Viking monks, I guess the other team was tired as well 11 The moment which melted my heart the most was when you finally got your four Mangudai, you sounded so happy, finally having some good units. Really, it was a moment of bliss and I sympathized so much there. Also nice that you did more with them than with 20 normal Vik units 11 I wish you created more zerks and used them to raid for the heck of it. After all that's their purpose, eh? They have one, right?
12 158 units died to bring us this game, we should pay some respect to them. Good job carrying the game with Vikings, I'm sure they were so much distracted by what happened to your castle that they ended up losing it...
In extreme late game, it is very worth it to trade food gold units for wood gold units and buildings right? Then why not spam berserkers against plums? Food and gold are expendable anyway?
I think you should have made a lot of raids with lot of small berserks groups in every directions to make diversion and blitz krieg: that's viking's war strategy spirit: go forward and destroy houses and town centers and vils in agressive uncontrolled way. The grouped army is a mess with infantry especially against best massed range weapons like mangudai, plume archers and siege onagers. You can save wood without rams (too weak) and make lot of farms and mass champions (+20% hit points freely in imperial age! unique bonus!) too with lots of barracks every where on the map, instead of only 4 castles to produce infantry. Just an idea, every civ got his strength to use. The monk strat with vikings and especially against mangudais: come on (you can buy wood with gold instead of that)! You must have more crazyness and chaos tactic here: in french "berserk" is translated by "fou de guerre"="war fool". pierce defense and go forward every where without trying to concentrate on one battle. attack as defense and divide ennemy force, harras and count on the other players for defense. If you hit close an ennemy building, he can't use onager or he destroys his buildings with your units so with destroy bonus you put one or 2 champ by building and you raze ennemy base very quickly. It's the opposite way to play with archers, make a wall, rain of arrows concentrated to block ennemy progression. The weakness is you can't divide archers because they became weak (small hit points and damage) so you can't control, defend every part of the map with archers (it was very clear here). Just flee the battle against range units and counter archers with mass skirmishers (very good for vikings) and get around with berserks and champs, and possible, by surprise (by night (^_-) (destroying all in the passage)). The cavalry is weak and cost too much against mass good viking infantry (champs and berserks). His speed advantage did nothing against it and they can be surrounded by more units (and berserks have new anti cav tech). You got to let uncontrolled agressive units, that's the strat: confidence to the vikings barbarian strength and spot buildings and villagers instead of ennemy's army: i know: that's vicious but also history (sorry)! Test it with best ai, you will see the efficiency of this tactic (also with celts because of speed infantry bonus or goths, because of less cost and best piercing armor of huskarls). In fact you even don't need siege: 30 elite infantry raze rapidly a castle (and they regain life after!). Personally i like to alternate bands of 40 to 60 full upgrade infantry in a small time (with two armies and only 80 or 100 civilians, most of them farmers (you can sell food for gold two if you are alone, infantry costing little gold)), one to attract ennemy's army, the other to infiltrate in ennemy's base while diverted by the first (see Lord of the rings tactic!). I spot first the town centers and let them in agressive way to kill villagers in them when destroyed and divide the second army in small groups in explosive way or i spot all town centers at the same time with the same number of equal groups of infantry to make panic and diversion again: the speed destruction bonus compensating the weak hitpoints (they are cheap, so you can sacrify them after destruction and create quickly others in barracks in continuous flow) . Then i assign one or two units by house or camp, stable or barrack (etc.) to ruin ennemy economy and units production (very efficient in late game because pop limit and no more wood and stone). The ennemy can't pursue each group because they are quickly everywhere on the map (this is submersion by the number and space occupation almost instantanouesly if you micro manage well). And also i prepare in advance creation of units (far, with all stock if it needs!) beyond pop limit to not make it while fighting in micro management (hard here because in lot of places) with gathering points in enemy's base (reinforcements) and assign number to the armies (2, 3 or 4) to group them back when it needs (against castles especially or to flee: that's a tactic too to divide ennemy forces and regain hit points with berserk, especially with unique tech bonus). Finally a door won't last very long again with destroy building bonus and if he resist like that make some trebuchets behind, exceptionnally and when destroyed go forward, flee any concentration point in battle (you can also attack walls in many points at the same time with trebs guarded by small groups of infantry going forward to any threat to slow down ennemy progression, even if you can't stop it, just to pierce defense or add skirmishers just in the front to block archers like mangudai (lot of cost for him) or pikemen to block cav). Voilà! Let me know your opinion about all of this.
It really felt like Max was performing poorly during mid-game. Enemy team was focused north and Max wasn't really producing much for awhile. I didn't see him get raided so I'm not really sure what happened there.
I saw this too, he was just building army and staying back. The other side was probably getting 2v3'd because of this. He should've probably been trying to attack somehow to take pressure off the other side a bit.
Viper (Vikings) had to carry whole side vs SOs and plumes while Max (Aztecs) was making champions. It was so weird. He even had to create Onagers himself because Max refused to provide SOs.
With Vikings -- why not make ~6 trebuchets and protect them with berserks + arbalests + allied units? Then make everything else to work on economy/trading.
As soon as siege onagers stop to shoot at berserks - trebuchets can kill them. But if SOs are well protected, then some help from allies would be needed of course.
He could also have 20+ cavalier at the ready to go after enemy SO. I know they're krap but geez, it's way better than berserks going after SO. Gotta work with what you have.
I always lose to vikings and I always lose when playing vikings. Any ideas how to counter the civ? I tried siege onagers with archers, but by the time I get to the point where I can stand my own I'm already forced off my resources.
Hard to answer without more details. Vikings generally lose to fully upgraded paladins though, because their pikemans don't have a big a bonus as halbs do vs cavalry. You don't want to be fighting the pikeman with paladins forever though, so support them with, guns, scorpions, arbs, or anythinh good against pikeman, depending on your civ. All they can do on land is arbs, champs, rams, and trebs. You probably don't even need siege onager, you could use just onager, and spend the other resources on stuff to protect them against champs and rams so you can be ready faster. If they do onagers them selves, then you have to hold them off, and try to get SO. There's quite a few ways to beat them, just look at what units they have and counter them. calv and siege for arbs; paladin, guns, arbs or stronger infantry against their infantry; and your own siege to counter their siege or bombard canons do fairly well against onagers as well. The only problem is that they have a good eco and can attack really quickly, so you might just need to ride out the early storm and wait for a team mate to help you. Or if you are the better player then it won't matter that much and you can easily counter them. If you are worse then get onager asap and wall up 11 and make something to protect your onagers until you can counter them properly.
24Eagle11 That's the problem, how do I get onager when the pressure is too much already in Castle age. I usually lose to early crossbows with skirms and whenever I try to be the first one to strike, I just fail. I can beat Goths pretty easily, it may be the good eco that's causing me troubles against Vikings. Basically out of nowhere there is about 20-30 units in my base at Feudal and I still end up being behind even though I hold with a little and focus on growing. Maybe I'm just too bad at AoE, haha.
ahh, I see, okay so it sounds like you're playing an open map like arabia? Most beginners play black forest or arena, so I was using those maps as a reference point. If it's arabia and you're losing to early rushes, you can try walling your base with pallisades early on, and then stone walls if possible. That's the easy and quick solution, they should buy you enough time to get to get an army of your own skirms and archers ready; or enough time to get to castle age; or to build a tower where they might attack from. When you reach castle age you don't have to try and get to imperial age to get onagers, in castle age if you're just up against xbows, then the basic mangonels should be enough to fend them off, just need some nice shots on them. If there's not too many xbows you can go for a combination of kts with all their armor upgrades and mangonels. Walls and towers are to buy you time, so maybe you'll need to get a few villagers on stone a bit early to be able to afford them. Of course this isn't ideal, but the other option is to watch a few tutorials on youtube about a build order that will help you fast castle or archer rush better, study it and then practice it with the ai. don't finish the game, just play for 10-15 minutes learning how you want to setup your economy, and then start over again haha boring but worth it. what's your rating on HD?
24Eagle11 I recently started playing online, I keep going up and down around 1620. I watched some casted games and follow Viper, but other than that I'm just trying to learn from my mistakes. I'm pretty decent on Black Forrest, but I tend to have bad eco when I have to defend too much no matter the cost of the units/walls. I can't take the time pressure and I guess I need a solution to Vikings in general. Their unit combination is causing me troubles, I can't get to equal numbers as enemy and when I do, I'm either behind on economy or have a bad matchup. Also, Knight line is way too expensive in my experience, since early it doesn't really beat mass crossbows and there is no Imperial Age for me (I'm pretty much done by that point). Thank you for advice though.
Ironically, gold becomes the most abundant resource in late late game.
Yeah, it's weird lol
#justteamgamethings
12:50 That is the whistling of the nerves, unmistakable
when I break accidentally something and no one knows who did it. 12:50
lol, that castle delete at 12:45
"Viper cries for 1 hour"
This needs to be the top liked comment 11
8:30 "i don't see how they can hold this now", one hour later, "i want to resign now"
Oh man, this game. I could feel you slowly going insane, with all the weak laughter, little jokes and rooting for the enemy team. I was about to say you were doing very well at one point and that you could have kept with that but it was only working until those 11 range SOs showed up. They really were 100% countering anything in your army while cavalier was useless vs opposing stronger cavalier and mass ranged units. If it was HD you could have at least lamed opposing wood but no luck here. It was really funny when your monks were actually effective despite being weak Viking monks, I guess the other team was tired as well 11
The moment which melted my heart the most was when you finally got your four Mangudai, you sounded so happy, finally having some good units. Really, it was a moment of bliss and I sympathized so much there. Also nice that you did more with them than with 20 normal Vik units 11
I wish you created more zerks and used them to raid for the heck of it. After all that's their purpose, eh? They have one, right?
12 158 units died to bring us this game, we should pay some respect to them. Good job carrying the game with Vikings, I'm sure they were so much distracted by what happened to your castle that they ended up losing it...
Amen.
48:30 "whatever. Let's pretend we're making a push here."
Lololol yeah that was amazing. Good push.
1:01:11 "How can we stop this"
> Korea SO splatter a bunch of Mangudai.
Yeah, I laughed at that part. The only way to stop Mangudai + SO is wait until they die accidentally 11
This might be the first time I've seen a part 2 that had more views than the part 1.
24:14 When you realize the other side is the cool side. ;)
27:37 and reminded again :)
wololo saves the day! monks to rule em all!
1:11:35 Viking raid = gg. #Clearly
The Four Mangudai of the Apocalypse.
the FOUR MANGUDAI were amazing :)
LOL Viking raides with a lot of monkes.... dying here.. LOL
Viper become more and more a Meeseeks to the end :'D Existence is pain!
In extreme late game, it is very worth it to trade food gold units for wood gold units and buildings right? Then why not spam berserkers against plums? Food and gold are expendable anyway?
I think you should have made a lot of raids with lot of small berserks groups in every directions to make diversion and blitz krieg: that's viking's war strategy spirit:
go forward and destroy houses and town centers and vils in agressive uncontrolled way.
The grouped army is a mess with infantry especially against best massed range weapons like mangudai, plume archers and siege onagers.
You can save wood without rams (too weak) and make lot of farms and mass champions (+20% hit points freely in imperial age! unique bonus!) too with lots of barracks every where on the map, instead of only 4 castles to produce infantry.
Just an idea, every civ got his strength to use.
The monk strat with vikings and especially against mangudais: come on (you can buy wood with gold instead of that)!
You must have more crazyness and chaos tactic here: in french "berserk" is translated by "fou de guerre"="war fool".
pierce defense and go forward every where without trying to concentrate on one battle.
attack as defense and divide ennemy force, harras and count on the other players for defense.
If you hit close an ennemy building, he can't use onager or he destroys his buildings with your units so with destroy bonus you put one or 2 champ by building and you raze ennemy base very quickly.
It's the opposite way to play with archers, make a wall, rain of arrows concentrated to block ennemy progression.
The weakness is you can't divide archers because they became weak (small hit points and damage) so you can't control, defend every part of the map with archers (it was very clear here).
Just flee the battle against range units and counter archers with mass skirmishers (very good for vikings) and get around with berserks and champs, and possible, by surprise (by night (^_-) (destroying all in the passage)).
The cavalry is weak and cost too much against mass good viking infantry (champs and berserks).
His speed advantage did nothing against it and they can be surrounded by more units (and berserks have new anti cav tech).
You got to let uncontrolled agressive units, that's the strat: confidence to the vikings barbarian strength and spot buildings and villagers instead of ennemy's army: i know: that's vicious but also history (sorry)!
Test it with best ai, you will see the efficiency of this tactic (also with celts because of speed infantry bonus or goths, because of less cost and best piercing armor of huskarls).
In fact you even don't need siege: 30 elite infantry raze rapidly a castle (and they regain life after!).
Personally i like to alternate bands of 40 to 60 full upgrade infantry in a small time (with two armies and only 80 or 100 civilians, most of them farmers (you can sell food for gold two if you are alone, infantry costing little gold)), one to attract ennemy's army, the other to infiltrate in ennemy's base while diverted by the first (see Lord of the rings tactic!).
I spot first the town centers and let them in agressive way to kill villagers in them when destroyed and divide the second army in small groups in explosive way or i spot all town centers at the same time with the same number of equal groups of infantry to make panic and diversion again: the speed destruction bonus compensating the weak hitpoints (they are cheap, so you can sacrify them after destruction and create quickly others in barracks in continuous flow) .
Then i assign one or two units by house or camp, stable or barrack (etc.) to ruin ennemy economy and units production (very efficient in late game because pop limit and no more wood and stone).
The ennemy can't pursue each group because they are quickly everywhere on the map (this is submersion by the number and space occupation almost instantanouesly if you micro manage well).
And also i prepare in advance creation of units (far, with all stock if it needs!) beyond pop limit to not make it while fighting in micro management (hard here because in lot of places) with gathering points in enemy's base (reinforcements) and assign number to the armies (2, 3 or 4) to group them back when it needs (against castles especially or to flee: that's a tactic too to divide ennemy forces and regain hit points with berserk, especially with unique tech bonus).
Finally a door won't last very long again with destroy building bonus and if he resist like that make some trebuchets behind, exceptionnally and when destroyed go forward, flee any concentration point in battle (you can also attack walls in many points at the same time with trebs guarded by small groups of infantry going forward to any threat to slow down ennemy progression, even if you can't stop it, just to pierce defense or add skirmishers just in the front to block archers like mangudai (lot of cost for him) or pikemen to block cav).
Voilà!
Let me know your opinion about all of this.
All those mangs, plums and SOs ate all their wood.
That castle delete though XD
"easiest game of my life"
Berserkers are just as powerful as Paladin when used right.
It really felt like Max was performing poorly during mid-game. Enemy team was focused north and Max wasn't really producing much for awhile. I didn't see him get raided so I'm not really sure what happened there.
I saw this too, he was just building army and staying back. The other side was probably getting 2v3'd because of this. He should've probably been trying to attack somehow to take pressure off the other side a bit.
I knew he will win from the first second when I saw the "The-guys" (Viper and Max) are in one team.
Viper (Vikings) had to carry whole side vs SOs and plumes while Max (Aztecs) was making champions. It was so weird. He even had to create Onagers himself because Max refused to provide SOs.
Vikes aren't as bad at 250 pop. You can swarm with cheap ass units.
Missing a part between this video and the previous one or is it my idea ??
nope, just you, its part 1 and 2
Part one ends with 10 horsemen attacking an urban center of theviper and when part 2 begins there is a dead rider ...?
yeah, guess that there are a few seconds missing, but you get the idea of what happened
Yes, my stream dropped for a few seconds between the last part and this one, but it's not a lot.
All good, good game, but you slept towards the end jjaj
But you didn't give your blood to this game, why so low pop with high res?
I actually watched this till end!!
rip entertainment...
With Vikings -- why not make ~6 trebuchets and protect them with berserks + arbalests + allied units?
Then make everything else to work on economy/trading.
Two Korean SOs kill this team.
As soon as siege onagers stop to shoot at berserks - trebuchets can kill them.
But if SOs are well protected, then some help from allies would be needed of course.
He could also have 20+ cavalier at the ready to go after enemy SO. I know they're krap but geez, it's way better than berserks going after SO. Gotta work with what you have.
I always lose to vikings and I always lose when playing vikings. Any ideas how to counter the civ? I tried siege onagers with archers, but by the time I get to the point where I can stand my own I'm already forced off my resources.
Hard to answer without more details. Vikings generally lose to fully upgraded paladins though, because their pikemans don't have a big a bonus as halbs do vs cavalry. You don't want to be fighting the pikeman with paladins forever though, so support them with, guns, scorpions, arbs, or anythinh good against pikeman, depending on your civ. All they can do on land is arbs, champs, rams, and trebs. You probably don't even need siege onager, you could use just onager, and spend the other resources on stuff to protect them against champs and rams so you can be ready faster. If they do onagers them selves, then you have to hold them off, and try to get SO. There's quite a few ways to beat them, just look at what units they have and counter them. calv and siege for arbs; paladin, guns, arbs or stronger infantry against their infantry; and your own siege to counter their siege or bombard canons do fairly well against onagers as well. The only problem is that they have a good eco and can attack really quickly, so you might just need to ride out the early storm and wait for a team mate to help you. Or if you are the better player then it won't matter that much and you can easily counter them. If you are worse then get onager asap and wall up 11 and make something to protect your onagers until you can counter them properly.
24Eagle11 That's the problem, how do I get onager when the pressure is too much already in Castle age. I usually lose to early crossbows with skirms and whenever I try to be the first one to strike, I just fail. I can beat Goths pretty easily, it may be the good eco that's causing me troubles against Vikings. Basically out of nowhere there is about 20-30 units in my base at Feudal and I still end up being behind even though I hold with a little and focus on growing. Maybe I'm just too bad at AoE, haha.
ahh, I see, okay so it sounds like you're playing an open map like arabia? Most beginners play black forest or arena, so I was using those maps as a reference point. If it's arabia and you're losing to early rushes, you can try walling your base with pallisades early on, and then stone walls if possible. That's the easy and quick solution, they should buy you enough time to get to get an army of your own skirms and archers ready; or enough time to get to castle age; or to build a tower where they might attack from. When you reach castle age you don't have to try and get to imperial age to get onagers, in castle age if you're just up against xbows, then the basic mangonels should be enough to fend them off, just need some nice shots on them. If there's not too many xbows you can go for a combination of kts with all their armor upgrades and mangonels. Walls and towers are to buy you time, so maybe you'll need to get a few villagers on stone a bit early to be able to afford them. Of course this isn't ideal, but the other option is to watch a few tutorials on youtube about a build order that will help you fast castle or archer rush better, study it and then practice it with the ai. don't finish the game, just play for 10-15 minutes learning how you want to setup your economy, and then start over again haha boring but worth it. what's your rating on HD?
24Eagle11 I recently started playing online, I keep going up and down around 1620. I watched some casted games and follow Viper, but other than that I'm just trying to learn from my mistakes. I'm pretty decent on Black Forrest, but I tend to have bad eco when I have to defend too much no matter the cost of the units/walls. I can't take the time pressure and I guess I need a solution to Vikings in general. Their unit combination is causing me troubles, I can't get to equal numbers as enemy and when I do, I'm either behind on economy or have a bad matchup. Also, Knight line is way too expensive in my experience, since early it doesn't really beat mass crossbows and there is no Imperial Age for me (I'm pretty much done by that point).
Thank you for advice though.
Why you play the conquers exp.?
probably cause it has the best players
wow, saved me the trouble of looking for castle delete proof and uploaded it yourself! gg
just saw it around 13:00, instantly Went to comment section hehe
Following that game, Viper decided to take a tutorial (watch his latest upload). LOL man
war is hell
please tel me how to play aoe2hd online
Can i meet you in Gameranger? Greetings from Argentina
Hahaha this was soo good
i was about to be angry that you started mid game then i realized it was part two. XD im dumb. ignore me.
Viper I dare you to play without keyboard, just using your mouse
He did it already
watch?v=4mvfDLg1A0A
okay, thanks:)
he should play keyboard only, no mouse (numpad-mouse ftw!)
I like that one :D
Never had a doubt lmfao
wow gg
111111111111111111111111111 wtf man and in the end you were not even trying
Torilla tavataan!
First