after completing the final mission when you walk around mother base the npc soldiers say things like "I don't care who you are boss, I'll still follow you!"
Reuben Well things could still have played out from His perspective and you would still not know until the last scene. It would also be more exciting because you would be wondering what happens to Him as you play.
An interesting fact, the version of "The Man Who Sold The World," we hear in the game is actually Midge Ure's cover of the David Bowie original. In the same sense, Venom is literally a 'cover' for Big Boss.
Kojima actually wanted David Bowie's original song in the game but for whatever reasons (most likely copyright, maybe '60s song in an '80s setting, idk) it never happened.
The song "The Man who sold the World" is about someone meeting their doppelganger. In the intro we do not hear the original version by David Bowie but the cover Version from Midge Ure. THAT was the first clue
Yeah. The twist never once felt like a twist. Even during the lead up to the release, people already figured it out. So the question I'm left with is "What's the real twist then?" We'll probably never know because the game will never be complete. Unless there's a secret hidden within the msx "operation intrude" scene at the end of the game. But that apparently requires decoding what sounds like dial-up internet noise.
What makes this twist pretty great is how little they had to change for it to be a reveal. They told you 90% of it the first time. I had to go back and replay the prologue to see if Ishmael really said "you've been talking to yourself" and if they actually showed that much of Quiet's face the first time. I was particularly surprised to see they used Quiet's humming in the prologue. I thought for sure that had to be new.
He became a demon, by accepting that he is Big Boss, one of the main villains of the franchise. The player wants to become like the man in the video game, despite how bad he is. He looks in the mirror and sees how bloody and awful it is to be Big Boss, then smashes it. The player ignores how awful Big Boss is, and chooses to see a reflection better suited to his worldview. Venom Snake is a man who accepts the lie of Big Boss, which is why he's secretly the player all along.
They are both villains both men misinterpreted the Boss's will and tore the world apart. Big Boss talks about this in MGS4. He regrets doing the things he did.
Me never having played Peace Walker actually perfectly fits the narrative. Cause just like the Boss's doubleganger i also can't remember any of those past events
"Don't take too long getting used to your new self." ! Honestly, imagine how much of a mindfuck it would have been if the real Snake didn't speak during the hospital escape, and during The Truth, it turns out he was voiced by Hayter.
What i really wanted to see with the ending of MGSV was Kojima making the mindfuck of getting rid of Hayter. Then at the end of the MGSV story or the final dlc see. Big boss giving a briefing to a solider whos face you cant really see... then to have it zoom in and to be SOLID snake with HAYTER as voice actor. Right before hes deployed off to the first metal gear. Holy shit that would be a ending for the ages.
crazybongo5 yeah, nothing better than an obvious and predictable ending, Kojima would be stupid if he tried to surprise people with something unexpected. You should be a konami rep.
crazybongo5 and I responded with my opinion. You may be projecting if your self esteem is so low that you can't handle someone not liking your annoyingly bland idea.
I was Chico. Remember in Ground Zeroes when you break in to rescue him and start choking him? 13:39 Also, in a tape in Ground Zeroes, Paz tells Chico to, "...be Quiet."
I like how Ocelot could go get Big Boss at 2am, grab Venom at 3am, sail a ship with him but go back to the same spot again to meet Big Boss at 6am. That's some time travelling.
When I played the game when it released , I thought Ishmael was kaz. Since you know , after Ishmael suddenly going missing.Then you go with ocelot to a 10 day trip. Then ocelot tell you miller was kidnapped by a soviet camp ten days ago. Kojima is a genius.
You know what is really sad about this. Venom did a similar mission like The Boss, where her mission was to simply complete it. There was no glory or admiration to be held about it. They both did their duty. It is ironic, because Venom was used just like The Boss. Ironic, that Big Boss would go along with that considering how much it was painful to see The Boss go through it herself. I would like to think Venom and The Boss would have got along, even with the whole Outer Heaven thing. He was just doing his mission. Btw if you focus on the nurse throughout the time the doctor is explaining the situation to Ahab, you can see her distraught the closer he gets to the topic of losing a hand. Felt bad for her too. Lot of cool hidden details.
Well this after Peace Walker, and in the end of Peace Walker he felt rather betrayed by The Boss so maybe he just didn't think about it that way because he was still rather just thinking about the "betrayal" she'd basically played on him and he didn't think much about it at the time. Not saying The Boss betrayed him, but just John had seen it that way because she expected him to act as a soldier and always carry out his duty when in Peace Walker her mamal pod did not, so I guess he saw instead of carrying out her mission was a sign of betrayal of her moral code she'd told him ig.
Kale Chips Big Boss didn’t feel like he had much choice in going along with any of it, it was the brain child of Zero and Ocelot. He just knew the world would be better off with him alive than dead.
@@CaptBirdy It was more the betrayal by Zero and Sigint and Paramedic that caused him to leave The Patriots, because they proceeded with the "Les Enfant Terrible" project which pissed Big Boss off because all three including EVA who carried both Eli and David as twins (hence the name on the Gamecube version of MGS1 - Twin Snakes) but George wasn't carried by EVA, he was a true clone of Big Boss. This is where Big Boss leaves The Patriots and forms his "Militaires Sans Frontières" to go about what The Boss wanted whereas The Patriots minus EVA after giving birth to Eli and David had became disillusioned and put the Patriots AI in place in their twisted way of trying to achieve what The Boss wanted. Don't forget, that the events of Metal Gear Solid 1 to 4, Revolver Ocelot becomes also disillusioned by The Boss's ideologies and thus in Guns of the Patriots, sets out to make war a commodity and that war must happen all the time as soldiers wouldn't have anything else to do.
You know what the saddest thing is? This episode is the most you hear Keith Sutherlands characters talk in this game. Most of his lines are responses and kept short, he doesn't talk nearly as much as Solid and even Naked Snake, so you don't get much of a feel for Ahab or Ishmael's personality in the game.
From a certain angle, the lack of voice lines makes sense. Venom Snake is, unlike other MGS protagonists, the blank canvas you paint on. Venom is you, and you define your personality (within the game's limitations). Big Boss/Naked Snake, Solid Snake and Raiden are all largely defined as personalities and characters, but Venom Snake isn't because you are Venom Snake. Giving him too much of a defined personality would have eliminated that part you inject into him. On the other hand, I do agree that it is a shame. I am in the minority who actually liked Sutherland's voice for BB/VS. In my headcanon, that is the voice of Big Boss, while Hayter is the voice of Solid Snake.
When Ishmael said the line about Digoxin, he was talking to us the gamer. At that point in the cutscene/game we're thinking and questioning the information being given to us. The 9 years coma, amputated arm, the shrapnel on BB's head that isn't there by the time of MGS4, and the fact of why we needed to make an avatar, but just before we can formulate a hypothesis we are distracted by the fight with the assassin Quiet. Then Ahab, us players, is given Digoxin to "get back into the game" just as we're finally given full control to actually begin playing the game. We were injected back into the game before we can even process the information, and questions we had, just as Ahab was forced into getting "back into his game" of being BB. 4 years later and there's still tiny tidbits of this game that can be analyzed.
I thought that the nanomachines and whatever else repaired Big Boss after he was defeated by Solid Snake was the reason to why we didn't see him with the MGS5 injuries. And the Avatar was used for multiplayer, so that's another thing.
@@jefferyshaw3990 I know. I was talking about after Metal Gear (not solid) 1 and 2. 5 would retcon that , and I thought everything else that happened to Venom Snake would be changed for that
Sir BigWater There’s some pretty extensive videos here on TH-cam that explain the whole storyline in it’s entirety decently well. You should take a look at a few of them. For the most part by the end of this game it’s pretty straightforward how they plugged this installment into the rest of the series.
Why do people's first instinct when they're on fire is to jump out of a window? Eating cement at Terminal Velocity is not gonna solve your burning issue
Shout out to Kojima for actually using Cyprus in the game and actually using 100% Cypriot actors for the voice-overs. The biggest surprise I ever got while gaming!!
I never understood the "he used a COVER so it's foreshadowing" statement until I realized that the protagonist has been under for so long, he doesn't know it's a cover.
Nice detail, Venom is remembering the scenes at that place and now you got translators for Diamond Dogs he knows what the medic and nurse talked at 9:00
I don't think its because of the translators. I am pretty sure its just that its meant to reveal the truth so they showed it. They are speaking Greek and there are only four interpreters none of which speak that.
Do you think it's theoretically possible that Venom Snake may be the only person who knows Greek? It'd be a nice twist to the character honestly. Him losing his native tongue and not being able to speak Greek anymore after becoming Big Boss, that fits well into the game's story.
possibly, Greek, along with Latin, is the primary language of Medicine. Venom was a Physician, before he was Big Boss. However, as a physician myself, the only Greek I know is limited to medical and scientific nomenclature. so, who can say...this was a different era.
"A certain man gave me a job to do. Two, actually. The first was to get you out of that hospital, and second to save the man himself". Hah, dropping big hints right from the start.
The line "on your feet soldier" after injecting digoxin, ishmael to ahab already convinced me that big boss is the one who is escorting the medic (venom snake).
I guess one of the reason why they change from hayter to sutherland is because we already very familiar with his voice. If they stick to hayter, we will know right of the bat that Ishmael is BB. But Kiefer voice it very well that we thought Ishmael and venom are voiced by 2 different people with similar tone
It would've been a nice touch to bring Hayter in at the end, when the twist happens. Like in the prologue it's Sutherland's voice, but in The Truth, it's Hayter's voice. That would've been nice.
Kojima simply gave the player the greatest gift he could. He made the player himself the main character in the whole series. Always nice to see that. Big thx to him!
The thing I hate about this twist: It literally just shows up in your IDroid nonchalantly after you complete specific requirements. You telling me Venom Snake just suddenly remembered this all of a sudden?
Its connected to Ocelot saying Huey will see through the lies hes built up and stop running from the truth. But honestly it just shouod have been connected to the Paz side Quest.
Dude's got a massive lump of metal lodged in his brain, of course he's going to hallucinate something like "The Truth" just appearing as a mission on his iDroid
Did y’all peep he wasn’t just talking to Venom but also the player when he said you’re Big Boss too, and that the statement about the legend was for us keeping Metal Gear alive for it to get here.
I could not accept what happened at the end. This was one of the first games that ever entirely shocked me in the end, like I was just floored. This game is absolutely stunning with visuals, storytelling, and gameplay. Big Boss left his mark
Yes, the poit of that scene is that at some point Big Boss and Venom decided to to gor operation Intruder, but Solid Snake didn't stop earlier as planned. I think the gunshots you hear is Snake making his way in Outer Heaven. Knowing that Big Boss still needs time for his plan in Zanzibar to work, and out of loyalty towards Big Boss, Venom Snake listens to the tape once again and confronts Solid, getting himself killed just so he can buy more time for Bog Boss.
12:27 When Quiet is talking about the patient in the next bed. Is she talking about Venom? She could know Venom is only a copy if she overheard the doctor talking.
@@fakename2553 Thats right. Must've meant she wanted to kill Ishmael, I don't see any other reason as to why she went to kill Venom first after she said that. Very odd.
@@Killzone-cr2od that's definitely not the case. He still does the voice on Cameo and at public events, and stated that Kojima's been trying to replace him since MGS3. Hayter loves the character.
Poor Venom being sold...Snake oil. Big Boss bsing him on how they are one and the build the story together. Ocelot clearly saying they're building the real Outer Haven while Venom distracts the world with the fake one. Venom seemed so proud and happy of his role when listening to the tape but when the time skips to before right before his fight with Solid Snake he realized it was all a lie and broke the mirror in anger. As Miller said in Metal Gear 2, "Snake, that guy is a monster."
He didn't break the mirror in anger. He broke the mirror as symbolism that they are BOTH Big Boss - Venom Snake is the "Phantom Pain" and Big Boss is the "real" Big Boss. Notice when he's listening to Big Boss via the cassette that he gets "From The Man Who Sold The World", Big Boss says that they are both Big Boss and when he puts the tape into the recorder to the computer (MSX reference), it has "Operation Intrude N313" on it and it changes to before the events of Metal Gear as we see that the "Diamond Dogs" logo has changed to "Outer Haven" and walks off into the blackness knowing he has to keep up the persona of Big Boss and thus dies fighting Solid Snake.
it could be that "the truth" is not actually what happened. the first quote said that specifically. The scene is just what Venom interpreted. He imagined it was that guy Ishmael who's the big boss. That's also why he sounds just like V, because it's V interpretation.
So up until the music crackles and shifts from us hearing it to us hearing it come out of the radio or whatever, was that supposed to mean Venom had headphones on and the song was part of his brainwashing to become big boss?
Hayter voiced Solid Snake and The Boss. This one was Big Boss and Venom. I think Kojima wanted to spare Hayter from what he knew was going to be a failing franchise. This game was so incredibly disjointed and saw a lot of internal discord throughout its development. That's why each mission has credits.. to tell you who worked on it. It really didn't do anything for the story overall. At this point, Metal Gear's name was turned into profit. A decent game... sort of. But not really what you come to expect from a major Metal Gear title.
@@sethtallman7281 Kojima said he got a different VA for reasons that he wanted Snake in TPP to have more ways to capture emotion than just speech. A shame that they didn't at least get Hayter to voice the real Big Boss in the Truth cassette tapes and the Truth mission.
I played the entire game tranquillising everyone, only killing when i absolutely had to. After watching this at the end i started killing everyone who wasn’t S rank or higher
There's a track in Infamous Second Son called Smoke and Mirrors, Troy Baker voices Delsin Rowe, Hideo initially used Sucker Punche's infamous engine to test out Death Stranding... And you know who else was in Death Stranding? Troy Baker. What if you're a spy? Or I am? The Trolljima never ends sheeple
Did you ever wore that king of gasmask? It blocks more than 75% of your view and blurry, he needed to look straight at him to see him, he can't see left or right
Ah...at around 7 mins, the doctor is telling him bout fragments of human bone/teeth still inside of him in his skull and near his heart...Then remembering recently hearing the recording of Paz saying something like, "even though she is gone, she will always remain with him in his memories and in his heart" (literally) - Do'h!!! So...after plenty of time and consideration, with more and more things such as that coming to light and/or being realised...I think this actually did end up being a really good (and complete) game after all; I didn't like it that much at first but it's grown on me a lot.
In Budism there are 108 defilements of body that need to be cleared towards the path to enlightenment or something like that... Venom has 108 fragments in him.. this game is a deep water.
Big Boss only enters into one coma and that's in 1999 after Solid Snake defeats him at Zanzibar. Dr. Clark put him in a coma. He then wakes up in 2014. Zero visits him but it's not in 1977, it's actually in 2001. Venom is brainwashed and programmed into Big Boss in the 80's. Solid Snake defeats Venom in 1995 and blows Venom up. As Venom lay dying, he's drifting in and out of hypnogogic sleep. He thinks its 1984 and relives his experiences as Big Boss. This is what the player experiences. That's the game. Venom's programming, memory, and brain damage from the Nato bombing at Outer Heaven blur Venom's perception. As Ocelot says, Venom died for Big Boss and is on a journey to Hell. Venom's subconscious tries to tell him this through hallucinating Paz. Paz too thinks its a different time, 1975. She ignores whatever doesn't fit her internal timeline. Venom is blocking out fighting Solid Snake and being blown up because it's too traumatic and the brain damage he suffered has altered his personality. He was programmed as Big Boss to begin with so as his personality begins to break apart due to trauma pieces of his identity as Medic comes through periodically. That's why sometimes he looks in the mirror and sees Big Boss and other times he sees himself. The shrapnel in his body is from Solid Snake blowing him to shit. In truth Venom is without limbs and periodically feels pain in them. This pain is probably reframed in his mind as the memories of fighting. Just like dipping someone's hand in water and having them urinate as they sleep. Venom's experience is solely in his mind. His body, movements, hallucinations, and even fantasies are only in his mind. Just as he feels pain from limbs that aren't there, so too he experiences the shock, horror, and trauma from a life he never lived. That's the true phantom pain.
For all this games fault, I still love it. All the the subtleties, quotes, music, action quirks, and just everything else make this game perfect to me.
Oh my god The "This is you as youve lived till this day" scene in the second version, you see everything, but you only see it the second time in the first verison
Is it normal that everythings seem a little more bright colorless? In ocelots missionbriefing last tape snake says something about right after waking up the colours were "fadet"....
To the point that originally it was supposed to be some what of a plot point. The scrapped mission where you get back Sahelanthropus from Eli has an ending that has you shoot Eli because a bump to the shrapnel in your head means you are no longer able to distinguish a red hazmat suit from a white one (they both look white).
@Dmitry TKR "Well, he's stabilized but he took too long, he's in a coma": Mission 50 The Truth. "No point waking up after 9 years for that" Big Boss, Truth Tapes. Zero also mentions Big Boss's coma.
Kojima really just added bonus footage to the opening mission which exposed the truth, only to be like 'hahaaa you guys are idiots if you didn't see this twist coming'
I keep thinking back to the ending and I try to remember what made me accept "Okay, now model an avatar to your liking, anyway, don't worry about it for the rest of the game, you actually are Big Boss ;) ;) ;)" because the whole thing was just so strange then and in hindsight. How did Kojimbo get away with this
i dont know...when i was replaying the mission 1...when Quiet point a gun on me.. the Screen change black and i can hear Quiet song.. just like quiet always did.. and then she already stand on the corner of room waiting get throwing a bottle of alcohol by Big Boss..
There is a part of me that the XOF strike force was actually a False Flag Assault by using Diamond Dogs with Troublemaker Stats in order to 1.) Get BB and Venom out of the hospital 2.) Kill everyone who knows about Big Boss and Venom staying in Dhekelia and destroying files as well. However they met their unexpected fate when Volgin and Tretij Rebenok showed themselves and started burning the place. If that would be true, then that is something Big Boss would really do, post- Mother Base
Correct. Up until now Big Boss had his reasons for what he was doing. He was morally questionable but well-meaning in Peace Walker, but here is where we see him finally become a villain.
@@TheCh33ks Its all about perspective. Remember there is no place for heroes. Solid Snake ended up being just a puppet of Zero and the patriots to kill big boss so that Zero's vision of the world would be the one to come out on top.
after completing the final mission when you walk around mother base the npc soldiers say things like "I don't care who you are boss, I'll still follow you!"
HE is the real seymour skinner, I mean big boss
Oh?
@@rafaelaguilar2950 Venom "Punished" Skinner
@@rafaelaguilar2950 They just Cart the real Big boss away LOL
they say it regardless, its just kinda rare
Go to 10:00, 11:07, 38:02, and 45:28 to see when stuff actually changes substantially if you don't want to watch everything.
Saved my time watching thanks
Thx alot
Gods work
Thanks a lot
you're pretty good
Think this mission would have done the full circle theming better, if you played as Ishmael the second time around and had to do all the leg work.
@@kingofbears6999 That would ruin the plot twist then horrendous idea
@@ReubenSempleJones Snake! What have you done! You created a time paradox!
Reuben Well things could still have played out from His perspective and you would still not know until the last scene. It would also be more exciting because you would be wondering what happens to Him as you play.
@@delduvall The guy I was replying to deleted his comment. He said to play that mission in Ground Zeroes or something like that
Gah! Crab Broke my Knife!
I forgot the intro in the bed is like 8 million hours long.
It rlly is tho
I actually skipped the cutscenes at the beginning cause thought if was just a replay 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
I refund the game just for that
mood setter
That's like 913 years lol.
The problem for me was I made my avatar look like Old Snake and I didn't get the ending at first...
MadNut321 lol
Same,I was freaking out "omg his name is actually 'mastermind'.Wow its the same as my username, what does this mean?"
MadNut321 I completely forgot I named my character "memes" and laughed my ass off when I saw memes on the back of the picture. I was super confused
@@alec4025 Haha I didn't know that, hilarious though
SickBangerzM9 i named mine pee pee poo poo man
An interesting fact, the version of "The Man Who Sold The World," we hear in the game is actually Midge Ure's cover of the David Bowie original. In the same sense, Venom is literally a 'cover' for Big Boss.
Isn’t it midge ure? Who is bob iger 🗿
@@tshnow6619 woops, been researching Disney recently and got names jumbled in my head. Bob Iger was the executive chairman for disney.
And both covers were better than the originals. 💪🏻
@@timothylove9724 LMAOOOOOOO THAT'S HILARIOUS
Kojima actually wanted David Bowie's original song in the game but for whatever reasons (most likely copyright, maybe '60s song in an '80s setting, idk) it never happened.
"You're talking to yourselve."
They were telling us since the beggining.
They played us like a damn fiddle!
The song "The Man who sold the World" is about someone meeting their doppelganger. In the intro we do not hear the original version by David Bowie but the cover Version from Midge Ure. THAT was the first clue
Yeah. The twist never once felt like a twist. Even during the lead up to the release, people already figured it out.
So the question I'm left with is "What's the real twist then?"
We'll probably never know because the game will never be complete.
Unless there's a secret hidden within the msx "operation intrude" scene at the end of the game. But that apparently requires decoding what sounds like dial-up internet noise.
i think they go what does that mean i saw it on a video
but i cant remember it
Dave Marx Sounds like a modem starting up.
Ishmael: *Fixes Ahab's arm* Next time do it yourself.
Ahab: *Stares in Amputee*
What makes this twist pretty great is how little they had to change for it to be a reveal. They told you 90% of it the first time. I had to go back and replay the prologue to see if Ishmael really said "you've been talking to yourself" and if they actually showed that much of Quiet's face the first time. I was particularly surprised to see they used Quiet's humming in the prologue. I thought for sure that had to be new.
Doc: We must alter you appearance immediately
Me: //Proceeds to alter appearance to look like the doctor
Doctor: V...Very good
😂
He became a demon, by accepting that he is Big Boss, one of the main villains of the franchise. The player wants to become like the man in the video game, despite how bad he is. He looks in the mirror and sees how bloody and awful it is to be Big Boss, then smashes it. The player ignores how awful Big Boss is, and chooses to see a reflection better suited to his worldview. Venom Snake is a man who accepts the lie of Big Boss, which is why he's secretly the player all along.
They are both villains both men misinterpreted the Boss's will and tore the world apart. Big Boss talks about this in MGS4. He regrets doing the things he did.
literally
We're Big Boss
Nah, big boss is the real hero, always have been and always will be, it is all patriots propaganda
I always loved how @11:13 he could reach and grab the photos but couldn't tap the doc and point to the nurse being strangled and carried off lol.
Me never having played Peace Walker actually perfectly fits the narrative. Cause just like the Boss's doubleganger i also can't remember any of those past events
A true MGSV fan moment
Doppleganger*
Same 😂😂😂
"Don't take too long getting used to your new self."
!
Honestly, imagine how much of a mindfuck it would have been if the real Snake didn't speak during the hospital escape, and during The Truth, it turns out he was voiced by Hayter.
What i really wanted to see with the ending of MGSV was Kojima making the mindfuck of getting rid of Hayter.
Then at the end of the MGSV story or the final dlc see. Big boss giving a briefing to a solider whos face you cant really see... then to have it zoom in and to be SOLID snake with HAYTER as voice actor. Right before hes deployed off to the first metal gear.
Holy shit that would be a ending for the ages.
except it isn't hayter in ground zeroes, so that would be kind of dumb.
crazybongo5 yeah, nothing better than an obvious and predictable ending, Kojima would be stupid if he tried to surprise people with something unexpected.
You should be a konami rep.
crazybongo5 and I responded with my opinion. You may be projecting if your self esteem is so low that you can't handle someone not liking your annoyingly bland idea.
Honestly would've been more epic.
Finally a comparison, I love it, you're pretty good
Welcome Back Boss!
Pretty..good..
You really kept us waiting, boss
We been played like a damn fiddle!
I don't know what came over me boss... I hid some diamonds around here.
How I never realized it was Quiet in the prologue after meeting and playing with her, is completely beyond me.
Different hairstyle and costume can make women look vastly different
We where clouded by "omg in playing MGSV" for the first time to notice it
The same happened to me
Damn don’t know since I know im on chapter 2 but don’t know the mission number
Bro how did you not notice it she even have the xof outfit
I was Chico.
Remember in Ground Zeroes when you break in to rescue him and start choking him?
13:39
Also, in a tape in Ground Zeroes, Paz tells Chico to, "...be Quiet."
I like how Ocelot could go get Big Boss at 2am, grab Venom at 3am, sail a ship with him but go back to the same spot again to meet Big Boss at 6am. That's some time travelling.
that all happened the same day? hmn
i don't think he take Venom to the ship first before meeting with BB, after that Ocelot came back to the ship to sail
sonicadv27
He just took him to the ship, it didn’t sail till the morning.
@@Alex_Logan22 he explicitly said "we sail"
@@sonicadv27
But not "right now"
Man who trolled the world more like.
You know what, you’re not even wrong. This isn’t the first or last time Big Boss trolled the world
but that's what it means to sell the world that is what the song is about he sold the world on being someone else.
hhahaha exactly
"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations"
This hits hard when you finish the Paz side mission
That was actually what i considered as my "true ending"... probably the whole TPP didn't happen ?
42:20 a certain man gave me two jobs:
- the first was to get you out of that hospital
-the second... was to rescue the man himself
that spoiler bro...
troloinkto he then goes on to mention Kaz. So you think Ocelot meant to rescue him.
Its a cleverly disguised spoiler
@@ElTyloon yea literaly just played through this first mission again on my 2nd playthrough and finally heard that line
When I played the game when it released , I thought Ishmael was kaz. Since you know , after Ishmael suddenly going missing.Then you go with ocelot to a 10 day trip. Then ocelot tell you miller was kidnapped by a soviet camp ten days ago. Kojima is a genius.
@@VengefulSoul. How the fuck could you think that? Clearly it's Keifer's voice on both Ishmael and Ahab. The hell is wrong with you?
You know what is really sad about this. Venom did a similar mission like The Boss, where her mission was to simply complete it. There was no glory or admiration to be held about it. They both did their duty. It is ironic, because Venom was used just like The Boss. Ironic, that Big Boss would go along with that considering how much it was painful to see The Boss go through it herself. I would like to think Venom and The Boss would have got along, even with the whole Outer Heaven thing. He was just doing his mission. Btw if you focus on the nurse throughout the time the doctor is explaining the situation to Ahab, you can see her distraught the closer he gets to the topic of losing a hand. Felt bad for her too. Lot of cool hidden details.
Damn, I never thought about it from that perspective. I guess it just shows how much of a villain BB had turned into at that point.
Well this after Peace Walker, and in the end of Peace Walker he felt rather betrayed by The Boss so maybe he just didn't think about it that way because he was still rather just thinking about the "betrayal" she'd basically played on him and he didn't think much about it at the time.
Not saying The Boss betrayed him, but just John had seen it that way because she expected him to act as a soldier and always carry out his duty when in Peace Walker her mamal pod did not, so I guess he saw instead of carrying out her mission was a sign of betrayal of her moral code she'd told him ig.
Exept The Boss actually kind of, at some point had a choice
Decisions to be done, system to be seen
Kale Chips
Big Boss didn’t feel like he had much choice in going along with any of it, it was the brain child of Zero and Ocelot. He just knew the world would be better off with him alive than dead.
@@CaptBirdy It was more the betrayal by Zero and Sigint and Paramedic that caused him to leave The Patriots, because they proceeded with the "Les Enfant Terrible" project which pissed Big Boss off because all three including EVA who carried both Eli and David as twins (hence the name on the Gamecube version of MGS1 - Twin Snakes) but George wasn't carried by EVA, he was a true clone of Big Boss.
This is where Big Boss leaves The Patriots and forms his "Militaires Sans Frontières" to go about what The Boss wanted whereas The Patriots minus EVA after giving birth to Eli and David had became disillusioned and put the Patriots AI in place in their twisted way of trying to achieve what The Boss wanted.
Don't forget, that the events of Metal Gear Solid 1 to 4, Revolver Ocelot becomes also disillusioned by The Boss's ideologies and thus in Guns of the Patriots, sets out to make war a commodity and that war must happen all the time as soldiers wouldn't have anything else to do.
You know what the saddest thing is? This episode is the most you hear Keith Sutherlands characters talk in this game. Most of his lines are responses and kept short, he doesn't talk nearly as much as Solid and even Naked Snake, so you don't get much of a feel for Ahab or Ishmael's personality in the game.
From a certain angle, the lack of voice lines makes sense. Venom Snake is, unlike other MGS protagonists, the blank canvas you paint on. Venom is you, and you define your personality (within the game's limitations).
Big Boss/Naked Snake, Solid Snake and Raiden are all largely defined as personalities and characters, but Venom Snake isn't because you are Venom Snake. Giving him too much of a defined personality would have eliminated that part you inject into him.
On the other hand, I do agree that it is a shame. I am in the minority who actually liked Sutherland's voice for BB/VS. In my headcanon, that is the voice of Big Boss, while Hayter is the voice of Solid Snake.
"We'll meet again" "Right" Then they never met again until death....
Ocelot: "Well that was a big fucking lie."
Where did ocelot died? And is liquid eli? Or is he ocelot? Im confused.
@@mazytrash MGS4
@@mxylrblackmesadeathmatchtv6178 then where is eli?
@@mazytrash Eli, also called "liquid", died in MGS1
When Ishmael said the line about Digoxin, he was talking to us the gamer. At that point in the cutscene/game we're thinking and questioning the information being given to us. The 9 years coma, amputated arm, the shrapnel on BB's head that isn't there by the time of MGS4, and the fact of why we needed to make an avatar, but just before we can formulate a hypothesis we are distracted by the fight with the assassin Quiet. Then Ahab, us players, is given Digoxin to "get back into the game" just as we're finally given full control to actually begin playing the game. We were injected back into the game before we can even process the information, and questions we had, just as Ahab was forced into getting "back into his game" of being BB. 4 years later and there's still tiny tidbits of this game that can be analyzed.
I thought that the nanomachines and whatever else repaired Big Boss after he was defeated by Solid Snake was the reason to why we didn't see him with the MGS5 injuries.
And the Avatar was used for multiplayer, so that's another thing.
@@SirBigWater 5 is sort of a prequel sequel, it happens after peace Walker but before the other games (excluding snake eater)
@@jefferyshaw3990 I know. I was talking about after Metal Gear (not solid) 1 and 2. 5 would retcon that , and I thought everything else that happened to Venom Snake would be changed for that
Sir BigWater There’s some pretty extensive videos here on TH-cam that explain the whole storyline in it’s entirety decently well. You should take a look at a few of them. For the most part by the end of this game it’s pretty straightforward how they plugged this installment into the rest of the series.
@@boctorbepperj35 I know. I've seen alot of them back when the game came out
This game played us like a Dame fiddle
Why do people's first instinct when they're on fire is to jump out of a window? Eating cement at Terminal Velocity is not gonna solve your burning issue
RP Productions it puts you out of your misery at least
it doesn't really work well when you're covered in flamable liquid
+RP Productions I mean she lived to get reconstructive surgery so she must've done something right.
MB well, ‘reconstructive’
Well jumping out of a window into the rain and catching a ledge may fix both issues
Shout out to Kojima for actually using Cyprus in the game and actually using 100% Cypriot actors for the voice-overs. The biggest surprise I ever got while gaming!!
Shout out to Kojima for actually Mentioning the Country Pakistan, as I never hear this underrated country anywhere, in any game
Shout out to Kojima for being a Director for MGSV and shout out to Kojima for being the Producer
All of this plan still blows my mind.
44:48 That foreshadowing...
Also "A certain man gave me a job to do, 2 actually..."
I never understood the "he used a COVER so it's foreshadowing" statement until I realized that the protagonist has been under for so long, he doesn't know it's a cover.
Nice detail, Venom is remembering the scenes at that place and now you got translators for Diamond Dogs he knows what the medic and nurse talked at 9:00
I don't think its because of the translators. I am pretty sure its just that its meant to reveal the truth so they showed it. They are speaking Greek and there are only four interpreters none of which speak that.
Woooosh
Do you think it's theoretically possible that Venom Snake may be the only person who knows Greek? It'd be a nice twist to the character honestly. Him losing his native tongue and not being able to speak Greek anymore after becoming Big Boss, that fits well into the game's story.
possibly, Greek, along with Latin, is the primary language of Medicine. Venom was a Physician, before he was Big Boss. However, as a physician myself, the only Greek I know is limited to medical and scientific nomenclature. so, who can say...this was a different era.
Rose-shrouded Confessor he isn't Greek though sooooo
"A certain man gave me a job to do. Two, actually. The first was to get you out of that hospital, and second to save the man himself".
Hah, dropping big hints right from the start.
So was I the only one who genuinely enjoyed the game? And yes, the ending cut by Konami was a dick move but other wise a great and fun game
Joonas Salminen
It's my favourite game of all time
It is a good game. The best of all Metal Gear Saga.
best game ever
Love the shit out or that freaking game man!
@@RealStevenStifler ah no,just no
What's sad about that saga is no one really hated each other but they still fight in a deathmatch.
Kind of like most wars
@@bruhski136 ww 2 is all about hate and revenge.
The line "on your feet soldier" after injecting digoxin, ishmael to ahab already convinced me that big boss is the one who is escorting the medic (venom snake).
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I’m big boss, and so are you
Music to my ears 😍
I guess one of the reason why they change from hayter to sutherland is because we already very familiar with his voice. If they stick to hayter, we will know right of the bat that Ishmael is BB. But Kiefer voice it very well that we thought Ishmael and venom are voiced by 2 different people with similar tone
It would've been a nice touch to bring Hayter in at the end, when the twist happens. Like in the prologue it's Sutherland's voice, but in The Truth, it's Hayter's voice. That would've been nice.
@@gamenut112 I agree, it would have been a really good addition
- Who am I? You talking to yourself.
Such a spoiler.
Yeah but at first we don't know who the fuck he is we know it in the ending.
@@Ryzen1 True, who would know Ishmael was actually Jack Bauer?
Kojima simply gave the player the greatest gift he could. He made the player himself the main character in the whole series.
Always nice to see that. Big thx to him!
5:35 HURRHURRRHURR HEHEEHEH HRURHR
I skipped to that part XD was SOOO worth it !! haha
So ded
Lol
Tony Hernandez 13:40 Quiet, no Wait!
N-nursaco-coma-a
The thing I hate about this twist: It literally just shows up in your IDroid nonchalantly after you complete specific requirements.
You telling me Venom Snake just suddenly remembered this all of a sudden?
Its connected to Ocelot saying Huey will see through the lies hes built up and stop running from the truth. But honestly it just shouod have been connected to the Paz side Quest.
Dude's got a massive lump of metal lodged in his brain, of course he's going to hallucinate something like "The Truth" just appearing as a mission on his iDroid
what being stranded in a sandstorm and bitten by a snake for 2 hours does to man with a piece of metal in his brain
Did y’all peep he wasn’t just talking to Venom but also the player when he said you’re Big Boss too, and that the statement about the legend was for us keeping Metal Gear alive for it to get here.
The best part is it takes an hour to play the prologue, and I've gone through both the prologue and truth four times each.
I need a life
I'm a huge fan of the fact that you can see the insides of your own eyelids in this game, the immersion level exceeds nine thousand.
it's over 9000!!!!!!!!
It's the best way to communicate the idea of "dissociation" that I've ever seen in a game. :D
Wyatt Strauss throws away scaner
I could not accept what happened at the end. This was one of the first games that ever entirely shocked me in the end, like I was just floored. This game is absolutely stunning with visuals, storytelling, and gameplay. Big Boss left his mark
I wonder if anyone noticed the background at 52:13 went from Diamond Dog to Outer Haven
I did
You mean the mirror?
Yes, the poit of that scene is that at some point Big Boss and Venom decided to to gor operation Intruder, but Solid Snake didn't stop earlier as planned. I think the gunshots you hear is Snake making his way in Outer Heaven.
Knowing that Big Boss still needs time for his plan in Zanzibar to work, and out of loyalty towards Big Boss, Venom Snake listens to the tape once again and confronts Solid, getting himself killed just so he can buy more time for Bog Boss.
That's Venom's footsteps.
12:27
When Quiet is talking about the patient in the next bed. Is she talking about Venom? She could know Venom is only a copy if she overheard the doctor talking.
No, she's talking bout Naked
DisClaimer qq she goes to kill venom first instead of naked snake
@@fakename2553 Thats right. Must've meant she wanted to kill Ishmael, I don't see any other reason as to why she went to kill Venom first after she said that. Very odd.
Ishmael should've been voiced by David Hayter during the truth. Keep him silent the whole time and only have him talk when Ocelot shows up.
But you already played with a Kieffer voiced Ishmael in Ground Zeroes
@@CRITIXORG He should've been Hayter there too.
pretty sure during 5's development he straight up didn't want to do snake anymore - could be wrong though
@@Killzone-cr2od that's definitely not the case. He still does the voice on Cameo and at public events, and stated that Kojima's been trying to replace him since MGS3. Hayter loves the character.
@@Ryotaiku that's what I heard 🤷♂️ my bad lol
Poor Venom being sold...Snake oil.
Big Boss bsing him on how they are one and the build the story together.
Ocelot clearly saying they're building the real Outer Haven while Venom distracts the world with the fake one.
Venom seemed so proud and happy of his role when listening to the tape but when the time skips to before right before his fight with Solid Snake he realized it was all a lie and broke the mirror in anger.
As Miller said in Metal Gear 2, "Snake, that guy is a monster."
He didn't break the mirror in anger. He broke the mirror as symbolism that they are BOTH Big Boss - Venom Snake is the "Phantom Pain" and Big Boss is the "real" Big Boss. Notice when he's listening to Big Boss via the cassette that he gets "From The Man Who Sold The World", Big Boss says that they are both Big Boss and when he puts the tape into the recorder to the computer (MSX reference), it has "Operation Intrude N313" on it and it changes to before the events of Metal Gear as we see that the "Diamond Dogs" logo has changed to "Outer Haven" and walks off into the blackness knowing he has to keep up the persona of Big Boss and thus dies fighting Solid Snake.
No matter if xof or diamond dogs, Quiet/Stefanie is one hot chick.
Her jaw is fucked, she looks like a chipmunk.
@@gojambe3957 Look at the size of those teeth.
@@7pop521 the IRL actor is good though
did we all just go back to mgsv at the same time how do we end up here so long afterwards
@@gojambe3957 that makes her look sweet. There is nothing bad about it.
it could be that "the truth" is not actually what happened. the first quote said that specifically. The scene is just what Venom interpreted. He imagined it was that guy Ishmael who's the big boss. That's also why he sounds just like V, because it's V interpretation.
Big Boss as Ishmael says after Venom asks "who are you!" - "You're talking to yourself!"
I gotta say I like midge ure's version better than David bowie's
Same.
I prefer Bowies. There's also Nirvana's version that's pretty good.
When you realize Midge Ure's cover of the original song like how Ahab was a cover for the real Big boss
*more
Huge fan of DB but midge ure's version is far better
Oh and midge's version sound more like bowie than bowie does, lmao
I'm really enjoying Kiefer Sutherland's voice echoing with the videos being out of sync by microseconds.
14:00 I like the detail that Snake lights her on fire. He always has a lighter on him because he can't go a day without a cigar.
So up until the music crackles and shifts from us hearing it to us hearing it come out of the radio or whatever, was that supposed to mean Venom had headphones on and the song was part of his brainwashing to become big boss?
I doubt it.
Really wish the real snake was voiced by Hayter.
Hayter voiced Solid Snake and The Boss. This one was Big Boss and Venom. I think Kojima wanted to spare Hayter from what he knew was going to be a failing franchise. This game was so incredibly disjointed and saw a lot of internal discord throughout its development. That's why each mission has credits.. to tell you who worked on it.
It really didn't do anything for the story overall. At this point, Metal Gear's name was turned into profit.
A decent game... sort of. But not really what you come to expect from a major Metal Gear title.
@@sethtallman7281
Kojima said he got a different VA for reasons that he wanted Snake in TPP to have more ways to capture emotion than just speech. A shame that they didn't at least get Hayter to voice the real Big Boss in the Truth cassette tapes and the Truth mission.
I played the entire game tranquillising everyone, only killing when i absolutely had to. After watching this at the end i started killing everyone who wasn’t S rank or higher
Digoxin is a cardiac med that decreases rate but increases force of contractions allowing better perfusion. Commonly used for A fib and heart failure.
In the end, it's all smoke and mirrors.
THEY PLAYED US LIKE A DAMN FIDLLE
Snake & Mirrors
There's a track in Infamous Second Son called Smoke and Mirrors, Troy Baker voices Delsin Rowe, Hideo initially used Sucker Punche's infamous engine to test out Death Stranding... And you know who else was in Death Stranding? Troy Baker.
What if you're a spy? Or I am?
The Trolljima never ends sheeple
FUN FACT, you can.get Delsin's beanie as a headband in ghost of tsushima, nifty little thing. It's called an infamous headband or whatever
I really wish they brought in David Hayter to voice Ishmael for the second play through.
Honestly, I still don't know how the guy didn't see you under the table at 19:48.
Did you ever wore that king of gasmask? It blocks more than 75% of your view and blurry, he needed to look straight at him to see him, he can't see left or right
If I were Ishmael, I'm pretty sure I'd keep retrying this level for an S rank.
Now everybody, imagine Ocelot's surprise when he remembered what he actually done
49:50 mind blowing in 3,2,1....POW !
Now heres proof of a good game its been 4 years and we're still coming back to investogate more
the game left some . . . phantom pain in all of us . . .
This sequence is so long but I’ve seen and played it so many times, that just tells me this was a quality game.
I remember firing up this game for the very first time just before going to work. The intro alone almost made me late.
Ah...at around 7 mins, the doctor is telling him bout fragments of human bone/teeth still inside of him in his skull and near his heart...Then remembering recently hearing the recording of Paz saying something like, "even though she is gone, she will always remain with him in his memories and in his heart" (literally) - Do'h!!! So...after plenty of time and consideration, with more and more things such as that coming to light and/or being realised...I think this actually did end up being a really good (and complete) game after all; I didn't like it that much at first but it's grown on me a lot.
In Budism there are 108 defilements of body that need to be cleared towards the path to enlightenment or something like that... Venom has 108 fragments in him.. this game is a deep water.
I love that music in the beginning, pretty much sums up the story of venom snake and naked snake!
Big Boss only enters into one coma and that's in 1999 after Solid Snake defeats him at Zanzibar. Dr. Clark put him in a coma. He then wakes up in 2014. Zero visits him but it's not in 1977, it's actually in 2001.
Venom is brainwashed and programmed into Big Boss in the 80's. Solid Snake defeats Venom in 1995 and blows Venom up. As Venom lay dying, he's drifting in and out of hypnogogic sleep. He thinks its 1984 and relives his experiences as Big Boss. This is what the player experiences. That's the game. Venom's programming, memory, and brain damage from the Nato bombing at Outer Heaven blur Venom's perception. As Ocelot says, Venom died for Big Boss and is on a journey to Hell.
Venom's subconscious tries to tell him this through hallucinating Paz. Paz too thinks its a different time, 1975. She ignores whatever doesn't fit her internal timeline. Venom is blocking out fighting Solid Snake and being blown up because it's too traumatic and the brain damage he suffered has altered his personality. He was programmed as Big Boss to begin with so as his personality begins to break apart due to trauma pieces of his identity as Medic comes through periodically. That's why sometimes he looks in the mirror and sees Big Boss and other times he sees himself.
The shrapnel in his body is from Solid Snake blowing him to shit. In truth Venom is without limbs and periodically feels pain in them. This pain is probably reframed in his mind as the memories of fighting. Just like dipping someone's hand in water and having them urinate as they sleep. Venom's experience is solely in his mind. His body, movements, hallucinations, and even fantasies are only in his mind. Just as he feels pain from limbs that aren't there, so too he experiences the shock, horror, and trauma from a life he never lived. That's the true phantom pain.
Goosebumps when that song comes on
Poor doc lic if ur sad
* lics phone *
Can you do a side by side of when they're just arriving at the hospital? When they're all on the beds nearly dying
For all this games fault, I still love it. All the the subtleties, quotes, music, action quirks, and just everything else make this game perfect to me.
Oh my god
The "This is you as youve lived till this day" scene
in the second version, you see everything, but you only see it the second time in the first verison
Such a perfect song for the game
masterpiece, Idc the twist makes the theme better
Their friendship always saddens me when I think about how it ends
I don’t really mind the ending we got, but goddamn it would’ve been cool if in mission 46 we played the level from Ishmael’s POV instead of Venoms.
Phyco Mantis was OP.
in ps1? yes.. in ps4? not anymore !
Thanks for this.
The main thing keeping me from replaying the game is the sheer length of this. But it is epic
Is it normal that everythings seem a little more bright colorless?
In ocelots missionbriefing last tape snake says something about right after waking up the colours were "fadet"....
didn't notice it, but yeah the sharpnel is pressing an optic nerve which is why reds fade to gray when you're low on health or suffer a major injury
To the point that originally it was supposed to be some what of a plot point. The scrapped mission where you get back Sahelanthropus from Eli has an ending that has you shoot Eli because a bump to the shrapnel in your head means you are no longer able to distinguish a red hazmat suit from a white one (they both look white).
So no one is going to talk about how easily Quiet threw away Big Boss?
Nanomachines son.
Nobody knows.
A recently out of coma Big Boss, out of shape, who was trying to not show off much and was unarmed vs possibly the greatest XOF assasin? Sure.
@Dmitry TKR
"Well, he's stabilized but he took too long, he's in a coma": Mission 50 The Truth.
"No point waking up after 9 years for that" Big Boss, Truth Tapes.
Zero also mentions Big Boss's coma.
Hes just a soldier,nothing special
You also are a victim of zero's campaign of propaganda
Before people complain about the Truth being slower it started after the Prologue did.
I actually skipped the cutscenes at the beginning cause thought if was just a replay 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Lol
the lesson is to never skip Kojima's cutscenes
Kojima really just added bonus footage to the opening mission which exposed the truth, only to be like 'hahaaa you guys are idiots if you didn't see this twist coming'
I can't imagine how much money they throw at music licenses... MGSV is full of timeless classic songs
95% of music rights are owned by just 3 corporations
I keep thinking back to the ending and I try to remember what made me accept "Okay, now model an avatar to your liking, anyway, don't worry about it for the rest of the game, you actually are Big Boss ;) ;) ;)" because the whole thing was just so strange then and in hindsight. How did Kojimbo get away with this
thanks for this
I dunno, I suspected the truth the moment the line 'call me Ishmael' popped up.
i dont know...when i was replaying the mission 1...when Quiet point a gun on me.. the Screen change black and i can hear Quiet song.. just like quiet always did.. and then she already stand on the corner of room waiting get throwing a bottle of alcohol by Big Boss..
There is a part of me that the XOF strike force was actually a False Flag Assault by using Diamond Dogs with Troublemaker Stats in order to 1.) Get BB and Venom out of the hospital 2.) Kill everyone who knows about Big Boss and Venom staying in Dhekelia and destroying files as well. However they met their unexpected fate when Volgin and Tretij Rebenok showed themselves and started burning the place. If that would be true, then that is something Big Boss would really do, post- Mother Base
This challenges my suspension of disbelief a little too hard.
That's because it's full of holes and horribly written.
I thought in the prologue quiet had a mask on and it was more implied to be just some guy
I like how foreign languages are subtitled in the second mission, symbolising that Venom has re learned the languages he has supposedly “forgotten”
I find it a bit evil that they used a mentally impaired(doctor's words) man to take Big Boss's place. A perfect useful tool.
It is evil, and so are Big Boss and Ocelot
All's fair in love and war
Correct. Up until now Big Boss had his reasons for what he was doing. He was morally questionable but well-meaning in Peace Walker, but here is where we see him finally become a villain.
@@TheCh33ks Its all about perspective. Remember there is no place for heroes. Solid Snake ended up being just a puppet of Zero and the patriots to kill big boss so that Zero's vision of the world would be the one to come out on top.
Prologue is like ur playing a horror game
26:42 bruhhh this is so different after the plotwist “Venom snake awakes Mantis power thanks to his hate, and then Mantis helped snake”
Couldn’t have synced it bit better, literally fraction of a second