Fix Old Cameras: Hasselblad CM Back Overlapping Frames
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2017
- Film frames overlapping or jammed film wind condition in a Hasselblad CM film Back. This video shows are to access and repair the area of the mechanism that typically causes the issue of overlapping frames or a jammed wind condition.
classic camera repair - www.phototronic.biz
A few tools and books - www.amazon.com/shop/fixoldcam...
Thank you so much, this was invaluable in performing a CLA on the Hasselblad back, your explanation is a life saver, rewatched it 100 times
Thank you so much for this video. I had a problem with a back on my 500cm not winding properly. Cleaned and lubricated all the gears, everything works like a charm now
Many thanks for this detailed instruction. Although my back was functioning, I wanted to examine areas for cleaning and lubrication. It's butter smooth now!
Good to hear. Thanks for the comment.
Beautifully done. This is one of my favorites!
Dano... that means a great deal coming from you.
Finally got around to this repair and it went wonderfully. I was successfully able to do all the procedures but the back still jammed when shooting. I then did some more investigating and saw that the vinyl dog leg or part 20717 was the real culprit. Using two other backs I shot the first frame and looked to see where the gears had advanced to. I then noticed the non-functional back was slightly forward, only a gear, but enough to cause the jam. Now I'll be ordering the replacement part and getting on with the repair. This video and some message boards all gave enough clues to finish the job! Heck I could even buy all the jammed A12 backs I find now knowing I have two ways of repairing them.
Very good to hear of your success and your enthusiasm for future repairs. Your persistence and patience paid off. The white plastic/vinyl dog leg lever sometimes is dented because of the snap back action of the return gear. The repeated beating it gets from the pin on the back side of the lower winding gear will over time make a dent in the dog leg. If this is the circumstance, replacement is the best solution,. However sometimes the dent can be expanded back out by imbedding a small washer or nut behind the dent into the body of the dog leg via the tip of a hot solder iron. Maybe a FOC video is in order addressing the dog leg issue. Keep'em going.
Thank you very much for this great tutorial. Thanks to you I saved a lot of money and had some fun doing the repair myself.
Very good to hear of you success and thank you for your interest in FOC.
Good to hear of your success.
Absolutely superb video sir. THANK you
This is a great video!
One thousand of thanks! I Think I solved my problem of overlapping frames, let's check it tomorrow with a fresh film...
Good to hear of your success!
Film tested! The space between the frame is perfect, it doesn't overlap anymore so no happy or unhappy double exposures... I'm happy! Many thanks to you :-)
All of your videos are fantastic! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the world.
On the subject of medium format cameras, I would love to see you make a video on the Bronica SQ-A or SQ-AI. I have an SQ-AI that winds the film, but doesn't cock the mechanism that trips the shutter in the lens. It makes it so that the film advances through the whole roll without being able to take a picture.
Thank you for your comments and interest in Fix Old Cameras.
Thank you, you saved my camera!!
Really thanksful this video,
i have a problem in A12 too
Thank you so much, this fixed my sticky back perfectly :)
Good to hear of you success.
Many thanks for this instruction! You helped me!!!
Good to hear the video was helpful.
This video is amazing
Thanks for saving my film back and some money plus time getting it serviced elsewhere ;)
Thanks for your interest in FOC and you comments.
Excellent. Helped me fix my CM back. A couple of things: 1. I think my back does not have a "sweet spot" for Frame 1. Adjusting the indicator dial on the frame counter wheel simply fixes the point where the winder locks to start frame 1. The other frame positions are all set up by a cam on the frame counter wheel. 2. When resetting the frame 1 position, turn the dial clockwise relative to the wheel to start frame 1 earlier (bigger gap between frames 1 and 2), and vice versa. 3. Paint which was previously used to lock the three dial screws can get trapped between the dial and the wheel when you make the adjustment, making it a bit too thick so that it jams on re-assembly. This is difficult to diagnose because it only happens when you put it all together. The solution is to remove the dial completely, scrape away the old paint, then set the dial in the desired position and install the screws . Paint the screws if you must, or later when you know it's right. 4. Make sure not to trap the pawl under the ratchet wheel when reinstalling the spool winder gear. It could cause a lot of damage if you tighten it up in that condition. 5. Don't be easily tempted to remove the frame counter wheel- it is surrounded by a complicated series of levers and interlocks and there's probably nothing wrong in there. Just lubricate it. Once again, many many thanks.
Thank you for your comments on your experience and insight on how you will able to work the outlined repair procedure. It should be helpful to others who might endeavour to give it a go.
To fix frame 1 - 2 spacing the counter dial controls the spacing. if the screw looks like this ( 0 ) (dead center), frame 1/2 will be separate, with no spacing. if the screw looks like this ( 0) (screw to the right), frames 2 will overlap with 1. If screw looks like this, (0 ), frame 1 and two will be spaced wide apart. Best setting would be t have the screw locate on the left side, like this ( 0 ). I tested this out with two different backs.
Thank you very much. Coincidentaly, just picked up a hassy 500cm and have this problem on the back that came with it.
Good to hear of the fortunate timing. With a little persistence and patience you should be back in business.
There's an easier way to make sure that the counter dial is in the correct position: with all the gears and the support plate installed, push up on the pin that the film insert would normally activate from inside the back (it's the one that moves the center mechanism into place so that it meshes with the counter dial). While holding that pin rotate the takeup spool gear until the release arm drops into the first recessed slot in the gear under the counter dial. At the same time that the release arm drops into place, the small lever on the underside of the support plate should also be falling into place in the cutout on the edge of the dial near the number 7. Loosen the screws on the dial and adjust it until that lever is in the correct position then tighten the screws back up.
I'd also suggest that if you're going to go through the trouble of removing and cleaning the main gear assembly that you might as well spend a few extra minutes to completely disassemble and re-lube the rest of the back. Most of these backs are 40+ years old at least and could use some new grease and oil on the parts that need it.
Hello, thank you for the information. Very helpful. is it possible that you make a video on how to change the spring? Mine is broken and its been a pain to install the new one.
Thank you!
Look for Hasselblad's service manual that covers all the different film back models, it explains how to recoil the spring. Basically you put the crimped outer end of the spring into a slot on the inner hub of the gear and then slowly wind the spring into that hub. Just make sure you do it in the right direction (so that the spring is tensioned when the gear is turned clockwise)
Hi, great video. I already fix the auto stop of my A16. But before i take it further apart i was wondering if the tension of the spring in the top right is the same or if it is higher or lower then the a 12.
Hope you can help me out this far after uploading the video.
Thanks so much for this video. Can you elaborate where one can find shutter oil to lubricate the dog leg?
www.amazon.com/dp/B000B600L2/?ref=exp_inf_pl_fixoldcameras or a light sewing machine oil...
Gracias por el video. Tengo una hasseblad 500 CM y solo puedo hacer 10 fotografías en cada carrete. los espacios entre un fotograma y otro son diferentes.Espero con este video poder solucionarlo.Saludos desde España.
Great video just have a couple questions. What is the properly sized slotted screwdriver? Also are there any major differences to be aware of between the A12 back here and the older style backs?
When using slotted screw drivers in the repair of classic cameras, just make certain that the blade fits snugly and completely in the slot. Also make sure the blade is even and square and is close to the same width of the slot. It is OK if it is a little narrow as long as it produces the needed leverage against the slot.
Thank you Sir!
...and thank you for your interest in FOC
Thanks so much. Going to follow this to fix a counter which won't reset to 0 properly.
Good to hear the video might help.
I managed to get the plate off an A16 back ( Old style with no 'darkslide holder') and lubricated the cogs with a small amount of sewing machine oil on a fine brush and did not disturb anything -- so now it winds on 'sweetly' BUT i have the A12 and a newer A16 back with the black plastic darkslide holder and I cannot fathom how to remove it to take off the side plate with the winding handle. Can you please advise how to remove the darkslide holder ?
Use a screwdriver below the chrome edge and pry up. It looks like one piece but is actually two.
I recently acquired a Hasselblad EL/M that seems to have overlapping frames 1 & 2 and would like to try repairing this myself using your wonderfully instructive video. One thing puzzles me though: you say the frame counter has a 'sweet spot'; but how do you make sure it is actually positioned correctly?
Well... nothing exact. Experimentation finds it eventually... experience sometimes finds it on the first try. Thank you for your comment and for your interest in FOC.
Thank you for the sharing. Just wondering, for 1st and 2nd frame overlapping, whether it would work by winding the arrow on film say 90 degrees past the arrow on the film back
Not sure. Typically there are only a couple of things that will cause overlapping frames. The dog leg lever is sticking or deformed. Lubricate the little dog leg on the top of the lower winding gear and more than likely this will correct the overlap issue. This little procedure will also usually fix frames that just touch as well. Or the plastic dog leg will occasionally be dented at the contact point. If so it is best to replace the dog leg lever by removing the C-ring retainer. I
Thanks for the reply!!
No. The relative positions would all stay the same.
But is there a way to test the frame spacing before putting everything back together or before having to run a film through?
Would this overlap framing issue apply if the same pair of frames (eg 7,8) are constantly overlapping, but not others?
Most likely it would.
Great videos. Just got my grandfather's voightlander vsl1. He run over it with his car and I've been trying to fix it. I did fix the lens (Color Ultron 1.8/50) with another broken donor I got from ebay. Now It has some issue with the lightmeter. I checked the battery but no rust or battery oxide is present. What could I check?
Check for damaged wire leads across the top of the prism. Continuity of the CDS cell unit ( the resistance should change with the intensity of light) Check the switch that is engaged by moving the advance lever to the ready position. The meter circuit and galvanometer could have also been damaged by the impact.
Thanks, I'll do so.
What are those needle nose pliers you use on min 2:25? I looked for something like this but never found some. Are they self made?
Xuron Tweezer Nose 450 pliers. Modified slightly.
Fix Old Cameras Thanks :)
Fix old cameras Any chance of doing the Canon F1 old shutter capping fix
Thank you for your suggestion. There are so many videos waiting to be done. Another good one.
I have the problem of overlapping images with my Hass and stumbled upon this video and thought my problems are gone.
But, I was stuck on the second step...
The first one is to remove the leather, so I did.
But after removing it I found out that I don't have the three screws! There are no screws under the leather. Nothing.
The back seems to me to be a genuine one but maybe an older variant, not the one from this video.
Couldn't find any instructions on the web on how to open it.
Please help.
Really well done. Wish I had this video when I was working out how to service my backs a few months ago :)
One thing you might want to mention: The lower wind gear needs to be placed back into the back such that the notched out portion that interacts with the body is in the right position. It looks like this video you had it in the wrong position, then in the next cut it was put in the right position. The Hasselblad repair pamphlet, which can be found online shows roughly the angle that notched out portion of the gear needs to be at.
The position of the timing of the lower wind gear post is mentioned and demonstrated in the reassembly portion of this video. It is important and your sharp eye and your experience will be helpful to others attempting to work on their Hasselblad film backs. Thank you for your comments and interest in Fix Old Cameras
I had another problem that i solved because of this video - was simply a spring that had detached itself. However another problem have occured: I cannot fit the side plate back on. It just seems a tiny bit too big for the plate now. Which is strange.
Rotate the wind lever as you gently seat the side plate, that will help the wind lever engage with the wind ratchet gear unit.
What oil and grease is best for a fix like this?
Nyoil. available here www.amazon.com/shop/fixoldcameras?ref=ac_inf_hm_vp
or a light sewing machine oil...
This is like watchmaking but on a larger scale. :)
my camera will not winded with film back on once I remove the back it works so I think it the film back it look to be fine but when put back on the camera it will start to wind 1/4 then stop
Probably have an issue with the film back. Typically when the back jams up immediately or after shooting a frame or two it is the return gear spring. It is either broken or come loose. You can check this by holding the film back so you are looking at the face plate (focal plane) and pushing the gear so it rotates up towards the top of the magazine. It should snap back in place with authority.
Video very helpful, thank you very much. I followed the tutorial to fix my magazine 12, but unfortunately it still has an uneven spacing between frames 3 and 9. Everything looks correct, even I changed the nylon stopper piece, but I realized that maybe my problem is with the wheel under the counter dial. It has saw tooth underneath and some of them look worn. They are 6 and seem to coincide with the frames that give me failure. But I do not know if this wheel comes like this from the factory, if it is worn (it does not seem to be worn, have defined edges) or if someone repaired the magazine previously and confused the wheel with of another magazine, such as the A16 or A24. Could you confirm if the original wheel looks like mine in the photo? or what other failure can cause this? Thanks a lot. ibb.co/6Ft0gTC
It seems unlikely due the nature of the functionality of the counter mechanisms in Hasselblad backs the gear teeth are worn. You will encounter differences in the counter stop gears between the various versions and some do have variances in the size and shape of the cogs. It also seems unlikely that and incorrect gear was installed for it seems it would not function at all. It is appreciated that you were simply trying to clarify your repair issue, but due time constraints FOC does not follow links to pictures or videos and included links will often block your Post. Spacing issues are generally caused by the little lever on the of the lower winding gear also make sure the little cog on the bridge plate is moving freely. The "sweet spot" on the counter dial might be tweaked - loosen the three screws that hold the counter dial and a slightly different position either direction.
I was wrong- there IS a "sweet spot". If you make the gap too big so that frame 1 comes very early, the winder locks on frame 1while the status flag is still black, so it looks like there is no film when there is. So you have to set the dial so that the winder locks only just after the flag flips to white. That should still leave a gap between frames 1 and 2, the object of the exercise. Another tip: you can check the position of the frames without having to expose rolls of film as follows. Wind a length of backing paper onto an empty spool and load it in the normal way. Remove the back, take out the dark slide and mark the position of frame 1 by very lightly scoring the paper with a screwdriver along the edges of the frame. Insert the dark slide, replace the back, take out the dark slide, fire the shutter, advance to frame 2, replace the dark slide, remove the back, remove the dark slide, and mark the position of frame 2 on the paper. Unload, unwind the paper and look at the marks you have made. Again I thank you. I'm off to Portugal now with 20 or so rolls of Ektar and FP4. Only my lack of photographic talent can spoil things now!
Thank you the additional comments and it is good to hear of your successful repair. "Off to Portugal" sounds like to much fun and keep'em going.