I think season 4 of The Boys commented on toxic fandoms very well. These are just a bunch of isolated and insecure people who are aimlessly wandering, so you sell them purpose. What would you rather believe, that you’re a nobody who no one will remember or that you’re part of a band of warriors battling a secret evil that wants to specifically destroy your childhood
If this is right then that’s both sides of the coin in one metaphor. Maybe we should just stop being cunts to one another and it wouldn’t be a reflection of society.
Ah yes… continue to write off people that think differently to you as incels and pathetic… that’ll definitely narrow the cultural divide 👍🏻 Eric Kripke has been extremely vocal of his distain for Donald Trump and his supporters alike… and season 4 of the boys clearly had a message it wanted to get across. And just to be clear, i like the boys season 4… but its easily the weakest season… because it compromises its characters in favour of political commentary and to portray an obvious distaste for American conservatism… when it comes to media the consumer is always right… so creatives shouldn’t act surprised when they make something that doesn’t poke fun; but actively disdains 50% of its audience… and it fucking bombs or ends up getting low audience scores… pretending that the boys season 4 isn’t “woke” is being deliberately culture blind… creatives can put anything the want in their shows, but they cant expect everyone to like it
"Your base level of knowledge doesn't have the foundation for me to explain anything to you" is the best insult I have ever heard and I will in fact be using it from here on out.
Shout to all the wonderful moderators on The Weekly Planet online spaces, like the Facebook group, who work really hard to keep things extremely fun and non-toxic. It’s so hard to maintain that because all it takes is one person to get nasty against someone else or a group of people to start poisoning the well.
Didn’t even watch the video yet but the answer is yes. Toxic fans have made something that should be fun into such an annoying space. I’m at the point where I enjoy what I enjoy without interacting with the fanbase.
SAME. I've gotten so tired of this reactionary hysteria going on in internet circles that I've just stopped interacting with them all together. I didn't absolutely hate the marvels and if I openly admit that in some of these places I get hit with 50 trillion three letter acronyms and buzzwords and then get told I'm bringing the downfall of western civilization or something.
Right it’s the fans that make 200 million plus budgeted movies bad. There’s a difference between toxic and blatantly just making a shit product. So now that joker 2 is bombing everywhere, is it because of a toxic fanbase or is it because they marketed a musical to comic book fans? So who is really toxic here? Nothing is black and white like that. And to admit ‘I haven’t even seen the video but the answer is yes’ you have no idea what you are saying
@@Thingshavechanged1234 no its toxic fans that make discussing even mediocre movies insufferable and if you don't think fandoms to these things are a problem then you are probably the insufferable fan this video is referring to. Tbh based off your comment, you do sound exactly like the people who make these fandoms so terrible to interact with
@@chriscross4007 nice assumption buddy. Having an opinion doesn’t make a person toxic and where’s the interruption to the discussion? You are eating your own words genius. You admit In your own comment about how ‘mediocre movies can’t be discussed’ how??? Lool are people preventing you from talking or typing or something lmfao. You are the one making a discussion impossible cause you need everyone to agree with how you see things. Have a good day
@@Thingshavechanged1234 your opinion is fine. I partially agree with it. It's how you express that opinion and the way fans voice that dissatisfaction is the problem.
Some geeks just can't accept that they aren't the target demographic for everything geeky. If everything doesn't treat them as the only demographic then it's time to rage.
It’s bc there are extremely toxic individuals who hijack fandoms and condition their followers to engage in groupthink. Like that “critical drinker” guy.
It’s exhausting because it’s starts with a thing not being good but then someone like critical drinker will keep pushing this narrative that a thing sucks because of woke as opposed to a variety of factors so you can’t “go to bat,” as James said, for subpar stuff but if feels like letting a virus spread if you just let these toxic dudes spread their hate.
I dislike how much he has cheapened critical evaluation when it comes to media. Nowadays, a movie just can’t be bad because of the writing, directing, acting, cinematography, etc, it’s bad because “it’s political.”
I’m just at a point where whenever someone mentions “the fans” I immediately picture who they mean and I nope out. It sucks to be a fan of most things because some moron who hates black people will scream at the top of their lungs that they hate whatever show or movie it is and that they’re speaking on your behalf. Like mate…sit down. I hope studios realize that catering to them is a fruitless endeavor because “the fans” don’t reflect the box office, and maybe the better course of action is just keep taking big swings and trying creative new things so you can create new fans.
Heres the thing… how do we define toxic fandoms? Because if you make something that people don’t like, they’re going to complain, but valid criticism and death threats are two different things entirely and its rarely the same people doing both
I think the studios are using the anti-woke toxic fans as an excuse for their own failures. It helps them ignore real criticisms. My GF and I don't care about the color or gender of the characters. But we stopped watching the Star Wars and Marvel shows because they're just bad. Everyone talks about how good Andor was, but really the pacing is terrible. You could skip the first 5 episodes of that or any of these show and you wouldn't miss anything. Then they try to wrap everything up in an episode or two. Also, the only way these shows get the plot to move along is that everyone makes the dumbest decisions every single time. It's frustrating how bad the writing is. But instead they say, "oh, it's the toxic fandom". BS. It is the poor quality of the product. If it was good, it wouldn't matter what basement dwelling incels felt about it.
I’ve always said this. I hate fandoms. Idc what it is they become very demanding and tbh for better or worse I rather have an artist make the product they want not what pleases everyone.
This is soooo true especially the part about gaming. I love gaming but the community is always so exhausting to engage with. People will say concord failed bc it was woke bc it has pronouns but no story at all but bend over backwards to say bg3 actually wasn't woke even though it's the gayest game ever
@@li-limandragon9287 oh I know, I've played it and I agree. But it's impossible to have a real discussion on the reasons it didn't do well since its drowned out by people claiming it's bc pronouns or bc the tank woman was brown and not hot enough or blame some dei nonsense as if that would have been good if it had all white muscular men instead
@@chriscross4007I so agree with this sentiment. I don’t like the Acolyte, it was slow, wasted potential and characters weren’t that compelling. But every “criticism” I see online is just talking about how woke culture, lesbian witches or Black Jedi are ruining Star Wars. Wether you like or dislike a product, you need to have a REAL reason for it
The worst part about all of this is that studios are just making (or going to make) all the wrong conclusions. The "lets just make shite using AI coz its cheap" doesn't solve nobody caring about what you make because they're tired of media oversaturation. The theory that "black communities will now watch and accept our franchise because we cast someone who looks like them" doesn't hold any water IF you make the project bland and proceed to throw them under the bus when things fail. No wonder people leave these franchises; noisy racism (etc) from trolls online AND getting the blame from your corporate bosses who want to collect another insane bonus while implying that your race (or whatever element) caused the project to fail; which it almost certainly DIDN'T! These are the same executives (in some cases LITERALLY) who wanted to make a Hellboy movie but do the Hulk instead.
Im happy enough for any chance for some nerd-bashing, but studios could easily avoid all this by putting more money into original content in the first place.
I think you guys eventually found the middle ground here; people are not willing to settle for mediocre content anymore. Toxic fandoms go both ways; there are people who are unwilling to admit criticism and those unwilling to admit highlights. The majority of fans are somewhere in the middle but the critics are consistently labeled as toxic (some absolutely fucking are) while those that blindly adore the products are called true fans (you can absolutely like something, but nothing is perfect) we’re stuck in an environment where the two poles are the loudest and the average voice is drowned out
@@sheildingepicness I think the biggest issue with that is that when shows aren’t good, “DEI” becomes both a backbone for defense/criticism. It’s why the Acolyte was such a shit show to discuss online. By the end of it you couldnt even discuss the plot of the show without a supporter saying you didn’t like it because it’s a diverse cast that threatens the white man or a hater saying you liked it because it’s woke and you don’t care about Star Wars. It really is exhausting because we all just want good stories and getting bogged down in these irrelevant debates is just dividing us further.
@@sheildingepicness to be clear, totally support the idea Star Wars is for everyone, but personally I kind of always felt that it was; Lucasfilm’s insistence on pushing that point out more and more makes it feel like it hasn’t always been and I think that just ignites both sides. Everyone is welcome in this community and I think us levelheaded Weekly Planet fans represent that mindset, but the extremes think Lucasfilm is attacking their side everytime something like this comes up!
1. People misuse the word "ruining," or any form of that word. Ruined? I mean, how so? They're making tons of money. It's not stopping them from making money hand over fist. 2. If toxic fandom got us The Snyder Cut, then that was a win for everyone not just the toxic fans. Warner Brothers f#&@ed Snyder over. They kind of deserved what happened. 3. Toxic Fandoms are like Cancel Culture, or for that matter religious outcry, it's only real if you believe in it/accept it and let it influence you. Like I said previously, they are still making money hand over fist. Comic book films print money. Madame Web made over a hundred million dollars. 4. Don't stress over the alt right crypto fans. They're no more important than the studios cashing in on wokeness and making things like She Hulk. Both come and go and make no impact at all. If it's good. It's good. Look at Mad Max Fury Road. The Alt Right crypto fans tried to hate it, but it was so good they just couldn't and pretended it wasn't a feminist film when it clearly was. Then you have things like She Hulk. It came and went and no one barely even remembers it anymore. All of these voices are just farts in the wind right wing/fake woke, whatever. The cream will always rise to the top.
Don't confuse what people want, and what studios are willing to put money towards. The people don't want all these remakes/reboots/revamps. The studios just make them and there's nothing else to go see.
Studios have all the power to make their own new IPs without having to please a fanbase they have no control over but they choose not to and instead slap on the name Joker to two bad films in the hopes people would go and see that garbage. Can't just have a Taxi Driver but worse film with some mental healthcare in america overtones, they have to involve a character with decades of history and backstory, why? because MONEY. Prometheus could have just been a shitty vanity project from Ridley Scott about the origins of mankind, but he had to involve the Alien franchise in it, so not only is it a bad film, it's now a bad Alien franchise film that cost us Blomkamp Alien 5. If you use an established IP theres some expectation that you should be trying to please the fanbase that helped establish it in the first place. Movies / Shows / Games doesn't matter, if you don't then you get justified backlash and sometimes unjustified extreme backlash.
I remember being introudced to James channel before Star Wars the force awakens was out. I think things feeling underground and not in the complete mainstream really harms the excitement for these products
6:50 - Cyberpunk 2077 is a great example of this. It has tons of “woke” stuff in it, but it’s a great game with well written stories so the “woke” stuff doesn’t even stand out.
I actively don't engage in these types of circles. Especially with stuff I really like. For example My Hero Academia, one of my favorite shows, but the fandom is so toxic on every platform, I just keep my head down and watch anime and read the manga. That being said, the problem I have with this segment is that there is a lot of very valid criticism out there for all of these works of art that should be heard. The ones I've given up on on things like anything from Star Wars, Marvel, or DC strictly because they are no longer producing art, they've decided all they want to sell is product.
See I've always heard the Fandom is toxic but then alot of people who say just complain is about all the gay shipping that the Fandom does so I feel a bit skeptical towards it
@@basedchimera5859 that's not the part of the fandom that bothers me. I am making Deku fan art that's gender bent myself. I don't really care how people are the characters. That's not toxic. While watching the current episodes I am seeing nothing but hate towards the show and the writers/animators. The show has taken a hit in the animation department but it's because of the crunch and lack of funding the artists are given, and the story is straight from the manga which is still being happily received. I'm no where near as far in the manga as the show, but from what I can tell they have adapted it very well. They haven't done anything that feels out of character or gimmicky.
"fans" is inaccurate. Most of these people were never fans of the original property and were never gonna be consumers of the new thing. What they are consumers of is outrage from their favourite culture warriors
I'm not sure how mentally stunted a person would have to be to actually compare being "a fan" purely with being a consumer lol. That's so sad it's actually a little funny.
Obviously I can only speculate, but this seems to be a problem largely due to or at least associated with the generation growing up with the internet now being old enough to have productive creative roles. Source: scroll through a subreddit for any show or videogame you have a complaint about or watch a TH-cam video about it and find someone with the same complaint, click on the comments, and sure enough, within the top three comments will be something along the lines of, "this is what's wrong with Hollywood, the so called 'creative professionals' are completely out of touch with their audience and ignore their fan base." Now let's zoom out a little and take a look at the creative professionals who likely grew up in love with the art of film/television and were the ones doing deep dives on everything they watched, the amount of time they must have came across comments like these, I feel it's ingrained in them that recognizing and addressing the loud opinions is what a talented creative professional should strive to do
Studios do get a certain amount of marketing mileage from enraging fans. Difficult to say how intentional that is, but if you have a mediocre film/series/whatever and your trailers have little chance of getting anywhere on genuine excitement, put in something that pisses off the hardcore fans and they will thumbs-down you into circulation.
Currently watching the new season of true detective and enjoying in, but part of me was like “I bet there is a critical drinker video talking about it being bad /woke” low and beyond there was one . I’m not saying the show is perfect but to some audiences when you view everything as woke or big Hollywood pushing an agenda the criticism often falls outside of what the project actually is /it’s own merits.
Bad fans do suck but the fandom isn't why movies are failing. When the only films are reboots or lazy cash grabs, people get annoyed. If something is really good, the haters will get drowned out.
It is absolutely unequivocally not toxic to call shit content shit content. Rogue One stared a woman and is loved because it's a good movie. Fans cheered when four women gunned down legions of Stormtroopers in the Mando season 1 finale. When content it's good we'll praise it, but more often than not it's utter shit.
This video absolutely went over your head of you think the point being made here is that studios are blaming fans who voice their dissatisfaction with a product for the product being bad. You should probably just go watch critical drinker if you want someone to say that you should be angry at everything for being woke and everything sucks and fandoms aren't a problem
@chriscross4007 my comment has totally went over your head. As I said, the same "sexist" StarWars fans loved Rogue One. Why? Because they aren't sexist, they just don't like shit content.
@@cameronbrown940 yeah, like the video said. People will bend over backwards to say something isn't woke if its good. But if it's just okay then people will rage and say it sucks for whatever ridiculous identity politics reason like the star wars game is bad bc it stars a woman who isn't hot enough
@chriscross4007 you're part of the problem then. The acolyte didn't suck because it had a black woman as the lead, it sucked because it was shit. People like you then use false accusations of racism, sexism and every other type of ism to defend it and honestly, it's pathetic
@GenXForever I never said anything about woke, I also never said I watch critical drinker (I don't for the record). You're putting words in my mouth. I said the fans are largely not toxic, you can't tell me the same fans who idolise Leia, Padme, Ahsoka, Cara Dune, Jyn Erso, Fennec Shan, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Hera, Sabine Wren are bigots because they did t like Rey. It's pathetic and infantile to say ones dislike for a handful of female characters invalidates their love for the long list of other and makes them a sexist. Sometimes something is just shit regardless of the demographic of its actors. And the sequel trilogy is proof of that.
Sadly, this is such a well worn topic that the legitimate concerns just fall of deaf ears because everyone on every side is tired of it. I wish studio mergers and the influx of investment capital into the film industry were a ‘sexier’ topic for journalists and social media. There’s less competition, but more pressure to make a huge hit every time. Yet no additional revenue streams from physical media. ‘One Company buys another Company’ Normal Person
Joker 2 is what happens when people who buy into ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’ bs realise that’s exactly that, bs. Arthur said in both films that people weren’t listening and he was right
Toxic fandoms is a convenient cop out for studios buy rights to fan favourite movies, because it's 'easier' for them to make money, and a convenient cop out for writers who want to make a fan favourite movie 'their own'.
Mason and Nick hit the nail on the head. If these studios bring fans in, that’s how you get movies like Last Jedi (and also Rise of Skywalker). We need show runners who don’t just “understand” the IP. But creatives who have an intuitive understanding & respect for the worlds they’re adapting. Also… enough of these big epic shows with 18 month gaps. It’s exhausting!
I try my best to just avoid all the bullshit, but I can’t even scroll through TH-cam without being flooded with it. It’s so goddamn annoying. If you don’t like something, move on with your life, stop making 10 videos telling everyone why you hate it.
Yes, the people that enjoy a show or film simply watch it then carry on with the lives. The people that have decided they don't like something shout about it, make angry TH-cam videos about it and start campaigns to cancel it. Myself and my son both enjoyed the Acolyte, it wasn't the best thing ever made, but we liked it. But then you have people yelling and shouting that it much be cancelled because of black force lesbians! If you don't like it, don't watch about it, you don't have to try and actively destroy something. It's ok to not like things, but don't be a dick about the things you don't like.
I hate when articles like this come out and never mention the equally toxic portion of the fanbase that blindly love everything. Blind love and blind hate are equally as unhealthy and toxic. An example: before The Acolyte came out the Star Wars instagram page posted a picture of Carrie-Anne Moss' character holding her lightsaber and I made a comment saying "oh that lightsaber doesn't look good" and I of course got a bunch of replys calling me an incel, bigot, racist, sexist, etc. All I did was criticize the lightsaber effects which have been terrible since the sequels, but since the lead of the show just happened to be a woman of color I get a bunch of nasty replies. Its people like that, that cause studios to get lazy and complacent which leads to us getting slop instead of good products.
Problem with The Boys is that heaps of idiots and even the marketing of the show celebrate Homelander and completely miss the point that he’s supposed to be a pathetic asswipe. So many people will take things at face value.
@@li-limandragon9287 might be a little bit because Starr plays him so well. But I agree, he straight up sucks in the comics a lot worse than in the show.
When you see a piece of media you don’t like, what do you do? Do you just say to yourself, “well, that sucked” and move on with your day, or do you go online and shit on it for the next week? Answer that and you’ll have answered your question. Not liking something is fine, but dear god, people need to realize that no one gives a fuck about your opinion.
Fans are the reason the IP is popular in the first place. Fans are the reason the studio is making the project in the first place. For some reason, studios feel the need to piss off the fans in search of a different audience. Fans have a right to criticize the products. I’m sick of the toxic positivity. If these companies want to make money, they have to appeal to fans and they have to engage with the criticism.
Yes let’s appeal to the insecure minority (yourself) and not the world as a whole 😂 get a grip bro, sorry your enjoyment was ruined by diversity, other people existing, etc
@@sheildingepicness Uhh, it's the companies that are panicking. If I was a minority, they could easily ignore me, but people like me are more the majority than you would like to admit. BTW, I _am_ a minority. I was born in a rural village in india and am currently living in the US. Diversity is fine, poor writing is not and that's where my issues lie. The only insecure person here is the one who relies on ad hominem attacks. Stop defending the billion dollar corpos lil bro, they don't care about you, only your wallet.
Constant fan complaints are what you sign up for when your content is all based on existing IP. Those same fans are the reason any new film was made to begin with... the studios expect them to show up for a new entry in their beloved series. This is the natural trade-off for all this uninspired franchise-bait these studios are focused on.
Real fans of the ip are not the issue, it’s people who claim the show isn’t exactly how they want it for their specific identity politics game, like critical drinker
I disagree. It's completely reasonable to not like something and to critique it, but the people voicing these strong opinions are not creating meaningful discussions. They're hate mongering. They're going into these shows and movies with the intent of hating them simply because they don't like some small detail about it. They're creating online personalities entirely based around hating something. That's not healthy. By no means am I saying everyone that dislikes something is like this. I'm talking about the vocal crowd that creates an echo chamber on Twitter and goes around review bombing shit because they weren't personally catered to.
There’s a glut of “just fine” to “bad” stuff being thrown out constantly and the worst people can thrive in that environment by blaming the woke boogeyman for studios not giving artists and performers the time and money they need to make truly great stuff
@@majorleaguegains5597 personally, I think there are way more in depth discussions happening than most people want to admit, regardless if the project is loved or hated. Not only that, but If we're talking about hate mongering we should probably bring up over gloating as well. Obviously there will be people that hate something based purely on it's existence while some people will love something based purely on it's existence, little to no thought required on either side. I disregard these "opinions" as most other people should.
Criticism is not toxic lmao, being toxic is criticizing a product or other peoples enjoyment for some tertiary, hateful reason that doesn’t actually matter to the product/show itself (like most of the acolyte backlash that was directed at the cast/characters and not the poor plot)
@Lovicide wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately it's the extreme reactions on both sides that are benefited by the social media algorithms so that's what is seen most.
Hey if people only like your product when you make less of it, then I think you already don't have a good product. If you're complaining that Marvel is losing too much stuff, chances are you're not a Marvel fan, and you would complain about whatever thing you were watching in the first place
《The Force is Female》 "The Farce Awakens" Box Office was Over $2 Billion 《Substandard Subversion》 "The Lost Jedi" Thanos-Snapped Almost Half of the General Audience Far, Far Away 《The Fans are Toxic》 "The Ruse of Skywalker" Box Office was just Over $1 Billion ...so, You're Welcome to like TLJ "Very Much", but... ...i would Thank You to also point out that it "Very Much" Crippled the Franchise... ...the fact that Dissney then attempted to fashion an Intractable Crutch for the Franchise to hobble along on is Irrelevant... ...imo, they didn't understand how to "Fix" the Sequel Trilogy because they didn't understand where they Went Wrong because they didn't understand the Star Wars Franchise AND/OR Fandom in the first place!!! 👽 🖖 🤖
Isn't it just the Internet in general.. people give opinions, others disagree, maybe a bit of back and forth, can be entertaining to read at times.. Sometimes not.... I don't believe in toxic fandom or culture wars it's just people expressing there opinions... Be it channels or just comments and then there is discourse, all of this is meant as entertainment... And if studios are supposedly worried about fan backlash it's cause they see there not making money, no one is watching joker 2 but plenty are watching videos on joker 2... Its the way entertainment is going... If it was good people would say it's go watch it no spoilers but when it's bad... Then fair game... Tim Dillon whose in it said its the worst movie ever so... Whatever it's just a movie
No. The studios and their diehard fans who will happily consume any shit that's produced immediately blame the people who criticize the studios for making shit and being totally content with it being shit. Just because someone is critical of something you might like, it doesn't make them racists or bigots. Yet these actors come out and immediately call them racists and bigots, so how would you expect the critics to respond to that? The word "toxic" gets thrown around at every single thing that some people might not agree with to the point that it has lost all meaning. Same with "iconic."
If you are paying attention, there was definitely racist/sexist backlash to both the acolyte and Star Wars outlaws… the people who deny it are the same people who poorly justify it by being “true fans” like yourself
@@sheildingepicness Can you show me the racist backlash for either? All I saw was people calling out terrible writing and acting in the acolyte. As for outlaws, you can watch 30 minutes of gameplay and tell how underwhelming that game is. A game or show being criticized isn't racist until people start yelling out "You didn't like what I like, which happened to have a woman of color as the lead, so you're a racist and a bigot!" Also, I never claimed to be anything so by you saying that almost plays into my point. The projection is insane.
@@ZWillis12 house of dragon poc actors have shown racist dms they’ve been getting along with blk actors like Moses Ingram in the obi wan show anything that isn’t straight white or male is woke to you people try to deny all you want but hey it’s the truth
I think season 4 of The Boys commented on toxic fandoms very well. These are just a bunch of isolated and insecure people who are aimlessly wandering, so you sell them purpose. What would you rather believe, that you’re a nobody who no one will remember or that you’re part of a band of warriors battling a secret evil that wants to specifically destroy your childhood
If this is right then that’s both sides of the coin in one metaphor. Maybe we should just stop being cunts to one another and it wouldn’t be a reflection of society.
That's a ruthless interpretation, I might have to pick up watching The Boys again.
Ah yes… continue to write off people that think differently to you as incels and pathetic… that’ll definitely narrow the cultural divide 👍🏻 Eric Kripke has been extremely vocal of his distain for Donald Trump and his supporters alike… and season 4 of the boys clearly had a message it wanted to get across. And just to be clear, i like the boys season 4… but its easily the weakest season… because it compromises its characters in favour of political commentary and to portray an obvious distaste for American conservatism… when it comes to media the consumer is always right… so creatives shouldn’t act surprised when they make something that doesn’t poke fun; but actively disdains 50% of its audience… and it fucking bombs or ends up getting low audience scores… pretending that the boys season 4 isn’t “woke” is being deliberately culture blind… creatives can put anything the want in their shows, but they cant expect everyone to like it
"Your base level of knowledge doesn't have the foundation for me to explain anything to you" is the best insult I have ever heard and I will in fact be using it from here on out.
Shout to all the wonderful moderators on The Weekly Planet online spaces, like the Facebook group, who work really hard to keep things extremely fun and non-toxic. It’s so hard to maintain that because all it takes is one person to get nasty against someone else or a group of people to start poisoning the well.
Absolutely in love with all the clips playing in this. Outstanding work as always
using the teen titans go episode that explored that exact focus group testing idea was very good
Didn’t even watch the video yet but the answer is yes. Toxic fans have made something that should be fun into such an annoying space. I’m at the point where I enjoy what I enjoy without interacting with the fanbase.
SAME. I've gotten so tired of this reactionary hysteria going on in internet circles that I've just stopped interacting with them all together. I didn't absolutely hate the marvels and if I openly admit that in some of these places I get hit with 50 trillion three letter acronyms and buzzwords and then get told I'm bringing the downfall of western civilization or something.
Right it’s the fans that make 200 million plus budgeted movies bad. There’s a difference between toxic and blatantly just making a shit product. So now that joker 2 is bombing everywhere, is it because of a toxic fanbase or is it because they marketed a musical to comic book fans? So who is really toxic here? Nothing is black and white like that. And to admit ‘I haven’t even seen the video but the answer is yes’ you have no idea what you are saying
@@Thingshavechanged1234 no its toxic fans that make discussing even mediocre movies insufferable and if you don't think fandoms to these things are a problem then you are probably the insufferable fan this video is referring to. Tbh based off your comment, you do sound exactly like the people who make these fandoms so terrible to interact with
@@chriscross4007 nice assumption buddy. Having an opinion doesn’t make a person toxic and where’s the interruption to the discussion? You are eating your own words genius. You admit In your own comment about how ‘mediocre movies can’t be discussed’ how??? Lool are people preventing you from talking or typing or something lmfao. You are the one making a discussion impossible cause you need everyone to agree with how you see things. Have a good day
@@Thingshavechanged1234 your opinion is fine. I partially agree with it. It's how you express that opinion and the way fans voice that dissatisfaction is the problem.
Going to answer the title by saying yes absolutely
Some geeks just can't accept that they aren't the target demographic for everything geeky. If everything doesn't treat them as the only demographic then it's time to rage.
Unfortunately toxic fans are also paying customers most of the time.
It’s bc there are extremely toxic individuals who hijack fandoms and condition their followers to engage in groupthink. Like that “critical drinker” guy.
It’s exhausting because it’s starts with a thing not being good but then someone like critical drinker will keep pushing this narrative that a thing sucks because of woke as opposed to a variety of factors so you can’t “go to bat,” as James said, for subpar stuff but if feels like letting a virus spread if you just let these toxic dudes spread their hate.
This ^^ definition of toxicity
I dislike how much he has cheapened critical evaluation when it comes to media.
Nowadays, a movie just can’t be bad because of the writing, directing, acting, cinematography, etc, it’s bad because “it’s political.”
I’ve ignored him entirely after he said Wakanda Forever was as bad as Wonder Woman 1984
The Snyder fans alone are what make fan bases annoying. You can’t even talk about dc movies without them tell you how much they don’t care.
They’re already hammering Gunn
I wish zack had just gone into construction or plumbing..
I’m just at a point where whenever someone mentions “the fans” I immediately picture who they mean and I nope out. It sucks to be a fan of most things because some moron who hates black people will scream at the top of their lungs that they hate whatever show or movie it is and that they’re speaking on your behalf. Like mate…sit down. I hope studios realize that catering to them is a fruitless endeavor because “the fans” don’t reflect the box office, and maybe the better course of action is just keep taking big swings and trying creative new things so you can create new fans.
Heres the thing… how do we define toxic fandoms? Because if you make something that people don’t like, they’re going to complain, but valid criticism and death threats are two different things entirely and its rarely the same people doing both
You could just, I don’t know, not complain, and move on with your life, it’s really not that hard. Nobody likes a whiner.
@@Russelshackleford not an intellectual argument in the slightest
I think the studios are using the anti-woke toxic fans as an excuse for their own failures. It helps them ignore real criticisms. My GF and I don't care about the color or gender of the characters. But we stopped watching the Star Wars and Marvel shows because they're just bad. Everyone talks about how good Andor was, but really the pacing is terrible. You could skip the first 5 episodes of that or any of these show and you wouldn't miss anything. Then they try to wrap everything up in an episode or two.
Also, the only way these shows get the plot to move along is that everyone makes the dumbest decisions every single time. It's frustrating how bad the writing is.
But instead they say, "oh, it's the toxic fandom". BS. It is the poor quality of the product. If it was good, it wouldn't matter what basement dwelling incels felt about it.
I’ve always said this. I hate fandoms. Idc what it is they become very demanding and tbh for better or worse I rather have an artist make the product they want not what pleases everyone.
"Is my product utter shit? No, it is the fans who are wrong."
Sometimes it's both
Opinions vary man
Its both man
Spoken like a true incel
This is soooo true especially the part about gaming. I love gaming but the community is always so exhausting to engage with. People will say concord failed bc it was woke bc it has pronouns but no story at all but bend over backwards to say bg3 actually wasn't woke even though it's the gayest game ever
Concord failed because it was the blandest shit possible
@@li-limandragon9287 oh I know, I've played it and I agree. But it's impossible to have a real discussion on the reasons it didn't do well since its drowned out by people claiming it's bc pronouns or bc the tank woman was brown and not hot enough or blame some dei nonsense as if that would have been good if it had all white muscular men instead
@@chriscross4007I so agree with this sentiment. I don’t like the Acolyte, it was slow, wasted potential and characters weren’t that compelling. But every “criticism” I see online is just talking about how woke culture, lesbian witches or Black Jedi are ruining Star Wars. Wether you like or dislike a product, you need to have a REAL reason for it
The worst part about all of this is that studios are just making (or going to make) all the wrong conclusions.
The "lets just make shite using AI coz its cheap" doesn't solve nobody caring about what you make because they're tired of media oversaturation.
The theory that "black communities will now watch and accept our franchise because we cast someone who looks like them" doesn't hold any water IF you make the project bland and proceed to throw them under the bus when things fail.
No wonder people leave these franchises; noisy racism (etc) from trolls online AND getting the blame from your corporate bosses who want to collect another insane bonus while implying that your race (or whatever element) caused the project to fail; which it almost certainly DIDN'T!
These are the same executives (in some cases LITERALLY) who wanted to make a Hellboy movie but do the Hulk instead.
As you've always said "best thing ever or the worst thing ever?" - we all know there is no in between 😂 😭
You nailed modern day AI movies to a T! Crying laughing face, crying laughing face, crying laughing face
Im happy enough for any chance for some nerd-bashing, but studios could easily avoid all this by putting more money into original content in the first place.
I think you guys eventually found the middle ground here; people are not willing to settle for mediocre content anymore. Toxic fandoms go both ways; there are people who are unwilling to admit criticism and those unwilling to admit highlights. The majority of fans are somewhere in the middle but the critics are consistently labeled as toxic (some absolutely fucking are) while those that blindly adore the products are called true fans (you can absolutely like something, but nothing is perfect) we’re stuck in an environment where the two poles are the loudest and the average voice is drowned out
The best comment out here regarding the matter
@@Thingshavechanged1234 thanks man! Just hate to feel like discourse can’t take place anymore, takes the fun out of being a fan!
As long as the discourse isn’t “dei/woke bad”, which some people still seem to think isn’t brain rot
@@sheildingepicness I think the biggest issue with that is that when shows aren’t good, “DEI” becomes both a backbone for defense/criticism. It’s why the Acolyte was such a shit show to discuss online. By the end of it you couldnt even discuss the plot of the show without a supporter saying you didn’t like it because it’s a diverse cast that threatens the white man or a hater saying you liked it because it’s woke and you don’t care about Star Wars. It really is exhausting because we all just want good stories and getting bogged down in these irrelevant debates is just dividing us further.
@@sheildingepicness to be clear, totally support the idea Star Wars is for everyone, but personally I kind of always felt that it was; Lucasfilm’s insistence on pushing that point out more and more makes it feel like it hasn’t always been and I think that just ignites both sides. Everyone is welcome in this community and I think us levelheaded Weekly Planet fans represent that mindset, but the extremes think Lucasfilm is attacking their side everytime something like this comes up!
Peridot and Steven Universe footage, excellent choice 👌🏼👌🏼
Yes - they just make it impossible to enjoy anything
1. People misuse the word "ruining," or any form of that word. Ruined? I mean, how so? They're making tons of money. It's not stopping them from making money hand over fist. 2. If toxic fandom got us The Snyder Cut, then that was a win for everyone not just the toxic fans. Warner Brothers f#&@ed Snyder over. They kind of deserved what happened. 3. Toxic Fandoms are like Cancel Culture, or for that matter religious outcry, it's only real if you believe in it/accept it and let it influence you. Like I said previously, they are still making money hand over fist. Comic book films print money. Madame Web made over a hundred million dollars. 4. Don't stress over the alt right crypto fans. They're no more important than the studios cashing in on wokeness and making things like She Hulk. Both come and go and make no impact at all. If it's good. It's good. Look at Mad Max Fury Road. The Alt Right crypto fans tried to hate it, but it was so good they just couldn't and pretended it wasn't a feminist film when it clearly was. Then you have things like She Hulk. It came and went and no one barely even remembers it anymore. All of these voices are just farts in the wind right wing/fake woke, whatever. The cream will always rise to the top.
Yes
Don't confuse what people want, and what studios are willing to put money towards. The people don't want all these remakes/reboots/revamps. The studios just make them and there's nothing else to go see.
Sounds like someone thinks the last Jedi should have been the new start of Star Wars
Studios have all the power to make their own new IPs without having to please a fanbase they have no control over but they choose not to and instead slap on the name Joker to two bad films in the hopes people would go and see that garbage.
Can't just have a Taxi Driver but worse film with some mental healthcare in america overtones, they have to involve a character with decades of history and backstory, why? because MONEY.
Prometheus could have just been a shitty vanity project from Ridley Scott about the origins of mankind, but he had to involve the Alien franchise in it, so not only is it a bad film, it's now a bad Alien franchise film that cost us Blomkamp Alien 5.
If you use an established IP theres some expectation that you should be trying to please the fanbase that helped establish it in the first place. Movies / Shows / Games doesn't matter, if you don't then you get justified backlash and sometimes unjustified extreme backlash.
I remember being introudced to James channel before Star Wars the force awakens was out. I think things feeling underground and not in the complete mainstream really harms the excitement for these products
6:50 - Cyberpunk 2077 is a great example of this. It has tons of “woke” stuff in it, but it’s a great game with well written stories so the “woke” stuff doesn’t even stand out.
I actively don't engage in these types of circles. Especially with stuff I really like. For example My Hero Academia, one of my favorite shows, but the fandom is so toxic on every platform, I just keep my head down and watch anime and read the manga.
That being said, the problem I have with this segment is that there is a lot of very valid criticism out there for all of these works of art that should be heard. The ones I've given up on on things like anything from Star Wars, Marvel, or DC strictly because they are no longer producing art, they've decided all they want to sell is product.
See I've always heard the Fandom is toxic but then alot of people who say just complain is about all the gay shipping that the Fandom does so I feel a bit skeptical towards it
@@basedchimera5859sounds by definition toxic, why hate on what other fans take away from the medium
@@basedchimera5859 that's not the part of the fandom that bothers me. I am making Deku fan art that's gender bent myself. I don't really care how people are the characters. That's not toxic. While watching the current episodes I am seeing nothing but hate towards the show and the writers/animators. The show has taken a hit in the animation department but it's because of the crunch and lack of funding the artists are given, and the story is straight from the manga which is still being happily received. I'm no where near as far in the manga as the show, but from what I can tell they have adapted it very well. They haven't done anything that feels out of character or gimmicky.
@@PinkgloRadio that's fair enough then
On what they said about the last Jedi, the rise of skywalker actually made LESS than TLJ
Well better writing and appreciation of the fan base would fix most of the issues. But that’s asking too much.
"fans" is inaccurate. Most of these people were never fans of the original property and were never gonna be consumers of the new thing. What they are consumers of is outrage from their favourite culture warriors
I'm not sure how mentally stunted a person would have to be to actually compare being "a fan" purely with being a consumer lol. That's so sad it's actually a little funny.
@@Elfenlied8675309they would need a wigi pfp for one
@@Elfenlied8675309 you mean the exact thing we see from stunted dweebs for over a decade now?
YES.
Obviously I can only speculate, but this seems to be a problem largely due to or at least associated with the generation growing up with the internet now being old enough to have productive creative roles. Source: scroll through a subreddit for any show or videogame you have a complaint about or watch a TH-cam video about it and find someone with the same complaint, click on the comments, and sure enough, within the top three comments will be something along the lines of, "this is what's wrong with Hollywood, the so called 'creative professionals' are completely out of touch with their audience and ignore their fan base."
Now let's zoom out a little and take a look at the creative professionals who likely grew up in love with the art of film/television and were the ones doing deep dives on everything they watched, the amount of time they must have came across comments like these, I feel it's ingrained in them that recognizing and addressing the loud opinions is what a talented creative professional should strive to do
Studios do get a certain amount of marketing mileage from enraging fans. Difficult to say how intentional that is, but if you have a mediocre film/series/whatever and your trailers have little chance of getting anywhere on genuine excitement, put in something that pisses off the hardcore fans and they will thumbs-down you into circulation.
Currently watching the new season of true detective and enjoying in, but part of me was like “I bet there is a critical drinker video talking about it being bad /woke” low and beyond there was one . I’m not saying the show is perfect but to some audiences when you view everything as woke or big Hollywood pushing an agenda the criticism often falls outside of what the project actually is /it’s own merits.
Bad fans do suck but the fandom isn't why movies are failing. When the only films are reboots or lazy cash grabs, people get annoyed. If something is really good, the haters will get drowned out.
But why does the stuff suck so much
Because you suck, it’s an internal problem.
It is absolutely unequivocally not toxic to call shit content shit content. Rogue One stared a woman and is loved because it's a good movie. Fans cheered when four women gunned down legions of Stormtroopers in the Mando season 1 finale. When content it's good we'll praise it, but more often than not it's utter shit.
This video absolutely went over your head of you think the point being made here is that studios are blaming fans who voice their dissatisfaction with a product for the product being bad. You should probably just go watch critical drinker if you want someone to say that you should be angry at everything for being woke and everything sucks and fandoms aren't a problem
@chriscross4007 my comment has totally went over your head. As I said, the same "sexist" StarWars fans loved Rogue One. Why? Because they aren't sexist, they just don't like shit content.
@@cameronbrown940 yeah, like the video said. People will bend over backwards to say something isn't woke if its good. But if it's just okay then people will rage and say it sucks for whatever ridiculous identity politics reason like the star wars game is bad bc it stars a woman who isn't hot enough
@chriscross4007 you're part of the problem then. The acolyte didn't suck because it had a black woman as the lead, it sucked because it was shit. People like you then use false accusations of racism, sexism and every other type of ism to defend it and honestly, it's pathetic
@GenXForever I never said anything about woke, I also never said I watch critical drinker (I don't for the record). You're putting words in my mouth. I said the fans are largely not toxic, you can't tell me the same fans who idolise Leia, Padme, Ahsoka, Cara Dune, Jyn Erso, Fennec Shan, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Hera, Sabine Wren are bigots because they did t like Rey. It's pathetic and infantile to say ones dislike for a handful of female characters invalidates their love for the long list of other and makes them a sexist.
Sometimes something is just shit regardless of the demographic of its actors. And the sequel trilogy is proof of that.
Sadly, this is such a well worn topic that the legitimate concerns just fall of deaf ears because everyone on every side is tired of it. I wish studio mergers and the influx of investment capital into the film industry were a ‘sexier’ topic for journalists and social media.
There’s less competition, but more pressure to make a huge hit every time. Yet no additional revenue streams from physical media.
‘One Company buys another Company’
Normal Person
I think people would be less tired if "legitimate concerns" had they not been used as a smokescreen to attack women and minorities
Joker 2 is what happens when people who buy into ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’ bs realise that’s exactly that, bs.
Arthur said in both films that people weren’t listening and he was right
Toxic fandoms is a convenient cop out for studios buy rights to fan favourite movies, because it's 'easier' for them to make money, and a convenient cop out for writers who want to make a fan favourite movie 'their own'.
Mason and Nick hit the nail on the head. If these studios bring fans in, that’s how you get movies like Last Jedi (and also Rise of Skywalker).
We need show runners who don’t just “understand” the IP. But creatives who have an intuitive understanding & respect for the worlds they’re adapting.
Also… enough of these big epic shows with 18 month gaps. It’s exhausting!
I try my best to just avoid all the bullshit, but I can’t even scroll through TH-cam without being flooded with it. It’s so goddamn annoying. If you don’t like something, move on with your life, stop making 10 videos telling everyone why you hate it.
Don’t Blame The Fan
Blame The Corporations p
Yes, the people that enjoy a show or film simply watch it then carry on with the lives. The people that have decided they don't like something shout about it, make angry TH-cam videos about it and start campaigns to cancel it. Myself and my son both enjoyed the Acolyte, it wasn't the best thing ever made, but we liked it. But then you have people yelling and shouting that it much be cancelled because of black force lesbians! If you don't like it, don't watch about it, you don't have to try and actively destroy something. It's ok to not like things, but don't be a dick about the things you don't like.
I mean, people didn't watch it. Along with an overblown budget, hence why it was cancelled
@@connorwood9211people didn’t watch it because there was no one asking for that property, not because of “woke” lmao
Maybe you’re programming your son to have bad taste in culture. lol
I hate when articles like this come out and never mention the equally toxic portion of the fanbase that blindly love everything. Blind love and blind hate are equally as unhealthy and toxic.
An example: before The Acolyte came out the Star Wars instagram page posted a picture of Carrie-Anne Moss' character holding her lightsaber and I made a comment saying "oh that lightsaber doesn't look good" and I of course got a bunch of replys calling me an incel, bigot, racist, sexist, etc.
All I did was criticize the lightsaber effects which have been terrible since the sequels, but since the lead of the show just happened to be a woman of color I get a bunch of nasty replies.
Its people like that, that cause studios to get lazy and complacent which leads to us getting slop instead of good products.
Let’s see what these clowns say
Great podcast episode... Can you make it five times a year?
The Boys makes fun of everything. Consistently roasts “woke” Disney and the left as well as the right. It’s just satire.
Problem with The Boys is that heaps of idiots and even the marketing of the show celebrate Homelander and completely miss the point that he’s supposed to be a pathetic asswipe.
So many people will take things at face value.
@@li-limandragon9287 might be a little bit because Starr plays him so well. But I agree, he straight up sucks in the comics a lot worse than in the show.
The boys is definitely left leaning lol, hard not to be when you have a brain/staff who aren’t all men
#TheWokelyPlanet
Found the village idiot
I think the reason that streaming numbers are going down is because these shows are bad and people dont want to watch them. Simple really.
How can you define a fan who doesn’t like the thing versus toxicity? I like to think I’m the former but I’m hearing I’m the latter 🤷♂️
When you see a piece of media you don’t like, what do you do? Do you just say to yourself, “well, that sucked” and move on with your day, or do you go online and shit on it for the next week? Answer that and you’ll have answered your question. Not liking something is fine, but dear god, people need to realize that no one gives a fuck about your opinion.
Fans are the reason the IP is popular in the first place. Fans are the reason the studio is making the project in the first place.
For some reason, studios feel the need to piss off the fans in search of a different audience. Fans have a right to criticize the products.
I’m sick of the toxic positivity. If these companies want to make money, they have to appeal to fans and they have to engage with the criticism.
Yes let’s appeal to the insecure minority (yourself) and not the world as a whole 😂 get a grip bro, sorry your enjoyment was ruined by diversity, other people existing, etc
@@sheildingepicness Uhh, it's the companies that are panicking. If I was a minority, they could easily ignore me, but people like me are more the majority than you would like to admit.
BTW, I _am_ a minority. I was born in a rural village in india and am currently living in the US. Diversity is fine, poor writing is not and that's where my issues lie.
The only insecure person here is the one who relies on ad hominem attacks. Stop defending the billion dollar corpos lil bro, they don't care about you, only your wallet.
The entitlement is just nauseating. Get help
Constant fan complaints are what you sign up for when your content is all based on existing IP. Those same fans are the reason any new film was made to begin with... the studios expect them to show up for a new entry in their beloved series. This is the natural trade-off for all this uninspired franchise-bait these studios are focused on.
Real fans of the ip are not the issue, it’s people who claim the show isn’t exactly how they want it for their specific identity politics game, like critical drinker
The simple answer is no. The complex answer is that studios keep fucking up and people voice their opinions on it.
I disagree. It's completely reasonable to not like something and to critique it, but the people voicing these strong opinions are not creating meaningful discussions. They're hate mongering. They're going into these shows and movies with the intent of hating them simply because they don't like some small detail about it. They're creating online personalities entirely based around hating something. That's not healthy. By no means am I saying everyone that dislikes something is like this. I'm talking about the vocal crowd that creates an echo chamber on Twitter and goes around review bombing shit because they weren't personally catered to.
There’s a glut of “just fine” to “bad” stuff being thrown out constantly and the worst people can thrive in that environment by blaming the woke boogeyman for studios not giving artists and performers the time and money they need to make truly great stuff
@@majorleaguegains5597 personally, I think there are way more in depth discussions happening than most people want to admit, regardless if the project is loved or hated. Not only that, but If we're talking about hate mongering we should probably bring up over gloating as well. Obviously there will be people that hate something based purely on it's existence while some people will love something based purely on it's existence, little to no thought required on either side. I disregard these "opinions" as most other people should.
Criticism is not toxic lmao, being toxic is criticizing a product or other peoples enjoyment for some tertiary, hateful reason that doesn’t actually matter to the product/show itself (like most of the acolyte backlash that was directed at the cast/characters and not the poor plot)
@Lovicide wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately it's the extreme reactions on both sides that are benefited by the social media algorithms so that's what is seen most.
Hey if people only like your product when you make less of it, then I think you already don't have a good product. If you're complaining that Marvel is losing too much stuff, chances are you're not a Marvel fan, and you would complain about whatever thing you were watching in the first place
《The Force is Female》
"The Farce Awakens" Box Office was Over $2 Billion
《Substandard Subversion》
"The Lost Jedi" Thanos-Snapped Almost Half of the General Audience Far, Far Away
《The Fans are Toxic》
"The Ruse of Skywalker" Box Office was just Over $1 Billion
...so, You're Welcome to like TLJ "Very Much", but...
...i would Thank You to also point out that it "Very Much" Crippled the Franchise...
...the fact that Dissney then attempted to fashion an Intractable Crutch for the Franchise to hobble along on is Irrelevant...
...imo, they didn't understand how to "Fix" the Sequel Trilogy because they didn't understand where they Went Wrong because they didn't understand the Star Wars Franchise AND/OR Fandom in the first place!!!
👽 🖖 🤖
Isn't it just the Internet in general.. people give opinions, others disagree, maybe a bit of back and forth, can be entertaining to read at times.. Sometimes not.... I don't believe in toxic fandom or culture wars it's just people expressing there opinions... Be it channels or just comments and then there is discourse, all of this is meant as entertainment... And if studios are supposedly worried about fan backlash it's cause they see there not making money, no one is watching joker 2 but plenty are watching videos on joker 2... Its the way entertainment is going... If it was good people would say it's go watch it no spoilers but when it's bad... Then fair game... Tim Dillon whose in it said its the worst movie ever so... Whatever it's just a movie
No. The studios and their diehard fans who will happily consume any shit that's produced immediately blame the people who criticize the studios for making shit and being totally content with it being shit. Just because someone is critical of something you might like, it doesn't make them racists or bigots. Yet these actors come out and immediately call them racists and bigots, so how would you expect the critics to respond to that? The word "toxic" gets thrown around at every single thing that some people might not agree with to the point that it has lost all meaning. Same with "iconic."
If you are paying attention, there was definitely racist/sexist backlash to both the acolyte and Star Wars outlaws… the people who deny it are the same people who poorly justify it by being “true fans” like yourself
@@sheildingepicness Can you show me the racist backlash for either? All I saw was people calling out terrible writing and acting in the acolyte. As for outlaws, you can watch 30 minutes of gameplay and tell how underwhelming that game is. A game or show being criticized isn't racist until people start yelling out "You didn't like what I like, which happened to have a woman of color as the lead, so you're a racist and a bigot!" Also, I never claimed to be anything so by you saying that almost plays into my point. The projection is insane.
@@ZWillis12 house of dragon poc actors have shown racist dms they’ve been getting along with blk actors like Moses Ingram in the obi wan show anything that isn’t straight white or male is woke to you people try to deny all you want but hey it’s the truth
It's easy for hollywood to blame fandoms for their failures, when really their movies and shows are failing because they're just not that good.
Marvel fanboys
The best approach is to pull an Alan Moore. Hate everything, everyone knows you hate it, no surprises. And just move on.
I love everything
Yes
Yes