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I'm a sucker for the Master sets, regardless of how often they release. they're the only sealed product I buy, I love drafting them, and I very much appreciate what they do to the secondary market.
TheMagicManSam my issue with these masters sets is that we have the ugly new card frame on these cards. I feel like the full blue (bottom not black) border on cards like cryptic command was much more pleasing in context with the color identity of the card and then to amplify the artwork. New border black cards incidentally don't bother me as much. Not to mention the classic feel of older more iconic cards like mana drain with great art and card frame combined will keep me buying older versions instead of these reprints
We cracked an amazing box today with friends: Mana Drain Flusterstorm (FOIL) Thoughtseize Magus of the Moon Serra Ascendant Primeval Titan Auriok Champion 2x Mishra's Bauble Knight of the Reliquary Supreme Verdict
Pauper getting really popular would be Wizards worse nightmare. If people are only playing with commons that massively reduces their profits. For that reason they will never release any pauper products.
Maro has been really clear that the 5 iconic creature types are dragons, angels, hydras, demons, and sphinxes. But I don't understand why they would use internal jargon to name a public-facing set. The whole thing makes sense if you follow Mark's blog...But otherwise...
"Iconic" creatures are: Angels (White) Sphinxes (Blue) Demons (Black) Dragons (Red) Hydras (Green, they tried a lot of creature types for the color before that...I still personally prefer treefolks) "Characteristic" creatures are: Humans (White) Merfolks (Blue) Vampires/Zombies (Black, the only colour with officially two of them...dwarves where an experiment for white instead of the bit too much generic humans) Goblin (Red) Elves (Green) So "Iconic" Masters is on point. I think the problem is that not all players know the above distinction. This creatures' classification is mostly used internally at Wizards I suppose...I know of the terms only beacuse I followed Blogatog on a daily basis, and I still follow every day the articles on the mothership...but maybe I remember incorrectly and they where stated only on Maro's blog. I don't really know why on the booster packs there aren't images of the three most famous iconic creatures types together...ok with the pack with the angel, but then why an hydra and...Elesh Norn (it is a famous and strong card, but beside that...) instead of a dragon and a demon? In general I feel Iconic Master was a waste of a set. Do only Masters 25. I don't think a lot of people where like "I really wish there was a master set about iconic creatures!".
One thing I do like about this as a draft format is no one opening a planeswalker and simply dominating that night just because they were lucky enough to have opened said planeswalker in their pack but these drafts are prohibitively expensive so.... eh
Booster boxes are on eBay and online stores that equate to $6.50-$7.50 per pack... so WotC granted your wish. Now it is up to LGS's to actually do drafts at realistic prices (probably not happening). As such, buy your own packs to bring to drafts.
k98killer exactly. I didnt think I would have to show all the facts but here you go. For mm17 packs were $10 on the free market so LGS drafts were $40, the street cost of 4 packs with 1 going to prize pool. LGS's made money as they got packs for less. Iconic packs are about $7 so you would expect a draft to be about $30, but LGS's are still charging $40. I assume they are getting packs at the same price as mm17, but charging the same doesn't seem right. So get your packs for $28 and supply the 1x prize support and give the store $5.
Obviously I meant MSRP. LGS’s would actually make a reasonable profit if this was a case since they’d buy it from distributers for less or at least expect to.
7:00 - Professor, saying each box has an average of 3-5 mythics is disingenuous. Iconic masters boxes only have 24 packs, making the average a solid 3, and with variance you could see 2-4. Normal boxes have 36 packs, or 4.5 on average, so 3-5 would be more correct for a regular box.
It feels like this set has a lot of amazing edh staples and creatures that would make for solid commanders that haven't been seen/ printed for a long time and I feel like that might've been what they were going for.
Why wouldn't they start cranking these out? They're sets that require very little work to make because they're all reprints and they can charge twice as much for because people keep paying the price.
I'm not sure if you guys remember but the summer/fall of 2016 was over saturation hell from WOTC. April - shadows over innistrad, June - Eternal Masters, eldritch moon - july, conspiracy 2 - august, from the vault lore - august, kaladesh - september. I do admit that Iconic Masters and Unset 3 are too close together but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as summer/fall 2016.
Keep the over saturation coming. I'll be getting my copy's of bauble, visions, and foil Lowyrn Thoughtseize at a now lower price and that's a win for me and the rest of the Magic community.
Yea, I think the modern format should be cheaper as well, but the main cost is fetches and shocks. I aslo think they should slow down alittle, maybe do 2 or 3 a year.
Everyone always says "shocks are so pricey" When they are usually played as 1-2 ofs and most are cheaper than $15. Honestly there are still so many flying around from RTR days that they are hardly an issue. Not compared to fetches or cavern of souls or colonnade.
Richard Landgren We do sometimes, but they also have a very huge stock of singles and they price them depending on the client. So if we want to buy our cards at a decent price we can't really make a scene :/
What "Iconic" means to Wizards is the iconic creatures types for each colour: angels in white, sphinx in blue, demons in black, dragons in red, hydras in green. The creature types you listed are considered to be "characteristic" creature types IE vampires, elves, merfolk, goblins etc
Yeah, but it's a bad sign when you have to follow R&D Making Magic articles in order to understand the point of a product. Either they need to do a better job communicating that those are the iconic creature types, or just avoid explicitly referencing it.
@@samsong9288 If someone asked you, "What are the big, splashy creature types for each color?" what would you choose for blue or green? That's how wizards internally defines "iconic". I think their problem was they assumed the audience would understand a reference to their internal jargon.
Kalion Dexter we have exclusive commander sets... I think having modern and eternal formats separate gives the product a better concentration of what to target for printing and draft play... The one thing they may have gotten right is how they are doing commander products... Do not make them change it... They have many aspects to improve upon...
i mean, they basically do that every year with the commander pre-cons. On top of that what would be the point of Commander Masters if you couldnt draft it?
Donald McKenney the ones that aren't foil are probably not as impactful to what you are building in commander... It's a casual format that is usually multiplayer focused... Foil or not foil is not the reason to care about those types of printings... And you can have a foil proxy made if it matters that much... But keeping competitive formats in check and still fun is worth a larger devotion to attention than foil prints in casual formats...
Just got home from the release draft. Ended up playing Mardu Fliers (angels and dragons) with a life gain theme and had a blast. I suppose someone has probably already pointed this out, but if that's not the case, I'll do it here: Angels, Sphinxes, Demons, Dragons, and Hydras are the Iconic creature types of MtG. They're the big, splashy, exciting bomb creatures you'll usually want to see in your limited pool. Humans, Merfolk, Zombies/Vampires, Goblins, and Elves are referred to as the characteristic races of MtG. They're the creatures that usually serve as the bread-and-butter of their associated colors, and are recognizable humanoid fantasy creatures.
Yeah 3-5 is the actual distribution for regular 36 packs booster box, but these only contain 24 packs, so at a rate of 1 mythic in 8 packs it's only 3 mythics on average per box.
Sometimes it's ZERO... yeah, I wasn't happy with one of the boxes of MM2017 that I bought... Two fetches, no mythics, swore off ever buying Masters boxes again - I can draft Conspiracy far cheaper and if I want a power draft, that's what cubes are for.
At 11:32 we have the final conclusions, and at 12:15 the professor gives the grading. Maybe I can draft those with Jhoira after class. They look good. Those "praetors" are sick in constructed. Do NOT tell the headmaster I said that about phyrexians, please D:
This is an excellent video, and makes several important points. I had totally forgotten about Iconic Masters until I saw a Facebook status from Wizards proclaiming launch day. Before that, Wizards has just been banging on about that uninteresting unset for weeks. In any case, Iconic Masters doesn't appear to have much in the way of cards I want, so I probably will skip it totally. If it actually included iconic cards - by which I mean the reserved list - this would be the greatest Masters set ever. However, that ship has sailed. Roll on Rivals of Ixalan.
I think it was a way to reprint cards that are expensive that don’t see lots of play outside of casual formats. That’s why the praetors, teferi, austere command, avacyn, and similar casual powerhouses are in the set. I think cards like mana drain, cryptic command, and aether vial are included to make the product more appealing to a larger audience.
Mishra’s bauble now sees play in multiple modern decks. Lantern control, kci, and multiple variants of death’s shadow. Also sees play in legacy bomberman.
I see the thumbnail with the question on it and immediately click on it, awaiting the good old "manyyy magic the gathering players ask the question..." - I love it!
When I seen Iconic Masters at a comic book shop that I go to I decided to get a whole box. I didn't realize till later that many boxes online were going from $200 to even $160. I feel regretful that I went with a impulse buy only because of the great deals online being so much lower then MSRP which I paid gladly at the time of purchase. Yet I'm still happy I got them. I'm happy That I was able to add more cards to my collection especially since they were cards I was interested in collecting. On the other side of things I still made out like a bandit because not only did I pull a mana drain, but my overall rares and mythic value ended up being well over $400 dollars worth!
Just now I am realizing how lucky I was opening a Iconic Masters box. Just checked the price list and I basically got my money back. Got a Mana Drain, Horizon Canopy, Thoughtseize, Flusterstorm, Ancestral Vision, Archangel of Thun, Serra Ascendant, Avacyn Angel of Hope, Kiki Jiki, Glimpse the Unthinkable,... All top ranged cards and the pack was available for a 120€ I'm really happy right now, cause at the time I had no idea what I was buying :D
I'm drafting this set tonight, hoping to having fun with it. If I can get one or two of the cards I'm looking for in the set, even better. But I remember your advice prof : better to buy singles than cracking packs !
There is a particular brick and mortar store I order boxes from online(they are a few states away) selling for 179, free shipping. Now, I was at my LGS picking up some singles and decided to buy 3 boosters(they had a 3 for 25 deal) on a whim. I got two rares not worth much of anything(one was a land the other was "wrath of the gods" I think it is called, theros reprint worth less than a dollar) and an Ob Nixilis. A few other commons and uncommons I liked. I doubt I will buy any more unless the price comes down further. IMO, this set was made for one reason: Avacyn. Maybe an honorable mention to Kokusho. Star City Games, arguably the largest inventory of magic singles on the planet, and assuredly having a line of communication with Wizards as such, could not keep Avacyn in stock. Occasional shortages of Kokusho due to EDH also, but mostly IMO a reprint of Avacyn was being heavily requested. I honestly think this entire set was printed to put a select few cards back into print to supply the market, with the rest being filler reprints. When you have a masters set with numerous bulk rares in it, it kinda makes you wonder.
Bought my first booster box ever..it was this set. Major pulls: consecrated sphinx, Archangel of Thune, Magus of the moon(foil) and Cryptic Command(foil). Rares, mythics and foils came out to $214.46 worth. I was really happy even if I hadn't gotten my moneys worth.
As of 11/18/2017 at 8 AM, you can get a box of Iconic Masters on TCGplayer for $167.94, shipping included. Going off that price, it's actually not terribly difficult to play the booster box game with this set
i was debating not drafting this set, but you have convinced me to do so other wise! i welcome the bulk rares and 0-3 coming my way but at least i will have fun!
I think it would be cool if Wizards lined up the modern masters releases with the Pro Tours featuring modern constructed, so they could draft the modern masters sets at the pro tour.
I've only recently started watching Profs videos, but I *love* how honest he is and how objective he tries to be. He's neither shilling for WotC like a lot of channels nor spewing constant vitriol (Desolator...)
I think there's two separate things to consider with reprints, though. It's not just raw price, but availability - at least where I am, all the local stores only carry Standard-legal singles and a handful of Commander/Modern staples, rapidly dumping sets as they get out of Standard. Sure, I can (and do) order online, but I like the accessibility of buying cards where I play with cards. Quite a few of the rares in Iconic Masters are not highly-priced, but being reprinted makes them easier to acquire. I agree Iconic Masters is underwhelming but as a Commander player, almost every rare in the set is worthwhile and most of the uncommons as well. Not to mention the Future Sight land cycle in regular borders, new art for two of the Commands, etc, etc. Yes, it's best to get singles if you can, but SOMEONE has to open packs if you want to buy singles - so I'd say this is at least a decent choice to draft with.
Thanks Professor! I was on my way out of work to buy a box when I saw this posted. I'm still gonna buy it, but now I'm going to trade in some cards instead of pay outright. Get that box price down to value.
On release date my lgs had a iconic masters draft for a fnm side event. I went 4-0 with a defenders deck. Five door keepers, two fog bank, two mnemonic wall, and two vent sentinel. Then covering the rest of my creatures with fliers, one Jace's phantasm, two illutiory angels, and two phantom monsters. Lost only one game from all the rounds. Turns out 0/4 creatures block around 60 to 75% of all creature in the set and live, and fog bank can take care of the rest till you get your vent sentinel or fliers on board to finish your opponent off. Funny thing I built the deck with a sub mill theme but used door keepers ability only twice the entire event.
iconic masters was by far one of my favorite products to come out since conspiracy. it has been incredible for my commander decks and my cube. and I was able to play in a draft as well that gave us a fun environment right out of the packs.
Hey Prof! We did an Iconic Masters draft this FNM. We were all pretty pumped until we started to crack packs. We had a lot of packs with double uncommon in them. Like, in a single pack opened, there were two Serra Angels. This happened MULTIPLE times over MANY packs. Weird? Weird.
Bought a box for about $206 after tax. Drafted it and it was amazingly fun! Definitely recommend getting a box to draft with or even turn into a draftable cube!
Great video, and that's exactly what I thought. Whenever I see a block sold below MSRP, I immediately think that it will be a great buy for any draft event. Because let's face it people that play draft are more there to have fun rather than aiming for that one particular card.
I only played 1 draft of Iconic Masters, but it was a great time the deck archetypes are very fun to cohere to, but it doesn't force you to, one guy went 3-0 with a black/green mill control deck I wasn't even able to get value from my pulls (until I got my prize packs), my deck didn't have a single rare, but I went 2-1 with dimir mill by the end of the draft, everyone who played walked away satisfied with value, as well as having play sets of really good commons and uncommons in the set
This set just feels like a way for them to reprint some $10+ cards, which is great. I don't know why we're complaining when you can now buy Sheoldred for half her market price for example lol
I mean... That's been WotC's definition of Iconic since (I wanna say) like, 10th edition. The creature type for that color that is disproportionately used for that color's big, bomby creatures. I remember reading some articles about how angels, demons, and dragons were home-runs, but they were still trying to work it out for green and blue. Eventually they settled on sphinges and hydras because most of the other potential creature types for those colors tended to get diluted with creatures at lower cmcs (beasts, elementals, serpents, etc.).
I didn’t even know about this release until I watched the new Game Knights episode. The hype for the next Un-set washed away all mention of this master set for me. By the way, you were great on Game Knights, Prof. My favorite episode yet.
I dont usually buy cards from Target, but yesterday they had a one-day 25% off sale on toys (including mtg) plus my 10% employee discount plus my 5% redcard, i walked away with 6 packs with a 40% discount
Just a note: goblins, merfolk, zombies, etc. are considered by wizards as “characteristic” races, the “iconic” races are the big rare fatties of the color such as dragons, angels, hydras, sphinxes, and demons
Hey Prof, I really enjoy watching your show and I'm very the player advice you are giving. I also enjoyed your appearances in Game Knights and in the podcast. You were hilarious! Currently - inspired by your wall - I am searching for posters / huge prints of Magic Card Images and would like to know if you have an insider tip.
2:08 "For those unaware, Iconic Masters was available for Sealed Constructed Play at Hascon." Sealed constructed does not exist. Either you are playing sealed by opening boosters and building a deck from that or playing a Constructed deck format.
Here in Sweden, Iconic masters boxes have lowered prices wich is 1500 kr or about 165 dollars. The upcoming Ultimate masters will cost 3800 kr or a whopping 422 dollars and there are complains in the US about expensive 300 dollar boxes. Sweden is most likely within the top 3 most expensive countries in the world.
Is it worth it to play paper magic vs online? Besides the draw of playing face to face and the feel of sleeved cards between your fingers and the sound of endless shuffling ... is it worth the cost ? Especially if your closet place to play is a half hour away?
I pre-ordered a box for around USD153. Hope I get something nice out of it, but I'm going to spend many happy nights drafting a few sealed games with my son once I get round to collecting it from my local game store.
Have 2 boxes one for 179.99 and one for 184.99 from my LGS saving them for drafts. Really good rare slots which is something i prefer to the mythic heavy set.
Thanks WotC for acknowledging that some MTG players don't live near any LGSs, and that selling them at places like Wal-Mart gives them a chance to purchase them. BTW they are only available as draft packs,and have a cost of $32 a piece. So I'm pretty sure LGSs don't have much to worry about.
I live in Europe and there are online sellers that are offering boxes for 146 euros. My LGS got 10 boxes I think. Only 3 were bought. Shop owner is going to use rest for drafting, because no regular players want them... This is the worst time for this set to come out. We have: unstable, from the vault: transform, then Christmas time, then RIX and new masters set in 4 months. No one is going to spend 240 euros for somewhat sub-par product. Consider this: if you would buy a present for a good friend, would you buy this or from the vault? I have to agree that the best thing about this is that for example Primeval Titan now costs 5 euros and still going down fast. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger was 15+ euro card going up. Now 6 euros. Yeah... Some people are going to bitch about this for a long time, however as a player I'm happy.
Honestly all I want is Mana Drain, Ancestral Visions, and Flusterstorm. Buying all of those would be cheaper/around the same as a box so I'm just gonna do that. Plus looks like getting Mana Drain is incredibly hard. I'd want Thoughtseize if I didn't have a Theros set. Also as far as the "Iconic" controversy it's the players own fault they thought it'd all be ABUR not Wizards. We have the iconc Praetors from New Phyrexia, the lands from Futuresight which Horizon Canopy at one point became more expensive than a Revised Savannah and I'd say that's pretty iconic, you've got Mana Drain an iconic card of it's set, Ancestral Visions which I forget what set it was from, Thoughtseize was one of the biggest if not the biggest card from Lorwyn. It's the same thing that happens with just about any franchise. People hear "Iconic" and only think of the very first. Like Mighty Morphin with Power Rangers or G1 with Transformers. Players played themselves.
At 2:42 one of the guys has a picture of the Sword of Dungeons and Dragons, the mythic from Unstable. But that set wasn't out by November was it? Am I crazy??
I feel the only people who really know what the "Iconic" creatures are are those that spend a fair bit of time on blogatog. Goblins, Elves, Merfolk, Vampires, and Zombies are the characteristic types for the colors. However, even given the "Iconic" theme the set is less Iconic Masters and more Dragon Masters. The set has 16 dragons, 3 of which are commons. Angels have 9, 2 at common. Demon has 6 and Sphinx and Hydra have 3 and none of them have a common. Mark often says if your theme isn't at common it isn't your theme and the is super true here.
Hey my guy, I'm a recent magic player, started buying packs around Kaladesh. I got lucky with getting Masterpiece cards one per box since my first box and well I'm rambling now but I pre-ordered this set hoping to get a Mana drain (dumb strategy, I know) and I got absolutely hosed on that box. I got a horizon canopy, two dumb praetors as mythics and some other hot garbage and now I'm just mad because the box is selling for $20 less than I paid for pre-order. This is all very frustrating for someone who only opens packs for casual play, never been to a draft or FNM and I just feel violated by the shit they reprinted and sold me. At least with all the MM3 packs I bought chasing Tarmogoyf (which after 3+ boxes worth of packs I haven't gotten 😆, three Griselbrand tho wow thanks) I got nearly a playset of all the fetch cycles including 5 scalding tarns. This set was printed entirely too close to MM3 and with no real direction. I just wish I could get my $180 dollars back. Not to mention the card printing errors Wizards can't legally acknowledge they are having problems with (Heavy-inked miscut taco foils) I'm done
It's actually good that they reprinted ancestral vision, cryptic command, thoughtseize and others alike that used to to be over 25$ and now droped to aroun 15$
I am still on the fence of buying one of these packs. When I was shopping yesterday I shocked to see them but for about $10 I just couldn't jump in and buy a pack. However, my favorite magic shop had plenty of iconic masters bulk for sell. I felt like buying some bulk just for the sake of it. I guess I'll save up a ten spot for a pack next week. Also I was so sure that I couldn't find them in Japanese but Wizards printed a Japanese version. There is so much they don't print internationally.....
On the day of this video's release, there are plenty of sealed booster boxes on sale on ebay for just under $170. Still a little too rich for my blood, but if it gets much lower....
I just ended up purchasing a Box for $190 USD ($250 CDN after everything). Way cheaper than buying at my LGS (Unfortunately they are $320CDN). It's going to be fun to draft with friends. As for the singles, I'm probably going to throw down for quite a few playsets (As stuff like Ascendants, Auroks and others will be extremely cheap).
On my way to see how much a box costs me at my LGS. If its absurdly high, I will buy 12 packs instead. Wish me luck. As an aside, i will buy 3 packs of Modern Masters 17 and Eternal Masters, and do a direct comparison for a giggle or two.
Oh they just put that from the vault out full of walkers also plus IMO they are saving the last few valuable reprint walkers for the upcoming anniversary masters set. 100% I expect to see Ugin in the Masters 25 set as one of the expensive chase mythic cards.
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Tolarian Community College TCG player has them for $170 a box. But the local game store has them for 240 I love them but NO.
Incredible video. Great analysis. You're the best, Prof!
Awesome!!! Thanks so much for reviewing this prof...
SMASH DAT LIKE
Hey proff. I met you at hascon and totally agree that the sealed format is where it's at for this set. It really is a lot of fun
I'm a sucker for the Master sets, regardless of how often they release.
they're the only sealed product I buy, I love drafting them, and I very much appreciate what they do to the secondary market.
Ha, agreed, I'm the same. I only buy the Masters Sets usually as they have the stuff I'm looking for to play.
TheMagicManSam my issue with these masters sets is that we have the ugly new card frame on these cards. I feel like the full blue (bottom not black) border on cards like cryptic command was much more pleasing in context with the color identity of the card and then to amplify the artwork. New border black cards incidentally don't bother me as much. Not to mention the classic feel of older more iconic cards like mana drain with great art and card frame combined will keep me buying older versions instead of these reprints
Comet storm as a mythic in mm15 AND 17
Answer: Yes. But not if you're building a 40 card life gain deck against two mill decks...
Josh T loooooool
We cracked an amazing box today with friends:
Mana Drain
Flusterstorm (FOIL)
Thoughtseize
Magus of the Moon
Serra Ascendant
Primeval Titan
Auriok Champion
2x Mishra's Bauble
Knight of the Reliquary
Supreme Verdict
We need pauper masters
With $1.50 packs
Wizards would charge $8 packs because it’s a limited release and was designed specifically to be drafted.
Making the "best" pauper cards rarer in packs ( not by rarity obviusly)
Well, if wizards ever acknowledged the format than yeah. Could be an online format though.
Pauper getting really popular would be Wizards worse nightmare. If people are only playing with commons that massively reduces their profits. For that reason they will never release any pauper products.
"Other places may have it lower" meaning "I can't specifically say tcgplayer has it for cheaper than our sponsor"
Mutlple stores near me are selling it for well below $200
I picked mine online at 170.91 right before they jumped a bit
Mike Davis I just got one for 168
140 in Europe...
Riraito well then you gotta convert from Euros :P
Maro has been really clear that the 5 iconic creature types are dragons, angels, hydras, demons, and sphinxes. But I don't understand why they would use internal jargon to name a public-facing set. The whole thing makes sense if you follow Mark's blog...But otherwise...
This, so much this. WotC really dropped the ball on this one.
"Iconic" creatures are:
Angels (White)
Sphinxes (Blue)
Demons (Black)
Dragons (Red)
Hydras (Green, they tried a lot of creature types for the color before that...I still personally prefer treefolks)
"Characteristic" creatures are:
Humans (White)
Merfolks (Blue)
Vampires/Zombies (Black, the only colour with officially two of them...dwarves where an experiment for white instead of the bit too much generic humans)
Goblin (Red)
Elves (Green)
So "Iconic" Masters is on point. I think the problem is that not all players know the above distinction. This creatures' classification is mostly used internally at Wizards I suppose...I know of the terms only beacuse I followed Blogatog on a daily basis, and I still follow every day the articles on the mothership...but maybe I remember incorrectly and they where stated only on Maro's blog.
I don't really know why on the booster packs there aren't images of the three most famous iconic creatures types together...ok with the pack with the angel, but then why an hydra and...Elesh Norn (it is a famous and strong card, but beside that...) instead of a dragon and a demon?
In general I feel Iconic Master was a waste of a set. Do only Masters 25. I don't think a lot of people where like "I really wish there was a master set about iconic creatures!".
I am not in the set, so it is not worth it.
One thing I do like about this as a draft format is no one opening a planeswalker and simply dominating that night just because they were lucky enough to have opened said planeswalker in their pack but these drafts are prohibitively expensive so.... eh
Honestly, this set is better than the doomsayers are stating. However, they are correct in the fact, that there is simply too many sets being printed.
Wizards has to bring master sets back down to $7.99 a packs, since they’re not so special any more.
Booster boxes are on eBay and online stores that equate to $6.50-$7.50 per pack... so WotC granted your wish. Now it is up to LGS's to actually do drafts at realistic prices (probably not happening). As such, buy your own packs to bring to drafts.
Jordan Meyers its not about special. Then run out of cards to reprint to excuse the price.
James Forinash LGSes have to cover the cost of prize packs somehow.
k98killer exactly. I didnt think I would have to show all the facts but here you go. For mm17 packs were $10 on the free market so LGS drafts were $40, the street cost of 4 packs with 1 going to prize pool. LGS's made money as they got packs for less. Iconic packs are about $7 so you would expect a draft to be about $30, but LGS's are still charging $40. I assume they are getting packs at the same price as mm17, but charging the same doesn't seem right. So get your packs for $28 and supply the 1x prize support and give the store $5.
Obviously I meant MSRP. LGS’s would actually make a reasonable profit if this was a case since they’d buy it from distributers for less or at least expect to.
Some much needed reprints here like Horizon Canopy, Mishra's Bauble and Aether Vial. Always helpful to have more in circulation.
I opened one of these packs this morning and pulled a floppy taco out of it.
at least you got your money's worth lol
Manikin Magnus Glad you asked! Yes! It was a super foil floppy taco pull. So shiny that Little Timmy went blind. Oh. Well.
Was there a Mana drain inside?
7:00 - Professor, saying each box has an average of 3-5 mythics is disingenuous. Iconic masters boxes only have 24 packs, making the average a solid 3, and with variance you could see 2-4. Normal boxes have 36 packs, or 4.5 on average, so 3-5 would be more correct for a regular box.
I'd call it an oversight rather than disingenuous. I'm sure he knows how the math works out.
Thyeggman thanks for the math; either Mana drain or wallet burn
Man every time I look at masters sets all I think is how sweet they'd be at regular magic prices and if they weren't limited print run.
Box at 200$ CAD near me for release. That's like 160$ USD!
Whoa. Snap that up.
Too bad I work for a competitor...
Where is that?
Mathieu Leclerc Québec City, l'arène des dieux
Wear a disguise and you will be fine. Now go... Buy all the iconic masters!!!!
It feels like this set has a lot of amazing edh staples and creatures that would make for solid commanders that haven't been seen/ printed for a long time and I feel like that might've been what they were going for.
Why wouldn't they start cranking these out? They're sets that require very little work to make because they're all reprints and they can charge twice as much for because people keep paying the price.
I'm not sure if you guys remember but the summer/fall of 2016 was over saturation hell from WOTC. April - shadows over innistrad, June - Eternal Masters, eldritch moon - july, conspiracy 2 - august, from the vault lore - august, kaladesh - september. I do admit that Iconic Masters and Unset 3 are too close together but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as summer/fall 2016.
Keep the over saturation coming. I'll be getting my copy's of bauble, visions, and foil Lowyrn Thoughtseize at a now lower price and that's a win for me and the rest of the Magic community.
I hope they keep pumping out these Master sets. I don't want any modern staple to be more than 25 dollars. Keep um' coming WotC.
Yea, I think the modern format should be cheaper as well, but the main cost is fetches and shocks. I aslo think they should slow down alittle, maybe do 2 or 3 a year.
Everyone always says "shocks are so pricey" When they are usually played as 1-2 ofs and most are cheaper than $15. Honestly there are still so many flying around from RTR days that they are hardly an issue. Not compared to fetches or cavern of souls or colonnade.
My LGS is selling Iconic Masters for about $160 for a box and $8 a pack
Damn... Mine is going the full greed route by selling the packs at 13€ each (~$15)
arenkai don't buy their products, and encourage your friends not to. When you guys go in for events, express displeasure about the price gouging.
Richard Landgren We do sometimes, but they also have a very huge stock of singles and they price them depending on the client. So if we want to buy our cards at a decent price we can't really make a scene :/
then get fuk :)
Richard Landgren There is one shop in my entire city. I have no choice but to get ripped of at $16us a pack
What "Iconic" means to Wizards is the iconic creatures types for each colour: angels in white, sphinx in blue, demons in black, dragons in red, hydras in green. The creature types you listed are considered to be "characteristic" creature types IE vampires, elves, merfolk, goblins etc
Yeah, but it's a bad sign when you have to follow R&D Making Magic articles in order to understand the point of a product.
Either they need to do a better job communicating that those are the iconic creature types, or just avoid explicitly referencing it.
How in the world are sphinx or hydras "iconic"
@@samsong9288 If someone asked you, "What are the big, splashy creature types for each color?" what would you choose for blue or green?
That's how wizards internally defines "iconic". I think their problem was they assumed the audience would understand a reference to their internal jargon.
Commander Masters when ?????
Kalion Dexter we have exclusive commander sets... I think having modern and eternal formats separate gives the product a better concentration of what to target for printing and draft play... The one thing they may have gotten right is how they are doing commander products... Do not make them change it... They have many aspects to improve upon...
i mean, they basically do that every year with the commander pre-cons. On top of that what would be the point of Commander Masters if you couldnt draft it?
They can also stick the more expensive cards in Eternal Masters to supplement what ends up in the Commander decks.
Many of you are missing the point, there are plenty of commander cards that don't have foils!
Donald McKenney the ones that aren't foil are probably not as impactful to what you are building in commander... It's a casual format that is usually multiplayer focused... Foil or not foil is not the reason to care about those types of printings... And you can have a foil proxy made if it matters that much... But keeping competitive formats in check and still fun is worth a larger devotion to attention than foil prints in casual formats...
That's more like it Prof! This is the content we come to enjoy! Great job on "Game Knights" too! Very entertaining, and yes mill is a thing...
EDH Masters
I can finally afford og art thoughtseizes-masters
Just got home from the release draft. Ended up playing Mardu Fliers (angels and dragons) with a life gain theme and had a blast.
I suppose someone has probably already pointed this out, but if that's not the case, I'll do it here:
Angels, Sphinxes, Demons, Dragons, and Hydras are the Iconic creature types of MtG. They're the big, splashy, exciting bomb creatures you'll usually want to see in your limited pool.
Humans, Merfolk, Zombies/Vampires, Goblins, and Elves are referred to as the characteristic races of MtG. They're the creatures that usually serve as the bread-and-butter of their associated colors, and are recognizable humanoid fantasy creatures.
5:13 The theme for this set is overpriced disappointment.
Saw 7 people walk out of draft with well over the cost of admission, 2 of which netted $250 in profit alone
I also saw 4 people walk away with 3 jank rares while the youngest kid at the table get's a foil vial and a mana drain.
a 7 year old at my lgs got an invention mox opal in he's second EVER boosterpack. *walks away as if this is an achievement*
Definitely Iconic of Wizards right now.
3-5 mythics per box? it felt like 3 and sometimes 2
Yeah 3-5 is the actual distribution for regular 36 packs booster box, but these only contain 24 packs, so at a rate of 1 mythic in 8 packs it's only 3 mythics on average per box.
Sometimes it's ZERO... yeah, I wasn't happy with one of the boxes of MM2017 that I bought... Two fetches, no mythics, swore off ever buying Masters boxes again - I can draft Conspiracy far cheaper and if I want a power draft, that's what cubes are for.
All I want is the Cryptic Commands
At 11:32 we have the final conclusions, and at 12:15 the professor gives the grading.
Maybe I can draft those with Jhoira after class. They look good. Those "praetors" are sick in constructed.
Do NOT tell the headmaster I said that about phyrexians, please D:
This is an excellent video, and makes several important points. I had totally forgotten about Iconic Masters until I saw a Facebook status from Wizards proclaiming launch day.
Before that, Wizards has just been banging on about that uninteresting unset for weeks. In any case, Iconic Masters doesn't appear to have much in the way of cards I want, so I probably will skip it totally.
If it actually included iconic cards - by which I mean the reserved list - this would be the greatest Masters set ever.
However, that ship has sailed. Roll on Rivals of Ixalan.
I think it was a way to reprint cards that are expensive that don’t see lots of play outside of casual formats. That’s why the praetors, teferi, austere command, avacyn, and similar casual powerhouses are in the set. I think cards like mana drain, cryptic command, and aether vial are included to make the product more appealing to a larger audience.
Mishra’s bauble now sees play in multiple modern decks. Lantern control, kci, and multiple variants of death’s shadow. Also sees play in legacy bomberman.
Hey I'm in the pic at 2:32! Hascon was super fun!
I see the thumbnail with the question on it and immediately click on it, awaiting the good old "manyyy magic the gathering players ask the question..." - I love it!
was thinking about buying a box to crack packs for profit, but now I know better after watching this video. Thanks Professor!
When I seen Iconic Masters at a comic book shop that I go to I decided to get a whole box. I didn't realize till later that many boxes online were going from $200 to even $160. I feel regretful that I went with a impulse buy only because of the great deals online being so much lower then MSRP which I paid gladly at the time of purchase.
Yet I'm still happy I got them. I'm happy That I was able to add more cards to my collection especially since they were cards I was interested in collecting. On the other side of things I still made out like a bandit because not only did I pull a mana drain, but my overall rares and mythic value ended up being well over $400 dollars worth!
Just now I am realizing how lucky I was opening a Iconic Masters box. Just checked the price list and I basically got my money back. Got a Mana Drain, Horizon Canopy, Thoughtseize, Flusterstorm, Ancestral Vision, Archangel of Thun, Serra Ascendant, Avacyn Angel of Hope, Kiki Jiki, Glimpse the Unthinkable,... All top ranged cards and the pack was available for a 120€ I'm really happy right now, cause at the time I had no idea what I was buying :D
Thanks as always for your keen insights, Professor!
I'm drafting this set tonight, hoping to having fun with it.
If I can get one or two of the cards I'm looking for in the set, even better. But I remember your advice prof : better to buy singles than cracking packs !
Yup, and that's why I never draft at my LGS: they redistribute rares :/
There is a particular brick and mortar store I order boxes from online(they are a few states away) selling for 179, free shipping.
Now, I was at my LGS picking up some singles and decided to buy 3 boosters(they had a 3 for 25 deal) on a whim. I got two rares not worth much of anything(one was a land the other was "wrath of the gods" I think it is called, theros reprint worth less than a dollar) and an Ob Nixilis. A few other commons and uncommons I liked. I doubt I will buy any more unless the price comes down further.
IMO, this set was made for one reason: Avacyn. Maybe an honorable mention to Kokusho. Star City Games, arguably the largest inventory of magic singles on the planet, and assuredly having a line of communication with Wizards as such, could not keep Avacyn in stock. Occasional shortages of Kokusho due to EDH also, but mostly IMO a reprint of Avacyn was being heavily requested. I honestly think this entire set was printed to put a select few cards back into print to supply the market, with the rest being filler reprints. When you have a masters set with numerous bulk rares in it, it kinda makes you wonder.
Bought my first booster box ever..it was this set. Major pulls: consecrated sphinx, Archangel of Thune, Magus of the moon(foil) and Cryptic Command(foil). Rares, mythics and foils came out to $214.46 worth. I was really happy even if I hadn't gotten my moneys worth.
As of 11/18/2017 at 8 AM, you can get a box of Iconic Masters on TCGplayer for $167.94, shipping included. Going off that price, it's actually not terribly difficult to play the booster box game with this set
This video is so helpful! I love the calculations. Such clarity
i was debating not drafting this set, but you have convinced me to do so other wise! i welcome the bulk rares and 0-3 coming my way but at least i will have fun!
I think it would be cool if Wizards lined up the modern masters releases with the Pro Tours featuring modern constructed, so they could draft the modern masters sets at the pro tour.
I've only recently started watching Profs videos, but I *love* how honest he is and how objective he tries to be. He's neither shilling for WotC like a lot of channels nor spewing constant vitriol (Desolator...)
Fun Fact: the Prof's main MSRP point is hilarious in the rear-view, when Black Friday/Cyber Monday had IM boxes selling for $139 or better!
isn't 3-5 mythics the average for a 36 pack box?
Kevin Chen mm sets are 24 packs?
I wish the professor was present in the next brainstorming session of WoTC for the next MTG precon sets :)
I think there's two separate things to consider with reprints, though. It's not just raw price, but availability - at least where I am, all the local stores only carry Standard-legal singles and a handful of Commander/Modern staples, rapidly dumping sets as they get out of Standard. Sure, I can (and do) order online, but I like the accessibility of buying cards where I play with cards.
Quite a few of the rares in Iconic Masters are not highly-priced, but being reprinted makes them easier to acquire. I agree Iconic Masters is underwhelming but as a Commander player, almost every rare in the set is worthwhile and most of the uncommons as well. Not to mention the Future Sight land cycle in regular borders, new art for two of the Commands, etc, etc. Yes, it's best to get singles if you can, but SOMEONE has to open packs if you want to buy singles - so I'd say this is at least a decent choice to draft with.
Very good video. Congrats professor. Watching from Brazil!!
At least we are seeing reprints on some cards that need it (though possibly not as many as were needed), but that is still good.
Thanks Professor! I was on my way out of work to buy a box when I saw this posted. I'm still gonna buy it, but now I'm going to trade in some cards instead of pay outright. Get that box price down to value.
On release date my lgs had a iconic masters draft for a fnm side event. I went 4-0 with a defenders deck. Five door keepers, two fog bank, two mnemonic wall, and two vent sentinel. Then covering the rest of my creatures with fliers, one Jace's phantasm, two illutiory angels, and two phantom monsters. Lost only one game from all the rounds. Turns out 0/4 creatures block around 60 to 75% of all creature in the set and live, and fog bank can take care of the rest till you get your vent sentinel or fliers on board to finish your opponent off. Funny thing I built the deck with a sub mill theme but used door keepers ability only twice the entire event.
iconic masters was by far one of my favorite products to come out since conspiracy. it has been incredible for my commander decks and my cube. and I was able to play in a draft as well that gave us a fun environment right out of the packs.
Still $200 at my LGS. Draft is $45. Wonder how many takers for either? Will find out at FNM!
Hey Prof! We did an Iconic Masters draft this FNM. We were all pretty pumped until we started to crack packs. We had a lot of packs with double uncommon in them. Like, in a single pack opened, there were two Serra Angels. This happened MULTIPLE times over MANY packs. Weird? Weird.
Big Poppa Prof has been at it, lately. Keep up the informative work!
Bought a box for about $206 after tax. Drafted it and it was amazingly fun! Definitely recommend getting a box to draft with or even turn into a draftable cube!
Great video, and that's exactly what I thought. Whenever I see a block sold below MSRP, I immediately think that it will be a great buy for any draft event. Because let's face it people that play draft are more there to have fun rather than aiming for that one particular card.
I only played 1 draft of Iconic Masters, but it was a great time
the deck archetypes are very fun to cohere to, but it doesn't force you to, one guy went 3-0 with a black/green mill control deck
I wasn't even able to get value from my pulls (until I got my prize packs), my deck didn't have a single rare, but I went 2-1 with dimir mill
by the end of the draft, everyone who played walked away satisfied with value, as well as having play sets of really good commons and uncommons in the set
This set will help with some of my Commander decks.
This set just feels like a way for them to reprint some $10+ cards, which is great. I don't know why we're complaining when you can now buy Sheoldred for half her market price for example lol
Anas Kaadan Cuz there’s bigger cards to hit, no one is complaining over their $10 singles.
Thanks prof. Looking forward to the Booster Box game.
I mean... That's been WotC's definition of Iconic since (I wanna say) like, 10th edition. The creature type for that color that is disproportionately used for that color's big, bomby creatures. I remember reading some articles about how angels, demons, and dragons were home-runs, but they were still trying to work it out for green and blue. Eventually they settled on sphinges and hydras because most of the other potential creature types for those colors tended to get diluted with creatures at lower cmcs (beasts, elementals, serpents, etc.).
I didn’t even know about this release until I watched the new Game Knights episode. The hype for the next Un-set washed away all mention of this master set for me. By the way, you were great on Game Knights, Prof. My favorite episode yet.
Gosh, it would have been awesome if they printed Iconic Masters with the classic frames and classic art. Wow, that would have been really special.
I dont usually buy cards from Target, but yesterday they had a one-day 25% off sale on toys (including mtg) plus my 10% employee discount plus my 5% redcard, i walked away with 6 packs with a 40% discount
I have been trying to share the idea that Master sets should take player input on what to reprint and what should not be reprinted.
Just a note: goblins, merfolk, zombies, etc. are considered by wizards as “characteristic” races, the “iconic” races are the big rare fatties of the color such as dragons, angels, hydras, sphinxes, and demons
"Iconic Creature Types" have been a thing and have not changed in fifteen years, man.
Hey Prof, I really enjoy watching your show and I'm very the player advice you are giving. I also enjoyed your appearances in Game Knights and in the podcast. You were hilarious! Currently - inspired by your wall - I am searching for posters / huge prints of Magic Card Images and would like to know if you have an insider tip.
2:08 "For those unaware, Iconic Masters was available for Sealed Constructed Play at Hascon." Sealed constructed does not exist. Either you are playing sealed by opening boosters and building a deck from that or playing a Constructed deck format.
I’m definitely playing in the iconic masters sealed PPTQ tomorrow so I hope I can make my money’s worth!
Here in Sweden, Iconic masters boxes have lowered prices wich is 1500 kr or about 165 dollars. The upcoming Ultimate masters will cost 3800 kr or a whopping 422 dollars and there are complains in the US about expensive 300 dollar boxes. Sweden is most likely within the top 3 most expensive countries in the world.
Love the new art on Serra Ascendant
Is it worth it to play paper magic vs online? Besides the draw of playing face to face and the feel of sleeved cards between your fingers and the sound of endless shuffling ... is it worth the cost ? Especially if your closet place to play is a half hour away?
I pre-ordered a box for around USD153. Hope I get something nice out of it, but I'm going to spend many happy nights drafting a few sealed games with my son once I get round to collecting it from my local game store.
Have 2 boxes one for 179.99 and one for 184.99 from my LGS saving them for drafts. Really good rare slots which is something i prefer to the mythic heavy set.
Thanks WotC for acknowledging that some MTG players don't live near any LGSs, and that selling them at places like Wal-Mart gives them a chance to purchase them. BTW they are only available as draft packs,and have a cost of $32 a piece. So I'm pretty sure LGSs don't have much to worry about.
My LGS was doing draft for $18-- amazing value!!
Does anyone know of any good casual dragon decks, or do you think I should buy the commander ur dragon for the cards?
I live in Europe and there are online sellers that are offering boxes for 146 euros.
My LGS got 10 boxes I think. Only 3 were bought. Shop owner is going to use rest for drafting, because no regular players want them... This is the worst time for this set to come out. We have: unstable, from the vault: transform, then Christmas time, then RIX and new masters set in 4 months. No one is going to spend 240 euros for somewhat sub-par product.
Consider this: if you would buy a present for a good friend, would you buy this or from the vault?
I have to agree that the best thing about this is that for example Primeval Titan now costs 5 euros and still going down fast. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger was 15+ euro card going up. Now 6 euros. Yeah... Some people are going to bitch about this for a long time, however as a player I'm happy.
Honestly all I want is Mana Drain, Ancestral Visions, and Flusterstorm. Buying all of those would be cheaper/around the same as a box so I'm just gonna do that. Plus looks like getting Mana Drain is incredibly hard. I'd want Thoughtseize if I didn't have a Theros set.
Also as far as the "Iconic" controversy it's the players own fault they thought it'd all be ABUR not Wizards. We have the iconc Praetors from New Phyrexia, the lands from Futuresight which Horizon Canopy at one point became more expensive than a Revised Savannah and I'd say that's pretty iconic, you've got Mana Drain an iconic card of it's set, Ancestral Visions which I forget what set it was from, Thoughtseize was one of the biggest if not the biggest card from Lorwyn.
It's the same thing that happens with just about any franchise. People hear "Iconic" and only think of the very first. Like Mighty Morphin with Power Rangers or G1 with Transformers. Players played themselves.
Bingo.
Already cant' wait for the BOOSTER BOX GAME!
At 2:42 one of the guys has a picture of the Sword of Dungeons and Dragons, the mythic from Unstable. But that set wasn't out by November was it? Am I crazy??
I feel the only people who really know what the "Iconic" creatures are are those that spend a fair bit of time on blogatog. Goblins, Elves, Merfolk, Vampires, and Zombies are the characteristic types for the colors.
However, even given the "Iconic" theme the set is less Iconic Masters and more Dragon Masters. The set has 16 dragons, 3 of which are commons. Angels have 9, 2 at common. Demon has 6 and Sphinx and Hydra have 3 and none of them have a common. Mark often says if your theme isn't at common it isn't your theme and the is super true here.
Hey my guy, I'm a recent magic player, started buying packs around Kaladesh. I got lucky with getting Masterpiece cards one per box since my first box and well I'm rambling now but I pre-ordered this set hoping to get a Mana drain (dumb strategy, I know) and I got absolutely hosed on that box. I got a horizon canopy, two dumb praetors as mythics and some other hot garbage and now I'm just mad because the box is selling for $20 less than I paid for pre-order. This is all very frustrating for someone who only opens packs for casual play, never been to a draft or FNM and I just feel violated by the shit they reprinted and sold me. At least with all the MM3 packs I bought chasing Tarmogoyf (which after 3+ boxes worth of packs I haven't gotten 😆, three Griselbrand tho wow thanks) I got nearly a playset of all the fetch cycles including 5 scalding tarns. This set was printed entirely too close to MM3 and with no real direction. I just wish I could get my $180 dollars back. Not to mention the card printing errors Wizards can't legally acknowledge they are having problems with (Heavy-inked miscut taco foils) I'm done
It's actually good that they reprinted ancestral vision, cryptic command, thoughtseize and others alike that used to to be over 25$ and now droped to aroun 15$
That's a really, really nice jacket. Props for style...Or is it Profs for style
I am still on the fence of buying one of these packs. When I was shopping yesterday I shocked to see them but for about $10 I just couldn't jump in and buy a pack. However, my favorite magic shop had plenty of iconic masters bulk for sell. I felt like buying some bulk just for the sake of it. I guess I'll save up a ten spot for a pack next week. Also I was so sure that I couldn't find them in Japanese but Wizards printed a Japanese version. There is so much they don't print internationally.....
On the day of this video's release, there are plenty of sealed booster boxes on sale on ebay for just under $170. Still a little too rich for my blood, but if it gets much lower....
I just ended up purchasing a Box for $190 USD ($250 CDN after everything). Way cheaper than buying at my LGS (Unfortunately they are $320CDN). It's going to be fun to draft with friends.
As for the singles, I'm probably going to throw down for quite a few playsets (As stuff like Ascendants, Auroks and others will be extremely cheap).
On my way to see how much a box costs me at my LGS. If its absurdly high, I will buy 12 packs instead. Wish me luck. As an aside, i will buy 3 packs of Modern Masters 17 and Eternal Masters, and do a direct comparison for a giggle or two.
Many Magic: The Gathering players are broke this time of year.
AlphaBetaRudyInvestments i read that in his voice 😂
Oh they just put that from the vault out full of walkers also plus IMO they are saving the last few valuable reprint walkers for the upcoming anniversary masters set. 100% I expect to see Ugin in the Masters 25 set as one of the expensive chase mythic cards.
Elesh norn edh deck tech please!
Love the Masters sets. Can't get enough of them.