Get 4X The Power From Your Solar Panels! - TI Sunday
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2021
- Today we test out our solar panel reflector design. We start with an overview of possible reflector technologies and then compare two identical solar panels but one has the reflector panels installed.
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Yeah this always seems like a good idea with initial testing. But keep in mind that cell degradation increases dramatically when cell temp is increased. These panels are designed to work at the temperatures reached without reflectors. And connected to a load. Even leaving a panel out in the desert, open circuit, will be at a higher temperature than they are designed to work.
Bifacial panels are actually designed to work at higher temps and having a reflector on the back is great. And you will have normal cell degradation rates. Just ensure that there is convective flow under them. Bifacial panels may have a different temperature coefficient, but they still have reduced output at higher temperatures (as do all solar cells!). So lifting them off the mounting surface at least 3 feet is recommended from most sources.
I think reflectors are fantastic for mobile systems that are not outside 365 days a year, and/or if weight is an issue. You can become very creative by making lightweight reflectors. A roll up reflector and certain types of flex panels can work together in this way.
Fun video! Love your content. Been watching for years.
Funny I was just thinking of the vids you did on using reflectors to get more power and then I saw your comment.
Could you add some kind of radiator to the underside of the panel?
not only weight-wise, but it saves a lot of money making energy with them
you could have solar farms that'd be 3x cheaper if you were to quadruple its energy output, as you wouldn't need as much panels to do so
I guess it depends how much the reflectors reflect rather than absorb heat. If, as is suggested in the video, the type of reflectors used preferentially reflect mostly the spectrum used by the photovoltaic cells then maybe the cells wont get that much more additional heat. The reflectors would need to dissipate heat from the back of the reflector though rather than re-radiating it out at the solar panel. Perhaps that can be tested next by measuring the cell temperatures.
Like was said in the video, this could work great for places where the sun doesn't really rise much above the horizon during winter, like Canada or Finland. If the air is closer to freezing, and the power output isn't more than the panel is rated for, I'm sure the panel will be fine.
I was thinking that this could also work with panels that are mounted straight up, like on top of an RV. I could just put a reflector towards south, and compensate for the bad angle. I might experiement with something like a space blanket.
I'm a electric engineering teacher. Your demonstrations, classes and explanations are one of the best lectures I ever saw. My congratulations for all your dedication. And greetings from Brazil.
Thanks you!
@@TechIngredients I want you to quantify efficiency of expanded solar systems. To include not just power generated but power saved.
Please look at low line New York experiment.
If you could also consider the description and example of a modernized skyscraper, for which I emailed you.
If I may zoom and discuss that would be great.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
You can get panels that are designed to help mitigate partial shading, but even with one of those, this demonstration would be voided, because both panels are not experiencing the same input. Without the mirrors, both panels should have the same output and with one panel being shaded there's no way they can have the same output, even if this was one of those designed for shade. I want to point out that that doesn't mean that this doesn't work just that the results are not as dramatic as what you're making them out to be because that shaded panel is seriously hampered
@@better.better They where aware of and fixed the shading issue. They mention it in the annotations during the video.
@@TechIngredients.....great work., but please look at PV-T.,ie stripping the heat out of the panel..There is a very nice Turkish panel that has been made from the 70's.,pulling the heat off the back of the panel., and it can be purchased double glazed..There is a German copy..I do like your barn door approach.,as a camping.,we'll attended unit.......but as a lash down and run away.,not quite the beast..Have a look at Rosco.,makers of film gels to the film industry.,who also have a great line in mirror film on the roll.,but your item is likely to have greater longevity..
I love people with a practical approach rather than bookish knowledge. Thank you Sir
Thanks!
Both are needed. The bookish knowledge is where you start, and the practical engineering is how you implement it.
This teacher is a college professor? He knows more than anyone I've heard, he knows his tech. Excellent explanations in video on increasing efficiency in solar panels.😊
Thanks!
No, I'm not.
We covered this in our first livestream.
I've tried similar methods and, yes, it works, and it works great! While the additional heat does degrade them a bit quicker, you won't notice because they will be gone on the first windy day. A similar panel, on an easel in the yard, became an airplane for a short while and made a not so graceful landing into the bed of a pickup truck two blocks over. Tethers are a good thing.
That was my initial concern. Did the wind damage or fight with his design? Apparently so. The question then is how to windproof the moving mirrors. Perhaps a stand alone green house type of structure? Perhaps a different, heavier mirror syatem? I would not know, but it is very interesting.
Nah, you don’t need a tether, you just need some flight control software and a GPS!
@@HealthyDoubter Perforate the reflectors!
I’ll be an airplane one day
Add a turbine for a solar / wind hybrid system? 😎
Nice setup. Note that with reflectors of a similar area as the panel, the most you can increase irradiance is by 1x per reflector. This is because we're simply reflecting the rays from one adjacent area to the panel. The increase is actually less, because either the angled reflector or the panel are at an angle that is not perpendicular to the incident rays. So two reflectors at an optimal angle can give up to 3x the total output of a single panel at an optimal angle. Achieving 4x or more will require larger or more reflectors. Still, it's a good idea given that the reflectors cost and weigh less than adding another panel or getting higher efficiency panels. edit- Note the voltage at the single panel is low, about 14V. The optimal voltage probably doesn't change much with irradiance, but the optimal load does. That's what maximium power point tracking controllers take care of. In this case it's likely the panel would generate more power when presented a more optimal load.
Love your content! Thanks so much for doing what you do. Please continue doing these deep dives into improving practical things that we can do at home. Love the catamaran, the speaker boards, and now this solar power increase. Appreciate you!
The single axis tracking aspect of the placed mirrors (without moving the main body) is really a significant value addition to the system 👍
Yeah, where would one get a tracking system to affix to a mirror array like that, that would get the mirrors to move and keep focusing their light on the panel as the sun moves?
Would love to see a long term test of this. Please set up and use two panels one standard and one with the reflectors long term and provide the data after each month. Consider adding a third to the testing with cooling to dissapate any extra heat. You make very great videos.
They tried this in the Mojave, and ended up selling off all the panels be caused it really didn't work. Most of the panels just got cooked and failed, the blue cells turned brown. Heat is definitely the big problem, but I bet it would work in cold areas.......
YES ! A geothermal heat exchanger would work , I bet .
@@nimrodquimbus912 As you said this type of setup is definitely better in colder areas. While deserts do get more light than any other (terrestrial) location they also have to deal with extreme heat and extreme cold as well as sandstorms.
In order to do a long term test, he would have to build the robotic control arms that he mentioned. They would not only need to track the sun but also would have to open up when the panel temperature gets too high, and of course close when it rains or when the sun goes down. Spending all that money, time, and resources just to capture at most 30 cents a day worth of energy doesn't seem like a wise investment (unless you're a government worker)
@@Shadowmaster625 it would not be so much about capturing small amounts of energy as it would be to see if doing it would actually add any benefit to the overall performance day by day week by week month by month or if what was shown in the video amounts to nothing more than a parlor trick. Lots of questions could be answered like does it degrade the panel to fast and end up costing us more in the end, Bugs and design changes to the reflection system if it works, TCO recalculated, and much more. The investment would be well worth the money if there was true benefit to be realized. Simply showing what was shown in the video is not enough to cause your average joe to spend money on a potential money pit Considering how expensive solar is. Why would anyone just tamper with a working system after watching a TH-cam video In order to get potentially damaging results. However with more concrete evidence the equation changes and the risk can be justified.
A new Tech Ingredients video, always endlessly entertaining and informative. Thank you guys for the great content!
Another great video. Thank you for all you provide to the community. Ive said it before, but I'll say it again, You have one of the best channels on youtube and in my opinion youve consistently held your place at the top for a very long time. I appreciate your hard work.
I'm always so amazed at how you project such an honestly deep level of understanding of all the technical things you describe. It feels like you are someone that could be questioned endlessly on a topic and all your answers would be genuine with no bull in between. Your descriptions always feel so focused in reality that creating a mental image that sticks is very easy. The math you present always seems well placed where you use it as an aid to come to a conclusion rather than a crutch to compensate for lack of a full embodied understanding.
Thank you!
Yet, no understanding of the impact of a shadow on panel1
@@occamraiser
it is mentioned in the video as a second test where there was a difference of about 10 watt.
And I myself, having no technical expertise in any of these subjects, appreciate his willingness & generosity to educate laymen & encourage a collaborative spirit. The global energy crisis we're facing (peak oil + climate change + emerging economies) is everyone's problem. Not just country bumpkins or city mice. Not just North America, but every continent everywhere. Once upon a time the American economy depended too heavily on whale oil and giving it up was needful. Seems to me this is the next generations global space race.
@@MohamedAdel-jf4qe why not provide a time stamp so people can see for themselves. I watch the video a year ago. Don't want to have to watch it all again
I truly enjoy and learn a great deal from your presentations. Go man GO you are providing a massive level of technical knowledge
I really can't get enough of this stuff, it gives me so much hope for the future and that I can make a difference too!
Excellent content, product improvements, and presentation! Keep up the good instructional videos guys. TH-cam needs more like these that are worth watching and not a bunch of nonsense. Great work.
i've watched several of your video's with great pleasure you are highly skilled in both voice and mannerisms along with precise science, so as to leave
me with zero questions.
Great idea! The and in general just great content you’re always creating! Thanks! Honestly one of my all time favorite channels
Another interesting advantage of this setup is reducing the effect shadows have on solar panels (as made clear by the effect those small branches had in cutting the power output almost in half of the unmodified solar panel) because now the panel is getting light from 3 seperate directions, which will contain different shadow patterns.
Now that is a brilliant perfection of an idea ;)
Yews, he did not mentioned that. And compared apples with oranges. The both panels should have been in full sun.
@@ehombane Watch the video again at 14:21 There's a few secs in the video where it says "2nd test" done when both the panels are under full sun without shadows.
@@pravinsmart Thanks for pointing that out. I did not noticed. I use subtitles to confirm, that I hear correctly, but something is faulty here, subtitles are ridiculously off. So I ignored them, focusing on audio. Hence, I did not noticed the written notes.
And what I have said it remains true. He says that panels increases the output at a rate of over six times which is not true. It is almost 4 times as second test proves. He should have corrected with text this figure too.
Even more, the enhanced panels should have been placed in the shadow. Obviously, you need to enhance panels when you have poor sun conditions. Enhancing in that situation will not wear the cell too much, compared with enhanced panels in full sun. As we know, panes as every electronics depreciate in time due use, depreciation being a lot faster when the system is overexerted. So the mirrors may kill the panels in few years in a sunny location, but be a blast in a shadowed location.
I have done some testes myself at window, where I have few hours of shadowed sun, with very unsatisfactory results. However, I noticed that charging my little solar radio from a LED light, is 12 times more efficient. Yep, mind boggling. More precise, a full day of exposure, gives me one hour of player use. I considered only the two hours of full sun, the rest I suppose is useless. But at LED I charged only 10 seconds, which gave one minute of player use. Repeated few times, but not extensively, so there may be some errors. However the difference is stark. So I assumed that solar panels works on a band that LEDs are providing. Now, he confirmed my hunch. SO, that coating may be a really nice find. The two mirrors should have tripled, the production, or even less, since it cannot have perfect angles to capture all reflected surfaces. So, the extra percentage may come from that filtering of the useful band. I mean it reflects the useful bands but not the useless ones, that may even do damage through extra heating.
So, the idea is amazing. Too bad that is poorly presented and incompletely tested. .
You're awesome dude! So appreciate your thourough and detailed explanations and descriptions. You take on exploration that I would be reluctant to entertain myself as it wouldn't hold value unless such detail is documented. Your sourcing is exemplary and you reach to the front of the industry and technologies keeping me well informed. Presentation includes my inner layman and tickles my inner technician😁 Just freaking excellent work. I eat it up. Thank you!
I noticed the panel on the left had shading from a tree limb, so I expect that had a negative influence on the test. I do enjoy your videos!! Keep up the good work.
Doubtful it would change the fact it had a 5x increase.
Absolutely right. The shading of a single cell affects the total panel performance ance
That's the benefit of Microinverters v. Central Inverters.
This is the most important comment… comparing a panel in shade (even partial) to one in direct sun is a completely FALSE comparison. I have tested this myself and the loss of power is HUGE!
@@kiterb3527 micro vs string NOT central. Commercial term. Less confusing for layfolk like me.
Thank you for the research. I've done thought experiments with this principal, but did not know how much improvement can be expected by using mirrors. Now I want to build some using mylar emergency blankets as mirrors.
Thank you for getting to the point. You are one of the best lecturers I've ever had the privilege to watch.
What? ... 🤔 Dude took 20 minutes to give us a
@@trupyrodice4462 yes, but if you try to watch videos, you know it could have taken an hour to show five minutes of content! Relatively speaking, this video wasn't too bad.
I'm a solar sales consultant working remote from Brazil. Your videos are the coolest!
You do a great job of demonstrating various applications. Very easy to follow. Thank you. 👍
Great outdoor setup! Very well made demonstration, great content as always!🥰
Brilliant Idea, great explanation and video! I think a temperature sensor could easily be added to ensure the panels do not overheat but I’m sure you already thought of that. Thanks for sharing, Greg
I enjoyed your demonstration of how to increase the solar energy. I’ve messed with this quite a bit, 10 yrs ago I used a magnifying glass on a smaller panel & it worked for a short time until it burned out that spot in the panel, then I tried mirrors & the mirrors work better, & didn’t shorten the length of the life of the panel. Although these were very small cells, all which was purchased at a dollar store. Just to see if it would work. I do like your design with it folding. I had a dream of these panels used on a huge scale,& after researching it found that in fact they are building super solar cell collectors. I am always open for learning more about solar & how to get as much power out of them, when others tell me it’s impossible in the area I live to collect enough power. I live in the Midwest. Either way, I’m very happy to have found your channel and learn more about ways to improve. Thank you!
As always I thank you for the diverse range of subjects u cover. I continue to learn so much from u. Cheers & bless u.
Awesome proof of concept prototype. I can see you put time and thought into it along with a well thought out video. You rock, thanks
Greg
only good for seperate pnls,,no good if 10 or 20 on roof..
I've had a similar idea in mind for at least one end of my double row 15 panel system, but including a few faceted angles to reflect across the long rows of individual panels, and maybe an automated tracker to shift the angles as needed...
Fantastic video, so much great information! I noticed that during testing there was a shadow from a branch across the "control" solar panel, even small shadows can cause a huge loss of power. While I agree that the reflectors will add power, I think it's not as much as your test results showed.
Another benefit of the mirrors would be a reduction of shading, they would reflect light back into the shaded spots and keep power output steady.
14:20
Nice guys talking relaxed about new technologies really is fun. Thank you sir!
I did this in 1991 when I was living in my RV on a couple of 35 W PV panels for electricity. I used aluminum foil-backed Styrofoam insulation sheets for the reflectors. The panels were what they referred to as 'muds' that I got second hand because they had turned brownish due to someone using reflectors on them and overheating them, causing the adhesives inside to cook. I only used the reflectors in the winter snows up in the CO mountains, so the reflectors didn't appear to do any further harm. (Power output reduced only about 1% over a year.) But they gave me substantially more power with the reflectors, about double. The foil works just fine since getting anywhere close to 100% reflected energy from 2 'wings' will cook the panels anyway, so the attenuation caused by the cheap reflectors works just fine.
Do you think white color panels would help considerably or it should be somewhat shinny?
I agree
Aluminized mylar film survival blankets are the lightest mirror and can be stretched taut over a wooden frame and concertinered for portability too. (These survival blankets can also make deadly effective parabolic mirrors using a large cylinder to make a drum and pulling partial vacuum - I made one 30 years ago and it was a lot of fun)
Keeping the panels cool becomes a major issue - excessive heat reduces their efficiency and lifetime dramatically, so use a watercooled panel behind the solar panel to take away the heat for storage for a win-win. This is where it gets more expensive though, so the bottom line is to just add more cheap panels instead!
Those blankets degrade quite quickly outside, been there, done that.
@@boots7859 how quickly is quickly?
Slow enough for a (prolonged) camping trip?
I've gone down the mylar path, and honestly, those $45 silver coated alloy sheets sound like the way forward. Getting a result out of mylar is easy.. Getting a great result will cost more and be less resilient.
@@Jehty21 If you're thinking along the lines of boosting a portable folding panel on the trail then yes, you've got little to lose by rigging up a frame or two, you can get them very cheap.. Other than that, user mileage may vary.. It's pretty thin.
wind though
Thank you so much for your work! Your ideas tweak me to follow and use parts of your in work I am considering. Cheers to you!
Brilliant as usual! Now I’m going to rig something like that on my tiny backpacking panel. Thank you!
Love this guy!! Thanks for all the great informational videos!
Speaking of solar collection, this camera shot is overexposed.
Advice: It is usually best to underexpose the shot slightly in the camera then in post (editing) push up the exposure. This avoids clipped highlights. In normal lighting/exposure conditions the increase in noise (on most modern digital cameras) is negligible.
Thank you for the good information. This looks like a good idea especially for someone like me from N.H.. My only negative comment about your demonstration is that the original panel was not playing with an equal amount of sun since it was obviously dealing with tree shadows. That said it was probably only a 20% reduction and the end result is still that using mirrors will improve the output significantly. Two thumbs up.
Thanks for yet another brilliant video (content, production, style, delivery). The demonstrated reflector enhancement illustrated here is a great fit for RV and other portable applications to provide increased power/lb and also provide protection during transport.
An excellent demonstration! I've been thinking about using just simple one foot square mirrors grouped together as reflectors just to get light into the east side of my house from a fence that sits about 12 ft away! But the same mirrors added to panels like yours would really help with the small solar panel I have. Really incredible, the increase in voltage output, again great demonstration!
EEVBlog recently showed a tiny shadow from a wire destroyed efficiency on his solar panels in Australia. In his panels, the surrounding doides get overheated, reducing efficiency and panel life. Even tiny shadows can be a disaster for solar panels.
I ran into this issue with the AC unit on top of my RV, it didn't matter which direction the sun was in one of my solar panels was being ever so slightly shaded by the AC unit
I was thinking the same thing as I was looking at the shadows off the trees on the first panel.
This shadow makes the comparation invalid. He should make a new test video.
Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) inverters with bypass diodes can mitigate the effects of shading, by bypassing low output shaded cells. Advanced algorithms for MPPT can even respond to transient shadings such as clouds or even a high-speed event like a bird passing over a panel. These algorithms use a variety of techniques like Neural Networks (NN), Fuzzy Logic Control (FLC), and even biologically-inspired algorithms like Artificial Bee Colony (ABC), Ant-Colony Optimization (ACO), and even Flower Pollination (FP) to search for a global power maximum on the I-V curve among all cell outputs.
Yes, There's actually shadow seen in the left panel which I immediately thought that are the figures completely right.
*edit* oh it was already commented
I've been using something similar for over a year now, made from 1/8" aluminum covered with a mylar emergency blanket spray glued on. It easily doubled the power output with nearly no cost (used materials on hand left over from a solar oven build)
I've got a big old satellite dish laying around that I keep thinking I should cover with mylar. I haven't worked out an application for it, though, besides hanging a can of beans in the focal point and taking bets on when it explodes.
I immediately thought of using emergency blankets too for the reflector. Thumbs up.
@@Darwinpasta It might be pretty difficult to get it to lay flat without creases. If it's made of metal already you could try simply stripping off the paint and polishing it. Rustoleum also makes actual "mirror" paint you could try. Sort of expensive though at close to 20 bucks a can where I live (Canada).
@@whatelseison8970 Fiberglass, unfortunately. I figured the creases wouldn't matter too much if it's all reasonably flat. Hadn't thought about the paint, though.
@@Darwinpasta It depends on how tight you want the focus to be but you're probably right. Only one way to find out I suppose. To stick it down for a trial run you could just spray a bit of water between the dish and the film and the surface tension will hold it down. If that goes well then you can try a nice, thin, slow curing epoxy. Generally solvent based glues can't dry through the film.
Keep up the good job!
Thanks for sharing and stay safe !
As always, thank you for an excellent presentation. My hunger to know is always served a superb dish when I visit your channel.
As others have said there are some details that have to be taken into consideration such as cell overheating and wind loading, but this is a great concept once those caveats are addressed.
The tracking system needs to be addressed. If these were fixed they'd reduce morning and evening sunlight on the panel. Canceling out efficiency gains. These also force you to space your panels out a LOT more because the collectors could shade other panels. There's a lot more work that needs to go into this. For most people any type of tracking system. Even a cheap DIY one totally destroys the cost benefit ratio. It's easier to just buy more panels.
"A course or sloppy algorithm?" No, man, it's pure corporate evil.
Love your channel. Keep 'em coming! (Can I come live with you guys when the end times come? ;)
Wouldn’t recommend. When the end times come mcmaster-carr probably doesn’t deliver supplies anymore. These guys are done for then. 😂
@@petergoestohollywood382 I'm not so sure. Super-Dad here will probably start mining his own rare earth metals at that point. ;)
Incredibly educational. Worth experimenting with.
Best channel on the tube! Thank you for your work.
Love this video! Very interesting to think we could potentially increase solar energy output with using less panels. But, please do a part 3 of the vanilla rum episode! I know you didn't want to get into mixing and focus on the tech, but I'm so curious it's killing me!
Considered such a thing at 49deg N since solar irradiance falls off dramatically in the Winter. It's not so much about overdriving the panels but collecting more of that diffuse, weak light so it performs closer to the rated values. I especially like your idea of moving the reflectors rather than the panel as a single-axis tracker approach.
BTW: When you are going to start reselling some of the cool stuff you find?
This was excellent. I actually watched the ad even though I could have skipped it just because i wanted to support a solid video with great information
All your videos are great, I learn something every one I watch. Around 6 years ago I moved into a house that had a large shop and have worked on a solar heater and my version of a 2 stage evaporative A/C system. Both worked great in a large prototype setup. I plan on using the bio balls in the next version of my A/C system, thanks for the tip. My biggest problem comes in sizing the pumps. I think I must have slept through my fluids class. Would love pick your brain some time about my projects.
You are doing the projects I've always thought about and this one is at the top of my list for tinkering some day. Would be awesome to also invent a DIY sun tracking device to move the panel and incorporate the panel cooling system too to keep efficiency super high!
that was interesting ! i use a lot of solar and batteries / inverter systems on boats. can't see making these moving parts easily anytime soon but definitely good to know the differences possible ! Good luck and keep those inventions coming !
WOW!! Amazing. You, sir, are the embodiment of what an educator should be. Great Video. I learned so much and found it both exciting and informative. I could totally geek out and learn from you for days on end. I love how the professor provides visual analogies to explain concepts that would otherwise be difficult to grasp. i.e., the porcupine analogy to explain the perpendicular reflection of light from a concave/convex mirror and increasing/decreasing acute angles as your distance from the center increases or decreases. I can tell he has a passion for education and knowledge. I studied chemistry and biology and was lucky because I could see the electron and compounds moving and interacting in my mind. I found physics difficult because I do not naturally see tangential forces or acute perpendicular angles in my mind without much effort, like I can see the electrons moving in Organic Chem. Using those types of visual aids helps viewers of all educational backgrounds to understand immediately. It provides an understanding of complex topics, saving time for the teacher and the student to learn something new. You don't have to look up what they meant by that. If he were using the relevant scientific jargon exclusively,n it might be difficult to visualize the subject material he is trying to educate. The theoretical opening was very interesting, too; it actually gives you a good idea because if a very inexpensive solution is, say, 5-10 years out and you have a solar panel guaranteed to last 25 years, but by modifying with mirrors, you did actually decrease the life of the panel it is still within the time frame of the new tech becoming available for cheap. Also, you would pay off your system sooner and be in the green.
Thanks - great info - will try to set something up using this concept on the farm
Interesting, I've been trying to plan out what I'd like to set up on my home in the future... and this looks to be a *good* way to boost efficiency and output.
just use 3 solar panels for home use. unless footage isnt and issue.
Yeah, youre going to pump that efficency, at the cost of durability... Youre going to increase a lot the working temperature of your panels
I did this last summer with mylar blankets on fiberglass and I've been very happy with the results! I've increased my battery bank by 40% and its been working quite well. Great video as always!
Good idea with mylar. That's exactly what cannabis growers use to make the most of their indoor lighting.
@@davedunn7759 I wondered why they looked at me so funny when I asked for thirty mylar blankets at the hardware store lol
@@larryreagan6936 LMAO!!
Can you show a pic somehow of your Mylar blanket setup ?
@@emmasantos5939 I have some pictures. I'll try to post them here but if I can't I'll post them on my FB page under my same name.
ive been here since 20k subscribers i think. One of my favorite, and most under-appreciated channels.
A true teacher. Thanks a lot for this video.
Very interesting mirror solution. Thanks for the full introduction on other solar types.
Yes, keeping the mirror cool to reduce ohmic loss is important. Another channel demonstrated the shadow from radio antenna mast hurt his output. Might be interesting to include
Before saying anything, let me check to see if you ever covered sterling engines. The heat removed from cooling a solar panel might be worth the watts.
Sterling engine directly driving cooling water circulation plus a small generator while reducing ohmic losses in the cells so more watts can be removed.
Very interesting, thanks for making this vid ^^
My only concern would be wind getting under the mirrors like sails. Maybe the same actuators controlling the sun-following movement could have a wind feature to flat-pack them when windy? Seems like a lot harder to program that though...
I wondered about wind also. I live in Mexico and have 32 panels on my flat roof. We have wind gusts here a time or two a year of up to a hundred mph or more. I can see where individual panels with space between them this would be great, also as stated transportable. As mine are set up in rows of eight touching each other this would not work for me but fascinating if your set up would allow.
Fantastic presentation and idea !!! Thank you for sharing !!!
Yea I agree with all points raised and have held this view, just need actuators with thermal heat exchanger on the backplate (PVT) and a temperature sensor that feeds into the flow rate of the heat exchanger to maintain optimal cell temperature and you're where im at in terms of design. Thanks for the video, very gratifying!
Thank you for this video. Would be interesting to see the effect on the thermal system. Maybe with the concentrator you could produce heat even on cloudy and cold days.
I love this video. It really does have practical applications, especially in colder/lower solar intensity areas. I had an idea to do some light reflection stuff with solar panels. I was thinking of finding a way to use water as a heat sync to keep the panels cool, and have warm water at the same time.
I do wonder how much that bit of shade on the control panel was hurting it's output.
I recently saw a video of a guy seeing a spike of something like 20% loss in power output simply because a thin metal pole for an antenna shaded the solar panels. The video name is "EEVblog 1426 - WOW! This Problem DROPS Solar Output by 20% !" by the channel "EEVblog" I would say that the gain in solar panel caused by the mirrors is more like 20% to 50%, depending on the circuitry of the solar panel. The biggest increase would be from lighting up with the indirect light (being reflected by the mirrors) the areas which are shaded by the direct light hitting the solar panels. But there are ways to use more mirrors to light up either a solar panel, a solar heater, or a house.
You can use multiple mirrors (which can be as cheap as aluminium foil, with clingwrap (food wrap) on both sides for protection, kept fairly stretched between two poles (but not so much they rip), each at a different angle from the ones next to it, to act more like a fresnel mirror (the mirror version of the fresnel lens), and to either move that one or the solar panel into the concentrated sunlight.
You can even set it up to maximize sunlight gained in the mornings and evenings, so you don't have to cool the solar panels too much, since that takes away from the energy produced, but mounting an under-volted fan or array of fans to the back of the solar panels, and maybe also using the do-it-yourself thermal paste and a copper or aluminium backing for a heatsink plate (as opposed to a heatsink with those fins) to maximize the heat transfer to the air.
With water, it's a bit more difficult, because you have to use waterproof materials and electrically insulate them from the panels, so it would be less efficient than the fans, and (depending on the setup) it might need to resist both the water pressure and quick thermal expansion-contraction cycles, without losing structural integrity for quite some time.
The shadow made about 17w (around 40%) difference.
@Jim McIntosh impractical for most applications due to size, windproofing and overheating. Ground mounted systems or small portable panels are where mirrors would work best especially in cool places far away from the equator.
@Jim McIntosh wouldn't the cells be at very inefficient angles to the sun? /\ or is one side a mirror?
I think heat pipes would be better in lower temperatures but costly. I have fancied making my own heat pipes out of copper pipes containing water in a vacuum but I am barred from fitting anything to my roof so have not tried.
A mild wind will rip that panel right off the roof.
I love this channel how you apply so much technology to practical uses
Nice work dude, I love your hands on approach
This is something that I’ve been talking about trying for the last 5 years. Really excited to see someone that thinks the same and actually demonstrated it works. Really impressive.
@@iamstillcrazy not useless in our northern climate. We install these for three months in the winter and then remove them for the other nine months.
@@iamstillcrazy I live in the north and it is cloudy lots of days so solar panels don’t make much sense. I came up with this idea to find a work around for those problems. I currently don’t have any solar panels and likely will never. However this concept brings it closer to a possibility - except during the summer. Thanks.
@@akau1340 Why do you remove them for the other 9 months?
Interesting vid and solar concentrators have been used in the Mojave desert for many years testing various designs. Theoretical vs practical always comes to mind and with quality solar panels being so dirt cheap approaching $.020/watt in some cases, it might be more practical to simply add more panels that can be firmly bolted down to racks for simplicity and survivability in all weather.
Cheers!
Total newbie here, and I'm blown away by this information. Thank you!
Thanks and welcome!
This is awesome 😎 I'm definitely going to need this for this coming winter 🥶❄️
Also a great way to compensate the decrease of light (power) on cloudy days, with no overheating problems.
As other commenters have noted the left hand panel was partially shaded which would have had a drastic impact on the output.
Having said that I looked at reflectors and trackers a while ago and while they do make a difference, solar panels became so cheap that it was far easier to just add extra panels equivalent to the gains from the reflector/trackers. Remember they have to be maintained so the extra effort is seldom worth it.
Anyone reconsidering plans would be advised to add up the costs and extra engineering of the reflectors and/or trackers against just adding a couple of panels. Here in Australia it is now common to put say 6kW of panels on a 5kW inverter to compensate for losses from incidence angle. The inverter can usually manage the extra panels perfectly.
This is where I landed.... Going with used panels and an orphan (new, but no longer supported by mfg) inverter, including single axis adj. mounting with 4x6 and unistrut... I'm at $430 per kw. That is not counting the cost of the wiring I had to upgrade and the cutoff switches and such to wire everything up, or the inspection after I finished.
I have been working with solar power since 2012 and I am very much in agreement with Steven additional panels is almost always the best option and like Steven points out you can add more panels to a smaller inverter to get a higher output - yes you might lose some power in the summer but you will get it back in the winter months - I've done the calculations many many times 😁
You are good a person imparting your hard-work and knowledge with diligence and honestly. Jazakallah
Really appreciate your content and the approach you have to your channel and audience. The first video of yours I saw was an air conditioner; must've been over a year ago. I just discovered you're all over the place (in tech), and I'm happy to subscribe. :)
Stay safe.
Thanks!
Appreciate the comment.
Would be very interested in seeing a follow up on implementing the sun tracking. With a quick thought using a suitable linkage between the panels it should be possible to operate it with one linear actuator. Since they don't need to move fast using a traveling nut design should provide plenty of power even for multiple panels and be simple to build yourself.
The linkage would need continual adjustment throughout the year I think
Awesome. I was told to mount PV panels at 90° to earth's surface in the winter so snow has a great chance of falling off & the sun would also reflect off the snow to the panel. Now if there was a top mirror instead of side mirrors, & if it was wider, it wouldn't need to be adjusted as often. Maybe once a week.
I'm tempted to do this mirror idea for a solar heat collector also.
Don't forget wind load. And snow on the upper reflector. Will need daily care like a rabbit hutch.
@@NICEFINENEWROBOT In most cases fixed panels will remove their snow pretty quick. You may have problems if you live in an area that is prone to having 1 foot of snow drop a lot and sticks around. Yet it does not take much for the air to warm up the panels and the snow to slide off.
@@kameljoe21 Usually you can heat the panels by running current through them.. making the snow disappear quite fast
@@allesklarklaus147 I have never heard of that. If that is true then that is how the large solar farms in northern areas might do it. Though I wonder how much energy it requires to do that and if its manual or not, an AI of some sort would have to confirm that there is snow on the panels and start the process of heating panels.
@@kameljoe21 I don't think you need AI to know that if it's January at 1PM and your solar panels aren't producing any power that you probably have snow on them.
Great job increasing the output of the solar panels. I plan on setting a couple of these up on permanent open mounts with a solar tracker that is controlled so that with a light sensor it will always be facing direct sunlight both horizontally and vertically.
this is absolutely brilliant sir
love your video and the most wonderful thing is your eloquent explanation....Keep up the good work
Thanks, we will.
I fell in love with perovskite solar cells tech quite some time ago and I am still waiting for a viable, long lasting iteration of it. When/if it finally comes, it's going to be amazing. That's why I can't wait for the next video! I want to know what you have to share with us in that regard.
I think that putting perowskite film on top of a solar water heater AND adding the reflectors could end up in a mind-blowingly effective device.
Now thy are scaring the public with threats of toxic Lead (Pb) in waste Perovskite (TI check pronunciation) panels. - it could be somewhat of a concern as just like batteries solar panels to tend to be distributed and downscaled over a couple of generations - rather than replaced and recycled after first use. More likely causing problems in "terminal countries" rather than place of initial installation.
@@kadmow Perovskite is actually the name of CaTiO₃ structure that can hold various cations inside. Newer perovskite panels that are being tested have had their Lead replaced with other elements that are not toxic.
I love this channel.
You can use very cheap, little electric motors with a high gear ratio to move the mirrors (and to fold them). You can use a very simple computer (ESP32) with a realtime clock to have the right position.
Perfect setup for linear actuators too!
No need for timetables or a micro processor. Two LDR or photo diodes feeding a comparator, deciding which way round to turn the gear motor. It also works in the morning with the panel in evening position facing away from the morning sun.
Hello @@Tore_Lund , yes, i saw something like that with a 3D printed object and it worked with shadow or no shadow. But the mirror adjustment will complicate that and clouds or bad weather will be maybe a problem. The ESP32 is very cheap and not difficult to use.
@@wizzardrincewind9458 It is just me, I think analog first. But true, anything the slightest more complex and you are better off with an ESP. Clouds or varying intensity, is not a problem with an analog circuit, You adjust the hysteresis of the comparator, so it won't hunt or oscillate but only react very slowly to changes.
Hello @@Tore_Lund , if you can solve a problem by thinking and dont using a computer, it is the better way. To make things works easy is a good thing and is the thinking of a engineer.
I am very impressed with this idea, i am going to try it.
i built something similar bout 15 years ago in an octagon formation, nice video .
I love your channel, when I was in school we had teachers that were there just for the 8 hours or so a day just for the check. Very plain very dull and uninteresting. But you sir, in my opinion, are not only very smart, but your method of instruction is very interesting, and captures my attention, and creates an eagerness to be involved.
If our education system had a lot more instructors like you, the world would most definatley be a better place.
Thanks for all your time and hard work. Peace
Perhaps you could package and edit some of your videos for a high school audience and see if you can find a school district interested in buying. After all we are becoming a multimedia learning environment. Covid has actually pushed us more into distance learning. It's the interactive part that needs to advance. Great work!
Hello Tech ingredients, this video was very informative and I admire your ability to get things done. I started experimenting with solar concentration by coating a 1 meter parabolic dish in 2016....and I only got as far as burning wood...Since 2016, I've wondered if it is possible/practical to concentrate with a prism effect, thereby splitting the spectrum into a linear rainbow pattern....somebody in the Southern hemisphere did break some solar generating record with something similar. The main advantage of the prism effect is diverting the heat to the IR/UV ends, leaving highly concentrated, low temperature, regions of spectrum optimized light. Multi junction chemistry could be separated (out of each other's way) into separate panels and arranged in the appropriate concentrated light band. The heat would be pointed off panel, to the IR/UV edges of the beam pattern. Additional benefit could be a focused heat source. PV and hot water in one compact unit?
Those wavelengths in consumer panels are absorbed with the other wavelengths already. It's how they can generate electricity on cloudy days. Not saying it wouldn't work but with the amount of extra components that would work against the systems reliability, for a consumer are the efficiencies gained worth the extra complexity? All light that is absorbed into a material normally converts into heat without the need of a prism that will eventually degrade just like the normal pv cells would. Even if you made it so the system heated your water in your home directly, as soon as the hot water tank was full all that energy potential in the square footage where you placed your thermal generator would be lost when not using the hot water. A normal cell would charge a battery and if hooked on the grid the extra when not in use might get money back from your power provider.
If you want heat there are geothermal systems that u can burry beneath the frost line (4-10ft) that uses glycol, ground circulator pumps, and heat pumps to concentrate heat where you want it. They look like a web of pipes you burry under your lawn with a heat pump where your furnace would be and a circulator pump driving it all. They can be powered by a normal pv array. Sadly these systems can be incredibly expensive due to the inflated labor costs to install the pipes, and any mistakes that can be easily overlooked while planning for the head pressure requirements. So you normally want a professional to design the system, but if you have the high start costs, can do a heated floor garage without air locking it, know how to calculate and add up head pressure requirements for a pump system, and are willing to dig up your lawn with some heavy equipment, one organized and efficient person could easily install one in a summer for their home. Just make sure you select pipes that won't rot out to quick. Which is a learning project in itself because you probably want some underground coating for it to last longer. You don't see many of these systems though because a lot of companies who thought they could get the math right couldn't and so that plus cutting corners trying to get to the next job and there are a lot of horror stories around the technology. There are no cutting corners with this system because it will equal reliability problems. That and shitty plumbed pipes leaking somewhere in the web is a nightmare to fix and find as you wonder where all that air is coming from. If designed and plumbed properly they are extremely simple and reliable systems where literally the only moving parts in the whole system are the circulator pump, the heat pump, and the valves controlling the flow into the heat pump. Sad it isn't used in conjunction with solar and wind more often especially with todays political climates and the price of fossil fuels.
@@randoedits6906 Id say that the main advantage of taking heat away from the panel is increasing its efficiency and maybe lifespam, even if you cant make use of it it's still better to waste that heat away from your other components that are sensitive to heat. But sure, the added complexity is probably not worth the trouble for consumer use
@@joey_f4ke238 You're not wrong, it's just the physics of how heat moves means it will be a small effect that still can't protect the surface where the sunlight hits its directly. The photons themselves degrade it even if we could take the effects of heat away completely. But the heat is a byproduct of the light hitting the surface exciting the material. It's the reason you don't really see cooling systems like that for them. This channel actually has a video on how heat moves around I just can't remember the title. It's there though.
@@randoedits6906 Deep thinking, keep doing that but I feel the need to contest a few of your points, Not all wavelenghts, or frequencies depending on how you want to look at it, are effective at converting to a flow of electrons in a given solar panel. The last thing you want to do in a solar panel is to absorb solar energy and convert it to heat. Admittedly, I do not know which wavelenghts are best captured by any particular solar cell. But suffice it to say that whatever wavelenghts are not converted into a flow of elecrons in the panel you have, you would rather be reflected 100% or transmitted 100% or else just like everything else, it's all heat in the end. And I hope you are aware by now, that elevated junction temperature is not good for the conversion efficiency of any solar cell. If you cant make a flow of electrons out of it, let it pass right on through or bounce it off. Hmmm
@@laserflexr6321 Not sure where you picked up that I think heat is good for the transmission of electricity? Heat will increase the resistance in the system meaning you would lose power generated. I did make a generalization of the frequencies when I said they already use them all, but that is because as you have pointed out the other frequencies don't do as well at creating electricity and only increase heat reducing efficiency so are designed to reflect off. There are different cells you could use for those different wavelengths but now you need the extra surface area as the different cells can't physically exist in the same space. Yeah there are see through cells they plan to make windows with you could try stacking, but that technology is pretty new, and I don't think the tech has gotten there. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure at the end of the day your consumer panels are going to have the best efficiency when you factor the square footage the different systems physically cover (excluding the future tech of clear panels) depending where you are in the world. Also if I am wrong what is the cost of such a system and how reliable would it be? Those two points are the main reason we don't see crazy solar arrays everywhere vs fields of pv panels or wind farms. As it stands right now consumer panels are guaranteed to pay for themselves before they fail and if they don't you claim the warranty. Sure there are those experimental power plants that use mirrors and prisms, and they work to a degree, but for a consumer it makes little sense when you think of how complicated those systems are and the fact the prism degrades.
For simplicities sake say you have one 1ft x1ft consumer panel, giving you power @ 60% efficiency. Then compare to this array of other cells that absorb the different frequencies, and get 100%. But now your system takes up 2-3x the area but still only is processing a 1 square foot of sunlight.
Would you rather take 2 square feet to process 1 square foot of light at 100%? Or would you rather take up one square foot and process 60% of the 1 square foot of light?
The panel's efficiency isn't the only efficiency you need to plan around. Is it an efficient use of space? Are the materials being used efficient vs the expected lifetime of the panel and what it will generate?
Thanks, I'm just getting into solarand this sounds like an avenue of interest to investigate
Beautiful & elegant solution… 😎👌🏽 Congrats!!
Maybe I missed it but hybrid solar panels seem to be be something interesting to look at especially in this context due to the additional heat. They convert what electricity they can up to low double digits(whatever that currently is) and the remaining energy goes into heating water (underneath the photovoltaics) while also cooling the panels. Sounds like a perfect project for you guys.
heating water directly is useless. you can 3~6X the energy to convert it to electricity and using a heat pump then just heating water directly
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld It's hardly useless. A heat pump adds a LOT of cost and complexity for that added efficiency. Heating water directly is a very simple, cheap and robust way to directly use what would otherwise be waste heat.
@@bradley3549 its actually useless to do it "cheap". looking at the startup cost only is breathtakingly shortshighted.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld What you missed in the original comment was 'due to the additional heat'. These solar panels aren't made to get 3x the luminosity that comes with reflectors which can damage the solar panel pretty quickly in a warm climate. You'd need to cool the panels effectively to prevent additional costs of replacing the panels much sooner than their original lifespan.
@@charlielarson1350 as panel makers state how much energy they lose due to heat in most of their datahseets (its not much) its nothing buy economical to even consider cooling and maintaining that whole setup. just eating that little (because it is little) reduction in lifespan is FAR more economical then dicking around with a cooling setup for an entire roof for 30 years. do you know how i know that it does not make economic sense? because if it did large solar parks would be using that already.
Absolutely fantastic content as usual. I've bene looking at setting up a solar supply for my house, and this looks great for increasing individual panel efficiency, requiring fewer panels overall, great savings! Would it be possible for you to do a video on the solar tracking you mentioned towards the end of the video? Cheers guys!
Love the channel and the clear presentation.
you have a fine art, so many these days are under educated, this gives me hope that the people that love learning have folks like yourself to aid us along.
all the best, james
Thanks for the support!
This is a great idea! I did improve on it (permanent install) at home to include a water jacket on the back side of panel for cooling (not necessary - keeping panel cooler increases lifespan) - i achieved 4x more power and temp increased only 2 degrees - a very nice trade-off.
Hi the water jacket sounds like a great addition to the reflectors.Do have a photo and more info on it and how you retrofitted it
@@martinscheirich6387 I'm still working on it - I changed the design into a small 'misting' system which sprays water over the backside of panel - this is the way to go I think - very little cost for this setup as long as water is easily available
Screaming! Screaming for vengeance!
@@mordecaisackett9421 thanks,you don't have a photo of your stop do you?
@@mordecaisackett9421 could you submerge the backside of the panel in a pool of water?
Or submerge the whole panel?
I was waiting for him to accidently light a fire behind him with that high power lens!
Where have you been all my life? Thank you for your videos!
I have two friends, busy installing solar panels for their home system, So I've passed this program onto both.
This may even persuade me to get interested in solar panels, because without these reflectors, solar is non viable in my location.
..and I repeat;
[I've listened to a lot of lectures, some clear, and some not very, others just confusing..
Yours must be one of the clearest I've ever listened to.
The demonstration, was well presented, and easy to follow.]
SUBSCRIBED!
😊👍
(Where in 'New England' are you situated?)
Great video, thank you. I’ve always wondered about the practicalities of this type of reflector.
Two questions:
1) How do you end up with 4x more power with what looks like 3x higher solar collection area (and reflectors that are necessarily less than 100% efficient)? There must be some non-linearity in the efficiency curve of the panels vs incoming solar flux?
2) If the reflectors are side mounted, you will end up with a tradeoff of increased peak generation vs decreased generation in early and late hours since the reflectors will start to shade the panel. Would need to integrate over the course of the day to see which is better. As you mentioned, one solution would be to implement active tracking. Also if you had a well aligned row of panels, another solution might be to mount the reflectors on the top and bottom instead? Light would be reflected onto the adjacent panels in the morning and evening hours. 🤔🤓
I was thinking the same thing, but even if it was nonpeak times it could extend the useable window rather than straight peak power and decrease the temperatures at that time.
The panel on the left was always shaded by a tree. This greatly reduced its power output. At the end of the video, the bulk of the tree shadow was centered on the left panel. A partially shaded cell does not produce any power - it becomes a diode.
A better test would have dropped the mirrors on the right panel out of position to show base power, then moved the mirrors back to show concentrated power.
The importance of tracking could have been demonstrated by turning the concentrated panel to one side (or waiting an hour or two for the sun to move). Then tip the panel on its side (placing the reflectors on top and bottom), then repeat the "tracking" experiment to show reduced tracking requirements.
This was a good idea for a video, but wasn't very well executed. Too many problems and questionable results. No thumbs up for you today.... (unusual).
@@brettd5884 He did mention the shaded panel in the video actually, and spliced in a second test result without shade. The difference was less drastic but still higher than I would expect. Agree that with/without reflectors on the same panel would have been a better test.
@@FallLineJP It was hard to miss the banners (and I didn't). I was watching closely for instances were he was taking readings - it happened that the left panel was always shaded when measurements were taken.
I might also point out that the system can't generate power beyond the amount of light the system captures. For a panel with two reflectors about the same size as the panel itself, I'd estimate that not much more than double the light could be captured, and not much more than double the power produced. I find claims of 3X (or more) output power dubious with those reflectors. The system geometry doesn't support much more than 2x.
@@brettd5884 14:22 - When they show the readings for their 2nd test, the panels are not visible. We'll just have to take their word for the shadow having been fixed properly.
As for the math - please see my initial comment. I was wondering the same thing. It doesn't make sense assuming 100% efficient panels, but the efficiency curve of PV panels is non-linear vs solar irradiance, and quickly falls off a cliff below 200W/m2. Not sure where in new england he's located and what time of day the test was done, but the irradiance could easily be 100W/m2 or less (especially if they are not perfectly aligned), and is unlikely to be above 200. So tripling the irradiance to the panels could actually increase the PV output by more than 3x since it could enable the panel to work in a more efficient regime.
It's true that there are quite a bit of possible variables not accounted for in this test. From the variation in individual panel efficiency, to the precise alignment of each panel, etc. A better test would have been to use the same panel and just hinge the reflectors to the back of the panel for the "control" test.
Nevertheless, it's an interesting idea that could be quite helpful especially for folks in Northern climates - not least of which because you can manufacture something similar from many types of scrap material. The fundamental constraint on the growth of solar is the manufacturing capacity of PV panels. So something like this that can make better use of existing panels is likely a net positive.
Great idea for tracking! I could see some issues with snow and ice interference with motion. It would be great to close up and cover panel before a snowfall as long as it would open again. Would love to hear you thoughts on snow and ice build up. I really appreciate your effort toward finding effective affordable solutions!
Tracking like this won't work well for several panels side by side unless spaced far apart because of obstruction.
I am worried about higher winds, because the side panels increase the surface area and thus the force the wind will create on the panel.
@@ahaveland not exactly true. It would be fairly easy to attach the reflectors to a rig that's controlled by a tracker that's controlled by voltage output.
@@ahaveland but with 3x the flux, you can omit 2/3 panels and gain that space for the mirrors. The mirror equipment is less expensive than the 2 other PV panels needed to get the same output because of the lower flux.
snow on the ground in front of the panel should reflect many of the photons onto the panel...........NASA says snow reflects almost all, 60-85% of the yellow green light (question is what % will hit the panel after being reflected) of the 450-800 or 1,000nm wavelength that crystalline panels use. Make snow in front of your panel the night before sunny winter days? Build south easterly and south westerly oriented reflective fences? The reflected light could offset the loss from branches that shadow your panels, no?
Incredible information. So simple and clever.
This is one of the best, if not the best videos on solar panels. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Thanks!
Did you watch our more recent video on panel cooling?
Hello! No, I have not seen it. But, I will take some time to look at it later. Thanks again for the work you do in educating us. Sorry if I make a grammar mistake here and there. English is not my primary language.@@TechIngredients