As a person from a Muslim background who has both first and second hand trauma, thank you for what you will do. It really means a lot. Thank you so much.
Nice to hear this being tackled at all. My own experience being - got involved with a "radical, fundamentalist commune based church" in my 20's. Many years later, at age 56 I was diagnosed with ADHD, still waiting for an Autism assessment. To be fair no one in the UK had the first clue what ADHD was 30-40 years ago (awareness is only really picking up since COVID). So - the problems I had as a result of the ADHD were interpreted as character failure, pride, sin and disobedience. As you might imagine, this has left me with a deep distaste of churches and believers. Didn't get past the wheel of experiences you showed because even certain key phrases, "altar calls", separating people from friends and families, etc, pull the triggers and it's unbearable. But it needs tackling as a subject. The worst offenders, alas, seem to be the Abramic, monotheistic faiths (though it should be noted that these problems don't arise from the number of god/s cited by these faiths, but from the dismal doctrines they espouse. "The human heart is desperately wicked, above all things." "All is vanity and a chasing after the wind." "Have no thought for tomorrow." The earth is condemned, man is condemned, no hope, no future, no point in doing anything because God, whose kingdom is not of this world, hates everything that man does. (I know there are nicer bits, but a cherry on a pie made of misery and sorrow doesn't make up for the misery and sorrow.)
@Di NY I know God exists. Though I suspect we might disagree about some of the finer details. And I understand that they were deceived. Well meaning, but deceived, as many are. It was more reflective of a certain type of middle class English person than anything else. Sort of friendly but with a nastiness underneath the surface that slips out a bit too easily. And their god was just like them. And I understand that too, now. But thanks for taking the time to comment.
I got diagnosed with ocd, autism, and panic disorder as a child, but my parents went really far out of their way to find miracle workers who would "heal me," and so there was this understanding in me that if I was going to get better I had to will myself better
I wad Diagnosed OCD for obsessive thinking as a kid specifically ro do with hell and damnation. Im in the psych ward now for issues relating to religious trauma.
Wow, what a great summary! I have read the book by Dr Marlene Winell "Leaving the Fold", also "The God Virus" by Darrel Ray, both very interesting. Lastly, consider the words of Seneca: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
I can absolutely support your viewpoint that when dealing with rts, therapy needs also to focus on the physiological reactions that also occur, not only focus on the cognition. I am affected bc my father got into a religious group when I was a child. My therapist recognized late, but not too late, so I came a little further in my recovery. Edit: Thank you so much for this video and your work at all! It's such an important issue!
thank you so much for this very thoughful, respectful gender-collaborating presentation! the trigger that I've been dealing with lately (though it has been long-standing), has come from following 'guided meditations' that are designed to take participants to 'expanded states of consciousness' from which we can connect with god/ higher self/ angelic beings/ guides, etc. In watching this video I realized that I immediately go into a 'freeze collapse' state when such meditation exercises begin, as I am filled with panic and dread that I won't be able to 'get it', that I will experience 'faillure' and this will confirm the deep seated belief that 'there is something wrong with me'. Intellectually, I can link my heightened axiety response to what is designed to be 'relaxation inducing' exercises - calm voice, soft music, words of 'guidance', with the panic I felt as a child in church, about not being able to 'feel Jesus in my heart'/ 'receive the holy spirit'/ 'have the conviction of being saved'. I also have a strong panic response to any breath-work (pranayama) in the yoga tradition, especially the practices that involve rapid breathing, 'locking the diaphragm', clenching the anal sphincter, etc., as well as in group experiential healing exercises. I find I go into 'shut down' (freeze). My sense of alone-ness in this response is heightened by seeing others around me going into deep experiences of release. Just like at church, I can sense that what is happening around me, in other people, is REAL, but its not MY experience, which confirms my belief that I am flawed, irreperably, and that I'll never be able to 'get it'. I have felt tremendous sense of shame about what I have perceived to be my 'spiritual limitations' and have tried to cover this secret so that I 'appear' spiritual, when inside I have felt like a fraud. I still have a HUGE difficulty with prayer, and feel SO badly about myself that I can't/ don't pray more for others. Prayer brings up huge anxiety and shame for me, and so I have avoided it. But right now so many around me are in crisis, and I feel so badly about myself that I am not praying for them. But how can I pray from a place of feeling shame, which is essentially judging myself, scaring myself, and feeling disconnected from msyelf. This all leads to a vicious cycle of avoiding prayer, feeling badly about not praying, trying to pray, feeling like an imposter, and then avoiding prayer again (repeat cycle). In the safe space that you have created here, I dare to ask, 'can anyone else relate?' with much gratitude to all holding safe space for one another.....
It never occurred to me that my experience with worship services etc might have something to do with why I feel so unsafe during guided meditations or why I start having a panic attack during breathing exercises but now that you've pointed that out I think you are onto something. I think for me its equal parts due to the expectations and performative aspects and the fear/shame and vulnerability that being "guided" creates. I can sit and listen to a mantra meditation or just a music meditation and find that calm place just fine. But the second I'm being "guided" by some outside force I become hypervigilant and hypercritical.
@@carmena.3082 wow, I'm so glad that I 'took the risk' to share what I did, as it was my secret hope that in doing so I might hear from others who could relate, and thus help me feel less alone in my experiences and secret shame/pain. I have felt so badly about myself for having so much difficulty with guided meditations, etc., and have used my struggles to judge myself as being incapable. the more I am able to realize that its fear, and not ineptitude, that keeps me from experiencing what others seem to be able to access so much easier, the more I can reign in my anxiety, and be present to whatever is (or, more often, what is not: images, sensations, 'ah-ha' breakthroughs' etc.). that said, I am noticing how I have been avoiding doing the latest guided meditation from a patreon channel I subscribe to, just because I'm scared I will get triggered again and I want to avoid this. and yes, about vulnerability, in counselling as soon as my therapist would 'guide' me in a visualization, it would be like pumping the brakes and the gas at the same time, TRYING to have an 'experience', yet at the same time 'pulling up and out' as my ego wanted to feel in control, and to not 'give my power away' by being 'led' by someone else. I took a break from counselling, in part because I felt like I hit a wall with the techniques she was trying to use with me (identifying feelings in my body -ugh, guided visualizations of going under the golden waterfall -ugh again, and progressive relaxation techniques, that got me more 'wired' than 'tired' (just like savasana). its so good to be able to reflect on this with you; thank you so much for writing; it feels good to be able to share this with someone who can relate!
Helping people understand that unpacking trauma dynamics does not equate putting down genuine spiritual or religious belief is also essential when working with people who still really identify with a system of spiritual or religious thought. Choice is key. Personal empowerment is key.
I’ve learnt I have nothing to be shamed of today! My circle is small my believes are pure. My thoughts aren’t always pure. I help in a way I can. Not in a way that makes me feel guilty. Take Care.
Excellent and well spoken introduction to religious trauma and trauma in general. I've shared this for other folks to find and look forward to getting some more in depth training!
As a child watching my mother get demons exorcised from her. Being forced to kneel and beg god for forgiveness for being too messy as a child, being told i am embarrassing oneself for laughing or dressing a certain way are all examples
I believe I follow your Facebook page too. This has helped me so much when I decided to leave Jehovah's witnesses. I'm still a work in progress but this is helpful.
I came here to watch this after getting emailed by your organisation - so I just want to check in with you whether you’re pretty much just addressing christian religion? I’m asking because all the dialogue so far seems to have assumed Christianity, and I’m a survivor of a Buddhist cult so I don’t know whether there’s anything for me here?
All religions are out to make disciples/victims/slaves for their places of worship/religion "they will make merchandise out of you" They're not out to set captives of religions free, as Christ came to do. Christ came proclaiming the Kingdom of Heaven and he came to make Disciples for the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ never came to proclaim Christianity nor any other defiled crime plagued religion. Christ never told anyone to build more places of worship and then covet souls into those places. They totally twisted the freeing Gospel of God through Christ, into a perverted enslaving gospel. When Christ went into places of worship, it was to call out his lost sheep. This is why the religious leaders of then and now hate the Real Christ. Christ came to set the sheep free from the enslaving doctrines of self exalted preachers/devils masquerading as light. This is why the people had to go out and seek Christ in the wilderness. Once the religious leaders figured out that Christ was turning their places of worship, their religious titles, and their religious traditions into nothing, they wanted him murdered by the hands of the Romans.
Yeah this channel has very low views. It's not an easy video to just come across. Viewers either had to seek far and wide to find it, or they had to lnow about it. Thankfully in the last few years videos on this topic are appearing on youtube more n more.
@@bellezavudd yes I think I searched for this term a couple years back and there wasn’t much on the subject so it’s great there is more on it now. I don’t think it’s surprising the view number is low, the content is incredible however in order to search for religious trauma you first need to know it exists, I know it took me a long time to realise what happened to me was due to religious trauma and that it wasn’t simply my fault.
On the contrary often when i speak about trauma and "spiritual experience", mostly everybody seems compelled to make up his "story" of how religion is "important in its own way", for THEM. Leavin g me with some guessings-as spirituality and religion is something that "each has to make sense of for himself" - which just furthers the hokus pokus aura of shame and censorship. How could i dare to "question".. Oh yes.. To get some fancy guesses.. Not really..
It's so sad the the meaning of God's Church through Christ, has been twisted into man's church through abusive religions. . Now you are the body of Christ and *individually* members of it. 1 Corinthians 12:27 . Christ's Church and man's church are polar opposites. One is the True House of God/Light the other is the house of religious abuse/darkness masquerading as light. We cannot serve two masters, for we will either love the one or hate the other. Unfortunately, religions can't afford to teach you that every True Believer is the One True House of God/Temple of the Holy Spirit and that the Teacher dwells within each True Believer. 1 John 2:27 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true-it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. To teach the freeing Gospel is to have to close down all places of worship and acknowledge that God made everyone in his image/likeness and that God himself dwells in and teaches each Believer. The Freeing Gospel is a threat to every single religion in this world, because it ruins their money train.
I suffer from this daily, thank you for raising awareness.
I’m starting grad school for clinical mental health Counseling in September and this is one of the communities I want to serve
As a person from a Muslim background who has both first and second hand trauma, thank you for what you will do.
It really means a lot. Thank you so much.
Agree!! I am a Muslim mental health practitioner and there is so much work to be done here.
Nice to hear this being tackled at all.
My own experience being - got involved with a "radical, fundamentalist commune based church" in my 20's. Many years later, at age 56 I was diagnosed with ADHD, still waiting for an Autism assessment. To be fair no one in the UK had the first clue what ADHD was 30-40 years ago (awareness is only really picking up since COVID). So - the problems I had as a result of the ADHD were interpreted as character failure, pride, sin and disobedience. As you might imagine, this has left me with a deep distaste of churches and believers.
Didn't get past the wheel of experiences you showed because even certain key phrases, "altar calls", separating people from friends and families, etc, pull the triggers and it's unbearable.
But it needs tackling as a subject. The worst offenders, alas, seem to be the Abramic, monotheistic faiths (though it should be noted that these problems don't arise from the number of god/s cited by these faiths, but from the dismal doctrines they espouse.
"The human heart is desperately wicked, above all things."
"All is vanity and a chasing after the wind."
"Have no thought for tomorrow."
The earth is condemned, man is condemned, no hope, no future, no point in doing anything because God, whose kingdom is not of this world, hates everything that man does.
(I know there are nicer bits, but a cherry on a pie made of misery and sorrow doesn't make up for the misery and sorrow.)
@Di NY I know God exists. Though I suspect we might disagree about some of the finer details. And I understand that they were deceived. Well meaning, but deceived, as many are. It was more reflective of a certain type of middle class English person than anything else. Sort of friendly but with a nastiness underneath the surface that slips out a bit too easily. And their god was just like them. And I understand that too, now.
But thanks for taking the time to comment.
I got diagnosed with ocd, autism, and panic disorder as a child, but my parents went really far out of their way to find miracle workers who would "heal me," and so there was this understanding in me that if I was going to get better I had to will myself better
I wad Diagnosed OCD for obsessive thinking as a kid specifically ro do with hell and damnation. Im in the psych ward now for issues relating to religious trauma.
Thank you for doing this
Wow, what a great summary! I have read the book by Dr Marlene Winell "Leaving the Fold", also "The God Virus" by Darrel Ray, both very interesting. Lastly, consider the words of Seneca: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
I can absolutely support your viewpoint that when dealing with rts, therapy needs also to focus on the physiological reactions that also occur, not only focus on the cognition. I am affected bc my father got into a religious group when I was a child. My therapist recognized late, but not too late, so I came a little further in my recovery.
Edit: Thank you so much for this video and your work at all! It's such an important issue!
Guys I really really really needed this video. I don't want to make a big thing about it and cringe anyone out, but thank you guys
thank you so much for this very thoughful, respectful gender-collaborating presentation! the trigger that I've been dealing with lately (though it has been long-standing), has come from following 'guided meditations' that are designed to take participants to 'expanded states of consciousness' from which we can connect with god/ higher self/ angelic beings/ guides, etc. In watching this video I realized that I immediately go into a 'freeze collapse' state when such meditation exercises begin, as I am filled with panic and dread that I won't be able to 'get it', that I will experience 'faillure' and this will confirm the deep seated belief that 'there is something wrong with me'.
Intellectually, I can link my heightened axiety response to what is designed to be 'relaxation inducing' exercises - calm voice, soft music, words of 'guidance', with the panic I felt as a child in church, about not being able to 'feel Jesus in my heart'/ 'receive the holy spirit'/ 'have the conviction of being saved'.
I also have a strong panic response to any breath-work (pranayama) in the yoga tradition, especially the practices that involve rapid breathing, 'locking the diaphragm', clenching the anal sphincter, etc., as well as in group experiential healing exercises. I find I go into 'shut down' (freeze). My sense of alone-ness in this response is heightened by seeing others around me going into deep experiences of release. Just like at church, I can sense that what is happening around me, in other people, is REAL, but its not MY experience, which confirms my belief that I am flawed, irreperably, and that I'll never be able to 'get it'.
I have felt tremendous sense of shame about what I have perceived to be my 'spiritual limitations' and have tried to cover this secret so that I 'appear' spiritual, when inside I have felt like a fraud. I still have a HUGE difficulty with prayer, and feel SO badly about myself that I can't/ don't pray more for others. Prayer brings up huge anxiety and shame for me, and so I have avoided it.
But right now so many around me are in crisis, and I feel so badly about myself that I am not praying for them. But how can I pray from a place of feeling shame, which is essentially judging myself, scaring myself, and feeling disconnected from msyelf. This all leads to a vicious cycle of avoiding prayer, feeling badly about not praying, trying to pray, feeling like an imposter, and then avoiding prayer again (repeat cycle).
In the safe space that you have created here, I dare to ask, 'can anyone else relate?'
with much gratitude to all holding safe space for one another.....
I love your response, so authentic and brave. I can totally relate. You’re not alone 💛
It never occurred to me that my experience with worship services etc might have something to do with why I feel so unsafe during guided meditations or why I start having a panic attack during breathing exercises but now that you've pointed that out I think you are onto something. I think for me its equal parts due to the expectations and performative aspects and the fear/shame and vulnerability that being "guided" creates. I can sit and listen to a mantra meditation or just a music meditation and find that calm place just fine. But the second I'm being "guided" by some outside force I become hypervigilant and hypercritical.
@@carmena.3082 wow, I'm so glad that I 'took the risk' to share what I did, as it was my secret hope that in doing so I might hear from others who could relate, and thus help me feel less alone in my experiences and secret shame/pain. I have felt so badly about myself for having so much difficulty with guided meditations, etc., and have used my struggles to judge myself as being incapable. the more I am able to realize that its fear, and not ineptitude, that keeps me from experiencing what others seem to be able to access so much easier, the more I can reign in my anxiety, and be present to whatever is (or, more often, what is not: images, sensations, 'ah-ha' breakthroughs' etc.).
that said, I am noticing how I have been avoiding doing the latest guided meditation from a patreon channel I subscribe to, just because I'm scared I will get triggered again and I want to avoid this. and yes, about vulnerability, in counselling as soon as my therapist would 'guide' me in a visualization, it would be like pumping the brakes and the gas at the same time, TRYING to have an 'experience', yet at the same time 'pulling up and out' as my ego wanted to feel in control, and to not 'give my power away' by being 'led' by someone else.
I took a break from counselling, in part because I felt like I hit a wall with the techniques she was trying to use with me (identifying feelings in my body -ugh, guided visualizations of going under the golden waterfall -ugh again, and progressive relaxation techniques, that got me more 'wired' than 'tired' (just like savasana).
its so good to be able to reflect on this with you; thank you so much for writing; it feels good to be able to share this with someone who can relate!
@@devidaughter7782 I can relate. I just made a video of myself reading your comment. I'll upload it soon. Thank you so much. 💞💞💞
Here it is. th-cam.com/video/w4tGGwJ9NyE/w-d-xo.html
Helping people understand that unpacking trauma dynamics does not equate putting down genuine spiritual or religious belief is also essential when working with people who still really identify with a system of spiritual or religious thought. Choice is key. Personal empowerment is key.
Helpful distinctions between abuse and trauma. Thankful for your work. I look forward to learning more
I’ve learnt I have nothing to be shamed of today! My circle is small my believes are pure. My thoughts aren’t always pure. I help in a way I can.
Not in a way that makes me feel guilty. Take Care.
Thank you so very much for this. I dont have words, you gave them to me
Great conversation. Thank you, Laura and Brian!
This was extremely helpful and I’m grateful you shared it!
Thank you so, so much.
Excellent and well spoken introduction to religious trauma and trauma in general. I've shared this for other folks to find and look forward to getting some more in depth training!
This is power content thank you all for sharing your knowledge and heart for healing.
I loved this .
This is wonderful. I subscribed on the website and am looking forward to more!
As a child watching my mother get demons exorcised from her. Being forced to kneel and beg god for forgiveness for being too messy as a child, being told i am embarrassing oneself for laughing or dressing a certain way are all examples
Yeah.. Believing that LEAVING is what makes the whole differene is somewhat like believing, STAYING makes the whole difference.
Really helpful session. Thank you !
This was very very informative!
I believe I follow your Facebook page too. This has helped me so much when I decided to leave Jehovah's witnesses. I'm still a work in progress but this is helpful.
Thank you for sharing!
Really helpful.
I came here to watch this after getting emailed by your organisation - so I just want to check in with you whether you’re pretty much just addressing christian religion? I’m asking because all the dialogue so far seems to have assumed Christianity, and I’m a survivor of a Buddhist cult so I don’t know whether there’s anything for me here?
thank u
All religions are out to make disciples/victims/slaves for their places of worship/religion "they will make merchandise out of you"
They're not out to set captives of religions free, as Christ came to do. Christ came proclaiming the Kingdom of Heaven and he came to make Disciples for the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ never came to proclaim Christianity nor any other defiled crime plagued religion. Christ never told anyone to build more places of worship and then covet souls into those places. They totally twisted the freeing Gospel of God through Christ, into a perverted enslaving gospel.
When Christ went into places of worship, it was to call out his lost sheep. This is why the religious leaders of then and now hate the Real Christ. Christ came to set the sheep free from the enslaving doctrines of self exalted preachers/devils masquerading as light. This is why the people had to go out and seek Christ in the wilderness. Once the religious leaders figured out that Christ was turning their places of worship, their religious titles, and their religious traditions into nothing, they wanted him murdered by the hands of the Romans.
Is not it so scary that videos like and similar to this have bare minimum views. Super Sad. I am disappointed in Humanity.
Yeah this channel has very low views. It's not an easy video to just come across. Viewers either had to seek far and wide to find it, or they had to lnow about it. Thankfully in the last few years videos on this topic are appearing on youtube more n more.
@@bellezavudd I had to search for it
@@Sue-sx3io
Glad you were able to find it.
@@bellezavudd yes I think I searched for this term a couple years back and there wasn’t much on the subject so it’s great there is more on it now. I don’t think it’s surprising the view number is low, the content is incredible however in order to search for religious trauma you first need to know it exists, I know it took me a long time to realise what happened to me was due to religious trauma and that it wasn’t simply my fault.
@@jessicafinch5465
Yes,
definitely other forces
at fault in these type of circumstances.
Glad you are finding answers.
On the contrary often when i speak about trauma and "spiritual experience", mostly everybody seems compelled to make up his "story" of how religion is "important in its own way", for THEM. Leavin g me with some guessings-as spirituality and religion is something that "each has to make sense of for himself" - which just furthers the hokus pokus aura of shame and censorship. How could i dare to "question".. Oh yes.. To get some fancy guesses.. Not really..
🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Being in a Jim Jones type CULT. 😢
Exactly like narcissistic abuse.
My pastor says mental health is because of spiritual or sin. I felt shamed.
Ok, understood! But, is that means that we'll stop trusting God?
criticism because sent kids to public school
Don't talk alote so we can understand clear, coz I'm passing trough the Narcicist of my very religion son.
It's so sad the the meaning of God's Church through Christ, has been twisted into man's church through abusive religions.
.
Now you are the body of Christ and
*individually*
members of it. 1 Corinthians 12:27
.
Christ's Church and man's church are polar opposites. One is the True House of God/Light the other is the house of religious abuse/darkness masquerading as light.
We cannot serve two masters, for we will either love the one or hate the other.
Unfortunately, religions can't afford to teach you that every True Believer is the One True House of God/Temple of the Holy Spirit and that the Teacher dwells within each True Believer. 1 John 2:27 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true-it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.
To teach the freeing Gospel is to have to close down all places of worship and acknowledge that God made everyone in his image/likeness and that God himself dwells in and teaches each Believer. The Freeing Gospel is a threat to every single religion in this world, because it ruins their money train.