The Black British Gender Pay Gap No One Is Talking About
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2024
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Greetings folks, find all the sources (and some extra ones) here: elywananda.substack.com/p/the-black-british-gender-pay-gap And subscribe while you're there! ✊🏿
I am a Caribbean woman and went to uni and have been in managerial roles since my late 20s.
The reason is clear from the stats around the academic attainment, but as a woman raising a black boy, I would also add that from my experience, gender differences in terms of learning styles and motivation to learn tend to be different between the sexes. This means that as parents of black boys from Caribbean decent, we must think very carefully how we socialise and motivate our boys to make the right choices.
The nature and nurture perspective is one of the most profound areas for me, since many of our boys tend to be very bright but still underachieve, so we have to understand how and why this happens. So, firstly obviously the school environment is a massive factor, and as a parent of a black boy, please be aware that you have to start advocating for them from the time you know you are carrying a black child, and even more so when you know it’s a boy. Educate yourself on how our black children are made to feel less worthy in the school environment and watch out for the cues. Get active in the school when you notice things are not right and fight for your child. Second, take notice of your environment at home and the people and influences around. Children are very impressionable, so be very discerning of the influences around your precious child. This should include making sure they are in a positive learning environment at home with things like good books and educational resources to hand (watch educational programmes with them). You will be surprised how much they can learn outside of school if you dedicate time. Finally, I would say I have learned so much from my African friends in terms of education. One of the main things I noticed from a young age who was not encouraged to go to uni myself by my parents, was that the expectations were very different for their children. It is a non-negotiable! Aim high… so if you want your child to go to uni, tell them that’s where they are going, actively counteract what society will feed into them to limit their potential and they will get there. My sister did that with my nephew and despite the racism he faced in the system with multiple exclusion etc, he is a mathematics teacher and I am so proud of him. But most of all, I have such respect and admiration for my sister who never gave up on him and she is my role model 🙏🏾
I absolutely love hearing stories like these. Much honour and respect to you and your sister and the children. Your nephew must be a very interesting person to talk to, given his experiences. I've read similar types of testimonies in other comments - emphasising the critical importance of parents advocating for their children and being closely involved. At some point, I want to make a video (or some videos) on how parenting is a seriously intensive thing that requires consistent intentionality, consistency, etc.
@@elywananda thank you for always posting up positive videos to help our people move forward. My nephew was actually the one who shared this video with me and my sister and he introduced me to your channel! He is amazing and has achieved so much and continues to keep rising. He’s such a role model for young black men.
Yes, please do a video on positive parenting. I’m so interested in sharing strategies with our community. We should not be silent on this important issue.
My little boy was called a ‘gay monkey’ at school last week and I had to go into the school, once again to educate them on how to handle racism that is damaging our your black boys and men. No need to scream and shout no matter how much it hurts. We just need to put pen to paper and lay it out clearly and control the narrative. I will never stop advocating for my boys because it’s my responsibility and I will not let my them become a statistics.
Black history month is not about putting on a menu of Jolliof rice and Jerk Chicken! Moreover, it’s not something to think about for only one month of the year, it’s about our lived experience which happens every day of our lives through the eyes of our loved ones and children.
We celebrate you for giving up your valuable time to better our community. Much love and respect ❤️
Brilliant analysis, I will defo have to copy and paste this one
Black male culture is to blame for the underachieving. Anti-intellectualism, fast big money, anti-social and the coddling by the community.
well said
In my family, women in my generation out performed the men probably 5:1 academically. Girls were raised to take on responsibilities & had quite mature heads on their shoulders relatively young, boy's lives were less structured.
I have an autistic son (high achieving), we moved out of a big city to a town with outstanding schools so he didn't have to navigate the social challenges of inner city life. It's been a big sacrifice especially as I was divorced but my son received offers from all the Uni's where he applied, he's just started.
My brother in the US sends his son (15) to a fee paying military academy, he was coasting in school now he's gone from laisse faire about his studies to very engaged, my brother was born here & raised partly in Jamaica, he doesn't play about education.
@@shazj1842 Respect to you for doing what was necessary for your son 🙏🏿
Your comment about boys' lives being less structured is fascinating to me. I wonder why that might be. I wonder if it makes a difference if boys have male siblings, or if they have female siblings (or no siblings for that matter). Could it be that parents tend to nurture their daughters over their sons?
As men we gotta encourage sobriety and business first as opposed to swag alone. Skills/High earning qualifications and strong social skills is perfection in my opinion.
@@PexKAY For sure. The swag will always be there, let's work on the other things then we shine.
Lmao. It's the Black woman who DEMAND swag from us. The same women who are sadly ones only hope at a job because she's the black person with the managerial job.
Why am I not surprised?
I'm sorry, but this is BS. There are no classes teaching swag. You either have it or you don't. Black males who have "swag" get to smash women in their prime and disappear. Black women want non swag Black men when they are in their 30s with someone else's kids.
African parents in the 70s and 80s tended to be more strict and they had your 1 way ticket ready if your grades weren't there where they should be. British born working class Caribbean boys were more able to entertain career aspirations music, football or other "activities" unrelated to uni that would have led to an extended family intervention for an African boy. I think for girls whether African or Caribbean tend to better understand how to navigate school and appear less of a threat to authority figures and gatekeepers. So by the time you get to uni Black British Caribbean boys are like unicorns. This then follows on in to the professions where British Caribben women become socially mobile and their male counterparts don't. And you dont need to be a statistics guy to know how that plays out in terms of which relationships work out and who ends up with who.
@@reginaldamoah8608 Great input. I have a cousin (Ugandan) who was really good at football and got an offer to join Chelsea's academy. His mum wasn't having it and the chance passed him by. And that's fascinating about boys seeming less of a threat. My sons are very young and right now, everyone gushes over them and finds them adorable. But I know that once they get to the early teens and they start rivalling adults in height, that will change. My job is to prepare them for this transition as far as how to still be confident and assertive, but also to be socially smart. I'll come back to this point for sure.
very very true
Mothers tend to push daughter's from what I've found. My sisters and I all have degrees but none of my brothers do.
Interesting you say this because I've seen many report quite the opposite.
@@gardeniainbloom812 Yep, my dad pushed me, yet my mum was upset that I was seeking further education.
Same in my family. Three daughters encouraged to attend uni, whilst my brothers had more freedom and less discipline because they were boys and wouldn’t get pregnant. A very backward way of thinking.
Single mums tend to be a lot harder on their daughters, boys being raised in a single mother setting are a lot more likely to go astray. Mentoring year 9s/10s/11s will go a long way to remedy this. More black men need to be in the lives of black boys.
incorrect. Black men need reparations to assume our natural position of authority over our women and children. When power was taken from our pre-colonial kingdoms it rippled into our families as well. Whites gave resources to our women and addictable male bootlickers hence the social disarray. The same types of people are given "some" positions today.
Black men need to be at work not babysitting children. We don't have mammories 🤷🏿♂️. The children won't be children very long and thus will gain more in the long term from seeing Black men at salaried work of the overemployment type.
If I talk about single mother and boys they will call me a villain 😂😂. I’ll just say if your son reminds you of you BAby father please don’t let that be a reason for you to do unbecoming things
@@hao_9388 I completely agree with this. I talked about this topic in this recent video: th-cam.com/video/4imXGTZUuyU/w-d-xo.html
This is statistically false, as girls from single mother homes are SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to end up in zex work
I see this so often, even in my own home. Two parents are so important to provide balance, this can't be overstated.
Thanks, we need another video on this topic.
This is a phenomenal channel king,
@@SolutionOrientedMan Thank you family 🙏🏿
Brilliant video Ely! I'd love to see more on this 👍🏾👏🏾
Interesting data, I wonder how these pay gaps impact relationships
@@Gracebarm Absolutely. It really does raise questions about relationships.
no need to wonder; two words: boy toys.
My wife and I are both Caribbean, my wife earns 30-40% more than I do.
I love it and I’m incredibly proud of her achievements. We’ve been together since Uni so perhaps it would be different if we had met with this disparity.
I’m just glad I got in when I could 😂.
They impact them greatly!
If I am not mistaken ,Caribbean have one of the highest rate of single mom and divorce,so it definitely does impact sadly
Caribbean men are more hands on. Drug dealers, hustlers, tradesmen’s etc. non taxable or recordable money. However outside of that a lot more Caribbean men rather not work
Another amazing video. Keep going brother!
@@yung_j1146 Thank you family 🙏🏿
How come Caribbeans in the US, do better academically than Caribbeans in the UK? Perhaps the class of people that travelled to both countries.
@@antnam4406 Yeah I think that's a key difference, from what I've read.
Black Caribbean men are always complaining about the system. A lot of them partner with white women so these women take care of them and then they stay at home doing fuk all lol
I’m African and I’ve heard West Indians say they adopted some bad habits of the white working class when they started associating with them in the 80’s. It makes sense because West Indians naturally value education unlike working class whites.
I've been screaming this for thr longest!!!
Great discussion! Schooling in this country has been incredibly difficult. There are next to zero representatives for black Caribbean boys at school due to our low population numbers. I often found myself as the only black boy in class from primary school to university. It’s very easy to label us as uncooperative, which in turn leads to a negative impact on our focus & motivation at school.
We then must highlight the fact that many of us lack a father at home, leading to a higher propensity for bad habits. Then there are the relationship issues suffered post school due to a lack of income & job support. I find it staggering that we have to gain such high levels of academic achievement just to find that other demographics barely even need them. I see many of my peers & colleagues gaining opportunities simply because of community strength.
It would seem that we’re the only group (Caribbean men) who can have all of the certificate’s & qualifications without any sight of economic growth. The UK operates through plausible deniability. The resources are definitely there for our community to observe. However, there are limited pathways to actually attain them. Finally, we let ourselves down as a group because we lack discipline & staying power. A lot of Caribbean men have checked out completely.
when you say checked out, what do you mean?
@@BobJohsnon I mean in terms of attempting to fit into a system that has no space or time for us. The efforts don’t match the rewards that other groups tend to experience. It’s not a blame game, but you can understand why Caribbean men don’t feel incentivize to simply try harder in the UK.
@@afteryoucast Well you have to buy in/ sell out. You live in the white mans country. You have to conform or you become an outcast in mainstream society.
@@afteryoucast This is very sobering stuff, but I think it's essential to be clear about where things are. I find that a lot of time people want to avoid even mentioning these things. And I get it because it's very bleak, but the issues can't be addressed without first identifying them. Thanks for sharing.
@@elywananda 100% agreed. I appreciate you broaching this subject in a statistical manner. I don’t think we need to point fingers. We can address these issues without feeling victimized. Respect 🤝🏾
We place tremendous value on education in the Caribbean and celebrate our children's successes. It is also a competitive environment. Many leave for America at the end of their university/high school, college education or as qualified professionals.This may explain differences between Caribbeans in the USA and those in the UK most of whom areborn there?
Im an older white guy (if that means anything) and there are 3 grammar schools near me.
At kick out time, the kids are majority Asian (and when i say majority i mean 90%). There are next to no black kids, with white representation not far behind.
To me, what i will call "working class" black and white families don't put the same importance on education as Asian families. A lot of Asian kids are brought up being told they must work hard at school and if they do they will reap the rewards.
Firstly, i dont think that is the message a lot of working class kids are getting from home, but secondly for Asian kids i think its more celebrated among peers to achieve academically - certainly more so than with black and white kids (boys).
I can't comment on the black family dynamic, but I'd say in the white working class families there isn't the same respect for older family members that you see in asian families. I may be wrong but my understanding for Asian families is parents expect and kids deliver. Not so sure that happens in many white working class families....even where education is valued.
Sorry bit of a ramble !
Thanks for chiming in. At some point, I'm going to discuss some of these similarities and differences between the different groups as I think there are some important issues in there.
Great insight. I’m of an outlier here as I’m from a Caribbean background. Went to grammar school > top university > work for a hedge fund etc
From my perspective It depends on the social class. As Education was pushed in my household. I can say it was the same for all the middle class Caribbeans I know.
What find interesting in the US Caribbeans do extremely well (education and career wise)
@nathanlopez3918 Yes, they do because most have had their foundational education in the Caribbean where education is valued.
I agree but it is also the reason why you won’t find many Asians in fields like acting ,athletes ,music and other careers were there is no guarantee in success so it is true that their parents encourage them to do well in school but it is also true that many Asian will not try to became a footballer even if they might have the potential but they will never know since their parents never allow them to put 100% in football .
Many years ago I heard a co worker talk about her son. She said "He was born to do manual labor". I was shocked and thought she was kind of mean at first but looking back I think she is an excellent and realistic mom. I hope her son is doing well. At that time he stocked shelves at a large retailer. There is nothing wrong with that.
@@newtrollaccount384 There's power in clarity. If someone starts their adult life doing manual labour, but is free from any debt, has low outgoings, they have a great foundation on which to build. The key is what they do with their earnings and also with their spare time. They should be saving and investing, up skilling, etc. Perhaps most importantly, they should be maturing, getting more and more in tune with their inner self, developing their emotional intelligence, growing in wisdom, all that stuff. Give it 20 years, they will be absolutely soaring.
Its not becoming an "underclass". Black Caribbean are already an underclass based on those statistics.
From what i see here, one option is for boys to be taught the importance of a. Learning a technical skill to earn from, and ger away from corporate slavery. B. Learn the importance of money management, and invest wisely.
I dont think university is for everyone. The corporate environment may be lucrative, but toxic and not great for one's mental health long term.
A good path and strategy for independence regardless of income level may be more valuable for some men.
Then again, perhaps some of these men may be less attractive to the potentially higher earning women in terms of marriage and family building.
@@funkmasterjay Very important points here. I personally think that far too many people go the university-office job route, and as a result many of them end up in mediocre-paying roles, and loaded with debt. And as you say, the corporate office-based work world comes with a lot of bs, particularly once you're starting to go into managerial levels. What we need to do is ensure all children obtain a strong education up GCSE while also becoming learning about themselves and their skills/preferences. Then they will take the next steps that are in line with that.
Traditionally speaking blue collar jobs are gained through nepotism for white men in USA. Their dad, grandad, or uncle hires them after having taught the basic skills in childhood. Black men were not allowed into the trades and unions initially so we don't have the position and numbers to engage in nepotism. Thus not many of us get hired.
This same practice transfered over to white collar jobs as that sector expanded. Thus even with education Black men are having a hard time if not impossibility of gaining employment that is above the underemployment level. A level that has required men to scam, hustle, and commit other part-time crimes to supplement income for a family. In the age of cameras that supplementation is no longer an option nor desirable. Given the anglo culture of usa I'd assume the situation is similar in the UK but it may not be.
Nope. The unions here are very anti-racist and led the integration of minorities and women. Blue collar jobs also actively seek out apprentices and lots of black men are successful in trades
@@apriljoy1094Exactly. I don’t know a single bm without employment. The issue raised here is BW out earning bm and that is simply about higher educational achievement. More BW than bm attend uni. It’s that simple. If you don’t have a degree you’ll have to make do with generally lower paid work. Every bm I know who went to uni is doing fine. If you don’t go to uni it’s fine too but be content with your social status.
There hasnt been any affirmative action targetted to disenfrachised black males throughout history. Unfortunately black boys have been disregarded. There are several initia aimed to black women that are double minorities. Also you need to also look into other aspects of employment.
bingo
you're the only one who has mentioned this, all the DEI talk but 0 input to black men.
@@kreativeforce532what initiatives are exactly were aimed at black females as I’ve never heard of them? Black females just work harder to be successful, complain less and just got on with it.
Great. 👍🏾 Boys need better leadership and character building people (mostly men and yes women too) to showcase it’s possible leading by ACTIONS, so it’s start young, exposure, exposure; experiences turns them into experts 🫵🏾‼️💯 - I live it, 👍🏾
In Western society in general, women are outperforming men in education, graduating more, and also out-earning men (before the age of 30). I think currently the gender narrative is quite gynocentric and phenomena that paints men as being at a disadvantage are ignored. Related to education, males generally display greater variability in traits than females. In terms of intelligence, men have a higher proportion of individuals of low intelligence, as well as a higher proportion of the geniuses - so this may have an effect too. Women also tend to be more conscientious than men which is a personality trait to do with organisational skills that correlates with educational attainment and career success.
In response to your question, I'd say that for the Caribbean community specifically, there doesn't seem to be an impetus for us to do well in education, from my perspective. I wasn't really pushed to excel or anything. I think I managed to get as far as I have because I went to decent Catholic schools throughout my schooling, and I happened to be fairly bright. I went from sitting Maths GCSE 1 year early and getting an A*, to flopping my A levels because of a lack of revision. But fortunately, I got into uni via a foundation year, and have since interned at the University of Oxford, and got a distinction in MSc Data Science. I just submitted a PhD application yesterday. I imagine if I went to a less conservative school, I wouldn't have fared so well. Also, it wasn't really popular to be intelligent: I distinctly remember people calling each other "neeky" for excelling in school. Both my parents were born here too, and my mum got her bachelor's so I think I was also at an advantage in that respect.The fact that my mum got her bachelor's and my dad didn't also reflects the topic. He was studying law but dropped out to pursue music.
I get the feeling at school the boys are just not understood and nurtured by teachers. I left in 1998 and my sister who’s 2 years younger than me had more opportunities at our school than I did. We are mixed Caribbean and from an early age our school pushed my sister but me I got nothing. I think it’s even worse now for the lads
I suspect that the lack of male teachers plays a big role in this sort of thing. I was somewhat lucky that in my primary and secondary school, it was probably 50-50 split. but my understanding is that the teaching workforce (and the school administration) is overwhelmingly female nowadays. In my boys' school there are two males out of maybe 15-20 teachers.
Boys are not. 100years ago this was not a problem (at least not in the usa. idk about uk). I would assume prior to windrush and african nations being independent there were not many Black people in the UK clustered together. Likewise prior to usa integration rifle shooting, combat, trade skills, survival skills they were all taught in school and graded. These are areas where boys thrive and girls would flop in then (and today as it requires fitness). So the girls had to do home economics instead of the things that weren't shooting.
Once integration came about all the skills that Black boys could use to defend themselves from white mobs were removed from the schools. The trades were the last thing (economic defense) to be removed. None have come back except in rare private all white schools. The intention behind this is clear.
@@elywanandathe lack of male teacher plays a big part for sure ,that’s one of the reason why boys in all races are lacking behind when it comes to school compared to women of the same race .Another one could be that boys tend to mature later compared to girls ,I believe they said the level of maturity between boys and girls is between one -two years when they are teen ,but I am not fully sure if it true .
I remember watching a video that analysed elementary teachers (of every ethnicity) in the US on spotting misbehaviour, it showed that black boys were over monitored in school due to implicit bias (e.g. on average they misbehave more so than other peers), they also watched and scrutinized their behavior more carefully and subsequently handed out heavier punishment towards them. In the video they also tracked where the teachers are looking and highlighted the areas in red, which showed
From my experience, the above was true and teachers were a lot more reluctant to provide support to black boys and this was demotivating. It always felt like teachers had their guard up around me. There are also cultural reasons: I felt a lot pressured to misbehave by black carribean kids to feel "cool" and was made fun of and in general my culture didn't appreciate STEM and would have preferred me chasing the arts (as this is the most popular). The other issue comes with mental health support, many black communities do not encourage black boys to talk about their feelings and difficulties as its not manly.
@@MysteriousStranger08 Yea I've read the study. It's hugely important. What I found interesting was that it also applied to Black teachers. It's a great insight into what Back boys and men are dealing with. I said in another comment that these things are very much on my mind with regard to my son's. Unfortunately boys and Black boys particularly need to be aware of how others perceive them, and learn how to counteract that.
I’m African American in the US and the patterns are similar here as Caribbean in the UK. My brother copied my third grade report in the 80s (which is another story). He actually exchanged the cover and handed in my work. He received a B score, where two years earlier I received an A with the same teacher. While he was clearly wrong, it showed my mother the bias in how we were treated.
Race... both external and internal.
On average if a black boy's test results are rescored by a blind tester (not actually blind but someone who cant see the name and doesnt know the student) they are score 5% higher than when the teacher who does know them. With the amount of tests children go through in this country there is a cumulative effect not to mentioned the students morale.
We also internalise the racism, education is not for us, thats for white people, someone tries to educate themselves at school their is a fewling rhsy are trying to be white.
Of course there are multiple other factors but dven if not the most important they are certainly key issuea
@@paulhutchinson5608 Great comment. And you made me laugh with the "not actually blind" but!
You need to look at the jobs that Caribbean Men were employed and the African men's employment. It all comes down to society's employment needs and education.
GONNA DO A SHOW ON THIS NOW ON MY CHANNEL LOL
Great video, you have made some valid points, however all is not how it appears. I am aware of some senior white managers where I used to work who accidentally disclosed that they did not have a degree. (Those jobs required that you do )Some of the recruitment procedures / practices within some organisations are not always fair and equal as they appear to be. I would also want to know how many white managers have actual degrees and have gotten their management roles fairly because they had that degree.
I was put into a bottom set. Set 7 to be exact this was for DT where as english i was set 2 and maths 3 whilst in this glass i noticed it was generally people of colour im based in liverpool btw. My point being whilst reflecting. Ive realised your destiny can be shifted by people who dont like you
I’m sure many of the commenters have read ‘Natives’ by Akala but it’s well recommended for those that haven’t.
Interesting read. Whilst I’m no longer young I fall into the category where the expectancy was to achieve low due to multiple demographics (race, income, post code, nuclear family etc) I feel I did ok, yet spent 13 years working for a company and in couldn’t get an interview for internal roles for the next level up. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand if it’s your own shortcomings or how ‘society’ sees you. I’ve since moved roles, doing much more interesting work and earning over 50% more. Im also doing a lot of self study on Data Analysis so this must have hit my feed for multiple reasons 😆
@@AtelierDope I've read Natives. A good book from a good brother, definitely worth reading for an entry level discussion of a lot these issues. And that's great that TH-cam has brought you here likely because of your interes in data! I wish I'd have discovered my own interest in data years earlier. As I read all these data, I always get to a point where I can't go deeper as I lack the proper statistics training (regression analysis and whatnot)!
Surprised you didn't address why there's a complete reversal of fortunes for women in the other communities between educational attainment and job prospects.
Given that women are more educated, it's logical that they would have better job prospects.
Maybe those other communities are suffering from the issue of sexism.
@@fbaallied Yeah that's a huge subject. Will definitely return to that.
Or could the career breaks to have kids have an impact
@@GrimUpNorth_yt Yes, definitely.
University is not the only way to became successful,I hope you understand that , there are many business that were created not through people that were educated,also there are many careers were people makes a lot of moment without going to university.I know someone who has a construction company and he is making a lot of money,he never went to university.
"some kind of underclass"? According to the Social Metrics Commission (via IRR) half (46%) of all household where the head of household is black are living in poverty. Compared to 1 in 5 (19%) where the head of household is white.
is it possible to speak about the gender pay gap if were dont address the poverty? And the overall high levels of income inequality in the UK compared to the rest if Europe.
The gender pay gap causes the poverty. We all know women are the largest consumers and impulse buyers. They are the largest holders of debt as well. No wealth can be built on that, and capitalist corporations take advantage of this. If the priority was on hiring, promoting, retaining and paying well Black men OVER Black women, then the families would rise out of poverty over time. White and asian companies would lose a significant sector of suckers though, and their families would have to tighten their belts a bit.
They don't want to do that though. Black suffering and slow genocide is a price they'd love to pay for eurasian opulance and luxury (or just the abilty to have feed more of their own babies).
The pursuit of US Dollars weakens the Naira, whereas focusing on reparatory justice boosts Naira value.
The pursuit of US Dollars limits the Naira’s growth, while reparatory justice enhances Naira value.
The strengthening of the value of Black identity does not coincide with acquiring White European currencies, but reparatory justice increases IC3 Black significance.
Acquiring White European currencies conflicts with increasing the value of Black identity, but reparatory justice amplifies IC3 Black importance.
Few points
1) Yes the "Jamaican" culture in the UK has destroyed British Caribbean boys, no doubt
2) Africans in the UK, British born are doing better but not by much. If the African culture is so high on education why are top a level grades only above Caribbean's and travellers? Why behind Bengalis and Pakistanis let alone Indian and Chinese?
3) In terms of arrests, Caribbeans are highest with Africans second.
4) in terms of the top 20 foreign nationals imprisoned, 8 are sub Saharan African and two are Caribbean.
5) In terms of single mother homes, African rate is higher than all others besides Caribbean and that's despite having many Muslims and being recent immigrants with family structure intact.
Finally, look at kemi badenoch, she married a European man to progress. James cleverly is mixed with an African mother. Can it be argued that it is African women who are doing better and progressing further than the men? That former Welsh minister, he was mixed race with an African mother, can it be said that African mothers produce more successful children than the men>
@@BobJohsnon Some interesting points here, though I'm not sure how they relate to this video.
I don’t understand your comment ,isn’t the video literally saying that African man on average are making more then African women?
@@BobJohsnon The context of circumstances is important. In the 70s and 80s Africans came here to study themselves or had witnessed a the benefits of a British education and leading to to social mobility in their home country post independance. Or they were educated political refugees and or already middle east class in their own country so able to get navigate education and marry white people middle class more easily like Kemi B or the parents of the politicians you reference. But then since the 90s many Africans came in a more desperate situation who were not educated to a higher level just hussling to survive who did not have a higher level of education their sons had less stability and had outcomes similar to caribbean boys. Infact by the 00s Africans who became the majority of Black British working people class. So African boys now in similar circumstances to the their Caribbean and counterparts. So you will gave more African boys aspiring to music, sport and non unrelated hussle activities. But as I say it depends on circumstances and family and history.
A lot of points made here, you should at least provide sources
7:52 Easy, give the boys things that are specifically for them & are valued in the workplace market as well. For instance many of gen Y are turning towards traditional African Spirituality and culture. Some aspect of which is the ikenga, and ofo. These are instruments of power SPECIFICALLY for men. The ikenga being a man's generative power & work icon. Hence the knife and yam for the yam farmer career (common foundational job of society in the past).
Cut a yam, you can grow multiples > greater resources for sale to a wide consumer base consistently > gradual wealth accumulation. Its that simple. The principles we need to succeed are embedded in our culture, not the slave culture we got from europeans. There is no way to succeed with the latter and that is by design. Instead of ikenga boys are being given action figures of white men in spandex, bob the builder, or at best Black Panther. Which; unless they're gonna to join the SAS, they cannot become T'Challa. 😂
Interesting. And it’s interesting reading the comments that people are still finding ways to blame women for men’s choices. - the issue isn’t “single mums” the issue is ABSENT/INCONSISTENT fathers who most likely aren’t educated or earning as much as their counterparts anyway. But when a mother is using all her energy working hard to put food on the table, pay bills, school supplies, school clubs and raise the kids the best she can, she is often drained of energy or time to sit with the kids to help with homework or school. Girls are resilient and do better at school regardless. Boys - not so much. Some mothers can conjure up the energy especially if they have parents, siblings who help with the kids. But if she is alone with no village, and/or has additional health and mental health issues its harder to raise kids alone. Mothers are not super-beings. Theyre humans and still have the same needs as any other person. There is also a generational issue thats more than just single parent households. This issue stems from the children of the Windrush generation. Many black men had two parent homes yet were out of work as they became adults. Also Black African parents are newly immigrant relatively speaking - a lot of them come from higher status/middle class backgrounds too which plays a part.
@@Briars2018 For me, the state of our families are down to both men and women. I hate it when people want to blame one or the other. It takes both a male and a female to create a baby. They both have agency. But also, it's not just down to them. They should've been raised properly *before* they got to sexual maturity. The fact this doesn't happen for so many is down to their families, their communities and the wider societies.
@@elywananda I agree somewhat. But if only one parent is in the home - what else can she do?
when two people engage in activities that create children there needs to be consideration if things go wrong. But people lie and bullsxxi their way into pants. And not everyone is mentally healthy either.
But unfortunately, single parents aren’t created just because people were promiscuous or careless. A lot of single mothers (who make up over 90% of all single parents) were married and are single due to divorce. And it’s not a case of “courts favour mum” because statistically 4% of fathers fight for joint/sole custody and fathers who do, over 90% get some form of custody even if they have been abusive. I say this to illustrate that even marriage is not the answer either.
fundamentally, - a child can still grow up successfully *IF* there is a strong village around them and the parent(s). Child rearing takes A LOT of energy and money - one person cannot do it alone successfully if they are without both these things. Because even if a mother looks after the child well, who is looking after her? The mental health of parents can make or break a child.
@@elywananda… and yea I also agree that society - racism, Caribbean culture (we are much more laid back when it comes to professions), and toxic masculinity that drives gang violence, aggression, street life etc are things to blame. We need more youth groups and community orgs but due to those Tory cuts most of them couldn’t survive. And the ones that have survived (or even extra curricular activities in general) cost money which many single parents don’t often have - even less so now as things have gotten more expensive. - Village Support is the MOST important thing we need, imo.
@@Briars2018 I have nothing to add! You've laid out so much of the complexity around this issue! There are so many strands to it, and there are no simple solutions.
I agree with you 100%. So tired of them blaming single mothers and never acknowledging the absent fathers.
Black men are at the bottom with black women
Black women are at the very bottom below black men.
@@paulasammonagreed.... let's try to work together and elevate both BM & BW as a community
👍🏾
Being Nigerian it’s not a choice it’s part of what you do go to University and obtain a professional qualification. I am
a lawyer by trade and at Law School there were a handful of Carribean and almost half the year were of African heritage and the remainder white chinese and indian. That was 20 years ago so surely this must have changed since?
Where was this university? Woolwich loooool.
Once again, if all these africans are so educated why they earn less than caribbean women?
Come on there.
lt always comes down to family structure. I reckon you will see a lot more single parent carribbean households compared to african
No. Even married couples women often earn more which makes sense as women are more educated.
Is less about family structure but the encouragement for women to be educated and independent. Black women in the UK earn more than white women
@@apriljoy1094Black women in the UK earn more than white women because they're primarily concentrated in London, which pays more. I also believe (admittedly anecdotally) that a lower proportion of black women are stay at home mothers, which would also make a difference to comparative earnings. So family structure does play a part.
@@apriljoy1094 evidence/ sources?
I work with some African women, who are now single mothers, because the men who they married, dumped them after getting their British passport.
This info is only accurate for the specific data group used for the study.
Please retitle this video more accurately, it's black CARIBBEANS not blacks.
As the academic underachiecement effects White Carribean as well, would that not indicate it is more of a cultural issue as these statistics aren't as pronounced for those from the African diaspora?
I don’t think so. I think it indicates class. The African / UK diaspora was mainly originally educated or students. Caribbeans were mainly blue collar so this indicates the educational gap closing for women in the 2nd and third generation but not closing as much for Caribbean men.
@@apriljoy1094 That is an excellent point, I didn't think of that. The only counter I would offer is that the majority of Irish that arrived at a similar time would have been blue collar with a limited education too. Granted their role/ acceptance in British society has greatly changed over the last few decades.
No such thing as a white Caribbean.
Just like an African can never be British, and a european will always be european no matter where they were born.
3:24 - I have seen many qualified and educated BM but they are not chosen due to their lack of education…..
Please explain your comment, as you say you've seen "many qualified and educated BM" then how come they are not chosen "due to lack of education? What type of "education" are you referring to?
Why are so quick to challenge this? I really want to understand why?
@@SJ-tk6rm It's a valid question tbf.
I am such a qualified Black man and have education but have yet to be chosen. So even when one does their end; the racist society does not wish to change the status quo. It is this way because they want it this way and Black women collude with this. It's very unAfrican of them, and needs to be fixed.
@@kreativeforce532are u blaming racism for why u don’t have a good job? What is ur education?
Seems like you are leading toward cultural driven outcomes over racial or gender.
What do you mean sorry, could you expand a bit please?
I don't really see what the problem is here, Eli. If said group A has more educational attainment than group B, then it's logical that what follows (all things be fair, equal, and just) is that the group with the better educational attainment (group A) would see success and more of it in employment prospects.
The problem with this analysis is that it may be shrouded in sexism. Why should men in general, and Black Caribbean men specifically be doing better than their female counterparts (given that the stats presented show that women across ethnic and racial groups) outperform their male counterparts in education. However, unlike the Carribeans, all other groups show an inverse of fortunes for women for employment prospects. The ''glass ceiling'' is evident in those communities and as it appears, absent (good thing) in the Black Caribbean community.
Thanks for this. That's exactly the thing, whatever dynamics lead to the gender pay gap in the other ethnic groups, don't seem to apply to the Caribbean group. I'll certainly be coming back to this point in future.
My Indian ex is in finance, she was making £700/day 5 years ago.
My Nigerian ex is in law, she was making £13k/month 10 years ago.
I’m in software as a black African male, my boss pays the company I supply services through €39k/month.
Glass ceiling may be in play, but we also need to pay attention to the work and the industries.
I know black female directors and profit-sharing legal partners making millions.
The stats concern averages across all scenarios where many females are impacted by a prejudicial ceiling, time off work, the actual job being done.
Things are a bit more dynamic in the professional services industries than say at British Rail or Royal Mail.
Trailblazers are still working hard to kick open doors, make moves and create opportunities for those pushing behind us.
The effort isn’t made easy by an environment beset with horrible examples of behaviour by “our people” as well as stereotypes but we persist nonetheless to forge paths and set precedents.
Your assessment lacks nuance.
No one is disagreeing that the glass ceiling being absent is a good thing. There are clear factors that can be attributed to this discrepancy in metrics between bm and bw. DEI and other forms of legislative inclusions have yet to target the decline of bm pursuing education, let alone men in general. There is a growth of single parent (mother) households in which education is not highly emphasized to the son.
There is the stigma of having to assume the role of "man" in the house when a father is absent. This trope is prevalent in every form of media portrayal of black people. You see the son partake in illegal or criminal activities in order to provide some form of financial stability, rather than focusing on his education.
Education aside; women are out earning men due to higher education, but we live in a society in which physical labor is still required. The reality is it is impractical, logistically for the majority of men to pursue higher education to the same magnitude as women. Over time the earning potential of white-collar work has consistently increased, whereas blue collar workers are still fighting to be paid equally, even though both forms of work are equally important. Is it truly surprising that governments are not attempting to aid young boys in pursuing higher education? I believe this is why there has yet to be a global (western) movement in which education is emphasized to young boys. The educational system is feminized and offers little incentives to young boys to excel.
Your teachers are women, who subconsciously disregard the difference in learning styles between boys and girls. I believe this is by design, but I digress. There are too many factors at play affecting the discrepancy of wages between men and women. It is being observed on a larger scale between BM and BW due to lack of familial structure, hence you see it more prevalent in the Carribean black community, or African American community over the African community. I do believe that in the coming decades, more ethic groups will begin to shift towards women outearning and out educating men; the black community just happens to be the first of many.
Africans have a better culture of insisting their children get a high education. Not just a bachelors, but phd’s.
There’s also academic evidence that women get graded higher for the same work. So it’s partially cultural and partially systemic.
Hold on, show me the African top tier university outside of the ones built by arabs in egypt or the boers in South africa?
Show me the African research groups at cutting edge of medicine, technology.
If this education is so great, why african men earning less than caribbean women in the UK?
I'll wait.
@@BobJohsnoninstead of asking him to show you just go research it yourself.
What does girls being graded higher than boys have to do with anything. An A plus is an A plus. Getting lower grades than a girl doesnt mean you cant persue your education or enter manigerial roles.
Just wondering if this has anything to do with many of the male going into crime and not getting education.
So the nottingham attacker and the southport attackers, both are africans, didnt commit crime?
Dont make me laugh Oba
It's certainly related.
Kemi will be tory leader. Look at African women leading African men!
When African women marry Europeans they achieve!