Veidt using those people to write a message is an adaptation of Tales of the Black Freighter, where the pirate uses the bodies of his crew to build a raft to save himself. Ultimately, this was also Veidt's arc in the original story, using the dead bodies of millions to "save" humanity.
@@WisecrackEDU 17:30 why do you omitted certain historical facts? This is not the first time you white wash crimes against humanity to proof your point... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
@@mirosawirzyk5247 Explaining the concept of interpreting history based on prior events and not giving a full analysis on the events brought forth does not "white wash... crimes against humanity". This video isn't about analyzing those events. That just served as an EXAMPLE to better explain the CONCEPT to viewers of this video and use that concept in their analysis of Watchmen. The topic of the video titled "The Philosophy of Watchmen (HBO)". Not "Analysis of Generalplan OST"
_"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking... The solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."_ *--- Albert Einstein 🕙 (Watchmen)*
It was very curios that his wife suffered the same treatment. In the early episodes she appears as a darling kind sweetheart of a woman, but in the final episodes her mask slips and we see her true ugly bigoted face. In the last episode even her voice changes to a deeper tone. That was a very nice touch which i just realized after reading your comment. Man i have to watch it again!
Breaking Bad's Ozymandias and BoJack Horseman's The View From Halfway Down are the most critically- acclaimed episodes of TV but I understand the sentiment, that was a great episode.
Jeremy is an absolute BALLER. We should relish every role we get to see him in. He was especially great here because he fits not only the look of Adrian from the comic book, but also his style and personality. What better man to play a megalomaniacal, self-righteous "raging narcissist" as he puts it. The man commends a spectacular presence on screen and one cannot help but just sit and listen to him.
I did not know that the Tulsa race massacre happened. I’m black and I asked my dad (who watched the show) about it and he went a little deeper of what happened with me. I’m a 17 year old history nut and I never heard about this anywhere but this show and this video. One why isn’t the massacre even mentioned in our textbooks. Two thanks Jared for going over the deeper stuff in this video. Keep up the great work guys. :)
Hi, well I'm not in the same place actually. I'm a 22 years old Armenian who live in Turkey. For my part, First, I see that the governement uses this sort of historical information as some kind of political power element. The governement compose it's own character by acknowledging it or teaching/spreading it in controll. Or not even mentioning sometimes. Second, it's the people who passed this incident, usually don't talk about it. I heard about Armenian "mass deplacement/genocide"(whatever is the name..) when I was 14/15 years old. And I even now I don't know what exactly happened objectively speaking... Armenians who live in Turkey usually have more tendency to adapt in this area. In this case it's hard to dig a wound and live with pain. I see that in this place peole have tendency to forget it time to time to continue to live. I'm sure that kind of subject always need time to reveal still, I suppose it's something at least good even starting to talk about it..you know. I have no connetions to black culture frankly. But it made me feel connected to see this kind of moments can also have connecting value in it. I hope you to may have valeuble journey about it man :)
It sounds like knowledge of it was actively suppressed, at least in public. That's why you have to tell your kids about everything you've experienced. You can't trust strangers to tell your story.
If you consider yourself a history nut, then do your own research outside of what you learn in school, especially high school. School is full of bias to paint the US beautiful colors, hiding it's dark secrets to the youths in school. That is why they don't teach these kinds of events in the school system because it shows the US' true colors in a way that the people will begin to oppose its policies.
I love that the episode in an almost religious awe where we found at the end that Dr Manhattan is Angelas husband. The piano portion of david bowies Is there life on mars plays.
Check out the score to VIETNAM By Ken Burns .. Trent and Co. Are just amazing..he has exploded with talent one wouldn't think was from NIN. Unless you're a deep fan, such as I.lol
This whole show was amazing. I've never seen a theme tackled so well. The line "You can't heal under a mask. Wounds need air" addressees historiography too and not just personal trauma. Everything implies that the history of the world is erased and ignored and a false face is put on like a mask. Just like Veidt, and how his living behind the mask of an omitted truth makes him lonely. Our history is not what we would all want it to be. The only way to fight the fear of the unknown is to take off the mask of our narrative of history. Nothing ever ends, so why ignore or change the past. The past is here with us now, so why cover it with a mask?
This is literally what Roshack believed and told Dr Manhattan at the end of the movie, always tell the truth never compromise It's kind of weird how he became the bad guy in the series
Gavin Wentworth it's because it's a horrible cycle of focused disenfranchisement to generate a profit off of people and maintain an air of superiority over said people's. I've come to grips with the fact that nothing is ever Truly solved just fixed for a time and a Price because there's no money in solving problems.
@@madnizz1511 yeah I feel like a lot of people misinterpret him. He was flawed for sure but so is everyone in the show. Hes not so much a bad guy as he is a for lack of a better term a useful idiot as he believed in inherent righteousness that people just didn't have and he ended up creating the very things we wanted to destroy in his death
@@cv4809 but he didn't become the bad guy of the show, though. Rorscharch was in no way involved with the Kavalry, they stole his identity (the mask) and twisted his legacy to justify their own agenda.
This episode has me having flashbacks from all the historical methodologies and theory classes that I took in undergrad and grad school. You guys have outdone yourselves.
I loved this show so much. I’ll tell you what bummed me out. How uncharacteristically quiet EVERYONE WAS!!! That show ended up in the dregs of TH-cam where people didn’t know how to talk about it. All the channels with research teams stayed quiet and I wondered why. It just dealt with so many themes that were important. I’m glad you guys covered it in the end but definitely needed this during the show’s presence.
There was the issue of it being locked behind a paywall. Also, everyone was yelling *"ESJAYDUBBLEYOO PROPAGANDA!!!1!"* for the first few months, so waiting for that to calm down was a good idea.
Did you really wonder why? Its because they either can't or dont want to discuss black topics. Its the same reason most people will say Killmonger was too extreme in black panther but allow the Avengers to do the exact same thing for the exact same reason in Endgame.
@@kingjoeblack5 Maybe it's because they're also a fan of the graphic novel, and this took that and completely twisted it. Novel was political, sure. Not about race. Rorschach has been murdered as a character because the bulk of people will go off of what they saw in this show and associate him with racism. He was probably the least biased character in the novel. And also the most beloved.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video like many others. I’m a black English teacher and so many times I have to implement resources and articles discussing narratives and events from America’s history which are hidden or are not told. Why? Because historical events are often told from those in power and students are warped to see things from a predetermined perspective. The part where Angela has to discover her past is reflective of how many African Americans have a yearning to reconnect with the motherland or how many of us live in trauma and learning about our past identities reinforces the pain. Or the part about being proud of the white supremacist legacy, deeply reflects the ongoing argument about retaining confederate statutes and buildings but it alienates or refusing to acknowledge the oppression these monuments represent. It does raise a compelling question should the U.S preserve these things as parts of history, and if so, why not tell the full story? Like the controversy surrounding the national anthem but anyway Well done wisecrack!
Tory Spring I remember how disgusted I felt when I’d only just found out that the Tulsa race riots were real after watching Watchmen. A lot of our history, good or bad has been suppressed by western education systems. I only found out about the Tuskigi air men when I was a teenager and my parents have spent their whole lives reminding me that Nigeria, the land that I hail from, has a rich history of a political innovation and wonderful natural resources. The point Wisecrack made during the vid was spot on, the current state of the media/propaganda machine does feel like political or psychological warfare on people of ethnic backgrounds.
@Bobby Slater Yeah the US mainstream thinking is probably what gives them their power: "we are the good guys". If somebody else makes the same thing as we do, it is bad! But if we do it, it is good, because we are the good guys!
@@k3daevin seriously, let's talk how the German media omitted the responsibility for WW2... How still people who Dr Mengele experimented on must fight in court for compensation for there lost health? The SHIT what YOUR nation has done during WW2 does not compare the the White Supremist crimes... Just one example Sosnowiec (South of Poland) in a orphanage the SS had a game "poping the skulls" of children (age 1 - 6) they jumped on the head of a kid if the head popped they won. After WW2 53 bodies were digged out with smashed heads.
@@iwantgoals1566 The creator has stated that it was always going to be a 1 season show. I think he said that before the show even aired. It's just a contained story that was never meant to be continued.
Another interesting paralel between the cops and the 7K: in one of the first shots of the driver, we see his eyes squared in the rearview window, in a similar manner to how the police look in their masks. This may have been unplanned, but it doesn't look like that when you sit behind the wheel yourself, so in my headcanon it's a visual reference.
I think it's kind of ironic many would deride this as somehow a desecration of the original source material and should state we should look to the movie as what "real" Watchmen is, when if anything, it's Snyder's adaptation of the novel that doesn't "get" what the creation was. Moore is an open leftist anarchist and he made the original comic as a satirical deconstruction of what the world would be like if we had modern superheroes. He threw shade on Randian ideology and used the story to state that IF heroes REALLY existed, then we would instead get a bunch of egotistical, destructive, and reckless people who show us that people really becoming superheroes in our world would suck and do more harm than good. IE look at Rorschach. He's supposed to be the Question, but in Moore's vision, he's an angry, sexually stunted, incel-type figure who gets sick pleasure from attacking people, and believes heavily in right-wing authoritarianism. When Snyder made the movie he actually GLORIFIED what the Moore was poking fun and criticizing to begin with. IE it seems Snyder either believes in Rand's objectivist teachings or, at the very least, invokes them in his works so the stuff Watchmen was criticizing was stuff he decided to put in a good light. So instead of a satirical deconstruction we get a glorification of what the original was trying to demonize to begin with. I don't know if others will discover that in the future, but saying the movie "gets" Watchmen while this more down to Earth show that tackles more with modern day politics couldn't be further from the truth. It's like how people trying to prove it was bad because it got "cancelled" when the fact is that the creators decided they just wanted one season and were ready to move on. Either saying that it got canned through ignorance or straight-up dishonesty.
The movie is almost a line-to-line reproduction of the graphic novel, a very faithful adaptation, so what you are describing isn't because of Snyder's presentation. The characters in the movie and book are the same. It is simply because Moore wrote a good antihero, maybe one that was too good for his own liking - to the point where he would go on to criticize his own readers for liking Rorschach despite his flaws. And how could people not? The things supposedly making him unlikable is dressing like a dirty hobo, being lonesome, looking down on other people because of his strict moral standards and being sadistically violent, but those things only make him unpleasant, in comparison to the objectively evil people he is getting rid of and his faithfulness to truth. I think that is the only reason Watchmen is such a good read, the opposition between genocidal Ozymandias acting like a self-appointed messiah in comparison to the angry maniac Rorschach who, despite not measuring up to any image of an ideal and balanced "good person" is actually doing the right thing. Had he written it as a black-and-white, good vs. evil type story, it would have been total trash, so perhaps he accidentally wrote something a lot more thoughtful than his personal political ideology.
The movie on its own isn’t too bad. Sure it misunderstands it’s source material at some points but considering how unfilmable the original story was, we should be glad that we got the movie at all. Besides, visually it acts as a good supplement to the comics by bringing certain scenes to life in spectacular fashion
Regarding the HBO show, I had already made up my mind after watching a few videos on TH-cam. It seemed like The Last of Us 2: a dumpster fire where the criticism was constantly being deflected into a woke vs anti woke internet war. I’m very glad that I actually watched it anyway to make up my own mind about it.. it does an excellent job at preserving some critical themes from the original, but adapting it to tell a story about race. If only they didn’t get Dr Manhattan so horribly wrong in the show
@@mlgmake The entire premise of argument is undone by one fatal flaw in it. Rorschach is not an anti-hero. Anti-heroes are people we end up rooting for even though we shouldn't as opposed to regular heroes who we do root for and should root for. If you want an example of an anti-hero, go look up certain runs on Catwoman, the 90's interpretation of Carmen Sandiego, Deadpool, Boba Fett in the Mandalorian, etc. Rorschach, however, in the original script is designed at his core to be a terrible person. He gets pleasure from seeing people he doesn't like get hurt, he's emotionally and sexually stunted, and despite all of his "truth-searching" he ends up working for that world's equivalent of InfoWars or Newsmax. IE Rorschach being the one who gets the "truth" yet is still basically a walking joke and caricature of what the Question would be like in real life is, again, part of the reason why Moore made the book and it shows in the finished product. IE if a vigilante reporter really wanted to find all that stuff to get the "truth" he'd most likely be an unhinged chud. In fact, in interviews, even Alan Moore can't stand people who look positively on the character when he realized people didn't understand he was a warning. From a 2008 interview: _“I wanted to kind of make this like, 'Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world'. But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans, that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic! So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?”_ And when you see how Snyder didn't seem to understand The Dark Knight Returns was also satirical and incorporated all of its iconography, visuals, and approach to the fight with Superman as deadset serious, this all makes sense now.
Thanks for another Episode of "The Philosophy of..." I didnt know there was a Watchmen Series, and i just binged it because of your video. Great analysis! Keep going on the Philosophy- and the "Deep or Dumb"-Series!
I find it really funny that the "Cyclops salute" is more or less the sign-language profanity for "^sshole" put on one's forehead. That's HILARIOUS! Edit: Spelling corrections.
One of the most surprising aspects about the discussion on HBO's Watchmen is just how few people (In the US at least) have actually experienced and can empathize with trauma. I don't wish or expect the majority of people to have gone through what I have, certainly not, I just don't know how to connect to anyone who's never felt pain. I'm a white guy, while the races of the characters in this story were important, they weren't important to me because they were humans who've experienced some significant levels of trauma I could empathize with. It's honestly just sad the degree to which people try to shield themselves from reality EVEN when watching fiction.
A sad truth I realised after watching the finale and happily bounding towards TH-cam expecting unilateral praise. This show was a masterpiece and highly adept at discussing such uncomfortable views. If only more shows existed like this, it would lead to an enlightened society. Alas, not many can put their feelings and prejudices aside to embrace truth.
Oh boy do I relate with this in some deep ways. That being said, appreciating that race is important to them (those who have really experienced it) is still super important even if it isn't the main factor in your own empathy.
@T S Depends on your meaning. With how brief your question is and your use of the word your (did you mean you're?) there are certainly explanations that could include changing fundamental aspects of who you are when you accept you're more than just a "victim of past trauma" (that is, a "Mask" in HBO's opinion) even though those around you still focus on that aspect. It's not easy to do that, to see yourself in a manner society at large doesn't, but nothing in HBO's story is about making easy choices.
ScuzoidMelee Yeah that’s what I dislike about western media and education system. Anytime a reference is made to black history, all we’re ever shown is slave ships and the civil rights movement. Black history is deeper and more illustrious than just that.
Nice to see a video on this show that isn’t made by some angry nerd in their basement who doesn’t understand that the source material isn’t just about superheroes being violent and having sex. I’m looking at you, Zack Snyder.
By the end of the season this rose to be one of my favorite shows ever. The reaction online when it came out (and even in this very comment section) just showed how relevant the theme still is.
I found it hilarious how many people thought this show was too woke...Considering how much of it ACTUALLY HAPPENED, and how characters IN THE SHOW thought the WORLD had become too woke. Like how in the FIRST EPISODE, a cop needing to wait for permission before being able to even DRAW his gun directly caused the death of a civilian because the cop couldn't SAVE them.
issue was less the wokeness, issue is the writing was trash. Comic plot was a multi layered story about ethics, is it ok to kill one million to save billions, a super powered being questing what is the point of life when your the most over powered thing in the world. The show's plot was a mary sue character has to stop a racist whit person gang because racism is bad.
@@dmcoub78 Mary Sue implies Angela had no flaws when she was engaging in police brutality throughout the show, something she learned from being an officer in Vietnam where people are executed for terrorist crimes. Goes back to police abusing their power, like racist cops who ACTUALLY JOINED THE KKK IRL. And that's not multi-layered to you? Just cause it deals with black people problems? Did you watch this video? The show's plot was about the cruelty of men in masks and how lingering trauma from that can grow through generations, which is explored through Adrian's story, through the Vietnam subplot with Manhattan being used to enforce American idealism, through Angela's story, through Will's story, and through Looking Glass's story. There's literally all of that and all you can focus on is the group that didn't even end up being the real bad guys in the end and killed themselves through their own stupidity.
“2/3 of men experience MPB by the time they’re 35” I’m a decade from the deadline and I’m already approaching a combover, I repent whatever I did in my past lives to deserve this
Bernardo Heusi - The sponsor pitch portion claimed the product eased the symptoms of hair loss _as well_ as stimulating new hair growth. So, if the symptoms of hair loss aren’t the same as growing hair, what the heck are they?
Something you didn't mention about the Trial of Veit, which is ultimately important: Adrian told the judge to do that with the pigs. It was all a play he wrote years ago. Adrian was renouncing his godhood and content with sitting in pig shit.
Bro this is by far my favorite breakdown by you guys😌🙏🏾💯. The immense layers of analysis was impeccable 🔥💯 u guys r good at this. I've been watching forever love you guys 💯
The reason it thrives: It's not because of those who commit the evil acts. It's because of those who turn a blind eye and pretend like the evil acts are not happening in the first place. Being silent is being complicit.
@Michael Freed On the other hand lobbying needs to exist because the public is pretty stupid in general and need to be tricked into doing the right choices. It all depends on the people in charge.
@Michael Freed Lobbying refers to a politician or public official seeking to influence an issue. These people are voted in by the public because they are usually more intelligent and display leadership qualities. Im saying lobbying is needed to persuade people to address an issue. Whether its for good or for bad depends on the politician or public official they elected.
@Michael Freed I think our opinions on the intelligence of the people compared to our public officials and politicians is different. I also believe persuading people without money is considered lobbying. This why I think lobbying is necessary.
@Wisecrack you forgot the doctrine of swine! There's an idea in moral philosophy, a refutation of utilitarian morality, called the doctrine of swine. It holds that, if the purpose of morality is to increase happiness and decrease pain for the most amount of people, then human moral purpose is no different from animals such as pigs. That's why pigs were judged as Veidt's peers - because his plot to save the world ('killing millions to save billions') is the epitome of utilitarianism.Apart from that one small oversight, brilliant video!
@@mirosawirzyk5247 I see this comment all over the comment section, what do you mean?! Do you want them to mention Generalplan Ost as well as discussing the Holocaust?
While I know the 7K Rorschach masks call back to the original vigilante, I’ve always loved how obvious this show makes another significance of it: The Rorschach test is about interpretation, what you see and understand in this series of inkblots and how it might differ from what others see and understand. Most of the series we follow Angela who is living in this world where her race is a continual issue and battle she has to fight for - and then we finally meet the Senator, who looks at the same world and sees his own oppression. The same world but two completely different experiences and understandings of it.
You made a show that I'd largely ignored seem a lot more interesting. Now I need to figure out how to watch it for free. Thanks Jared. Your presence always makes the content more enjoyable and palatable. You're the best ma man!
This might be a minor theme, and I don’t really have understanding or even vocabulary in philosophy so bear with me, but I can’t not see the deliberate and brilliant contrast the show makes with Snyder’s movie. It’s easy to notice the “tribute” (I would actually call it a knock) with the fake show that’s in Snyder’s style, which also doesn’t reflect the events it adapts accurately, just like the film. But more importantly, Lady Trieu, who was eventually portrayed as the villain, was reading The Fountainhead, which Snyder wants to adapt into a movie. To me, the show makes a conscious leap from Snyder’s cynicism to optimism. One of the most important lines I saw, was “considering what he could do, he coulda done more,” and then Angela, who just had new, healthy, healing breakthrough with trauma, gets his powers. It’s not abandoning the nihilism from Moore’s book, but providing a more hopeful reaction to it than any other characters’ from the book. I don’t know whether that made sense to you. To me, whether you are into the show depends on whether your worldview was already influenced by that hopefulness. And in my view conservatism is more pessimistic, therefore you see ppl carrying conservative views into watching this video or just being anti-progressivism, leaving comments trashing the show (and somehow thinking it’s legitimate objective criticism). What you make is greatly impacted by your ideology, even if you don’t know or understand you have an ideology. This is a comment on Zack Snyder. It explains why sometimes his movies are thematically inconsistent and confused. The same can be said to his fans. I think this explains the division on The Joker, on whether it was a good take that “no matter what Superman does it always leads to more bad things,” and on whether Thanos was right.
I think your philosophical vocabulary is just fine. Don't let people tell you otherwise. And yes I agree. The jump from cynicism to optimism not only reflects snyder's version, but also Moore's. I like how the show ends with well, a black woman becoming God. Too on the nose??? I think not. Every kind of racial prejudice influences history, politics, society etc so the animal of 17th century becomes a literal God in 21st. But the social very intelligent I might also underlines the racial divide right now. It's interesting to think how the supposedly suppressed white man of this century is reflected in our art. Well with films like the green book you can actually see it happening.
@@jandemars580 nazis wore the symbol maga wear maga hats and chant for one man. Antifa don't chant for one person they are opportunists. You only say antifa to deflect from truth you know if any crowd is like the nazis is the maga crowd who wear nazi attires and carry the nazi flag and storm government buildings.
Justice requires power though. Untethered, we have little to no motivation to think twice about frivolous act of violence and/or greed we'd otherwise perhaps easily get away with. And even with a justice system there exists a continuous criminal element. Nothing ever ends.
@@FredEdeXIII Justice and crime may be relative depending on context, but the thing that determines them is absolute. Power is absolute. Power shapes the paradigms of justice and crime we have. So, in my opinion, the question then becomes, who has that power?
Also it requires power to move. Your body is electrical goo, that’s all our nervous system is, powered by other electrical goo. Ultimately it’s up to the individual to stay out of harms way and to not contribute harm, because if one were to think power is the problem, well you’re simply better off dead, because once again, you literally couldn’t circulate your blood without power. All other forms of power are simply abstractions. There is no power that “THEY” have, because “THEY” are just a bunch of “YOUs”. You don’t have to take on a “they” because “they” is an abstraction. All power is, is energy. You are energy. If you look after yourself and conduct yourself in a harmonious way with your immediate surroundings at all times, that’s what living a good life is about. Not thinking about some fictitious “they” somewhere over the horizon, when all of the individuals that make up the “they” have their own fears/anxieties/hopes/dreams/etc. This whole “power” thing in the way people mostly think about it have been completely had by propaganda, which is completely conceptual. You’ve basically let an idea, or ghost, control your entire reality. Good luck with that.
I saw her choosing manhattan's powers as part of the theme of how no one in watchmen is without flaws. Even the protagonist who has just learned how dangerous unchallenged power can be, is still seduced by the option o gaining power herself, presumably because she can be safer and still be a vigilante this way. This would tie into the "nothing ends" because having another manhattan will start the cycle anew
I'm sorry, but what you just said is just extremely absurd. Especially when you actually consider how stupid the ending to the show is. Simply because of the many plot-holes in Manhattan's plan and what Angela does, starting with: 1. WHY THE HECK WOULD MANHATTAN GIVE HIS POWERS TO ANGELA? The show just established Manhattan didn't sacrifice himself because HE WAS A DANGER to the world, he did so because HIS POWER BEING IN THE WORLD at all resulted in other parties trying to attain it. So by passing his powers off to Angela, all Manhattan has done is put the woman he supposedly loves in extreme danger. What happens if someone finds out that Angela had been given Manhattan's powers and finds a way to take them? What if Lady Trieu's daughter/mother grows up with a chip on her shoulder and comes for vengeance? Also, even though the Millennium Clock was destroyed, the capability of taking Manhattan's powers still exists. 2. Something that was never explained in the show is to what extent are Manhattan's powers being adopted. So in terms of Keene, Trieu, and Angela gaining Manhattan's powers, I'm sure they would take his teleportation powers, his ability to mold matter, but would that also include his PERCEPTION OF TIME. The whole point of Manhattan being such an all-powerful superhuman was that his perception of time made him so apathetic that he didn't even bother to use his powers for while nothing bad, nor for any real good on Earth. So wouldn't the same happened to Keene, Trieu or Angela? Again, it's very much glossed over in the show, but it make's Keene and Trieu's plan pretty stupid. Because are they really just gonna assume that they won't turn to complete and utter apathy due to their warped perception of time? And if they think not, WHY? Same for Angela too. 3. If you're argument the fact that, "But the ending is ambiguous, so we don't actually know if Angela got the power.", here's why that's even more stupid. Ambiguous endings only work, WHEN THEY HAVE A POINT. When the answer to a particular question would detract from the theme of the story. Some of my favorite films like 12 Angry Men, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Taxi Driver, The Thing, Blade Runner, Total Recall, American Psycho, Doubt, Inception, an A Separation have ambiguous endings. But that's because the focus of what we were seeking an answer to wasn't to point of the movies. In the graphic novel of Watchmen, the ambiguous ending as to what will happen when Rorschach's journal is revealed to the world has a point. Because Alan Moore never intended for an answer to be given. Whereas in the show, the ambiguous ending really has no purpose and doesn't make any sort of point. If Angela has been given Manhattan's powers, then we are faced with the problems I've already discussed. But if Angela hasn't been given Manhattan's powers and she just face-plants into the pool.... well okay. But either way, whether she got the powers or not, not showing the audience the outcome doesn't do anything. It doesn't offer a prompt discussion there are no thematic elements to dissect and talk about. They just don't show us the ending. And instead of coming off as deep or insightful, it comes off as pretentious and condescending as crap. So yeah, I have never seen a show where the writers didn't seem to care at all what choices they made to run the story ending up as a total disaster. No amount of awards will ever make a show like this a masterpiece.
Watchmen was the kind of you loved after finishing it. Then you realize all the underlying meaning and love it even more. Then you start to doubt whether it was all intended. Then you love it even more after discovering that you hadn’t even scratched the surface.
Just took time to catch up on this show in quarantine and was NOT disappointed. The Tusla race massacre blew me away. I've never heard of such a thing. Incredibly harrowing to see such a thing. I Googled it, assuming it was made up and found the real event. I have been shaken to my core imagining this happening in real life. Excellent video with great research. Loved it.
Something to take into consideration about Watchmen's stance on the state (particularly Weber's definition of it), is Moore's own politics, namely: Anarchism. All forms of anarchism are above all else against the state & any heirarchies it might create (capitalism, racism, sexism etc.). There's also the issue of Redford becoming president & its impact on the face of America. Redford in this case being a liberal, an ideology which despite popular consensus is *not* left-wing, and is heavily criticised by those who actually are, including anarchists. Anarchist critiques of liberalism argue that it does nothing to address society's issues, opting to shove it under the rug instead, which as we see is a big problem with the version of America we see in Watchmen. Racial issues are a particular sticking point, as liberalism is viewed by anarchists as only paying lip-service to progressive ideology (or "performative wokeness" as it's referred to now), playing identity-politics when the world is at stake. In Watchmen, despite acting like they're inclusive, it's evident that American society at large doesn't actually care for the lives of African-Americans or Vietnamese immigrants, at least not to the same extent as white people. This is mostly paratext, but I feel it was worth mentioning. Great video.
In today’s comments... the great debate. People with an actual opinion on the show and can discuss their view with intelligence vs idiots who use the words “woke agenda” because the show had the balls to deep dive into systemic racism
Its a generational thing. Younger people of this generation lack the exposure to history. And thus hang on to buzzwords they heard on the internet like “woke agenda” because of their willful and inherent ignorance.
You guys should do an episode of Alan Moore's run on Miracleman! I know it's a comic, but it's really up your alley, give it a shot and I know you'll love it!
Veidt using those people to write a message is an adaptation of Tales of the Black Freighter, where the pirate uses the bodies of his crew to build a raft to save himself. Ultimately, this was also Veidt's arc in the original story, using the dead bodies of millions to "save" humanity.
This did not even cross my mind but you're 100% right.
A key difference being the pirate in TotBF didn't kill his crew to make the bodies to make the raft, but sure.
@@WisecrackEDU 17:30 why do you omitted certain historical facts? This is not the first time you white wash crimes against humanity to proof your point... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
@@mirosawirzyk5247 Could you elaborate on how the video "white-washes" crimes against humanity? Not just a wikipedia link.
@@mirosawirzyk5247 Explaining the concept of interpreting history based on prior events and not giving a full analysis on the events brought forth does not "white wash... crimes against humanity". This video isn't about analyzing those events. That just served as an EXAMPLE to better explain the CONCEPT to viewers of this video and use that concept in their analysis of Watchmen. The topic of the video titled "The Philosophy of Watchmen (HBO)". Not "Analysis of Generalplan OST"
_"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking... The solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."_
*--- Albert Einstein 🕙 (Watchmen)*
Aw man i didn't know einstein was just a watchmen character
@@enternalking8527 He's the one watching the Watchmen.
Honestly I think we would've invented nuclear weapons without him eventually.
@@Anonymous-zd1ow he knows that, thats why he said that he rather becoma a watchmaker, to free him from the burden
This was the moment Albert Einstein became watchmen.
It occurred to me after I finished the series that, in true Watchmen fashion, Judd's true identity was the KKK outfit and his face was his mask.
It was very curios that his wife suffered the same treatment. In the early episodes she appears as a darling kind sweetheart of a woman, but in the final episodes her mask slips and we see her true ugly bigoted face. In the last episode even her voice changes to a deeper tone. That was a very nice touch which i just realized after reading your comment. Man i have to watch it again!
Oh, my God. A video with almost 30 minutes narrated by Jared. This is a glorious day!
Let's hope this time he will not white wash the crimes od Stalin or Mao...
17:36 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
What a lovely day
I like him a lot more than the guy in the baseball cap, who always looks like he’s laughing at his own ‘jokes.’
Seriously how perfect?
"A God Walks into Abar" is the finest and most dense episode of television ever created and I will did die on that hill.
I sometimes wonder if the writers of the show gave Angela the last name abar just to have that punchline in an episode title.
Breaking Bad's Ozymandias and BoJack Horseman's The View From Halfway Down are the most critically- acclaimed episodes of TV but I understand the sentiment, that was a great episode.
TheWatcher328 I’m glad the critics have favourites too.
1983horizons1 I rewatched that episode last month and it gets better after each viewing. The writing for that episode was phenomenal
1983horizons1 I’ve honestly watched this same episode at least 4-5 times
Jeremy Irons look PERFECT as Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias
I haven't been impressed with Irons in anything I've seen him in before but he is CRUSHING IT as Veidt!
javvieh I’m just saying is that he looks good in the role
@@AvvieLanche you haven't been impressed by Jeremy irons in the past?? You do know he was the voice of Scar in the original Lion King.. Right?
Jeremy is an absolute BALLER. We should relish every role we get to see him in. He was especially great here because he fits not only the look of Adrian from the comic book, but also his style and personality. What better man to play a megalomaniacal, self-righteous "raging narcissist" as he puts it. The man commends a spectacular presence on screen and one cannot help but just sit and listen to him.
I did not know that the Tulsa race massacre happened. I’m black and I asked my dad (who watched the show) about it and he went a little deeper of what happened with me. I’m a 17 year old history nut and I never heard about this anywhere but this show and this video. One why isn’t the massacre even mentioned in our textbooks. Two thanks Jared for going over the deeper stuff in this video. Keep up the great work guys. :)
Hi, well I'm not in the same place actually. I'm a 22 years old Armenian who live in Turkey.
For my part,
First, I see that the governement uses this sort of historical information as some kind of political power element. The governement compose it's own character by acknowledging it or teaching/spreading it in controll. Or not even mentioning sometimes.
Second, it's the people who passed this incident, usually don't talk about it. I heard about Armenian "mass deplacement/genocide"(whatever is the name..) when I was 14/15 years old. And I even now I don't know what exactly happened objectively speaking... Armenians who live in Turkey usually have more tendency to adapt in this area. In this case it's hard to dig a wound and live with pain. I see that in this place peole have tendency to forget it time to time to continue to live.
I'm sure that kind of subject always need time to reveal still, I suppose it's something at least good even starting to talk about it..you know.
I have no connetions to black culture frankly. But it made me feel connected to see this kind of moments can also have connecting value in it.
I hope you to may have valeuble journey about it man :)
It sounds like knowledge of it was actively suppressed, at least in public. That's why you have to tell your kids about everything you've experienced. You can't trust strangers to tell your story.
I only learned about it recently too. No accident that history books seem to forget it.
If you consider yourself a history nut, then do your own research outside of what you learn in school, especially high school. School is full of bias to paint the US beautiful colors, hiding it's dark secrets to the youths in school. That is why they don't teach these kinds of events in the school system because it shows the US' true colors in a way that the people will begin to oppose its policies.
Adrian Trujillo oh no I do it’s just so hard to find good information on that stuff
Now this is quarantine content
Or at least it would be, if it weren't only one season
@@ECL28E I like how the fact that its only 1 season long subverts the "Nothing ever ends" tag line.
Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross KILLED it. Amazing soundtrack. Great show.
I knew I couldn't have been the only one who was bopping to the themes
"How America was really won" gave me goosebumps.
I love that the episode in an almost religious awe where we found at the end that Dr Manhattan is Angelas husband. The piano portion of david bowies Is there life on mars plays.
🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Check out the score to VIETNAM By Ken Burns ..
Trent and Co. Are just amazing..he has exploded with talent one wouldn't think was from NIN. Unless you're a deep fan, such as I.lol
The weirdest part of the show was Dr. Manhattan wearing clothes.
Incredible commentary right here, mate, very weird indeed to see a man who wears clothes wear clothes
@@Weeb1367he doesn’t wear clothes lmao, that’s why it’s weird.
DOWNGRADE of the Watchmen
"You can't heal under a mask"
Brought me to tears
Even though I really don't like her character I agree with that statement. She was channelling her pain through a mask buy never healed from it.
The most memorable point of this show.
You need air.
It took him that long to figure that out. 🤷🏾♂️
You guys have no idea how long I've been waiting for this one
What happened to the lube guy? We need a season 2 just for that
Petey was Lubeguy! :) He got busted
Since the beginning I thought it was him, it was kinda obvious, but I didn't remember him being busted 🤔
@@maximuscesar It's in Peteypedia
Here’s a shitty guess: It was Nite-Owl.
@@SpellhausChannel Who was petey?
I’m convinced Adrian Veidt caused the pandemic...
Elon musk*
But all we've seen is man's inhumanity to man; a grim reality rarely enclosed within the pages of a comic book or blockbuster movie.
sconnor8469 the attempt and subsequent failure to unite man under a common fear applies
....he’s evil and genius enough to create a plague that bypasses his universe and jumps into ours. I see it
King Mob To stop Trump and Kim Jon un launching us into nuclear Armageddon. Genius! 🤣
This whole show was amazing. I've never seen a theme tackled so well. The line "You can't heal under a mask. Wounds need air" addressees historiography too and not just personal trauma. Everything implies that the history of the world is erased and ignored and a false face is put on like a mask. Just like Veidt, and how his living behind the mask of an omitted truth makes him lonely. Our history is not what we would all want it to be. The only way to fight the fear of the unknown is to take off the mask of our narrative of history. Nothing ever ends, so why ignore or change the past. The past is here with us now, so why cover it with a mask?
This is literally what Roshack believed and told Dr Manhattan at the end of the movie, always tell the truth never compromise
It's kind of weird how he became the bad guy in the series
Gavin Wentworth it's because it's a horrible cycle of focused disenfranchisement to generate a profit off of people and maintain an air of superiority over said people's. I've come to grips with the fact that nothing is ever Truly solved just fixed for a time and a Price because there's no money in solving problems.
C V Rorschach isn’t portrayed as the bad guy in the series 💀
@@madnizz1511 yeah I feel like a lot of people misinterpret him. He was flawed for sure but so is everyone in the show. Hes not so much a bad guy as he is a for lack of a better term a useful idiot as he believed in inherent righteousness that people just didn't have and he ended up creating the very things we wanted to destroy in his death
@@cv4809 but he didn't become the bad guy of the show, though. Rorscharch was in no way involved with the Kavalry, they stole his identity (the mask) and twisted his legacy to justify their own agenda.
This episode has me having flashbacks from all the historical methodologies and theory classes that I took in undergrad and grad school. You guys have outdone yourselves.
Watchmen and historiographic analysis!? Now this is my jam
Future video, Cypher?
One of the finest series of television I’ve seen in a long time. I’m kinda ashamed I doubted it at first.
Dauda András Crybaby
Dauda András Okay
Same!
I loved this show so much. I’ll tell you what bummed me out. How uncharacteristically quiet EVERYONE WAS!!! That show ended up in the dregs of TH-cam where people didn’t know how to talk about it. All the channels with research teams stayed quiet and I wondered why. It just dealt with so many themes that were important. I’m glad you guys covered it in the end but definitely needed this during the show’s presence.
There was the issue of it being locked behind a paywall. Also, everyone was yelling *"ESJAYDUBBLEYOO PROPAGANDA!!!1!"* for the first few months, so waiting for that to calm down was a good idea.
Hawkatana Anti-sjw's are pretty much just as bad as Sjw's now. They literally act in the same exact way lol.
Did you really wonder why? Its because they either can't or dont want to discuss black topics. Its the same reason most people will say Killmonger was too extreme in black panther but allow the Avengers to do the exact same thing for the exact same reason in Endgame.
@@kingjoeblack5 Maybe it's because they're also a fan of the graphic novel, and this took that and completely twisted it. Novel was political, sure. Not about race. Rorschach has been murdered as a character because the bulk of people will go off of what they saw in this show and associate him with racism. He was probably the least biased character in the novel. And also the most beloved.
@ShaddowSabbath Nice straw man. I bet that'll get you some good social morality currency.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video like many others. I’m a black English teacher and so many times I have to implement resources and articles discussing narratives and events from America’s history which are hidden or are not told. Why? Because historical events are often told from those in power and students are warped to see things from a predetermined perspective. The part where Angela has to discover her past is reflective of how many African Americans have a yearning to reconnect with the motherland or how many of us live in trauma and learning about our past identities reinforces the pain. Or the part about being proud of the white supremacist legacy, deeply reflects the ongoing argument about retaining confederate statutes and buildings but it alienates or refusing to acknowledge the oppression these monuments represent. It does raise a compelling question should the U.S preserve these things as parts of history, and if so, why not tell the full story? Like the controversy surrounding the national anthem but anyway Well done wisecrack!
Tory Spring I remember how disgusted I felt when I’d only just found out that the Tulsa race riots were real after watching Watchmen. A lot of our history, good or bad has been suppressed by western education systems. I only found out about the Tuskigi air men when I was a teenager and my parents have spent their whole lives reminding me that Nigeria, the land that I hail from, has a rich history of a political innovation and wonderful natural resources. The point Wisecrack made during the vid was spot on, the current state of the media/propaganda machine does feel like political or psychological warfare on people of ethnic backgrounds.
As a German it feels kinda ironic how the US put the "culprit history" in every germans head but deny their own culprit.
@Bobby Slater Yeah the US mainstream thinking is probably what gives them their power: "we are the good guys". If somebody else makes the same thing as we do, it is bad! But if we do it, it is good, because we are the good guys!
@@k3daevin seriously, let's talk how the German media omitted the responsibility for WW2...
How still people who Dr Mengele experimented on must fight in court for compensation for there lost health?
The SHIT what YOUR nation has done during WW2 does not compare the the White Supremist crimes...
Just one example Sosnowiec (South of Poland) in a orphanage the SS had a game "poping the skulls" of children (age 1 - 6) they jumped on the head of a kid if the head popped they won.
After WW2 53 bodies were digged out with smashed heads.
Mirosław Irzyk German soldiers during WW2 were straight savages same as those lynch mobs, corrupt officials, jealous neighbors, and white supremacist.
Thank you for referring to the event in Tulsa as the "Tulsa Race Massacre."
Just finished it and honestly this is one of the greatest shows ever made
😬
@@neurotic_nerd3808 its not that bad but def not "one of the greatest shows ever made"
I was super skeptical of the show as a huge fan of the book but WOW was it really great. Thanks Wisecrack for the deep dive!
Zalintis So sad we’re not getting a season 2. So many fans hated it the main conclusion I come to as to why saddens me further.
@@iwantgoals1566 while I'd say I dont want a second season as first one was so self contained, I also felt that way about the novel! Haha
@@iwantgoals1566 The creator has stated that it was always going to be a 1 season show. I think he said that before the show even aired. It's just a contained story that was never meant to be continued.
@@V.elociraptor which is a good thing, as it meant the team was focused on telling a complete story in one go.
This was a an amazing breakdown of HBO's Watchmen which is one of the best Mini series I have ever watched, Thank you Jared and the Wisecrack team!!
Another interesting paralel between the cops and the 7K: in one of the first shots of the driver, we see his eyes squared in the rearview window, in a similar manner to how the police look in their masks. This may have been unplanned, but it doesn't look like that when you sit behind the wheel yourself, so in my headcanon it's a visual reference.
The word is CANON. A cannon is a weapon.
@@kuhpunkt Yeah, you're right. But I'm not stupid, I just don't write english sentences that often.
This show was fantastic. The editing and cinematography was SUPERB. Those smooth as silk transitions made my heart sing.
I think it's kind of ironic many would deride this as somehow a desecration of the original source material and should state we should look to the movie as what "real" Watchmen is, when if anything, it's Snyder's adaptation of the novel that doesn't "get" what the creation was. Moore is an open leftist anarchist and he made the original comic as a satirical deconstruction of what the world would be like if we had modern superheroes. He threw shade on Randian ideology and used the story to state that IF heroes REALLY existed, then we would instead get a bunch of egotistical, destructive, and reckless people who show us that people really becoming superheroes in our world would suck and do more harm than good. IE look at Rorschach. He's supposed to be the Question, but in Moore's vision, he's an angry, sexually stunted, incel-type figure who gets sick pleasure from attacking people, and believes heavily in right-wing authoritarianism.
When Snyder made the movie he actually GLORIFIED what the Moore was poking fun and criticizing to begin with. IE it seems Snyder either believes in Rand's objectivist teachings or, at the very least, invokes them in his works so the stuff Watchmen was criticizing was stuff he decided to put in a good light. So instead of a satirical deconstruction we get a glorification of what the original was trying to demonize to begin with.
I don't know if others will discover that in the future, but saying the movie "gets" Watchmen while this more down to Earth show that tackles more with modern day politics couldn't be further from the truth. It's like how people trying to prove it was bad because it got "cancelled" when the fact is that the creators decided they just wanted one season and were ready to move on. Either saying that it got canned through ignorance or straight-up dishonesty.
This cannot be said enough.
The movie is almost a line-to-line reproduction of the graphic novel, a very faithful adaptation, so what you are describing isn't because of Snyder's presentation. The characters in the movie and book are the same. It is simply because Moore wrote a good antihero, maybe one that was too good for his own liking - to the point where he would go on to criticize his own readers for liking Rorschach despite his flaws.
And how could people not? The things supposedly making him unlikable is dressing like a dirty hobo, being lonesome, looking down on other people because of his strict moral standards and being sadistically violent, but those things only make him unpleasant, in comparison to the objectively evil people he is getting rid of and his faithfulness to truth. I think that is the only reason Watchmen is such a good read, the opposition between genocidal Ozymandias acting like a self-appointed messiah in comparison to the angry maniac Rorschach who, despite not measuring up to any image of an ideal and balanced "good person" is actually doing the right thing. Had he written it as a black-and-white, good vs. evil type story, it would have been total trash, so perhaps he accidentally wrote something a lot more thoughtful than his personal political ideology.
The movie on its own isn’t too bad. Sure it misunderstands it’s source material at some points but considering how unfilmable the original story was, we should be glad that we got the movie at all. Besides, visually it acts as a good supplement to the comics by bringing certain scenes to life in spectacular fashion
Regarding the HBO show, I had already made up my mind after watching a few videos on TH-cam. It seemed like The Last of Us 2: a dumpster fire where the criticism was constantly being deflected into a woke vs anti woke internet war. I’m very glad that I actually watched it anyway to make up my own mind about it.. it does an excellent job at preserving some critical themes from the original, but adapting it to tell a story about race. If only they didn’t get Dr Manhattan so horribly wrong in the show
@@mlgmake The entire premise of argument is undone by one fatal flaw in it. Rorschach is not an anti-hero. Anti-heroes are people we end up rooting for even though we shouldn't as opposed to regular heroes who we do root for and should root for. If you want an example of an anti-hero, go look up certain runs on Catwoman, the 90's interpretation of Carmen Sandiego, Deadpool, Boba Fett in the Mandalorian, etc. Rorschach, however, in the original script is designed at his core to be a terrible person. He gets pleasure from seeing people he doesn't like get hurt, he's emotionally and sexually stunted, and despite all of his "truth-searching" he ends up working for that world's equivalent of InfoWars or Newsmax. IE Rorschach being the one who gets the "truth" yet is still basically a walking joke and caricature of what the Question would be like in real life is, again, part of the reason why Moore made the book and it shows in the finished product. IE if a vigilante reporter really wanted to find all that stuff to get the "truth" he'd most likely be an unhinged chud.
In fact, in interviews, even Alan Moore can't stand people who look positively on the character when he realized people didn't understand he was a warning. From a 2008 interview:
_“I wanted to kind of make this like, 'Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world'. But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans, that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic! So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?”_
And when you see how Snyder didn't seem to understand The Dark Knight Returns was also satirical and incorporated all of its iconography, visuals, and approach to the fight with Superman as deadset serious, this all makes sense now.
Thanks for another Episode of "The Philosophy of..."
I didnt know there was a Watchmen Series, and i just binged it because of your video.
Great analysis! Keep going on the Philosophy- and the "Deep or Dumb"-Series!
I find it really funny that the "Cyclops salute" is more or less the sign-language profanity for "^sshole" put on one's forehead. That's HILARIOUS!
Edit: Spelling corrections.
I thought it was the white power symbol used irl
So its like saying "butthead"? XD
@@mancamiatipoola Um... yes.
_"Time tells no lies"_ *-Giriko*
_"Book of the end"_ *-Tsukishima*
*I T S T I M E T O S T O P* _-Filthy Frank_
One of the most surprising aspects about the discussion on HBO's Watchmen is just how few people (In the US at least) have actually experienced and can empathize with trauma. I don't wish or expect the majority of people to have gone through what I have, certainly not, I just don't know how to connect to anyone who's never felt pain. I'm a white guy, while the races of the characters in this story were important, they weren't important to me because they were humans who've experienced some significant levels of trauma I could empathize with.
It's honestly just sad the degree to which people try to shield themselves from reality EVEN when watching fiction.
Jep people really can't stand feeling uncomfortable AT ALL..so much so that we humans can't empathise on the most basic things
A sad truth I realised after watching the finale and happily bounding towards TH-cam expecting unilateral praise. This show was a masterpiece and highly adept at discussing such uncomfortable views. If only more shows existed like this, it would lead to an enlightened society. Alas, not many can put their feelings and prejudices aside to embrace truth.
Oh boy do I relate with this in some deep ways. That being said, appreciating that race is important to them (those who have really experienced it) is still super important even if it isn't the main factor in your own empathy.
@T S Depends on your meaning. With how brief your question is and your use of the word your (did you mean you're?) there are certainly explanations that could include changing fundamental aspects of who you are when you accept you're more than just a "victim of past trauma" (that is, a "Mask" in HBO's opinion) even though those around you still focus on that aspect. It's not easy to do that, to see yourself in a manner society at large doesn't, but nothing in HBO's story is about making easy choices.
ScuzoidMelee Yeah that’s what I dislike about western media and education system. Anytime a reference is made to black history, all we’re ever shown is slave ships and the civil rights movement. Black history is deeper and more illustrious than just that.
Nice to see a video on this show that isn’t made by some angry nerd in their basement who doesn’t understand that the source material isn’t just about superheroes being violent and having sex. I’m looking at you, Zack Snyder.
You have a yoda pfp dude, get down from your high horse 😂
Clicked to watch immediately! I've missed "Philosophy of..." episodes
Me too.
Totally! Those Podcasts are boring.
This show addressed intergenerational trauma brilliantly!
By the end of the season this rose to be one of my favorite shows ever. The reaction online when it came out (and even in this very comment section) just showed how relevant the theme still is.
This show is amazing. One of the best written shows I’ve seen in a while. It’s so heartbreaking so many people hate this show for stupid reasons.
"The past isn't dead. It's not even past."
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THIS ONE. VERY VERY IMPORTANT SHOW.
I found it hilarious how many people thought this show was too woke...Considering how much of it ACTUALLY HAPPENED, and how characters IN THE SHOW thought the WORLD had become too woke. Like how in the FIRST EPISODE, a cop needing to wait for permission before being able to even DRAW his gun directly caused the death of a civilian because the cop couldn't SAVE them.
issue was less the wokeness, issue is the writing was trash. Comic plot was a multi layered story about ethics, is it ok to kill one million to save billions, a super powered being questing what is the point of life when your the most over powered thing in the world. The show's plot was a mary sue character has to stop a racist whit person gang because racism is bad.
@@dmcoub78 Mary Sue implies Angela had no flaws when she was engaging in police brutality throughout the show, something she learned from being an officer in Vietnam where people are executed for terrorist crimes. Goes back to police abusing their power, like racist cops who ACTUALLY JOINED THE KKK IRL. And that's not multi-layered to you? Just cause it deals with black people problems? Did you watch this video? The show's plot was about the cruelty of men in masks and how lingering trauma from that can grow through generations, which is explored through Adrian's story, through the Vietnam subplot with Manhattan being used to enforce American idealism, through Angela's story, through Will's story, and through Looking Glass's story. There's literally all of that and all you can focus on is the group that didn't even end up being the real bad guys in the end and killed themselves through their own stupidity.
@@GoliathWarfare My toughts exactly.
@@GoliathWarfare bingo. dmcoub78 that was a tool ass comment
@@dmcoub78 offended white boy. Minorities are taking my white heroes away. I knew there was at least going to be one in the comments
I'm oiled up and ready to go!
"slides into storm drain"
Ready to enter.
This Extraordinary Being had to be one of the best episodes of television I've had the pleasure to watch.
Too bad the show starts to dip in quality right after that episode
Suddenly the masks don't seem so crazy lmfaoo
“2/3 of men experience MPB by the time they’re 35”
I’m a decade from the deadline and I’m already approaching a combover, I repent whatever I did in my past lives to deserve this
this seams like some sort of math problem " at what point will 50% have experienced it ?"
“The symptoms of hair loss”... Inquiring minds want to know.
Hair loss?
Bernardo Heusi - The sponsor pitch portion claimed the product eased the symptoms of hair loss _as well_ as stimulating new hair growth. So, if the symptoms of hair loss aren’t the same as growing hair, what the heck are they?
not gonna lie when, when Jared started talking about his hair during the sponsorship section it got to me...
Something you didn't mention about the Trial of Veit, which is ultimately important: Adrian told the judge to do that with the pigs. It was all a play he wrote years ago. Adrian was renouncing his godhood and content with sitting in pig shit.
this was one of my favorite wisecrack videos, and instant classic
Ty so much!! This is the most beautifully respectful analysis/&dissection l've ever been blessed to hear👑
The most important time to remember that there is no "end" is when someone is justifying the means they want to use.
Bro this is by far my favorite breakdown by you guys😌🙏🏾💯. The immense layers of analysis was impeccable 🔥💯 u guys r good at this. I've been watching forever love you guys 💯
Its really sad and disgusting that evil like this thrives
Which evil
The reason it thrives: It's not because of those who commit the evil acts. It's because of those who turn a blind eye and pretend like the evil acts are not happening in the first place. Being silent is being complicit.
@Michael Freed On the other hand lobbying needs to exist because the public is pretty stupid in general and need to be tricked into doing the right choices. It all depends on the people in charge.
@Michael Freed Lobbying refers to a politician or public official seeking to influence an issue. These people are voted in by the public because they are usually more intelligent and display leadership qualities. Im saying lobbying is needed to persuade people to address an issue. Whether its for good or for bad depends on the politician or public official they elected.
@Michael Freed I think our opinions on the intelligence of the people compared to our public officials and politicians is different. I also believe persuading people without money is considered lobbying. This why I think lobbying is necessary.
You guys did it again. Best video essay on Watchmen I've seen.
@Wisecrack you forgot the doctrine of swine! There's an idea in moral philosophy, a refutation of utilitarian morality, called the doctrine of swine. It holds that, if the purpose of morality is to increase happiness and decrease pain for the most amount of people, then human moral purpose is no different from animals such as pigs. That's why pigs were judged as Veidt's peers - because his plot to save the world ('killing millions to save billions') is the epitome of utilitarianism.Apart from that one small oversight, brilliant video!
How about doing a philosophy of superheroes in general. Talk about the origin of the idea, how it evolved, and what it means.
Amazing like always Jared and staff.
I'm so sad there won't be a season 2...
17:36 the proof the show is sometime dumb as f!!ck en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
@Mors Gelida it is simply shitting on dozen of European countries and on few milion people that died during WW2...
Nah. I like that it was a contained story
@@mirosawirzyk5247 I see this comment all over the comment section, what do you mean?! Do you want them to mention Generalplan Ost as well as discussing the Holocaust?
im honestly glad it's not getting a season 2
This was such a good show & an apt follow up to the original.
Highly underrated & a future classic.
I hope there are more seasons for it to follow.
lol it is about a very different theme than the original
While I know the 7K Rorschach masks call back to the original vigilante, I’ve always loved how obvious this show makes another significance of it: The Rorschach test is about interpretation, what you see and understand in this series of inkblots and how it might differ from what others see and understand. Most of the series we follow Angela who is living in this world where her race is a continual issue and battle she has to fight for - and then we finally meet the Senator, who looks at the same world and sees his own oppression. The same world but two completely different experiences and understandings of it.
You made a show that I'd largely ignored seem a lot more interesting. Now I need to figure out how to watch it for free.
Thanks Jared. Your presence always makes the content more enjoyable and palatable. You're the best ma man!
I’m actually really glad you guys watched this series. I saw how much hate it was getting online even though I really liked it.
@@Chris-rg6nm those people get nervous when two or more non white men are on screen.
@@Chris-rg6nm dude 2 words blue dildo.
I onestly do not care about politics but this show was bad cmn.
@@francescosanson7148 What do you have against blue dildos?
I’m still amazed at how many Americans learned about the Tulsa Massacre through episode 1.
This might be a minor theme, and I don’t really have understanding or even vocabulary in philosophy so bear with me, but I can’t not see the deliberate and brilliant contrast the show makes with Snyder’s movie.
It’s easy to notice the “tribute” (I would actually call it a knock) with the fake show that’s in Snyder’s style, which also doesn’t reflect the events it adapts accurately, just like the film. But more importantly, Lady Trieu, who was eventually portrayed as the villain, was reading The Fountainhead, which Snyder wants to adapt into a movie. To me, the show makes a conscious leap from Snyder’s cynicism to optimism. One of the most important lines I saw, was “considering what he could do, he coulda done more,” and then Angela, who just had new, healthy, healing breakthrough with trauma, gets his powers. It’s not abandoning the nihilism from Moore’s book, but providing a more hopeful reaction to it than any other characters’ from the book.
I don’t know whether that made sense to you. To me, whether you are into the show depends on whether your worldview was already influenced by that hopefulness. And in my view conservatism is more pessimistic, therefore you see ppl carrying conservative views into watching this video or just being anti-progressivism, leaving comments trashing the show (and somehow thinking it’s legitimate objective criticism).
What you make is greatly impacted by your ideology, even if you don’t know or understand you have an ideology. This is a comment on Zack Snyder. It explains why sometimes his movies are thematically inconsistent and confused. The same can be said to his fans.
I think this explains the division on The Joker, on whether it was a good take that “no matter what Superman does it always leads to more bad things,” and on whether Thanos was right.
I think your philosophical vocabulary is just fine. Don't let people tell you otherwise.
And yes I agree. The jump from cynicism to optimism not only reflects snyder's version, but also Moore's. I like how the show ends with well, a black woman becoming God. Too on the nose??? I think not.
Every kind of racial prejudice influences history, politics, society etc so the animal of 17th century becomes a literal God in 21st.
But the social very intelligent I might also underlines the racial divide right now. It's interesting to think how the supposedly suppressed white man of this century is reflected in our art. Well with films like the green book you can actually see it happening.
Can someone break this down for me better cause I feel what is being said but I'm not grasping the content
AFRO_NiNjA25 Perhaps helping you understand can help me articulate it better. Do you mind letting me know which part you don’t understand?
The philisophy of blue man group.
Interesting analysis for a convoluted, yet fascinating show.
awesome video. one of my favorite series of all time and with the level of heavy philosophy, I'm not upset if this stands alone
alternative timeline: "nazis in america!"
this timeline: "hold my beer!"
And calling themselves Antifa as if everyone will think they aren't
@@jandemars580 nazis wore the symbol maga wear maga hats and chant for one man. Antifa don't chant for one person they are opportunists. You only say antifa to deflect from truth you know if any crowd is like the nazis is the maga crowd who wear nazi attires and carry the nazi flag and storm government buildings.
That was a phenomenal video watched it like three times so far and am still astonished.
Power cannot justify itself...no matter the intentions.
Seems like the theme in regards to the villian.
Justice requires power though. Untethered, we have little to no motivation to think twice about frivolous act of violence and/or greed we'd otherwise perhaps easily get away with. And even with a justice system there exists a continuous criminal element. Nothing ever ends.
@@FredEdeXIII these things come from capitalism tho. so we need to abolish it, anf power respectively
Power, justice, and crime exists outside of any economic system. We just have to keep pushing towards progress.
@@FredEdeXIII Justice and crime may be relative depending on context, but the thing that determines them is absolute. Power is absolute. Power shapes the paradigms of justice and crime we have. So, in my opinion, the question then becomes, who has that power?
Also it requires power to move. Your body is electrical goo, that’s all our nervous system is, powered by other electrical goo. Ultimately it’s up to the individual to stay out of harms way and to not contribute harm, because if one were to think power is the problem, well you’re simply better off dead, because once again, you literally couldn’t circulate your blood without power. All other forms of power are simply abstractions. There is no power that “THEY” have, because “THEY” are just a bunch of “YOUs”. You don’t have to take on a “they” because “they” is an abstraction. All power is, is energy. You are energy. If you look after yourself and conduct yourself in a harmonious way with your immediate surroundings at all times, that’s what living a good life is about. Not thinking about some fictitious “they” somewhere over the horizon, when all of the individuals that make up the “they” have their own fears/anxieties/hopes/dreams/etc.
This whole “power” thing in the way people mostly think about it have been completely had by propaganda, which is completely conceptual. You’ve basically let an idea, or ghost, control your entire reality. Good luck with that.
Wisecrack: *insert ads about preventing hair loss*
Me: *itchy as hell because there's no barber shop open during quarantine*
Great shout out to Chinua Achebe
Awesome video. Very thought provoking.
This show was astoundingly good. Probably for the best that it's a standalone
This analysis video is seriously long. Good job you guys! There are lots of ideas you've covered in one video
Great to see you back at it again Jared!
Yeah Jared one more time shits on few dozen countries and few milion people killed on WW2 17:36 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
I saw her choosing manhattan's powers as part of the theme of how no one in watchmen is without flaws. Even the protagonist who has just learned how dangerous unchallenged power can be, is still seduced by the option o gaining power herself, presumably because she can be safer and still be a vigilante this way. This would tie into the "nothing ends" because having another manhattan will start the cycle anew
I'm sorry, but what you just said is just extremely absurd. Especially when you actually consider how stupid the ending to the show is. Simply because of the many plot-holes in Manhattan's plan and what Angela does, starting with:
1. WHY THE HECK WOULD MANHATTAN GIVE HIS POWERS TO ANGELA? The show just established Manhattan didn't sacrifice himself because HE WAS A DANGER to the world, he did so because HIS POWER BEING IN THE WORLD at all resulted in other parties trying to attain it. So by passing his powers off to Angela, all Manhattan has done is put the woman he supposedly loves in extreme danger. What happens if someone finds out that Angela had been given Manhattan's powers and finds a way to take them? What if Lady Trieu's daughter/mother grows up with a chip on her shoulder and comes for vengeance? Also, even though the Millennium Clock was destroyed, the capability of taking Manhattan's powers still exists.
2. Something that was never explained in the show is to what extent are Manhattan's powers being adopted. So in terms of Keene, Trieu, and Angela gaining Manhattan's powers, I'm sure they would take his teleportation powers, his ability to mold matter, but would that also include his PERCEPTION OF TIME. The whole point of Manhattan being such an all-powerful superhuman was that his perception of time made him so apathetic that he didn't even bother to use his powers for while nothing bad, nor for any real good on Earth. So wouldn't the same happened to Keene, Trieu or Angela? Again, it's very much glossed over in the show, but it make's Keene and Trieu's plan pretty stupid. Because are they really just gonna assume that they won't turn to complete and utter apathy due to their warped perception of time? And if they think not, WHY? Same for Angela too.
3. If you're argument the fact that, "But the ending is ambiguous, so we don't actually know if Angela got the power.", here's why that's even more stupid. Ambiguous endings only work, WHEN THEY HAVE A POINT. When the answer to a particular question would detract from the theme of the story. Some of my favorite films like 12 Angry Men, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Taxi Driver, The Thing, Blade Runner, Total Recall, American Psycho, Doubt, Inception, an A Separation have ambiguous endings. But that's because the focus of what we were seeking an answer to wasn't to point of the movies. In the graphic novel of Watchmen, the ambiguous ending as to what will happen when Rorschach's journal is revealed to the world has a point. Because Alan Moore never intended for an answer to be given. Whereas in the show, the ambiguous ending really has no purpose and doesn't make any sort of point. If Angela has been given Manhattan's powers, then we are faced with the problems I've already discussed. But if Angela hasn't been given Manhattan's powers and she just face-plants into the pool.... well okay. But either way, whether she got the powers or not, not showing the audience the outcome doesn't do anything. It doesn't offer a prompt discussion there are no thematic elements to dissect and talk about. They just don't show us the ending. And instead of coming off as deep or insightful, it comes off as pretentious and condescending as crap.
So yeah, I have never seen a show where the writers didn't seem to care at all what choices they made to run the story ending up as a total disaster. No amount of awards will ever make a show like this a masterpiece.
Imagine what kind of episode a high Jared would make.
I never expected and couldn't have asked for a better breakdown of Watchmen. Thanks guys!
Watchmen was the kind of you loved after finishing it.
Then you realize all the underlying meaning and love it even more.
Then you start to doubt whether it was all intended.
Then you love it even more after discovering that you hadn’t even scratched the surface.
Ok I'm sold. I'm putting this show in my watch queue!
This Video has become so important following the Black Lives Matter protest you guys were ahead of the curve.
Bravo. Look forward to re-watching and absorbing this over the weekend. Thanks.
Just took time to catch up on this show in quarantine and was NOT disappointed. The Tusla race massacre blew me away. I've never heard of such a thing. Incredibly harrowing to see such a thing. I Googled it, assuming it was made up and found the real event. I have been shaken to my core imagining this happening in real life. Excellent video with great research. Loved it.
What? The video ended? I was just getting comfy. More! That was so informative!
“Wounds need air”
This may be one of your best videos! Thank you!
What did you think about HBO's Watchmen?
Poop...pure poop.
ORRIBLE SHOW.
Stoped watching at the second episode.
Bleach. Nuff said.
It wasn't entertainment; it was propaganda.
It wasn't Watchmen, like at all. It was straight up political propaganda with a side of white guilt wrapped up in a Watchmen skin suit.
Nice to have you back, Jared. We missed you 👍👍👍
Damn this episode is DEEP! I have an even deeper appreciation for this amazing show now!
Big words... spoken coherently... about an interesting show... so grateful for this show and the hard work put into it
Watching this now hits particularly
Right? Its so crazy
Spot on analysis.
Something to take into consideration about Watchmen's stance on the state (particularly Weber's definition of it), is Moore's own politics, namely: Anarchism. All forms of anarchism are above all else against the state & any heirarchies it might create (capitalism, racism, sexism etc.).
There's also the issue of Redford becoming president & its impact on the face of America. Redford in this case being a liberal, an ideology which despite popular consensus is *not* left-wing, and is heavily criticised by those who actually are, including anarchists. Anarchist critiques of liberalism argue that it does nothing to address society's issues, opting to shove it under the rug instead, which as we see is a big problem with the version of America we see in Watchmen. Racial issues are a particular sticking point, as liberalism is viewed by anarchists as only paying lip-service to progressive ideology (or "performative wokeness" as it's referred to now), playing identity-politics when the world is at stake. In Watchmen, despite acting like they're inclusive, it's evident that American society at large doesn't actually care for the lives of African-Americans or Vietnamese immigrants, at least not to the same extent as white people.
This is mostly paratext, but I feel it was worth mentioning. Great video.
Great video. Loved the show too
Actually dr. Manhattan created those clones of the couple he first saw love from?
I prefer these narration videos.
In today’s comments... the great debate. People with an actual opinion on the show and can discuss their view with intelligence vs idiots who use the words “woke agenda” because the show had the balls to deep dive into systemic racism
Its a generational thing. Younger people of this generation lack the exposure to history. And thus hang on to buzzwords they heard on the internet like “woke agenda” because of their willful and inherent ignorance.
Finally! Been waiting this breakdown, so much depth and power behind this show it's good to get a deeper look into it's ideology
As someone who was a History major in undergrad, Watchmen is the perfect demonstration of "History is EVERYTHING!"
You guys should do an episode of Alan Moore's run on Miracleman! I know it's a comic, but it's really up your alley, give it a shot and I know you'll love it!
Great video HBO's Watchmen was such an amazing show.
Mentions watchmen.
Comments sections explored.
My favorite part of this watchmen series was Meta... It triggered all of the 'Right' people ❄️
@@arcarsenal1380 facts