When I learned to fly in 1995, the cost was reasonable and a 172 (wet) could be had for $60/hr. Now the cost of that same 172 (1970s model) is about $180/hr. But my income hasn't tripled in that time. Hasn't even doubled, so that's why the cost is out of reach for so many.
Nice analysis! In addition to housing and fuel costs, home & auto insurance rates/costs have also grown faster than inflation. Add that to lagging wages and the result is lower margins, and lower surplus income available for hobbies or other personal pursuits, like flying. Like you say, it's priorities and choices! Many in my circle of "happy airport bums" drive older used cars, and live very modestly, and some have airplane partnerships, so they can continue to fly.
I’ve been flying on and off for 45 years. Never did it professionally but I obtained the ratings of commercial pilot, single and multi engine land instrument airplane. I got my multi add-on in 1995. It cost me around $3200 to add that rating. I have about 28 hours in multi engine aircraft and I have not touched it since. It is next to impossible to be able to afford almost $400 an hour just to rent an airplane. With the cost of insurance and being out of it for so long, it would take at least 25 hours if that with an instructor to even be able to solo. Wouldn’t even know if I could do that because some insurances require at least 100 hours in multi time just to allow for rental. I would have to spend $9000 just to solo a multi engine airplane again. The cost of a C-172 for rental is very expensive compared to what it was back in 1989. I flew 10 hours in a piper arrow complex airplane for about $60 an hour. Can’t touch one for under 250 today. Although I make a good living, with the cost of everything else in my life and a family it is next to impossible to fly a 5 hour round trip cross country in a 172 which would cost nearly $1000. It’s not just about learning to fly is about maintaining currency. I have probably spent well over $300,000 since I started learning how to fly. Incidentally, in a military flying club back in 1983 when I started I was able to fly a C-152 with instructor for $49 an hour dual! We didn’t have Fore Flight and a sectional chart cost $2.95!
I just finished my ppl at a local part 61 flight school. I made it at 63 hours including the check ride, spread out over about 13 months. including gear, online ground school, foreflight subscription, and checkride fees it cost me $19930. I paid for it using copious amounts of overtime, I live frugally within my regular paycheck so all my overtime could go to my flying account. If I didn’t live as frugally as I did and have a job where huge amounts of overtime were readily available, it would’ve been impossible for me as a middle class working man.
Received my license in 1976 (was 16 at that time). Cost was around $2000 and a little over 60 hours. It did take me about a year to do that, bussing tables and washing dishes. A Cesena 150 was about $15 / hr. A instructor was about the same.
Inflation is a government made. On top of the increase on cost of good and services, please include federal, state, county, and city taxes. And house and vehicle maintenance and repairs.
I learned to fly in the 1970's and while it was much cheaper then, I quickly learned that personal flying never makes economic sense. Because it's not the cost of acquiring the license or the high purchase price of the aircraft, it's the recurring costs of tie-down or hanger space, maintenance, avionics repairs, and the big engine overhauls at mandatory intervals. You can buy an awful lot of 1st class airline tickets for that kind of money and get to your destination a whole lot faster than a Cessna can. Although I am thankful for the skills of navigation, communication, meteorology, and emergency preparedness it taught me that have come in handy in other aspects of my life.
Thanks for watching and commenting! Trickle down economics is one of the worst political sales pitches based on flawed logic ever...and yet people still voted for it...🤣
I received my ppl after 44 hrs in 1988 and don't recall the costs but they were not significant to me at the time, a year later my father and I bought a used 1973 C-182 in nice condition for $32,500. We kept it a few years and upgraded the radios along the way and after starting a family and needing to buy a house it was sold for $36,000 and my flying days were over. Today I think about getting back into it but the costs are far out of reach with even that same old 1973 182 probably over $200k, then the costs of everything associated, forget about it.
I learned in 1980. Took my check ride at 42 hours. Around 1985 I found out about skydiving and by 1992 I stopped flying. When I turned 63 i started taking sailplane lessons. I soloed but I found out about Paragliding. Now I just paraglide. Took about 6 months, not easy. But pg is So much simpler less hassle and I can get easy 2 hour flight or more in the mountains. 3+ hours on ridge lift. Don’t need a tow plane. But now I want to get current and fly around in a SEL. Maybe before I get to 65.
25% of the fuel cost in California is just tax, not to mention all the fuel sold in this state has to be refined in California, further increasing the costs
I would love to fly with you. I received my PPL in 1990 in just 9 weeks after I graduated from college. I landed with 40.0 hours for my check ride. The examiner was not happy initially although quickly approved my new license. I had 50+ hours in ultralights prior to starting my training so that made a big difference. I have owned approximately 12 aircraft and built 2 experimental airplanes. I really miss my old Pitts S1S. It was a hot rod. The Pitts factory has not produced a new Pitts S2C since 2017. It’s too expensive and most pilots purchase a monoplane instead. I would love to purchase a like new Extra or Gamebird. Of course, that would be around $500K, plus insurance, hangar rent, maintenance, and lots of fuel costs.
Great analysis. And good point about the cost to learning to fly being not hugely overly expensive. It has always been expensive. Also good to see flight schools have admitted that it takes way more than the 40 hour minimum. When I learned to fly in the 80s I know several students sucked in by the 40 hour cost estimate and had to leave training without their PPL because of cost. They were bitter about the “ripoff” of flight training.
I think airplane ownership is a bigger factor than most people give it credit for. Having your license is great, but having your own airplane is a whole dream in of itself. And when you could choose between a brand new airplane or an upscale pickup, it wasn't that hard to go for the airplane. However, if you are forced to choose between a new airplane and the entire net worth of an upper-middle class household, the airplane is a lot harder to justify. And while buying a used plane is an option, the used ones that are still in the upscale-pickup price range are older than most of the people trying to buy them and have all mechanical and safety issues that come with old age. On top of that, they won't have any avionics which most pilots trained in the current century will have any proficiency. The idea of ownership, even when we're not talking about airplanes, is what most people strive for. Nobody plans on renting a house for their entire lives, we strive towards home ownership. If someone leases a car instead of buying it outright, they aren't gonna brag about that on Facebook. When we want something, it's just human nature to want to have actual ownership of it, and not just have permission to use someone else's.
@@ssairshows most folks aren’t flying a 172 in IFR but even the old panel usually has a VOR/LOC GS if that’s going to be a thing. The iPad can give a backup attitude, moving map, traffic, synthetic vision, TAWS, weather, obstacles etc. I show pilots the G3000 in the plane I fly and often they just say “my iPad has that”.
@@sledawgpilot In my experience, more people than not who own planes that are IFR capable are instrument rated and stay current. These days airplanes old enough to still have a six pack need new panels, engines, paint, and interior. It's been years since I came across a new aircraft owner who didn't upgrade anything. I know what ForeFlight can do; however, it's NOT a substitute for installed avionics.
@@ssairshows who said it was a substitute for installed panels or legal for IFR? I seriously doubt the number of IFR operations come close to VFR in small planes. Every low weather day I’m at a busy GA airport, the little plane ops drop to near zero but I’ve only been doing this for 45 years and 12,000 hours so I could be wrong. In the words of Robert Buck in his excellent book, “Weather Flying”: “IFR flying means weather flying” pretty profound actually. If you’re not in clouds you’re not encountering low ceilings, ice or embedded thunderstorms. The ability of a 172 to take on ice in particular is zero.
It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next 30+ years as the GA fleet continues to age. With the cost of new aircraft, it's hard to no imagine that GA flying costs will continue to creep up in relative to inflation. It would also be nice if the FAA could figure out a way to make certification more affordable/ possible so we can see some technological improvements and/ or more companies offering engines, avionics and aircraft.
I learned to fly in 1966 in a J-3 Cub $5 an hour instructor for 15 hours of dual and 42 hours wet airplane $4 an hour. Had my license in 42 hours for less than $300. Good thing, I was only earning $102 a month as a Navy air traffic controller.
Ha! I learned to fly in 1978 in Texas using a C150. The plane cost $12/hr and the instructor was another $3/hr. In 1979 I bought a brand new C172 with the latest collins radios, for $30,000. The increased liability insurance became a huge portion of the cost of flying in the 80s. I'm not flying anymore but am very grateful for having been able to afford it over the last 40 some years.
I worked for a major oil and gas company, having said that the cost of gas is a product of what the government has done to the oil industry. one example of this is all the damn regulations and restrictions put on them. In return the oil company's had to put in place what the government wanted and that cost alot of money to install AND maintain it. and there are lots more examples.
A root issue with GA costing so much is that airplane components are a captive market due to the ridiculous amount that certification costs and mix in lawsuits. Think about how the engine tech is comically ancient but you'll pay out the nose for a new engine from Lycoming or Contintental because they're the only games in town. They do not have to compete or innovate at all, and due to low volume they can charge hilariously inflated prices. Certificated avionics the same. Combine these captive markets with GA being a low volume market (and dwindling, the amount of GA activity is only going to decrease with time and rising costs - the data is skewed for GA post-pandemic because of people motivated to make "six figures at an airline" and running to flight schools) - and you have a recipe that essentially works the opposite of every other technologically innovative sector. It's not a free market environment when it comes to GA or flying in general.
Young people these days are glued to the screen (games, youtube, etc) they have zero interest in flying. I took each one of my 3 kids on rides on my Extra 200 I only managed to convince one of them to go the second time and no more after that. They still travel with me in my Mooney out of necessity, but they have zero interest in learning anything about flying. People are increasingly becoming lazy and expect to be kept safe by technology (e.g. self driving cars, cars that brakes by itself when about to hit something etc) they have no appetite for GA which demands the pilot to be in charge of his own safety. With this, I see GA to fade into obscurity like horse riding. Like horse riding, used to be affordable and necessity for everyone, now costs $200/hr as rental and $2000/month just to park the horse if you own one.
It’s cost way more now at 62 than it did at 17 when Dad was paying for it, he’s 92 now hmmmm something to think about, wonder if he wants to experience some old times
Thank You, very interesting take on the issue. I now live in Sweden, pretty much the same here except gas prices are higher. Also housing costs are very different depending on rural or city. Fewer people fly, unfortunately private aviation is on the decline. I however do not think economics is the only reason. Competing interests in modern society are also to blame. Young people tend to be less persistent in one activity than we used to, learning to fly requires commitment over time. It seems many try flying and quit after about 3 years.
👍✅ Good breakdown👏 One day could you invite the old funny Spencer on the show again, kinda miss him sometimes 🤣 Maybe get Tiberius to come visit again.
Thank you for doing all the math on this, excellent video btw. Learning to fly has always been expensive in my opinion. I will say tho at least the pilot pay at the airlines has finally made up some lost ground in the recent years.
I fly heavy international on a 777 now; I started flight training back in 2010 in my last year of high school. I received my ppl for less than 6k maybe even less then 5? Can’t remember for sure. Taking my checkride at 41 hours. Looking at everything now, I still think it’s worth it for the person who wants to become a private pilot. For someone who wants to make it a career; I can’t help feel if you didn’t start flight training prior to 2022 you may have missed the boat, or at least you have a harder and significantly more expensive journey ahead then those who received ATPs prior to 2020. I really don’t want to be negative, just an opinion. I hope everyone has happy landings
I am trying to get back in the cockpit after a long break. The most disheartening issue to me has been airport operations. It is quite obvious in my city the local airport has pushed out all private pilots. They want private jet traffic and regional carriers only despite light traffic at the airport. Two FBOs run the airport like the Mafia. The City gets a cut in on the fuel prices. Hanger space? At least twice as much as around the rest of the country and only through the FBOs. Asking the FBO on the cost of hanger space, and "it all depends." There is no fixed price schedule. The nearest airport away from here are selling $200K hangers and will not allow tie-down space despite being on a massive airport property. Get the picture? When I ask the airport managers at either of the local airports about hanger space, complete silence is the reply. Not even a courtesy of a reply. When you factor in $500-$600 a month hanger space (if you can get it), it adds significantly to flying inflation and inconvenience.
Rental rates for just a C-150 in Southern California are out of control. I'm soon to retire and plan to fly Ultralights under FAR 103. I plan to do this in Tennessee.
Theres been wage stagnation for everyone but minimum wage workers. I worked at Magic Mountain in 1986 for $3.65/hr. Using Spencers figure of 2.8% inflation per year that would make that wage pay about $10.42/hr in 2024. Yet you can now get a fast food job here in California that pays the state mandated minimum of $20/hr. When the state wants to raise the minimum they need to raise everyones wage by the same percentage before were all at the minimum wage level. And why not because they always tell us raising the minimum wage wont hurt anybody?
@@wbay3848 yes exactly. So instead of just raising the hourly rate for minimum wage workers, why not raise the wages of everybody by the same percent? Otherwise, soon everybody will have to work an hour to buy a fast food meal.
Thanks for the comment. Valid point and I should have been more clear that I was talking about the increase in terms of percentage of income flying consumes.
And of course, I’m at the same dilemma. I was 30 years ago. Should I invest in becoming a CFI since that is almost a starvation occupation. I realize there’s more demand for CFI ‘s but the pay is still not there for it to be your primary job, especially if you have a family to support.
That's why it's an average and another viewer made a comment here that my numbers for rental and instruction were too high! Yes, the four corners of the country are more costly than the middle for aviation.
It's good math and a good video, but I don't think it quite does justice to show that the average student pilot doesn't fit the model of average pay at 80k+ most student pilots are earning about half that if I had to guess, aking become a commercial pilot definitely an all or nothing lifestyle, and taking multiple years to obtain, that also drives the cost up... Because time is money.
I’m on that boat and I have had to save for almost 10 years since 2014 to get back at it and hopeful get my ppl lessons finished. And mind you with working 2 jobs for about a quarter or that time. Love flying but everything is absolutely expensive these days. I wish I had done it sooner.
I learned very cheaply in 2002 since 9/11 destroyed the industry and CFIs where happy to get any money. I think we maybe headed to a surplus of CFI's again and that may mean there will be deals.
The dairy industry is subsidized so the price of milk remains consistent. Because " milk does a body good ". Lol Another reason to vote all politicians out of office. What have they done for you?
Thank you for watching the video. The simple answer is the inflation tools that calculate the dollar value differences go from a start year to an end year and do a calculation based on all those years. The longer the time period the more factors to the calculation of the average. So however you want to look at it from the years 1986 to 2024 the average inflation all things considered is 2.8%
You got it right what you missed are why prices are so high. Touched on it with inelastic demand fueled by debt driven undisciplined spending. Likened to the second part elitism greed. Politicians in bed with policy makers buying options on stocks. Then make policy that make oil scarce and drive prices up further. Aspiring pilots know if they just pay the price now it will hopefully be worth it in the future. Borrowing makes it all worse.
Why would flying be affordable when you need a second mortgage to eat healthy? Inflation adjustment is a good metric, but income is the real issue. CFI's were making more, my industry was making more, pretty much everyone was making more money when adjusted. Except the kids working menial jobs which are now taken by middle aged immigrants. They do the household income up hide how bad it is since there were FAR more single income households in 86. Now both parents have to work, or if you're single you have to make way more.
When I started flying the plane was $25/hr and the instructor was $9/hr for PPL and $11/hr IFR. Very good information and video. However, fuel is a commodity so tax and demand is the largest contributor to the price. The suite was filed in accusation of forming a cabal to align market share in lieu of mergers & acquisitions (M&A). Thanks largest benefactors of M&A’s are lawyers, who also file law suites.
The pandemic did more to bolster general aviation than any other factor in recent history. People began upgrading their aircraft with better avionics, sought instrument ratings, and avoided the airlines whenever possible. Demand is certainly higher now than any other time in recent decades. It's been good for the industry as it's attracted new participants.
9:07 "....the real issue is wage stagnation and increased housing costs...." Oh come on Spencer! You are old enough to know that the "real issue" is the FED's fear of a deflationary debt spiral. The FED and/or congress will run the national debt to WHATEVER IT TAKES to keep inflation alive. Your aerobatics may be good but I wonder about your macro economics. If you think that inflation is bad then talk to a pre 2008 retiree on a fixed income.
Thanks for your comment! Inflation exists and always has. It's part of all economies. Controlling it with monetary policy is more art than science; however, it is manipulated.
Exactly. The same amount of gold or silver would buy you a house in the 50s as it would today. Inflation was sold to masses as a way for the government to indirectly tax it's population. But hey, the boomers property they got for 80k is worth over a million so all good right?!
You are ridiculous sir. The problem is inflation and increased prices across the board. Inflation itself isn't the main issue though, it's corporate greed and price fixing, with no monopoly busting going on. This needs to change, until it changes we are fucked.
Today with the FIAT currency and the digital banking there is no reason for interest rate other than 0% and and no need for inflation. Some service fees are OK to run the banking software and ATMs and that is all... The traditional banking with the known USURY system is to feed the greedy rich only...
Thanks for watching this video! I used the actual historical inflation figures. There is an inflation website link in the video description...check it out.
@@ssairshows I am appreciate your insight. I think it is the actual historical figures that could use some tweaking. It would seem that the definition of what constitutes inflation is a moving target as of late. If very few of your metrics match actual historical numbers, then what does? Either the numbers are wrong or the items you picked were anomalies. I think you picked some good metrics so that leads me to believe the numbers might need adjusting by the powers that be. Maybe someone could normalize your findings and see how it plays out. Good video. Thank you for making it.
The real problem is inflation (governments Printing money - which devalues the buying power of earned capital and savings) coupled with increased taxation. You make a good point in regards to average wage/salary, but it is not just what your employer pays you, but what you get to keep from your pay after taxed, and this tax creep applies at the national, state and regional levels. The rest of your fundimental economics is reasonably sound, and nicely presented.
The real problem is more complicated than that. Inflation does not happen because of money printing (it is a variable, but not the cause), if not look at Japan. You can print all the money in the world, but if the money is not used, it does not inflate prices. It is a factor, but it is far more complicated than that. Second, taxes in the 80% were higher than now. So, your two reasons are wrong, at most misinformed. This is a whole economics class, but I'll summarize a few factors, inflation after 2020 happened because of the supply chain problems, due to shortages in products, companies using these factors to increase prices even more (greed), people willing to pay more for stuff due to stimulus checks (printing of money) and there are many many more reasons, like wars/conflicts in Ukraine and Taiwan, china, tariffs, I can continue on and on. PS. this inflation episode was worldwide and in fact the US had it good compared to other big countries (But of course most people don't know and don't care)
A huge part of the problem with energy costs is that we have an administration that has done everything they could to collapse our energy independence. When a large percentage of our oil comes from foreign countries, we pay the price THEY want to charge for it. We were becoming energy independent before Brandon took over. Politics and socialism have more to do with energy prices than the stale excuse that American energy companies are taking advantage of Americans. The “Green New Deal” is also driving costs up. Why would an oil company want to invest in production when the politicians are saying they are dismantling everything but “renewables”. It’s such a joke.
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but the USA is the largest producing country in the world these days - www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545 and has been since 2018.
Your "inflation" examples are ridiculous. Acting like we are doing "better" because actualy prices are cheaper than your estimated inflation $$$. Despite the fact that everything is too expensive and we can't afford any of this because wages have been stagnant. You should take this video down it's stupid.
Thanks for watching the video! I appreciate your question and the answer is you could have just clicked on the last chapter in the index under the description of the video and gone right to the final answer🤣
The problem today is greenhorns as flight instructors, as they pad their flight hours for a commercial aviation career. I would much rather learn from someone like you or Pilot_obet. Then there is the issue with the fleet of aircraft available to learn on, many with questionable maintenance records at best, incomplete aircraft maintenance log books, and corner cutting at flight schools. I have walked away from several opportunities, as when I asked to see the maintenance log book for the aircraft, I was treated like I just grew horns out of my head.
@@sotonin When selecting an aircraft you will be flying, pay close attention to the make and model, then research any and all Service Bulletins. Then ensure that ALL of them have been dealt with in the maintenance log book, and walk away if not fixed completely. I wish you luck on your aviation journey!
When I learned to fly in 1995, the cost was reasonable and a 172 (wet) could be had for $60/hr. Now the cost of that same 172 (1970s model) is about $180/hr. But my income hasn't tripled in that time. Hasn't even doubled, so that's why the cost is out of reach for so many.
Great channel mate!
Lucky that Greg pointed out your channel for the double hammerhead :)
Cheers
Nice analysis! In addition to housing and fuel costs, home & auto insurance rates/costs have also grown faster than inflation. Add that to lagging wages and the result is lower margins, and lower surplus income available for hobbies or other personal pursuits, like flying. Like you say, it's priorities and choices! Many in my circle of "happy airport bums" drive older used cars, and live very modestly, and some have airplane partnerships, so they can continue to fly.
I’ve been flying on and off for 45 years. Never did it professionally but I obtained the ratings of commercial pilot, single and multi engine land instrument airplane. I got my multi add-on in 1995. It cost me around $3200 to add that rating. I have about 28 hours in multi engine aircraft and I have not touched it since. It is next to impossible to be able to afford almost $400 an hour just to rent an airplane. With the cost of insurance and being out of it for so long, it would take at least 25 hours if that with an instructor to even be able to solo. Wouldn’t even know if I could do that because some insurances require at least 100 hours in multi time just to allow for rental. I would have to spend $9000 just to solo a multi engine airplane again. The cost of a C-172 for rental is very expensive compared to what it was back in 1989. I flew 10 hours in a piper arrow complex airplane for about $60 an hour. Can’t touch one for under 250 today. Although I make a good living, with the cost of everything else in my life and a family it is next to impossible to fly a 5 hour round trip cross country in a 172 which would cost nearly $1000. It’s not just about learning to fly is about maintaining currency. I have probably spent well over $300,000 since I started learning how to fly. Incidentally, in a military flying club back in 1983 when I started I was able to fly a C-152 with instructor for $49 an hour dual! We didn’t have Fore Flight and a sectional chart cost $2.95!
Problem is wages haven’t increased in sync with inflation. Who has 20k sitting around today. Time to get real, not too many can afford it.
I just finished my ppl at a local part 61 flight school. I made it at 63 hours including the check ride, spread out over about 13 months. including gear, online ground school, foreflight subscription, and checkride fees it cost me $19930. I paid for it using copious amounts of overtime, I live frugally within my regular paycheck so all my overtime could go to my flying account. If I didn’t live as frugally as I did and have a job where huge amounts of overtime were readily available, it would’ve been impossible for me as a middle class working man.
Received my license in 1976 (was 16 at that time). Cost was around $2000 and a little over 60 hours. It did take me about a year to do that, bussing tables and washing dishes.
A Cesena 150 was about $15 / hr. A instructor was about the same.
Inflation is a government made. On top of the increase on cost of good and services, please include federal, state, county, and city taxes. And house and vehicle maintenance and repairs.
Our EAA chapter had a T-Craft club that cost $9.00 per hour wet! That was in the 60's! But the club made enough money to buy a C-150 in just 3 years!
I learned to fly in the 1970's and while it was much cheaper then, I quickly learned that personal flying never makes economic sense. Because it's not the cost of acquiring the license or the high purchase price of the aircraft, it's the recurring costs of tie-down or hanger space, maintenance, avionics repairs, and the big engine overhauls at mandatory intervals. You can buy an awful lot of 1st class airline tickets for that kind of money and get to your destination a whole lot faster than a Cessna can. Although I am thankful for the skills of navigation, communication, meteorology, and emergency preparedness it taught me that have come in handy in other aspects of my life.
Good underlying commentary on the failures of trickle down economics!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Trickle down economics is one of the worst political sales pitches based on flawed logic ever...and yet people still voted for it...🤣
Thanks for the video, you are spot on!
I appreciate your appreciation!🙃
I received my ppl after 44 hrs in 1988 and don't recall the costs but they were not significant to me at the time, a year later my father and I bought a used 1973 C-182 in nice condition for $32,500. We kept it a few years and upgraded the radios along the way and after starting a family and needing to buy a house it was sold for $36,000 and my flying days were over. Today I think about getting back into it but the costs are far out of reach with even that same old 1973 182 probably over $200k, then the costs of everything associated, forget about it.
I learned in 1980. Took my check ride at 42 hours. Around 1985 I found out about skydiving and by 1992 I stopped flying. When I turned 63 i started taking sailplane lessons. I soloed but I found out about Paragliding. Now I just paraglide. Took about 6 months, not easy. But pg is So much simpler less hassle and I can get easy 2 hour flight or more in the mountains. 3+ hours on ridge lift. Don’t need a tow plane.
But now I want to get current and fly around in a SEL. Maybe before I get to 65.
Wow what a great video. Thanks
Fuel cost is mostly taxation with out any representation!
25% of the fuel cost in California is just tax, not to mention all the fuel sold in this state has to be refined in California, further increasing the costs
I would love to fly with you. I received my PPL in 1990 in just 9 weeks after I graduated from college. I landed with 40.0 hours for my check ride. The examiner was not happy initially although quickly approved my new license. I had 50+ hours in ultralights prior to starting my training so that made a big difference. I have owned approximately 12 aircraft and built 2 experimental airplanes. I really miss my old Pitts S1S. It was a hot rod. The Pitts factory has not produced a new Pitts S2C since 2017. It’s too expensive and most pilots purchase a monoplane instead. I would love to purchase a like new Extra or Gamebird. Of course, that would be around $500K, plus insurance, hangar rent, maintenance, and lots of fuel costs.
Great analysis. And good point about the cost to learning to fly being not hugely overly expensive. It has always been expensive.
Also good to see flight schools have admitted that it takes way more than the 40 hour minimum. When I learned to fly in the 80s I know several students sucked in by the 40 hour cost estimate and had to leave training without their PPL because of cost. They were bitter about the “ripoff” of flight training.
I think airplane ownership is a bigger factor than most people give it credit for. Having your license is great, but having your own airplane is a whole dream in of itself. And when you could choose between a brand new airplane or an upscale pickup, it wasn't that hard to go for the airplane. However, if you are forced to choose between a new airplane and the entire net worth of an upper-middle class household, the airplane is a lot harder to justify. And while buying a used plane is an option, the used ones that are still in the upscale-pickup price range are older than most of the people trying to buy them and have all mechanical and safety issues that come with old age. On top of that, they won't have any avionics which most pilots trained in the current century will have any proficiency.
The idea of ownership, even when we're not talking about airplanes, is what most people strive for. Nobody plans on renting a house for their entire lives, we strive towards home ownership. If someone leases a car instead of buying it outright, they aren't gonna brag about that on Facebook. When we want something, it's just human nature to want to have actual ownership of it, and not just have permission to use someone else's.
Restricted, one thing about avionics is that with an ADS-b in and an iPad, you can gain back most of the functionality of an expensive glass panel
How would you do an ILS, VOR, or RNAV LPV approach with an IPad, aside from the fact that it's not legal and completely unsafe?
@@ssairshows most folks aren’t flying a 172 in IFR but even the old panel usually has a VOR/LOC GS if that’s going to be a thing. The iPad can give a backup attitude, moving map, traffic, synthetic vision, TAWS, weather, obstacles etc.
I show pilots the G3000 in the plane I fly and often they just say “my iPad has that”.
@@sledawgpilot In my experience, more people than not who own planes that are IFR capable are instrument rated and stay current. These days airplanes old enough to still have a six pack need new panels, engines, paint, and interior. It's been years since I came across a new aircraft owner who didn't upgrade anything. I know what ForeFlight can do; however, it's NOT a substitute for installed avionics.
@@ssairshows who said it was a substitute for installed panels or legal for IFR? I seriously doubt the number of IFR operations come close to VFR in small planes. Every low weather day I’m at a busy GA airport, the little plane ops drop to near zero but I’ve only been doing this for 45 years and 12,000 hours so I could be wrong. In the words of Robert Buck in his excellent book, “Weather Flying”:
“IFR flying means weather flying” pretty profound actually. If you’re not in clouds you’re not encountering low ceilings, ice or embedded thunderstorms. The ability of a 172 to take on ice in particular is zero.
It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next 30+ years as the GA fleet continues to age. With the cost of new aircraft, it's hard to no imagine that GA flying costs will continue to creep up in relative to inflation. It would also be nice if the FAA could figure out a way to make certification more affordable/ possible so we can see some technological improvements and/ or more companies offering engines, avionics and aircraft.
The FAA just did that with the new MOSAIC rule coming in...no??
Even with that info, I know people that have spent way more on a Landcruiser and camper trailer than I have on flying.
I learned to fly in 1966 in a J-3 Cub $5 an hour instructor for 15 hours of dual and 42 hours wet airplane $4 an hour. Had my license in 42 hours for less than $300. Good thing, I was only earning $102 a month as a Navy air traffic controller.
This is why you fly as high as you can and cut power and glide. Saved me a lot of $$$
Ha! I learned to fly in 1978 in Texas using a C150. The plane cost $12/hr and the instructor was another $3/hr. In 1979 I bought a brand new C172 with the latest collins radios, for $30,000. The increased liability insurance became a huge portion of the cost of flying in the 80s. I'm not flying anymore but am very grateful for having been able to afford it over the last 40 some years.
I worked for a major oil and gas company, having said that the cost of gas is a product of what the government has done to the oil industry. one example of this is all the damn regulations and restrictions put on them. In return the oil company's had to put in place what the government wanted and that cost alot of money to install AND maintain it. and there are lots more examples.
A root issue with GA costing so much is that airplane components are a captive market due to the ridiculous amount that certification costs and mix in lawsuits. Think about how the engine tech is comically ancient but you'll pay out the nose for a new engine from Lycoming or Contintental because they're the only games in town. They do not have to compete or innovate at all, and due to low volume they can charge hilariously inflated prices. Certificated avionics the same. Combine these captive markets with GA being a low volume market (and dwindling, the amount of GA activity is only going to decrease with time and rising costs - the data is skewed for GA post-pandemic because of people motivated to make "six figures at an airline" and running to flight schools) - and you have a recipe that essentially works the opposite of every other technologically innovative sector. It's not a free market environment when it comes to GA or flying in general.
Young people these days are glued to the screen (games, youtube, etc) they have zero interest in flying. I took each one of my 3 kids on rides on my Extra 200 I only managed to convince one of them to go the second time and no more after that. They still travel with me in my Mooney out of necessity, but they have zero interest in learning anything about flying. People are increasingly becoming lazy and expect to be kept safe by technology (e.g. self driving cars, cars that brakes by itself when about to hit something etc) they have no appetite for GA which demands the pilot to be in charge of his own safety. With this, I see GA to fade into obscurity like horse riding. Like horse riding, used to be affordable and necessity for everyone, now costs $200/hr as rental and $2000/month just to park the horse if you own one.
It’s cost way more now at 62 than it did at 17 when Dad was paying for it, he’s 92 now hmmmm something to think about, wonder if he wants to experience some old times
Thank You, very interesting take on the issue. I now live in Sweden, pretty much the same here except gas prices are higher. Also housing costs are very different depending on rural or city. Fewer people fly, unfortunately private aviation is on the decline. I however do not think economics is the only reason. Competing interests in modern society are also to blame. Young people tend to be less persistent in one activity than we used to, learning to fly requires commitment over time. It seems many try flying and quit after about 3 years.
👍✅ Good breakdown👏 One day could you invite the old funny Spencer on the show again, kinda miss him sometimes 🤣 Maybe get Tiberius to come visit again.
It's not easy to be funny about money😁🙃😅
In 1986, the year I got my private certificate, it cost me $2,200 which was for plane, instructor, tests, and materials. And, I got it in 42 hours.
Thank you for doing all the math on this, excellent video btw. Learning to fly has always been expensive in my opinion. I will say tho at least the pilot pay at the airlines has finally made up some lost ground in the recent years.
I fly heavy international on a 777 now; I started flight training back in 2010 in my last year of high school. I received my ppl for less than 6k maybe even less then 5? Can’t remember for sure. Taking my checkride at 41 hours. Looking at everything now, I still think it’s worth it for the person who wants to become a private pilot. For someone who wants to make it a career; I can’t help feel if you didn’t start flight training prior to 2022 you may have missed the boat, or at least you have a harder and significantly more expensive journey ahead then those who received ATPs prior to 2020. I really don’t want to be negative, just an opinion. I hope everyone has happy landings
I am trying to get back in the cockpit after a long break. The most disheartening issue to me has been airport operations. It is quite obvious in my city the local airport has pushed out all private pilots. They want private jet traffic and regional carriers only despite light traffic at the airport. Two FBOs run the airport like the Mafia. The City gets a cut in on the fuel prices. Hanger space? At least twice as much as around the rest of the country and only through the FBOs. Asking the FBO on the cost of hanger space, and "it all depends." There is no fixed price schedule.
The nearest airport away from here are selling $200K hangers and will not allow tie-down space despite being on a massive airport property. Get the picture? When I ask the airport managers at either of the local airports about hanger space, complete silence is the reply. Not even a courtesy of a reply.
When you factor in $500-$600 a month hanger space (if you can get it), it adds significantly to flying inflation and inconvenience.
2:17 The issue is that you're not getting paid anymore than you were in 1986. In fact you're probably getting paid less due to inflation.
Neat.
Rental rates for just a C-150 in Southern California are out of control. I'm soon to retire and plan to fly Ultralights under FAR 103. I plan to do this in Tennessee.
Theres been wage stagnation for everyone but minimum wage workers. I worked at Magic Mountain in 1986 for $3.65/hr. Using Spencers figure of 2.8% inflation per year that would make that wage pay about $10.42/hr in 2024. Yet you can now get a fast food job here in California that pays the state mandated minimum of $20/hr. When the state wants to raise the minimum they need to raise everyones wage by the same percentage before were all at the minimum wage level. And why not because they always tell us raising the minimum wage wont hurt anybody?
@@wbay3848 yes exactly. So instead of just raising the hourly rate for minimum wage workers, why not raise the wages of everybody by the same percent? Otherwise, soon everybody will have to work an hour to buy a fast food meal.
Interesting. One minor point: The difference between 17.3% and 23.5% is an increase of 35.8% (not 6.2%).
Thanks for the comment. Valid point and I should have been more clear that I was talking about the increase in terms of percentage of income flying consumes.
And of course, I’m at the same dilemma. I was 30 years ago. Should I invest in becoming a CFI since that is almost a starvation occupation. I realize there’s more demand for CFI ‘s but the pay is still not there for it to be your primary job, especially if you have a family to support.
Averages are misleading! A lot higher in the greater metropolitan New York / Northern New Jersey area. Your rates are more applicable to MidWest USA.
That's why it's an average and another viewer made a comment here that my numbers for rental and instruction were too high! Yes, the four corners of the country are more costly than the middle for aviation.
Could you make another video going back to the 1950s and compare the numbers
It's good math and a good video, but I don't think it quite does justice to show that the average student pilot doesn't fit the model of average pay at 80k+ most student pilots are earning about half that if I had to guess, aking become a commercial pilot definitely an all or nothing lifestyle, and taking multiple years to obtain, that also drives the cost up... Because time is money.
I’m on that boat and I have had to save for almost 10 years since 2014 to get back at it and hopeful get my ppl lessons finished. And mind you with working 2 jobs for about a quarter or that time. Love flying but everything is absolutely expensive these days. I wish I had done it sooner.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
If God had intended for Man to fly he would have given him more money!
Winner for best comment so far!
I learned very cheaply in 2002 since 9/11 destroyed the industry and CFIs where happy to get any money. I think we maybe headed to a surplus of CFI's again and that may mean there will be deals.
The dairy industry is subsidized so the price of milk remains consistent. Because " milk does a body good ". Lol
Another reason to vote all politicians out of office. What have they done for you?
Why would you use the average inflation rate not actual inflation rates year by year (2020-2024 had way higher inflation rates than the average)
Thank you for watching the video. The simple answer is the inflation tools that calculate the dollar value differences go from a start year to an end year and do a calculation based on all those years. The longer the time period the more factors to the calculation of the average. So however you want to look at it from the years 1986 to 2024 the average inflation all things considered is 2.8%
You got it right what you missed are why prices are so high. Touched on it with inelastic demand fueled by debt driven undisciplined spending. Likened to the second part elitism greed. Politicians in bed with policy makers buying options on stocks. Then make policy that make oil scarce and drive prices up further. Aspiring pilots know if they just pay the price now it will hopefully be worth it in the future. Borrowing makes it all worse.
25k on PPL
Why would flying be affordable when you need a second mortgage to eat healthy? Inflation adjustment is a good metric, but income is the real issue. CFI's were making more, my industry was making more, pretty much everyone was making more money when adjusted. Except the kids working menial jobs which are now taken by middle aged immigrants. They do the household income up hide how bad it is since there were FAR more single income households in 86. Now both parents have to work, or if you're single you have to make way more.
I sold my plane as I could no longer afford it any more.
No!!!
I’m depressed 😔 now
It's never been affordable!
It used to be more attainable might be the word. Definitely used to be more attainable in the 70's -90's
When I started flying the plane was $25/hr and the instructor was $9/hr for PPL and $11/hr IFR. Very good information and video. However, fuel is a commodity so tax and demand is the largest contributor to the price. The suite was filed in accusation of forming a cabal to align market share in lieu of mergers & acquisitions (M&A). Thanks largest benefactors of M&A’s are lawyers, who also file law suites.
I can relate. 1978. Piper Warrior was $28 wet and Iinstructor was $10
Interesting how this video never touches on the effects of the pandemic on costs, never touches on federal government policies effects on costs.
The pandemic did more to bolster general aviation than any other factor in recent history. People began upgrading their aircraft with better avionics, sought instrument ratings, and avoided the airlines whenever possible. Demand is certainly higher now than any other time in recent decades. It's been good for the industry as it's attracted new participants.
9:07 "....the real issue is wage stagnation and increased housing costs...." Oh come on Spencer! You are old enough to know that the "real issue" is the FED's fear of a deflationary debt spiral. The FED and/or congress will run the national debt to WHATEVER IT TAKES to keep inflation alive. Your aerobatics may be good but I wonder about your macro economics. If you think that inflation is bad then talk to a pre 2008 retiree on a fixed income.
Thanks for your comment! Inflation exists and always has. It's part of all economies. Controlling it with monetary policy is more art than science; however, it is manipulated.
Exactly. The same amount of gold or silver would buy you a house in the 50s as it would today. Inflation was sold to masses as a way for the government to indirectly tax it's population. But hey, the boomers property they got for 80k is worth over a million so all good right?!
You are ridiculous sir. The problem is inflation and increased prices across the board. Inflation itself isn't the main issue though, it's corporate greed and price fixing, with no monopoly busting going on. This needs to change, until it changes we are fucked.
Today with the FIAT currency and the digital banking there is no reason for interest rate other than 0% and and no need for inflation.
Some service fees are OK to run the banking software and ATMs and that is all...
The traditional banking with the known USURY system is to feed the greedy rich only...
@@sotonin Today we have the USURY banking...
It sounds like the inflation number that you are using is too low. If everything is higher than it should be, then your should be, should be higher.
Thanks for watching this video! I used the actual historical inflation figures. There is an inflation website link in the video description...check it out.
@@ssairshows I am appreciate your insight. I think it is the actual historical figures that could use some tweaking. It would seem that the definition of what constitutes inflation is a moving target as of late. If very few of your metrics match actual historical numbers, then what does? Either the numbers are wrong or the items you picked were anomalies. I think you picked some good metrics so that leads me to believe the numbers might need adjusting by the powers that be. Maybe someone could normalize your findings and see how it plays out. Good video. Thank you for making it.
No
I thought $30k for ppl is normal
Fleet Week - heh heh
You didn’t need a 9:29 video just to say no.
It is when the military pays for it! 😂
The real problem is inflation (governments Printing money - which devalues the buying power of earned capital and savings) coupled with increased taxation. You make a good point in regards to average wage/salary, but it is not just what your employer pays you, but what you get to keep from your pay after taxed, and this tax creep applies at the national, state and regional levels.
The rest of your fundimental economics is reasonably sound, and nicely presented.
The real problem is more complicated than that. Inflation does not happen because of money printing (it is a variable, but not the cause), if not look at Japan. You can print all the money in the world, but if the money is not used, it does not inflate prices. It is a factor, but it is far more complicated than that. Second, taxes in the 80% were higher than now. So, your two reasons are wrong, at most misinformed. This is a whole economics class, but I'll summarize a few factors, inflation after 2020 happened because of the supply chain problems, due to shortages in products, companies using these factors to increase prices even more (greed), people willing to pay more for stuff due to stimulus checks (printing of money) and there are many many more reasons, like wars/conflicts in Ukraine and Taiwan, china, tariffs, I can continue on and on. PS. this inflation episode was worldwide and in fact the US had it good compared to other big countries (But of course most people don't know and don't care)
A huge part of the problem with energy costs is that we have an administration that has done everything they could to collapse our energy independence. When a large percentage of our oil comes from foreign countries, we pay the price THEY want to charge for it. We were becoming energy independent before Brandon took over. Politics and socialism have more to do with energy prices than the stale excuse that American energy companies are taking advantage of Americans. The “Green New Deal” is also driving costs up. Why would an oil company want to invest in production when the politicians are saying they are dismantling everything but “renewables”. It’s such a joke.
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but the USA is the largest producing country in the world these days - www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545 and has been since 2018.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. I work in the oil industry.
@@jsmith4993 I do. I have a cousin that was 2nd from the top in one the major divisions at a global energy company.
thanks for this sleeping pill !!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Your "inflation" examples are ridiculous. Acting like we are doing "better" because actualy prices are cheaper than your estimated inflation $$$. Despite the fact that everything is too expensive and we can't afford any of this because wages have been stagnant. You should take this video down it's stupid.
What a waste of time. Cars, gas, milk? Who cares? Just get to it this is a waste of time
Thanks for watching the video! I appreciate your question and the answer is you could have just clicked on the last chapter in the index under the description of the video and gone right to the final answer🤣
@@ssairshows Like I said, waste of time. Why create a useless video that could have been a few minutes long with actual useful content.
Nope it was to give context, if ur attention span is short just say so
The problem today is greenhorns as flight instructors, as they pad their flight hours for a commercial aviation career. I would much rather learn from someone like you or Pilot_obet.
Then there is the issue with the fleet of aircraft available to learn on, many with questionable maintenance records at best, incomplete aircraft maintenance log books, and corner cutting at flight schools. I have walked away from several opportunities, as when I asked to see the maintenance log book for the aircraft, I was treated like I just grew horns out of my head.
Blame reactionary politicians for why CFIs are cheesing their way to 1500hrs to get a "real" job.
Absolutely this is such a problem. I will be very selective about my CFI when i start my journey soon. I will not accept a low hour CFI
@@sotonin When selecting an aircraft you will be flying, pay close attention to the make and model, then research any and all Service Bulletins. Then ensure that ALL of them have been dealt with in the maintenance log book, and walk away if not fixed completely. I wish you luck on your aviation journey!