@Phillip Donelson ('22) I agree. A T should be ashamed of themselves. A more accurate quote would be "Che was extremely homophobic, which is very bad. Except when me and my corporate masters do it."
Phillip Donelson ('22) Crowder *is* a strawman. He’s paid by conservatives to tell them the lies they want to hear. Because, as I’m sure you know, conservatism is a delusional worldview predicated on false beliefs.
I also saw a documentary once about Che, and they also claimed that Che was racist to Bolivians. But only guy that confirmed them, was literally the guy that snitched him to the CIA. What a reliable source...
How do you tell a source is reliable? Sorry to tell you that, but the only thing a Marxist-Leninist wont lie to you about is the clock. Che was a priveleged white guy, of course he was racist, all leaders in the influence of the USSR had fascistoid tendencies or where outright fascists like a few examples in Africa.
You know, it’s pretty funny to compare their reactions to che guevara saying one homophobic thing to their reactions whenever someone points out, for example, that the founders of the US owned slaves. They seem pretty okay with people celebrating them.
@@johnlove2954 Most people were homophobic back then. As this video demonstrates, the extent of Che's homophobia was nothing extraordinary, and your boy Crowder is a liar who isn't right about anything.
Or maybe the thing I take issue with is that people lie about Che Guevara in a weak attempt to fabricate leftist hypocrisy. It’s called nuance buddy, things are almost never that black and white.
@@johnlove2954 So by your logic, were the founding fathers "low IQ tools" then for being homophobic and racist? Funny how you only use this "they were men of their time" argument when it applies to people you like. Crowder demonstrably lied about (1) Che "frequently" using a gay slur (2) attributing state sanctioned homophobia of Cuba to Che when he wasn't even in Cuba (3) Che being extremely racist, when there was no evidence of him actually being racist aside from the early part of his life. I missed a few others, but I don't have the time to watch the entire video again just for you. Also why won't Crowder's daddy allow him to debate Sam Seder?
@@johnlove2954 People today who are homophobic and racist are generally "low IQ fools" because society has progressed to the point where smart, educated people understand those attitudes are irrational. No one is making special exceptions for Che, because Che's attitudes on this particular issue were perfectly normal, and the good he did vastly outweighs them. Unlike you drooling reactionary morons people on the left don't blindly worship our faves without criticism. Even liberals were immensely more critical of Obama than conservatives are of Trump. But I digress. (1) Chalking it up to the source simply being wrong assumes that Crowder is a fucking idiot who doesn't know how to do basic research. But I actually have a higher opinion of Crowder's intelligence than you do, and I can provide you multiple instances of him unquestionably lying. Here is a very obvious one twitter.com/socioEqualiser/status/1177838960032337921 (2) This is a stupid argument. Just because he helped found the communist government of Cuba doesn't mean he is responsible for everything the government did. You are now shifting the goal posts from "Che was a rabid homophobe" to "Che didn't speak out against homophobia enough." Pathetic and dishonest. Also again with another founding fathers analogy; if you tie Che's alleged homophobia to serving in the Cuban government, then you have to condemn all of the founding fathers for allowing slavery to exist. But something tells me that you don't like the implication of that assessment ;) (3) You sound like a triggered sjw reading race into everything. He didn't say the Congolese were dumb, he said the soldiers he served with in the Congo were incompetent fighters (again, without expressing that view about black Cubans). Many leftists similarly criticize the anarchist militias in the Spanish civil war as undisciplined. Does that make non-anarchists racist against Spaniards? Of course not. Crowder complained on Joe Rogan that he can't get leftists to debate him. So why does Crowder waste his time with college kids when he could be debating his counterparts on the left who actually talk about politics for a living like him? Is it because cold feet Crowder knows that he would get destroyed? We got the receipts now. Fact: Crowder chickened out of a debate with Sam Seder, just like he chickened out of his debate with Potholer. Your emperor wears no clothes.
Steven crowder saying Che is racist based off of a diary entry from when he was a younger guy is legit just the old fashioned version of cancelling someone for a 10 year old tweet before they matured into the person they are today which I’m CERTAIN he would despise
@Krónika Still as a matter of learning bieng able to speak more then one language is crucial. Knowing only one language automatically restrains you from large parts of the wider world
@Doom Wolf Considering that both places were getting ruined by Great Britain, they had a unique solidarity between them that went past racial boundaries. Basically, the Irish and black South Africans fucking hated Britain.
Smoke.Jaguar That’s only 5 years after the US. It’s almost as if everyone was homophobic for a time. I don’t doubt that both of them today would be in support of LGBT rights.
@@rust44 Uh, honosexuality wasn't legalized in America until 2003, meaning Cuba did it about 30 years *before* the US. That is not to say some states in the US didn't have legalized gay relationships sooner I'm simply unfamiliar with the topic on that level, but on the federal level it was 2003.
@@McHobotheBobo Homosexuality and Gay Marriage are not considered the same in the legal sense. Before 1967, the problem wasn't just that you couldn't get married to someone of the same sex. It was that you would be arrested and sent to a Mental Asylum just for having a sexual relationship with the same sex. The latter is what was decriminalized first.
All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put back Humpty Dumpty back together again… because Che Guevara stole them for the Socialist Liberation Army! 🤣Z🤣
Anyone who grows up and says "Hey I used to be racist, I was stupid, I realized I was stupid, so I stopped." Is already beyond what most people are capable of. Not that the bar is very high, but still, admitting your wrongs requires a level of humility most just can't and won't reach.
So wait.... They only homophobic quote from him is one where he says he likes a gay man? And was upset that he got beat up? Yeah he wasn't a gay rights activist or much of an ally. But he wasn't any more homophobic then literally everybody at the time. I've seen TH-cam videos about gay people in sitcoms and this would fit right in with the stuff that was very progressive for it's time that we'd now feel like wasn't very much at all. If the sitcom man who's learning that someone he likes is gay and is willing to look past that.
@transylvanian that's what I was thinking. In the context of the quote, I don't think you can really even say it's 100% homophobic, because who knows if he was referring to his sexuality, or his actual disposition. He could very well have been a "sexual pervert" beyond the fact that his sexuality isn't the norm.
@@thepossessor Yes, and people always use (and know) the dictionary definition. Never ever in the history of mankind have people fucked around with friends and gave them negative nicknames while meaning well, and never ever was hyperbole a word. Non literal meaning, absolutely a non possibility no matter the context; this is just how humans work.
@@calundoconteal6851 I don't know that he hates them, I just don't think he likes them. He was also apparently demonetized for a time for harassing a gay journalist with more than a few slurs so again I'm not sure it's 100% jokes. I know that's his sense of humor though, very Call of Duty 2008, so it's difficult to tell.
The quote doesn't even say that he's a pervert for being gay, just that he's a pervert. I know many LGBTQ+ *individuals* who can be described as perverts, and I'm a member of the community lol.
Plus you think that the average homophobe in the 1950s would hate a person they thought was gay, right? In the quote he says "apart from him being a pervert and a bore, *we liked him."*
@@ewee2568 It could be that he was using the word 'pervert' in its purest sense ('regarded as abnormal or unacceptable') rather than as a moral judgment or slur. He was, after all, an intellectual -- the nuances are sometimes lost when interpreted by the less informed.
I'm like the biggest pervert and don't have a prob with anyone calling me that unless it's in a hateful way. Che complimented the guy by saying he liked him. He was prolly just a bit rowdy so che referred to him as a sexual perv... hyper sexual... in your face with his sexuality... maybe something like that? Who knows. It's prolly not a big deal. But what do I know? Big brain crowder says he's a massive homophobe a hole so I guess he must be end of story case closed lol Also back then wording things was harder to make sound less offensive. I think he was just trying to be descriptive and maybe came off sounding kinda homophobic on accident. Big whoop lol well meaning caring people slip up like that all of the time today. Being accidently racist or homophobic without even realizing it at first is a thing... It CAN happen.
@@mollymalone5545or he couldn't have he could have litteraly been calling him a perv for being gay still as a queer person I still appreciate all the things he's done for global revolution but we don't need to nuance our way otta someone being homiphobic .
@@yassine8935 I thought he wrote that when he was younger,I know it’s a shitty thing to write but he changed as he got older If I’ve been informed correctly. Please feel free to inform me though if I’m wrong I’ve been studying che Guevara from multiple angles and sources because I can’t really get a good angle on him morally though it seems like he started good ended grey?….tbh even after a good few hours over a few weeks he’s a little complicated
Liberals short circuit when you have a nuanced view of Cuba. "Yes, Castro and Che were far from perfect. But compare Cuba to America's client states in the Caribbean like the Dominican Republic. At the very least, Cuba provides healthcare and education to its people." You'll be met with scorn for this line of thinking. I wish libs were able to separate the wheat from the chaff AND assess the vicious role of capital in the authoritarian turn of many self-styled socialist states.
Very true. Also "but people left Cuba to come to the US and receive US residency and legal rights, therefore Communism=bad". It's not like anybody ever left a theoretical capitalist Mexico or Dominican Republic to unblock toilets for less than the minimum wage, with no clear path to legal status... Another example of bad things in the capitalist system being "just how things are" and not representative of the system as a whole.
@@JustinElliott1 If you mean OPRAHRULZ, no, they appear to be a leftist. If you're confused by their criticism of liberals, consider that most leftists use the word "liberal" in its original sense (the way political scientists also tend to use it), to refer to the entire spectrum from center-right to center-left.
I actually have to assume that much of this desire to paint Guevara this way (at least by the likes of Crowder and Dennis Prager) is a deflection. "You can't criticize us for our racism and homophobia if one of yours was one too". I genuinely believe that's about where their own moral compasses are. It's not wrong if the other guy does it too.
@@BigMac4459 Yeah, I agree that factors into it too. But I just see this same sort of "gotcha" game play out over and over again. Especially on Prager U. "Oh yeah? You think that's so great? Well, they're as bad as we are! So Capitalist Conservatism wins!"
@@johnlove2954 "one of mine" in this context means someone of similar political affiliations. No group is really a hive mind, but a collection of individuals. If "one of mine" had a background of racism, you bet I'd call it out.
@@johnlove2954 The premise of the video was that Crowder and Prager U have to lie and manipulate the truth by leaving out context in order to paint Guevara as homophobic and racist. If he were those things, and everything the two above said were true, then of course it wouldn't be wrong to call him out, or to point that out to people who weren't aware of it. (On it's face. It would certainly still be hypocritical of Crowder - but appeal to hypocrisy is a poor argument) But they're not. The issue isn't with the calling out. It's with the dishonesty.
@@johnlove2954 This is a lot of putting words into people's mouths and what I assume amounts to a lot of projection. Che calling a gay man a "sexual pervert" is homophobic. It's equally bad, and the fact that nearly every straight man of his time would have agreed does not make it "OK". If he were alive today, I would not support those statements, would hope he'd retract them. If he didn't, that would not be "OK" with me. Crowder's homophobia is pretty self-evident. And of course that makes it hypocritical of him to act as if homophobia is a bad thing, UNLESS it's of the mindset of "well I guess it's ok because you do it too". Would Guevara have supported Castro's camp system? I don't know. That's the point. He wasn't there to take part in it. If you can find a primary source where he says "I sure wish I was in Cuba so I could put the gays in camps like Castro is", then bring it back here because I'm sure BadEmpanada, as well as myself, would be quick to change our tunes and condemn him for it. But you can't condemn a man for something there's no proof of. THAT is what the "guilt by association" logical fallacy actually entails. That people are guilty of specific actions because their associates are guilty of them without direct proof. Also: yes, context matters re the Congolese soldiers? A blanket statement of "Congolese people are dumb" is a racist (or ethnically prejudice) statement, regardless of who says it. "These specific soldier I'm working with are incompetent" requires greater context to form an opinion about. Once again, find a primary source where Guevara adds something like "and it's because they're conoglese, unlike afro-cubans who are the good ones" and I'll immediately condemn him for it as being racist. Meanwhile, if Crowder was as right as you believe, I don't think he would need to resort to relying on things that are downright falsehoods - which you did not address.
Thing is, I'm queer myself, and even that part that Che wrote didn't come off as *necessarily* homophobic to me. It could be, but it also came with the additional information that they knew this guy. They also describe him as a drunkard, a lot of drunkards can be lecherous due to their lack of inhibition which will sometimes lead to harassment. I'm not defending any homophobic sentiment here, but to me it sounded like Che could've said he's a pervert regardless of being gay. Also the ''yell and insult people'' part kinda indicates this as well. If Che had said other things to suggest a prejudice towards gay people then maybe that would give a more damning context. But if this is indeed the only thing to show Che as homophobic, then I'd say it's pretty weak.
I mean it might suggest a prejudice against gay people if he weren't as consistently repressing straight people who display a similar level of drunkenness and/or lechery. But that's like, such a minor kind of homophobia given how homophobic everyone else was in the time period
@@pestoriusj True I guess, but it also comes with the conjecture that this represented all of his views and attitudes constantly throughout his whole lifetime, and there's something sad about that in my opinion. That we assume people are incapable of change, or growth or redemption. So I try to avoid that conjecture for the sake of the living.
@@marcomartinezcolmenares1551 I know exactly what you mean. I'm Spanish, and I am 99 percent sure of where Latin America got it from. Personally I have not experienced a lot of it, but the things my mother have had to endure over the years is honestly shameful in this day and age.
Plus like it really was a different time. People talked about sexuality differently. My dad said when he was a kid he didn't know what gay was and they (people in his community) didn't even have a word for it. The Che quote doesn't sound great but i don't think there's enough context to make a lot of claims about what he actually thought or what meanings he attributed to the words he used
Thinking of gay people as "sexual perverts" was the default belief during the 1950-60s everyone thought and said that. I don't get why this is shocking.
@@crispychicken11037 Also the way folks talked back then was always more offensive sounding just because they didn't have better wording to show more sensitivity and restraint to not offend. Higher chance of sounding offensive back in the day is my point. Even folks today say the wrong thing on accident even though they meant well. And some folks believe the dumb evil thing until someone sets them str8 about the issue. Often doesn't mean a person is a monster just because they are a lil ignorant and need to be brought up to speed and or deprogramed a lil bit. Some of us are raised by racist red necks. That sux lol and we should help deprogram that nonsense. Not just label them monsters who should always be treated poorly. Although some of these racist clowns are pretty stubborn and annoying lol ngl... A man who has done a bad thing and wants to make amends can be a man who does great things for others as he knows how to keep others from making his mistakes.
Adding context about young Che's racism, the fact that he's specifically talking about Black people vs Portuguese suggests to me that he's repeating anti-Brazilian (the main Portuguese ex-colony in America) xenophobic sentiments present in Argentina. Argentinians to this day sometimes spout crap about how Brazil is bad because it's "full of blacks" and are proud of how much whiter and European their own country is. The stereotypes about the "three races" (indigenous, black and european) were prevalent in Latin American scholarship for a long time. So I'm not surprised he, coming from a privileged background, repeated that uncritically until reality forced him to learn.
And also were genocidalists and, as landed property owners, thieves and proto-fascists responsible for creating a state and society built around the acquisition and inheritance of private property.
Really why do people say things like this? History isn’t this black and white, saying that because a historical figure did something now seen as terrible but not in the context of that time means that everything they did needs to be erased is absurd!
Just mentioning Paul Robeson in passing, you should do a video on his activism, art, and fight against the Red Scare. The Feds did so much to erase him from the public, and you're the first breadtuber I've heard mention him. Great vid
It makes me angry, sad and embarrassed that for 50+ years of my life I just accepted things thinking the msm were a bastion of honest and fair reporting. Talk about living with blinders on. You have an amazing channel.
There is big difference between msm today and 50+ years ago and big difference between right wing and left wing (or even CeNtRisT). I find a lot of MSM today, while not being 100% accurate to be rather decent. Reuters, Associated Press, Al Jazeera, DW are pretty decent.
"He was an introvert and was probably gay, too." "This episode bothered us, because apart from him being a sexual pervert and a bore, we liked him." I don't know if I would count this as a homophobic statement, because we don't know what he was saying or doing so he may have been sexually harassing the other party goers. While not even touching the fact that in the fifities that's a very nice way to refer to a gay man, especially because they may not have had the words to describe him in a nice way at the time.
@@emersonpage5384 (maybe I'm a little [too] drunk to write this but) I think, after watching this video, Che would be the type of guy that would slurp mate dulce if that would lead to an 'united left'.
Edit: You did good mentioning Fidel's words about the mistreatment of gay people. It seems he felt terrible about it given that he made Cuba a great place for the LGBTQIA+ community. If Che was homophobic, he didn't let it come into things he did. If Castro was, he changed his position.
Man this was amazing. Thank you. I had come across those claims too, and unfortunately I didn't further research them and assumed that they were true because a lot of people were like that back then.
Yo. I just want to say yout channel is great. I grew up in an American evangelical environment. My father is a literal Southern baptist preacher. My first exposure to leftism was through Liberation theogy which has its roots in Latinx environments and it super exciring to see it discussed through a lens that while i have am affection for i am quite distant from. Sincerely, somedipshit Irish American
Please don't use Latinx, at least use something like Latine or Latin@. Latinx was made by english speakers with a white savior complex trying to 'fix' our language.
Fernando Giubilei the term has been widely appropriated by Chicano groups in the US and originated from the internet all the way back around 2004, so I don’t know where you came to that conclusion. If there’s anything to criticize about the comment it’s that it’s used incorrectly, as Latinx is mainly used to refer to people within the lgbt community.
Daily reminder that Castro took responsibility for the camps in 2010 and paid out reparations. That doesn't instantly make it right, but it does show a willingness to do better
You have a new subscriber. You're videos are well researched and informative with great production value. As an out gay man from the 60's and 70's I appreciate your work. Thank-you.
I have a Che tattoo and I serve in the US Military. No one really says anything to me now, but I had an issue a few years back when someone tried to say Che was an extremist and a terrorist. I replied with pointing out that they did not have the same issue with people who have Confederate Flag tattoos or people that say Obama was not an American.
I have no need, no desire to argue with people who aren't interested in primary sources and critical thought anymore. I thank this video for that. I used to ruin many good times arguing with people who just spout stupid shit at bars and parties that I know are untrue, out of context or at the very least more nuanced than they care to consider.
glad i found your channel. you seem really chill, with high production quality and interesting topics.i also love me some crowder and pragerU bashing .
He was born in Argentina, he fought for Cuba, Congo, Bolivia, Guatemala and his was a racist... He was a good, honorable, romantic, clever and stubborn man he always has been and always be. Hasta la victoria siempre.
the usage of the term "homosexuals" really stands out. normally people just say "gay" especially younger people. even formally. the vast majority of people who say "homosexuals" are homophobic.
The excerpt from Che's Diary was written in 1952, almost nobody in Argentina knew the term "gay" at the time, which incidentally, at that time was not yet synonymous with same-sex attracted people, it was also used to simply describe a happy person, and even today in Latin America the term "homosexual" is used without any offensive intent
With the sexual pervert quote, it's not necessarily homophobic. Depending on how you read it he could be saying that he's a sexual pervert, unrelated to him being gay. Unlikely perhaps, but still plausible and thus the single homophobic quote Che ever wrote is disputable
If the poor man was drunk, there's the possibility that he might have had some kind of behavior that could be labeled as a perv behavior, independently of his gender orientation.
13:49 Also, as an Argentinian, we curse a lot and have a potty mouth, calling a guy you like a sexual pervert is no more insult than saying someone is a "horndog" or a "player", he could have even used degenerate and it would have been a milder term than it is for North American culture. I'd argue, for contrast, that degenerate seems to be an even harsher term in English but a very milder term than pervert in Argentinian Spanish.
I consider myself right wing but more importantly I consider myself someone that values the truth, and doesn’t just parrot talking points. Videos like these that are objective and meticulously researched are always helpful
Its actually crazy and disgusting how much fake propaganda is out there about Che. I grew up with a father who always talked about him and looked up to him, along with Malcolm X and Zapata. I mean literally my dad always wore a Che hat and hoodie lol. Thank you so much for these videos! Your extensive research is appreciated, I hope to educate and correct more people about Che.
Seriously it is actually crazy. I assumed at first it was one of those things where the famous historical figure had skeletons in his closet but couldn't believe that every single claim made against him was false beyond him being a revolutionary. It seems like the majority of the internet is in an echo chamber that believes all of it is true without a second thought so it is refreshing to find a video actually dispelling the lies.
Thank you so much!! I have read two biographies and have always revered Che. No man is perfect, but THANK YOU for this so I have a link for people who call me misinformed or stupid~ people who actually know NOTHING about Che. This is a perfect video to reply to all these ridiculous assertions coming out lately about how “evil” he was.
The crusades were a series of religious wars promoted by the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. These military campaigns had the declared objective of recovering for Christianity the region of the Near East known as the Holy Land, which was under the rule of Islam.
Sometimes the algorithm provides me with some really good content. This video for example. Good job! I was recently involved in a discussion about racism with some alt-right dipshit and out of nowhere they brought up the exact talking points you mentioned by Crowder and PragerU. I had already done some reading on Guevara prior so I knew it was probably bullshit, but I didn't have the amount of evidence you brought up here. Now I know where to link people if that crap ever comes up in conversation again!
Nicolás Marquez usa la palabra "sodomita" para referirse a los hombres homosexuales en su libro, es totalmente hipócrita que acuse a alguien más de homofobia
Thanks so much for this! I was in a discussion with some Internet strangers about Che Guevara, and someone made the claim that he would have executed people for being gay. I tried to look into this claim, found nothing about it on his Wikipedia page, kept looking, and found several articles that made this sort of claim, that he was homophobic, but all of them seem to be right-wing articles with no sources cited, written by authors with no apparent credentials, or otherwise the only source they DO cite for that claim is going back to another right-wing article with no sources and a creepy right-wing author. This is an excellent review of the evidence!
Okay, this cleared up a lot of my misconceptions about Che; great, well researched video. And a mea culpa from myself. (As a caveat and in my defence none of the sources which I found the quotes I attributed to him in your last Che video were from right-wing sources--I first came across the quotes in, maybe, 2012/13 in the UK Socialist Workers Party periodical. Anyway, sincere thanks Mr. Empanada!) Lol thanks for the, uh, recognition and for having the decency to blank out my name--not that I would've minded if you hadn't, it was just a sound thing to do. Cheers!
I know this is baseless, wild speculation, but as a gay who was a closet case for many, many years - Crowder gives me the self-hating closeted 'mo vibe like mad. He just never misses an opportunity to bring it up/harp on it. And also, though not quite the same, his "any excuse to put a dress on" to ... own the trans? There's something going on there, anyway. But also, great vid.
@@seto749 I don't wish for anything here, just describing a vibe I get. There's a lot of dudes that are self-hating in this specific way. I've known enough of them. I would be equally unsurprised if Crowder was just a run of the mill straight bigot, too. (Gay hating left? Are you some kind of TERF or something?)
@@Taumpy Sorry; it should have been "the G-hating PORTION of the left"; elsewhere I'd been discussing whether a particular person should be considered on the pro-G left or the anti-G left (I specify the G because a lot of leftist straight people who like trans people or lesbians loathe us, but the Alphabet Soup terminology muddles that). I didn't intend to imply that the entire left hates us - just a large chunk of it. It is a common tactic of G-hating leftists to hurl homophobic slurs and accusations of being closeted at right-wingers of particularly loathsome character. Thank you, therefore, for clarifying.
Noah Minteer lots of self-hating, religious closet cases get married and have kids. It’s still pretty common, although luckily for the spouses and kids less so than it used to be. And like I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was completely straight, either. Sometimes bigots aren’t self-hating closet cases. 🙂 I’m gonna guess you’re probably straight. Or at least young and/or lucky enough to not have grown up where you’d develop an eye for the type of bully that targets people like you because of something they hate in themselves.
I often think that this man hasn’t even read Che’s bio. Or even Che’s writings… Its disgusting to read a newspaper article and not a book about the actual character
Thanks B E. My youngest child has Che as a middle name because I read John Anderson's amazing biography of him at the time of my son's birth. I was lucky enough to meet Che's daughter at Reddings in Lygon st when she was out here promoting the book she published of her talks with Chavez while she was working in Venezuela with a detachment of doctors. She was thrilled that my son had Che in his name and took photos with my kids and signed a copy of motor cycle diaries addresses to my kids. I love Che. Incorruptible. I just think he was a bit selfish to go off on more revolutions AFTER he had kids. Regards racism, don't forget his black girlfriend in Sierra Maestra!! ... Hehe
Bad Empanada, as you may know here in Latinamerica the book of Laje and Marquez called: “El Libro Negro de La Nueva Izquierda” (in english: The Black Book of The New Left) is really popular and a lot of persons believe in what the book says, and other youtubers that makes content in spanish tried to make a review of that book but always there are the fans of Laje and Marquez make that videos full of dislikes, can you make a review of that book and exposed all the lies that are in the book? Si hablas español y estás harto de los youtubers de derecha te recomiendo canales como Hipster Posmo y Quetzal que son muy buenos y hablan de los bulos de la derecha.
@@MadeleineSwannSurreal mumak333 isn't offended. They're a sargonite peterphile pulling the same bullshit crowder is when he pretends he cares about Che supposedly being sexist and racist.
Actually, after reading the full quote I would argue that Che wasn't a real homophobic by the standards of that time: he said that he actually liked this guy!
@@nomorewar4189 People claiming that European countries are socialist is not being honest. Every one of the 27 EU countries are capitalist regulated market economies with universal (not socialist) healthcare and pension care invented by Colbert and made universal by Otto von Bismarck. Google list of socialist states on wikipedia and you will find a lot of socialist and communist states but none of your "utopian" socialist societies, neither in the past and not those remaining in the present. And the difference as a West European i witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall (the wall your ideology built to prevent people to come to us not the other way around) live on TV and later the East Europeans from socialist and from communist countries ran into Western, Southern and Northern Europe to see reality of their wealth, living standard and technology disparity for themselves. Culture Shock and Ideology Shock guaranteed. The economic, technological, living standard, car, food, TV, telephone, and freedom gap difference between east and west was so staggering that Germany still nowadays pays to uplift East German part of the country (former socialist "republic" of DDR). And the last fall of socialism in Europe were when socialist regimes of Tito in Yugoslavia and Ceaucescu in Romania fell. Again the clash of societies it was like a travel to the past (for those from the West visiting to Yugoslavia and Romania and a trip to the future for those coming from Yugoslavia and Romania to the Western European capitalist countries. Even today to gap that socialism caused was so big that many Ex-Yugoslavian people migrate to our Western European countries. The question you have to ask yourself : is why do socialist regimes built walls or fences or make it difficult for their people to leave their country by law, because way more people flee from socialist countries to capitalist countries than the other way around. Even South Americans and Central Americans, all flee towards capitalist USA or our countries and not to any remaining socialist country today (Venezuela, Cuba, Laos, etc). Even you do not migrate to those socialist countries. Instead socialists all around the world lie and pretend that we Europeans are socialist countries when every of the 27 EU countries are capitalist regulated market economies with universal (not socialist) healthcare and pension care invented by Colbert and made universal by Otto von Bismarck.
@@nomorewar4189 It is always the "sanction excuse" or the "not true socialism" excuse. It is almost never the leaders or the socialist system or socialist ideology fault with you guys :-) Listen to interviews or podcasts with people fleeing Cuba and Venezuela to face the harsh reality of Venezuela's and Cuba's authoritarian government, weak economy, poor food supply (a problem almost always in socialist or communist countries of the past. And even nowadays, see South American, African and Asian socialist countries and their poor food supplies). Authoritarianism, problems of food supplies, poor diversity in food offer, behind era technology level, massive censorship and massive population surveillance and control are the underlying problems of socialism once the system is enacted nationwide on the economical and political level. Proven by history in over 65 countries in less than 120 years. And many are still existing today. Socialism perfectly fits the definition of insanity by Albert Einstein : "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results" Why instead of socialism (which will never work) don't you guys try advocate for something that has never been tried : - a democratically elected technocracy where scientists, doctors and engineers are democratically elected among a pool of the very best to lead our countries with scientific facts (scientific consensus on real world topics), instead of being led by elected politicians and their political ideologies that are not scientific consensus facts but only opinions and personal world views of the politicians and their parties. - or advocate for Jacque Fresco Project Venus resources based economy Regulated capitalism is the best system humanity tried in the last 5000 years of recorded history, historically socialism in any form has always failed, so why if you do not like capitalism, you guys do not advocate for something new instead never tried before, instead of the failed century old socialist ideologies in any form. Like religious cultists you were indoctrinated in socialist ideologies that will never bring your expected utopian outcome quite on the contrary as historically proven for over 100 years.
@@nomorewar4189 Socialism perfectly fits the definition of insanity by Albert Einstein : "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"
So it sounds like he grew out of his narrow minded beliefs as he was exposed to a wider world, and an abundance of talented and varied people. Thanks for sharing this enlightening video. There's very few people who actually do a deep dive into the primary sources like you do, and its refreshing to see it.
He was def racist when younger. But it's funny how Che tore into his own imperialist, clasist and racist views (esp his machoism) from his 20s multiple times publicly and politically, but folks like humans to remain stationary in their views and hence their humanity to make weird cardboard cut outs of historical figures. Man, id hope if i was ever famous people would bring up every indiscretion I had committed so I could be sure to work on them. I read John Lee Anderson's book and also his diary in Africa and was expecting some racial slights when he got to Congo due to the 20s stuff but then it was simply coz I thought he'd retain some form of bigotry like we all do, but he didnt. I gave him no leeway re this but he simply was extremely consistent re his views and actions after the revolution. Satre called him the 'most complete human of our age' and tbh I can see why... he sorted his most bigoted elements out and exposed himself and his journey at every turn. If folks are interested why he was so revered, it really WAS his character and committment... I can't think of many other bios ive read where I felt inspired to be operating on the level he was.
I have only ever had an extremely basic idea of who Che Guevara was throughout my life. Revolutionary, Guerrilla fighter, leftist icon, and socialist would be the most I would be able to really say about him with any amount of confidence and even some of those descriptions I'm sure are not completely perfect. Hell I would have probably even said that he was Cuban unless it was a multiple choice question and happened to remember that he wasn't when I saw Argentinian as an option. So when I saw this video I decided to watch it because, while there was every possibility that my ignorance on the subject of Che Guevara meant that I was simply incorrect, every rational thought in my head was quite certain that the notion of him being a Homophobic Racist was definitely incorrect or at most was something being exaggerated. So thank you very much Sir for a well done video that gave me a better understanding of Che and who he was and also for providing sources. I came here to check my ignorance on a subject and I got a quick education while enjoying one of my favorite things to watch on TH-cam, yet another person demonstrating how simple it is to expose Crowder and PragerU for the worthless asshats that they are LOL.
I'm discovering this channel this week and I really like how unpolished it is. What the author lacks in flashy preservation presentation, he makes up for in research and nuance. I line it
18:40 what's more depressing is that Rubio is a Senator, not just a Representative. He doesn't just represent some wacko right wing district, he represents the entire state of Florida
i have a sudden boost in respect for che guevara edit: I just watched through the video and not only did he prove che guevara was a good person but he also proved that fidel castro is more self accountable than US leaders and eventually turned his ideology about gay people around XD
Crowder: "Che was extremely homophobic. But, despite that, he was a very bad dude."
Underrated.
@Phillip Donelson ('22) I agree. A T should be ashamed of themselves. A more accurate quote would be "Che was extremely homophobic, which is very bad. Except when me and my corporate masters do it."
Phillip Donelson ('22) Crowder *is* a strawman. He’s paid by conservatives to tell them the lies they want to hear.
Because, as I’m sure you know, conservatism is a delusional worldview predicated on false beliefs.
Phillip Donelson ('22) Oof the snowflake got offended
Cassian lol, good one.
"The problem with quotes found on the internet is that they are often not true."
-Abraham Linconl
Haha nice 😂
Confucius say, don't quote shit i didn't say.
Funny because internet wasn’t invented then
"Wait, what the fuck? I didn't say that"
-Abraham Linconl
im not believing this then
I also saw a documentary once about Che, and they also claimed that Che was racist to Bolivians. But only guy that confirmed them, was literally the guy that snitched him to the CIA. What a reliable source...
Hated them so much he went there to fight and lose his life for them, sometimes the lies are uninspired and lazy.
In Bolivia where he got killed apparently they cut up his limbs and put them up in different places in Bolivia to make a example out of him
How do you tell a source is reliable? Sorry to tell you that, but the only thing a Marxist-Leninist wont lie to you about is the clock. Che was a priveleged white guy, of course he was racist, all leaders in the influence of the USSR had fascistoid tendencies or where outright fascists like a few examples in Africa.
nicolas marquez calling someone an homophobic is like the pope accusing someone of being a catholic
Dude you can't use the same thing again as an example
It doesnt make sence? Who sais that homophobic people cant be right about that? they should know best who is a homophobe shouldnt they?
Isn't he Agustin Laje's boyfriend?
nyarlotep siiiii
@@nyarlotep Agustin Laje is not Nicolas Marquez boyfriend...
In the U.K homosexual men were chemically castrated. A famous case of this was Alan Turing , the man who decoded the Enigma machine
apparently they're putting him on the new £50 note. seems a lot of other people were happy but it infuriated me
@@stansfield4163due to the hypocrisy of it all? Perhaps there’s a better word
He also invented the first Turing machine
You know, it’s pretty funny to compare their reactions to che guevara saying one homophobic thing to their reactions whenever someone points out, for example, that the founders of the US owned slaves. They seem pretty okay with people celebrating them.
I’m not. I’m not personally a big fan of glorIifying any particular individual.
@@johnlove2954 Most people were homophobic back then. As this video demonstrates, the extent of Che's homophobia was nothing extraordinary, and your boy Crowder is a liar who isn't right about anything.
Or maybe the thing I take issue with is that people lie about Che Guevara in a weak attempt to fabricate leftist hypocrisy. It’s called nuance buddy, things are almost never that black and white.
@@johnlove2954 So by your logic, were the founding fathers "low IQ tools" then for being homophobic and racist? Funny how you only use this "they were men of their time" argument when it applies to people you like. Crowder demonstrably lied about (1) Che "frequently" using a gay slur (2) attributing state sanctioned homophobia of Cuba to Che when he wasn't even in Cuba (3) Che being extremely racist, when there was no evidence of him actually being racist aside from the early part of his life. I missed a few others, but I don't have the time to watch the entire video again just for you. Also why won't Crowder's daddy allow him to debate Sam Seder?
@@johnlove2954 People today who are homophobic and racist are generally "low IQ fools" because society has progressed to the point where smart, educated people understand those attitudes are irrational. No one is making special exceptions for Che, because Che's attitudes on this particular issue were perfectly normal, and the good he did vastly outweighs them. Unlike you drooling reactionary morons people on the left don't blindly worship our faves without criticism. Even liberals were immensely more critical of Obama than conservatives are of Trump. But I digress.
(1) Chalking it up to the source simply being wrong assumes that Crowder is a fucking idiot who doesn't know how to do basic research. But I actually have a higher opinion of Crowder's intelligence than you do, and I can provide you multiple instances of him unquestionably lying. Here is a very obvious one twitter.com/socioEqualiser/status/1177838960032337921
(2) This is a stupid argument. Just because he helped found the communist government of Cuba doesn't mean he is responsible for everything the government did. You are now shifting the goal posts from "Che was a rabid homophobe" to "Che didn't speak out against homophobia enough." Pathetic and dishonest. Also again with another founding fathers analogy; if you tie Che's alleged homophobia to serving in the Cuban government, then you have to condemn all of the founding fathers for allowing slavery to exist. But something tells me that you don't like the implication of that assessment ;)
(3) You sound like a triggered sjw reading race into everything. He didn't say the Congolese were dumb, he said the soldiers he served with in the Congo were incompetent fighters (again, without expressing that view about black Cubans). Many leftists similarly criticize the anarchist militias in the Spanish civil war as undisciplined. Does that make non-anarchists racist against Spaniards? Of course not.
Crowder complained on Joe Rogan that he can't get leftists to debate him. So why does Crowder waste his time with college kids when he could be debating his counterparts on the left who actually talk about politics for a living like him? Is it because cold feet Crowder knows that he would get destroyed? We got the receipts now. Fact: Crowder chickened out of a debate with Sam Seder, just like he chickened out of his debate with Potholer. Your emperor wears no clothes.
Steven crowder saying Che is racist based off of a diary entry from when he was a younger guy is legit just the old fashioned version of cancelling someone for a 10 year old tweet before they matured into the person they are today which I’m CERTAIN he would despise
They complain about cancel culture.
Che Gue really was vocal about problems or capitalism and such he included racism and homophobia
"Che Goovera" - Stephen Crowder, 2019
Horricule funny how these right wingers have so much trouble pronouncing Spanish names right
@@Zhicano
Trump said that one official should
"Set an exsample by speaking English"
Most Right-Wingers on average speak 1 language only.
@Krónika
I know. That's the problem. In Europe people are more likely to be bilingual.
@Krónika
Still as a matter of learning bieng able to speak more then one language is crucial.
Knowing only one language automatically restrains you from large parts of the wider world
@Krónika
I'm not even European. I live in Africa and we speak multiple languages too.
South African here. Did not know Ché opposed apartheid. Thanks for giving me more reasons to like him.
So did Fidel
Natascha Visser That’s why Cuba sent troops to Angola.
First country Mandela visited officially was Cuba. Massive love in with Fidel.
Cuba was the only country outside of Africa to openly send troops to fight against the apartheid regime.
@Doom Wolf Considering that both places were getting ruined by Great Britain, they had a unique solidarity between them that went past racial boundaries.
Basically, the Irish and black South Africans fucking hated Britain.
Didn't Fidel Castro admit that he "failed gay Cubans" later in his life?
Yes and Cuba legalized homosexuality in 1972
Smoke.Jaguar That’s only 5 years after the US. It’s almost as if everyone was homophobic for a time. I don’t doubt that both of them today would be in support of LGBT rights.
@@rust44 Uh, honosexuality wasn't legalized in America until 2003, meaning Cuba did it about 30 years *before* the US. That is not to say some states in the US didn't have legalized gay relationships sooner I'm simply unfamiliar with the topic on that level, but on the federal level it was 2003.
@@McHobotheBobo Homosexuality and Gay Marriage are not considered the same in the legal sense.
Before 1967, the problem wasn't just that you couldn't get married to someone of the same sex. It was that you would be arrested and sent to a Mental Asylum just for having a sexual relationship with the same sex.
The latter is what was decriminalized first.
Didn't you watch the video?
How can Crowder be wrong straight off the bat by thinking Che Guevara was a leader of a country.
Unpacking the layers of wrong
Che was literally the representation of failed revolutions next to Guy Fawkes
@@GA-gd3wi today cubans are starving 😆
@@yeelanma9165 except they have the highest calory intake in the region, and have a lower malnourishment rate than the US
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby live in Denial
che guevara stole my gay horses and demolished my gay house.
che guevara stole my gay lunch money and my gay homework
@@pilarm.a.5976 plot twist, Che Guevara was my gay husband and that's how he got my horses and house in our gay divorce
Goddammit why am I only finding this channel now.
Che Guevara stole my gay slaves and my gay sugar cane farms, hes is such a bad guy!!!
All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put back Humpty Dumpty back together again…
because Che Guevara stole them for the Socialist Liberation Army! 🤣Z🤣
Anyone who grows up and says "Hey I used to be racist, I was stupid, I realized I was stupid, so I stopped." Is already beyond what most people are capable of. Not that the bar is very high, but still, admitting your wrongs requires a level of humility most just can't and won't reach.
So wait.... They only homophobic quote from him is one where he says he likes a gay man? And was upset that he got beat up?
Yeah he wasn't a gay rights activist or much of an ally. But he wasn't any more homophobic then literally everybody at the time. I've seen TH-cam videos about gay people in sitcoms and this would fit right in with the stuff that was very progressive for it's time that we'd now feel like wasn't very much at all. If the sitcom man who's learning that someone he likes is gay and is willing to look past that.
@transylvanian that's what I was thinking. In the context of the quote, I don't think you can really even say it's 100% homophobic, because who knows if he was referring to his sexuality, or his actual disposition. He could very well have been a "sexual pervert" beyond the fact that his sexuality isn't the norm.
@@thepossessor Yes, and people always use (and know) the dictionary definition. Never ever in the history of mankind have people fucked around with friends and gave them negative nicknames while meaning well, and never ever was hyperbole a word. Non literal meaning, absolutely a non possibility no matter the context; this is just how humans work.
@@louisvictor3473 People literally call themselves perverts in a positive context ("I'm a bit of a pervert~"), so honestly it isn't far fetched.
If the right-wing criticizes anyone for bigotry against minorities, that should be an immediate radar beep for bullshit
@@B727X love the name, sounds soyboy enough
...u saw my name
Stephen Crowder calling Che Guevara a homophobe is so funny to me
Steven, not Stephen
@@calundoconteal6851 I don't know that he hates them, I just don't think he likes them. He was also apparently demonetized for a time for harassing a gay journalist with more than a few slurs so again I'm not sure it's 100% jokes. I know that's his sense of humor though, very Call of Duty 2008, so it's difficult to tell.
He is proudly 🇨🇺 🇨🇺 🇨🇺 🇨🇺 🇨🇺
@@terrorgaming459 cringe af
@Hasan Piker "If you're explaining, you're losing".
God the rhetoric is fun to engage with when you know they're only reaching for their audience.
The quote doesn't even say that he's a pervert for being gay, just that he's a pervert. I know many LGBTQ+ *individuals* who can be described as perverts, and I'm a member of the community lol.
Plus you think that the average homophobe in the 1950s would hate a person they thought was gay, right? In the quote he says "apart from him being a pervert and a bore, *we liked him."*
@@ewee2568 It could be that he was using the word 'pervert' in its purest sense ('regarded as abnormal or unacceptable') rather than as a moral judgment or slur. He was, after all, an intellectual -- the nuances are sometimes lost when interpreted by the less informed.
I'm like the biggest pervert and don't have a prob with anyone calling me that unless it's in a hateful way. Che complimented the guy by saying he liked him. He was prolly just a bit rowdy so che referred to him as a sexual perv... hyper sexual... in your face with his sexuality... maybe something like that? Who knows. It's prolly not a big deal. But what do I know? Big brain crowder says he's a massive homophobe a hole so I guess he must be end of story case closed lol
Also back then wording things was harder to make sound less offensive. I think he was just trying to be descriptive and maybe came off sounding kinda homophobic on accident. Big whoop lol well meaning caring people slip up like that all of the time today. Being accidently racist or homophobic without even realizing it at first is a thing... It CAN happen.
@@mollymalone5545or he couldn't have he could have litteraly been calling him a perv for being gay still as a queer person I still appreciate all the things he's done for global revolution but we don't need to nuance our way otta someone being homiphobic .
@@yassine8935 I thought he wrote that when he was younger,I know it’s a shitty thing to write but he changed as he got older If I’ve been informed correctly.
Please feel free to inform me though if I’m wrong I’ve been studying che Guevara from multiple angles and sources because I can’t really get a good angle on him morally though it seems like he started good ended grey?….tbh even after a good few hours over a few weeks he’s a little complicated
Liberals short circuit when you have a nuanced view of Cuba. "Yes, Castro and Che were far from perfect. But compare Cuba to America's client states in the Caribbean like the Dominican Republic. At the very least, Cuba provides healthcare and education to its people." You'll be met with scorn for this line of thinking. I wish libs were able to separate the wheat from the chaff AND assess the vicious role of capital in the authoritarian turn of many self-styled socialist states.
Very true. Also "but people left Cuba to come to the US and receive US residency and legal rights, therefore Communism=bad". It's not like anybody ever left a theoretical capitalist Mexico or Dominican Republic to unblock toilets for less than the minimum wage, with no clear path to legal status...
Another example of bad things in the capitalist system being "just how things are" and not representative of the system as a whole.
@@gyorkshire257 Or Chile under Pinochet.
You can't be conservative
@@JustinElliott1 If you mean OPRAHRULZ, no, they appear to be a leftist. If you're confused by their criticism of liberals, consider that most leftists use the word "liberal" in its original sense (the way political scientists also tend to use it), to refer to the entire spectrum from center-right to center-left.
@PringlesKing William As opposed to our perfectly fine Prussian style education system that isnt propaganda at all? Give me a break.
Oh man, I've been waiting for this for ages! :D
I actually have to assume that much of this desire to paint Guevara this way (at least by the likes of Crowder and Dennis Prager) is a deflection. "You can't criticize us for our racism and homophobia if one of yours was one too". I genuinely believe that's about where their own moral compasses are. It's not wrong if the other guy does it too.
No. I think they ignore the repeated insults. The whole thing about che Guevara is the right wing doesnt like communist, obviously.
@@BigMac4459 Yeah, I agree that factors into it too. But I just see this same sort of "gotcha" game play out over and over again. Especially on Prager U. "Oh yeah? You think that's so great? Well, they're as bad as we are! So Capitalist Conservatism wins!"
@@johnlove2954 "one of mine" in this context means someone of similar political affiliations. No group is really a hive mind, but a collection of individuals. If "one of mine" had a background of racism, you bet I'd call it out.
@@johnlove2954 The premise of the video was that Crowder and Prager U have to lie and manipulate the truth by leaving out context in order to paint Guevara as homophobic and racist.
If he were those things, and everything the two above said were true, then of course it wouldn't be wrong to call him out, or to point that out to people who weren't aware of it. (On it's face. It would certainly still be hypocritical of Crowder - but appeal to hypocrisy is a poor argument) But they're not. The issue isn't with the calling out. It's with the dishonesty.
@@johnlove2954 This is a lot of putting words into people's mouths and what I assume amounts to a lot of projection.
Che calling a gay man a "sexual pervert" is homophobic. It's equally bad, and the fact that nearly every straight man of his time would have agreed does not make it "OK". If he were alive today, I would not support those statements, would hope he'd retract them. If he didn't, that would not be "OK" with me. Crowder's homophobia is pretty self-evident. And of course that makes it hypocritical of him to act as if homophobia is a bad thing, UNLESS it's of the mindset of "well I guess it's ok because you do it too".
Would Guevara have supported Castro's camp system? I don't know. That's the point. He wasn't there to take part in it. If you can find a primary source where he says "I sure wish I was in Cuba so I could put the gays in camps like Castro is", then bring it back here because I'm sure BadEmpanada, as well as myself, would be quick to change our tunes and condemn him for it. But you can't condemn a man for something there's no proof of. THAT is what the "guilt by association" logical fallacy actually entails. That people are guilty of specific actions because their associates are guilty of them without direct proof.
Also: yes, context matters re the Congolese soldiers? A blanket statement of "Congolese people are dumb" is a racist (or ethnically prejudice) statement, regardless of who says it. "These specific soldier I'm working with are incompetent" requires greater context to form an opinion about. Once again, find a primary source where Guevara adds something like "and it's because they're conoglese, unlike afro-cubans who are the good ones" and I'll immediately condemn him for it as being racist.
Meanwhile, if Crowder was as right as you believe, I don't think he would need to resort to relying on things that are downright falsehoods - which you did not address.
Thing is, I'm queer myself, and even that part that Che wrote didn't come off as *necessarily* homophobic to me. It could be, but it also came with the additional information that they knew this guy. They also describe him as a drunkard, a lot of drunkards can be lecherous due to their lack of inhibition which will sometimes lead to harassment. I'm not defending any homophobic sentiment here, but to me it sounded like Che could've said he's a pervert regardless of being gay. Also the ''yell and insult people'' part kinda indicates this as well. If Che had said other things to suggest a prejudice towards gay people then maybe that would give a more damning context. But if this is indeed the only thing to show Che as homophobic, then I'd say it's pretty weak.
I mean it might suggest a prejudice against gay people if he weren't as consistently repressing straight people who display a similar level of drunkenness and/or lechery. But that's like, such a minor kind of homophobia given how homophobic everyone else was in the time period
@@pestoriusj True I guess, but it also comes with the conjecture that this represented all of his views and attitudes constantly throughout his whole lifetime, and there's something sad about that in my opinion. That we assume people are incapable of change, or growth or redemption. So I try to avoid that conjecture for the sake of the living.
In Latin America we STILL have a really "Macho" centred culture, so I can't imagine how bad it was back then.
@@marcomartinezcolmenares1551 I know exactly what you mean. I'm Spanish, and I am 99 percent sure of where Latin America got it from. Personally I have not experienced a lot of it, but the things my mother have had to endure over the years is honestly shameful in this day and age.
Plus like it really was a different time. People talked about sexuality differently. My dad said when he was a kid he didn't know what gay was and they (people in his community) didn't even have a word for it.
The Che quote doesn't sound great but i don't think there's enough context to make a lot of claims about what he actually thought or what meanings he attributed to the words he used
Imagine being a revolutionary icon to the degree where people have to smear you 60 years after your death… crazy.
Yeah I don’t get why people do that with hitler….
@@Cognitoman how is that related
The more I learn about Cuba, the more I realize that it is really fucking cool.
You should go there. See if you can bring some aspirin. I hear it's very valuable as it is rare and in high demand.
As a socialist calling a country cool is not in line with what we believe but ok. Continue reading.
@@agstinacueva1673 wait wtf. Why not? Wtf
Yeah so cool that everybody is trying to leave it 🤣🤣🤣
@@chosengod5943 You ever taken the time to look into why? Pretty quickly you’ll realize it isn’t Cuba that’s making them want to leave.
Tbh, I think you're a GOOD empanada.
Thinking of gay people as "sexual perverts" was the default belief during the 1950-60s everyone thought and said that. I don't get why this is shocking.
@@crispychicken11037 Also the way folks talked back then was always more offensive sounding just because they didn't have better wording to show more sensitivity and restraint to not offend. Higher chance of sounding offensive back in the day is my point. Even folks today say the wrong thing on accident even though they meant well. And some folks believe the dumb evil thing until someone sets them str8 about the issue. Often doesn't mean a person is a monster just because they are a lil ignorant and need to be brought up to speed and or deprogramed a lil bit. Some of us are raised by racist red necks. That sux lol and we should help deprogram that nonsense. Not just label them monsters who should always be treated poorly. Although some of these racist clowns are pretty stubborn and annoying lol ngl...
A man who has done a bad thing and wants to make amends can be a man who does great things for others as he knows how to keep others from making his mistakes.
Adding context about young Che's racism, the fact that he's specifically talking about Black people vs Portuguese suggests to me that he's repeating anti-Brazilian (the main Portuguese ex-colony in America) xenophobic sentiments present in Argentina. Argentinians to this day sometimes spout crap about how Brazil is bad because it's "full of blacks" and are proud of how much whiter and European their own country is. The stereotypes about the "three races" (indigenous, black and european) were prevalent in Latin American scholarship for a long time. So I'm not surprised he, coming from a privileged background, repeated that uncritically until reality forced him to learn.
You can’t be serious
Wasn't Che a racist, now enjoy this listicle about 12 reasons why police brutality is black people's own fault, uwu
Pls
Someone who uses "uwu" can never been taken seriously
Yet they love the founding fathers who owned slaves. The conservative mind is an interesting place.
They love the founding father *because* they owned slaves.
And also were genocidalists and, as landed property owners, thieves and proto-fascists responsible for creating a state and society built around the acquisition and inheritance of private property.
@@riley8385 nah they love the founding fathers because they formed the usa and wrote the constitution. Come on bro dont be stupid
John Roberts lmao.Capitalists do what’s ever profitable and don’t really have loyalty to their nation.How can they be fascists
Really why do people say things like this? History isn’t this black and white, saying that because a historical figure did something now seen as terrible but not in the context of that time means that everything they did needs to be erased is absurd!
Just mentioning Paul Robeson in passing, you should do a video on his activism, art, and fight against the Red Scare. The Feds did so much to erase him from the public, and you're the first breadtuber I've heard mention him. Great vid
Breadtube and lefttube have become a bit interchangeable
@Krónika and he's got the hashtag in the description right up there ^
It makes me angry, sad and embarrassed that for 50+ years of my life I just accepted things thinking the msm were a bastion of honest and fair reporting. Talk about living with blinders on. You have an amazing channel.
Happy you awake now comrade! Get learning about socialism you will see how much lies capitalist societies told you especially in North America
Don’t feel bad, we’re happy you’re with us! Took me 30+ years myself.
There is big difference between msm today and 50+ years ago and big difference between right wing and left wing (or even CeNtRisT). I find a lot of MSM today, while not being 100% accurate to be rather decent. Reuters, Associated Press, Al Jazeera, DW are pretty decent.
@@KooolesReuters, AP, and Al Jazeera still post pro empire propaganda
"He was an introvert and was probably gay, too."
"This episode bothered us, because apart from him being a sexual pervert and a bore, we liked him."
I don't know if I would count this as a homophobic statement, because we don't know what he was saying or doing so he may have been sexually harassing the other party goers. While not even touching the fact that in the fifities that's a very nice way to refer to a gay man, especially because they may not have had the words to describe him in a nice way at the time.
This was my actual thought when I read the book.
Speaking as a gay man, the idea that somebody should be condemned because he wrote something slightly homophobic in fucking 1952 disgusts me so much.
@@Max-nt5zsthat was also cool though
@@LiarJudas666”violent people are cool when they hurt people I don’t like”
Every socialist ever
@@Jdjdjdujakzgsha Yes.
@@Jdjdjdujakzgshayes, hurting slavers is cool
@@Jdjdjdujakzgsha You really don't understand the difference between starving slaves and slavers?
Great video. I learned a lot
@@itisprofile Gusano alert
@@itisprofile awfully informative ;)
@@itisprofile wow thanks so much for your insight, and credible evidence to explain your stance
You were brainwashed alot *
@@leowalzim5518what?
Who else is also moved by the research that showed that Che didn't state he liked his mate dulce?
What?
@@trentrubenacker9718 15:59 reference
I'm 70% sure there's a passage in motorcycle diaries that mentions it, but I'm far too lazy to check
@@BadEmpanada your researching skills have proven priceless yet again
@@emersonpage5384 (maybe I'm a little [too] drunk to write this but) I think, after watching this video, Che would be the type of guy that would slurp mate dulce if that would lead to an 'united left'.
Edit: You did good mentioning Fidel's words about the mistreatment of gay people. It seems he felt terrible about it given that he made Cuba a great place for the LGBTQIA+ community. If Che was homophobic, he didn't let it come into things he did. If Castro was, he changed his position.
If I am blamed for something that happens 13 years after my death, that's a bit more power than I probably have.
Is Steven Chowder calling Che a homophobe virtusignalling?
Man this was amazing. Thank you. I had come across those claims too, and unfortunately I didn't further research them and assumed that they were true because a lot of people were like that back then.
Palestinian and a leftist. You're like me 😳
@@johan4593 ❤
Are u Muslim and a leftist? 🧐🤔
I learned a lot from this, thanks for educating me on the topic and laying a smack down on crowder and prager u ✊🏻
Yeah Prager U and Crowder are pretty much toxic garbage
Amazing job setting the record straight on Che! This complements your other Che video well! Sharing this!
Really well researched video, well done. Will definitely be passing this video on to friends and acquaintances if the subject ever comes up.
Yo.
I just want to say yout channel is great.
I grew up in an American evangelical environment. My father is a literal Southern baptist preacher.
My first exposure to leftism was through Liberation theogy which has its roots in Latinx environments and it super exciring to see it discussed through a lens that while i have am affection for i am quite distant from.
Sincerely,
somedipshit
Irish American
Please don't use Latinx, at least use something like Latine or Latin@. Latinx was made by english speakers with a white savior complex trying to 'fix' our language.
@@GiubileiFernando Okay. I will
Words have power and cost nothing.
@bbonner422 my irps friends have the poster of that mural as standard home decoration, right along with James Connolly
Fernando Giubilei the term has been widely appropriated by Chicano groups in the US and originated from the internet all the way back around 2004, so I don’t know where you came to that conclusion. If there’s anything to criticize about the comment it’s that it’s used incorrectly, as Latinx is mainly used to refer to people within the lgbt community.
@bbonner422 that's cool
Daily reminder that Castro took responsibility for the camps in 2010 and paid out reparations. That doesn't instantly make it right, but it does show a willingness to do better
Stephen Crowder must be confusing Che Guevara with Donald Trump as a homophobic racust.
👍
You have a new subscriber. You're videos are well researched and informative with great production value. As an out gay man from the 60's and 70's I appreciate your work. Thank-you.
It's funny because people hate him without even knowing anything about his history, their "arguments" to hate him aren't even true.
I have a Che tattoo and I serve in the US Military. No one really says anything to me now, but I had an issue a few years back when someone tried to say Che was an extremist and a terrorist. I replied with pointing out that they did not have the same issue with people who have Confederate Flag tattoos or people that say Obama was not an American.
I have no need, no desire to argue with people who aren't interested in primary sources and critical thought anymore. I thank this video for that. I used to ruin many good times arguing with people who just spout stupid shit at bars and parties that I know are untrue, out of context or at the very least more nuanced than they care to consider.
glad i found your channel. you seem really chill, with high production quality and interesting topics.i also love me some crowder and pragerU bashing .
He was born in Argentina, he fought for Cuba, Congo, Bolivia, Guatemala and his was a racist... He was a good, honorable, romantic, clever and stubborn man he always has been and always be. Hasta la victoria siempre.
the usage of the term "homosexuals" really stands out. normally people just say "gay" especially younger people. even formally. the vast majority of people who say "homosexuals" are homophobic.
Or like really old and out-of-touch people
The excerpt from Che's Diary was written in 1952, almost nobody in Argentina knew the term "gay" at the time, which incidentally, at that time was not yet synonymous with same-sex attracted people, it was also used to simply describe a happy person, and even today in Latin America the term "homosexual" is used without any offensive intent
@@sofiasilpacheco5423 I’m talking about the modern use of it by PragerU not Che’s use of it
@@themacintoshnerd Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about Che!👍
With the sexual pervert quote, it's not necessarily homophobic. Depending on how you read it he could be saying that he's a sexual pervert, unrelated to him being gay. Unlikely perhaps, but still plausible and thus the single homophobic quote Che ever wrote is disputable
If the poor man was drunk, there's the possibility that he might have had some kind of behavior that could be labeled as a perv behavior, independently of his gender orientation.
13:49 Also, as an Argentinian, we curse a lot and have a potty mouth, calling a guy you like a sexual pervert is no more insult than saying someone is a "horndog" or a "player", he could have even used degenerate and it would have been a milder term than it is for North American culture. I'd argue, for contrast, that degenerate seems to be an even harsher term in English but a very milder term than pervert in Argentinian Spanish.
El mate dulce es anti-revolucionario.
Just hearing "mate dulce" sends shivers down my spine.
Amigo, La posta.
What is that about sharing the mate? IT'S COMMUNIST!
Quejarse del mate dulce es de porteño clasista.
LOVE the research done for this video! Amazing. Great info and learned a lot.
I consider myself right wing but more importantly I consider myself someone that values the truth, and doesn’t just parrot talking points. Videos like these that are objective and meticulously researched are always helpful
Hang on, there's no way PragerU and Crowder would lie about this, there must be some mistake!
😏
i want to say a huge thank you the person that makes the subtitles!
what contry ar you from
Dude, I love your videos. Greetings from Mexico.
Its actually crazy and disgusting how much fake propaganda is out there about Che. I grew up with a father who always talked about him and looked up to him, along with Malcolm X and Zapata. I mean literally my dad always wore a Che hat and hoodie lol.
Thank you so much for these videos! Your extensive research is appreciated, I hope to educate and correct more people about Che.
Seriously it is actually crazy. I assumed at first it was one of those things where the famous historical figure had skeletons in his closet but couldn't believe that every single claim made against him was false beyond him being a revolutionary. It seems like the majority of the internet is in an echo chamber that believes all of it is true without a second thought so it is refreshing to find a video actually dispelling the lies.
Thank you so much!! I have read two biographies and have always revered Che. No man is perfect, but THANK YOU for this so I have a link for people who call me misinformed or stupid~ people who actually know NOTHING about Che. This is a perfect video to reply to all these ridiculous assertions coming out lately about how “evil” he was.
Yeeeaaahhh didn’t Crowder make a video claiming the crusades were defensive?? I wouldn’t trust his observations on history lol
The crusades were a series of religious wars promoted by the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. These military campaigns had the declared objective of recovering for Christianity the region of the Near East known as the Holy Land, which was under the rule of Islam.
@@oscard.fernandezj.3096 thats not defensive
It depends on what you mean by defending.
@@oscard.fernandezj.3096 to reclaim the holy land is not to deffend it also it was a hly land for muslims too
Islam was expansionist until Kahlenberg's defeat.
Thank you for this video. You make me want to read up on Che Guevara. Maybe check out that biography of him. Love your videos.
Great video! I was on the fence on el Che since I heard he drank mate dulce, but thankfully you proved me wrong!
But even that statement isn't homophobic. It isn't an insult. He just meant that the man's sexuality wasn't the statistical norm.
Che is a hero✊ he was NOT a racist. May the revolution forever live through his memory
Hasta la victoria siempre
Sometimes the algorithm provides me with some really good content. This video for example. Good job!
I was recently involved in a discussion about racism with some alt-right dipshit and out of nowhere they brought up the exact talking points you mentioned by Crowder and PragerU. I had already done some reading on Guevara prior so I knew it was probably bullshit, but I didn't have the amount of evidence you brought up here. Now I know where to link people if that crap ever comes up in conversation again!
Bad Empanada . Your content is like a breath of fresh air . Thank you for attending to details , fact checking, contextualizing and for being honest.
Nicolás Marquez usa la palabra "sodomita" para referirse a los hombres homosexuales en su libro, es totalmente hipócrita que acuse a alguien más de homofobia
crowder doesn't even know how to say "gevara" properly
Thanks so much for this! I was in a discussion with some Internet strangers about Che Guevara, and someone made the claim that he would have executed people for being gay. I tried to look into this claim, found nothing about it on his Wikipedia page, kept looking, and found several articles that made this sort of claim, that he was homophobic, but all of them seem to be right-wing articles with no sources cited, written by authors with no apparent credentials, or otherwise the only source they DO cite for that claim is going back to another right-wing article with no sources and a creepy right-wing author. This is an excellent review of the evidence!
Okay, this cleared up a lot of my misconceptions about Che; great, well researched video. And a mea culpa from myself.
(As a caveat and in my defence none of the sources which I found the quotes I attributed to him in your last Che video were from right-wing sources--I first came across the quotes in, maybe, 2012/13 in the UK Socialist Workers Party periodical. Anyway, sincere thanks Mr. Empanada!) Lol thanks for the, uh, recognition and for having the decency to blank out my name--not that I would've minded if you hadn't, it was just a sound thing to do. Cheers!
I know this is baseless, wild speculation, but as a gay who was a closet case for many, many years - Crowder gives me the self-hating closeted 'mo vibe like mad. He just never misses an opportunity to bring it up/harp on it. And also, though not quite the same, his "any excuse to put a dress on" to ... own the trans? There's something going on there, anyway.
But also, great vid.
No. Just, no. Please stop doing the work of the G-hating left for them by wishing such horrible specimens onto the team.
@@seto749 I don't wish for anything here, just describing a vibe I get. There's a lot of dudes that are self-hating in this specific way. I've known enough of them.
I would be equally unsurprised if Crowder was just a run of the mill straight bigot, too.
(Gay hating left? Are you some kind of TERF or something?)
@@Taumpy Sorry; it should have been "the G-hating PORTION of the left"; elsewhere I'd been discussing whether a particular person should be considered on the pro-G left or the anti-G left (I specify the G because a lot of leftist straight people who like trans people or lesbians loathe us, but the Alphabet Soup terminology muddles that). I didn't intend to imply that the entire left hates us - just a large chunk of it.
It is a common tactic of G-hating leftists to hurl homophobic slurs and accusations of being closeted at right-wingers of particularly loathsome character. Thank you, therefore, for clarifying.
I am straight as an arrow and I get the same vibe from him
Noah Minteer lots of self-hating, religious closet cases get married and have kids. It’s still pretty common, although luckily for the spouses and kids less so than it used to be. And like I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was completely straight, either. Sometimes bigots aren’t self-hating closet cases. 🙂
I’m gonna guess you’re probably straight. Or at least young and/or lucky enough to not have grown up where you’d develop an eye for the type of bully that targets people like you because of something they hate in themselves.
I often think that this man hasn’t even read Che’s bio. Or even Che’s writings… Its disgusting to read a newspaper article and not a book about the actual character
Thanks B E. My youngest child has Che as a middle name because I read John Anderson's amazing biography of him at the time of my son's birth. I was lucky enough to meet Che's daughter at Reddings in Lygon st when she was out here promoting the book she published of her talks with Chavez while she was working in Venezuela with a detachment of doctors. She was thrilled that my son had Che in his name and took photos with my kids and signed a copy of motor cycle diaries addresses to my kids.
I love Che. Incorruptible. I just think he was a bit selfish to go off on more revolutions AFTER he had kids.
Regards racism, don't forget his black girlfriend in Sierra Maestra!! ... Hehe
Bad Empanada, as you may know here in Latinamerica the book of Laje and Marquez called: “El Libro Negro de La Nueva Izquierda” (in english: The Black Book of The New Left) is really popular and a lot of persons believe in what the book says, and other youtubers that makes content in spanish tried to make a review of that book but always there are the fans of Laje and Marquez make that videos full of dislikes, can you make a review of that book and exposed all the lies that are in the book?
Si hablas español y estás harto de los youtubers de derecha te recomiendo canales como Hipster Posmo y Quetzal que son muy buenos y hablan de los bulos de la derecha.
Excelent video, thank you
I never knew that Castro is a video essayist
Everyone should be required to read john lee anderson's biography, it's an excellent book and the most detailed account of guevara's life.
I agree, i just finished it and it's great
Great video comrade! I really love the switch-ups of the background music.
Great video comrade. Keep it up!!!
Huh, this is all new to me. Not surprised by all the nonsense really, Crowder is medically a prat
@@mumak333 I plucked a word from the air to make it more surreal, no offense intended 😥
@@MadeleineSwannSurreal mumak333 isn't offended. They're a sargonite peterphile pulling the same bullshit crowder is when he pretends he cares about Che supposedly being sexist and racist.
Why are you always getting the oddest replies?
@@mrbadguysan I know right?! It's not just me noticing that
Actually, after reading the full quote I would argue that Che wasn't a real homophobic by the standards of that time: he said that he actually liked this guy!
Badempanada the journalist hell yeah
Rember kids, the founding fathers owned slaves. Gotcha!
Jhon Adams, Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton were abolitionists
Remember kids, only socialist regimes prevent their population from escaping their countries with fences, walls, guns, mines and military. Gotcha!
@@nomorewar4189 People claiming that European countries are socialist is not being honest.
Every one of the 27 EU countries are capitalist regulated market economies with universal (not socialist) healthcare and pension care invented by Colbert and made universal by Otto von Bismarck.
Google list of socialist states on wikipedia and you will find a lot of socialist and communist states but none of your "utopian" socialist societies, neither in the past and not those remaining in the present.
And the difference as a West European i witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall (the wall your ideology built to prevent people to come to us not the other way around) live on TV and later the East Europeans from socialist and from communist countries ran into Western, Southern and Northern Europe to see reality of their wealth, living standard and technology disparity for themselves.
Culture Shock and Ideology Shock guaranteed.
The economic, technological, living standard, car, food, TV, telephone, and freedom gap difference between east and west was so staggering that Germany still nowadays pays to uplift East German part of the country (former socialist "republic" of DDR).
And the last fall of socialism in Europe were when socialist regimes of Tito in Yugoslavia and Ceaucescu in Romania fell. Again the clash of societies
it was like a travel to the past (for those from the West visiting to Yugoslavia and Romania and a trip to the future for those coming from Yugoslavia and Romania to the Western European capitalist countries.
Even today to gap that socialism caused was so big that many Ex-Yugoslavian people migrate to our Western European countries.
The question you have to ask yourself : is why do socialist regimes built walls or fences or make it difficult for their people to leave their country by law, because way more people flee from socialist countries to capitalist countries than the other way around.
Even South Americans and Central Americans, all flee towards capitalist USA or our countries and not to any remaining socialist country today (Venezuela, Cuba, Laos, etc). Even you do not migrate to those socialist countries.
Instead socialists all around the world lie and pretend that we Europeans are socialist countries when every of the 27 EU countries are capitalist regulated market economies with universal (not socialist) healthcare and pension care invented by Colbert and made universal by Otto von Bismarck.
@@nomorewar4189 It is always the "sanction excuse" or the "not true socialism" excuse.
It is almost never the leaders or the socialist system or socialist ideology fault with you guys :-)
Listen to interviews or podcasts with people fleeing Cuba and Venezuela to face the harsh reality of Venezuela's and Cuba's authoritarian government, weak economy, poor food supply (a problem almost always in socialist or communist countries of the past. And even nowadays, see South American, African and Asian socialist countries and their poor food supplies).
Authoritarianism, problems of food supplies, poor diversity in food offer, behind era technology level, massive censorship and massive population surveillance and control are the underlying problems of socialism once the system is enacted nationwide on the economical and political level. Proven by history in over 65 countries in less than 120 years.
And many are still existing today.
Socialism perfectly fits the definition of insanity by Albert Einstein :
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"
Why instead of socialism (which will never work) don't you guys try advocate for something that has never been tried :
- a democratically elected technocracy where scientists, doctors and engineers are democratically elected among a pool of the very best to lead our countries with scientific facts (scientific consensus on real world topics), instead of being led by elected politicians and their political ideologies that are not scientific consensus facts but only opinions and personal world views of the politicians and their parties.
- or advocate for Jacque Fresco Project Venus resources based economy
Regulated capitalism is the best system humanity tried in the last 5000 years of recorded history, historically socialism in any form has always failed, so why if you do not like capitalism, you guys do not advocate for something new instead never tried before, instead of the failed century old socialist ideologies in any form.
Like religious cultists you were indoctrinated in socialist ideologies that will never bring your expected utopian outcome quite on the contrary as historically proven for over 100 years.
@@nomorewar4189 Socialism perfectly fits the definition of insanity by Albert Einstein :
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"
That Che quote at the UN, (the one you gave after he spoke) sounds very reminiscent of Uncle Hồ's speech on lynching, it ends very similarly.
So it sounds like he grew out of his narrow minded beliefs as he was exposed to a wider world, and an abundance of talented and varied people. Thanks for sharing this enlightening video. There's very few people who actually do a deep dive into the primary sources like you do, and its refreshing to see it.
He was def racist when younger. But it's funny how Che tore into his own imperialist, clasist and racist views (esp his machoism) from his 20s multiple times publicly and politically, but folks like humans to remain stationary in their views and hence their humanity to make weird cardboard cut outs of historical figures.
Man, id hope if i was ever famous people would bring up every indiscretion I had committed so I could be sure to work on them.
I read John Lee Anderson's book and also his diary in Africa and was expecting some racial slights when he got to Congo due to the 20s stuff but then it was simply coz I thought he'd retain some form of bigotry like we all do, but he didnt. I gave him no leeway re this but he simply was extremely consistent re his views and actions after the revolution. Satre called him the 'most complete human of our age' and tbh I can see why... he sorted his most bigoted elements out and exposed himself and his journey at every turn.
If folks are interested why he was so revered, it really WAS his character and committment... I can't think of many other bios ive read where I felt inspired to be operating on the level he was.
Great video my dude. Sent it to multiple people I know who have terribly wrong ideas about che.
The only bad part of this video is having to hear Steven Crowder's voice so much
I have only ever had an extremely basic idea of who Che Guevara was throughout my life. Revolutionary, Guerrilla fighter, leftist icon, and socialist would be the most I would be able to really say about him with any amount of confidence and even some of those descriptions I'm sure are not completely perfect. Hell I would have probably even said that he was Cuban unless it was a multiple choice question and happened to remember that he wasn't when I saw Argentinian as an option. So when I saw this video I decided to watch it because, while there was every possibility that my ignorance on the subject of Che Guevara meant that I was simply incorrect, every rational thought in my head was quite certain that the notion of him being a Homophobic Racist was definitely incorrect or at most was something being exaggerated.
So thank you very much Sir for a well done video that gave me a better understanding of Che and who he was and also for providing sources. I came here to check my ignorance on a subject and I got a quick education while enjoying one of my favorite things to watch on TH-cam, yet another person demonstrating how simple it is to expose Crowder and PragerU for the worthless asshats that they are LOL.
On another note, does anyone else remember those commercials telling people it’s not cool to use gay as an insult???
I'm discovering this channel this week and I really like how unpolished it is. What the author lacks in flashy preservation presentation, he makes up for in research and nuance. I line it
Ay getting love from the majority report crew!! Glad to see it!
Dope video, these two videos on Che have been educational.
I'm gonna look into this some more. Seems like a interesting fella.
18:40 what's more depressing is that Rubio is a Senator, not just a Representative. He doesn't just represent some wacko right wing district, he represents the entire state of Florida
That's half of florida in a nutshell.
How do you only have 8000 subs?! A great video, comrade!
i have a sudden boost in respect for che guevara
edit: I just watched through the video and not only did he prove che guevara was a good person but he also proved that fidel castro is more self accountable than US leaders and eventually turned his ideology about gay people around XD
Very informative. Thank you.
Who wasn't homophobic and racist back then
My grandma