“Eventually your head and ass get wired together .” Best line ever. 😂 I moved to the Kakwa 40 from the Zpacks Arc packs and there was definitely more air flow in that arc system. I get sweatier now, but I don’t think it’s going to be a deal breaker for me because the trade-off is the Kakwa 40 carries my load weight better than the Zpacks did. I’m not ultralight, but I’m also not exceeding either pack’s claimed capacity. For two packs in the sub-2lb range, the aluminum inverted U frame of the Durston is just superior to the carbon fiber stays that are in the Zpacks IF you’re not actually ultralight. IMHO. And that’s fine. I think each pack serves a different subset of backpackers. But the claimed load capacity on the Zpacks arc system should probably be lower I think.
I have run into other hikers having problems with the arc stays. Zpacks would take care of it under warranty, but not something I would want to deal with on trail. Like you mention, the problem could be over stressing the system. I've also talked to hikers that love that system. Whatever works, right? Keep Smilin'
@@packtoter Yep. Every person is different. The Zpacks actually worked really well for me for awhile but I'm pretty sure I experienced what they call "torso collapse" with that pack last season. It became really uncomfortable, but I did get a few good years of use out of it.
what would you say is an "ideal" load weight and perhaps the "max" for the Arc vs the kakwa? looking at both, base weight is around 15lb fully packed out weight would be 30 ish. thanks for your time.
@@cmason87 Not sure if you're asking Packtoter or me, but I would say both packs could carry 30 pounds fairly easily. Over an extended amount of time, though, I think the Durston would fare better. The Durston, imho, handles more weight better than the Zpacks Arc Haul in the long term. Just my own personal experience, though. Take it fwiw. On paper, I think the Zpacks Arc Haul is rated for up to 40lbs and the Durston up to 45lbs.
@@lovedogsontheloosethank you! and yes I was asking you. and I don't think it's just you. Zpacks is somewhat local going to see if it's possible to try out one loaded up before buying. thanks again.
All good points. Most packs and most pack-irritants arise from the box-shape of the pack. Framed-packs often attempt to match the ∫-shape of one's back with curved-stays or frames, but often the pack-fabric remains sewn into a rectangular box shape. Being predisposed to making gear, almost MYoG'd a curved backpack to try to solve the ∫-shape issue by sewing-in a curve. That is until discovering LiteAF. They had the same idea. LiteAF sews-in the ∫-shape curve to the pack, thus solving most of the comfort and fit issues. The second question raised has to do with weight-capacity. (more...) Weight-capacity is enhanced by transferring load from upper-pack to waist-belt - normally by using the lightest dead-weight frame possible. However, there is another, arguably better way to transfer loads without using a frame and that is by rolling gear into longer, thinner objects. Instead of an 11" x 8" tent, roll it into 25" x 3". Instead of folding an air-pad before rolling (which creases the pad badly), roll it without folding (e.g. 26 x 2"). With most everything rolled into long/thin shapes and stacked vertically, side-by-side, weight is transferred to the hip-belt without a frame. And adding zero-grams to carry-weight. Added benefit of gaining access to most items without unpacking the whole pack, since items are now side-by-side, instead of stacked one-upon-the-other. This author routinely carries 32+ pounds on long food/water carries without loading the shoulders (base-weight is 15-ish lbs, just like yours). In fact, the standard test of leaning slightly to accomplish zero-weight on shoulders is virtually always performed before heading-out from resupply. Enabled simply by rolling long/thin items, rather than short/fat items. This author's experience is that frames almost always cause more problems than they solve. They dig into hot-spots, cause excessive pack-wear and generally don't fit the natural ∫-shape of one's back. : )
A lot of good and interesting points. I have no experience with frameless packs. I did own one of the first packs designed with a frame shaped like the spine. I bought it from legendary archer Fred Bear. Not sure how long he manufactured the pack. I bought one of his first from him in 1971. Used it for almost 30 years. Light, thin, external, aluminum frame. Finally parts out on me in 1999 while hiking the CDT. Thanks for the food for thoughts. Keep Smilin'
@@packtoter What?!??? You KNEW Fred Bear??? I might need to hear more about this.... :) Archery has been a huge part of my life since I was old enough to hold a bow. I own a 1967 Fred Bear Polar recurve. My dad taught traditional archery many years ago and still shoots, makes his own bows, etc. Very cool to hear you mention Fred Bear's name.
Never saw this post from 9 months ago. Still haven't figured out comments. Some show up and some don't. Anyway, Fred Bear was an interesting guy and very friendly. His factory was only 50 miles from me and when I got out of the Marines I had a little money burning a hole in my pocket when I found out he designed this pack, which was way ahead of its time. I just had to have one. Used it for 30 years. Keep Smilin'
Have you thought about making the Kakwa backpack waterproof by seal sealing it? Would be a good video idea.. of course it would probably add an once to the pack though.
Not sure where you see duct tape. I have it on my shoulder strap where it holds my hydration clips on, which I use to hold my umbrella in place. Other than than I did put a couple small pieces of Gorilla tape on the bottlom where I am getting some wear from the frame struts. This is just precautionary maintenance so it doesn't keep wearing on the Ultra 200. If I am missing something, let me know. Keep Smilin'
I went to the Kakwa 55 from the REI Flash, and while lighter and just as comfortable, as the Flash the Kakwa feels warmer and is sweatier on my back by a noticeable margin. That said, every pack I’ve owned has made my back sweat.
My Kwaka pack is still somewhere between Ohio and Australia. Only been two weeks so far so mustn't grumble. If it ever arrives I'll be looking forward to the 500 odd grams it saves me over the Osprey I am currently using. I will say, if anyone is looking for a pack with amazing back ventilation, the Osprey packs are hard to beat. It's all about shaving off grams where possible though for me. My dog is teaching me how to sweat through my paws and nose anyway so problem solved.
I sweat getting up in the morning so to me all packs I have results in a wet back. As far as padding in the Kakwa, maybe it is the way I pack it but I never notice any issues. Love carrying it.
this is fantastic stuff and what you miss from the "influencer" youtube channels regarding hiking/gear instant sub.
agreed
“Eventually your head and ass get wired together .” Best line ever. 😂
I moved to the Kakwa 40 from the Zpacks Arc packs and there was definitely more air flow in that arc system. I get sweatier now, but I don’t think it’s going to be a deal breaker for me because the trade-off is the Kakwa 40 carries my load weight better than the Zpacks did. I’m not ultralight, but I’m also not exceeding either pack’s claimed capacity. For two packs in the sub-2lb range, the aluminum inverted U frame of the Durston is just superior to the carbon fiber stays that are in the Zpacks IF you’re not actually ultralight. IMHO. And that’s fine. I think each pack serves a different subset of backpackers. But the claimed load capacity on the Zpacks arc system should probably be lower I think.
I have run into other hikers having problems with the arc stays. Zpacks would take care of it under warranty, but not something I would want to deal with on trail. Like you mention, the problem could be over stressing the system. I've also talked to hikers that love that system. Whatever works, right? Keep Smilin'
@@packtoter Yep. Every person is different. The Zpacks actually worked really well for me for awhile but I'm pretty sure I experienced what they call "torso collapse" with that pack last season. It became really uncomfortable, but I did get a few good years of use out of it.
what would you say is an "ideal" load weight and perhaps the "max" for the Arc vs the kakwa? looking at both, base weight is around 15lb fully packed out weight would be 30 ish. thanks for your time.
@@cmason87 Not sure if you're asking Packtoter or me, but I would say both packs could carry 30 pounds fairly easily. Over an extended amount of time, though, I think the Durston would fare better. The Durston, imho, handles more weight better than the Zpacks Arc Haul in the long term. Just my own personal experience, though. Take it fwiw. On paper, I think the Zpacks Arc Haul is rated for up to 40lbs and the Durston up to 45lbs.
@@lovedogsontheloosethank you! and yes I was asking you. and I don't think it's just you. Zpacks is somewhat local going to see if it's possible to try out one loaded up before buying. thanks again.
All good points. Most packs and most pack-irritants arise from the box-shape of the pack. Framed-packs often attempt to match the ∫-shape of one's back with curved-stays or frames, but often the pack-fabric remains sewn into a rectangular box shape. Being predisposed to making gear, almost MYoG'd a curved backpack to try to solve the ∫-shape issue by sewing-in a curve. That is until discovering LiteAF. They had the same idea. LiteAF sews-in the ∫-shape curve to the pack, thus solving most of the comfort and fit issues. The second question raised has to do with weight-capacity. (more...)
Weight-capacity is enhanced by transferring load from upper-pack to waist-belt - normally by using the lightest dead-weight frame possible. However, there is another, arguably better way to transfer loads without using a frame and that is by rolling gear into longer, thinner objects. Instead of an 11" x 8" tent, roll it into 25" x 3". Instead of folding an air-pad before rolling (which creases the pad badly), roll it without folding (e.g. 26 x 2"). With most everything rolled into long/thin shapes and stacked vertically, side-by-side, weight is transferred to the hip-belt without a frame. And adding zero-grams to carry-weight. Added benefit of gaining access to most items without unpacking the whole pack, since items are now side-by-side, instead of stacked one-upon-the-other.
This author routinely carries 32+ pounds on long food/water carries without loading the shoulders (base-weight is 15-ish lbs, just like yours). In fact, the standard test of leaning slightly to accomplish zero-weight on shoulders is virtually always performed before heading-out from resupply. Enabled simply by rolling long/thin items, rather than short/fat items.
This author's experience is that frames almost always cause more problems than they solve. They dig into hot-spots, cause excessive pack-wear and generally don't fit the natural ∫-shape of one's back. : )
A lot of good and interesting points. I have no experience with frameless packs. I did own one of the first packs designed with a frame shaped like the spine. I bought it from legendary archer Fred Bear. Not sure how long he manufactured the pack. I bought one of his first from him in 1971. Used it for almost 30 years. Light, thin, external, aluminum frame. Finally parts out on me in 1999 while hiking the CDT.
Thanks for the food for thoughts. Keep Smilin'
@@packtoter What?!??? You KNEW Fred Bear??? I might need to hear more about this.... :) Archery has been a huge part of my life since I was old enough to hold a bow. I own a 1967 Fred Bear Polar recurve. My dad taught traditional archery many years ago and still shoots, makes his own bows, etc. Very cool to hear you mention Fred Bear's name.
really interesting, haven't heard anyone talk about that.
Never saw this post from 9 months ago. Still haven't figured out comments. Some show up and some don't. Anyway, Fred Bear was an interesting guy and very friendly. His factory was only 50 miles from me and when I got out of the Marines I had a little money burning a hole in my pocket when I found out he designed this pack, which was way ahead of its time. I just had to have one. Used it for 30 years. Keep Smilin'
Good advice😊
Keep Smilin'
Have you thought about making the Kakwa backpack waterproof by seal sealing it? Would be a good video idea.. of course it would probably add an once to the pack though.
Thanks for the videos as always. I noticed there is duct tape on the back part of the pack. I have a Kakwa 40.
Not sure where you see duct tape. I have it on my shoulder strap where it holds my hydration clips on, which I use to hold my umbrella in place. Other than than I did put a couple small pieces of Gorilla tape on the bottlom where I am getting some wear from the frame struts. This is just precautionary maintenance so it doesn't keep wearing on the Ultra 200. If I am missing something, let me know. Keep Smilin'
I went to the Kakwa 55 from the REI Flash, and while lighter and just as comfortable, as the Flash the Kakwa feels warmer and is sweatier on my back by a noticeable margin. That said, every pack I’ve owned has made my back sweat.
Yes, they all sweat. Just bought a new Kakwa 40. Keep Smilin'
My Kwaka pack is still somewhere between Ohio and Australia. Only been two weeks so far so mustn't grumble. If it ever arrives I'll be looking forward to the 500 odd grams it saves me over the Osprey I am currently using. I will say, if anyone is looking for a pack with amazing back ventilation, the Osprey packs are hard to beat. It's all about shaving off grams where possible though for me. My dog is teaching me how to sweat through my paws and nose anyway so problem solved.
I like the dog trick. Keep Smilin'
I sweat getting up in the morning so to me all packs I have results in a wet back. As far as padding in the Kakwa, maybe it is the way I pack it but I never notice any issues. Love carrying it.
Agreed. I notice little also. Maybe we just don't sweat. BUT SOMETHING sure makes me smell! Keep Smilin'