Thanks so much. It's so useful getting to hear this as well as just read about it. And your interviewer asked excellent questions, especially for a layperson. I'm going out this moment to taptune a top.
To all the doubters. The hard way to tap tune a guitar is to try and do it remedially after it is made, shaving the braces inside the guitar to alter the tones. This is a slow process that must be done in many little steps to prevent overdoing it. However, I have witnessed many guitars (and other instruments) going from decent to excellent sounding through this process. The results more than speak for themselves. Nobody is ever disappointed by the results.
I really liked this video. I am learning Lutherie on my own and haven't seen this demonstrated like this. My question for Mr. Haight would be: Do you ever reject pieces of wood because of unfavorable tones? If not, then how does going through this process help?
The question I'd have, is whether or not this is really, literally, a tuning of the wood, as much as it is an observation of the final product? For example, if a Luther whittles down a top to the desired specification, how much of the process qualifies as sound shaping, versus observing what the final product sounds like? The builder in the video mentioned a spectrum analyzer. Though I'd question whether this was used to shape the wood, or to visualize an end-result?
I want one, he knows his work well! You mention students, are those students builders or do you just teach them to build their own? I do want one & headed to the site asap!
I recently read that you have stopped building for a while.Shame really ,i have visited your website and can appreciate the beauty of your work and the extra mile you go for your instruments. While i suspect that you will return to guitar making i don't suppose that you are taking on apprenticeships... If that is the case then by chance could you recommend any Luthiers in the Seattle area who might be taking on apprenticeships? Best regards, Luther
A Peterson Strobe Tuner, like the old school spinning disc type (Conn or Peterson 400), or a newer Peterson with a Tap Tuning feature (Peterson StroboSoft 2.0) makes Tap Tuning a much more precise activity! To the doubters, I hope you all get stuck playing Rogue Dreadnoughts!
perhaps all the doubters will struggle with the fact that every string has its own tone and if you shorten it or make it thinner it will change pitch and tone. you only have to drop lumber to hear its present tone. A 12 string or mandolin sound different to standard 6 strings because the double the strings. In effect, a well tuned top and back double up frequencies (with their own little differencies) and thus enhance the overall sound. It's like 2 voices (& more). And that's what make a guitar sound great, good, average, dull.
OK it's not scientific it the strict sense, but if he has his methods that produce guitars that sound great and play nice to the customers then everyone's happy.
daveycrockett64 Agreed. Though I would argue that his “methods” have been developed over time using the scientific method. In the strictest sense, he does science every time he tweaks a design based on a hypothesis and tests his results.
When all these things are 100 percent right, the one thing that is most important is the playability of the guitar. If this is bad, the whole guitar is no good.
Martin did NOT develop X-bracing that is a myth. Many German immigrants were using that design in their guitars, that's why Martin never patented the x-brace design.
Hey ILuvAmps, you speak of what you know not. Pay attention. Your tweeter is the area around the sound hole. Your mid-range is the area below the sound hole which is much wider and uninterrupted. Your woofer is the back. Most of these principles were discovered for our modern world by an acoustic engineer at MIT in the 1970s and 1980s. He re-discovered tapping the individual pieces and finger planing them to move the sweet spot to the exact desired center. He came to this by working with violins. Violins use a sound post that goes from the bridge to the sweet spot on the woofer. This gives a small violin a much stronger bass vibration. After rough shaping, the final shape of the woofer is achieved by using the finger plane to move the sweet spot to the ideal placement for the sound post. This is why absolute craftsmen experts could never copy a Stradivarius. The ancient master had known about tapping and about shaping the sweet spot. Merely copying the wood in microscopic detail cannot account for natural differences in each piece of wood. NOW, because of modern acoustic engineering, we know how to make EVERY violin super sweet. When you discount this, you show unfortunate ignorance. That guy ended up creating an assembly line of students. They get unfinished violins cheap from Europe, disassemble them, tap and finger plane each panel to perfection, reassemble, and sell for big bucks. Their violins nearly mimic actual Stradivarius. These principles, adapted to guitar, now produce the sweetest guitars ever. Guitars that feature looong sustain, brite treble, quicker attack, rich bass, and other superior characteristics. You can even choose whether your guitar emphasizes a particular part of the scale by shaping the wood carefully and tapping to check progress as you go and whether it sounds bright or sullen. Choice of harder or softer wood also influences results -- brighter coming from harder wood. Generally, as the video shows above, you work toward the most harmonics possible to get the sweetest sounds from your guitar. This guy uses scientific equipment to perfectly measure the harmonics. He is ahead of the game compared to most. I'm sure his guitars sound very sweet. Many luthiers have caught onto this and now produce better guitars. Many yet remain ignorant. Some worldwide guitar manufacturers now use these principles to produce very sweet guitars at very reasonable prices. Take a look at the GK guitar, named after the Gypsy Kings, designed by a California luthier, manufactured in China and selling in the US for under $700. A home run for regular people who cannot afford a multi-thousand dollar guitar but who now may play a sweet guitar anyway. Next time, confine your comments to something you know about.
***** I recommend reading the following article. It is a scientific analysis on how the thickness and thus the stability of a violin top affects the eigenfrequencies. www.schleske.de/fileadmin/user_upload/doc/CAS_Eigenmodes.pdf The principles can be copied to a guitar top since the method of producing tones are the same. It's the most scientific approach known to me, if you have a paper or any scientific research on how stability of the top does NOT influence the sound of an acoustic instrument, it be happy to read it.
If this was just bullshit, why doesnt they make the top a full inch thick and/or brace it with steel rods to make it really stable? Cause it matters!!!! When you put the different tonal woods together they produce a sound that is "designed" because of the difference in woods, bracing, size and differences in overall design. Besides that the skill of the luthier and the care taken to details, is the biggest "soundmaking" thing. Even things such as type of glue can make a difference.
I almost skipped over this one because of the low video quality, but there is some very useful information in it (essential, really!) to building a guitar and ensuring that it will "sing" as it should. Otherwise, why bother at all, right? Without these fine details, the guitar might turn out to be visually stunning, superficially, but be a useless (and possibly expensive!) piece of junk in reality.
Thanks so much. It's so useful getting to hear this as well as just read about it. And your interviewer asked excellent questions, especially for a layperson. I'm going out this moment to taptune a top.
To all the doubters. The hard way to tap tune a guitar is to try and do it remedially after it is made, shaving the braces inside the guitar to alter the tones. This is a slow process that must be done in many little steps to prevent overdoing it. However, I have witnessed many guitars (and other instruments) going from decent to excellent sounding through this process. The results more than speak for themselves. Nobody is ever disappointed by the results.
Your story is an anecdote, so it is hereby dismissed.
Why would anyone doubt this? Lol. Of course tap tuning is real.
I really liked this video. I am learning Lutherie on my own and haven't seen this demonstrated like this. My question for Mr. Haight would be: Do you ever reject pieces of wood because of unfavorable tones? If not, then how does going through this process help?
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. This is a must see for all serious acuoustic guitar musicians. :)
The question I'd have, is whether or not this is really, literally, a tuning of the wood, as much as it is an observation of the final product?
For example, if a Luther whittles down a top to the desired specification, how much of the process qualifies as sound shaping, versus observing what the final product sounds like?
The builder in the video mentioned a spectrum analyzer. Though I'd question whether this was used to shape the wood, or to visualize an end-result?
I don't know.
I want one, he knows his work well! You mention students, are those students builders or do you just teach them to build their own?
I do want one & headed to the site asap!
I recently read that you have stopped building for a while.Shame really ,i have visited your website and can appreciate the beauty of your work and the extra mile you go for your instruments.
While i suspect that you will return to guitar making i don't suppose that you are taking on apprenticeships...
If that is the case then by chance could you recommend any Luthiers in the Seattle area who might be taking on apprenticeships?
Best regards,
Luther
LutherRayable
Luther the luthier! Certainly has a nice ring to it. How’s it been going?
A Peterson Strobe Tuner, like the old school spinning disc type (Conn or Peterson 400), or a newer Peterson with a Tap Tuning feature (Peterson StroboSoft 2.0) makes Tap Tuning a much more precise activity! To the doubters, I hope you all get stuck playing Rogue Dreadnoughts!
Is there any correlation between wood grade and "good sound"?
perhaps all the doubters will struggle with the fact that every string has its own tone and if you shorten it or make it thinner it will change pitch and tone. you only have to drop lumber to hear its present tone. A 12 string or mandolin sound different to standard 6 strings because the double the strings. In effect, a well tuned top and back double up frequencies (with their own little differencies) and thus enhance the overall sound. It's like 2 voices (& more). And that's what make a guitar sound great, good, average, dull.
I need myself a new acoustical guitar
Ha Ha Ha :)
🤣🤣🤣🤣
acoustical guitar
OK it's not scientific it the strict sense, but if he has his methods that produce guitars that sound great and play nice to the customers then everyone's happy.
daveycrockett64
Agreed. Though I would argue that his “methods” have been developed over time using the scientific method. In the strictest sense, he does science every time he tweaks a design based on a hypothesis and tests his results.
When all these things are 100 percent right, the one thing that is most important is the playability of the guitar.
If this is bad, the whole guitar is no good.
Martin did NOT develop X-bracing that is a myth. Many German immigrants were using that design in their guitars, that's why Martin never patented the x-brace design.
But, he wasn’t done talk’in 🥴🥴🥴 Diane was a bit pushy 🤨. I need more tap tuning 🤓
Hey ILuvAmps, you speak of what you know not. Pay attention. Your tweeter is the area around the sound hole. Your mid-range is the area below the sound hole which is much wider and uninterrupted. Your woofer is the back. Most of these principles were discovered for our modern world by an acoustic engineer at MIT in the 1970s and 1980s. He re-discovered tapping the individual pieces and finger planing them to move the sweet spot to the exact desired center. He came to this by working with violins.
Violins use a sound post that goes from the bridge to the sweet spot on the woofer. This gives a small violin a much stronger bass vibration. After rough shaping, the final shape of the woofer is achieved by using the finger plane to move the sweet spot to the ideal placement for the sound post. This is why absolute craftsmen experts could never copy a Stradivarius. The ancient master had known about tapping and about shaping the sweet spot. Merely copying the wood in microscopic detail cannot account for natural differences in each piece of wood. NOW, because of modern acoustic engineering, we know how to make EVERY violin super sweet. When you discount this, you show unfortunate ignorance.
That guy ended up creating an assembly line of students. They get unfinished violins cheap from Europe, disassemble them, tap and finger plane each panel to perfection, reassemble, and sell for big bucks. Their violins nearly mimic actual Stradivarius.
These principles, adapted to guitar, now produce the sweetest guitars ever. Guitars that feature looong sustain, brite treble, quicker attack, rich bass, and other superior characteristics. You can even choose whether your guitar emphasizes a particular part of the scale by shaping the wood carefully and tapping to check progress as you go and whether it sounds bright or sullen. Choice of harder or softer wood also influences results -- brighter coming from harder wood. Generally, as the video shows above, you work toward the most harmonics possible to get the sweetest sounds from your guitar. This guy uses scientific equipment to perfectly measure the harmonics. He is ahead of the game compared to most. I'm sure his guitars sound very sweet.
Many luthiers have caught onto this and now produce better guitars. Many yet remain ignorant. Some worldwide guitar manufacturers now use these principles to produce very sweet guitars at very reasonable prices. Take a look at the GK guitar, named after the Gypsy Kings, designed by a California luthier, manufactured in China and selling in the US for under $700. A home run for regular people who cannot afford a multi-thousand dollar guitar but who now may play a sweet guitar anyway.
Next time, confine your comments to something you know about.
***** I recommend reading the following article. It is a scientific analysis on how the thickness and thus the stability of a violin top affects the eigenfrequencies.
www.schleske.de/fileadmin/user_upload/doc/CAS_Eigenmodes.pdf
The principles can be copied to a guitar top since the method of producing tones are the same.
It's the most scientific approach known to me, if you have a paper or any scientific research on how stability of the top does NOT influence the sound of an acoustic instrument, it be happy to read it.
If this was just bullshit, why doesnt they make the top a full inch thick and/or brace it with steel rods to make it really stable?
Cause it matters!!!!
When you put the different tonal woods together they produce a sound that is "designed" because of the difference in woods, bracing, size and differences in overall design.
Besides that the skill of the luthier and the care taken to details, is the biggest "soundmaking" thing.
Even things such as type of glue can make a difference.
Yes! Every minute detail matters in the overall result. :)
Bu
I almost skipped over this one because of the low video quality, but there is some very useful information in it (essential, really!) to building a guitar and ensuring that it will "sing" as it should. Otherwise, why bother at all, right? Without these fine details, the guitar might turn out to be visually stunning, superficially, but be a useless (and possibly expensive!) piece of junk in reality.
So the sound is solely created by the top itself and not by the strings at any point... As these Luthiers pretend... 🤣🤣🤣
Can't prove it one way or the other. But what's useless for one is vital for another. If you don't care how a guitar sounds, it's useless to you.
This is nothing but marketing.
Mr haight, you lie.