I'm a biased generic-lover. They seemed to die in 2.5 almost entirely due to the loss in point granularity. There just doesn't always exist a way to increase loadout value or slots to compensate for those gigantic ship point buckets. Make the ship point scale go to 50, 100, 200, or even 1000 - and now Oli & XWA have the toolset to make generics appropriate. As an aside, my game groups are very casual and so being able to walk a player through a ships abilities with generics is a godsend. "OK cool, so yeah that's what an X-wing or a Fang Fighter does. And yup you have 4 of them that all do the same thing, let's play!" Now, sure you can just do whatever you damn well please in a casual setting, but if I were to ever have a half-chance in hell of bringing one of those folks to a tourney, I'd love to have some 'viable' generic list that could still reasonably exist in the meta.
*Viktor Hel: "When defending, if you do not roll exactly two defense dice, the attacker gains 1 Stress token" *Separatist Rogues do NOT have Dead to Rights except Cad and Durge. The IGs all have Networked Calculations
The republic nerfs were hard to swallow, minus the arcs (we know what they did), but i'm glad to see the 7B's are more viable now. But what were they thinking with the ETA-2's??? Arguably one of the hardest ships to fly properly and now you can't add any customization to the 4 point ones. I thought the whole premise of this points update was to be able to fly different stuff, but if you can only use the same 2 upgrades on a ship what's so different about that? I get that when flown correctly they can be a pain, but for the average player there is no point flying them anymore.
Props to you for going through that all. I didn't see a cut in there so clearly you had to one take this. I think this is a really good venture in micro and macro. Reactions were very micro to the ships, as of course they're gonna be when you're going through things one at a time. I think if you take a step back and take in the changes as a whole you'll see more of what's really happening. For example, in general a lot of things got nerfed, this means things that stayed the same, naturally got buffed. But just looking at blue and red would never reveal that. When you're readjusting the power level, you don't have the luxury of taking it a ship at a time, because a change in 3 dice ships in Rebels, necessarily means that to keep a power level, you need some options in other factions within the same range. I see benjamin below reacting to ETAs, Etas are a perfect example of the philosophy here: Choice They give you a choice of a cheaper custom version with a little loadout, or the fully loaded SL versions for a point more. 4 points for an i6 is really good. Notice no one complaining about Soontir at 4/1 but Anakin 4/3 is a huge issue? And then if you want the toys, including Regen, pay for it. We need to get X-Wing players used to actually having to pay for things. For too long we've all been spoiled by ships that not only are defensive, but have torps, and can double mod themselves, and regen, and ion, and preposition, and ... and.... etc, for cheap. It's led to the meta now where it's the same list in every faction and GTs are just two factions and two lists playing each other 100 times. As a streamer, it's boring. It's also bad for the game. It's only been a day, and anything can happen but in the 20 or so games I've observed so far I've seen ships I haven't seen since the before times. Also as someone who started playing in 2.0, I find it very funny people's reactions to things that I guess were really good in 1.0, like K-Wings, it's like a sharead PTSD from an old war. I feel like K-Wings hurt a lot of people and they'll never trust them again.
Oh yeah, this was one take, and I've suffered for it today XD - there was a moment probably visible on screen where I had a full-on "Oh $#@&" realizing how long it took to even *get to* Pilot points. I could have broken it up, but then it would have taken all week and I would have lost the flow. I DO need to add chapter markers though... You're right of course, this whole video was about the exact numbers and a stream-of-conciousness about them card by card. I think I even made a comment on Fangs about their biggest counters getting nerfed, so changed or not, Fangs end up buffed. I'll be doing at least one Faction deep-dive with some list building, digging in a bit more into how the pieces fit together. On the whole I'm really pleased with the changes and the direction they're "pointing," I hope that came across. Appreciate the comment, I love your work!
...and yes, Extended often reminds me of 1.0 trauma. I stick up for the game version iteration, in part, because of way too many horrible play experiences I remember from back then. NymRanda being by a mile my most unpleasant. It was also a big stretch of time where every ship that came out was super obscure - to this day I've never seen several of those Extended ships in any other media than X-wing. All that said, I *really* miss my Lancer, the Quadjumper, Aggressors, Phantoms, G1-As. Even the kirhaxz (?) and Star Fortress. Really glad to see them back on the list!
It means all ships that can take the upgrade on multiple ships in the list, you have to. Ex. If you bring two customizable RZ-1 Rebel A-Wings and put Vectored Cannons on one, you have to put it on both. You can get around it a bit with Standard Loadout cards. Since they aren't customizable they don't have to take Standardized upgrades or force custom pilots to.
...see also "Standard" is the ships and upgrades that are currently tournament legal (as of X-wing 2.5 only ships that have been rereleased since 2.0 - and not counting conversion kits - are Standard. The rest are Extended)
...see also also "Standardized Loadouts" or SL's are big format pilot cards where the upgrades are built-in and can't be changed (Battle of Yavin Luke for example) In the video I meant standard as in tournament legal, but just answered all the possible options here XD
I'm a biased generic-lover. They seemed to die in 2.5 almost entirely due to the loss in point granularity. There just doesn't always exist a way to increase loadout value or slots to compensate for those gigantic ship point buckets. Make the ship point scale go to 50, 100, 200, or even 1000 - and now Oli & XWA have the toolset to make generics appropriate.
As an aside, my game groups are very casual and so being able to walk a player through a ships abilities with generics is a godsend. "OK cool, so yeah that's what an X-wing or a Fang Fighter does. And yup you have 4 of them that all do the same thing, let's play!" Now, sure you can just do whatever you damn well please in a casual setting, but if I were to ever have a half-chance in hell of bringing one of those folks to a tourney, I'd love to have some 'viable' generic list that could still reasonably exist in the meta.
*Just added Chapters for anyone who wants to jump to specific Factions!
*Viktor Hel: "When defending, if you do not roll exactly two defense dice, the attacker gains 1 Stress token"
*Separatist Rogues do NOT have Dead to Rights except Cad and Durge. The IGs all have Networked Calculations
The republic nerfs were hard to swallow, minus the arcs (we know what they did), but i'm glad to see the 7B's are more viable now. But what were they thinking with the ETA-2's??? Arguably one of the hardest ships to fly properly and now you can't add any customization to the 4 point ones. I thought the whole premise of this points update was to be able to fly different stuff, but if you can only use the same 2 upgrades on a ship what's so different about that? I get that when flown correctly they can be a pain, but for the average player there is no point flying them anymore.
I'm pretty shocked by the ETA changes. But it's not a ship I personally can fly, so surely there's just something I don't know ;)
Props to you for going through that all. I didn't see a cut in there so clearly you had to one take this.
I think this is a really good venture in micro and macro. Reactions were very micro to the ships, as of course they're gonna be when you're going through things one at a time. I think if you take a step back and take in the changes as a whole you'll see more of what's really happening. For example, in general a lot of things got nerfed, this means things that stayed the same, naturally got buffed. But just looking at blue and red would never reveal that. When you're readjusting the power level, you don't have the luxury of taking it a ship at a time, because a change in 3 dice ships in Rebels, necessarily means that to keep a power level, you need some options in other factions within the same range.
I see benjamin below reacting to ETAs, Etas are a perfect example of the philosophy here: Choice
They give you a choice of a cheaper custom version with a little loadout, or the fully loaded SL versions for a point more. 4 points for an i6 is really good. Notice no one complaining about Soontir at 4/1 but Anakin 4/3 is a huge issue? And then if you want the toys, including Regen, pay for it. We need to get X-Wing players used to actually having to pay for things. For too long we've all been spoiled by ships that not only are defensive, but have torps, and can double mod themselves, and regen, and ion, and preposition, and ... and.... etc, for cheap. It's led to the meta now where it's the same list in every faction and GTs are just two factions and two lists playing each other 100 times. As a streamer, it's boring. It's also bad for the game.
It's only been a day, and anything can happen but in the 20 or so games I've observed so far I've seen ships I haven't seen since the before times.
Also as someone who started playing in 2.0, I find it very funny people's reactions to things that I guess were really good in 1.0, like K-Wings, it's like a sharead PTSD from an old war. I feel like K-Wings hurt a lot of people and they'll never trust them again.
Oh yeah, this was one take, and I've suffered for it today XD - there was a moment probably visible on screen where I had a full-on "Oh $#@&" realizing how long it took to even *get to* Pilot points. I could have broken it up, but then it would have taken all week and I would have lost the flow. I DO need to add chapter markers though...
You're right of course, this whole video was about the exact numbers and a stream-of-conciousness about them card by card. I think I even made a comment on Fangs about their biggest counters getting nerfed, so changed or not, Fangs end up buffed.
I'll be doing at least one Faction deep-dive with some list building, digging in a bit more into how the pieces fit together. On the whole I'm really pleased with the changes and the direction they're "pointing," I hope that came across.
Appreciate the comment, I love your work!
...and yes, Extended often reminds me of 1.0 trauma. I stick up for the game version iteration, in part, because of way too many horrible play experiences I remember from back then. NymRanda being by a mile my most unpleasant. It was also a big stretch of time where every ship that came out was super obscure - to this day I've never seen several of those Extended ships in any other media than X-wing.
All that said, I *really* miss my Lancer, the Quadjumper, Aggressors, Phantoms, G1-As. Even the kirhaxz (?) and Star Fortress. Really glad to see them back on the list!
You had to be there, man! Bombs and lasers EVERYWHERE!
I have all the ships please bring talaban cobra back let him keep his ability and we good
I mean, yeah! He is! Unchanged, and the XWA version of the game doesn't have a split between "Standard" and "Extended" - so go nuts :D
27:12 what does standardised mean? no idea from reading any of rules and seen it a few times
It means all ships that can take the upgrade on multiple ships in the list, you have to.
Ex. If you bring two customizable RZ-1 Rebel A-Wings and put Vectored Cannons on one, you have to put it on both.
You can get around it a bit with Standard Loadout cards. Since they aren't customizable they don't have to take Standardized upgrades or force custom pilots to.
...see also "Standard" is the ships and upgrades that are currently tournament legal (as of X-wing 2.5 only ships that have been rereleased since 2.0 - and not counting conversion kits - are Standard. The rest are Extended)
...see also also "Standardized Loadouts" or SL's are big format pilot cards where the upgrades are built-in and can't be changed (Battle of Yavin Luke for example)
In the video I meant standard as in tournament legal, but just answered all the possible options here XD
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Yer a wizard, Bobobo!