Another wonderfully detailed account in your fascinating series, thank you. I believe Admiral Sir David Beatty, regretably holds the record of losing the most British sailors lives under his command of any Admiral in British history. RIP all those brave souls.
Using Battlecruisers as Battleships resulted in them being exposed to fire that they had not been designed to face. Battlecruisers were designed to chase down cruisers and other smaller fast combat ships and when used correctly as they had been used at the Falklands they were very effective. Another misuse happened in WWII when the Hood was sent out against the Bismarck and destroyed.
We now know that the three battle cruisers lost that day was not due to any design weakness of the ships themselves, but to the Royal Navy's obsession with rapid fire which not only reduced gunnery accuracy, but led to the improper handling of munitions. Anti-flash doors were left open with propellent bags piled up along unprotected corridors allowed any fire resulting from hits by enemy gunfire to set off a chain of explosions that caused the magazines to detonate. Over 1,200 officers and ratings killed in a matter of seconds. RIP to all who perished aboard HMS Queen Mary.
One of the best youtubes I've seen, informative, interesting, clearly and coherently presented, and with excellent illustrations. Your pronunciation of Ajax would have got you funny looks from anyone at the time, but this is a trifling issue in such a fine piece.
from Fraser, husband of Leslie My paternal grandfather served on the battleship Dreadnought, and during his training before his posting to the ship, was friends with a fellow Ulsterman who was posted to the Queen Mary. My grandfather was lucky as Dreadnought took no part in the battle.
Surprisingly by the time of Jutland the Dreadnought was already considered second class Battleship due to the fast paced development of capital ships. Hence she was kept out of the battle she had been build.
Gunnery officer who survived gave a account after, forward section, disappeared, mid section disappeared, quick secession, leaving aft section still afloat, screws still turning, that's how 20 blokes were able to escape,stern was found upside down oddly away from main body, because experts say it drifted away for a time, then rolled over and sank.
It's staggering to me to think that only two shells wreaked total destruction on such an impressive looking warship, but I guess that was the flaw in the battle cruiser design concept, where big guns were teamed with relatively light armour to produce ships that could hand out significant damage but not take much of it themselves.
Queen Mary should have had sufficient armour to deal with the German Shellfire. The only battlecruisers which were definitely under-armoured were the earlier Invincible and Indefatigable classes. The most likely cause of Queen Mary's loss, and the near loss of Tiger, is a combination of shell/ charge handling procedures, the degradation of the Cordite charges, faulty British AP shells and insufficient crew experience. The most significant of these is the charges degrading. They left a combustible dust which, if left uncleaned, would easily ignite. It was thought by many that it was safe/ inert due to misunderstandings and exaggerations made from the lab. An Officer on Tiger realised this and got it cleaned, but not all ships were so lucky. Britain wasn't alone in making errors with the propellant charges, but really suffered at Jutland because of it. The Cordite was proven safe in a lab, but was not tested in an enclosed environment such as a ship. It was also not appreciated how it'd degrade over time and coat the ship in dust. Naval staff were informed it was much safer compared to previous black powder charges, which left a much more obvious coating of combustible dust. The charge handling safety procedures were cut to improve rate of fire. Whilst not necessarily the direct cause of the ships loss, it was a major factor in it. The Green Boy AP shells the British used were known to be faulty and acted more like HE shells, not penetrating through the armour belts as intended. This meant the German ships were able to absorb much more punishment than British ships. Due to manpower shortages in the war, Queen Mary in particular had a relatively new crew, largely from reservists which would have played somewhat of a factor. You can also take into account the failures and incompetence of Admiral Beatty and Flag Officer Seymour. Both the charge and shell issues were known about before the war and there were people who wanted those issues resolved. Unfortunately due to politics and bureaucracy, these were not addressed in time, nor were these issues widely known throughout the navy. Ultimately Queen Mary is relatively similarly armoured to the Kongōs and they didn't explode under American superheavy 16" shells, so why should the British. Essentially, there were a lot of factors in the sinking of the ships, which aren't all fully understood even today. Hood would be modified to carry substantially more armour after Jutland and would carry equivalent armour protection to the Queen Elizabeths, showing that you no longer needed to give up armour for speed. Hoods loss is something I won't get into now, but it was not due to a lack of armour either.
@@Joshua-fi4ji Since Japan's navy was modelled after Britains, I'd assume that they copied their charge and ammunition handling procedures...which most likely led to the explosion of the Kawachi.
My grandfather was a cpo on the NMS QM ( not this one, but its successor) a radiologist ( x-ray operator) befor ww2 It was in the Mediterranean squadron at the time
Thanks very much. I did spend quite some time on the pronunciation of Ajax and it depends on what source you refer to as to how it's pronounced. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
@@TheNorthernHistorian in the film about the battle of the river plate, the cruiser involved is pronounced aJacks. Football is a world of its own. Glasgow Celtic is pronounced with a soft c. It isn't right!
@@andrewclayton4181 In Greek, which is where the word comes from, its I-Yaks... I know there are variations in its use, but if in doubt, use the original language...
in the English language you have a pronounced vowel shift not existing in Greek, thus if Ajax is spoken in English, the original Greek spelling of the name always gets butchered. I therefore doubt that using Greek pronunciation should be appropriate for this ship. Just speak the name any way you feel like and it will end up close enough to the original English pronunciation.
Thanks I do not known that HMS Queen Mary was the last battlecruiser built for the Royal Navy. HMS Queen Mary is my favorit battlecruiser and my second favorit battlecruiser is SMS Derfflinger. But did really happend to Queen Mary?
I've never seen any detailed hull plans (although I have searched and searched). I would imagine just as the hull tapers into the bow so as to get a clean launch.
HMS Tiger was launched before WW1 but wasn't commissioned into service until October of 1914 when the war was already underway. HMS Queen Mary was commissioned in 1913.
At about 8:15 .... SMS Roon is not pronounced like you said it...the long single "o" as in "Brot" (Bread) or "oo" "Boot" and "Roon" is pronounced like in "Beau" if that helps. SMS "Seydlitz": the "ey" is pronounced like "eye". I'm happy to help with any German pronunciation. I'm fluent.
Hood fallowed typical escaltion just like the earlier battlecruisers. For a new battlecruiser to be as heavily armed and armored than a few year old battleship was a norm. Only reason people see Hood as a fast battleship is the cancelation of G3 and N3 and the long treaty mandated holiday period. This makes people compare Hood to Queen elizabeth etc. instead of looking at the context it was built in.
Nice video :D , slight point, at 3.20 you say ten thousand three hundert ninety kilometers :D I would guess you mean ten point three hundred ninety kilometers. (10390km vs 10,390km)
In the UK the comma (,) is used to seperate thousands: 5,610nm = five thousand, six hundred and ten nautical miles and 10,390km = ten thousand, three hundred and ninety kilometres. Ten point three nine zero would be written 10.390. In other countries (particularly Europe) the comma is treated as a decimal point - crazy, I know ;-)
I actually spent ages trying to find the 'correct' pronunciation, watching a number of videos from all kinds of sources and it really is 50-50. After watching the video on TH-cam by Drachinefel where he also mentioned the dilemma, I went for his pronunciation. I suppose it's a case of tom'ah'to or tom'ay'to. Plus, it sounds like the dutch football team :-)
@@TheNorthernHistorian - The name is that of the ancient Greek hero, Ajax, and the Greeks used the hard J it would seem and not the Y pronunciation of many Europeans today.
Queen Mary was a Royal navy ship, the others were merchant marine. It was the Tiger that was the last British battlecruiser to complete before world war one,although only just.Tiger was also the last 13.5 inch gun British capitol ship to be built for the Royal navy and the last coal fired capitol ship to complete for the Royal Navy.Good vid though.
Hi David, thanks for the comment. HMS Tiger was still under construction when WW1 started and wasn't commissioned into service until 3rd October 1914. She was an impressive ship though and may feature in a future video. Cheers.
@@TheNorthernHistorian Ok, I'll give you that Tiger didn't complete until October 1914, (just shows we can all make errors,lol!). I enjoyed the video and appreciate the time and effort you and others, ie; Drac, put into them to entertain us. The real fun comes in debating the subject in the comments section afterwards. I don't comment to criticise, I look forward to your next offering.
@@hazchemel I looked it up - the original two Ajaxes were from Greek mythology, and were originally "Aias". In English it would be "Ajax" (A-Jacks) though. Makes we wonder, though - in German "Jutland" is "Yoot-land", and it's interesting that pretty much all English commentators (Drach on down) still pronounce it "Jut-land", while everyone takes great care to pronounce "Junkers", "Heinkel" and "Messerschmitt" in the German way... 😁
@@iskandartaib yes indeed. commonplace in English that multiple threads proceed together. The original continues, the same word from a different language, e.g French, continues, .... lol.... which is why there is a gigantic vocabulary about 500,000 words and growing, huge choice. Where are you from? Australia here.
I'm a simple Texan man. I see a video about the Royal Navy, and I expect an Irish accent. I come from those parts, way long time ago, prior to the 1640s.
Renown was saved by the British Navy _eventually_ learning not to mix battlecruisers with big gun ships. It had exchanged fire with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau during the invasion of Norway campaign.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Yes indeed. Until they ran off ‘cos of orders not to engage RN big ships. Daft, as they could have mashed up poor old Renown as they had range and speed and there was two of them. The RN had a tradition of “Engage the Enemy More Closely” and the Kriegsmarine had a tradition of “Er…… No!” (Thankfully!:)
Beatty unlike Jelicoe was a boaster with questionable ethics (eyeing any pretty woman regardless her status) and an arrogant believer that nothing could touch the RN he paid it in Jutlant which left him a bitter feeling expressed later in Scapa Flow during HSF internment in a matter contrary to the naval code and the long tradition of the RN but satsfying his cyclothymia and his petty ego
Thank you. My great-uncle Midshipman Philip Reginald Malet de Carteret, lost aged 18. RIP all those men.
Another wonderfully detailed account in your fascinating series, thank you. I believe Admiral Sir David Beatty, regretably holds the record of losing the most British sailors lives under his command of any Admiral in British history. RIP all those brave souls.
Many thanks!
Yes, Beatty certainly was not what you would term a "team player".
Using Battlecruisers as Battleships resulted in them being exposed to fire that they had not been designed to face. Battlecruisers were designed to chase down cruisers and other smaller fast combat ships and when used correctly as they had been used at the Falklands they were very effective. Another misuse happened in WWII when the Hood was sent out against the Bismarck and destroyed.
My great grandfather William Graham was a stoker on the Queen Mary, went down with her.
You may Always Remember him with Love and Pride for his Gallant and Noble Service .
@@jnstonbely5215 one of many great heroes, God rest there soles,🙏🇬🇧.
@@busterboy7505
R.I.P. ✝️
My Great uncle, Herbert Hillerby was also a stoker on the Queen Mary and went down with the ship.
We now know that the three battle cruisers lost that day was not due to any design weakness of the ships themselves, but to the Royal Navy's obsession with rapid fire which not only reduced gunnery accuracy, but led to the improper handling of munitions. Anti-flash doors were left open with propellent bags piled up along unprotected corridors allowed any fire resulting from hits by enemy gunfire to set off a chain of explosions that caused the magazines to detonate. Over 1,200 officers and ratings killed in a matter of seconds. RIP to all who perished aboard HMS Queen Mary.
A really well researched and presented piece. Keep going, you're appreciated.
Much appreciated!
One of the best youtubes I've seen, informative, interesting, clearly and coherently presented, and with excellent illustrations. Your pronunciation of Ajax would have got you funny looks from anyone at the time, but this is a trifling issue in such a fine piece.
Thank you very much, greatly appreciated.
It's always been A-jax in English, Eye-ax is the name of a Dutch football club, not a Royal Navy ship.
My grandfather Karl Rassler fought in the battle of Jutland (Skagerrakschlacht) aboard the SMS Helgoland.
Great content as usual. Appreciate all your hard work putting this material together. Thank you and look forward to the next one 👍
Thanks very much!
Another great and little known historical episode. I am so glad I found your channel!
Glad you enjoy it!
My great uncle Blackburn was a stocker on this ship.
Great channel . Great narrator and narration . The Brits' are naturals when it comes to producing doco's .
Great Documentary ! You have a great ability to simply point out the facts and present them perfectly- thank you for your time and effort
Thanks very much for such a kind comment.
great episode, thanks so much:)
Glad you enjoyed it!
from Fraser, husband of Leslie
My paternal grandfather served on the battleship Dreadnought, and during his training before his posting to the ship, was friends with a fellow Ulsterman who was posted to the Queen Mary. My grandfather was lucky as Dreadnought took no part in the battle.
Surprisingly by the time of Jutland the Dreadnought was already considered second class Battleship due to the fast paced development of capital ships. Hence she was kept out of the battle she had been build.
Thanks for uploading this. Good, clear information.
Always great videos and commentary - thank you
Thank you.
Very interesting indeed. The presentation and narration is excellent.
An impressive production. Naval history very well told.
Thank you very much.
A splendid video! I did appreciate your detailed maps. Hope you can complete the video on HMS Tiger.
Thanks very much. I do have HMS Tiger on my list of potential future videos. You aren't the first person to suggest her.
Gunnery officer who survived gave a account after, forward section, disappeared, mid section disappeared, quick secession, leaving aft section still afloat, screws still turning, that's how 20 blokes were able to escape,stern was found upside down oddly away from main body, because experts say it drifted away for a time, then rolled over and sank.
great video . Thank you very much
You are welcome!
Excellent Videos.
Glad you like them!
Thanks for your history. Maybe I'll find a model of this ship I can build in memoriam. DH
You are doing a great work strongly working on improvement of history of people .Well done 👍👍👍👍
Thanks a lot
Welcome
Thank you. My great uncle Francis Joseph Lamont was an 18 year old Able Seaman on HMS Queen Mary when she was lost at Jutland. GBNF.
It's staggering to me to think that only two shells wreaked total destruction on such an impressive looking warship, but I guess that was the flaw in the battle cruiser design concept, where big guns were teamed with relatively light armour to produce ships that could hand out significant damage but not take much of it themselves.
Queen Mary should have had sufficient armour to deal with the German Shellfire. The only battlecruisers which were definitely under-armoured were the earlier Invincible and Indefatigable classes.
The most likely cause of Queen Mary's loss, and the near loss of Tiger, is a combination of shell/ charge handling procedures, the degradation of the Cordite charges, faulty British AP shells and insufficient crew experience.
The most significant of these is the charges degrading. They left a combustible dust which, if left uncleaned, would easily ignite. It was thought by many that it was safe/ inert due to misunderstandings and exaggerations made from the lab. An Officer on Tiger realised this and got it cleaned, but not all ships were so lucky. Britain wasn't alone in making errors with the propellant charges, but really suffered at Jutland because of it.
The Cordite was proven safe in a lab, but was not tested in an enclosed environment such as a ship. It was also not appreciated how it'd degrade over time and coat the ship in dust. Naval staff were informed it was much safer compared to previous black powder charges, which left a much more obvious coating of combustible dust.
The charge handling safety procedures were cut to improve rate of fire. Whilst not necessarily the direct cause of the ships loss, it was a major factor in it.
The Green Boy AP shells the British used were known to be faulty and acted more like HE shells, not penetrating through the armour belts as intended. This meant the German ships were able to absorb much more punishment than British ships.
Due to manpower shortages in the war, Queen Mary in particular had a relatively new crew, largely from reservists which would have played somewhat of a factor.
You can also take into account the failures and incompetence of Admiral Beatty and Flag Officer Seymour.
Both the charge and shell issues were known about before the war and there were people who wanted those issues resolved. Unfortunately due to politics and bureaucracy, these were not addressed in time, nor were these issues widely known throughout the navy.
Ultimately Queen Mary is relatively similarly armoured to the Kongōs and they didn't explode under American superheavy 16" shells, so why should the British.
Essentially, there were a lot of factors in the sinking of the ships, which aren't all fully understood even today.
Hood would be modified to carry substantially more armour after Jutland and would carry equivalent armour protection to the Queen Elizabeths, showing that you no longer needed to give up armour for speed. Hoods loss is something I won't get into now, but it was not due to a lack of armour either.
No design flaw ,Blasphemic! It only explodet once regardless how often those unfair germans shot at it!!
@@Joshua-fi4ji Since Japan's navy was modelled after Britains, I'd assume that they copied their charge and ammunition handling procedures...which most likely led to the explosion of the Kawachi.
Excellent.
Many thanks!
Awesome video, perhaps you can do one on the “refit” twins HMS Renown and Repulse
Have a look at Beaty's sleeves, he was a Vice Admiral when he commanded the battle cruiser squadron.
Great Brief, BRAVO ZULU 💯👍
Excellent and very interesting documentary! From what I've read both Seylitz and Derfflinger were firing on her, but that may not be true, of course.
My grandfather was a cpo on the NMS QM ( not this one, but its successor) a radiologist ( x-ray operator) befor ww2
It was in the Mediterranean squadron at the time
Thank you rely enjoyed that.
Glad you enjoyed it
Something wrong with our ships today, famous words from Beatty. Meanwhile Queen Mary takes 1200 to the bottom.
Ajax is pronounced in this case as it's spelt and not the way the Dutch Football Club is pronounced. Bloody great video, really enjoyed it.
Thanks very much. I did spend quite some time on the pronunciation of Ajax and it depends on what source you refer to as to how it's pronounced. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
@@TheNorthernHistorian in the film about the battle of the river plate, the cruiser involved is pronounced aJacks. Football is a world of its own. Glasgow Celtic is pronounced with a soft c. It isn't right!
@@andrewclayton4181 In Greek, which is where the word comes from, its I-Yaks... I know there are variations in its use, but if in doubt, use the original language...
@@K1W1fly in Greek it's pronounced Aias or in Greek Αϊάς
in the English language you have a pronounced vowel shift not existing in Greek, thus if Ajax is spoken in English, the original Greek spelling of the name always gets butchered. I therefore doubt that using Greek pronunciation should be appropriate for this ship. Just speak the name any way you feel like and it will end up close enough to the original English pronunciation.
Thanks I do not known that HMS Queen Mary was the last battlecruiser built for the Royal Navy. HMS Queen Mary is my favorit battlecruiser and my second favorit battlecruiser is SMS Derfflinger. But did really happend to Queen Mary?
Do you know were the below water torpedo tubes are located? Great video! thanks!
I've never seen any detailed hull plans (although I have searched and searched). I would imagine just as the hull tapers into the bow so as to get a clean launch.
Fairly sure that HMS Tiger was the last battle cruiser built for Royal Navy before the war.
HMS Tiger was launched before WW1 but wasn't commissioned into service until October of 1914 when the war was already underway. HMS Queen Mary was commissioned in 1913.
At about 8:15 .... SMS Roon is not pronounced like you said it...the long single "o" as in "Brot" (Bread) or "oo" "Boot" and "Roon" is pronounced like in "Beau" if that helps.
SMS "Seydlitz": the "ey" is pronounced like "eye". I'm happy to help with any German pronunciation. I'm fluent.
Great videos But Tiger, Renown and Repulse were built after her (Hood was classed as a Battle Cruiser but was arguably more a fast battleship).
Thanks for the comment but I'm confused. I don't mention Tiger, Renown, Repulse or Hood in the video.
@@TheNorthernHistorian I don't think he realised you said "before world war one"
Hood fallowed typical escaltion just like the earlier battlecruisers. For a new battlecruiser to be as heavily armed and armored than a few year old battleship was a norm. Only reason people see Hood as a fast battleship is the cancelation of G3 and N3 and the long treaty mandated holiday period. This makes people compare Hood to Queen elizabeth etc. instead of looking at the context it was built in.
@@TheNorthernHistorian You are not the only one confused. Me, too. I didn't hear any word of the latter three ships either.
Courageous, Glorious and Furious came later also. It doesn’t matter that they were ridiculously labelled as 15 and 18 inch gun armed _light cruisers._
I understand being pedantic. But DerFFlinger not DeRRflinger. Anyway great informative video, keep doing this kind of fine work.
Have you considered doing a document here on Jutland.
That thought has crossed my mind. I may consider that for the future.
If only the m.o.d. was so well coordinated.
Nice video :D , slight point, at 3.20 you say ten thousand three hundert ninety kilometers :D I would guess you mean ten point three hundred ninety kilometers. (10390km vs 10,390km)
In the UK the comma (,) is used to seperate thousands: 5,610nm = five thousand, six hundred and ten nautical miles and 10,390km = ten thousand, three hundred and ninety kilometres. Ten point three nine zero would be written 10.390. In other countries (particularly Europe) the comma is treated as a decimal point - crazy, I know ;-)
Cheers Don, I was just about to explain that but you explained it spot on :-)
@@TheNorthernHistorian oohh damn i was totaly of in my mind. Sorry absolutly my mistake.
Beatty has so much to answer for .
HMS I-ax?
pretty sure it was A-JAX not a-yaxs lol
I actually spent ages trying to find the 'correct' pronunciation, watching a number of videos from all kinds of sources and it really is 50-50. After watching the video on TH-cam by Drachinefel where he also mentioned the dilemma, I went for his pronunciation. I suppose it's a case of tom'ah'to or tom'ay'to. Plus, it sounds like the dutch football team :-)
@@TheNorthernHistorian - The name is that of the ancient Greek hero, Ajax, and the Greeks used the hard J it would seem and not the Y pronunciation of many Europeans today.
No no no, it is clearly A-Jax not A-yax as is the Dutch football club
Queen Mary was a Royal navy ship, the others were merchant marine. It was the Tiger that was the last British battlecruiser to complete before world war one,although only just.Tiger was also the last 13.5 inch gun British capitol ship to be built for the Royal navy and the last coal fired capitol ship to complete for the Royal Navy.Good vid though.
Hi David, thanks for the comment. HMS Tiger was still under construction when WW1 started and wasn't commissioned into service until 3rd October 1914. She was an impressive ship though and may feature in a future video. Cheers.
@@TheNorthernHistorian Ok, I'll give you that Tiger didn't complete until October 1914, (just shows we can all make errors,lol!). I enjoyed the video and appreciate the time and effort you and others, ie; Drac, put into them to entertain us. The real fun comes in debating the subject in the comments section afterwards. I don't comment to criticise, I look forward to your next offering.
Huh. Why is "Ajax" pronounced "Ayaks"? Because the Dutch football team is pronounced that way? 😁
Well, if it was Latin 'Ayax' would be correct. But it's Greek so, I guess its the same.
Also Italian team pronounced "Yuventes"
@@hazchemel I looked it up - the original two Ajaxes were from Greek mythology, and were originally "Aias". In English it would be "Ajax" (A-Jacks) though. Makes we wonder, though - in German "Jutland" is "Yoot-land", and it's interesting that pretty much all English commentators (Drach on down) still pronounce it "Jut-land", while everyone takes great care to pronounce "Junkers", "Heinkel" and "Messerschmitt" in the German way... 😁
@@iskandartaib yes indeed. commonplace in English that multiple threads proceed together. The original continues, the same word from a different language, e.g French, continues, .... lol.... which is why there is a gigantic vocabulary about 500,000 words and growing, huge choice.
Where are you from?
Australia here.
Malaysia here.
So what you're saying is that billionaires vould be building battlecruisers as personal yachts
I'm a simple Texan man. I see a video about the Royal Navy, and I expect an Irish accent.
I come from those parts, way long time ago, prior to the 1640s.
hms queen mary vs rms queen mary
Sure it's not billions today?
Using a CPI Inflation calculator, $1 in 1913 is worth £118 today. So £2M in 1913 is worth £245M today.
Its 1936 not 1896
Music is off putting. Good otherwise.
Vice admiral Beatty
Same thing that destroyed Hood only not as completely flukey.
Renown was saved by the British Navy _eventually_ learning not to mix battlecruisers with big gun ships. It had exchanged fire with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau during the invasion of Norway campaign.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Yes indeed. Until they ran off ‘cos of orders not to engage RN big ships. Daft, as they could have mashed up poor old Renown as they had range and speed and there was two of them. The RN had a tradition of “Engage the Enemy More Closely” and the Kriegsmarine had a tradition of “Er…… No!” (Thankfully!:)
A waste of a lot of good people on both sides, relatives of mine served in the imperial high seas fleet.
British way of constructing a battleship: Crash! Boom! Bang!
Beatty unlike Jelicoe was a boaster with questionable ethics (eyeing any pretty woman regardless her status) and an arrogant believer that nothing could touch the RN he paid it in Jutlant which left him a bitter feeling expressed later in Scapa Flow during HSF internment in a matter contrary to the naval code and the long tradition of the RN but satsfying his cyclothymia and his petty ego