Really though, thats the best option i think anyone could ask for. 30th street in philly, designed with the same elements is a wonderful train station, and NYC deserves on just as grand if not more then
@@TatersEatsCrayons I am not sure that style would be more expensive than a modern style. In fact, with modern contruction capabilities, it might actually be cheaper to build. It is tried and true design.
being a biweekly commuter from college down to NYC to visit my family, I used to take Penn Station directly to board my train, but it honestly just became way too crowded over the years and ever since Moynihan train hall opened a few years ago, I've never looked back. Would love to see Penn Station get redone and rebuilt from the ground up, it's one of those things in the city that REALLY needs a giant upgrade.
Me too! But if it hadn't been lost despite the efforts of many of us "little people" as well as by celebs to save it; the general public and the politicians would not have realized what is at stake by thoughtlessly tearing down Old NYC. Then loss of Penn station 😒was not totally in vain. If only .... we had been able to stop the rise of those ugly ("modern") glass rectangles/squares in mid-town and fruther south in Manhattan, NYC! 😒 (Set back structures like the Empire state, are much more elegant than the high-rise "boxes". ... AND ... Set back high-rise structures also allow much more natural light to reach street level)
2:16 While that is “a” Penn Station, it’s not THAT Penn Station! Your photo is of the very much still standing NEWARK Penn Station in Newark, NJ which opened in 1935. Aside from an elevated bridge going right into its front, it is still a pretty Deco building in a city that, while still Newark, is sure as heck better than it was in the 80s! Downtown Newark has a state-of-the art arena called the Prudential Center, new local restaurants, and the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. Newark Penn is shared by the Newark Light Rail (aka the Newark City Subway because some stations are underground), NJT rail, Amtrak, PATH (subway between NJ and NYC), NJT buses, and Greyhound buses so it's very much a hub. The Moynihan Train Hall upgrade to NY Penn Station was definitely needed! I like the mix of the old and the new, not to mention it's within the James A. Farley post office building that was also designed by the McKim, Mead & White trio who worked on the original Penn Station that was once next door (they worked on the Brooklyn Museum and Columbia's main campus too). Sure it's different from the original Penn, but it's better than nothing! NYC is the "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere" city, and it deserves an Amtrak hub that welcomes tourists with a grand "Yes, you CAN make it here!"
I have no idea about construction and architecture, but the amount of knowledge that I'm getting from these videos is insane. And I'm enjoying every bit of it!
I remember the original station as a boy. It dwarfed Grand Central. Tourists that gawk and take selfies in Grand Central, will never realize how much more grander the former Penn Station was.
Penn Station has been a large part of my life growing up in NJ and now living in NYC. Cant be understated how bad the old station was. The good news is I feel happy everytime Im at Penn Station and see some the improvements. The opening up of the lower level has totally changed the feel of the place and I love it. So excited for even more improvements down the road.
I've only been to Penn Station once but despite all its issues which I wasn't aware of, I'm extremely impressed with its current state, multi level trains and subways going like 5 or 6 floors underground is pretty impressive in itself and then a whole stadium sitting on top. Whacky stuff.
As someone who has lived in and around NYC for a total of about 7 years and has traveled through many of the train and subway stations, it's truly bizarre to hear someone describe Penn Station as impressive.
Although the original Penn Station was lost, because of the rise of preservation movement as a result, the people pulled through when it comes to saving Grand Central Terminal from a similar fate. As proposed by its then owner Penn Central in 1968, it was to be replaced by a Marcel Breuer office building design that looked like a shoebox lid on its side. When Jacqueline Kennedy heard this, she was having NONE of it. She joined the fight in 1975 with the Municipal Art Society and had a conference at the famous Oyster Bar where she said, "If we don’t care about our past, we can’t have very much hope for our future." Thanks to Jacqueline convincing the mayor (Abraham Beame), the terminal was ultimately saved by the city's Landmark Preservation Commission (created after Penn was demolished), but this was challenged by Penn Central in a Supreme Court case. In 1978, the court ruled in favor of the city. And the most beautiful building in NYC was saved.
The last time I was at Penn Station in my most beloved city was a couple of years ago. Some of those passageways are literally only 7-8 feet in height. Rats use the pipes along the ceiling to travel all over the station. When a couple were running over my head, my daughter screamed and I was like, "Hey, need to catch train out to Jersey!" When they knocked down the original Penn Station, it lead to the development of the NYC Landmark Division. I don't think anyone will miss this one though...
They have made some improvements. The ceiling was raised as well as the widening of the corridors on top of the new Moynihan train Hall which is pretty nice. It's a start. Hopefully they will continue the improvements. th-cam.com/video/EPcLK94IZIo/w-d-xo.html
It smells like piss and theirs violent crime inside. Spending billions in handouts to private companies to build a new one is a cheaper solution I guess...
Some may call it idealistic, but I think that there isn't really much of a competition in what needs to be done with Penn Station. Tearing down the historic terminal was one of the worst mistakes in NYC development history, and now we have a unique opportunity to rectify that. I'd take a beautiful world-class station over a real estate scheme masquerading as a public-works project any day.
@@electro_sykes The least they could do is open the main entrances Moynihan train hall 24/7, taking night trains from Penn Station as it is now is a nightmarish labyrinth since the way-finding signs become useless after they shut down certain corridors at night.
@@joshualee-reid867 Sad to see how NYC has turned into an 18 hour city, and not 24 hour city, as it once was. Central Park, Penn Station, were once open 24 hours. If this continues, they will shut down certain subway lines as well. This is now being considered. The "city that never sleeps," will be a thing of the past.
ReThinkNYC needs to win. Not just because the original Penn Station is one of America's most iconic and important landmarks, and an artistic treasure, but also because the station needs that massive space. Hochul's plan is just a renovation and expansion, which isn't enough, because MSG is still taking up the vast majority of the space. Transit needs to be the priority. Not built around an arena.
But msg is the most iconic arena in the world, and iconic places in nyc. They can’t just tear it down, because then they would have to rebuild it somewhere, and current nba/nhl arenas in major cities cost billions of dollars to rebuild, and considering it would be replacing the most iconic arena in the world, the total cost of the arena alone would be $4 billion. There isn’t enough money for that. They have to be realistic.
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 Yet Hochul's plan is going to be at least $7B. I understand that MSG is legendary, but the unfortunate reality is that the original Penn Station should've never been torn down in the first place. Transit is more important than a sports arena, and MSG is taking up the vast majority of the space, making it very difficult to fix Penn. Hochul's plan is built around MSG, which exactly the problem. Sports arenas should be around transit. Not the other way around. I refuse to believe that that narrow street level alleyway is going to provide enough capacity necessary to serve New York. New York needs the space of Penn Station. And besides, Penn Station is an iconic landmark in its own right that deserves to exist alongside of relocated MSG. The Hudson Yards still has vacant space, so that's where ReThinkNYC wants to move it, which is only a few blocks west of Penn Station. Edit: Actually, I've discovered that ReThink actually wants to relocate MSG one block east of Penn Station on Broadway at Herald Square, right behind where Hotel Pennsylvania was, which would honestly be even better, because rebuilding Penn Station would mean rebuilding the full vision McKim had, including rebuild the Hotel Pennsylvania, and connecting the hotel and MSG directly to Penn Station via an underground pedestrian tunnel. Penn Station is already being connected to the Herald Square stop via an underground pedestrian bridge, so why not link them all together?
@@gabetalks9275 most people alive today don’t remember or weren’t alive for when the original penn station existed. The arena is here to stay, they’ll tear down skyscrapers before they tear it down. The station can be rebuilt larger without that outlandishly ornate and expensive plan.
ReThink Penn Station is the most hopeful project I have seen in years. Rebuilding the original Penn Station would create a new monumental icon for New York and the US. It is 100% the best plan. Rebuild old Penn Station now!
Fun fact: many of the platform stairs that were a part of the original station (seen at 1:29 & 1:46) survived the renovation and can still be seen, such as at 7:25.
Wow that's crazy! I had no idea, looking at the frames you're totally right. Where did you learn that? Is there a book or website or something about it?
@@mjbaldwin Have traveled through Penn station plenty of times. After going to the wiki page for the old Penn Station and seeing the photos, I couldn’t unsee it.
Just one of many things this video is wrong about (“entirely different” - no the platforms are the same, narrow, and the low ceilings in the LIRR level until recently were little changed from the original.) B1M also conflates Penn South, now essentially canceled, with the new plan to put a big glass hall in front of MSG. And Rethink is ignorant of tunnel limitations, east and west. The trains from NJ already run through, for storage midday, and cannot run both ways at peak because the LIRR needs to stuff masses of people into Manhattan from 50+ miles east. The schedules could never work even if they were the same agency, with the tunnels east. Rethink has a different agenda, stopping Penn South in any new plan to replace the old plan, since it’s preservationist. Recreating old Penn and moving MSG are a waste of money when other priorities would actually do more for service.
The Rethink Penn Station proposals would, to a great extent, put right a terrible wrong done to New York City in the 1960s. I hope the powers that be in NY have sufficient pride in their town to take up that far better plan.
I haven’t been to Penn Station in many years now. However, as a child I can clearly remember that Penn Station was the type of place that parents absolutely insisted on holding onto the hands of younger children. Penn Station is such a weird and confusing maze that it would be very easy to lose a member of your party in that maze, especially a child. Moreover, what’s terrible is that for many people this dark and dingy train station is their first impression of New York City!
I remember taking the train to Penn for the first time. I felt hyped because it was Amtrak, not Metro-North, and thought it would’ve been better than GCT. I was so wrong in so many ways. When I saw a Casey Neistat video where he briefly talked about why Penn Station sucks and the old one was better I was hooked on knocking down this entire monstrosity and rebuilding the original station.
Hey, I would ride the A Train from Uptown Manhattan into Penn Station's lowest level, walk clear across the low level onto an Escalator, up to the second level then up to the first level on to 7th Ave every Saturday in the 80's and 90's. The saddest day for me was when they closed the Arcade on the Low level. Penn Station was massive yes, but it was cool at the same time.
A dark and dingy station is still a better first impression than trash bags and sacks on sidewalks everywhere in the city. I haven't seen that in any first and second world country. Sad, so sad. Make billionaires pay taxes!
You don’t want to do something boring and retro though. Leave that to Disney. But a reimagining in kinda the same rough outlines as the original station, but with new materials and more light and curves, would be great. Just picture something the French would do, and do that!
Rebuilding the old is not always a good idea, mostly because the old did not exist anymore, but you always can pay homage to it in a new and contemporary way
@@marcosv.ribeiro1073 just because something was “old” doesn’t mean it can’t be rebuilt. Many “revival” styles were simply designs from an older era being brought back such as “gothic revival”, Beaux Arts which was inspired by renaissance and Baroque, Tudor revival and etc etc I don’t see why we can’t build in old styles since a lot of people enjoy it more than modern architecture
@@danopticon "You don’t want to do something boring and retro though" good that in my country after the IIWW there wasn't many people like you and we rebuilt a lot of our cities. Old Penn Station would be a architectural masterpiece today, current building is trash and the proposal looks like any other station in the world.
honestly being a long islander who often needs to take the LIRR into the city, Penn station is so miserable that as soon as the new line to grand central opened up ive chosen to wait upwards of 35 minutes if i have the time to choose a grand central train instead of one going into Penn. I doubt many people would choose penn if they had the option between the two so some renovation is much appreciated
If Penn Station really is the busiest station in the western hemisphere as stated in this video, then the great city of New York should turn this into something truly fitting of that statistic. I am from and live in Scotland, there are more people in NYC than the whole of Scotland by a very long way. Building a truly beautiful and efficient station would not only benefit New Yorkers but, if done right, could become another amazing reason to visit NYC - just like Grand Central. Get this right and it really could become yet another jewel in The Empire State's crown. Sadly experience tells us that the decisions will be made by bankers, investors, developers, etc. Money talks the loudest. That's why Penn Station is exactly what is currently is. Please get this right NYC, you could really create something beautiful again. It's been too long.
“Through [Penn Station] one entered the city like a god. Perhaps it was really too much. One scuttles in now like a rat.” - Vincent Scully, art historian
Loved this! I have a few connections. I was very young when it was still there but I remember the old Penn Station. After it was demolished my father (IBEW Local 3 electrical workers union) helped build One Penn Plaza, the office building that sits above the old station, next to Madison Square Garden. Later, ironically, he also worked on some of the "renovations" of the "new" Penn Station LIRR concourse. That was the worst part of the station and not at all befitting the busiest commuter rail line in America. I lived on Long Island and went through there very often. The Amtrak section was much much airier and nicer. So many proposals to redo Penn Station have been floated over the years. I truly hope this one comes to fruition.
Whenever I hear about developers complain about a proposed office development delaying project because there’s no demand for it- i yell and say pivot! Massive demand for housing ideally affordable. Just do more of that
The problem is that a lot of it just becomes luxury housing. Not affordable housing. Also, try getting any of the New York property developers to agree to building affordable housing on prime real estate in Midtown. You'd have a better chance seeing the New York Knicks raising a title banner in the next 10 years.
That's happened to a few projects here in the Raleigh, NC area. They were intended for office space but with the softening of the office market and a strong demand for housing (this area is booming), some of what had been intended for offices is going to be homes instead.
@@JeffDeWitt Raleigh real estate market isn't as inflated as NYC's though. Especially because of the location. Which is what throws all common sense and logic out of whack. What should be a prime spot for new, sensible housing developments will either be more office space and luxury housing because "LOL MIDTOWN!"
@@GreenHornet553 Oh I know it's not inflated like NYC, and am thankful. But the laws of supply and demand still hold, greater supply helps keep costs down.
I have watched you since WAY back now (my husband died week before last and I’ve been reminiscing) him and I, being a gay couple… we sorta turned the TH-camrs that we constantly watched our family because you all were there with through so much … and Simon you were easily one of th first we found and I find myself wanting to say something only realizing you have no idea who we are …. So now I’m sitting here on my birthday and I needed something to occupy my mind so I decided to write this anyhow to let you know that John suddenly died and Joey is trying to manage… thanks for all of your hard work and amazing times you spent entertaining and teaching us!
The ReThink Penn Station would be so great to see built! We already have a lot of very modern architecture with Hudson Yards right next door so some return of beautiful and iconic neoclassical would be good.
6:10 Can confirm I used to have to walk a new path from the train what seemed like every day. And plus now all the benefits of Penn (Rose’s Pizza and huge 26oz beers) have been closed since COVID. I started taking the Grand Central line.
As a visitor to New York city from Geelong Australia in 2018, I didn't mind Penn Station. Someone commented that it's the worst in the world. Um...nope! In Victoria (the state Geelong is in) our railways are behind a lot of places in the world...unfortunately because the state has some wonderful places in it. I found New York's railway so easy to get around.
I like the plan of sheathing MSG in glass and gutting the arena interior to expose the train terminal below. IMO it'd be awesome! This is even coming from someone who had his college graduation and been to events at MSG; would not mind at all for an awesome train station to replace the old arena
The 1960s may have been the absolute worst time for architecture and city planning. Bland plain concrete, overemphasis on car centric design, questionable zoning practices, just to name a few. Demolition of original Penn Station is icing on the terrible cake.
Such awesome news that they want to rebuild it! I just talked with someone about the old station and the ancient buildings it was inspired by, and now i come home to hear about this!
Americans that haven’t traveled don’t realize how poor our infrastructure is. Even our newer ones, other countries look like you time traveled to the future
Just move Madison Square Garden to Hunter's Point in Queens. There's a massive transit hub there already with multiple subway lines and Long Island Railroad passing through, and the northern part of Hunter's Point is mostly low-rise warehouse space which is already in the process of being torn down and turned into high-rise apartments. Hunter's Point is also away from the CBD in Midtown, which means that office commuters and those attending sports/music events at MSG wouldn't be jammed together into the same station. People taking the train to MSG from New Jersey would have a slightly longer journey, but they could just switch trains from NJTransit to the LIRR at New Penn Station or hop on the subway to get to Hunter's Point without much hassle, given the transit network already there.
I’d be overjoyed if they would build a reimagined version of the original station. It’s so sad how many amazing structures like Penn Station were torn down in the 60s to put up brutalist monstrosities in their place
Feds urban renewal movement destroyed entire neighborhood in Boston with huge high rises is its place the ugly brutality city hall with finally reimagined windy Brick desert area surrounding it unused 99% of time it is being humanized since 2020 with trees play area more benches and green space. And a great swath if downtown Salem ma was torn down for ugly useless architecture.
They'll just move the arena and call it "Madison Cube Garden". I believe it was mentioned in that documentary on Fox a few years ago. Futurama or something like that.
Futurama joked about 'Madison shapes' but the owners of MSG are actually building a Madison Sphere in London and the locals aren't too pleased because the whole exterior will be used to broadcast adverts into the air like something out of Bladerunner.
For all the criticism about Penn Station, it’s the same tracks and platforms since it was built. They just removed the building above it. Improved capacity through the North River Tunnels and additional tracks/platforms would be New Jersey’s burden. Through running will never happen since NJ transit has incompatible equipment with the LIRR and Metro North. There is no standard signalizing or electrification among the three railroads. That’ll cost WAY more than a new Penn Station will in and of itself. Besides, they don’t want people on the platforms for no reason. Keep ‘em clear to de-train, and once they’re clear, you can begin the boarding process. This ain’t rocket science. Also, how does this affect Amtrak, which owns Penn Station? Is the state of New York buying it from them?
lmfao, you think Amtrak isn’t responsible for the tunnels also???? 😂 Northeast Corridor not that important?? You seem to know what you’re talking about but implying that NY and NYC don’t have a part in it and aren’t the ultimate decision-maker on the matter is laughable. Part of me wishes that the tunnels became inoperable and the station unusable so the city saw the catastrophic effects would be on the NYC economy. Believe it or not, it’s the heart of NYC pumping commuters in & out.
@@word42069 You think I underestimate the importance of the North River Tunnels and the GWB being the two chokepoints of the economy? THAT is laughable. All I'm saying is Amtrak owns Penn Station. The state through the LIRR is a tenant. I'm sure people more closely related to this proposed project would be able to discern responsibilities of each party involved in reconstructing Penn. Maybe a change in ownership is part of this process.
The current Penn Station isn’t exactly a replacement of the original structure. The platforms and stairs up are original. When Penn Station was demolished, they didn’t tear the whole thing down, they just chopped off the top and replaced the public train halls with the underground warrens.
8:11 ... the small point the guess forgot is that Penn station is mainly a terminal station, because east of the station is LIRR railroad operations, and west is NJTransit operations, only Amtrak operates right thru trains thru the stations
@@electro_sykes just stop. NY Penn Station needs these upgrades as well as having the Gateway Program completed would bring so much room for expansion across all of the commuter railroads.
Error relating to London - most mainline stations in London are terminuses. Paddington, Euston, Waterloo, King’s Cross, Liverpool Street etc. However, changes with Elizabeth Line, Crossrail 2 (proposal) link some of these stations better than the underground, but still are not through running. Furthermore HS2 project will bring new options like at Old Oak Common (so passengers could avoid changing in central London.
While old Penn was a terrible loss, Moynihan is a small glimpse of what once was, a decent improvement, with a more modern style. Still the renovation is an improvement, and I'll take it over what we have now any day.
$7billion to improve transit at the busiest station in the western hemisphere, in one of its most important cities with potential scope to increase passenger numbers to a million a day, with numerous sky scrapers being built around it. $7billion should be nothing to the city of new york, but also to the state, and to the country as a whole. Should be an absolute no brainer, and with the number of supporting developments, around it, which would see an increase in retail, leisure (maybe a new MSG) living, office and hotel space. How the hell is it in question that it might break even?! You'd get better returns on this than buying into a social media company.
Rethink Penn station is clearly what needs to be done. It couldn't be any clearer that people CRAVE for that building, for the original penn station, that feeling has gotten stronger and stronger over the years, the people need it. No other building will fill the gap. The only other acceptable idea is Washburn's design which is beautiful as well but even that one wont be enough. People crave for og penn. I always felt that Moynihan train hall was an attempt to revive that grand feeling of penn, but i remember when i first visited the hall i felt that although it was beautiful it still isnt enough, and i believe that everyone has felt the same way. Nyc deserves a feeling of grandeur and beauty which rethink penn accomplishes.
London and Paris don't have through-running train termini. Whatever happens at ground level and above ground, the major problem below ground are the narrow platforms. Plus, the rebuilding of the Hudson and East River tunnels is a priority. Collapsed tunnels mean no trains.
I live in Philadelphia. I wish our local government had the will to take on projects like that. Philadelphia used to be the envy of the world. Now it's just NYC's poor brother. Awesome material.
@@eriklakeland3857 I am sure it's going to look spectacular. Philly can only dream about something like that. But yeah, our train system is pretty good. However, we don't have as much train traffic as they do, even if you combine 30th Street and Suburban. Not even close. I mean, I don't want Philly to spend 7billion on one object. Plenty of great potential, no political will, aka dormant Penn's Landing, never ending project as an example. This would never happen in NYC.
I’m still pissed about the original Penn Station being demolished, despite happening almost 30 years before I was born. What a tragedy. “One entered the city like a god. One scuttles in now like a rat.” -Vin Sculley
If you haven't already, give a listen to the Well There's Your Problem podcast's episode on historic preservation. They go into a lot more detail about how all the good buildings were torn down and the bad ones get preserved (oversimplification).
NYC's signature is modernity. Tear down the old. Build the newest. Bye bye Penn Station. Bye bye Pennsylvania Hotel. Tear em down. Build something new.
The B1M became one of the best sources of inspiration for me when it comes to seeing the 'big picture'. Changed my ways of thinking about scale, needs, reasoning, validation and so on. Thank you so much!
Jeez, saw the one slide showing the outside walk area and the two towers reminds one of WTC when I was last there in 1999. Sigh. Totally depressed now. Great Video as usual.
But it still keeps Madison Square Garden, which is one of the oldest arenas in the country. Would be better to build a new one on top while expanding more of the station (including more tracks and a second tunnel to NJ) but then I remember this all has roots in the Cuomo Administration so yeah….. I understand the Garden is famous and I’ve covered a sporting event in the legendary hardwood but it does need to be replaced and while I do prefer an architecturally profound Station, It’s also very convenient that the Garden is the most accessible arena by public transit in the US (besides Barclays Center) and compromises would have to be made.
The last time I was there was about 10 years ago when I took a day trip to NYC to see Howard Schultz speak. Before that was the 1980's. I was there the day before Thanksgiving coming home from college. It was busy but I got home with no problem.
A lot of those columns were plaster like a Hollywood set of the era. It was grand but decayed quickly, and few expected the massive increase in usage in the 1970s and 80s. So it’s a lot more complicated than the standing in front of a bulldozer story, though the easy story does have some truth to it, and is what saved Grand Central.
I’m just happy that NYC seems to be getting more bold about improving the city in major ways. In the past I would’ve been skeptical, but after seeing the new LaGuardia for example, change seems possible.
Rethink Penn Station's idea is my favorite it features beautiful architecture while also paying respect to history and taking heavy inspiration from the old building
The original building was so beautiful, it’s heartbreaking it got demolished 😭 but I just love the new design of the old building with all the green space!
Born and raised in NYC, I have seen NYC, up and Down, but NYC became slum village new York had so much light due to work and cleaning and industrial revolution. Dream come true city in one point. Skyscraper development, cleaning city clean city, inspired by art and economic impact. It need more rebuild and cleaning. My dream it was so most magical city in the world.
I wonder if there would be any protests if the city wanted to tear down the Garden? Penn Station rebuild will also need new tubes under the Hudson, The current tubes under the river for Amtrak are on their last legs.
As much as i want Penn Station to be built back into its glory, Madison Square Garden has become such a staple there that unless they move it, there is no possible way any above ground stuff is going to happen.
New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road don’t really have plans to integrate their systems beyond Penn Station, that’s why it’s a terminus for both. Amtrak does go through, but only certain Northeast Corridor trains. (The Palmetto from Savanna terminates in NY, same for the Adirondack from Montreal, the Maple Leaf from Toronto, and all “Empire Service” trains from Albany and Buffalo.)
That neoclassical re-imagining of the station is just amazing. Build it! Future generations will be grateful.
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
It would look nice but it would also waste all the money that’s going into the current above ground renovation
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
Really though, thats the best option i think anyone could ask for. 30th street in philly, designed with the same elements is a wonderful train station, and NYC deserves on just as grand if not more then
@@TatersEatsCrayons I am not sure that style would be more expensive than a modern style. In fact, with modern contruction capabilities, it might actually be cheaper to build. It is tried and true design.
ReThink Penn Station 's proposal is honestly the best out of all shown here
I'm good with either of the two plans to partially or fully rebuild the original station.
@@LaneCorbett just bring through running to Penn Station, lowkey that's the most important thing they could do
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@Electro_Sykes paint will definitely improve the disaster
Yes! Would love to see them honor the original McKim, Mead & White design.
being a biweekly commuter from college down to NYC to visit my family, I used to take Penn Station directly to board my train, but it honestly just became way too crowded over the years and ever since Moynihan train hall opened a few years ago, I've never looked back. Would love to see Penn Station get redone and rebuilt from the ground up, it's one of those things in the city that REALLY needs a giant upgrade.
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
@@electro_sykes a new coat of paint will not stop making it feel like you’re entering the city like rats
@@electro_sykes Which would solve absolutely NONE of its problems, why do you keep repeating this nonsense?
@@electro_sykes Wrong again you pedophile
Till to this day, I'm so sad and angry that they demolished such beautiful architecture. I wish the old station was spared.
Don't worry I put a curse on the Knicks so they never win a NBA championship.
@@commodorezero lol
@@commodorezeroWell, at least they did win one back in…. 1973!!! Damn! Fifty freaking years!
Me too!
But if it hadn't been lost
despite the efforts of
many of us "little people"
as well as by celebs to
save it; the general public
and the politicians would
not have realized what is
at stake by thoughtlessly
tearing down Old NYC.
Then loss of Penn station
😒was not totally in vain.
If only .... we had been
able to stop the rise of
those ugly ("modern")
glass rectangles/squares
in mid-town and fruther
south in Manhattan,
NYC! 😒
(Set back structures like
the Empire state, are much
more elegant than the
high-rise "boxes". ... AND ...
Set back high-rise structures
also allow much more natural
light to reach street level)
@@commodorezero
Ha!
I'm not knowledgeable about architecture but this channel's top tier quality content makes me appreciate it even more with every video I watch!
Thank you SO much!! That seriously means a lot to us 🙌
@@TheB1M thank you so much as well!! I've learned a lot from the videos you guys create!
Just like wine the more you taste the better your knowledge and understanding. 👍🏻
2:16 While that is “a” Penn Station, it’s not THAT Penn Station! Your photo is of the very much still standing NEWARK Penn Station in Newark, NJ which opened in 1935. Aside from an elevated bridge going right into its front, it is still a pretty Deco building in a city that, while still Newark, is sure as heck better than it was in the 80s! Downtown Newark has a state-of-the art arena called the Prudential Center, new local restaurants, and the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. Newark Penn is shared by the Newark Light Rail (aka the Newark City Subway because some stations are underground), NJT rail, Amtrak, PATH (subway between NJ and NYC), NJT buses, and Greyhound buses so it's very much a hub.
The Moynihan Train Hall upgrade to NY Penn Station was definitely needed! I like the mix of the old and the new, not to mention it's within the James A. Farley post office building that was also designed by the McKim, Mead & White trio who worked on the original Penn Station that was once next door (they worked on the Brooklyn Museum and Columbia's main campus too). Sure it's different from the original Penn, but it's better than nothing! NYC is the "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere" city, and it deserves an Amtrak hub that welcomes tourists with a grand "Yes, you CAN make it here!"
I have no idea about construction and architecture, but the amount of knowledge that I'm getting from these videos is insane. And I'm enjoying every bit of it!
I remember the original station as a boy. It dwarfed Grand Central. Tourists that gawk and take selfies in Grand Central, will never realize how much more grander the former Penn Station was.
Penn Station has been a large part of my life growing up in NJ and now living in NYC. Cant be understated how bad the old station was. The good news is I feel happy everytime Im at Penn Station and see some the improvements. The opening up of the lower level has totally changed the feel of the place and I love it. So excited for even more improvements down the road.
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
@@electro_sykes Stop spamming nonsense.
@@Nikki_the_G Some Asbestos Removal and a coat of paint is really all PENN Station needs.
@@Nikki_the_G Be careful, Electro_Skyles is a convicted child rapist. He was found guilty of raping boys. Be careful.
I've only been to Penn Station once but despite all its issues which I wasn't aware of, I'm extremely impressed with its current state, multi level trains and subways going like 5 or 6 floors underground is pretty impressive in itself and then a whole stadium sitting on top. Whacky stuff.
It’s an arena, not a stadium
As someone who has lived in and around NYC for a total of about 7 years and has traveled through many of the train and subway stations, it's truly bizarre to hear someone describe Penn Station as impressive.
Some of the highest quality content on TH-cam! Thank you!
You're welcome! Thanks so much!!
Although the original Penn Station was lost, because of the rise of preservation movement as a result, the people pulled through when it comes to saving Grand Central Terminal from a similar fate. As proposed by its then owner Penn Central in 1968, it was to be replaced by a Marcel Breuer office building design that looked like a shoebox lid on its side. When Jacqueline Kennedy heard this, she was having NONE of it. She joined the fight in 1975 with the Municipal Art Society and had a conference at the famous Oyster Bar where she said, "If we don’t care about our past, we can’t have very much hope for our future." Thanks to Jacqueline convincing the mayor (Abraham Beame), the terminal was ultimately saved by the city's Landmark Preservation Commission (created after Penn was demolished), but this was challenged by Penn Central in a Supreme Court case. In 1978, the court ruled in favor of the city. And the most beautiful building in NYC was saved.
The last time I was at Penn Station in my most beloved city was a couple of years ago. Some of those passageways are literally only 7-8 feet in height. Rats use the pipes along the ceiling to travel all over the station. When a couple were running over my head, my daughter screamed and I was like, "Hey, need to catch train out to Jersey!" When they knocked down the original Penn Station, it lead to the development of the NYC Landmark Division. I don't think anyone will miss this one though...
They have made some improvements. The ceiling was raised as well as the widening of the corridors on top of the new Moynihan train Hall which is pretty nice.
It's a start. Hopefully they will continue the improvements.
th-cam.com/video/EPcLK94IZIo/w-d-xo.html
It smells like piss and theirs violent crime inside. Spending billions in handouts to private companies to build a new one is a cheaper solution I guess...
To be fair ... rats are just part of city life. But Penn Station is indeed awful
Some may call it idealistic, but I think that there isn't really much of a competition in what needs to be done with Penn Station. Tearing down the historic terminal was one of the worst mistakes in NYC development history, and now we have a unique opportunity to rectify that.
I'd take a beautiful world-class station over a real estate scheme masquerading as a public-works project any day.
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes The least they could do is open the main entrances Moynihan train hall 24/7, taking night trains from Penn Station as it is now is a nightmarish labyrinth since the way-finding signs become useless after they shut down certain corridors at night.
@@joshualee-reid867 Sad to see how NYC has turned into an 18 hour city, and not 24 hour city, as it once was. Central Park, Penn Station, were once open 24 hours. If this continues, they will shut down certain subway lines as well. This is now being considered. The "city that never sleeps," will be a thing of the past.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
ReThinkNYC needs to win. Not just because the original Penn Station is one of America's most iconic and important landmarks, and an artistic treasure, but also because the station needs that massive space. Hochul's plan is just a renovation and expansion, which isn't enough, because MSG is still taking up the vast majority of the space. Transit needs to be the priority. Not built around an arena.
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
But msg is the most iconic arena in the world, and iconic places in nyc. They can’t just tear it down, because then they would have to rebuild it somewhere, and current nba/nhl arenas in major cities cost billions of dollars to rebuild, and considering it would be replacing the most iconic arena in the world, the total cost of the arena alone would be $4 billion. There isn’t enough money for that. They have to be realistic.
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 Yet Hochul's plan is going to be at least $7B. I understand that MSG is legendary, but the unfortunate reality is that the original Penn Station should've never been torn down in the first place. Transit is more important than a sports arena, and MSG is taking up the vast majority of the space, making it very difficult to fix Penn. Hochul's plan is built around MSG, which exactly the problem. Sports arenas should be around transit. Not the other way around. I refuse to believe that that narrow street level alleyway is going to provide enough capacity necessary to serve New York. New York needs the space of Penn Station. And besides, Penn Station is an iconic landmark in its own right that deserves to exist alongside of relocated MSG. The Hudson Yards still has vacant space, so that's where ReThinkNYC wants to move it, which is only a few blocks west of Penn Station.
Edit: Actually, I've discovered that ReThink actually wants to relocate MSG one block east of Penn Station on Broadway at Herald Square, right behind where Hotel Pennsylvania was, which would honestly be even better, because rebuilding Penn Station would mean rebuilding the full vision McKim had, including rebuild the Hotel Pennsylvania, and connecting the hotel and MSG directly to Penn Station via an underground pedestrian tunnel. Penn Station is already being connected to the Herald Square stop via an underground pedestrian bridge, so why not link them all together?
@@gabetalks9275 most people alive today don’t remember or weren’t alive for when the original penn station existed. The arena is here to stay, they’ll tear down skyscrapers before they tear it down. The station can be rebuilt larger without that outlandishly ornate and expensive plan.
ReThink Penn Station is the most hopeful project I have seen in years. Rebuilding the original Penn Station would create a new monumental icon for New York and the US. It is 100% the best plan. Rebuild old Penn Station now!
Fun fact: many of the platform stairs that were a part of the original station (seen at 1:29 & 1:46) survived the renovation and can still be seen, such as at 7:25.
Wow that's crazy! I had no idea, looking at the frames you're totally right. Where did you learn that? Is there a book or website or something about it?
@@mjbaldwin Have traveled through Penn station plenty of times. After going to the wiki page for the old Penn Station and seeing the photos, I couldn’t unsee it.
Just one of many things this video is wrong about (“entirely different” - no the platforms are the same, narrow, and the low ceilings in the LIRR level until recently were little changed from the original.) B1M also conflates Penn South, now essentially canceled, with the new plan to put a big glass hall in front of MSG. And Rethink is ignorant of tunnel limitations, east and west. The trains from NJ already run through, for storage midday, and cannot run both ways at peak because the LIRR needs to stuff masses of people into Manhattan from 50+ miles east. The schedules could never work even if they were the same agency, with the tunnels east. Rethink has a different agenda, stopping Penn South in any new plan to replace the old plan, since it’s preservationist. Recreating old Penn and moving MSG are a waste of money when other priorities would actually do more for service.
@@kitchin2 Damn bro; do you really expect me to read that wall of text that is no doubt related to nothing in my original comment?
The Rethink Penn Station proposals would, to a great extent, put right a terrible wrong done to New York City in the 1960s. I hope the powers that be in NY have sufficient pride in their town to take up that far better plan.
I haven’t been to Penn Station in many years now. However, as a child I can clearly remember that Penn Station was the type of place that parents absolutely insisted on holding onto the hands of younger children. Penn Station is such a weird and confusing maze that it would be very easy to lose a member of your party in that maze, especially a child. Moreover, what’s terrible is that for many people this dark and dingy train station is their first impression of New York City!
I remember taking the train to Penn for the first time. I felt hyped because it was Amtrak, not Metro-North, and thought it would’ve been better than GCT. I was so wrong in so many ways. When I saw a Casey Neistat video where he briefly talked about why Penn Station sucks and the old one was better I was hooked on knocking down this entire monstrosity and rebuilding the original station.
Hey, I would ride the A Train from Uptown Manhattan into Penn Station's lowest level, walk clear across the low level onto an Escalator, up to the second level then up to the first level on to 7th Ave every Saturday in the 80's and 90's. The saddest day for me was when they closed the Arcade on the Low level. Penn Station was massive yes, but it was cool at the same time.
I only been to Penn Station once as a kid and I remember loving how maze-like it was lmao.
A dark and dingy station is still a better first impression than trash bags and sacks on sidewalks everywhere in the city. I haven't seen that in any first and second world country. Sad, so sad. Make billionaires pay taxes!
I love the idea of them rebuilding the old penn station but sadly I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon.
You don’t want to do something boring and retro though. Leave that to Disney. But a reimagining in kinda the same rough outlines as the original station, but with new materials and more light and curves, would be great. Just picture something the French would do, and do that!
Rebuilding the old is not always a good idea, mostly because the old did not exist anymore, but you always can pay homage to it in a new and contemporary way
@@marcosv.ribeiro1073 just because something was “old” doesn’t mean it can’t be rebuilt. Many “revival” styles were simply designs from an older era being brought back such as “gothic revival”, Beaux Arts which was inspired by renaissance and Baroque, Tudor revival and etc etc I don’t see why we can’t build in old styles since a lot of people enjoy it more than modern architecture
@@danopticon "You don’t want to do something boring and retro though" good that in my country after the IIWW there wasn't many people like you and we rebuilt a lot of our cities. Old Penn Station would be a architectural masterpiece today, current building is trash and the proposal looks like any other station in the world.
@@danopticon Have you seen the artist impression of the neoclassical building? There is nothing boring about that.
honestly being a long islander who often needs to take the LIRR into the city, Penn station is so miserable that as soon as the new line to grand central opened up ive chosen to wait upwards of 35 minutes if i have the time to choose a grand central train instead of one going into Penn. I doubt many people would choose penn if they had the option between the two so some renovation is much appreciated
If Penn Station really is the busiest station in the western hemisphere as stated in this video, then the great city of New York should turn this into something truly fitting of that statistic. I am from and live in Scotland, there are more people in NYC than the whole of Scotland by a very long way. Building a truly beautiful and efficient station would not only benefit New Yorkers but, if done right, could become another amazing reason to visit NYC - just like Grand Central. Get this right and it really could become yet another jewel in The Empire State's crown.
Sadly experience tells us that the decisions will be made by bankers, investors, developers, etc.
Money talks the loudest. That's why Penn Station is exactly what is currently is.
Please get this right NYC, you could really create something beautiful again. It's been too long.
“Through [Penn Station] one entered the city like a god. Perhaps it was really too much. One scuttles in now like a rat.”
- Vincent Scully, art historian
This project will probably take two decades to complete
Loved this! I have a few connections. I was very young when it was still there but I remember the old Penn Station. After it was demolished my father (IBEW Local 3 electrical workers union) helped build One Penn Plaza, the office building that sits above the old station, next to Madison Square Garden. Later, ironically, he also worked on some of the "renovations" of the "new" Penn Station LIRR concourse. That was the worst part of the station and not at all befitting the busiest commuter rail line in America. I lived on Long Island and went through there very often. The Amtrak section was much much airier and nicer. So many proposals to redo Penn Station have been floated over the years. I truly hope this one comes to fruition.
Whenever I hear about developers complain about a proposed office development delaying project because there’s no demand for it- i yell and say pivot! Massive demand for housing ideally affordable. Just do more of that
The problem is that a lot of it just becomes luxury housing. Not affordable housing. Also, try getting any of the New York property developers to agree to building affordable housing on prime real estate in Midtown. You'd have a better chance seeing the New York Knicks raising a title banner in the next 10 years.
That's a nice pipe dream. Affordable housing is never just that because so much is bought by foreign countries and hedge funds.
That's happened to a few projects here in the Raleigh, NC area. They were intended for office space but with the softening of the office market and a strong demand for housing (this area is booming), some of what had been intended for offices is going to be homes instead.
@@JeffDeWitt Raleigh real estate market isn't as inflated as NYC's though. Especially because of the location. Which is what throws all common sense and logic out of whack. What should be a prime spot for new, sensible housing developments will either be more office space and luxury housing because "LOL MIDTOWN!"
@@GreenHornet553 Oh I know it's not inflated like NYC, and am thankful. But the laws of supply and demand still hold, greater supply helps keep costs down.
I like to watch B1M while eating food. I don't know why, but it's amazing
Bon appetit!
Im eating my pasta wathcing this RN lol\
@@TheB1M Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
Vin Scully said it best about Penn Station. ‘ We used to come into New York like kings, now we come in like rats’!
'One used to enter New York like a king, now one scurries in like a rat'
I have watched you since WAY back now (my husband died week before last and I’ve been reminiscing) him and I, being a gay couple… we sorta turned the TH-camrs that we constantly watched our family because you all were there with through so much … and Simon you were easily one of th first we found and I find myself wanting to say something only realizing you have no idea who we are …. So now I’m sitting here on my birthday and I needed something to occupy my mind so I decided to write this anyhow to let you know that John suddenly died and Joey is trying to manage… thanks for all of your hard work and amazing times you spent entertaining and teaching us!
I was thinking what to watch on TH-cam and then 2 minutes later this video came up. B1M giving me life
Haha, you're welcome!
@@TheB1M Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL STATION, IMPROVED AND MODERNIZED, LIKE THE ONE PROPOSAL !
Super excited to see the visualization work I'm doing land on the B1M!!! Love your channel and all the info you provide. :)
Well, truth be told, I am old enough to remember walking through the Penn Station they demolished. It was awesome.
Great videos! Keep up the good work!
Port Authority needs a hold overhaul!!
The ReThink Penn Station would be so great to see built! We already have a lot of very modern architecture with Hudson Yards right next door so some return of beautiful and iconic neoclassical would be good.
6:10 Can confirm I used to have to walk a new path from the train what seemed like every day. And plus now all the benefits of Penn (Rose’s Pizza and huge 26oz beers) have been closed since COVID.
I started taking the Grand Central line.
i remember rose's pizza...the best and cheapest slices and rolls...
Rooting for Rethink Penn Station. Their vision is spectacular. It would be amazing to see a revitalization of one of the world’s greatest structures.
what a beuatiful homeless shelter
As a visitor to New York city from Geelong Australia in 2018, I didn't mind Penn Station. Someone commented that it's the worst in the world. Um...nope! In Victoria (the state Geelong is in) our railways are behind a lot of places in the world...unfortunately because the state has some wonderful places in it. I found New York's railway so easy to get around.
I like the plan of sheathing MSG in glass and gutting the arena interior to expose the train terminal below. IMO it'd be awesome! This is even coming from someone who had his college graduation and been to events at MSG; would not mind at all for an awesome train station to replace the old arena
And what about the $5 billion cost to replace the arena somewhere?
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 The MSG elite should pay for the relocation themselves.
@@primercommentario you can’t force someone to do that arbitrarily out of spite
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 bootlicker, and yes you can.
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 You just don't want change. But change is inevitable, my friend. And the elite will be taught a lesson
The 1960s may have been the absolute worst time for architecture and city planning. Bland plain concrete, overemphasis on car centric design, questionable zoning practices, just to name a few. Demolition of original Penn Station is icing on the terrible cake.
Such awesome news that they want to rebuild it! I just talked with someone about the old station and the ancient buildings it was inspired by, and now i come home to hear about this!
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
Americans that haven’t traveled don’t realize how poor our infrastructure is. Even our newer ones, other countries look like you time traveled to the future
Probably NYC biggest architectural crime: demolition of the old Penn Station
this and singer building
Nah, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
good thing it didn't happen to Grand Central.
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
I love it now. Total chaos. An underground multi level maze and you don't want to get into the older bathrooms. A bit more AC is all it needs.
The anger I feel over the original Penn being demolished...
Just move Madison Square Garden to Hunter's Point in Queens. There's a massive transit hub there already with multiple subway lines and Long Island Railroad passing through, and the northern part of Hunter's Point is mostly low-rise warehouse space which is already in the process of being torn down and turned into high-rise apartments.
Hunter's Point is also away from the CBD in Midtown, which means that office commuters and those attending sports/music events at MSG wouldn't be jammed together into the same station. People taking the train to MSG from New Jersey would have a slightly longer journey, but they could just switch trains from NJTransit to the LIRR at New Penn Station or hop on the subway to get to Hunter's Point without much hassle, given the transit network already there.
if they didnt destroy the old one, they wouldnt have to change that much for an updated station
It took them four times longer to demolish the old Penn Station than they’d anticipated, because it was so solidly and well built. 😢
@@danopticon Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes im not saying that they should rebuild it. its just if they havent demolished it in the first place, it would have been so much better
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
I hope the ReThinkNYC proposal is built. It’s got the best design
thanks for your awesome content!
agree!
I’d be overjoyed if they would build a reimagined version of the original station. It’s so sad how many amazing structures like Penn Station were torn down in the 60s to put up brutalist monstrosities in their place
Feds urban renewal movement destroyed entire neighborhood in Boston with huge high rises is its place the ugly brutality city hall with finally reimagined windy Brick desert area surrounding it unused 99% of time it is being humanized since 2020 with trees play area more benches and green space. And a great swath if downtown Salem ma was torn down for ugly useless architecture.
They'll just move the arena and call it "Madison Cube Garden". I believe it was mentioned in that documentary on Fox a few years ago. Futurama or something like that.
Futurama joked about 'Madison shapes' but the owners of MSG are actually building a Madison Sphere in London and the locals aren't too pleased because the whole exterior will be used to broadcast adverts into the air like something out of Bladerunner.
For all the criticism about Penn Station, it’s the same tracks and platforms since it was built. They just removed the building above it. Improved capacity through the North River Tunnels and additional tracks/platforms would be New Jersey’s burden.
Through running will never happen since NJ transit has incompatible equipment with the LIRR and Metro North. There is no standard signalizing or electrification among the three railroads. That’ll cost WAY more than a new Penn Station will in and of itself. Besides, they don’t want people on the platforms for no reason. Keep ‘em clear to de-train, and once they’re clear, you can begin the boarding process. This ain’t rocket science.
Also, how does this affect Amtrak, which owns Penn Station? Is the state of New York buying it from them?
lmfao, you think Amtrak isn’t responsible for the tunnels also???? 😂 Northeast Corridor not that important?? You seem to know what you’re talking about but implying that NY and NYC don’t have a part in it and aren’t the ultimate decision-maker on the matter is laughable. Part of me wishes that the tunnels became inoperable and the station unusable so the city saw the catastrophic effects would be on the NYC economy. Believe it or not, it’s the heart of NYC pumping commuters in & out.
@@word42069 You think I underestimate the importance of the North River Tunnels and the GWB being the two chokepoints of the economy? THAT is laughable. All I'm saying is Amtrak owns Penn Station. The state through the LIRR is a tenant. I'm sure people more closely related to this proposed project would be able to discern responsibilities of each party involved in reconstructing Penn. Maybe a change in ownership is part of this process.
They should've moved Madison square garden to Hudson yards as part of a much larger plan with foresight which some of us proposed back then.
ReThinkNYC is planning to do exactly that. They want to connect it to a massively expanded Javits Center.
The current Penn Station isn’t exactly a replacement of the original structure. The platforms and stairs up are original. When Penn Station was demolished, they didn’t tear the whole thing down, they just chopped off the top and replaced the public train halls with the underground warrens.
I love how the ad within this video about Penn Station just ever so smoothly snuck in there. Just glided it’s way in. Smooth operator.
8:11 ... the small point the guess forgot is that Penn station is mainly a terminal station, because east of the station is LIRR railroad operations, and west is NJTransit operations, only Amtrak operates right thru trains thru the stations
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes just stop. NY Penn Station needs these upgrades as well as having the Gateway Program completed would bring so much room for expansion across all of the commuter railroads.
@@electro_sykes "coat of paint" have you actually BEEN inside Penn? It needs way more than that
@@youtubesewersocialist ok, and maybe some of the asbestos needs to be removed, but other than that, all it needs is a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes My point still stands and you're still wrong. You need glasses! Recommend Cohen's Fashion Optical!
I was there for the first time last November, it was absolutely chaotic in the station, coming from someone who used London King's Cross frequently
As someone who travels to NY often, Penn needs to be modernised and upgraded, it's honestly terrible and pretty confusing
Error relating to London - most mainline stations in London are terminuses. Paddington, Euston, Waterloo, King’s Cross, Liverpool Street etc. However, changes with Elizabeth Line, Crossrail 2 (proposal) link some of these stations better than the underground, but still are not through running. Furthermore HS2 project will bring new options like at Old Oak Common (so passengers could avoid changing in central London.
While old Penn was a terrible loss, Moynihan is a small glimpse of what once was, a decent improvement, with a more modern style. Still the renovation is an improvement, and I'll take it over what we have now any day.
"Rethink Penn Station" has the right idea. Give us back the old station, as much as possible.
$7billion to improve transit at the busiest station in the western hemisphere, in one of its most important cities with potential scope to increase passenger numbers to a million a day, with numerous sky scrapers being built around it.
$7billion should be nothing to the city of new york, but also to the state, and to the country as a whole.
Should be an absolute no brainer, and with the number of supporting developments, around it, which would see an increase in retail, leisure (maybe a new MSG) living, office and hotel space. How the hell is it in question that it might break even?!
You'd get better returns on this than buying into a social media company.
Rebuilding it to its former glory is far too expensive. Besides, Penn Station is fine. All it needs is just a coat of paint.
@@electro_sykes It needs remodeling IMHO
It would cost $4-5 billion alone just to build a new msg. I do t think they’ll be able to do much with penn station after that.
Will we ever recover from the mass destruction of infrastructure during the 60s?
Rethink Penn station is clearly what needs to be done. It couldn't be any clearer that people CRAVE for that building, for the original penn station, that feeling has gotten stronger and stronger over the years, the people need it. No other building will fill the gap. The only other acceptable idea is Washburn's design which is beautiful as well but even that one wont be enough. People crave for og penn. I always felt that Moynihan train hall was an attempt to revive that grand feeling of penn, but i remember when i first visited the hall i felt that although it was beautiful it still isnt enough, and i believe that everyone has felt the same way. Nyc deserves a feeling of grandeur and beauty which rethink penn accomplishes.
But what about msg?
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 They plan to relocate MSG to the Hudson Yards and connect it to a massively expanded Javits Center.
London and Paris don't have through-running train termini. Whatever happens at ground level and above ground, the major problem below ground are the narrow platforms. Plus, the rebuilding of the Hudson and East River tunnels is a priority. Collapsed tunnels mean no trains.
Bingo
I wish they would go with the classic design rethink put forward! It is beautiful!!
6:15 that main hall looks beautiful
I live in Philadelphia. I wish our local government had the will to take on projects like that. Philadelphia used to be the envy of the world. Now it's just NYC's poor brother. Awesome material.
NYC should be emulating Philly’s thru running trains not spending $7Billion on little more than an architectural wank.
@@eriklakeland3857 I am sure it's going to look spectacular. Philly can only dream about something like that. But yeah, our train system is pretty good. However, we don't have as much train traffic as they do, even if you combine 30th Street and Suburban. Not even close. I mean, I don't want Philly to spend 7billion on one object. Plenty of great potential, no political will, aka dormant Penn's Landing, never ending project as an example. This would never happen in NYC.
@@eriklakeland3857but they already built the east side access
Pennsylvania Station 4•12......Be@utiful renovation amongst within the city!
I’m still pissed about the original Penn Station being demolished, despite happening almost 30 years before I was born. What a tragedy.
“One entered the city like a god. One scuttles in now like a rat.”
-Vin Sculley
You should see how much we demolished in the UK. Sickening.
Said by art historian Vincent Scully, not the late Dodgers announcer Vin Scully.
If you haven't already, give a listen to the Well There's Your Problem podcast's episode on historic preservation. They go into a lot more detail about how all the good buildings were torn down and the bad ones get preserved (oversimplification).
@JohnnyZenith Its genuinely sickening seeing beautiful works of art destroyed for characterless shoeboxes
NYC's signature is modernity. Tear down the old. Build the newest. Bye bye Penn Station. Bye bye Pennsylvania Hotel. Tear em down. Build something new.
The B1M became one of the best sources of inspiration for me when it comes to seeing the 'big picture'. Changed my ways of thinking about scale, needs, reasoning, validation and so on. Thank you so much!
Jeez, saw the one slide showing the outside walk area and the two towers reminds one of WTC when I was last there in 1999. Sigh. Totally depressed now. Great Video as usual.
But it still keeps Madison Square Garden, which is one of the oldest arenas in the country. Would be better to build a new one on top while expanding more of the station (including more tracks and a second tunnel to NJ) but then I remember this all has roots in the Cuomo Administration so yeah…..
I understand the Garden is famous and I’ve covered a sporting event in the legendary hardwood but it does need to be replaced and while I do prefer an architecturally profound Station, It’s also very convenient that the Garden is the most accessible arena by public transit in the US (besides Barclays Center) and compromises would have to be made.
Thank you for sharing this new train station.
The rethink penn station design looks great
The last time I was there was about 10 years ago when I took a day trip to NYC to see Howard Schultz speak. Before that was the 1980's. I was there the day before Thanksgiving coming home from college. It was busy but I got home with no problem.
When ever I see a Penstationpicture from the beginning of the 20th century I almost wanna cry how can you demolish such a marvel it's just sad.
A lot of those columns were plaster like a Hollywood set of the era. It was grand but decayed quickly, and few expected the massive increase in usage in the 1970s and 80s. So it’s a lot more complicated than the standing in front of a bulldozer story, though the easy story does have some truth to it, and is what saved Grand Central.
No one ever mentions how well the script is. The delivery and presentation is the cherry on top.
As always, great coverage of an interesting topic. Concise and thoughtful review that puts B1M in a class of its own - once again, best thanks.
I’m just happy that NYC seems to be getting more bold about improving the city in major ways. In the past I would’ve been skeptical, but after seeing the new LaGuardia for example, change seems possible.
Currently living in NYC and I have slowly seen the change in Penn Station, and I like what I am seeing so far, just need a bit more security :P
The biggest problem with Penn station is the filth, smell, vagrants, criminals, how does this massive infrastructure spend address these problems?
Rethink Penn Station's idea is my favorite it features beautiful architecture while also paying respect to history and taking heavy inspiration from the old building
The original building was so beautiful, it’s heartbreaking it got demolished 😭 but I just love the new design of the old building with all the green space!
7BN plan? Final cost will be 20BN+ with 15 years delay if ever happens
Born and raised in NYC, I have seen NYC, up and Down, but NYC became slum village new York had so much light due to work and cleaning and industrial revolution. Dream come true city in one point. Skyscraper development, cleaning city clean city, inspired by art and economic impact. It need more rebuild and cleaning. My dream it was so most magical city in the world.
They've done a great job on Penn so far
I wonder if there would be any protests if the city wanted to tear down the Garden?
Penn Station rebuild will also need new tubes under the Hudson, The current tubes under the river for Amtrak are on their last legs.
The B1m is the my favourite you tube channel
0:53 anyone notice the guy with akatsuki themed jacket
Sounds like Americas version of HS2. Sounds like a lot of money now? Wait until it goes over budget.
Such stupid "forward-thinking" 1960s NY city government leaders & greedy developers who destroyed that beautiful original Penn Station.
2:27: It was that demolition that led to the formation of the Institute of Classical Architecture and Art.
And what lead to the laws that saved Grand Central.
@@filanfyretracker True.
Just curious. Why are the Twin Towers present in the mockup at 3:47?
As much as i want Penn Station to be built back into its glory, Madison Square Garden has become such a staple there that unless they move it, there is no possible way any above ground stuff is going to happen.
I don’t think anyone other than hardcore sports fans gives a shit about msg tbh
@@goobot1 oh trust me. A lot of ppl do give a shit
The builders should borrow a platform or two at Penn Station to import materials by rail.
Great video!
I love watching your work!
I would just like to see more content covering other countries that aren't the US.
Why does this need to cost 7B? As a New Yorker, I don’t want 7B going to this. Fix the MTA with that 7B so people can go back and forth to work.
New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road don’t really have plans to integrate their systems beyond Penn Station, that’s why it’s a terminus for both. Amtrak does go through, but only certain Northeast Corridor trains. (The Palmetto from Savanna terminates in NY, same for the Adirondack from Montreal, the Maple Leaf from Toronto, and all “Empire Service” trains from Albany and Buffalo.)