Nonbelief Revisited: The Ghost of Veritas48

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 667

  • @ThePzychotic
    @ThePzychotic 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great to see you back Scott! The most articulate TH-cam atheist I have ever had the pleasure of watching, and this is another excellent rebuttal. Your sound logical and rational approach to the presentation of your arguments makes them a joy to watch.

  • @Fatalotti
    @Fatalotti 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very well put. Good to see you're back doing videos, and I hope you post a bit more frequently. Always enjoy listening to you.

  • @MikeScarbro
    @MikeScarbro 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    TBS, I'm always happy to see your videos in my sub box! Thanks for taking the time to make such carefully reasoned arguments. More than once, I've used your videos as a starting point for arguments with my religious friends and they have been truly helpful in articulating my thoughts better than I ever could have.

  • @DickJohnson3434
    @DickJohnson3434 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I haven't watched it yet but I wanted to say thank you for making another video. I look forward to your videos more than anything on youtube.

  • @ixamraxi
    @ixamraxi 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I swear I started watching this video and after what seemed like five minutes, over thirty had passed. Profound and eloquent as always Scott.

  • @cloudstone123
    @cloudstone123 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow! So good to see you back. I think everyone missed hearing your thought provoking insights.

  • @MagorianAx
    @MagorianAx 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a coincidence! I just finished scripting a video in which I planned to link to your original video on the subject (along with dasamericanatheist's formulation of the argument). Now it looks as though I'll be adding this one too. Great to see you posting again, and glad to hear that you're working plenty. No better reason to take breaks from youtube.

  • @Blackmark52
    @Blackmark52 12 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    "Why, oh why, can't I make a video under 10 minutes anymore?"
    So what?? You are one of only a few that never seems to speak too long. Your delivery is quick, concise, and thought provoking. That's what counts Thanks for the upload and kudos.

  • @Mstrp2ez
    @Mstrp2ez 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just saw you on the tv-machine, and now you are here on youtube talking, it's like magic.

  • @TheNeognostic
    @TheNeognostic 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Glad to see you back on here - no matter how brief this spur of posting may be... :)

  • @Vassago85
    @Vassago85 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good to listen to and see you again ... my brain feels kinda combed through each time I listen to you :)

  • @Dragon0007
    @Dragon0007 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I've reached the end of the videooo!! I loved it!!! and yet this is also a sad moment as I know another video will not come for soooooooooooooooooo soooo long!! Now I wish I hadn't watched it just so I could still potentially watch it.

  • @AnthonyAvon
    @AnthonyAvon 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    When I saw your video it felt like Christmas, new year, and my birthday at the same time!

  • @noelplum99
    @noelplum99 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if this may lure noah back onto YT? Would be nice to see him return.
    Great video, as always i appreciate your attention to detail.

  • @drgoldteef
    @drgoldteef 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good to see you back, Scott. We are all happy to learn that your mind isn't wasting away on the set of soap operas. Also, judging from the echo in your (new?) condo, you either upgraded in size, or you need more furniture!

  • @jonhanson6690
    @jonhanson6690 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wonderful video, and it's really great to see you back, even if it's just for this one video.

  • @Chadeyes4
    @Chadeyes4 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, over 3.000 views in just about 24 hours...glad to see others missed your videos as much as I have. Thanks.

  • @DavidRandallCurtis
    @DavidRandallCurtis 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I demand all future videos be over 30 minutes! Great work here... :P

  • @Gpacharlie
    @Gpacharlie 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where would you recommend someone who is interested in your thoughts begin watching? Do your videos go chronologically from a main thesis?

  • @LJonYT
    @LJonYT 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    For some reason it made me happy that you had to look up a word and a word I've been meaning to look up at that.
    This was especially fun to watch having hung out with Noah a few times now myself. He's a good kid, so are you.

  • @TheIdealGasLaw
    @TheIdealGasLaw 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey, TBS, what's your job, what do you do for a living and how long does (did) it take you to come up with these arguments. By the way I'm glad you made another video I think you stop around the time I subed to you, you're one of my favorate youtubers because of how well put your arguments are, and maybe it's just because I don't really look for videos like yours, but I'm still glad to see your face again.

  • @skywize
    @skywize 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well spoken and, as usual, thorough as hell. This argument still seems to come back to (generally speaking), the impotent, ignorant or imaginary argument... I guess most do. Either that or Pascal.

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  12 ปีที่แล้ว

    @Sethorin I actually reject the idea of "free will" completely, but I'm assuming it for the sake of argument in this video. Maybe I'll do a video about it someday. Good catch. (Yeah, I've seen Harris' lecture on it. Thought it was great.)

  • @BabyfartMcGeesak
    @BabyfartMcGeesak 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good to see you back. Saw you on TV about a year ago. Had a 'not bad face' moment.

  • @cccar67
    @cccar67 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Glad to see you're back, even if from time to time. I place you along side Dawkins, Harris, Ehrman, etc. etc. I'm in my 70's and spent about 45 years entrenched as a strong born-again Christian. Coming out was a process but an enjoyable time in a reading/studying frenzy(which continues). Lots of WOW moments! Today I'm FREE and love listening to you. Keep up the good work of clearly explaining and presenting such solid logical arguments.

  • @screenflicker1
    @screenflicker1 9 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Scott you're smarter at 30 than i'm at 40! I wish I could articulate my thoughts so well! I also wish I had 20% of your looks.

  • @nonfictions
    @nonfictions 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's okay that you're absent. You have a 100+ videos for us to enjoy AND you have a life outside of youtube. Take however long of an hiatus you need ... but I'm glad you're back.

  • @Sethorin
    @Sethorin 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I finished watching Veritas' response (to catch up) thinking, "Man. how the hell is Scott gonna tackle this one?", and yet. like always, you managed it beautifully! I especially liked the part about the involuntary nature of belief-forming. An interesting side-note: that conclusion may actually negate free will entirely, though you do profess a belief in free will (regarding actions) in this video. Have you watched Sam Harris' lecture on the illusion of free will? It's quite intriguing.

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    "Belief is an involuntary reaction created when our minds are exposed to new external information or reasoning."
    Yeah, sure, I guess. There are lots of ways for our beliefs to change, though. I wouldn't try to pin it down on one given phenomenon or another.

  • @JakeTurnerhyperion
    @JakeTurnerhyperion 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are you back? Nice to see a video up from you again.

  • @DumbDesign
    @DumbDesign 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very glad to see you back, Scott. I hope we see more of your excellent videos in the summer!

  • @TheDemonsHaveMe
    @TheDemonsHaveMe 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Glad to see a new video! If you can, you should get Noah/Veritas48 to come and make a video with you. Would love to see how much his views have changed and see you two discuss things in a "live" conversation.

  • @aaronbeal2794
    @aaronbeal2794 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Vimeo link is dead. Apparently the video was taken down about a week ago, on the 4th.

  • @LetReasonPrevail1
    @LetReasonPrevail1 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I gotta say, it gives me hope and makes me just a bit more optimistic about the overriding power of humanity to hear that you and Noah have struck up an amiable friendship in spite of the fact that as best I can tell you have utterly shreaded every one of his arguments that you've ever decided to rebut.
    Maybe we can all get along after all as Rodney King once pleaded!
    Thanks for sharing that tidbit of people-affirming information.

  • @jillum89
    @jillum89 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    On the subject of this god having a sufficient reason for allowing nonbelief and allowing this and that ... I have to say that I don’t agree with that and I think it might be all wrong. We _humans_ have sometimes sufficient reasons for the harm we cause or inflict. Because we have no other option. We’re limited in our power. Doctors cause harm all the time; they cut people open, they cause them pain, they do things that lead to side effects, and the patients end up scared, and sometimes mentally too. But. This is the only way we can perform operations. So we allow this. But gods have no such excuse. They are omnipotent. If a god performed an operation with knives and drugs and all, that is by definition unnecessary harm. Even if the patient ends up with as much as a hiccup, that’s unnecessary. It’s within the power of gods to solve problems without any harm. They are omnipotent. They are capable of doing anything. By the very definition of omnipotence and omnibenevolence; it’s incoherent to say ‘God had reason X Y or Z to allow or cause this harm’.

  • @loralogue
    @loralogue 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    You've been busy working? I know. I've been watching non-stop Hope/Liam/Steffy plotlines for a gajilllion years! Plus I live in Australia, so everything is released about 3 months delayed and I'm still right in the middle of it. Haha.
    Anyway, I'm glad you're back, and I hope you're going to continue making videos more regularly. I need my fix of intelligent arguments!

  • @BigLundi
    @BigLundi 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ok, would you mind expanding on how rationality is undermined by deterministic thoguht processes under the problem of criterion? IT seems to me the answer to the problem under determinism is answered as methodistic, almost by definition.

  • @standoughope
    @standoughope 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Scott, you've made my day by uploading a video and clearly I'm not alone. The only thing I dislike about you is that listening to you makes me feel so unintelligent... ugh =)

  • @trippedbreaker
    @trippedbreaker 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really glad to see you posting videos again. One nitpick, only because it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. You say that knowledge and belief are essentially indistinguishable, and I agree. At 5:58 however, you suggest that "knowledge" is basically "belief" that's "actually true". It seems preferable to say that the difference between knowledge and belief is really about degrees of certainty, not about truth. Many people "know" that dowsing is effective, for example.

  • @memoryhero
    @memoryhero 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's a fair question to ask, given the premise. My first two responses were tackling your definitions of "belief-without-proof, reality denial, belief in the face of contradictory facts or absent data" in your first post. That definition muddied the grander point I ultimately understood you were making.

  • @JaredTheStrange
    @JaredTheStrange 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    The amount of thought and effort you put into sharing your ideas with the rest of us is really admirable and most definitely appreciated!

  • @capoman1
    @capoman1 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey. Great to see you back. I know how things can be. Hope to see some more videos, seriously.

  • @gavinplaysbass
    @gavinplaysbass 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd like to see you write a book on this and related topics. I think your youtube channel has much of the work already in it waiting to be transcribed.

  • @Greg_Ulmer
    @Greg_Ulmer 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why has this video showed up on my home page as "uploaded" four times now?

  • @nottilthursday
    @nottilthursday 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    In these years of my subscription, the dissonance of seeing your face both on the breakroom TVs at work and on here, as it gushes one of the most rational voices on the internet, has never receded beyond surreal.

  • @steinarrexfaroensis
    @steinarrexfaroensis 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude.. Where did you get that shirt? I love it!

  • @Martial-Mat
    @Martial-Mat 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    So great to see you back. I really admire your use of vocabulary, and your capacity for rational deconstruction.

  • @cristianfcao
    @cristianfcao 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does anyone know where can I reach Noah? Does he have a blog, forum, youtube/vimeo channel? I was sure he'd change his views at some point and I'm very curious about what his views about religion are now.

  • @rnoodle3
    @rnoodle3 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your videos...and I am a non-christian, non-mainstream religion believer in a loving God. My God loves this type of debate and holds no judgment against, nor condemns nonbelievers. The True Gnostic Church. Keep up the good debate. You're just scratching the surface. Regards! Noodle

  • @ZekkMixes
    @ZekkMixes 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Any chance we'll be getting any new videos anytime soon?

  • @mandyeveritt
    @mandyeveritt 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great to see you back! Hope to see some more videos from you!

  • @darktango78
    @darktango78 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's why I put it in quotes. It was Scott's term. I clarified in parenthesis that the view of God having knowledge of what we would freely choose in all possible worlds pertains to Molinism. In any case, the argument stands regardless of what label you want to give the apologetic counter and my subsequent response.

  • @Lumpy_wonder
    @Lumpy_wonder 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks like noah's video is no longer there on vimeo

  • @CaballeroDeLaRazon
    @CaballeroDeLaRazon 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    One thing you didnt mention is that the alcoholic analogy also have a problem because the alcoholic know he drinks. If he acept to call him self alcoholic or not, doesnt matter. He know he drinks. He doesnt have a choice about that.
    Good video men. Glad to see you again making videos

  • @MarkLucasProductions
    @MarkLucasProductions 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    17:35 This is all me! “All belief is involuntary”. You’re saying my main arguments here. The fact that belief is necessarily involuntary means I can’t choose to believe in God any more than Noah can choose to stop believing in God. You’re saying what I would say and you’re saying all that needs to be said.

  • @JJPHILLYLG
    @JJPHILLYLG 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does Veritas48's argument work for the existence of Santa as well?

  • @VIIflegias
    @VIIflegias 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    i know i am not the guy you were talking to, but what you said i found it interesting : how did you reach the 'intelligent decision' of having faith in christianity?

  • @zetox12
    @zetox12 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Christian here, Great video scott I'm glad you're back! Keep up the videos man

  • @BigLundi
    @BigLundi 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    TBS! So glad to see you making videos again. Don't you dare go away again or everyone will cry again.

  • @Bynming
    @Bynming 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the video, well spoken as usual. I don't know how you manage to be so eloquent.

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  12 ปีที่แล้ว

    @SisyphusRedeemed @SisyphusRedeemed To "follow certain rules of inference", or to "reject evidence in favor of faith", are courses of action. They are not believed propositions. A believed proposition would be, "X is a poor rule of inference". And if you believe this, you cannot suddenly choose to become genuinely convinced that "X is a stellar rule of inference".

  • @thegillotine09
    @thegillotine09 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is definitely the most potent argument or "problem" I've heard for orthodox Christianity. I've actually been getting a lot of people recently asserting that everyone knows "in their heart" that the Christian God exists. At that point, I'm tempted to dismiss them as being disingenuous.

  • @mightyzan1979
    @mightyzan1979 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice to have you back making videos again.

  • @markymarkbb
    @markymarkbb 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Anyone know if he chose yet? I haven't been paying attention.? Did he pick Steffy or Hope?

  • @philosophyman76
    @philosophyman76 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love it. He's asked veritas which video's he's most proud of. Then says, "Hey I never responded to that one. Let me go back and destroy that argument from 2 years ago." lol I know thats not what the thought process was but it's kinda what you did. Congrats on all your success and your career. We miss you on TH-cam.

  • @AscendantCaleb
    @AscendantCaleb 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    The link to Noah's response doesn't work for me. :(

  • @AwesomeNaturalist
    @AwesomeNaturalist 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey, Scott, are you going on The Magic Sandwich Show this weekend?

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Depends on what you mean by "faulted", don't you think?

  • @BionicDance
    @BionicDance 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you have a response to the larger point?

  • @USERCODY
    @USERCODY 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for posting a new video! Good to have you back!

  • @vbfl920
    @vbfl920 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    "The individuals acceptance or denial of their predicament is irrelevant to the diagnosis..."

  • @Furball891
    @Furball891 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good to hear from you again. Once again an interesting video with good points. I enjoyed watching it. :)

  • @MrsCMcNees
    @MrsCMcNees 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh how I've missed you, Scott!! Welcome back!!

  • @standoughope
    @standoughope 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm happy you posted this comment because I too was surprised that you seemed to accept "free will" yourself in this video. Although I'm slightly disappointed because I would have loved to hear you articulate such a position.

  • @colloquialmind2167
    @colloquialmind2167 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Theoretical Bullshit I'm familiar with the fact that beliefs are reflected in our actions, but I was not aware that the brain activity was the same for both belief and knowledge responses. I find that both intuitive and highly disturbing at the same time, but it would explain a lot about human nature.

  • @vbfl920
    @vbfl920 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have to agree with Garret, here, about choosing to believe certain things. Many, many times in our experiences, we see people choose to/ to not believe various things. The example with the alcoholic you addressed for instance, so many people with drinking problems will simply NOT admit that it's a problem. And that's not an action. It's a belief.

  • @MarkLucasProductions
    @MarkLucasProductions 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    From 15:00 to 16:30 your argument about freewill and belief. That’s my argument! The one I think so much depends upon. It shouldn’t be glossed over or only mentioned. It is the crux of the whole Theist / Atheist problem. If someone as articulate as you would thrash it out in all its detail and implications, I cannot see how any theist could resist its explanatory power.

  • @Stringprodigy
    @Stringprodigy 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey man, you were great in Harmful If Swallowed!

  • @TheGildedStar
    @TheGildedStar 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of my favorite uploaders is back! Yay!

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  12 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    For starters, try Googling Sam Harris' doctoral thesis.

  • @Leafypuh
    @Leafypuh 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great to see you back on youtube.

  • @GalapagosPete
    @GalapagosPete 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I do not go along with anyone who asserts that there is anything that *is* unknowable; to know that there are unknowable things would require absolute knowledge, and I haven't heard that anyone has that.

  • @nospacesallowed
    @nospacesallowed 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am not sure if you noticed or cared but TBS responded to you and it for some reason didn't get put under your thread.

  • @itsjustameme
    @itsjustameme 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Waking up and finding TBS in my playlist is only topped by finding Philhellenes there.

  • @ThatDanmGuy
    @ThatDanmGuy 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    So glad to see you back!

  • @AngelOfClarity1089
    @AngelOfClarity1089 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    We need someone like Scott in the White House. Not that cheetah blasted oompah loompah we have now. I would assuredly vote for him.

    • @timpieper5293
      @timpieper5293 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Angel Of Clarity I agree. Or someone like Scott onto the Supreme Court. Could you imagine?
      Btw. I noticed you aren't subscribed to Theramintrees or QualiaSoup. Do yourself a favor and get on their channels. Their content is on the same level of quality of Theoretical Bullshit's content.
      In fact; I recommend you go to my channel and find my "recommended channels" playlist, and take a look at the ones you haven't yet seen before :)
      Peace, friend.

  • @ColinThom89
    @ColinThom89 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    @TheoreticalBullshit Noah's link doesn't work :( Also, great to have you back on youtube!

  • @MumblingMickey
    @MumblingMickey 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    now I am down to only requiring to demonstrate that all things have a beginning...even where there is no cause....
    okay so lets say the universe started. At what point in time was the initial cause of this universe manifest? Can the cause be inside the universe or does it need to be external.
    Well theres no time outside the universe so it can't be there......which puts the cause anywhere from AFTER the start to the end of the universe in chronological time. However time is not linear.

  • @XGralgrathor
    @XGralgrathor 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    @EvangelistEvan
    Hasn't Scott already answered this question in his "treatise on morality" and follow up videos?

  • @bflobribean8811
    @bflobribean8811 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Scott,
    I just wanted to say I only recently discovered you here on TH-cam (I'm the one who's new) and wanted you to know that I really enjoy your postings! Beauty AND brains! WOW! That's a rare combination! LOL
    Seriously, I find your videos VERY enjoyable and enlightening. I can't help but to ask: do you have a degree in philosophy? You're a very good logician. Despite my degree in philosophy, I never was good at debate. I know I let my emotions get in the way. Anyway, keep up the good work!

  • @celtboy
    @celtboy 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic to hear from you again.

  • @andrewwells6323
    @andrewwells6323 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    That simply begs the question; already what's in question is explicitly assumed in the word “start” if you’re an Eternalist or you think that something is in fact eternal then it doesn’t start. It's always been there.

  • @GalapagosPete
    @GalapagosPete 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    That being said, none of that in any way affects my original point, which is that both believers and non-believers can be agnostic.

  • @pieisdeath30
    @pieisdeath30 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    All things would haave to have a beginning otherwise how did they start?

  • @TheoreticalBullshit
    @TheoreticalBullshit  11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm not under that impression (although, a majority of people throughout history certainly haven't "accepted Christ as their savior"). In any case, the ratio of believers to unbelievers is irrelevant to my argument. The existence of any unbelievers at all is enough.

  • @OperatorOscillation
    @OperatorOscillation 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    TBS, you should do a video on whether delusional belief is genuine belief. Personally, I've noticed that people who are deluded don't really care if their beliefs are true or not, which makes you wonder that maybe it is possible to actively believe something just because you want to and you therefore genuinely believe it.

  • @AxeFielder
    @AxeFielder 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    A TBS video? *drops everything*

  • @Chef_JRod
    @Chef_JRod 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember this on my first youtube account.. Holy crap, so much beef. I remember this from 2008... VERITAS

  • @AtheistRex
    @AtheistRex 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Believing in the tooth fairy is foolish and for children."
    Now make your case for the holy spirit.

  • @2012DragonIam777
    @2012DragonIam777 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are you the guy from young and the restless?