Precise Driling of MFT tabletop Holes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I want to check my theory about way to precise drilling of MFT tabletop holes. As for me, this method better than template way because it don't multiply possible mistake each step.
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It's amazing the ingenious ways people come up with to make MFT/3 tables without a CNC. Well done sir.
Thank you Sir
This is the most intuitive design for an MFT I've seen yet. And you make it easy to follow along with what you're doing and why.
You'd make a great instructor in my humble opinion.
Thanks for sharing your work and skills.
God bless you 👍🏾
Genius thought out of the box solution! Great, cheap, simple, reliable, repeatable, almost perfect results. What else?
Totally logical approach: one perfectly square corner is the guide for self-centering of the router jig. Any slight lack of precision in the hand drilled holes is irrelevant; they only provide relief to make router's plunge cut easier. Precision flows from square corner of sheet, to perpendicular grooves, to router jig's splines, to centered plunge cut. Totally elegant approach. Thank you for posting.
Like everything you do Mirock, this is a beautifully elegant solution. As long as the two sides of the benchtop presented to the table saw fence are at a perfect 90', any other errors cancel themselves out. So if the table saw fence is slightly off square, the entire grid pattern will be rotated slightly, relative to the benchtop edge, but all the columns and rows will remain at 90' to each other.
If the router jig isn't perfectly centered on the intersection point, it just shifts the entire hole grid in one direction or another but doesn't change the relative alignment.
Even if the individual alignment tracks aren't perfectly squared, the rows remain at 90' to the columns so standard 90' cuts will still be perfectly accurate; the only thing that would be affected would be 45' cuts. Lovely work!
Actually if the saw fence is off slightly u'll just get a slightly fatter kerf. It'll still be parallel to the indexing edge. Hopefully the fatter kerf would be apparent when positioning the boring jig and operator would install some thin shimstock to eliminate movement (tedious but its only on the fat kerf line(s))
Very clever. I have need to do this with two work benches I made last summer. I think this will work great. Many thanks for this idea.
Amazing build. I recently discovered your builds after seeing a link for your Systainer Table Saw. I think they are ingenious. Although I got a little worried about the cord on your jumper getting pulled into the saw. Keep up the good work.
You are simply brilliant. As brilliant as any chess champion. What a great, yet simple way to achieve super accurate spacing.
Nice you like it! I hope it will be usefull!
Your English and video's are very good.
I hope it was comprehensible. Thank you!
A method not seen before. Very smart.
Yes, usually people use template. I don't rely on that. Good method showed Ahthoney Zeh with his pegboard and Kriss from FastEasySmartTool with lr32guide
+mirock's woodshop I believe your method is "strong on the squareness", even if the holes are not extremely accurately spread (based on reading your scale and setting by hand).
+Nico Smets accuracy I think is about 1/10mm.
My approach to hole location was to use a piece of pegboard with the holes already precisely spaced. I marked the holes I wanted and drilled thru just far enough to mark the locations with a drill bit that matched the pegboard hole dia. Then I removed the pegboard. I then drilled pilot holes on thru using an old drill tool that made them straight & Verticle to the surface. I then used a 3/4 spade bit to mark the circumference. then I used a 3/4 forstner bit & the drill tool to hog out 95% of each the holes. The finishing touch was hogging out the hole remainder from the bottom with the spade bit from the bottom side Therefore no splintering on the bottom side. This made it possible to put the dog hole into the existing bench top without removing & disassembling the whole thing. But yes, I did screw up & misplaced one hole. I will plug it with 3/4 dowel stock glued into the hole and then drill again in the correct location.
Wish I watched this before using a forstner bit to drill all the dogholes in my torsion box top. Great job and very meticulous.
Hi, thank you. It is pretty accurate way. Maybe when you'll make next toptable it would be useful
You are very good at innovative solutions! Keep up the good work. You are inspiring a lot of people!
After 4 years, I still consider this method the work of a genius.
It's a bit ironic though to see you gravitate towards mostly high end tools anno 2020.
Global approach to measuring always beat local.
I never seen this method before. I will try it at my own project! Great video!!! Thanks!!
It works very well
Great idea. I might try this, but use 1/4" or 3/8" plywood and sandwich on 3/4" MDF. After I router the holes, flip the MDF over so the top of the table was the clean side with no tear out. Probably leave the plywood mounted to the MDF on the table so clamps have a firmer surface.
Nice work as usual Vladimir. I received the metric rule you made for me and I'm very pleased with it, thank you!
Genius. Well played 👍🏻
Great build Vladimir. Thanks for posting it.
+Terry Cairns You are welcome, Terry!
Time-consuming, but excellent!
Perfect, every corner. You are my idol.
You are my woodworking idle.
too much for me). Thanks!
Use your saw-kerfed original as a template for producing 30mm or so MDF panel... no tear-out & you can make a nu one anytime !! 😎👍☘️
Dear Mirock,
I have just discoverd your videos and the accuracy of your work is commendable. This however is genial. I have been wondering how to go about this for some time. I would not want to buy a Festool MFT table as it is beyond my pocket and not very sturdy but this allows for budget production at great precision.
Thank you.
Yes, I use my table pretty long time and don't find mistakes. Thank you Jack, I see you understand my principle - measure each step from zero but not - from previous step
This is a great idea!! Thank you Vladimir.
+Doug Alcoe Welcome!
All is perfect Vladimir, thank you!!!
Thank you my friend!
Nice idea Mirock I will denitely use this when I will be building my version of a mft bench!👍
I'd like if this way will be useful for someone.
This is genius. We'll done 👍
Smart use of custom jig to drill the MFT pattern 👍👍👍 but….. finding that very square piece of wood is the most challenging 😂
wow! I love this!! am going to use this method to drill my top. thanks for making this video!!
It really works!
A very clever solution. I never saw it before.
+Noddi1964 Just I don't have CNC)
Hey Miro i'm from Poland. U make good job. I like it. Subscribed U. Good luck.
Thank you! Greetings Poland!
Great video, I was thinking the template was the only DIY solution. As others have mentioned before me, please stay safe and keep sharing :)
Thank you! Common way with stepping template leads to side each next step
Id give anatomy to get that kind of precision. I couldn't do that in 2 days let alone the amount of time it took him. Patience. I'll get there. Great job!
Pure genius! Молодець
Nice one, no messing about, job done well. Thanks.
Wow this is amazing! well done
elegant method. well done.
It works well for me. I hope also for someone. Thank you!
Looks great but what happens when you lean over the tablesaw and the strings from your hood get stuck in the blade? 1:50
He'll probably shrug it off. Just like his fingers ^_^
Bloody good idea keep up the good work mate.
thank you
Nice work man.
Thanks for sharing.
Love it!!! What a clever solution. Best of luck, cheers.
СПАСИБО!!!! 👍👍👍
Many thanks for this good idea and showing this video.
Good method.
Thank you Savvas. Btw, first I thought these lines are unwanted side effect, but now I see some useful moments from them. They works as marking and also there is possible to use them for fixing any elements on the table accordigly square gemetry.
That's awesome! I love that idea for a workbench.
This is an brilliant idea. Thank you very much! Helps me save the 200 € for the parf dog system (which would still be nice to have).
Good job. Task well done ;)
Thank you, it was important think of this project.
why is there so many genius in Russia? you looks like fighter as fedor. but there is sophisticated computer in your head. i look around some of your video that is awesome! your building ways are never thoughted by anyone.
Really I am not from Russia but Ukraine. There is big difference, especially now
+mirock's woodshop oh sorry. its my mistake. im suppport Ukraine. peace will be there.
do you use the table top as is - ie. with the lines? Or do you flip it over and hide the lines on the underside? Does it make it too flimsy? Going to try this, this week probably, and just want to check beforehand. thanks so much for sharing Mirock. Go Ukraine
There is just 1.5mm debth of lines - no problem at all. I used table with them on top and reversed also. But you know, with these lines better because they can be used as coordinate web with correct angles. I use it for workpiece placing many times
Nice idea and workflow. I have to try something similar when my workshop will be ready. Subscription to this channel as well. Good luck and million of subscribers! :) Привет из соседнего Харькова.
Привет привет. Вчера глядел твое "как попасть в IT")
+mirock's woodshop С изложением мысли пока трудно, но я стараюсь :)) Хотел спросить сам чем занимаешься кроме хобби?
+Tiger Tech Skype mirock-mirock
Проект набирает обороты. Мой ЛАЙК первый. Удачи. Квадрат 96х96 или 100х100. И откуда эти 96?
96. Это мебельный стандарт 32.
+Vladimir Evdokimov Thank you! Успехов!
that is one good lookin table saw router table thing, very pretty indeed, i might try to steal some ideas from that
Brilliant idea !
Great design. Im thinking to build one. But question is what bit you used to drill 20mm. I was thinking to use frostner but but read that this is bad idea.
Nice idea.. Thumbs up
Your method is very original and I am sure will give an accurate result. However, may be a little bit complicate? Anyway, many thanks for sharing. Regards,
+Claudio Di Luzio I don't know how to do simpler
I don't understand how the table saw cut is perfectly accurate. Are you positioning the fence by eye or with some other way?
Bravo, very well done.
Mirock you are a genius, but be careful of you as Shure122 is true. We need you for a long time :-)
Clever. Elegant.
Wow, nice job and video
+Scott Boyles (Scotts Garage Cave) Thank you!
Fantastic build I will make one what bit did you use in your router
Genius!
А что если взять "фрезу фостнера" и не засверливаться предварительно? Получится?
VideoBigFoot99 нет
Great video! What is the brand of that router? By the way...subscribed!
Festool, german brand, quite expensive but unvaluable quality and performance
Very clever! What kind of table saw is that and where did you get the fence system? Very cool!
It is my own homemade tablesaw
It is not always possible to check with a square and can one always trust one's square. A sheet can be measured to check it is square with a tape measure. First check that the edges are exactly parallel. If they are then measure the two diagonals. If the diagonals are identical then the sheet is square. If not it can be adjusted with a plane. Check that the edges remain straight whilst manually planing and keep checking both for parallelism and across the diagonals. Manually that is, an electric planer does not offer sufficient precision. I offer this such that it may help those who wish to make this bench top but do not have a large square that they can trust.
nice job
Great job
I liked it!
!!!
Don't you risk tha the board warps becsus the vener is cut on on side ?
This is very good idea !!!
awesome mate thanks
Nicely done!
So, for each of the "index" lines cut with the tablesaw, the fence was manually reset, "eyeballing" the new position for each pass, or am i mistaken in what I saw occurring? Then, at each of the intersections of the index lines, a hand drill was used to drill each pilot hole, for every position. Isn't that what i saw? How do you consider that more accurate than using a template with indexing pins? If I make a proper template, I need only position 3 holes (in an L pattern) accurately. If these holes are off by 0.001" then yes my hole spacing will be off by that
amount, but every hole off by exactly that amount. Any error is repetitive, but not additive, and I assure you I can easily achieve 0.000" error in laying out those 3 holes. Using the method shown, every hole can be off in the 3 different operations used to locate the pilot hole.
Before you guys "close ranks" and become defensive, just think carefully about what i am saying. Watch the video again, and think about the human positioning error you are witnessing.
Yes. Each time I set fence by eye with a scale, but each time from stable beginning changeless constant point. So my mistake each time could be only from this start point and cannot be multiplying like with "next hole based" way. Next drilling operation I did just for reduce body and make easier work of my router. I took 15mm drill and made imprecise holes. Final size of holes is 20mm. These 15mm interim holes doesnt matter to accuracy of final holes. Final accuracy achieved by accurate cross of lines where router template base is fixed each time for final precise drilling.
Also, as it seems, you are "eyeballing" the pilot hole on your router jig on the drill press (at 3:20). This could make the jig to be uncentered to its table saw cut lines. So the final result produces every hole at the compound error of the "table saw error" mentioned by RustyCas and the "jig error".
if the jig is used in the same direction at all times, all the holes are offset, negating any jig error as a whole
This is a novel solution, and always fascinating to woodworkers come up with different ideas, but I think this method is unlikely to match the accuracy of either the Parf method or a Festool LR32 track method shown by Peter Millard.
Brilliant
that was brilliant
Vary good sir
Great job,thanks for that,
I bought this for my friend for his birthday as we just moved into a new house and he finally has room for a workshop. The bench was very easy to set up th-cam.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh They center support is a little difficult to snap in and out of place at first but at least then we know the bench is secure. It was a pleasant surprise when we saw it came with clamps. I apparently missed that in the description. My friend loves the versatility of the bench. Great starter bench for his workshop and easily transportable all over our property. I wish the bench was a little taller but the other features of the bench more than make up for that.
Put some tape over the holes before routing and there wont be any tear-out in the wood.
be carefull of the string of your sweater, it could be grab by the blade. ...by the way, I like your videos, :)
Ok!)
I'm not sure the precision. First the grid is done by table saw and its fence, second the router guide 4x4 is not very big might accumulate the error. No play just eliminates guide/top panel play error.
Перейшов по посиланню з відео, де коментарі вимнуто (розумію, чому), щоб подякувати. Підписався.
...Не в тему: англійська чудова :)
+Mirock's Woodshop why all those holes have to be so precise? I dont get it. Im not asking only about your video - but about every single mft video on the web. Im curious because from all the videos I saw at youtube there wasnt any single necessery reason why those holes distances should be so perfect at those diy mft. Keep up great work, hope you will find some time to respond.
O.k. I'm not Mirock but to answer the question, the holes need to be on a perfectly square and regular grid because they are used to align the Festool guide rails with either a saw or router and if they are not disposed on a perfectly square grid your resulting workpieces will not be square resulting in poor work.
Since when is hand drilling considered precise ?
Hi, when doing predrilling and cylinder drilling prior to routing. Are you worried about it not being straight? What did you predrill with (4 or 5 mm)? And what did you use before using router (14, 16 or 20 mm)? I'm just worried it will not be OK for me :/
+Emil Tisell I took smaller size of drill. 15mm
And if hole would be 20° crooked I guess the 20 mm routing bit would take care of it?
Yes, but try to make straight)
Seems quite well designed if that much accuracy is needed. If not needed then the methods illustrated will satisfy anyone with OCD.
You should have used down spiral router bits and routed from the top to help prevent that tear out.. Also, see if you can get some help for the Diresta disease. You seem to be developing a bad case of it. You know, when you write/stencil your name on everything. Good video though.
"Direstitis" - It's an annoyance, but a good practice, especially with people ripping off content and posting it to other sites. At least people know who really made the content and can look you up if they want to know more.
!!damn nice. great work!
what router bit did you use?
Festool 1010
It`s a good idea!
Were you expecting to make two pilot holes for each dog hole? Then flip over and do again? Seemed like you were expecting the router to just work on the jig you made. Seemed pretty tedious to have to go thru all that over and over.
I know this is old, I think the first two holes were to remove some material making the router work easier on the bit to keep it cooler. The jig in the crosshatch cuts kept the router on target.
Several places for inaccuracies here- setting the fence against a scale by eye, getting the hole in the middle of the + jig, wooden setsquare... Fine if you want it approximately correct. For better accuracy you need metal jigs and a geometry based derived 90deg. If you have metalworking equipment it is possible to make a similar set of jigs to the PARF system. Better still, find an owner of such and borrow it...
can't understand why someone would give this a "thumbs-down".
What type the table saw do you use?
Selfmade
MMMM, Home made square, home made table saw, Festool track and i assume track saw in the case on the shelf. Really??
What flag is that? It is kind of like the Danish flag.
I find it hard to drill all those lines.
Is that a craft table you're making. The base looks exactly like a table my grandmother bought from Ikea, only hers came with a proper worktop made of 2" material. She uses the table for scrapbooking and knitting.
Looks like a really nice table you have there. Where did you get the design ; Martha Stewarts magazine? How much did it cost to build? I bet your glad you now have a 1 piece top.
If the holes were a little bigger, you could use the top as a tray to carry shot glasses (vodka)....LOL
+S H about 100$. Yes, one piece top is a very well for me. Ukrainian vodka called "Gorilka".