When to Add Fruit - Primary? Conditioning? Both?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Should you add fruit in primary? Secondary or Conditioning? Both? We get asked this a lot so let's do a test to see when might be the best time. Keep in mind this test is done using berries, and we tried to keep everything else the same. Different fruits may yield different results (but that's another test!).
Thank you Tony for your generous gift of honey!
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3 lbs of honey in the store here is 15 to 20 bucks so that much honey.... is a very nice gift indeed
If you need help drinking that 3gallons of mead you just let me know
LMAO count me in
Recently, I made bottled up a brew I called a 3-way mead. I brewed in a 3 gallon carboy, a dessert mead with 4lbs of honey per gallon, then in secondary, I split up to individual gallons, one I added strawberries and ginger, the second I added goji berries, and the third I left didn't add anything. It turned out great. And a simple way to make different recipes with the same brew.
It was cool to see that when you added the fruit in secondary, it sank to the bottom instead of floating like the fruit did in primary. That makes sense, since the solution of the liquid is much lighter in secondary (due to the ethanol) than the solution in primary (which is denser than water due to the dissolved sugars). Then, at the end of fermentation, the fruit was floating again. I assume that’s because there was minute quantities of CO2 trapped in the fruit matrix.
I've watched this a few times, and this is so interesting. I would expect that the fruit added to the *fermented* mead would lead to a sweeter mead because there's a lower colony of yeast to convert sugars to alcohol. Likewise, alcohol is so good at leeching flavor out of fruits and spices, I expected the fruit added in conditioning to have a stronger fruit flavor. I'll be testing this soon and felt like rewatching this again! I enjoy this channel's spirit of experimentation.
You two are so stinking cute! Happy Belated Anniversary 🎉
Thank you!! 😊
Edit: Happy Gilmore!!
I've been doing your general rule (that you haven't explicitly mentioned, I just took it to heart) of using fresh fruit/previously frozen fruit in primary and dried fruit in conditioning, sometimes both. I think the general idea has served me well.
THANK YOU! I was so curious about this!
Amazing experiment! Thank you for taking the time to do this!
This test is one I have thought about for so long. This has answered so many questions I had. Thank you both.
I’m guessing there would be a more marked difference if you had pasteurized between primary fermentation and conditioning. I’m making a Melomel soon, so maybe I’ll try exactly that and let you know if it makes a difference.
Thank you. I love these comparisons in technique
Excellent test and done as scientifically as possible. I say that because I worked as an R&D tech and chemical engineer in my job but am now retired. I had always assumed that all fruit in primary would "scrub out" some of the volatile essences and flavors during fermentation but from your test, I do not believe that anymore. My fruit meads have all been made with all fruit in primary and had not gotten to doing this test but had planned to try something similar. Thank you for doing it for me! 🙂
Happy anniversary guys and thank you for this test and your work in general, you make this whole thing so much more approachable than most creators.
One thing i'd like to mention: this should only be part one of your experimentation. I'd guess that spices would work in a whole different way, so maybe thats an idea for the future ;)
Thanks for the experiment. 👍 I really like those VS tests and did a few in the past as well (not that one but others) 😅
Very good test, thank you
Great episode, please do more of these kinds of things, the learning experience is off the charts into science land. cheers
That was an awesome video. Thank you both for doing this time consuming and even more so space consuming experiment for us. I think from now on I’m going to put my additions into secondary/conditioning. Amazing colour as well!
This was a great test and video - will certainly change how I think about adding my flavors!
That's awesome! I like these comparison videos.
This was excellent. Thanks for doing this video. Like Brian, it gives me so many ideas. Happy brewing, everybody!
Happy anniversary you two! You two of my favorite home Brewers
what a great experiment thank you
this was awesome i can't wait for the 6 month to a year follow up
i came here to learn the different between fruit in 1st stage & 2nd stage
but awww.... that kiss soo sweet.. make the mead become sooo sweet congrats for 12 years (13 now) of happiness & struggle. i pray & hope all the best for you both
I would be unable to articulate after all that tasting.
Love the happy Gilmore reference, love the save ferris t-shirt and the video! Gave me a lot to think about as I am new to brewing mead! Thanks guys!
Happy Anniversary to the both of you.
Congratulations on 12 years and super video guys learning is fun
I've been wondering this exact question. Thank you so much for covering it. I'll stick with adding fruit at the beginning because I think it's easier that way.
I was waiting for this! I just finished making a Melomel, and after much deliberation I went with a 1/2 in primary and 1/2 in secondary. I am conditioning now and hoping for the best.
Happy anniversary you two!
Ok, I'm a bit late finding this video. I would be hard pressed (that is NOT an intended pun!) to find a more interesting, clear video for this kind of a test. You didn't ramble but you definitely made it interesting, entertaining, clear and concise. And you made it 100% understandable the purpose of the test. Incredible.
I say the "Too good for you home" reference weekly at work. Non of my coworkers get it and I refuse to explain in.
Also, as a long time viewer, these experiment videos are my favorite. Keep up the good work.
Quality content, right here.
Happy anniversary guys hope it was a great one! I would like to see a test on the comparison of the effects different types of honey may cause.
There are hundreds of honey varieties! They all give their own flavors.
Excellent test! Stay safe from the storm headed your way!
This was great for me . I posed this question under a more recent posting and was referred back to this video from 2022. I guess I'm also going to have to experiment but would love to avoid blowouts in primary. For now I'm going to continue to stick to secondary for adding flavors (esp spices or acids) and fruit. Thanks for producing this.
Happy late Anniversary (when I am posting this comment)! Thank you for all the videos you have done for the mead community!
This is an awesome test. Glad you did it. Definitely saves me the space of doing it myself. 😁
Thank you!
Not even finished the vid yet, but wanted to say 2 things:
Firstly - Happy Anniversary!!!!
Secondly - Loved the Happy Gilmore reference, made my night (yeah, I'm in Australia).
Thanks again guys, and keep up the good work!
Love your content!! So glad I found your channel ❤
Thank you, this was so helpful as I've been torn between when to add my fruit in a Pear Mead I am planning. I think I am going to go with 1/2 and 1/2.
This was really helpful to see as a new fermentologist. I love having the option for before or after. Good stuff!
Happy to help!
I was recently wondering if I should add my fruit to secondary for my fruit wines too. This should allow the fruit flavor to remain. I also wonder at what point my fruit wine would just become a seltzer
Another awesome thing that this opens up is I can make 5 gallons of alcohol from sugar. Then divide into 5 1-gal carboys and add the fruit then.
Thank you for doing this. I am always looking for ways to better my meads, and this kind of information is invaluable.
Happy to help.
I woke up to news about a hurricane warning for Florida and thought of you. I hope you and your fur babies are safe and stay that way.
Great video as always, with interesting results. Wish we could get the little big mouth bubblers here in the UK. Always find I have to top up after racking to reduce head space using the standard one gallon demijohn. Anyway, great content, keep them coming.
She is just too darned cute!
I enjoy your videos so much. I had previously just had a fleeting thought of learning this fun and tasty... hobby? But your videos have inspired me to dive in.
💜 Happy anniversary, from the oldies in north Florida.
I was looking for exactly for this topic and you couldn't have made a more helpful and thorough video covering it. Thank you!
Happy to help!
Thanks for this. I always put fruit in primary, but I get a few overflows. So now I can avoid that by adding most things in conditioning.
My old mother made wine for over 40 years and she always said all you need to make alcohol was sugar water and yeast ............ everything else was for flavouring, I would add to that some additions were to change the condition eg stop fermentation or alter acidity.
First: Happy anniversary!
Second: I loved the content of this video. I'm new to brewing and have not had the opportunity to experiment. This was very interesting!!!
I absolutely love this experiment. After I tried this for myself at home, achieving the same results. I now make a 5 gallon batch of mead and then flavor in four 1.4 gallon big mouth bubbler. So happy you two made this video!!!
We are about to make our first mead for our Shriner's competition for next year, thank you for making this video!
Fascinating!!
Thanks that gives me a better understanding I’m going to add canned mix of blueberries in natural apple juice
I know it would work out different if the fruit would have been run through a blender/food processer first. So, do it all again! Why? If the fruit was fully mashed the sugar differences would have fermented differently.
Not really. Yeast are microscopic and will extract all the sugars anyway. Frozen fruit has the cell walls fairly well broken up so the results would be much the same.
Great Timing!! I am planning on flavoring three different gallons of mead in conditioning in December using Raspberry, Mulberry and Serviceberry.
awe!!! happy anniversary!!
Thanks!
Thanks so much for doing this! No more overflows, baby! From now on all the fruit goes in the secondary.
I've kinda already drifted towards doing that anyways, because I got tired of the mess and blow off tubes, plus I've intuited there's no relevant difference by tasting same type of batches done differently...and they'd be the same even 6-9 months later.
Still, now I know it for sure! Scientifically. 👍👍
Happy anniversary, lovebirds!
agreed. i hate dealing with fruit in primary and decided awhile back it wasn't that important. i didn't do any testing, just decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
I would suggest the reason for initial overflow of 2 in the primary is because they both had higher volumes in the jars because of the added fruit.
Thumbs up, I have wanted to see this for quite some time.
Thanks for this. I love using real fruit and I feel like I haven't been getting full extractive value.
I tried to a similar test when I first started. But I only had one big mouth bubbler, and then forgot what I was doing cause I don’t weight anything down… don’t be like me, write it down. But instead of fruit before and after. I did whole fruit before, then in secondary I took the fruit, added water, and heated it in a pan and then ran it through a food mill for all the juices. Then just added the juice. It’s my wife’s favorite. Then I did a tropical fruit one but just fruit at the start. And it was missing something so I threw in some rum oak chips. That was good but then never did a third one lol. So glad you did this test lol. The first time I did the tropical my airlock blew off. So had to make a blow off tube. That was a fun clean up.
Happy Anniversary!!!
I was wondering if it mattered with flavour. Found your video and now I won’t worry about it. So thanks for that❤
No problem 😊
did I miss you saying what the ABV was for each one? Happy anniversary.
We might not have said, but they were all within 9.5-9.7%
I work in a lab and I love how scientifically you did this 🤣 thanks for looking in to this!
Great job limiting the variables. 👍 Going to link this one in my Discord.
👰🤵Happy anniversary.
Hello! You have no idea, but you have been living in our house for about the last 8 days while we binge watch and rewatch so much of your content. 1. You ROCK. 2. Question: We want to make some mead adding fruit in the CONDITIONING (secondary or whatever if fermentation kicks back up) phase. But we ALSO want to backsweeten w honey AFTER as needed. We don't want to use the chemicals OR pasteurize twice (unless you say to!) So our IDEA is....make standard mead in primary. Rack it to a wide mouth fermenter. Add frozen fruit in a bag. Put the lock back on and let it sit for 2 weeks, watching for signs of renewed fermentation. Rack it to a pitcher to taste and backsweeten. Rack it to a carboy and pasteurized it. And then final taste and bottle it. Does this sound appropriate?
Okay... you can do that. The fruit is very likely going to referment if you haven't hit the yeast alcohol tolerance. You also don't want to add honey after pasteurizing so.... the way you said it is doable. Or... pasteurize the fruit then add it. Then wait for it to extract, sweeten, pasteurize. Just a suggestion.
This was so interesting and has answered something I was curious about, thank you 😊 I’d be interested in seeing a similar test for florals like a rose petal or lavender flower
Great video and what an Amazing couple of humans you two are. Thank you for making this in depth "how to" and for keeping it simple... Happy Anniversary! There is something about this that makes me want to hit the links... Peace and Cheers
You guys are awesome!
Thanks! ❤
Happy Anniversary and thanks for enduring the mess to prove we can add fruit during conditioning.😀
I have made many fruit wines, all with great bouquets. I prefer my wines on th dry side rather than sweet but they always had limited flavor (very subtle) and not really any legs.
I experimented with mixing Bananas into the wine as they make a wine with very neutral flavor but a lot of body and legs.
This works great! I now always mix the bananas in a the start. Making a wine 4 parts fruit 2 part banana win a final alcohol around 13%
The results flavor boost are amazing without a hint of Banana in the taste or Bouquet.
First off...Happy (belated) Anniversary! Also, I love your content and how well you connect to your audience. I haven't seen any questions on the refractometer. You used it to check the brix when you first made the test bottles and used a converter app to get the SG. Can you not use this latter when checking FG? I work at a factory that used an older style refractometer (light and few drops of honey mix) for sugars (honey coating) and all that was used was the brix data. Would it be too low to use if the FG was below 1.00?
Congrats on 12 years y’all!!
Thank you!
Well that was interesting!
Hope you're both staying safe.
This came out at the perfect time. I am in the middle of my second attempt at making mead. This one has Saskatoon berries in. I was only able to get half the berries I wanted into primary, so it's good to know it will have the same flavor profile when I add them in conditioning This weekend with a step feed. My mead went to a .997 spgr, which is way to low for my liking.
You guys are adorable, grettings from Brazil!
the only caviat left is: will they age differently?
The main "extract" from this video: 24:39 "When you’re making an extract, you’re extracting the flavor of something with a strong neutral spirit and so the process of fermentation, you’re kind of extracting that flavor through the process of fermentation." (and post fermentation as well)
I am making a mead right now. It has a whole pound of blended cranberries. A bunch of mini candy canes I got from a dispensary. Two cinnamon sticks. A tiny amount of cloves and nutmeg in primary. I am about 5 days in. Color looks super cool.
That is a useful topic
You guys are great! Making some blueberry wine right now!
Hey nebraska! That's where I'm from also sorry I hadn't made it that far happy anniversary you two
Came for the mead .... staying for the dymanic between you two .... heres hoping i manage to find my Derica by the time Im Brians age :)
I'm just gonna comment before the end of the video. I've had the best luck with a pound in primary and a pound in secondary, but I've also had great results adding to secondary. I'll shut up now and watch the video 😄
This is great I've been wondering about this myself because I am hoping to get a one gallon starter kit for Christmas from northern brewer and a recipe I want to try after I get a couple batches under my belt is a cherry chocolate stout using tart cherries and cacao nibs
First off: Happy anniversary!
Loved this video and I’m hoping we’ll see a one year tasting.
My MO usually is half in primary and half in secondary to avoid blow-offs and because I’m a greedy guts for flavour and like A LOT of fruit flavour in my melomels. The honey character usually only surfaces around the 1-year mark of my meads. Before that, they’re all fruit. I might try a secondary only brew at some point but for now I tend to stick to the Goldilocks approach. More often than not because I tend to go with what’s available/in season/cheap to start a new brew, have a taste when I remove the brew bag with fruit, and then tweak in secondary: more of the same? Something else? If I haven’t got more of the same I’ll see what’s on offer/in season/cheap that’ll enhance my brew. If there isn’t anything, I’ll let it sit and wait for something to come along I can pop in there without breaking the bank. I’ve never been sorry for that approach. I call it The Rhumtopf method’ because that.s pretty much how my Granny and me used to make Rhumtopf: Start a pot with rhum, sugar and fruit. Wait for another fruit to come available. Add that with more rhum and sugar. Rinse and repeat. Then, let it sit once enough fruit was added. A few weeks/months later, let the party begin… In my meads the only difference is that I don’t addd sugar and remove the previous batch of fruit. Unless I want to step feed. Then I’d remove the previous batch of fruit, and add honey and fruit.
@@littlebones88 - Whenever possible I don’t even use water in primary, but use some kind of juice or other. Preferably the juice of the fruit I’m using, or some juice that goes well with the other ingredients I’m using.
@@littlebones88 - both sound delicious. Did you know strawberries actually belong to the same plant family as roses?
White grapes are a good base for a lot of melomels in my opinion. Although for some recipes I use apple juice, red grape juice, pear juice, or other juices.
The ABV you’re mentioning is really high. It can overpower the fruit. Of course, if you plan on keeping your melomels for a long time, the high ABV can be a good thing. My personal rule of thumb is at least 1 month of ageing per percent ABV for anything over 10-12 % although that is an entirely personal preference. Or are you talking potential ABV, and using a yeast that won’t go as high? Most of my brews end up around the 14% mark although I’ve had some that went up to and slightly over 20% and were excellent once they aged out.
I think what this video really shows is the difference between secondary and conditioning. The two that got fruit or more fruit after 19 days. Had a second fermentation( 18:24 Easily seen by the yeast build-up on the bottom). Where the one that had all fruit up front, after 19 days was put in conditioning. At tasting this one didn't have yeast build up, so no refermentation.
Um: what's happening here I think is that they all go dry, and when you add fruit in 'conditioning' then that's not actually conditioning because the yeast will happily chomp away at the sugars that were added for conditioning, resulting in fermented fruit just the same. So it's all the same. To make this different, you would need to add fruit in conditioning of a beverage that's truly 'done' and stable: either because it's over the alcohol tolerance fo the yeast, or after pasteurizing before adding the fruit for conditioning.
The entire amount of fruit was 9 points of sugars.
I’ve had fermentation start up again after adding fruit in secondary because the fruit added some sugars and the juices diluted the alcohol content a bit. But it was more of a blip than anything else. Fermentation was never vigorous in a dry brew. Now, when I added more honey/sugar, that was a whole different story. So in theory: yes. In practice, in a brew that’s gone dry… not in my experience.
Now, if the fruit contains a lot of sugars and alcohol tolerance of the yeast hasn’t been reached, yes. Most definitely you’ll be able to see your brew starting up again. Otherwise you’ll probably be wondering if it’s off-gassing CO2 that’s still in suspension in your brew and it might he a bit of both.
Happy Gillmore.
Happy Belated Anniversary.
I'd like to see a spice version of this test. Maybe a pumpkin cider also.
Happy Anniversary! You guys are too cute. Thanks to you both I currently have a sweet red and a cider fermenting, with plans to make a spiced apple wine for thanksgiving and a mead shortly after that. I look forward to every new video!
I think you might get a better/ clearer result if you pasteurized after primary/ ferment to completion in primary, because they might have refermented in conditioning
Pasturizing would result in a sweeter, more fruit-forward wine. Which kinda defeats the point of a comparison. For a fair comparison both wines need to be fermented dry.
Instead of adding sugar directly after fermentation to achieve your flavor profile, you could make a fruit syrup to add instead.
Berry interesting experiment
Love the hair ❤️
Congratulations on your anniversary. My 12th is also coming up later this year.
Thanks. I brew now to blueberry.