Ive just started as a commissioning engineer and currently doing a lot of training with one of the biggest players in the lighting controls market. Really interesting work.
DALI is great kit and installed in all of our projects. A lot of people don’t know about it which has always surprised me with all of its benefits. Great video guys.
A common arrangement in NZ has been to run normal cable (red as active) and then a separate 2 core cable (red and white) for DALI control. Which leads to the situation you mention - possibility of DALI becoming live to mains voltage. Supposedly it won't damage equipment, but absolutely isolate properly. I did one job where we ran 4 core and earth cable, with phase 2 and 3 being used for DALI, and installed that into sockets that had extra pins for it too. Prep the driver on the ground, plug it in and install into grid ceiling, super easy. Some people don't do that because they think its cheaper to go with two separate cables, but the labour savings more than make up for it.
Not all Dali systems can handle 64 input devices, ie PIR's switch interfaces and scene plates so check with the system provider. Also Dali systems can have emergency monitoring so if you have a Dali fitting with a Dali driver and Dali inverter that fitting will count as 2 addresses of you 64.
To get around LED dimming in a domestic setting ive used dali drivers for downlights and dimmed on a standard 1-10v dimmer. Works a treat. Even better the drivers went spare on the day job!
I've heard people complain that the DALI protocol is incredibly slow. Well compared with DMX that's true but at 1,200 baud it'll still be working 600 times faster than you can flick switches!
At 6:00 you said that the Dali signal isn't polarity sensitive. I can guarantee you that if you mix the polarity it will not work. I always use black as minus (like in dc) and grey as positive. If i add another light where i switch it to grey aas minus and black as positive it will not work, i know from experience having to open several lights to figure out which one the apprentice miswired.
A Dali device that is not adding power to the system (led driver, panel, sensor, relay etc.) is not polarity dependent. It is only in the rare cases where you have two power supply then they needs to be connected to match polarity. Saying that I do agree that in any system having a consistent polarity as you said black as minus is best practise regardless of polarity sensitivity or not. Most manufacturers have +/- or D1/D2 printed on the connectors to aid installers with this. From your experience with fittings and problems with polarity it sounds like the drivers them self provides power to the system and yes then they must be connected with the same polarity.
Any advice on fault finding or faulty components. We have a building with dali controls, 1 controller failed last year leaving the whole building in darkness,its taken ages to get parts as the system is an old one.
The basic function of dali is the broadcast feature - in fault finding a dali power supply and a slider/rotary or the combo is a effective and basic way of testing - it will identify any loads that will not respond making it easier to identify the problem. Next step would be a pc software to connect and diagnose. Question what system do you have?
My only gripe with Dali systems is the 6 pin plug. The pins are grouped into 2 groups of 3 - one part being black (the mains wiring) and one part being blue (the Dali wiring) BUT the blue part isn't only for Dali, it also has the permanent live. And as I recently had to correct far too many plugs incorrectly connected my gripe is really big. - Why did someone decide the blue part would have 3 terminals, why not just for the 2 Dali conductors? The flex7 plugs are better. You simply have to read the legend embossed into the lid.
How do we maintain this equipment? In a few years time, it is going to break down. Is the equipment standardized,or is it esoteric to each manufactures,? I. E. Can we just go to the van and get a new module?
As many other things this depends on the original installation and they system being used - I have mostly used the Helvar router system and if a device goes missing ( breaks) and you connect a replacement the router will assume the new one is a replacement. This is a option you can disable. Honesty most time I just connect to the system and make sure any devices are programmed as intended, today I think this is true for most larger scale control systems.
Baudrate is much slower, meaning you can bundel he data lines with the current wires. It's the best system there is because of this. It's balance of speed and reliability.
@@syproful DMX is differential so can be run alongside conductor wires as well, many claim it's a bad ide but that's complete rubbish. The main issue with DMX is lack of error checking/correction, it's normally one way (unless you use RDM which is a clunky bodge) and doesn't have built in features for zone control. It's not specifically the baud rate with Dali but the fact that it uses fairly high voltage signalling (0-16v).
Continue the series
DALI wiring
th-cam.com/video/XmucYqxYEH4/w-d-xo.html
Lighting control techniques
th-cam.com/video/XmucYqxYEH4/w-d-xo.html
Same link to both video series?
Ive just started as a commissioning engineer and currently doing a lot of training with one of the biggest players in the lighting controls market. Really interesting work.
knx and dali is a dream and the absolute standard for the last 10years in most premium houses. This is a great video.
DALI is great kit and installed in all of our projects. A lot of people don’t know about it which has always surprised me with all of its benefits. Great video guys.
A common arrangement in NZ has been to run normal cable (red as active) and then a separate 2 core cable (red and white) for DALI control. Which leads to the situation you mention - possibility of DALI becoming live to mains voltage. Supposedly it won't damage equipment, but absolutely isolate properly.
I did one job where we ran 4 core and earth cable, with phase 2 and 3 being used for DALI, and installed that into sockets that had extra pins for it too. Prep the driver on the ground, plug it in and install into grid ceiling, super easy. Some people don't do that because they think its cheaper to go with two separate cables, but the labour savings more than make up for it.
Work in one of the biggest shopping centres in Europe and it’s everywhere, really looking forward towards future videos!!!
Thank god I retire next year. I can't wait!!!!!
It's great that you've started series of videos with DALI. Your fan, boys! Fault finding with this system would be beneficial for your channel.
Not all Dali systems can handle 64 input devices, ie PIR's switch interfaces and scene plates so check with the system provider.
Also Dali systems can have emergency monitoring so if you have a Dali fitting with a Dali driver and Dali inverter that fitting will count as 2 addresses of you 64.
Very useful! I've been in the lighting industry a long time and this was eloquent.
To get around LED dimming in a domestic setting ive used dali drivers for downlights and dimmed on a standard 1-10v dimmer. Works a treat. Even better the drivers went spare on the day job!
I've heard people complain that the DALI protocol is incredibly slow. Well compared with DMX that's true but at 1,200 baud it'll still be working 600 times faster than you can flick switches!
great video! although i do not have an engineering background (stage lighting background) this video was super helpful to understand DALI
Thank you for the great explanation and visuals! very helpful and entertaining at the same time
Glad it was helpful!
At 6:00 you said that the Dali signal isn't polarity sensitive. I can guarantee you that if you mix the polarity it will not work. I always use black as minus (like in dc) and grey as positive. If i add another light where i switch it to grey aas minus and black as positive it will not work, i know from experience having to open several lights to figure out which one the apprentice miswired.
A Dali device that is not adding power to the system (led driver, panel, sensor, relay etc.) is not polarity dependent. It is only in the rare cases where you have two power supply then they needs to be connected to match polarity. Saying that I do agree that in any system having a consistent polarity as you said black as minus is best practise regardless of polarity sensitivity or not. Most manufacturers have +/- or D1/D2 printed on the connectors to aid installers with this. From your experience with fittings and problems with polarity it sounds like the drivers them self provides power to the system and yes then they must be connected with the same polarity.
Any advice on fault finding or faulty components. We have a building with dali controls, 1 controller failed last year leaving the whole building in darkness,its taken ages to get parts as the system is an old one.
The basic function of dali is the broadcast feature - in fault finding a dali power supply and a slider/rotary or the combo is a effective and basic way of testing - it will identify any loads that will not respond making it easier to identify the problem. Next step would be a pc software to connect and diagnose. Question what system do you have?
DALI combined with EIB/KNX is also an excellent solution.
Will Dali bus work on AWG23 (Cat 7 cable)?
How would you install DALI lighting controls on lights in a house with a 3 phase incoming supply?
I need to know if Dali system can be connected using 1.5sqmm electrical cable or special cable is required
Regular cable is fine.
What is purpose of dali cable if not required??
My only gripe with Dali systems is the 6 pin plug. The pins are grouped into 2 groups of 3 - one part being black (the mains wiring) and one part being blue (the Dali wiring) BUT the blue part isn't only for Dali, it also has the permanent live.
And as I recently had to correct far too many plugs incorrectly connected my gripe is really big. - Why did someone decide the blue part would have 3 terminals, why not just for the 2 Dali conductors?
The flex7 plugs are better. You simply have to read the legend embossed into the lid.
How do we maintain this equipment? In a few years time, it is going to break down. Is the equipment standardized,or is it esoteric to each manufactures,? I. E. Can we just go to the van and get a new module?
As many other things this depends on the original installation and they system being used - I have mostly used the Helvar router system and if a device goes missing ( breaks) and you connect a replacement the router will assume the new one is a replacement. This is a option you can disable. Honesty most time I just connect to the system and make sure any devices are programmed as intended, today I think this is true for most larger scale control systems.
Very interesting.
Fantastic video
Thanks! 😃
Hi Guys do you know of any training concerning DALI
Perfect 👌
Light circuits are invariably spur-wired, not ring circuits...
"This system worked for 100s of years" I guess he is also hundreds years old so with electricity...
Interesting
Can you do a LUTRON guide next? Don’t blame you if you back heel the request 😂
Homework’s or Ra2 ?
@@efixx Quantum is the system I’m dealing with. One of their commercial lighting products
What's wrong with DMX
Nothing but Dali had more flexibility for wiring.,
Baudrate is much slower, meaning you can bundel he data lines with the current wires. It's the best system there is because of this. It's balance of speed and reliability.
@@syproful DMX is differential so can be run alongside conductor wires as well, many claim it's a bad ide but that's complete rubbish. The main issue with DMX is lack of error checking/correction, it's normally one way (unless you use RDM which is a clunky bodge) and doesn't have built in features for zone control. It's not specifically the baud rate with Dali but the fact that it uses fairly high voltage signalling (0-16v).
wonder why did they invent DALI when DMX512 existed already
Mentioning rings almost ruined the video.
I have to work with this shit and it’s bloody awful