Hi Richard, I love the Alex Loop, and appreciate your video. I think there are a few things not mentioned, one is Magnetic loops are a little different when it comes to trying to compare them to a traditional dipole. one they are ground independent and more responsive to the magnetic spectrum and 3 feet off the ground is all you really need, raising them higher is not going to do much unless you decided to run them horizontally polarized, then height may help on the lower bands like 40, , they are almost magical inside any structures and even in metal buildings you can make many solid contacts, S-2 to S-5 if more then enough for a good contact, they are super high Q antennas and you need to tune them properly and also not swing them so fast especially when peaking the signals, find that very top max signal hot spot and you will be amazed. it is critical that you make sure you turn and peak the signal correctly on the loop as it has a figure 8 pattern, with a deep null broadside, moving just a few inches peaking the signal either way can really make all the difference in the world. Since they are not a beam and are more a figure 8 pattern, you can set your antenna say North east to South west and cover a pretty wide swath but still fine tuning for peak is necessary. A lot of hams tune their loops and do not turn off their internal tuner and think getting a 1.5 to 2.0 match and then letting the auto tuner do the rest is the way to go, NOT!! it is like tuning a tuner and hurts the performance of the loop, use the built in Cap and get it as low as you can, if you can't get it below 1.5 then look for objects closer then 3 feet to the loop, usually that is the issue , most of the time your body will not keep it from getting a near perfect match. I have used my Alex loop in metal buildings where no traditional antennas could hear anything. I worked the WA state QSO party while set up at a local ham fest and it was located in a full concrete gym complex with no windows and a full metal roof yet I made 23 contacts split between SSB and CW. I had a crowd around me in amazement, They like any antenna will work better outside and CW and digital modes work very well for those whom know how to use the loop properly. I recommend all considering a magnetic look at the reviews on WWW.ham.net, my comments and observations are repeated many times by those whom took the plunge and took some time to really explore the antennas, The reviews on nearly all the top brand ones like the Alex Loop, the Chameleon Loop, W4OP loop , Alpha and several others seem to get mostly 5 reviews, there are a lot of hams using them as they fill a great void for those whom can not put up full size antennas, They are especially great for those needing something easy to deploy and are HOA restricted. I found it also important to try and make your loop a circle( as much a round circle as you can) and the Alex loop is easy to round up and line up, it is the little things can make a big difference, I have worked a lot of stations in just the last two month on my indoor loop and made even several Qs on 30 and 40, but agree 20 and up is always going to be best. I have also worked several DX stations, the loop is not for everyone but never discount it, Cheers and Happy New Year, 73 Jim
I've been using a loop on the 2nd floor in my shack for about a year. My results have been good - usually if I can hear them, they can hear me (I use 20/40/17), as well, I've found it easier to make contacts when band conditions aren't that great. My theory for that success is when the conditions are low, general static/noise is low too (and maybe less people in a pile up). I've only used it portable a few times so I can't comment about those results. Thanks for the video 👍
I am a very satisfied Alexloop user. With this antenna I have already made more than 2000 CW qso's with stations all over the world. The antenna goes with me on holiday or on biketrips. I use the Youkits HB-1B or the Yeasu FT-817 transceiver. I have also done comparative tests. And I have seen that the difference with a dipole can sometimes be small. Certainly on the 20 meter band for which this antenna has been optimized. 30 meters is also fine. 40 meter band is not recommended. For me, the Alexloop is a compromise between ease of use, portability and performance. We are now at the low point of the 11-year solar cycle. But within a few years the conditions are better again and that will be a good period for / P stations. then, the Alexloop will work optimally.
Hello and thanks for the GREAt video i was looking for ! I'm a magloop lover, seriously addicted by several reasons : first...it's a good way to fight the noise ( well, the rf component of ) but on local mountains ( i live in Italy ) i had tons of great results -and- best one was a Qso with a qrp'er wich was using a maglopp inside his apartment in London with a homebrewed "flexible" magloop....well VERY similar to the Alexloop one (this happened something like five years ago ..) . Of ourse the bands must be on good shape but what's best on magloops is : it's quiet...very LOW noise...wich help alot on the magic feeble signal . That said i've experimented alot with magloops and most on the homebrew part ( wich is fun ! ) . My first one was made by solid copper tube and a vacuum cap (THIS is the most important component..) i had it inside the house and it outperformed alot of times the rotatable dipole i had on the roof. Now, something to understand ( to those who don't know of course ) : there are two way to make the "coupling" wich can be "inductive" of physical. If you want the lowest noise you have to make the "inductive" coupling but that's makes the power transfering bit loss...mean you'll have loss on the transmitting power. Reversed, if you make a physical coupling you have a great power transfer but (because of the pysical join ) the noise won't be like the first choise . Magloops use the "skin" effect...so we can't think we get the same result between a solid and large size copper tube (some are made by aluminum but isn't the same as copper ) and a coaxial cable. The braid of the coax isn't "solid"...so the skin effect is bit less . Also the less connections between the aerial parts = the better. Last but not least, the variable cap . We can use a old air cap for sure....but (eg) if we use a "buttefly" the result will be way better. And, as i mentioned before, if a vacuum cap is the top . Portable magloops like the Alex one won't be very effective unfortunately , reasons are already described also the coupling loop is fixed...and this is something wrong because you have to have the choise to move it a bit to make a perfect coupling. I don't believe there's a butterfly cap inside the box, no. The fixed one i have at home is made from Spain, it has a large size tube and the cap is submerged on hydro oil. So nothing about the MFJ product nor the Mazzoni's magloop. At last i can say : magloops are FUN to use...a nice choice for those who can't have big aerials and basically you have a "notch" you tune on the band but it's the same between Qrp'ing and going with regular power : You need "some skills" for Qrp.....the same for MagLoops . de Adriano IZ3SVI
I'm another VERY happy Alexloop user, have been for around 8 years. I also have dipoles, EFWH and vertical portable antennas. For me, the loop always works better "than it really should" and I have taken it around the world with me. My use has been exclusively SSB on all bands between 10m-40m, with 5 watts or less. I am learning CW and I am looking forward to putting the loop into action with a new mode. I give it a 10/10 for its intended purpose, ease of use and performance for size.
Just found your channel. I'm using homebrew magnetic loop for HF at my base station since a year now. When magnetic loop are well made with the right component and size for the band, it's not as bad as you describe in my opinion. Diameter of the conductor for the main loop is critical for performance. Between a 1/2 inch coax and and heliax 1 inch coax per example, efficiency increase dramatically. Also the variable capacitor used is also critical. Using a vacuum variable capacitor will also increase dramatically the efficiency of the loop. It also help a lot in a noisy urban environment cause of the very high Q factor of the magnetic loop. I'm not a cw operator, so to me ssb and digital mode are the modes I use and I did a lot of SSB contact even on poor propagation condition the we experience over the last year, several thousand km contact with very good signal report. Even, sometime better signal report than other station using dipole at the same time. I'm not saying the the mag loop is better than a dipole, but it's not as bad as you stated. My distance record in ssb in 7500 km on 80M and in FT8 is 17000km on 40M. Here's you have picture of my magnetic loop installation. www.qrz.com/db/VA2SAJ
Used my AlexLoop with 5 watts out of a KX-2 on FT-8 from my "No Antennas" second-floor apartment balcony for a year. Worked all NA and SA and some Europe on 40 and 20. CW worked well too and the AlexLoop kept me on the air while we took a year to rebuild our house in a nearby community. Wire antennas while banned also were way too noisy in the apartment. All antennas require some propagation and, even better, quiet conditions can yield world-wide contacts. I can highly recommend the AlexLoop.
Thank you for the video! I have an MFJ-1788 (15M-40M) mag loop, I ran it exclusively for about a year on FT-8. It worked FB for me, though as with many MFJ products, it had its problems which I was able to correct. It's stored in the garage now as I have a different antenna and amplifier. Someday I may end up living with a daughter or in a nursing home, then that loop will come in handy again!
Great video! I like how you did a real-time construction of the loop. I myself have the MFJ-1786 mag loop in an attic space above my patio, but plan to move it outside on a painted mast and will disguise it with some artificial vines and stuff.
One thing is that loop size is paramount; It has to be built for the band you want to operate on. Yes you can make them resonate using a bigger capacitor, but that resonance is more by capacitance than for inductance. If you hold a field strength meter next to the loop, you will see how the output gets lower as you move below the design frequency range. If you want to work the lower bands, the size will be significantly larger, like 10 feet diameter, BUT you can do a 5 feet double loop (using spacers to keep the distance constant). A full range magnetic loop is a marketing ploy. I have several loop sizes that I switch when working different frequency ranges. 73 de WP3BM
My last couple of SOTA activations were done with a Precise Loop SOTA version. I agree that small loops are not very efficient on 40m, but I made a number of contacts the last couple of weekends on 40m with mine. As the higher bands open up, the little loop will perform better on those bands. There are times when a loop antenna is the better choice for portable operations, as you say. Thanks and well done sir. 73 de AG7TX
Lower bands require a bigger loop by design. Try a 10 feet loop or make a 5 feet dual loop (using the 1/5 size ratio for the feed loop, or like 2 feet for 10 feet loop). The smaller sized loop can be made to resonate at lower frequencies by using a bigger capacitor but will be very inefficient, that meaning less radiated energy. Experiments I made having a field strength meter integrated to the tuning box showed increasingly lower output as I went below the design frequency. 73 de WP3BM
I have an AlexLoop too. From my home QTH in NE England on 20m I was very surprised to get a response from Slovenia while I was tuning at 0.5W. Not as good as my G5RV obviously, but it clearly works!
Great video! I have an HFJ-319 portable loop that I tried using in my apartment. I’m able to tune it easily but I can barely hear anything unless the signal is quite strong. Mostly noise. I haven’t succeeded in making an SSB contact with it yet. Meanwhile I read lots of reviews on how well these all work indoors… I’m dubious of that. My building has a lot of metal cladding outside so I suspect that’s the reason? My random wire on my balcony works really well in comparison. I’ll try this outdoors once the weather warms up.
Not a diehard loop user but I enjoy my HG-1 from preciserf. Even in todays “poor” conditions it still gets out. And when I get tired of qrp it will handle 45 watts. I don’t expect it to perform like my home station but it occasionally surprises me. I wouldn’t use it as my first choice. However, if it is your only choice, you can still expect to have some fun.
I was bucks down and wanted to get a loop so I decided to spring for a W2LI loop that covers 40, 30 and 20 meters. That one is a club fundraiser that fit my wallet well. I got good results on SSB with it on my back porch. As the weather gets nicer I hope to get out with it and another loop that I purchased recently that claims 60-17 meter coverage. I'm going to give the two of them a comparison. Maybe I'll upload a video about it. LOL
Balanced and fair report and nicely produced, thank you. I've used an MFJ 1788 (15-40 MHz) MHz loop up about 6 feet for the past several years with 5-50 W depending on conditions. Just from a fun perspective (no measurements!) I'm happy with it for digital on all bands all the time, good enough for CW on 30 and above much of the time, not so much for SSB anywhere unless band is wide open. In short, they do work so if you're lacking in space, it will definitely get you on the air.
Dear Richard, I use a MFJ loop range 10 to 30 mhz and also another mfj loop with 7 to 21 mhz. I must say that I can make good contacts on cw and also ssb with a power output of 100 W. The butterfly condensator (aluminium) is welded on the loop so no losses into connections. In the ww contest i can worked big gun stations in the USA or South America... On 40 meters the rendement is lower then on 10 mhz and up....... I put the loop vertical on a little mast and about 4 meters up.. Enough low angle for dx....and when cq on 20m i see my signals in cw on reversebeacon from State side Canada...USA. I say , people who have no big space and have much neighbours with very short range , the loop no give RFI on audio equipment...because the magnetic component of the signal is nearby ,no electric field. I am still a fan of the loop antenna , pitty that the effiecenty will drop on 40m to 45% ......wel on 20m its about 70% and up to 10m 90%. Thanks for your nice video . Good work . 73 Robert PA3GEO Rilland JO21CJ
Great video as usual, im a loop user, well sort of. I use several loops at home but for receive only as the interference i get from VDSL is bad but using a loop for receive and a long wire for tx works for me. The ones i have are a 190ft horizontal loop fed by SGC237 tuner near to the ground, a G4TPH vertical tx/rx loop, a small MFJ loop tuner with various wire loops, plus a Wellbrook ALA-100 rx only with various wire loops. All perform differently, the Wellbrook is on par with the SGC237 in general. I think you also have to take into consideration if used at home the situation. I live in a terrace property surrounded by houses, not idea but the loops are a good compromise.
Loops are perfect for apartment living, (especially using slow digital modes,) because they have some noise immunity advantages but no significant length or height requirements in order to work well, as wire antennas do. On top of a mountain, far from electrical noise a wire antenna offers the best performance due to physical length, though what starts out as a compact wire antenna gets quite a bit more cumbersome once you start adding masts for barren mountaintop locations. Historical fact: The very first transmitting antenna was a loop. The very first receiving antenna was a loop.
I have a Chameleon F-loop that I’ve used during POTA activations. It certainly doesn’t work as well as does my SOTABeams BandHopper. Is CAN be a bit “fiddly” to tune and it is narrow banded. I’ve found using my antenna analyzer is a great help. For CW and especially digital modes where we park on one frequency, such as FT8 and JS8Call, it can really shine! The slight bit of directionality these loops have aids in targeting signals. My bottom line is that I’ll use it where conditions warrant and have been satisfied with it so far.
Thanks for these videos. I use a variety of antennas for SOTA including both the AlexLoop and the W4OP/LNR loop, and have learned a few important points for successful deployment. They are a bit ‘fiddly’ for tuning and can be very sensitive to you standing close to the loop-causing difficulties in tuning. This is where some extra height will help. I use a 6 foot tripod (light stand) which really helps, and a small antenna analyzer to get it close before I hook it up to the radio. Also make sure your radio is in bypass mode if it has an internal antenna tuner-this will make it much easier to tune. The extra height also does make a difference in performance 6-10 feet is a maximum. Remember too they’re somewhat directional in the plane of the loop which may help both in signal strength and noise reduction. I have found the W4OP to have better results especially on 30 and 40 M than the AlexLoop but the trade off is it’s heavier ( but more robust) and made with more efficient materials. They do make a backpack system for this loop which really helps. Get the loop up in the air-tune carefully allowing for your body and try rotating it. The best ones are expensive due to quality components and construction, but it’s possible to build one if you’re careful. Easy to deploy and usually wind isn’t a factor due to relatively short heights. I always have a few options on each outing-loop, short vertical, end fed and maybe a lightweight dipole depending on the terrain and situation. Don’t rule out the loop-it does have a learning curve. Dan N7CQR
I'm very happy with my alex loop. I've made dx contacts with it set up inside in my living room with a ft817 and the xiegu g90. Made contacts to italy, the azores, Spain, Cuba and lots of stateside contacts on 15 watts inside the house, brilliant! Easy for use on the beach or portable....no counterpoise wires about or long feeder lines. Simple and easy. I'm a ssb phone only operator and I always make qsos when I use it, always, so its my primary portable antenna. I give it 5 stars as its easy to take on vacation as well. Greg, kc3obq
A loop should be used at its optimum frequency which is almost certainly going to be its highest frequency. I made three loops for each band of interest (10, 20, 40 meters) and each loop is as large as it can be and still tune that band. I use the MFJ portable loop tuner which uses a capacitor match so I don't need or use that somewhat clumsy "little loop" inside the big loop. This variable capacitor match allows to obtain nearly perfect SWR whereas with an inductive feed loop there's rather a lot of inconvenient fiddling to get it just right. As many here have discovered, using a loop that is good on 15 meters is lousy on 40. My 40 meter loop is 20 feet of half-inch diameter copper tubing. It works well and is slightly non-circular to fit the available space. Naturally such an antenna is not exactly suited to SOTA but works well for apartment dwellers or anywhere else a beam antenna on a 60 foot tower is not possible, permitted, or afforded.
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures Well I'm well awake now. Storm Dennis just arrived and I'm on a 7 ton motorboat (thankfully not at sea). Wow. This is way stronger than the forecast was saying!
This autumn I have been running a simple test: Took out the alex loop, chameleon mpas 2.0 with cap hat, military full size dipole -80 to 10m- and buddypole. Top of a 1200m mountain in sounthern Switzerland, from 11AM to 4 PM. As radio we used a 20W Xiegu G90. We could immediately switch between each antenna. The Alexloop, which takes 20w with no problems, was as good as any other antenna for both local and DX up to 20m. But also on 40m the difference between the loop and the full size dipole, mounted at inverted V on top of a 8.5m mast, was minimal. Signals would vary plus minus 1S point across the different aerials. Sometime being stronger on one, and with another station the best signal would occur on a different one. In the past I have been using monoband loops for 80 & 160m. IF built as they should, to equal their performances you will be spending considerable money and need a lot of space. By no mean are magnetic loop to be considered low efficient aerials to be used as a compromise.
Ferdinando, I have a Chameleon loop and have been very happy with it and my G90 indoors in a condo where no outdoor antennas are allowed. It is my first HF rig so I've got a lot to learn and some residential noise issues to hunt down (LED lights seem to really be picked up by the loop). I'd be interested in more detail on your experience with the mpas vs. the buddypole - I'm considering them both as a "next HF antenna" for field use. Cheers!
I love my MPAS 2.0, also with CAP HAT and was Blown away the first time I made a contact from here in Ireland to Brazil on 20m in May 2020 and that was using just the single counterpoise. I made several contacts to South America from Ireland, to say I was impressed is an understatement, so much in fact it's now installed Permanently, I use it with the FT-891 in my sitting room mostly when I don't want to go to the shack, so much for an Antenna I intended to use only portable! I also found the MPAS 2.0 to be an excellent antenna for SWL too and it surprised me how quiet it is. I must add more radials.
Great video Richard. I have been using home made loops since the 1980's. I made them with 1" or larger diameter Alu tubing and capacitors plates that could have their spacing adjusted. Everything was welded. They worked quite well. But once I moved and was able to install other antennas, I dropped the loops. When I saw Alex at his first exhibit in Dayton I thought it might be interesting to try the coax construction. I tried home build and commercial (I didn't try the Alex loop but it should show the same results) , they all have been a disappointment. I have to add that I now operate mostly QRP. Like Richard says, if the propagation is very good and the higher bands are open it is a different story. For portable I now stick with my 32ft telescopic pole and an EFHW. 73.
I've had great success with the Superantenna MP1 with the FT-891 @ 100 watts, ok sure, it's not QRP at this power and I do love QRP but sometimes when I get out portable which is rare I just want to make contacts and 100 Watts makes all the difference. With just an 8.4Ah LiFeP04 I can operate @100 watts for a good few hrs. I do miss my Xiegu X5105, that was a great radio for the money but just didn't have the time to operate to justify keeping it but great compact radio with a good 12v battery and I could operate for 5 hrs easily. What makes the Super antenna MP1 so special is that it can work I think up to 300 watts and it breaks down into an incredibly small package, I mean insanely small and with the supplied clamp I can clamp the antenna to the gate of a field. I have used it a lot and it works great, I got from Ireland to Canada once and made a 1000 mile contact on 80 Meters one night but don't usually try for DX when I'm portable and I don't use it much for 80m. I must actually set it up tonight and see if I can make more contacts on 80m. One thing with the MP1 and 80m coil is that you will have to take off the coil to work the other bands and each band change means a trip back to the antenna which is my main reason for getting the Chameleon MPAS 2.0, this Antenna works really well and I've made some crazy DX from Ireland to South America on 20m in the Summer of 2020. Not nearly as compact as the MP1 broken down but it takes 5 mins to set up, works up to 100 Watts SSB and I always make contacts on it too but it's not so good on 80m but no need to go back and forth to the antenna for each band change. I use the CAP HAT and just the single supplied Counterpoise, very impressed with the MPAS 2.0 and it included 75m of wire so you can use this for 80m and NVIS. Very versatile antenna. The MPAS 2.0 vertical is so good I decided to leave it setup permanently on the front lawn and use it with the 891 in the sitting room when I don't want to go to the shack, it makes a great SWL antenna too and it impressed me how quiet it is on receive. I will only take it down to work portable which is the exact opposite of what I intended it for but I was so impressed with it I had to leave it up permanently and use it a lot which justifies the money spent on it rather than have it to use it only a couple of times a year. If compactness is ultra important, good performance and 100 watts then the Super Antenna MP1 is definitely well worth a look and it's extremely well built too, I would recommend an antenna analyser when tuning the Antenna. If Super Antenna could come up with a remote setup it would be fantastic. I would love to try a loop someday.
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures True, I don't think a Loop antenna would give me anything near the performance I get with the MPAS 2.0 still getting great DX with it. Still using only the single supplied radial but I have the matching 4 radials on the way and I think I will try elevate them which I believe reduces the ground losses compared to many more radials on the ground. The MPAS 2.0 certainly has impressed me for the last year.
My investigations of loop designs using a VNA suggest that some of the commonly illustrated pickup/TX elements do not work well and/or are extremely difficult to tune. More experiments are needed to come up with a really practical design. I did, however make a good and clear contact using a loop tuned for 2m mounted on a Baofeng UV-9R first time out.
Aha! Seems I stayed up till 2am Pacific for a reason. Good video. I found mine to be a pain to use. Set up was ok, then I just sat there twisting knob and nobody could really hear me compared to a wire so I sold it. It was an expensive mistake, glad I got most of my money back.
Richard Newstead yes true. However taking my money without much in return seemed to be my experience. Like you say, many videos are exaggerated. I fell for it a bit.
The magnetic loop attenuates unwanted and unneeded off frequency signals, it does not require a tree a pole or guy wires. I like the off center fed dipole or long wire if a tree is available. I hate that I need to constantly tune the Magnetic loop if just doing hunt and pounce operation. I may rethink this whole portable qrp thing and start operating QRO Portable operation with FULL LEGAL limit. 🙂
You said you might have to tune the antenna from CW to SSB on 20 meters, but if I tune the antenna on 14.225 will I have a low SWR at 13.500? Or will I have to retune? thx.
Hi Richard. In a previous life working for a government department we did some tests using magnetic loops, across the HF spectum. Some if the tests were on top of a flat roof building 100 feet up. Not as effective as at ground level on any frequency. Despite their compact size, and reasonably transportable, they may not behave well at height. Performance was much better at ground level. Interesting stuff. de EA8/G4CAZ
Another great video. Your presentation and productions skills are exceptional. I wonder if a loop like this would assist to reduce QRM at home, where 40m and 80m noise is often as high as S9. I would expect the overall signals received to be lower than say a dipole, but would the signal to noise ratio improve making reception possible?
You really should be tuning the loop whilst positioned on the 'null' side of the antenna to avoid your body coupling to it and detuning it because as you walk away from it, the VSWR will change again. Tune it from the NULL side. The only reason Magloops are commonly restricted to QRP pwr levels is because of the economy of construction. The capacitor is the most expensive ingredient and the higher the voltage Air variable or Vacuum variable will raise the price sky high. Construction resulting in the least resistance with a desireable amount of skin effect within an LC tuned circuit is the goal. Swap ends of the capacitor and primary loop radiator. It works best to place the capacitor as far away from ground. Can't reach that high? - use a dc electric motor to tune remotely. You will need to anyway at QRO levels.
Five years ago I used a Alexloop on 20/40 m with good result, using 5 w. Of course it's not a beam. Later I sold it. Alexloop are very expensive. Last year I bought a new loop from LNR precisions a W4OP LOOP antenna. Expensive. Hard to tune and with not so good result. I sold it and give a try to a new cheap OM0ET loop. Same result as the W4OP. I believe it’s impossible to compare loops few years ago with loops last year, depending the bad conds for the moment. Alexloop has a new tuning equipment, sold by Martin&Lynch, not cheap. SM7RYR
@EA3BV - O cause, very expensive, specially if you consider the price of a peace of coax and and the eBay cap that this loop use.... But, they say that there is a "build in secret" that make it worth.... May be? No way, that's a sales trick.... ;-) With a vertical pole antenna and a feedpoint ATU you are able to cover all bands, good TX gain and the setup is done eaven faster.
As I wrote my loops in the 80s were welded and just like the Mazoni loop it makes a huge difference in efficiency. The smallest ohmic resistance will quickly decrease the efficiency.
I considered a magnetic loop, in my location huge antenna's are a definite no, no. nosey neighbour with to much time on their hands syndrome, so I'll keep looking for a portable type where I can put it up and take it down as and when.
It’s easy enough to make one yourself. Heaps of plans online, use copper pipe for a fixed antenna and coax for a variable one. Second hand variable caps are cheap at hamfests or on eBay. Surprised Richard doesn’t sell a diy loop makers kit... 73 VK4QP.
I have a loop antenna but as yet I have not used it. I'm not sure what to do with it. I have no idea of power handling. RX or TX, Which band it can be used for. It is old and aluminium with a huge cylinder, (capacitor) I guess.
As a listener only I tried several RX loops and found it hard to even detect their existence so for TX now I'm very wary. There is a huge variation in prices for loops which appear to be pretty much the same technically so what can I expect for my money? Are the expensive ones really much better than the cheap ones? I do get the impression that some bands are more favoured but is this not just down to loop diameter? I have the same doubts about hamsticks. Problem is that i really need to use something like these for portability where there are no trees for a dipole hanging. Whats the experience of ground loops for 40m end?
I made one out of copper tubing (both outer and inner loops), the outer being 83cm in diameter. The maximum send power is really dictated by the capacitor. When it starts to arc, a capacitor with higher voltage rating is needed.
Richard, thank you for a well thought-out and thoughtfully edited video. I would take issue with a few of the generalizations. A loop made of soft copper refrigeration tubing, optimization of losses, and larger diameter for both the loop and its tubing can bring a loop within an S-unit of a dipole 10 meters high on 40m. I'm not sure why they've become so popular with the SOTA crowd, where power is usually compromised, too. My application is an attic antenna to avoid my antenna restrictions, and my initial tests indicate it will be very close to a dipole on 40m if both are indoors. Also, I think you'd agree that low sunspot activity is not just a problem for loops! That one was a head-scratcher! 73 - Paul, AE4KR
How do you find tuning your loop cap whilst keeping it in the attic? I have visions of climbing a ladder every few minutes if i did that. Do you have a way of tuning remotely?
I use a loop portable on 40 and 80 regularly however they don't work well mounted low mine is 20 meters high mounted horizontally normal reports 5 by 9 every time and that omnidirectional the loop is a wonderfull preselector, loop home Hebrew with a cap from otto Schubert gmbh in Germany when I drive the motor relies g the relay shorts the motor so giving immediate brick wall stop of the shaft
Loops are good for beach HF operations. They are not too great for SSB and I don’t do CW so I’m building a portable digital solutions for the beach. PS if I have room I will use a good vertical or dipole depending on the band.
Hi Richard, is that my old AlexLoop I sold you? Your conclusions appear to be similar to mine - I had success (even indoors) with WSPR but not SSB outdoors for example. 73, David M0VGA
Hi. Richard first thing first I like your channel alot, and this was a good informative video...I ve homebrewed a loop, and I m quite happy with it..farthest contact i had with it on SSB was around 4000 km using 25 watts...so what i think loops are good at slightly higher power levels i.e 20 to 30 watts...so thats just my simple opinion with experience. Thanx
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures This actually depends on the voltage rating of the capacitor that is used. The higher the rating, the higher power you can use.
Richard, I am afraid I disagree with your conclusions, entirely. Out of all the objectionable statements I find in your video, this is the biggest: "be cautions when viewing youtube videos showing great results on SSB with people using loops, look at when they were posted, as loop performance varies over an approximate 11 years cycle". An 11 years cycle loop performance?!? I thought that was the solar cycle. Besides, how many great SSB/portable/loop videos could you possibly find from so many years ago? Could you link one? (I am genuinely curious). In any event, dxing on SSB is the norm with magnetic loops. And I mean now, not at the peak of a solar cycle. When propagation (and spare time!) allows, I take the loop out and I DX *every single time*. Sometimes I upload videos to youtube, please check them out. Rest assured: they are not from 1981. You might also want to check vk3ye's videos (they are A LOT better than mine, of course). He often makes the US from Australia using his loop. Best Regards Alain K1FM
I found Richard made some generalisations which aren't necessarily warranted. Lots of parameters depend on materials used, rating of the capacitor, etc... And as he found out, operating on lower frequencies requires larger loops (or loops with multiple turns) to keep the same efficiency. Just like you can't work the 80m band with a one-meter long dipole, you can't expect a magloop with one meter diameter to work there.
Hi Richard, I love the Alex Loop, and appreciate your video. I think there are a few things not mentioned, one is Magnetic loops are a little different when it comes to trying to compare them to a traditional dipole. one they are ground independent and more responsive to the magnetic spectrum and 3 feet off the ground is all you really need, raising them higher is not going to do much unless you decided to run them horizontally polarized, then height may help on the lower bands like 40, , they are almost magical inside any structures and even in metal buildings you can make many solid contacts, S-2 to S-5 if more then enough for a good contact, they are super high Q antennas and you need to tune them properly and also not swing them so fast especially when peaking the signals, find that very top max signal hot spot and you will be amazed. it is critical that you make sure you turn and peak the signal correctly on the loop as it has a figure 8 pattern, with a deep null broadside, moving just a few inches peaking the signal either way can really make all the difference in the world. Since they are not a beam and are more a figure 8 pattern, you can set your antenna say North east to South west and cover a pretty wide swath but still fine tuning for peak is necessary. A lot of hams tune their loops and do not turn off their internal tuner and think getting a 1.5 to 2.0 match and then letting the auto tuner do the rest is the way to go, NOT!! it is like tuning a tuner and hurts the performance of the loop, use the built in Cap and get it as low as you can, if you can't get it below 1.5 then look for objects closer then 3 feet to the loop, usually that is the issue , most of the time your body will not keep it from getting a near perfect match. I have used my Alex loop in metal buildings where no traditional antennas could hear anything. I worked the WA state QSO party while set up at a local ham fest and it was located in a full concrete gym complex with no windows and a full metal roof yet I made 23 contacts split between SSB and CW. I had a crowd around me in amazement, They like any antenna will work better outside and CW and digital modes work very well for those whom know how to use the loop properly. I recommend all considering a magnetic look at the reviews on WWW.ham.net, my comments and observations are repeated many times by those whom took the plunge and took some time to really explore the antennas, The reviews on nearly all the top brand ones like the Alex Loop, the Chameleon Loop, W4OP loop , Alpha and several others seem to get mostly 5 reviews, there are a lot of hams using them as they fill a great void for those whom can not put up full size antennas, They are especially great for those needing something easy to deploy and are HOA restricted. I found it also important to try and make your loop a circle( as much a round circle as you can) and the Alex loop is easy to round up and line up, it is the little things can make a big difference, I have worked a lot of stations in just the last two month on my indoor loop and made even several Qs on 30 and 40, but agree 20 and up is always going to be best. I have also worked several DX stations, the loop is not for everyone but never discount it, Cheers and Happy New Year, 73 Jim
Thanks for your detailed observations Jim. I am sure that my viewers will find them interesting.
I've been using a loop on the 2nd floor in my shack for about a year. My results have been good - usually if I can hear them, they can hear me (I use 20/40/17), as well, I've found it easier to make contacts when band conditions aren't that great. My theory for that success is when the conditions are low, general static/noise is low too (and maybe less people in a pile up). I've only used it portable a few times so I can't comment about those results. Thanks for the video 👍
Loops certainly have their place!
I am a very satisfied Alexloop user. With this antenna I have already made more than 2000 CW qso's with stations all over the world. The antenna goes with me on holiday or on biketrips. I use the Youkits HB-1B or the Yeasu FT-817 transceiver. I have also done comparative tests. And I have seen that the difference with a dipole can sometimes be small. Certainly on the 20 meter band for which this antenna has been optimized. 30 meters is also fine. 40 meter band is not recommended. For me, the Alexloop is a compromise between ease of use, portability and performance. We are now at the low point of the 11-year solar cycle. But within a few years the conditions are better again and that will be a good period for / P stations. then, the Alexloop will work optimally.
Hi Peter, agreed. Loops have their applications.
Hello and thanks for the GREAt video i was looking for ! I'm a magloop lover, seriously addicted by several reasons : first...it's a good way to fight the noise ( well, the rf component of ) but on local mountains ( i live in Italy ) i had tons of great results -and- best one was a Qso with a qrp'er wich was using a maglopp inside his apartment in London with a homebrewed "flexible" magloop....well VERY similar to the Alexloop one (this happened something like five years ago ..) . Of ourse the bands must be on good shape but what's best on magloops is : it's quiet...very LOW noise...wich help alot on the magic feeble signal . That said i've experimented alot with magloops and most on the homebrew part ( wich is fun ! ) . My first one was made by solid copper tube and a vacuum cap (THIS is the most important component..) i had it inside the house and it outperformed alot of times the rotatable dipole i had on the roof. Now, something to understand ( to those who don't know of course ) : there are two way to make the "coupling" wich can be "inductive" of physical. If you want the lowest noise you have to make the "inductive" coupling but that's makes the power transfering bit loss...mean you'll have loss on the transmitting power. Reversed, if you make a physical coupling you have a great power transfer but (because of the pysical join ) the noise won't be like the first choise . Magloops use the "skin" effect...so we can't think we get the same result between a solid and large size copper tube (some are made by aluminum but isn't the same as copper ) and a coaxial cable. The braid of the coax isn't "solid"...so the skin effect is bit less . Also the less connections between the aerial parts = the better. Last but not least, the variable cap . We can use a old air cap for sure....but (eg) if we use a "buttefly" the result will be way better. And, as i mentioned before, if a vacuum cap is the top . Portable magloops like the Alex one won't be very effective unfortunately , reasons are already described also the coupling loop is fixed...and this is something wrong because you have to have the choise to move it a bit to make a perfect coupling. I don't believe there's a butterfly cap inside the box, no. The fixed one i have at home is made from Spain, it has a large size tube and the cap is submerged on hydro oil. So nothing about the MFJ product nor the Mazzoni's magloop. At last i can say : magloops are FUN to use...a nice choice for those who can't have big aerials and basically you have a "notch" you tune on the band but it's the same between Qrp'ing and going with regular power : You need "some skills" for Qrp.....the same for MagLoops . de Adriano IZ3SVI
Hi Adriano - loops can be fun. I have used mine indoors on WSPR and have got quite good results.
I'm another VERY happy Alexloop user, have been for around 8 years. I also have dipoles, EFWH and vertical portable antennas. For me, the loop always works better "than it really should" and I have taken it around the world with me. My use has been exclusively SSB on all bands between 10m-40m, with 5 watts or less. I am learning CW and I am looking forward to putting the loop into action with a new mode. I give it a 10/10 for its intended purpose, ease of use and performance for size.
Agreed. Don't expect miracles and you will be happy. Loops are a useful antenna type - no doubt.
Just found your channel. I'm using homebrew magnetic loop for HF at my base station since a year now. When magnetic loop are well made with the right component and size for the band, it's not as bad as you describe in my opinion. Diameter of the conductor for the main loop is critical for performance. Between a 1/2 inch coax and and heliax 1 inch coax per example, efficiency increase dramatically. Also the variable capacitor used is also critical. Using a vacuum variable capacitor will also increase dramatically the efficiency of the loop. It also help a lot in a noisy urban environment cause of the very high Q factor of the magnetic loop. I'm not a cw operator, so to me ssb and digital mode are the modes I use and I did a lot of SSB contact even on poor propagation condition the we experience over the last year, several thousand km contact with very good signal report. Even, sometime better signal report than other station using dipole at the same time. I'm not saying the the mag loop is better than a dipole, but it's not as bad as you stated. My distance record in ssb in 7500 km on 80M and in FT8 is 17000km on 40M. Here's you have picture of my magnetic loop installation. www.qrz.com/db/VA2SAJ
"it's not as bad as you stated" I did careful objective measurements. If you do similar sometime, please do share them.
I have very limited knowledge about amateur radio but still enjoy this channel 👍😎
Hi Paul
Same here, just recently got my novice license. I learn a lot with this videos
73 HB3XTZ
Thanks - I hope that you will enjoy the hobby.
Used my AlexLoop with 5 watts out of a KX-2 on FT-8 from my "No Antennas" second-floor apartment balcony for a year. Worked all NA and SA and some Europe on 40 and 20. CW worked well too and the AlexLoop kept me on the air while we took a year to rebuild our house in a nearby community. Wire antennas while banned also were way too noisy in the apartment. All antennas require some propagation and, even better, quiet conditions can yield world-wide contacts. I can highly recommend the AlexLoop.
Thanks for your feedback Peter.
Thank you for the video! I have an MFJ-1788 (15M-40M) mag loop, I ran it exclusively for about a year on FT-8. It worked FB for me, though as with many MFJ products, it had its problems which I was able to correct. It's stored in the garage now as I have a different antenna and amplifier. Someday I may end up living with a daughter or in a nursing home, then that loop will come in handy again!
The MFJ loops are quite a good design in many ways. A bit crudely made though.
Great video! I like how you did a real-time construction of the loop. I myself have the MFJ-1786 mag loop in an attic space above my patio, but plan to move it outside on a painted mast and will disguise it with some artificial vines and stuff.
Thanks. Lots more videos to come.
Thanks for you honesty. I have an AlexLoop, but so far I have used only for rx and as such is a great antenna.
Try it on transmit - you might be surprised!
One thing is that loop size is paramount; It has to be built for the band you want to operate on. Yes you can make them resonate using a bigger capacitor, but that resonance is more by capacitance than for inductance. If you hold a field strength meter next to the loop, you will see how the output gets lower as you move below the design frequency range. If you want to work the lower bands, the size will be significantly larger, like 10 feet diameter, BUT you can do a 5 feet double loop (using spacers to keep the distance constant). A full range magnetic loop is a marketing ploy. I have several loop sizes that I switch when working different frequency ranges. 73 de WP3BM
My last couple of SOTA activations were done with a Precise Loop SOTA version. I agree that small loops are not very efficient on 40m, but I made a number of contacts the last couple of weekends on 40m with mine. As the higher bands open up, the little loop will perform better on those bands. There are times when a loop antenna is the better choice for portable operations, as you say. Thanks and well done sir. 73 de AG7TX
Lower bands require a bigger loop by design. Try a 10 feet loop or make a 5 feet dual loop (using the 1/5 size ratio for the feed loop, or like 2 feet for 10 feet loop). The smaller sized loop can be made to resonate at lower frequencies by using a bigger capacitor but will be very inefficient, that meaning less radiated energy. Experiments I made having a field strength meter integrated to the tuning box showed increasingly lower output as I went below the design frequency. 73 de WP3BM
I have an AlexLoop too. From my home QTH in NE England on 20m I was very surprised to get a response from Slovenia while I was tuning at 0.5W. Not as good as my G5RV obviously, but it clearly works!
Great video!
I have an HFJ-319 portable loop that I tried using in my apartment. I’m
able to tune it easily but I can barely hear anything unless the signal is quite strong. Mostly noise. I haven’t succeeded in making an SSB contact with it yet. Meanwhile I read lots of reviews on how well these all work indoors… I’m dubious of that.
My building has a lot of metal cladding outside so I suspect that’s the reason? My random wire on my balcony works really well in comparison.
I’ll try this outdoors once the weather warms up.
Not a diehard loop user but I enjoy my HG-1 from preciserf. Even in todays “poor” conditions it still gets out. And when I get tired of qrp it will handle 45 watts.
I don’t expect it to perform like my home station but it occasionally surprises me. I wouldn’t use it as my first choice. However, if it is your only choice, you can still expect to have some fun.
I was bucks down and wanted to get a loop so I decided to spring for a W2LI loop that covers 40, 30 and 20 meters. That one is a club fundraiser that fit my wallet well. I got good results on SSB with it on my back porch. As the weather gets nicer I hope to get out with it and another loop that I purchased recently that claims 60-17 meter coverage. I'm going to give the two of them a comparison. Maybe I'll upload a video about it. LOL
Balanced and fair report and nicely produced, thank you. I've used an MFJ 1788 (15-40 MHz) MHz loop up about 6 feet for the past several years with 5-50 W depending on conditions. Just from a fun perspective (no measurements!) I'm happy with it for digital on all bands all the time, good enough for CW on 30 and above much of the time, not so much for SSB anywhere unless band is wide open. In short, they do work so if you're lacking in space, it will definitely get you on the air.
Thanks!
Dear Richard, I use a MFJ loop range 10 to 30 mhz and also another mfj loop with 7 to 21 mhz.
I must say that I can make good contacts on cw and also ssb with a power output of 100 W.
The butterfly condensator (aluminium) is welded on the loop so no losses into connections.
In the ww contest i can worked big gun stations in the USA or South America...
On 40 meters the rendement is lower then on 10 mhz and up.......
I put the loop vertical on a little mast and about 4 meters up.. Enough low angle for dx....and when cq on 20m i see my signals in cw on reversebeacon from State side Canada...USA.
I say , people who have no big space and have much neighbours with very short range , the loop no give RFI on audio equipment...because the magnetic component of the signal is nearby ,no electric field.
I am still a fan of the loop antenna , pitty that the effiecenty will drop on 40m to 45% ......wel on 20m its about 70% and up to 10m 90%.
Thanks for your nice video . Good work . 73 Robert PA3GEO Rilland JO21CJ
I also have an MFJ loop. It’s a good design!
Great video as usual, im a loop user, well sort of. I use several loops at home but for receive only as the interference i get from VDSL is bad but using a loop for receive and a long wire for tx works for me. The ones i have are a 190ft horizontal loop fed by SGC237 tuner near to the ground, a G4TPH vertical tx/rx loop, a small MFJ loop tuner with various wire loops, plus a Wellbrook ALA-100 rx only with various wire loops. All perform differently, the Wellbrook is on par with the SGC237 in general. I think you also have to take into consideration if used at home the situation. I live in a terrace property surrounded by houses, not idea but the loops are a good compromise.
Loops are certainly useful in some circumstances.
Loops are perfect for apartment living, (especially using slow digital modes,) because they have some noise immunity advantages but no significant length or height requirements in order to work well, as wire antennas do. On top of a mountain, far from electrical noise a wire antenna offers the best performance due to physical length, though what starts out as a compact wire antenna gets quite a bit more cumbersome once you start adding masts for barren mountaintop locations.
Historical fact: The very first transmitting antenna was a loop. The very first receiving antenna was a loop.
I have a Chameleon F-loop that I’ve used during POTA activations. It certainly doesn’t work as well as does my SOTABeams BandHopper. Is CAN be a bit “fiddly” to tune and it is narrow banded. I’ve found using my antenna analyzer is a great help. For CW and especially digital modes where we park on one frequency, such as FT8 and JS8Call, it can really shine! The slight bit of directionality these loops have aids in targeting signals. My bottom line is that I’ll use it where conditions warrant and have been satisfied with it so far.
Hi Steve - yes, loops have their uses but they are often oversold by their advocates!
interesting result there, something to bare in mind for future activations.
In many ways, an antenna of last resort!
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures I would say so considering the size and weight compare to a wire dipole.
Thanks for these videos. I use a variety of antennas for SOTA including both the AlexLoop and the W4OP/LNR loop, and have learned a few important points for successful deployment. They are a bit ‘fiddly’ for tuning and can be very sensitive to you standing close to the loop-causing difficulties in tuning. This is where some extra height will help. I use a 6 foot tripod (light stand) which really helps, and a small antenna analyzer to get it close before I hook it up to the radio. Also make sure your radio is in bypass mode if it has an internal antenna tuner-this will make it much easier to tune. The extra height also does make a difference in performance 6-10 feet is a maximum. Remember too they’re somewhat directional in the plane of the loop which may help both in signal strength and noise reduction. I have found the W4OP to have better results especially on 30 and 40 M than the AlexLoop but the trade off is it’s heavier ( but more robust) and made with more efficient materials. They do make a backpack system for this loop which really helps. Get the loop up in the air-tune carefully allowing for your body and try rotating it. The best ones are expensive due to quality components and construction, but it’s possible to build one if you’re careful. Easy to deploy and usually wind isn’t a factor due to relatively short heights. I always have a few options on each outing-loop, short vertical, end fed and maybe a lightweight dipole depending on the terrain and situation. Don’t rule out the loop-it does have a learning curve.
Dan N7CQR
Hi Dan. Thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure if you watched the video. I did not rule out loops.
I'm very happy with my alex loop. I've made dx contacts with it set up inside in my living room with a ft817 and the xiegu g90. Made contacts to italy, the azores, Spain, Cuba and lots of stateside contacts on 15 watts inside the house, brilliant! Easy for use on the beach or portable....no counterpoise wires about or long feeder lines. Simple and easy. I'm a ssb phone only operator and I always make qsos when I use it, always, so its my primary portable antenna. I give it 5 stars as its easy to take on vacation as well. Greg, kc3obq
A loop should be used at its optimum frequency which is almost certainly going to be its highest frequency. I made three loops for each band of interest (10, 20, 40 meters) and each loop is as large as it can be and still tune that band. I use the MFJ portable loop tuner which uses a capacitor match so I don't need or use that somewhat clumsy "little loop" inside the big loop. This variable capacitor match allows to obtain nearly perfect SWR whereas with an inductive feed loop there's rather a lot of inconvenient fiddling to get it just right.
As many here have discovered, using a loop that is good on 15 meters is lousy on 40. My 40 meter loop is 20 feet of half-inch diameter copper tubing. It works well and is slightly non-circular to fit the available space. Naturally such an antenna is not exactly suited to SOTA but works well for apartment dwellers or anywhere else a beam antenna on a 60 foot tower is not possible, permitted, or afforded.
I have built a couple of loops. Love them.
Got a magloop video on my channel. Built last year. Probably £10 of bits....useful for SWL or QRP in tight places! I must revisit it!
If you can get a good capacitor, they can indeed be made quite easily.
Useful tool to null out noise at home. Especially on lower bands. The wellbrook is a great example. This would be RX only of course.
I agree. The directional characteristics are an advantage that I failed to mention.
Oh my days. I was soldering an experiment, listing to this in the background, and jumped out of my skin at 3:00! Haha. Crikey that woke me up.
Like to keep my viewers awake if at all possible. Thanks for watching.
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures Well I'm well awake now. Storm Dennis just arrived and I'm on a 7 ton motorboat (thankfully not at sea). Wow. This is way stronger than the forecast was saying!
This autumn I have been running a simple test:
Took out the alex loop, chameleon mpas 2.0 with cap hat, military full size dipole -80 to 10m- and buddypole.
Top of a 1200m mountain in sounthern Switzerland, from 11AM to 4 PM.
As radio we used a 20W Xiegu G90. We could immediately switch between each antenna.
The Alexloop, which takes 20w with no problems, was as good as any other antenna for both local and DX up to 20m.
But also on 40m the difference between the loop and the full size dipole, mounted at inverted V on top of a 8.5m mast, was minimal.
Signals would vary plus minus 1S point across the different aerials. Sometime being stronger on one, and with another station the best signal would occur on a different one.
In the past I have been using monoband loops for 80 & 160m. IF built as they should, to equal their performances you will be spending considerable money and need a lot of space.
By no mean are magnetic loop to be considered low efficient aerials to be used as a compromise.
The physics would suggest otherwise but if you are happy with the performance, that’s fine.
Ferdinando, I have a Chameleon loop and have been very happy with it and my G90 indoors in a condo where no outdoor antennas are allowed. It is my first HF rig so I've got a lot to learn and some residential noise issues to hunt down (LED lights seem to really be picked up by the loop). I'd be interested in more detail on your experience with the mpas vs. the buddypole - I'm considering them both as a "next HF antenna" for field use. Cheers!
I love my MPAS 2.0, also with CAP HAT and was Blown away the first time I made a contact from here in Ireland to Brazil on 20m in May 2020 and that was using just the single counterpoise.
I made several contacts to South America from Ireland, to say I was impressed is an understatement, so much in fact it's now installed Permanently, I use it with the FT-891 in my sitting room mostly when I don't want to go to the shack, so much for an Antenna I intended to use only portable!
I also found the MPAS 2.0 to be an excellent antenna for SWL too and it surprised me how quiet it is.
I must add more radials.
Great video Richard.
I have been using home made loops since the 1980's. I made them with 1" or larger diameter Alu tubing and capacitors plates that could have their spacing adjusted. Everything was welded.
They worked quite well.
But once I moved and was able to install other antennas, I dropped the loops.
When I saw Alex at his first exhibit in Dayton I thought it might be interesting to try the coax construction. I tried home build and commercial (I didn't try the Alex loop but it should show the
same results) , they all have been a disappointment.
I have to add that I now operate mostly QRP.
Like Richard says, if the propagation is very good and the higher bands are open it is a different story. For portable I now stick with my 32ft telescopic pole and an EFHW.
73.
loops remain better than nothing and given a bit of luck, they can yeild interesting contacts. Just don't expect miracles!
I've had great success with the Superantenna MP1 with the FT-891 @ 100 watts, ok sure, it's not QRP at this power and I do love QRP but sometimes when I get out portable which is rare I just want to make contacts and 100 Watts makes all the difference. With just an 8.4Ah LiFeP04 I can operate @100 watts for a good few hrs. I do miss my Xiegu X5105, that was a great radio for the money but just didn't have the time to operate to justify keeping it but great compact radio with a good 12v battery and I could operate for 5 hrs easily.
What makes the Super antenna MP1 so special is that it can work I think up to 300 watts and it breaks down into an incredibly small package, I mean insanely small and with the supplied clamp I can clamp the antenna to the gate of a field. I have used it a lot and it works great, I got from Ireland to Canada once and made a 1000 mile contact on 80 Meters one night but don't usually try for DX when I'm portable and I don't use it much for 80m. I must actually set it up tonight and see if I can make more contacts on 80m.
One thing with the MP1 and 80m coil is that you will have to take off the coil to work the other bands and each band change means a trip back to the antenna which is my main reason for getting the Chameleon MPAS 2.0, this Antenna works really well and I've made some crazy DX from Ireland to South America on 20m in the Summer of 2020. Not nearly as compact as the MP1 broken down but it takes 5 mins to set up, works up to 100 Watts SSB and I always make contacts on it too but it's not so good on 80m but no need to go back and forth to the antenna for each band change. I use the CAP HAT and just the single supplied Counterpoise, very impressed with the MPAS 2.0 and it included 75m of wire so you can use this for 80m and NVIS. Very versatile antenna. The MPAS 2.0 vertical is so good I decided to leave it setup permanently on the front lawn and use it with the 891 in the sitting room when I don't want to go to the shack, it makes a great SWL antenna too and it impressed me how quiet it is on receive. I will only take it down to work portable which is the exact opposite of what I intended it for but I was so impressed with it I had to leave it up permanently and use it a lot which justifies the money spent on it rather than have it to use it only a couple of times a year.
If compactness is ultra important, good performance and 100 watts then the Super Antenna MP1 is definitely well worth a look and it's extremely well built too, I would recommend an antenna analyser when tuning the Antenna. If Super Antenna could come up with a remote setup it would be fantastic.
I would love to try a loop someday.
All antennas work. It just depends on how much of the RF that you want to be radiated!
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures True, I don't think a Loop antenna would give me anything near the performance I get with the MPAS 2.0 still getting great DX with it.
Still using only the single supplied radial but I have the matching 4 radials on the way and I think I will try elevate them which I believe reduces the ground losses compared to many more radials on the ground.
The MPAS 2.0 certainly has impressed me for the last year.
My investigations of loop designs using a VNA suggest that some of the commonly illustrated pickup/TX elements do not work well and/or are extremely difficult to tune. More experiments are needed to come up with a really practical design.
I did, however make a good and clear contact using a loop tuned for 2m mounted on a Baofeng UV-9R first time out.
Aha! Seems I stayed up till 2am Pacific for a reason. Good video. I found mine to be a pain to use. Set up was ok, then I just sat there twisting knob and nobody could really hear me compared to a wire so I sold it. It was an expensive mistake, glad I got most of my money back.
Thanks. They do have their uses!
Richard Newstead yes true. However taking my money without much in return seemed to be my experience. Like you say, many videos are exaggerated. I fell for it a bit.
Excellent video I enjoy your radio adventure video's they are very informative and useful.
Thanks Alan
The magnetic loop attenuates unwanted and unneeded off frequency signals, it does not require a tree a pole or guy wires.
I like the off center fed dipole or long wire if a tree is available. I hate that I need to constantly tune the Magnetic loop if just doing hunt and pounce operation.
I may rethink this whole portable qrp thing and start operating QRO Portable operation with FULL LEGAL limit. 🙂
You said you might have to tune the antenna from CW to SSB on 20 meters, but if I tune the antenna on 14.225 will I have a low SWR at 13.500? Or will I have to retune? thx.
You will have to retune. The 2:1 swr bandwidth is only a few kHz.
User here with an OM0ET loop but I'm more of a listener than a talker. I'm surprised at the performance on SSB, especially during a contest.
Thank you Richard, very informative
My pleasure!
Hi Richard. In a previous life working for a government department we did some tests using magnetic loops, across the HF spectum. Some if the tests were on top of a flat roof building 100 feet up. Not as effective as at ground level on any frequency. Despite their compact size, and reasonably transportable, they may not behave well at height. Performance was much better at ground level. Interesting stuff. de EA8/G4CAZ
Interesting. Several Embassies use them on the roof.
Another great video. Your presentation and productions skills are exceptional.
I wonder if a loop like this would assist to reduce QRM at home, where 40m and 80m noise is often as high as S9. I would expect the overall signals received to be lower than say a dipole, but would the signal to noise ratio improve making reception possible?
Hard to say if it would help in your situation. Sorry!
You really should be tuning the loop whilst positioned on the 'null' side of the antenna to avoid your body coupling to it and detuning it because as you walk away from it, the VSWR will change again. Tune it from the NULL side.
The only reason Magloops are commonly restricted to QRP pwr levels is because of the economy of construction. The capacitor is the most expensive ingredient and the higher the voltage Air variable or Vacuum variable will raise the price sky high.
Construction resulting in the least resistance with a desireable amount of skin effect within an LC tuned circuit is the goal.
Swap ends of the capacitor and primary loop radiator. It works best to place the capacitor as far away from ground. Can't reach that high? - use a dc electric motor to tune remotely. You will need to anyway at QRO levels.
Good suggestion!
Thanks for video Richard. I am a SWL learning all the time. So if I ignore the TX side of things do the RX parts still stay the same.
Yes, exactly
Five years ago I used a Alexloop on 20/40 m with good result, using 5 w. Of course it's not a beam. Later I sold it. Alexloop are very expensive.
Last year I bought a new loop from LNR precisions a W4OP LOOP antenna. Expensive. Hard to tune and with not so good result.
I sold it and give a try to a new cheap OM0ET loop. Same result as the W4OP. I believe it’s impossible to compare loops few years ago with loops last year, depending the bad conds for the moment.
Alexloop has a new tuning equipment, sold by Martin&Lynch, not cheap.
SM7RYR
Commercial loops are not cheap. The capacitors are expensive.
@EA3BV - O cause, very expensive, specially if you consider the price of a peace of coax and and the eBay cap that this loop use.... But, they say that there is a "build in secret" that make it worth.... May be? No way, that's a sales trick.... ;-) With a vertical pole antenna and a feedpoint ATU you are able to cover all bands, good TX gain and the setup is done eaven faster.
OM0ET loops are over $300. Not cheap.
I use a Ciro Mazzoni Midi loop, Its a great antenna!
As I wrote my loops in the 80s were welded and just like the Mazoni loop it makes a huge difference in efficiency. The smallest ohmic resistance will quickly decrease the efficiency.
Yes - attention to detail is necessary for the best results.
I considered a magnetic loop, in my location huge antenna's are a definite no, no. nosey neighbour with to much time on their hands syndrome, so I'll keep looking for a portable type where I can put it up and take it down as and when.
There are many options!
It’s easy enough to make one yourself. Heaps of plans online, use copper pipe for a fixed antenna and coax for a variable one. Second hand variable caps are cheap at hamfests or on eBay. Surprised Richard doesn’t sell a diy loop makers kit... 73 VK4QP.
It’s not easy to make a good one. But like most antennas, they all work to some extent.
thank for this great video. I have a Wonderwand Wonderloop, it's a totaly crap antenna. Reverse beacon no see me when a make a CQ.
No "Wonder" then!
I have a loop antenna but as yet I have not used it. I'm not sure what to do with it. I have no idea of power handling. RX or TX, Which band it can be used for. It is old and aluminium with a huge cylinder, (capacitor) I guess.
Sounds like a commercial loop. Probably rated at 100 Watts. Maybe a Capco product.
As a listener only I tried several RX loops and found it hard to even detect their existence so for TX now I'm very wary. There is a huge variation in prices for loops which appear to be pretty much the same technically so what can I expect for my money? Are the expensive ones really much better than the cheap ones? I do get the impression that some bands are more favoured but is this not just down to loop diameter? I have the same doubts about hamsticks. Problem is that i really need to use something like these for portability where there are no trees for a dipole hanging. Whats the experience of ground loops for 40m end?
They work surprising well for what they are.
You can't expect a loop made from coax to be much use. Properly made loops are excellent.
Loops made from coax are certainly not the best but nonetheless they can be useful in some situations.
Boy I found that out the hard way. Made one with lnr 400 and it’s like trying to tune a rubber tire lol
I made one out of copper tubing (both outer and inner loops), the outer being 83cm in diameter. The maximum send power is really dictated by the capacitor. When it starts to arc, a capacitor with higher voltage rating is needed.
If I did get a loop, it would only be used in the back garden as I dont have the space for a dipole.. As for portable work I'd stick with a dipole
Do what works best for you!
So far I build two MLA and I tell you is not my every day antenna for sure due to unpredictable results.
Please If you have the opportunity to make an overview video on the transceiver SW-3B. DE R5CX 73
I will. I just have not got round to it yet.
Thank you very much for your answer! I ll keep an eye on the new videos. very interesting SW-3B
Richard, thank you for a well thought-out and thoughtfully edited video. I would take issue with a few of the generalizations. A loop made of soft copper refrigeration tubing, optimization of losses, and larger diameter for both the loop and its tubing can bring a loop within an S-unit of a dipole 10 meters high on 40m. I'm not sure why they've become so popular with the SOTA crowd, where power is usually compromised, too. My application is an attic antenna to avoid my antenna restrictions, and my initial tests indicate it will be very close to a dipole on 40m if both are indoors. Also, I think you'd agree that low sunspot activity is not just a problem for loops! That one was a head-scratcher! 73 - Paul, AE4KR
How do you find tuning your loop cap whilst keeping it in the attic? I have visions of climbing a ladder every few minutes if i did that. Do you have a way of tuning remotely?
I use a loop portable on 40 and 80 regularly however they don't work well mounted low mine is 20 meters high mounted horizontally normal reports 5 by 9 every time and that omnidirectional the loop is a wonderfull preselector, loop home Hebrew with a cap from otto Schubert gmbh in Germany when I drive the motor relies g the relay shorts the motor so giving immediate brick wall stop of the shaft
Relatively few portable operators could mount a 40/80m loop 20m high. How do you manage that?
Ah, I wish I had access to the top of a roof of a building ;-)
Loops are good for beach HF operations. They are not too great for SSB and I don’t do CW so I’m building a portable digital solutions for the beach. PS if I have room I will use a good vertical or dipole depending on the band.
I can see that a loop would be perfect on a busy beach.
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures People would look a bit weird at you, I suspect ;-) "Is he trying to irradiate us with that thing?"
what did you use to mount the antenna to the tripod?
I had a selfie stick with a camera mount on that attached to the tripod. The tube of the loop slipped over that nicely.
Hi Richard, is that my old AlexLoop I sold you? Your conclusions appear to be similar to mine - I had success (even indoors) with WSPR but not SSB outdoors for example. 73, David M0VGA
Yes - same loop!
Hi. Richard first thing first I like your channel alot, and this was a good informative video...I ve homebrewed a loop, and I m quite happy with it..farthest contact i had with it on SSB was around 4000 km using 25 watts...so what i think loops are good at slightly higher power levels i.e 20 to 30 watts...so thats just my simple opinion with experience. Thanx
Thanks. Of course many loops are only rated at low power levels!
@@g3cwi_Radio_Adventures This actually depends on the voltage rating of the capacitor that is used. The higher the rating, the higher power you can use.
It's not just me who uses takeaway boxes to store parts then :D
They are handy!
Yeah loops are for good solar maximum conditions... They are about to return soon
The Chinese MLA-30 seems to be a cheap way to get into loops.
rx only
The MLA 30+ is better.
73 kolego 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱
Richard,
I am afraid I disagree with your conclusions, entirely.
Out of all the objectionable statements I find in your video, this is the biggest: "be cautions when viewing youtube videos showing great results on SSB with people using loops, look at when they were posted, as loop performance varies over an approximate 11 years cycle".
An 11 years cycle loop performance?!? I thought that was the solar cycle. Besides, how many great SSB/portable/loop videos could you possibly find from so many years ago? Could you link one? (I am genuinely curious).
In any event, dxing on SSB is the norm with magnetic loops. And I mean now, not at the peak of a solar cycle. When propagation (and spare time!) allows, I take the loop out and I DX *every single time*. Sometimes I upload videos to youtube, please check them out. Rest assured: they are not from 1981. You might also want to check vk3ye's videos (they are A LOT better than mine, of course). He often makes the US from Australia using his loop.
Best Regards
Alain K1FM
Thanks for sharing your opinions.
I found Richard made some generalisations which aren't necessarily warranted. Lots of parameters depend on materials used, rating of the capacitor, etc... And as he found out, operating on lower frequencies requires larger loops (or loops with multiple turns) to keep the same efficiency. Just like you can't work the 80m band with a one-meter long dipole, you can't expect a magloop with one meter diameter to work there.
"Any good?"
Yes.
I do SSB only for now, so no loop for me. Lot of cash and many so they work poorly. No thanks.
instead alex loop try the boris loop hahaha
Guaranteed not to work very well.
Good work , PY1LHL LEO
Visit my channel , have a magloop. 73