My biggest note is… the tertiary characters. Some like Isha are great, but then you have Rictus (Ambessa’s right hand), Maddie, and Loris… Do you even know Loris is the big Enforcer within looking up the characters? I didn’t. Compare them to how well-defined Grayson, Milo and Claggor were in just Act One of Season One, to these guys who are there all of Season Two. And the way the big characters get split up more prominently to fill their respective storylines - Act Two having three big players gone, Vi sitting an entire episode after a time skip out (Episode 4… again) - it doesn’t feel like it flows. Feels like we needed either more Acts - one or two - or a Season Three alternately… The pace just didn’t stop enough and feels a bit rushed at times so we don’t simmer as much. Although at times it does slow down.
As a non-league of legends player, but a big fan of the 1st season, I really agree with your sentiments. Definitely felt the shift this season from character-driven to plot-driven storytelling. The animation, direction, and editing is still top notch, but this style of telling a story is not what drew me in to the first season
Pretty sure either Mylo or Claggor in S1 tell to Vi "he's our father too" when she's about to leave to rescue him solo. So they did see him as their father.
Another thing regarding Singed, his plot line for his daughter (not wife) already hinted at in s1, they planned his motive for s2, if you didn't catch those hints in s1 you might feel forced when they appeared in s2. You might try to revisit s1 to view both seasons as a whole story, not story 1 and story 1's follow up. It'll make Ambessa's whole story better too so you don't feel like she is a outside force dropping in last min, she is always a player in s1, even in early episode when Mel was talking about being poorest family member and being exiled.
It's his daughter, not his wife. Some of this stuff is because they are trying to build the lore from the ground up but incorporate stuff from the old lore. His daughter Oriana is a character from League, though her being Singed's daughter is new for Arcane. But it also plays into the continuance of the theme of the first season as defined by OSP. "The Unbreakable Bonds of Love, And why they Suck."
This show needed at least one more season. Season one was damn near perfect, but then season 2 jammed two or three seasons worth of story into nine episodes. Too much going on too quickly. And not having the relationship between Vi and Jinx as the driving force of the plot was a big downgrade.
Thank you for putting into words what I've been feeling. Like I like a good cliche if it's done well, but there are a lot in this season that feels very contrived. I wouldn't mind the Singed reveal if they did something with it, spoilers, they don't. And the Vander thing feels like a way to force the conflict to feel more emotional. And is it just me or does the Viktor/Jayce dynamic seem overly complicated? So it looks like an evil force is compelling Viktor to use magic to do evil things under the guise of doing good. Nope, just kidding, Viktor is in complete control and just wants to good, even at the cost of his own life. Okay, that's actually subverting my expectations in an interesting way, what's that about? Oh, well don't worry, Jayce is the one being compelled by a force to do something evil under the guise of wanting to do something good. And then with what's revealed in the next couple of episodes, christ. Why subvert expectations with one character to just do that exact thing to another one with no build up? It feels insane to me. And it's not like it's inherently bad, it's just worse than season 1. But weirdly that makes it feel even worse to me. Like knowing how good a show can be and see it fall short feels way worse than a show you have no expectations for being bad
This season is very dense. And it struggles to place all its plot points and characters effectively. I see a lot of reviewers struggle with understanding who is who, why is it here, as well. The mad thing is for almost everything there is a hint and explanation. Like we knew that Ambessa had an enemy outside of Piltover from the first season and this enemy killed her son, but it was one or two lines in dialogue in first season. So, creators expect us to not be surprised when Black Rose shows up. We knew that Singed has a daughter (he had a line "I had a daughter once" talking to Silco, when starting operating Jinx in first season), and that he experimented to preserve life (dragon he keeps to make shimmer), so creators expect us to understand that it is his daughter, when we see someone in that room. Even in this season, in the length of one episode - we see Maggie, big guy and lizard guy be brave and active in the memorial attacks, so seeing them being part of task force team in the end of episode, should be justifiable. But it is all so sparse and so brief, as a viewer you just don't pick it up when watching. And that's the storytelling issue. You can find all the hints on re-watching and even just looking at clips. But it should work on the initial viewing also. Still thoroughly enjoyed Season 2. But find it strange that I enjoy now watching clips from episodes more that watching whole season for the first time.
@@kibert135 The ending is mediocre though, and I was one of the ones defending the first act as 10/10 (which I still believe), but the last two episodes are just a betrayal of the themes of the whole series.
@oscarchavezavellan2738 i disagree. Arcane was always going to be about the Arcane and its consequences. And the ending where Piltover and Zaun are concerned is more realistic the way it turned out. Also Episode 7 did show the potential the cities still have.
@@kibert135 Great, would you like to chat it out? I will leave some of my complains with the finale (I have more, but these ones bug me the most)(SPOILERS obviously): First of all the entirety of season 1 was about the build up of the conflict of these two nations that are growing more and more separate from one another, the promises season 1 finale's make is to see the consequences of the final straw that broke the camel's back. Hextech was not good or bad on its own it was just a tool that could be corrupted by humans. This season scratches all of that, it uses hextech as the excuse to make the greater evil that they all have to put their differences aside to fight against, a trope tired and cliche. Now hextech is the cause of all their problems and most be destroyed, it corrupts Viktor and makes him do a 180 during multiple instances of the show (one moment he despises hextech, the other he thinks it's for good, the next he believes human emotions are bad and then the plot twist is that his future self considers that is not the case, no bridges in between he just get to one conclusion to the next immediately). The character assassination of Mel is just sad, went from a very interesting political influencer to someone who's only usefulness is to throw fireworks from her hands. Are the black rose stupid by the way? Why would they truly trust on a woman when they had just confessed to her that they killed her beloved brother? Viktor being a time traveler is pretty, but is comes off as a deux ex machina and it doesn't make any sense, so why did Jaycee try to kill his friend after having a conversation with a companionate and reasonable version of him? Because he was traumatized by what he saw that he didn't want to give him any opportunity to talk? Then why at then end he seemingly has no problem talking with him? What's more, it is framed as if it was all along the plan to talk to him. Zaun's problems are not addressed at all they are just given a representative at the council as if that is a good solution. Anyone who has some notion about politics knows that is just an asshole move to keep them under control with a false sense of legitimacy. What is ONE representative going to do when the rest still are from the top side? Any law or reform is going to be a matter of voting one against the rest, it is not a solution and it baffles me seeing what a good understanding of politics these writers showed in the previous season. There are some good stuff there too, vi's and powder's arcs if a little rushed had a good enough closure, not mind blowing but I have no major complains there, same thing with Ekko. Jaycee's and Viktor's ending is amazing in a vaccum ,but everything surroinding it is a mess. The dialogue during these episodes is still pretty great by the way, the dialogue is not the problem it is the writing of eveything else. Ultimately a betrayal of everything that was built the previous season, they took the coward's way out and chose to bring the trope of the greater evil that forces sides that are antagonized to work together. The problem is that this trope is done well when it is A PROBLEM, not a solution. The great threat that requires everyone to unite in order to defeat it is interesting when the problems of both sides ARE NOT ignored, it brings the question "will they be able to put their differences aside in time, is it even possible?". I can also get in into a political and sociological analysis as to why with the information and context the zaunites have it would be more realistic to ally themselves with noxus over an oppresor that has offered them already too many false promises and that only claims union and solidarity when it is convenient for them, the zaunites had no reason to believe anything was going to change if they helped out piltover. It most likely won't at the end of the day anyway, having a zaunite counciler won't do much for reason already explained.
My take is that they increased the pace to show the transition from a normal world to an over the top new reality where people become super-heroes as the Arcane spreads with hextech and shimmer having more and more influence on the way they fight. Some of the last few fights were more game-like in style, action effects and palette. It may have been rushed, but the key moments kept getting greater and greater.
I can see where you're coming from. I also felt like a bit too much was happening and it felt a bit rushed, at least after arc 2 (or, I was mostly hurt and frustrated). The beginning of arc 3 will explain some at least, and I do think they did pull it off (even if I ofc would have loved to have another season, or even three more episodes). I didn't expect it all to be resolved, but I think they did wrap it up pretty well.
I agree with your criticisms, but just for added context, a lot of the things you're saying about characters having forced motives, that's largely the writers fitting these characters to their league counterparts.
PART 3 SPOILERS: If they had just made 12 episode, or even 1 more, it would have let some of the bigger incidents breathe more. More fascism Kait, more time with Vandwick, more stuff with Mel after she left the Black Rose, let Ekko TALK TO SOMEONE IN HIS HOME TIMELINE
I agree, S2 seemed mostly trying to crowbar the development of the characters developed in S1 into the fully formed LoL characters - if they hadn't limited themselves to two seasons and gone for three instead they could have stretched out the S2 storylines into a more natural development
As someone who has gone thru many phases of no contact/low contact, I bought them coming together. There is a reason why there's the trope of "we only see each other at weddings and funerals" weddings go first. Funerals/deaths are the thing that ppl break no contact for. How they behave after he is gone is really gonna be the delicate part. I am upset about the kid. Them being nonverbal is the kicker for me. Nonverbal kids tend to get killed more often. Jace was very confusing. Victor was a little rushed, but Jace jumped so much that they better have a ton of flashbacks to explain what he was doing in between, bc his motivation are not there AT ALL. I have hope that Mel's mystery and Jace's mystery will make sense in the end and may even be connected in some way. Mel's is entertaining and I'm excited to see a black woman get a chosen one narrative
I get that this season 2 is not as good as the first, but I loved it anyways so I don't care. I will overanalyse the show, I will watch people overanalyse it even more on youtube and elsewhere, and I will be nitpicking. But that will come later, because even if it's less good, it's still very, very good.
About Singed's dauther, I actually really like this reveal, because it universifies the show's themes. People do shit because of love, love can make people be noble and hopeful, or destructive and hateful. And even someone as crappy as Singed, loves someone, and acts based on it. A bit heavy-handed, maybe, but cool nonetheless.
i had issues with the pacing and directors choices that made things not hit as much, episode 4 i was basically disengaged and bored the entire time and the end of the episode didnt fix it for me, i was already disinterested by the rest of the episode by then. episode 5 was better and 6 i was pretty engaged again. no spoilers, i will tell you waht you had wrong when you upload 7-9 reactions since i already forgot what was in what episode. and dont want to accidentally spoil your 7-9, with things in case you havnt watched those by the time you upload this. i liked 1-3 and 8 and 9, 7 was nice too. i was questioning if they had changed directors or writers, becasue of the pacing difference and issues i had with episode 4. knowing character lore from being a nerd and reading the stories of every character back when i was playing league of legends 15 years ago really helped with episode 4-6. also helped with a trigger warning i needed for episode 9, since i expected the story beat to happen from knowing the backstory. i will be patiently waiting for your 7-9 reactions
I think Arcane S2 is amazing, and I agree with you. Normally I'm a sucker for the grandiose lore and large intrigue stuff, but what Arcane S1 excelled at was the characters and their interaction on the smaller scale. So in any other show (or this one with more time) I would have loved the Black Rose-stuff with Mel, but here, when there's only two seasons, I feel like they could have gone another way which would allow more time for the other story lines (e.g. develop Isha more). Of course this would require some major rewrites, and I don't know the end result would be better, but as it is, it feels kinda forced. I still love it and have seen act two 5 times thus far... I don't have a problem and can quit whenever I like, it's just so good...
That’s all valid. IIRC this was all foreshadowed, but I feel the hand of the author is more noticeable because the season is rushed. This should have been 12 episodes for room to breathe and better connective tissue. But considering all that I’m still loving it so far. Looking forward to the final three episodes tonight!
"This feels like they knew where they wanted these characters to end up and they came up with scenarios that would force them to be in those places". Yes, literally, exactly, yes. This is what they did. Its an adaption of game with existing lore and they have to on some level respect that and the players of the game and where they know these characters ends up, so they did sort of on some level have to work backwards and make scenarios to lead the characters to pre-determined places.
I think the concern would be is this drawing things out too much but I honestly think act 2 should have been the final act, and introduce another act between that fleshes out authoritarian cait and her relationship with ambessa and also show more of what cait is actually doing to zaun and also show more of jinx becoming a symbol and more of her relationship with isha as well as show more of emo vi and give loris more characterization. The comparison of isha with silco is something I was thinking about too and how much each person influences jinx in a positive or negative way, so I feel like they should have really pulled at that thread more and treated isha's death the way silco's death was and really explore the different ways Jinx grieves. They could have spent an entire 3rd season on the aftermath of Isha and vander's deaths and how it affects Jinx and Vi and their relationship, and they probably wouldn't even need a whole other season to do that effectively so they could then spend the rest of season 3 resolving the other plot threads they have going on.
I think the overall sentiment has been that season 2 was great but rushed. Like it's still quality television, but like you said, it's just not on par with season 1. To me season 2 was flawed and beautiful at the same time.
OMG, the Mr. Freeze like device ain't his wife but his daughter. Just as a note. ^^; (because I got a mental image of the character and I really don't want her to be his wife XD) Otherwise I think the points are very reasonable. Especially the brief revival of Vander and the speed running of the reconcilation of Vi and Jinx. Same for the whole thing of Caitlyn going full dictator to turning around on a dime when bumping into Vi ^^; I felt for Jayce they really tried to make him seem unreasonable, at the detriment, imho, of the storytelling. I am curious how you will like the third act :) I still really like act 2.
Regarding Vander, he is always meant to be back in s2 as both seasons' story is overall planned before making. S2's story is not made after the fact of S1's story. They dropped a lot of bits about him being back in s1 too. So no actually it's not forced, you can say it's convenient, but they didn't just invent that plot line after s1.
I'm not accusing them of making it up after the first season, I'm saying how it feels watching it. It's not the same. I made no implications about the actual creation process.
@BreakRoomofGeeks Again I think viewing them together would make you understand better about the whole picture. For example, Singed wanted to bring his daughter back, and because of how unethical he is, of course he would want to experiment on the dying Vander who showed that shimmer had much better effects on him than Deckard, shimmer also bought him back from death momentarily, so it's natural he would think he is a perfect subject to do ''bring people back from death'' literally. He is just reacting to the things happened to him. I would say Jinx getting a kid out of nowhere is more plot device thingy than most of the things you mentioned.
@@GipJo were you already familiar with the game before? Because a lot of your “of course singed would do so and so” arguments really doesn’t easily follow from a show only perspective of the 1st season. Even with the explanation given in the second season, making a vicious werewolf monster (that apparently only worked because vander is special) does not seem like an obvious or predictable step for finding a cure for his daughter
@@jonathanmares9417 He first tested on Rio the cute animal, that's why he said mutation must survive, his plot is always about denying death, even his help for Viktor is about denying death too. We just don't know exactly what it is for because he didn't say it straight, but the mention of parting ways with Heimer and daughter and the locket, all of those are mentioned and hinted at in s1. Him creating a werewolf isn't at all important in that context, it could be anything really, if the show gives an explanation to how ''this wolf is a magical creature, it has very quick regeneration ability, combining it with a human, it can make them almost immortal'', then it would feel very bland to put such dialogues between Singed and Ambessa to tell audiences that, even though I think most shows probably would opt to do it this way. But if you treat Singed like a smart person he is, you wouldn't unable to understand how that works, because he isn't just gonna do things without logical reasons. This show biggest ''flaw'' imo is ask too much about audience, the subcontexts are hard to catch and connect, even I have to watch some scenes over and over to catch the details. But I appreciate a show like this, you don't get such shows anywhere else.
@@GipJo "Him creating a werewolf isn't at all important in that context, it could be anything really" Exactly the point! Given his experiments in the first season, the follow on experiments could have been basically anything. In other words, they do not "hint" at using Vander's corpse for resurrection experiments (let alone through creating a werewolf monster out of Vander's corpse) in any specific way whatsoever. Would anyone have predicted anything close to that given just the information in the 1st season? Does it feel like a natural or necessary follow up? That's what makes Vander's werewolf monster inclusion as a pivotal aspect of Vi and Jinx's reconnection feel contrived for some of us. It seems tailor made specifically for it's function in the Vi/Jinx storyline, but incredibly happenstance from the perspective of Singe's storyline
Season 2 Act 2 is definitely the weak link of the series. I agree with your points and like the solution Merphy Napier came up with where we really could have used another 15 minutes per episode and potentially 2-3 more episodes overall to really let the plot lines and characters breathe and better tie the events to character actions and motivations instead of being pulled along by plot. Season 2 tries to do too much in only nine 45 minute episodes. Either trim some of the plots or give the plots more room to flex.
If you'd like some other information about the series, the original plan was to make it 5 seasons long, but they wanted to focus on giving time to other stories from the League of Legends Universe. They also didn't want to fail where many other series have and make it too long and end on a low point.
They also confirmed that the pivot to doing 2 seasons was to finish the story without Netflix axing it for no reason. Because right near the end of production of S1 was when Netflix started their trend of cancelling even very successful shows for seemingly no reason, and they didn't want to risk that happening to this project that's been planned since 2014.
From everything I've been able to find. Arcane was always written to be two seasons. supposedly. And I quote, "The confusion is because internally there was a budget conversation about “approving 5 seasons” - which simply means we were setting aside a bunch of money for lots of development and is completely irrelevant to the Arcane creative." They have said that the writers always planned to have 2 seasons. Now that does not mean I think season 2 didn't feel rushed, or awkward. I would not be surprised in the least if a lot got re-written last minute. But that is the official word on the whole 5 seasons bit.
I do feel this season was rushed, but I think the main problem is the insertion of Noxus as an important plot point. I believe they're there solely for the sake of setting up the next series and are mostly irrelevant in the show. They play a role, but I feel it was redundant.
This season had too much going on and nothing was fleshed out. I watched it with a friend that knows much more about the show than me and neither of us could figure out what was happening for most of it. Character motivations danced about randomly and I didn't have an emotional connection to pretty much anything. The show was very pretty but pretty doesn't cut it.
I think you need to rewatch the whole thing, both seasons, again. Preferably twice. You've missed a lot of stuff. For instance, the dead girl in the "Mr Freeze" thing is not Singed's wife, it's his daughter. And that's just one detail you've missed. The details are important to the storytelling in this series, so if you miss a bunch of them, you're left with an incomplete picture.
yeah she was a HUGE part of this act of the show and was like entirely unmentioned. kind off. maybe Vera will comment on the Isha stuff in the arc three review.
First 3 episodes were good but no where near as good as season 1. The 2nd act was actually worse but the final 3... OMG so bad game of thrones final seasons territory
Arcane Season 1 didn't feel the need to shoehorn in stuff from League of Legends. The stuff shoved into Season 2 of Arcane, is stuff shoved in from League Lore.
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I think the main problem is how rushed everything is. Stuff like Singed having a daughter and Vander being the beast were foreshadowed in Season 1.
My biggest note is… the tertiary characters. Some like Isha are great, but then you have Rictus (Ambessa’s right hand), Maddie, and Loris… Do you even know Loris is the big Enforcer within looking up the characters? I didn’t.
Compare them to how well-defined Grayson, Milo and Claggor were in just Act One of Season One, to these guys who are there all of Season Two. And the way the big characters get split up more prominently to fill their respective storylines - Act Two having three big players gone, Vi sitting an entire episode after a time skip out (Episode 4… again) - it doesn’t feel like it flows.
Feels like we needed either more Acts - one or two - or a Season Three alternately… The pace just didn’t stop enough and feels a bit rushed at times so we don’t simmer as much. Although at times it does slow down.
As a non-league of legends player, but a big fan of the 1st season, I really agree with your sentiments. Definitely felt the shift this season from character-driven to plot-driven storytelling. The animation, direction, and editing is still top notch, but this style of telling a story is not what drew me in to the first season
Pretty sure either Mylo or Claggor in S1 tell to Vi "he's our father too" when she's about to leave to rescue him solo.
So they did see him as their father.
Another thing regarding Singed, his plot line for his daughter (not wife) already hinted at in s1, they planned his motive for s2, if you didn't catch those hints in s1 you might feel forced when they appeared in s2. You might try to revisit s1 to view both seasons as a whole story, not story 1 and story 1's follow up. It'll make Ambessa's whole story better too so you don't feel like she is a outside force dropping in last min, she is always a player in s1, even in early episode when Mel was talking about being poorest family member and being exiled.
It's his daughter, not his wife. Some of this stuff is because they are trying to build the lore from the ground up but incorporate stuff from the old lore. His daughter Oriana is a character from League, though her being Singed's daughter is new for Arcane.
But it also plays into the continuance of the theme of the first season as defined by OSP. "The Unbreakable Bonds of Love, And why they Suck."
This show needed at least one more season. Season one was damn near perfect, but then season 2 jammed two or three seasons worth of story into nine episodes. Too much going on too quickly. And not having the relationship between Vi and Jinx as the driving force of the plot was a big downgrade.
Thank you for putting into words what I've been feeling. Like I like a good cliche if it's done well, but there are a lot in this season that feels very contrived. I wouldn't mind the Singed reveal if they did something with it, spoilers, they don't. And the Vander thing feels like a way to force the conflict to feel more emotional.
And is it just me or does the Viktor/Jayce dynamic seem overly complicated? So it looks like an evil force is compelling Viktor to use magic to do evil things under the guise of doing good. Nope, just kidding, Viktor is in complete control and just wants to good, even at the cost of his own life. Okay, that's actually subverting my expectations in an interesting way, what's that about? Oh, well don't worry, Jayce is the one being compelled by a force to do something evil under the guise of wanting to do something good. And then with what's revealed in the next couple of episodes, christ.
Why subvert expectations with one character to just do that exact thing to another one with no build up? It feels insane to me. And it's not like it's inherently bad, it's just worse than season 1. But weirdly that makes it feel even worse to me. Like knowing how good a show can be and see it fall short feels way worse than a show you have no expectations for being bad
This season is very dense. And it struggles to place all its plot points and characters effectively. I see a lot of reviewers struggle with understanding who is who, why is it here, as well. The mad thing is for almost everything there is a hint and explanation.
Like we knew that Ambessa had an enemy outside of Piltover from the first season and this enemy killed her son, but it was one or two lines in dialogue in first season. So, creators expect us to not be surprised when Black Rose shows up.
We knew that Singed has a daughter (he had a line "I had a daughter once" talking to Silco, when starting operating Jinx in first season), and that he experimented to preserve life (dragon he keeps to make shimmer), so creators expect us to understand that it is his daughter, when we see someone in that room. Even in this season, in the length of one episode - we see Maggie, big guy and lizard guy be brave and active in the memorial attacks, so seeing them being part of task force team in the end of episode, should be justifiable.
But it is all so sparse and so brief, as a viewer you just don't pick it up when watching. And that's the storytelling issue. You can find all the hints on re-watching and even just looking at clips. But it should work on the initial viewing also.
Still thoroughly enjoyed Season 2. But find it strange that I enjoy now watching clips from episodes more that watching whole season for the first time.
This was 2 or 3 full seasons of story crammed into 9 episodes. It was strange.
The weird thing is that it still works. Not as well as it could have if we actually got more seasons, but this story is not bad because it is rushed.
@@kibert135 The ending is mediocre though, and I was one of the ones defending the first act as 10/10 (which I still believe), but the last two episodes are just a betrayal of the themes of the whole series.
@oscarchavezavellan2738 i disagree. Arcane was always going to be about the Arcane and its consequences. And the ending where Piltover and Zaun are concerned is more realistic the way it turned out. Also Episode 7 did show the potential the cities still have.
@@kibert135 Great, would you like to chat it out? I will leave some of my complains with the finale (I have more, but these ones bug me the most)(SPOILERS obviously): First of all the entirety of season 1 was about the build up of the conflict of these two nations that are growing more and more separate from one another, the promises season 1 finale's make is to see the consequences of the final straw that broke the camel's back. Hextech was not good or bad on its own it was just a tool that could be corrupted by humans. This season scratches all of that, it uses hextech as the excuse to make the greater evil that they all have to put their differences aside to fight against, a trope tired and cliche. Now hextech is the cause of all their problems and most be destroyed, it corrupts Viktor and makes him do a 180 during multiple instances of the show (one moment he despises hextech, the other he thinks it's for good, the next he believes human emotions are bad and then the plot twist is that his future self considers that is not the case, no bridges in between he just get to one conclusion to the next immediately). The character assassination of Mel is just sad, went from a very interesting political influencer to someone who's only usefulness is to throw fireworks from her hands. Are the black rose stupid by the way? Why would they truly trust on a woman when they had just confessed to her that they killed her beloved brother? Viktor being a time traveler is pretty, but is comes off as a deux ex machina and it doesn't make any sense, so why did Jaycee try to kill his friend after having a conversation with a companionate and reasonable version of him? Because he was traumatized by what he saw that he didn't want to give him any opportunity to talk? Then why at then end he seemingly has no problem talking with him? What's more, it is framed as if it was all along the plan to talk to him. Zaun's problems are not addressed at all they are just given a representative at the council as if that is a good solution. Anyone who has some notion about politics knows that is just an asshole move to keep them under control with a false sense of legitimacy. What is ONE representative going to do when the rest still are from the top side? Any law or reform is going to be a matter of voting one against the rest, it is not a solution and it baffles me seeing what a good understanding of politics these writers showed in the previous season.
There are some good stuff there too, vi's and powder's arcs if a little rushed had a good enough closure, not mind blowing but I have no major complains there, same thing with Ekko. Jaycee's and Viktor's ending is amazing in a vaccum ,but everything surroinding it is a mess. The dialogue during these episodes is still pretty great by the way, the dialogue is not the problem it is the writing of eveything else.
Ultimately a betrayal of everything that was built the previous season, they took the coward's way out and chose to bring the trope of the greater evil that forces sides that are antagonized to work together. The problem is that this trope is done well when it is A PROBLEM, not a solution. The great threat that requires everyone to unite in order to defeat it is interesting when the problems of both sides ARE NOT ignored, it brings the question "will they be able to put their differences aside in time, is it even possible?". I can also get in into a political and sociological analysis as to why with the information and context the zaunites have it would be more realistic to ally themselves with noxus over an oppresor that has offered them already too many false promises and that only claims union and solidarity when it is convenient for them, the zaunites had no reason to believe anything was going to change if they helped out piltover. It most likely won't at the end of the day anyway, having a zaunite counciler won't do much for reason already explained.
My take is that they increased the pace to show the transition from a normal world to an over the top new reality where people become super-heroes as the Arcane spreads with hextech and shimmer having more and more influence on the way they fight.
Some of the last few fights were more game-like in style, action effects and palette.
It may have been rushed, but the key moments kept getting greater and greater.
I can see where you're coming from. I also felt like a bit too much was happening and it felt a bit rushed, at least after arc 2 (or, I was mostly hurt and frustrated). The beginning of arc 3 will explain some at least, and I do think they did pull it off (even if I ofc would have loved to have another season, or even three more episodes). I didn't expect it all to be resolved, but I think they did wrap it up pretty well.
I agree with your criticisms, but just for added context, a lot of the things you're saying about characters having forced motives, that's largely the writers fitting these characters to their league counterparts.
PART 3 SPOILERS:
If they had just made 12 episode, or even 1 more, it would have let some of the bigger incidents breathe more. More fascism Kait, more time with Vandwick, more stuff with Mel after she left the Black Rose, let Ekko TALK TO SOMEONE IN HIS HOME TIMELINE
I agree, S2 seemed mostly trying to crowbar the development of the characters developed in S1 into the fully formed LoL characters - if they hadn't limited themselves to two seasons and gone for three instead they could have stretched out the S2 storylines into a more natural development
As someone who has gone thru many phases of no contact/low contact, I bought them coming together. There is a reason why there's the trope of "we only see each other at weddings and funerals" weddings go first. Funerals/deaths are the thing that ppl break no contact for. How they behave after he is gone is really gonna be the delicate part.
I am upset about the kid. Them being nonverbal is the kicker for me. Nonverbal kids tend to get killed more often.
Jace was very confusing. Victor was a little rushed, but Jace jumped so much that they better have a ton of flashbacks to explain what he was doing in between, bc his motivation are not there AT ALL.
I have hope that Mel's mystery and Jace's mystery will make sense in the end and may even be connected in some way. Mel's is entertaining and I'm excited to see a black woman get a chosen one narrative
I get that this season 2 is not as good as the first, but I loved it anyways so I don't care. I will overanalyse the show, I will watch people overanalyse it even more on youtube and elsewhere, and I will be nitpicking. But that will come later, because even if it's less good, it's still very, very good.
Can't wait for your thoughts on Part 3... Cuz I have thoughts. Lots o' thoughts.
About Singed's dauther, I actually really like this reveal, because it universifies the show's themes. People do shit because of love, love can make people be noble and hopeful, or destructive and hateful. And even someone as crappy as Singed, loves someone, and acts based on it. A bit heavy-handed, maybe, but cool nonetheless.
i had issues with the pacing and directors choices that made things not hit as much, episode 4 i was basically disengaged and bored the entire time and the end of the episode didnt fix it for me, i was already disinterested by the rest of the episode by then. episode 5 was better and 6 i was pretty engaged again.
no spoilers, i will tell you waht you had wrong when you upload 7-9 reactions since i already forgot what was in what episode. and dont want to accidentally spoil your 7-9, with things in case you havnt watched those by the time you upload this.
i liked 1-3 and 8 and 9, 7 was nice too.
i was questioning if they had changed directors or writers, becasue of the pacing difference and issues i had with episode 4. knowing character lore from being a nerd and reading the stories of every character back when i was playing league of legends 15 years ago really helped with episode 4-6. also helped with a trigger warning i needed for episode 9, since i expected the story beat to happen from knowing the backstory.
i will be patiently waiting for your 7-9 reactions
I think Arcane S2 is amazing, and I agree with you. Normally I'm a sucker for the grandiose lore and large intrigue stuff, but what Arcane S1 excelled at was the characters and their interaction on the smaller scale. So in any other show (or this one with more time) I would have loved the Black Rose-stuff with Mel, but here, when there's only two seasons, I feel like they could have gone another way which would allow more time for the other story lines (e.g. develop Isha more). Of course this would require some major rewrites, and I don't know the end result would be better, but as it is, it feels kinda forced.
I still love it and have seen act two 5 times thus far... I don't have a problem and can quit whenever I like, it's just so good...
I was also nervous going into the final 3 eps and wonder what you will think of the final 3
Hope you will like the finale!
That’s all valid. IIRC this was all foreshadowed, but I feel the hand of the author is more noticeable because the season is rushed. This should have been 12 episodes for room to breathe and better connective tissue. But considering all that I’m still loving it so far. Looking forward to the final three episodes tonight!
"This feels like they knew where they wanted these characters to end up and they came up with scenarios that would force them to be in those places". Yes, literally, exactly, yes. This is what they did. Its an adaption of game with existing lore and they have to on some level respect that and the players of the game and where they know these characters ends up, so they did sort of on some level have to work backwards and make scenarios to lead the characters to pre-determined places.
I think the concern would be is this drawing things out too much but I honestly think act 2 should have been the final act, and introduce another act between that fleshes out authoritarian cait and her relationship with ambessa and also show more of what cait is actually doing to zaun and also show more of jinx becoming a symbol and more of her relationship with isha as well as show more of emo vi and give loris more characterization. The comparison of isha with silco is something I was thinking about too and how much each person influences jinx in a positive or negative way, so I feel like they should have really pulled at that thread more and treated isha's death the way silco's death was and really explore the different ways Jinx grieves. They could have spent an entire 3rd season on the aftermath of Isha and vander's deaths and how it affects Jinx and Vi and their relationship, and they probably wouldn't even need a whole other season to do that effectively so they could then spend the rest of season 3 resolving the other plot threads they have going on.
I think the overall sentiment has been that season 2 was great but rushed. Like it's still quality television, but like you said, it's just not on par with season 1. To me season 2 was flawed and beautiful at the same time.
OMG, the Mr. Freeze like device ain't his wife but his daughter. Just as a note. ^^;
(because I got a mental image of the character and I really don't want her to be his wife XD)
Otherwise I think the points are very reasonable. Especially the brief revival of Vander and the speed running of the reconcilation of Vi and Jinx. Same for the whole thing of Caitlyn going full dictator to turning around on a dime when bumping into Vi ^^;
I felt for Jayce they really tried to make him seem unreasonable, at the detriment, imho, of the storytelling.
I am curious how you will like the third act :)
I still really like act 2.
JUSTICE FOR VANDER
Re: jayce "....i feel like we skipped..." Well, we did 😂😂😂
Regarding Vander, he is always meant to be back in s2 as both seasons' story is overall planned before making. S2's story is not made after the fact of S1's story. They dropped a lot of bits about him being back in s1 too. So no actually it's not forced, you can say it's convenient, but they didn't just invent that plot line after s1.
I'm not accusing them of making it up after the first season, I'm saying how it feels watching it. It's not the same. I made no implications about the actual creation process.
@BreakRoomofGeeks Again I think viewing them together would make you understand better about the whole picture. For example, Singed wanted to bring his daughter back, and because of how unethical he is, of course he would want to experiment on the dying Vander who showed that shimmer had much better effects on him than Deckard, shimmer also bought him back from death momentarily, so it's natural he would think he is a perfect subject to do ''bring people back from death'' literally. He is just reacting to the things happened to him. I would say Jinx getting a kid out of nowhere is more plot device thingy than most of the things you mentioned.
@@GipJo were you already familiar with the game before? Because a lot of your “of course singed would do so and so” arguments really doesn’t easily follow from a show only perspective of the 1st season. Even with the explanation given in the second season, making a vicious werewolf monster (that apparently only worked because vander is special) does not seem like an obvious or predictable step for finding a cure for his daughter
@@jonathanmares9417 He first tested on Rio the cute animal, that's why he said mutation must survive, his plot is always about denying death, even his help for Viktor is about denying death too. We just don't know exactly what it is for because he didn't say it straight, but the mention of parting ways with Heimer and daughter and the locket, all of those are mentioned and hinted at in s1. Him creating a werewolf isn't at all important in that context, it could be anything really, if the show gives an explanation to how ''this wolf is a magical creature, it has very quick regeneration ability, combining it with a human, it can make them almost immortal'', then it would feel very bland to put such dialogues between Singed and Ambessa to tell audiences that, even though I think most shows probably would opt to do it this way. But if you treat Singed like a smart person he is, you wouldn't unable to understand how that works, because he isn't just gonna do things without logical reasons. This show biggest ''flaw'' imo is ask too much about audience, the subcontexts are hard to catch and connect, even I have to watch some scenes over and over to catch the details. But I appreciate a show like this, you don't get such shows anywhere else.
@@GipJo "Him creating a werewolf isn't at all important in that context, it could be anything really"
Exactly the point! Given his experiments in the first season, the follow on experiments could have been basically anything.
In other words, they do not "hint" at using Vander's corpse for resurrection experiments (let alone through creating a werewolf monster out of Vander's corpse) in any specific way whatsoever.
Would anyone have predicted anything close to that given just the information in the 1st season? Does it feel like a natural or necessary follow up?
That's what makes Vander's werewolf monster inclusion as a pivotal aspect of Vi and Jinx's reconnection feel contrived for some of us.
It seems tailor made specifically for it's function in the Vi/Jinx storyline, but incredibly happenstance from the perspective of Singe's storyline
Season 2 Act 2 is definitely the weak link of the series. I agree with your points and like the solution Merphy Napier came up with where we really could have used another 15 minutes per episode and potentially 2-3 more episodes overall to really let the plot lines and characters breathe and better tie the events to character actions and motivations instead of being pulled along by plot. Season 2 tries to do too much in only nine 45 minute episodes. Either trim some of the plots or give the plots more room to flex.
If you'd like some other information about the series, the original plan was to make it 5 seasons long, but they wanted to focus on giving time to other stories from the League of Legends Universe. They also didn't want to fail where many other series have and make it too long and end on a low point.
They also confirmed that the pivot to doing 2 seasons was to finish the story without Netflix axing it for no reason. Because right near the end of production of S1 was when Netflix started their trend of cancelling even very successful shows for seemingly no reason, and they didn't want to risk that happening to this project that's been planned since 2014.
From everything I've been able to find. Arcane was always written to be two seasons. supposedly. And I quote,
"The confusion is because internally there was a budget conversation about “approving 5 seasons” - which simply means we were setting aside a bunch of money for lots of development and is completely irrelevant to the Arcane creative."
They have said that the writers always planned to have 2 seasons.
Now that does not mean I think season 2 didn't feel rushed, or awkward. I would not be surprised in the least if a lot got re-written last minute. But that is the official word on the whole 5 seasons bit.
I do feel this season was rushed, but I think the main problem is the insertion of Noxus as an important plot point. I believe they're there solely for the sake of setting up the next series and are mostly irrelevant in the show. They play a role, but I feel it was redundant.
This season had too much going on and nothing was fleshed out. I watched it with a friend that knows much more about the show than me and neither of us could figure out what was happening for most of it. Character motivations danced about randomly and I didn't have an emotional connection to pretty much anything.
The show was very pretty but pretty doesn't cut it.
Engagement for the engagement god!
I think you need to rewatch the whole thing, both seasons, again. Preferably twice. You've missed a lot of stuff.
For instance, the dead girl in the "Mr Freeze" thing is not Singed's wife, it's his daughter.
And that's just one detail you've missed. The details are important to the storytelling in this series, so if you miss a bunch of them, you're left with an incomplete picture.
I'll wait for your review of the third part. Still, commenting for the algorithm.
I am somewhat confused you didnt really touch on isha :0
yeah she was a HUGE part of this act of the show and was like entirely unmentioned. kind off. maybe Vera will comment on the Isha stuff in the arc three review.
Hi, dread algorithm lords of chaos. Happy Turkey Day (Thursday)!
I was completely lost regarding the Mel and Black Rose plot
First 3 episodes were good but no where near as good as season 1. The 2nd act was actually worse but the final 3... OMG so bad game of thrones final seasons territory
Arcane Season 1 didn't feel the need to shoehorn in stuff from League of Legends. The stuff shoved into Season 2 of Arcane, is stuff shoved in from League Lore.