Ranking every Electric Multiple Unit in Britain (Part 2): The Underwhelming Middle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2022
- In the second instalment of EMU ranking, we look at positions 26 to 11, minus one as a result of an embarrassing mishap.
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Photography:
TheFrog001, Plutowiki and Alex Noble, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Sunil060902, Superalbs, Keuneke, Class466cuxton, Halish Railways, Peter Skuce, srfurley and SavageKieran, CC BY-SA 4.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
train_photos, Hugh Llewelyn, Matt Buck, The Basingstoker, Peter Broster, Train Photos and Stephen Craven, CC BY-SA 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Calvinps, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Arbiter50
Adam Richman
Music:
The Monuments and Tunnels of Goa and Hampi - Bail Bonds
His voice is so ASMR. The level boarding the 745 is amazing.
I know right!!
He's so posh like I didn't expect his voice to sound like that
I came here for the rundown and the excellent voiceover. Only to be blown away by the hyper-realistic graphics provided in the explanation of the 745! This level of professionalism is mind boggling and I can only guess Mr GWV is a talented artist or graphic designer in real life. Another level 👍👍👍
I'm still disappointed the 334 was so low , a true crime.
Honestly ur so right about people loving the 323s. If got a full interior refresh (bring it up to the standards of new trains), they’d be absolutely brilliant and the 730s could be sent somewhere else
Got to say I'm an absolute fan of the 745 FLIRTs on the Great Eastern lines.
Those things have some serious get-up-and-go even when fully loaded.
I actually like the low seating position as it's really comfortable, gives a huge window view and just enhances the interior ambiance. PID screens are amazing too.
One day I hope to try the Staedtler trains in Switzerland where they use the light weight of those models to climb steep grades. The interiors are full of glass and stainless steel swiss elegance!
Ya know I just think the could have just electrified the 185 because they are the best dmu's and trains I have been on
First Class is now entirely a non entity on Southeastern, but would've been wasted on 395s - Southeastern's biggest market has always been commuters and both the HS and Mainline services operate as fully loaded 12 cars in the peaks - would you want to take away some of that capacity for such a minority of travellers? Especially as 6 cars regularly leave St Pancras full and standing. They're only really nicknamed Javelins because they operated the 'Olympic Javelin' service in 2012 and the name stuck.
The capacity issues could easily solved by extending the trains: 6 cars always felt a little small. Would this still be possible or do the 395s no longer hold up to crashworthiness standards?
I really hope the class 599 hasn’t been forgotten in this, you included the Sheffield super tram so I’m really hoping you’ve remembered the Tyne and Wear metro
Same here as the 599 was quite innovational for its time
They won't be in the list proper, but they will be in an honourable mention in the next video.
And I forgot… please accept my apologies, I’ll try and work them in to a future video as I would like to comment on them.
@@GWVillager No worries there is always another time to include them in a future video
331's are absolutely F***ing vile things, especially so with those ironing board seats.
We have the Diesel variant (Class 195) on the Leeds > Nottingham service, which are actually worse, especially when you are sat above the gearbox area with the whining from it, plus very jerky ride when it switches between gears.... I often hope for a 158 (Though I don't enjoy the smell from the toilets!) at Nottingham, or just stick to EMR's Liverpool service to Sheffield.
If I had a choice between these CAF's and a Pacer..... bring on the Leyland!
323's (Birmingham area), now I love these, especially with the noises it makes during acceleration and breaking.
The class 357 is the definition of the middle child
The class 357 is the class 170 for prius-loving environmentalists
Nice ranking
I think FLIRTs would be brilliant on Chiltern services, and everywhere else.
There should be more widespread use of them on regional services yeah, I think they would have been a much better choice than the 195s or 196s, say.
The FLIRTs are what Northern, West Midlands and TfW _should_ have got instead of Civitys, especially given the potential for benefiting from bi-mode operations on those networks.
@@stevieinselby TfW is getting a boatload of FLIRTs
@@Danse_Macabre_125 They are getting more than twice as many Civity units as Flirt units.
Love the vid. One think i will point out is that if the 745s follow other European FLIRTS they should be capable of being upgraded for 125mph operations.
It's possible, though I can't imagine many route/situations where this would happen.
I remember reading that all domestic trains on HS1 are limited to 140mph no matter what, hence why the 395s cannot go much faster than that
Why would that be if Eurostars can exceed it?
@@GWVillager Eurostars are design for 186 mph. They have the equipment for it unlike class 395 which they didn't equip with. That and the government specific that requirement. Hitachi could easily design a train for 186 mph or more they also design and make Shinkasens which easy can above that speed. With the Class 395 it's due to fully on government specifics for the design and not Hitachi themselves they not at fault as they did the work what the government wants.
@@gerogyzurkov2259 Well yes exactly. But that means that in theory domestic services could exceed 140mph.
@@GWVillager Cause the government didn't do the upgrades for it. HS2 might change that since 225mph is the rated max speed for those lines by the time though a new train will come into service
I mean the APT proved it already since the British Train speed record is 160+ mph back in the 1970s/1980s. It proves the trains can run faster on our mainline railways, but it needs additional equipment to help for regular service. I understand what you say but as I said already we need government to spend to on the safety and signal equipment to do that which historically they did try to plan and crunch the numbers. Problem is all that is history.
You forgot to mention the fantastic sound of the motors on class 321s
I LOVE the class 380. Comfortable seats, nice subdued lighting, big windows, and they were so much quieter and faster accelerating than the trains they replaced.
Glad you're happy with the 323's in 15th. Although the Northern ones are used on Stoke On Trent Line I believe they will outperform the 319's as they accelerate more. Although they're not as fast as the 319's they're still pretty decent. Many people will love them for their sounds as I love them so much and prefer the sounds to the 465's/466's. The 323's on WMR will be missed massively.
Can you do a ranking video of all the loco hauled trains in the country including sleeper services, 125s and 225s?
Maybe, but there aren’t that many.
i have to say i don’t mind the longitudinal seating on the overground sets. they’re really meant to be used like tube trains for the most part, especially on the NLL and ELL so that style of seating works. also, londoners are thoroughly used to longitudinal seating. i do agree the the 378s aren’t anything that special, but the 710s have a nice fresh interior and nice amenities. in the last video you mentioned just extending the trains and retaining 2+2 seating and i disagree. that would just increase dwell times and require expensive platform extensions at most stations, including a lot of really quite new ones.
The 333 is a god level train to me
I do think that Northern should have the remaining Class 323s from West Midlands Railway including using them on Manchester Piccadilly-Stalybridge once electrification is completed.
That's what they're getting, though there are a few that won't transfer.
Love the Stadler Greater Anglia units.
Man, the 380s and 385s look goofy as hell. Good one.
Yep, being able to just roll on (just as everyone else can just step on) is transformative. You essentially have to ask permission to board otherwise.
One thing about the 345's I don't like is that you sometimes get a unit with really squeaky interconnecting bits meaning that every little bump and turn it squeaks which gets annoying after some time also i dont like the beep when the train doors are released it is really painfully loud :(
Good point about class 395. No 1st class makes it headshaking. If u want to complain about the speed blame the government for not investing in the infrastructure and they where the ones who put what design requirements for the class 395. Also may I ask why is it rated so low 6 on exterior looks ? Thought it would 8 or even 9.
I am blaming the government for the speed! As for the the looks, I'm just not a fan, they look like worse 80Xs if you ask me, and I don't like the doors. Entirely subjective though.
@@GWVillagerThe 395 were before the 800s. Also if u saying u don't like the looks u might not like the shinkansen which Hitachi also makes. Those trains looks are similar to those trains.
It would be helpful to know the routes on which the trains are operating
That’s a good idea, I’ll put that in if I ever make another one of these.
I think the class 701 would fit into this part, Its looks are great, but as their seating goes It's ironing boards again which are disappointing, their sounds are great too
For me, ill personally rank the 323 a bit lower since northern use them on the stoke on trent line which have a mps of 125. which the 323 are not capable of doing (the 319 are not much better). But if we are only taking about the WMR ones. Then yes it deserves the spot.
I've never been to keen on the Northern 323s, but they weren't really designed for those routes, which is my justification for keeping them high, as you say they suit the Cross City Line immaculately.
You know a train is shit when it's forgotten in the ranking...
Can't blame you tbh, I hate them
Wat did he ignore?
@@georgedowns4034 he said he forgot about the 320/321, I didn't word my comment that well
@@Danse_Macabre_125 wat wrong with 321?
As someone who used to use the 507/508 I agree that it’s in the bottom 15
Other than nostalgia for me
Strongly disagree on the ride quality of the 387 being an 8, they are at best a 4, but I'd honestly rank them a 2. Then again I don't think there is a single train in the UK I'd rank a 8 or higher... I find it amazing the electrostars were ever certified to 110mi/h because they suffer from really awful hunting oscillations above even 95 or so...
Same ride quality thing goes for the 745s, FLIRTs (aside from the ones running in Norway) do not have good ride quality, this is basically a hard set rule, they are acceptable for regional services but for an intercity train they are bad. 4/10
I would personally rank the 387 lower than the 700 and 717. I think the 387s feel very cramped and i think the 700 and 717 seats are far more comfortable, and the 700 and 717s feel far more spacious and let more natural light in. I always get disappointed whenever I see a 387 pull up to the platform instead of a 700, because I know I probably won't even get a seat and I will be shoulder to shoulder with other passengers. And for some reason GTR have been using Great Western, c2c, and Gatwick Express on the Great Northern routes, which i can imagine would be confusing for someone who doesnt really know anything about trains?
How dare you put the class 395 only 17th I think they could go 150 mph they are comfy I have only ever had 1 problem considering I have done probably 100 journeys from Kent to London and the problem was a trespassing issue
calm down thats his opinion
Video to dustbin for forgetting the dustbins!
How dose 385s have good seats there iron boards
Dunno if this has been corrected, but 380s do have tables :)
Noooooo... big up the fishbowls!
I live near Lichfield Trent Valley (the terminus of the Cross city line) and I love to listen to the 323s. I'm not great on Trains with all the class numbers (I'm better with names so I call the 323s the Hyper Networkers) but I will miss them so much as the trains that are replacing them seem really cheap and flimsy
The 730s aren’t that cheap- I’ve seen a few in person and they look stunning, especially with the 2+2 seating and tables. That said I will certainly miss the 323s too.
@@GWVillager how come there isn't much happening under the cars? It looks like nothing is there and all the traction components look so small! I want some big beefy inverters and motors!!!
@@jakewynn It is a little annoying, but I think they will be a step up for the passenger.
The 395s don't have first class, as High Speed itself is considered as the first class upgrade
Indeed, but given the less than luxurious interiors, I think Southeastern is missing out on a bit of revenue by not providing something a little more opulent.
@@GWVillager That makes sense, they also got rid of first class from all of their other lines as well as nobody was using it. Also it seems TOC are all slowly getting rid of first class on commuter services
@@GWVillager Those 395s are being refurbished from March so I'm interested to see what difference that makes. Also, the 360s seat layout is like that because EMR can't be bothered to refurbish the units which they desperately need. What's stopping them? Get on with it guys!!
I hope there is a very special place in hell for whomever thought 3x2 seating wasn't a terrible idea or signed it off.
My thoughts and ratings
Class 710 - I would rank them 25th
Class 387 - Probably the worst out of all of the Electrostar Family to me so I would rank that in 26th
Class 333 - Deserves 24th spot but they are better compared to Northern's other types of fleet
Class 360 - I would rank it more lower in 26th Joined with the 387 as they're useless on EMR's Connect routes as the Intercity routes do the job better
Class 707 - Deserves 22nd
Class 385 - Deserves 19th they are better than the IET's because ride quality is super poor and they're nicer to travel on
Class 331 - I would rank them lower because they're just no better compared to older units (but not in seating configuration)
Class 395 - I would rank them higher because they're probably one of the best trains to ride on in my opinion and they're better than IET's obviously
Class 357 - Deserves 16th Spot (As we aren't talking about Roblox SCR obviously lol)
Class 323 - I would rank them higher because I love them so much
If we are talking about Northern's 323's then it deserves that spot despite them being used on the Stoke On Trent Line which doesn't suit the 323's as they only go 90 mph so better trains can do the job better
If we are talking about the WMR 323's then I would rank them higher
Class 380 - Deserves 14th even though they look ugly
Class 345 - Deserves 13th better than the 710's ngl
Class 375 - I would rank them lower if we are talking about the /9 units because seating configuration is poor
If we are talking about the other units then it deserves that spot
Class 377 - Deserves 12th even though I hate the units with ironing boards
Class 745 - Deserves 11th even though they're better than Greater Anglia's other units
How dare you forget about the 320! @Nathan's trains isn't this disgraceful behaviour?
Location: Great Britain.
The class 380’s do have tables
I think I got to disagree with you about the class 360s. I think they look far better than the class 350’s and the gangways. The liveries that they wore look spectacular. They aren’t ugly. 3+2 seating isnt that much of a problem.
The stadler trains on Anglia are the best trains in the country.
387 "Electrostar in its final form " 🤣🤣
I prefer the Individual windows since they resemble the networker windows.
I do think opinions are more resemblance of alot of our experience as kids with these units. But alot of uk trains are alot better looking than trains out of the uk that's for sure.
If every train is too high, why aren't the platforms higher?
That would interfere with clearance, as the platforms would be at risk of clipping the body given the UK loading gauge’s taper at the bottom.
@@GWVillager Oh, ok. I thought the loading gauge was just a rectangle with a curvy top
The better option is to raise platforms to 1.1m becuase the FLIRT's keep on having a lot of issues.
That would be next to impossible on a national level. With the FLIRTs you get it at every station with no modification required, and I’m sure the issues will smooth out.
@@GWVillager FLIRT's would need modifications to fit in the rest of the country since in the West a lot of the platforms are higher than normal. It has been done before with massive rasing of platforms in a country. Also the Stadler FLIRT's could never work high speed trains services on the GWML, ECML, HS1 & HS2.
@@joshuaritchie3836 Well yes obviously, FLIRTs couldn't run everything. But on the whole I think most areas are better being served by trains with lower ride height.
@@GWVillager It would be far easier to raise the platform's since FLIRT's have a terrible reliability and are often replaced by 720's on some services with GA.
Southeastern high speed has no first class as there are no long service like dover to Victoria. And Southeastern has taken all first class away its now declassified
shame about the 377, I really think we got robbed. Shame Shame Shame.
Aesthetics 8 for 332??
I disagree with your performance evaluation of the 375, they are very sluggish trains although the top speed of 100 mph is good, and the 395's interior is not as boring as you think, I think they are very good for the 1.5 hour max services they operate as the seats are not ironing boards, the 375 has a veriant with 3/2 seating which is extremely uncomfortable
Indeed the 375/9s have poor seating, though I would say that the acceleration isn't too bad compared to other DC EMUs with the same top speed. More extensive use of the 707s and 465 replacements would help negate the need for the 375s to accelerate rapidly anyway.
I happen to think the comfort and performance of the 375s are rly good. Wat u on?
@@GWVillager what was number 21?
@@ashleyjiscool As I mentioned in the mid-video revelation, by joint awarding the 375s and 377s with 12th place that nullified 21st. It was a bit of a mistake on my part, sorry.
The 375s are better as 4 car units. The 8 cars are fastest with the /7s and /8s . The /6s are heavier 6 to ten tons amd are a bit more sluggish .
That being said, the 377s tend to be faster at accelerating but that could be an illusion caused by southeastern always having to journey on really steep inclines. The newest class 377s /6s and /7s are the quickest accelerating by far. Probably due to updated electrical Infrustructure
380 do have tables
I thought the Aventras had not-great reliability? Why a 7?
Yeah it hasn't been great on some versions, but the 710s have been more or less acceptable.
@@GWVillager I personally find the Aventras... quite boring.
Edit: I would probably like the Aventras more if it weren't for that irritating screech from the VF Drives. Seriously, why does every train nowadays produce an annoying screech instead of a pure tone? Example: S-stock vs 2009 stock. Same VF drive, one produces a screech, the other doesn't and is much nicer on the ears. Also the front looks... meh. Probably on par with the 319s. The interior looks pretty average too.
@@williamhuang8309 Fair enough, but they are still good trains.
323 robbed
The GWR 387 is much better
furst
???