I just finished this book after reading about 1/3 and putting it down for a few weeks. I like Kushner's other novels very much (The Mars Room, The Flamethrowers), and was initially a bit uncertain about this one. I've watched a number of videos of Ms Kushner discussing the book, and I got a different perspective from hearing her speak. She's a bit of a character herself, and is very funny and sort of free-wheeling in her conversational manner. I ended up liking the book very much, perhaps not as much as The Mars room, but I am incredibly impressed with the breadth and depth of her knowledge and erudition, as well as the gravity of her philosophical thought.
Your mention of Sadie, looking at the night sky made me think of this lyric from Billy Bragg’s A New England: “I saw two shooting stars last night I wished on them, but they were only satellites It's wrong to wish on space hardware I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care.”
Yes. It lacked a thematic center. Yes the end fizzled out. yet. She gave us this Sadie Smith character. Who I'll always equate with Becky Sharpe, Lady Eustace, etc., in my head. I wouldn't be mad if it won. But I'm still kinda rooting for James.
You have the best 'traumatised by a book' face I've ever seen! Creation Lake was pretty much exactly what I expected. It's great writing, and no redeemable characters whatsoever!
The dispute over the megabasin, the way that women were treated in the commune, the defeat of the Neanderthals by the Homo sapiens, the marginalization of the Cagots….I thought all these pointed to man’s domination and subjugation of others, with capitalism being a prime example. And the cynicism readers note in the novel is personified by the powerful men in the story claiming to believe in one thing and actually doing the opposite, purely for personal wealth and power.
I felt for you here trying to tie down this very unusual book, like your book club member I am still not sure what the main message of the book is but I quite agree that it probably does not matter. I thoroughly enjoyed this novel despite being slightly mystified by it, by the end and after some reflection I felt it well deserved its place on the Booker list as it is so unusual and really quite unique. I also felt despite some quite dark undertones it was frequently quite witty, the comment about the age of the French man and position of his belt was one that bought a smile to my face too as it is quite a truism! Thanks for the review.
Enjoy your reviews very much! I was intrigued by much of this novel but mystified also. You have probably read the blistering review by Brandon Taylor in the London Review of Books. A very flattering review appeared in the September 19 issue of the New York Review of Books. I guess I am somewhere in between. For the first time I have read all,of the Booker shortlist. If I was to ranked them I would place James as my favorite. A close second would be The Safekeep! In third place would be Creation Lake. But I’m very mixed on that novel. I guess I would place Stone Yard Devotional in fourth place. Wasn’t as impressed by it as you were though. Orbital would be my number five pick. And Held would be a distant sixth.
I think the publisher did this book a real disservice by marketing it as a thriller. I did like the book, but I really had to take a minute to adjust my expectations. I found it more comic than thrilling, really. Sadie was such an idiot and I laughed at her throughout. I've been pondering how this book shifts in meaning if perhaps Sadie is viewed as an unreliable narrator, which she almost certainly was. There's a lot to ponder in this book, and that's why I loved it.
I was one of the book club readers who felt the point of this book was a bit unclear with the two halves not quite coming together for me. I felt it was a bit Emperors New Clothes and I was trying to see something that wasn't there.
About what you said about Sadie enjoying having the upper hand in situations: I went to an event with Rachel Kushner this week and she said that Sadie likes to think she’s in a French film noir movie, but she isn’t of course 😂.
I particularly liked the character of Bruno, who voluntarily underwent two weeks in the total dark in a cave. I think Bruno turns out to be the hero of the book, though thru most of the book he's kind of a laughing stock. What turns it for me is the narrator goes off by herself at the end of the book, and reminisces that it might or might not have been Bruno whom she saw that day by the body of water. Of all the things that happened, it's Bruno who occupies her thoughts.
Hi Eric, I’m listening to Creation Lake and I’m experiencing it as satire?? Am I reading it wrong? I was watching Who Do You Think You Are on BBC iPlayer. It was the episode with Olly Muirs. I was thinking of you as his father’s family came from Latina.
Im 100 pages from the end and so bored. She just compared feet squishing in mud to "overlubricated sex." 🙄 I have not been endeared to the writing style or characters. It might end up getting 1 star from me.
I liked the novel. The commune ostensibly wants to undo some of the ills of modern humanity (though it ends up as corrupt and disorganized as anything else) but maybe humanity itself was the mistake. Maybe the evolutionary accident that ensured our survival over neanderthals was where things went wrong. Except Bruno was wrong too and early homo sapiens actually weren’t all that bad.
It's worth trying to carry on to the end I think as several people in my book club thought about DNFing it but said they were ultimately glad to finish it. It's also been long listed for the National Book Award in America so it seems to be a book prize darling
I just finished this book after reading about 1/3 and putting it down for a few weeks. I like Kushner's other novels very much (The Mars Room, The Flamethrowers), and was initially a bit uncertain about this one. I've watched a number of videos of Ms Kushner discussing the book, and I got a different perspective from hearing her speak. She's a bit of a character herself, and is very funny and sort of free-wheeling in her conversational manner. I ended up liking the book very much, perhaps not as much as The Mars room, but I am incredibly impressed with the breadth and depth of her knowledge and erudition, as well as the gravity of her philosophical thought.
Your mention of Sadie, looking at the night sky made me think of this lyric from Billy Bragg’s A New England:
“I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them, but they were only satellites
It's wrong to wish on space hardware
I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care.”
Yes. It lacked a thematic center. Yes the end fizzled out. yet. She gave us this Sadie Smith character. Who I'll always equate with Becky Sharpe, Lady Eustace, etc., in my head.
I wouldn't be mad if it won. But I'm still kinda rooting for James.
You have the best 'traumatised by a book' face I've ever seen! Creation Lake was pretty much exactly what I expected. It's great writing, and no redeemable characters whatsoever!
😂
The dispute over the megabasin, the way that women were treated in the commune, the defeat of the Neanderthals by the Homo sapiens, the marginalization of the Cagots….I thought all these pointed to man’s domination and subjugation of others, with capitalism being a prime example. And the cynicism readers note in the novel is personified by the powerful men in the story claiming to believe in one thing and actually doing the opposite, purely for personal wealth and power.
This is a good book club book because it generates a lot of conversation as people try to figure out the point of it.
Definitely! I’ve almost enjoyed the chat more than reading the novel itself. 😄
I felt for you here trying to tie down this very unusual book, like your book club member I am still not sure what the main message of the book is but I quite agree that it probably does not matter. I thoroughly enjoyed this novel despite being slightly mystified by it, by the end and after some reflection I felt it well deserved its place on the Booker list as it is so unusual and really quite unique. I also felt despite some quite dark undertones it was frequently quite witty, the comment about the age of the French man and position of his belt was one that bought a smile to my face too as it is quite a truism! Thanks for the review.
Yes, a really engaging read! Glad you felt similar.
Enjoy your reviews very much! I was intrigued by much of this novel but mystified also. You have probably read the blistering review by Brandon Taylor in the London Review of Books. A very flattering review appeared in the September 19 issue of the New York Review of Books. I guess I am somewhere in between. For the first time I have read all,of the Booker shortlist. If I was to ranked them I would place James as my favorite. A close second would be The Safekeep! In third place would be Creation Lake. But I’m very mixed on that novel. I guess I would place Stone Yard Devotional in fourth place. Wasn’t as impressed by it as you were though. Orbital would be my number five pick. And Held would be a distant sixth.
Thanks very much! Interesting to hear your ranking of the list. And I’d not seen that review by Taylor.
I think the publisher did this book a real disservice by marketing it as a thriller. I did like the book, but I really had to take a minute to adjust my expectations. I found it more comic than thrilling, really. Sadie was such an idiot and I laughed at her throughout. I've been pondering how this book shifts in meaning if perhaps Sadie is viewed as an unreliable narrator, which she almost certainly was. There's a lot to ponder in this book, and that's why I loved it.
I was one of the book club readers who felt the point of this book was a bit unclear with the two halves not quite coming together for me. I felt it was a bit Emperors New Clothes and I was trying to see something that wasn't there.
About what you said about Sadie enjoying having the upper hand in situations: I went to an event with Rachel Kushner this week and she said that Sadie likes to think she’s in a French film noir movie, but she isn’t of course 😂.
Haha! Yes, it’s very much like Sadie believes she’s in a film but she’s not and she isn’t good at the simulation - she’s just ruthless.
I particularly liked the character of Bruno, who voluntarily underwent two weeks in the total dark in a cave. I think Bruno turns out to be the hero of the book, though thru most of the book he's kind of a laughing stock. What turns it for me is the narrator goes off by herself at the end of the book, and reminisces that it might or might not have been Bruno whom she saw that day by the body of water. Of all the things that happened, it's Bruno who occupies her thoughts.
Your excellent and fair appraisal confirms my response at page 142 of Creation Lake.
😊📚
It sounds like my kind of book. Thanks
Another wonderful video.
Thank you! 😊
I'm reading it now. I like new structure, etc. but I'm 200 pages in and having a hard time caring what happens next.
I still have no idea what this book was trying to say. I think I will re read it before the winner announcement.
A good review for a difficult book. Also like odays tee shirt. Robyn (a kiwi)
Thanks! 😊
Hi Eric, I’m listening to Creation Lake and I’m experiencing it as satire?? Am I reading it wrong?
I was watching Who Do You Think You Are on BBC iPlayer. It was the episode with Olly Muirs. I was thinking of you as his father’s family came from Latina.
I am about 100 pages in and don't know what I think. I don't love it but don't hate it. I'm just not gripped. I will keep going!
Im 100 pages from the end and so bored. She just compared feet squishing in mud to "overlubricated sex." 🙄 I have not been endeared to the writing style or characters. It might end up getting 1 star from me.
I agree with you…
I liked the novel. The commune ostensibly wants to undo some of the ills of modern humanity (though it ends up as corrupt and disorganized as anything else) but maybe humanity itself was the mistake. Maybe the evolutionary accident that ensured our survival over neanderthals was where things went wrong. Except Bruno was wrong too and early homo sapiens actually weren’t all that bad.
I’m reading this book and struggling to finish it. My opinion is that Booker dropped the ball with this one…
It's worth trying to carry on to the end I think as several people in my book club thought about DNFing it but said they were ultimately glad to finish it. It's also been long listed for the National Book Award in America so it seems to be a book prize darling
In my opinion, they should have picked Enlightenment.
I don't think I'll attempt this one. Thank you.
💙
Maybe Plato's description of the cave-dwellers in The Republic wasn't meant as a parable? What if they really were trogs?
I read 100 pages and put it down. I was really bored by the story.
Sounds a fascinating book, about infiltrating communes.