Joel, these are some great points to be aware of. I took a course on Emotional Intelligence, and my biggest take away was "how you word your concerns". Empathy is another key to communicating. We don't always, as you have clearly pointed out, have all the facts or back story. I do feel in the end it's up to us a Professional Mixers to be professional. There is always going to be times when A-Holes chime in and how we respond or not respond to this is the important thing to remember. Someone has to be the grown up. Thanks!
One thing I've learned over the last couple months learning about mixing, is that a good mix can be so many different things. There is no "right" answer. Yes you generally want clarity and balance and such, but that can mean so many things.
This is so spot on, and I want to give a parallel to it as well. Live mixing. I've heard SO many times from all kinds of people trashing how a band sounds live, or how the venue sounds, or how an engineer sounds or what crazy moves they might make on the console. The point you brought up about not having control of the tracks is paramount in the live scene. Not to mention then having to fight bleed, crazy room modes and coverage issues, questionable PA's, possibly not having a soundcheck (super duper common if you're not headlining or opening a show), the band playing funny because the monitor engineer sucks or because their van broke down the night before and are on little sleep... the list of variables goes on and on. Like you said, you have no idea what the backstory is, if you're a patron to the show. Can be disheartening when someones has the attitude of "I saw my favorite band X/Y/Z at so-and-so venue this past weekend and the sound was TRASH!" There are a million reasons why that might be the case, and hell, sometimes it might just be because you were standing in weird section of the room!
I think this problem is caused by thinking of "mixing" as a separate, one-step process. So many producers will tell you that they spend a ton of time making their productions as finished as possible in the arrangement/recording phase. Sound selection and sound creation is a big part of what determines the sound of a mix. Producers often send mixers tracks with reverb, compression, and panning baked in. The reason they do this is because they spent a lot of time on their vision and want it honored. And if a producer is really good, there's no reason the mixer wouldn't honor it. I look at this as a form of pre-mixing. They likely also sent a rough mix that acts as the template that the mixer has to match or "beat." If a producer doesn't do a good job, then the mixer is limited by what they have to work with. They have to please the client or get fired. There also may be practical concerns. They can't ask the producer to recut a vocal because the singer has already flown back home or the band has used up their recording budget. So now they have a vocal that's poorly performed, or it has too much compression baked in, or it was recorded on a mic that's too bright, etc. And the mixer has to do their best.
I felt this way about Deftones last few records after Koi No Yokan (and even that was more aesthetically pleasing than solid songwriting wise) and I blamed Terry Date for how Ohms sounds, especially since he mixed all their albums until Saturday Night Wrist; it didn't "sound" like his style of mixing, and I felt that maybe his style changed in the past 10 years but it's like you said, there's always more hands in the pots than what we perceive. As a live sound engineer also, I've had this praise and critique come at me depending on how I performed or if I wasn't as familiar with the board.
Yes! I once mixed an album for a band that didn't provide the individual drum stems, only one 'full' track. But ultimately I really liked how the mixes turned out. After they released it, I started seeing so many comments bashing the mixing engineer (me) for poorly mixed drums lol. I tried to politely explain to them exactly what you said in this video, but some people still didn't understand haha
Yep, in the end the only people that can judge of your work are the band and yourself. When I work with noise-rock/hardcore bands, they often ask for bold mixing choices (having only a room mic for the vocals, putting fuzzy distortion on the cymbals...). Some people might hate it, but that's what the band wants and they're the one paying me ! I hope people will leave you alone with this stereo drum thing ! :)
@@Charlyfromthenuclearcity That's right. After all, music, mixing, production, art and anything creative is purely subjective :) You either like it or you don't, but if you don't then don't mindlessly hate, just skip it and move on lol. Internet is full of cool stuff to explore :D
My favorite band of all time is Iron Maiden, and I think their 2006 album A Matter of Life and Death is a masterpiece, both in terms of production/mixing as well as songwriting and musicianship. You wouldn't believe the hate and criticism that their producer (since 2000!) Kevin Shirley gets on the Fanclub forum and in general among fans.
IMO the negative opinions are valid. The general public have dropped rock and metal like a hot potatoe since guitar nerds took front and center when it comes to production, engineering and mixing. The guitar production people are in a bubble. They don't even notice the public don't like thier product.
I'm mildly convinced this has at least something to do with the criticism of the Phronesis mix and the extensive use of sample replacement on the drums. I'm not trying to blame anyone in particular but an image comes to mind from the Animus NTM session where a certain someone brags about how Mike specifically asked not to go hard on the samples, however they went ahead and replaced the snare completely
I feel like the bigger the band, the more of the onus is on them and less on the mixer, you're not gonna tell Metallica 'no' exactly, hence the varied quailty of their mixes over the years. I used to blame mixers too, a perfect example is Linkin Park's 'The Hunting Party' album which just sounds super muddy, at first I blamed Andy Wallace until I realised he also mixed Hybrid Theory and Meteora which sound incredible, so clearly its what the band wanted 😅
There is a huge difference in ughhh I hate this song I hate this sound this mix just suck.. and ohh hmm this mix just isn't connecting with me this time around I don't think there new sound is exactly my style . Big whoop than cuz so and so and all there friends may like it and you don't, it's all mostly preference really . Great video Joel 👌🤘
Iv never really hated a mix but a lot of times it just gets kinda bland like its still a good mix but its just generic sounding. Some examples would be slipknot and korn
LEARN TO MIX: nailthemix.com/
Joel, these are some great points to be aware of. I took a course on Emotional Intelligence, and my biggest take away was "how you word your concerns". Empathy is another key to communicating. We don't always, as you have clearly pointed out, have all the facts or back story. I do feel in the end it's up to us a Professional Mixers to be professional. There is always going to be times when A-Holes chime in and how we respond or not respond to this is the important thing to remember. Someone has to be the grown up. Thanks!
100 % agree. Nothing wrong w hating someone’s work. But we have the responsibility to communicate respectfully with others.
One thing I've learned over the last couple months learning about mixing, is that a good mix can be so many different things. There is no "right" answer. Yes you generally want clarity and balance and such, but that can mean so many things.
This is so spot on, and I want to give a parallel to it as well. Live mixing.
I've heard SO many times from all kinds of people trashing how a band sounds live, or how the venue sounds, or how an engineer sounds or what crazy moves they might make on the console. The point you brought up about not having control of the tracks is paramount in the live scene. Not to mention then having to fight bleed, crazy room modes and coverage issues, questionable PA's, possibly not having a soundcheck (super duper common if you're not headlining or opening a show), the band playing funny because the monitor engineer sucks or because their van broke down the night before and are on little sleep... the list of variables goes on and on. Like you said, you have no idea what the backstory is, if you're a patron to the show.
Can be disheartening when someones has the attitude of "I saw my favorite band X/Y/Z at so-and-so venue this past weekend and the sound was TRASH!" There are a million reasons why that might be the case, and hell, sometimes it might just be because you were standing in weird section of the room!
Great points !
I think this problem is caused by thinking of "mixing" as a separate, one-step process. So many producers will tell you that they spend a ton of time making their productions as finished as possible in the arrangement/recording phase. Sound selection and sound creation is a big part of what determines the sound of a mix. Producers often send mixers tracks with reverb, compression, and panning baked in. The reason they do this is because they spent a lot of time on their vision and want it honored. And if a producer is really good, there's no reason the mixer wouldn't honor it. I look at this as a form of pre-mixing. They likely also sent a rough mix that acts as the template that the mixer has to match or "beat."
If a producer doesn't do a good job, then the mixer is limited by what they have to work with. They have to please the client or get fired. There also may be practical concerns. They can't ask the producer to recut a vocal because the singer has already flown back home or the band has used up their recording budget. So now they have a vocal that's poorly performed, or it has too much compression baked in, or it was recorded on a mic that's too bright, etc. And the mixer has to do their best.
One that gets me is when people say: They didn’t even make this in Atmos?
I felt this way about Deftones last few records after Koi No Yokan (and even that was more aesthetically pleasing than solid songwriting wise) and I blamed Terry Date for how Ohms sounds, especially since he mixed all their albums until Saturday Night Wrist; it didn't "sound" like his style of mixing, and I felt that maybe his style changed in the past 10 years but it's like you said, there's always more hands in the pots than what we perceive. As a live sound engineer also, I've had this praise and critique come at me depending on how I performed or if I wasn't as familiar with the board.
Yes! I once mixed an album for a band that didn't provide the individual drum stems, only one 'full' track. But ultimately I really liked how the mixes turned out. After they released it, I started seeing so many comments bashing the mixing engineer (me) for poorly mixed drums lol. I tried to politely explain to them exactly what you said in this video, but some people still didn't understand haha
Yep, in the end the only people that can judge of your work are the band and yourself. When I work with noise-rock/hardcore bands, they often ask for bold mixing choices (having only a room mic for the vocals, putting fuzzy distortion on the cymbals...). Some people might hate it, but that's what the band wants and they're the one paying me !
I hope people will leave you alone with this stereo drum thing ! :)
@@Charlyfromthenuclearcity That's right. After all, music, mixing, production, art and anything creative is purely subjective :) You either like it or you don't, but if you don't then don't mindlessly hate, just skip it and move on lol. Internet is full of cool stuff to explore :D
Great Video! Thank you so much Joel!
My favorite band of all time is Iron Maiden, and I think their 2006 album A Matter of Life and Death is a masterpiece, both in terms of production/mixing as well as songwriting and musicianship. You wouldn't believe the hate and criticism that their producer (since 2000!) Kevin Shirley gets on the Fanclub forum and in general among fans.
IMO the negative opinions are valid. The general public have dropped rock and metal like a hot potatoe since guitar nerds took front and center when it comes to production, engineering and mixing. The guitar production people are in a bubble. They don't even notice the public don't like thier product.
good points mayne!
I'm mildly convinced this has at least something to do with the criticism of the Phronesis mix and the extensive use of sample replacement on the drums. I'm not trying to blame anyone in particular but an image comes to mind from the Animus NTM session where a certain someone brags about how Mike specifically asked not to go hard on the samples, however they went ahead and replaced the snare completely
Love the video, love the content and love your work.
... but the real question is, who mixed Issues?
Me! Lol btw post a mix fockenclown! 😍
@@joelwanasekurm my issues are very mixed
This is a great video!
Thank you!
I feel like the bigger the band, the more of the onus is on them and less on the mixer, you're not gonna tell Metallica 'no' exactly, hence the varied quailty of their mixes over the years. I used to blame mixers too, a perfect example is Linkin Park's 'The Hunting Party' album which just sounds super muddy, at first I blamed Andy Wallace until I realised he also mixed Hybrid Theory and Meteora which sound incredible, so clearly its what the band wanted 😅
Keep Slam Alive!!! Tell um Joel!!
Was it me? Did I fuck it up?
Going death metal to disco is not extreme in my house. Ask my wife and kids. 😂
lol yeah right? I can go from Thy Art is Murder to John Williams to The Beatles to Taylor Swift in a single day. I just love music.
Exactly!
Hell yeah! Good music is good music. Enjoy it. Crank it up.
Until it’s ruined by the mixer, that is. 😉
There is a huge difference in ughhh I hate this song I hate this sound this mix just suck.. and ohh hmm this mix just isn't connecting with me this time around I don't think there new sound is exactly my style . Big whoop than cuz so and so and all there friends may like it and you don't, it's all mostly preference really .
Great video Joel 👌🤘
Iv never really hated a mix but a lot of times it just gets kinda bland like its still a good mix but its just generic sounding.
Some examples would be slipknot and korn
Mike = Goat , and we all know it's the bassist's fault 🤣
Counterparts, for example, are too great to have such shit sounding albums.