Dual GI-275's - LIFR RNAV 13 approach @ KFHB down to MINIMUMS!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- This video shows how the dual Garmin GI-275’s perform superbly in an RNAV approach into KFHB in low IFR conditions getting me down to minimums. The scan is easy and clear. Horizontal and vertical deviation indicators on both the ADI and HSI are clear and easy to fly with. The KFC 150 autopilot is driven perfectly by the top GI-275 (ADAHRS+AP).
Other than forgetting to set the APR mode on the autopilot, this was a nice approach. Well done.
Thanks!!
Talk about getting it close to minimums, nice approach and excellent demonstration of how useful the GI275 can be in LIFR situations.
Thank you!
Doing one on an ILS and being able to go below DA because saw the MALSR.
Nice job. Enjoyed your setup and airmanship.
Thank you!
👍
Really nice video. Appreciate all the work you put into this. Though I'm waiting on a second G5 instead of a pair of GI275s, it's nice to see what these can do. It's a very impressive level of capability for a single engine piston airplane.
Thank you Ryan! It is an impressive level of capability for sure!
I started flying in the early 80's. Got my instrument in a 180, but then bought a 79 Archer with a KNS80 in 85. Thought I'd died and gone to heaven.. Now, all this new electronics is mind boggling... And so are the prices..
LOL!! Yep, mind boggling as well as pocket emptying!!
Nice approach and good job👍👍👍
Thank you!!
Very nice approach. Well done !!!
Thank you!
Nice! I would love that setup in my 172M.
It does work very well!
Good video. One point….the controller cleared you to cross JOBUK at 3000, cleared for approach. You read back to cross JOBUK at or above 3000. The controller did not catch your error which makes him at fault. However, the one who could be put into danger is you not the controller. Be careful.
Good catch. Thank you.
Thanks for these videos.Very helpful. My M20J KI-256 just died. Thinking about GI-275s.
So glad you found them useful! My first Mooney was an M20J and loved it!!! Great very efficient bird!
I made the move to the dual 275's when my KI256 also died. Best decision I have made for the plane yet. The second was installing GAMI-jectors.
@@chriskoppel3940 Cool. Glad to hear! Thanks again.
@@chriskoppel3940 Garmin owes you one. Installing dual GI 275s in my Mooney with synthetic vision and the USB ports. Thanks again for your very informative videos! BTW, I did a lot of tailwheel training at FHB in a Carbon Cub and I used to shoot a Star Trek series not too far from there in Kingsland, GA.
@@aloofdork You will enjoy the setup!
When did you fly the Carbon Cub at KFHB. Who was your CFI? Wow!! Didn’t know that there had been a Star Trek shoot at Kingsland.
@@chriskoppel3940 Thanks. I'm looking forward to it. Thought I replied but guess it got tossed. Flew the CC with Dana Holladay out of KCRG. We practiced at FHB because it was less busy. Yes, Star Trek in Kingsland. You can find it on TH-cam: Star Trek Continues. The sets are still there and I think they offer free tours now and then.
Nice flying. Really like your videos. What AP do you have? Couldn’t see a label but it looks like it may be an stec
Thank you!! At that time I had a KFC-150 and the flight director would come up on the GI275. Since then I have upgraded to a Garmin GFC-500 as well as a GTN 750Xi. Also, replaced all engine instruments with a GI275 EIS.
Nice work! Looks like you’re pretty comfortable with 275s. Can’t wait to get my upgrade done.
Thank you! Let me know when you do.
Nice.
Thanks!
Very instructive. Thank you. The clip is also very well done, audio- and video-wise.
I have a Mooney Ovation with GTN 650 and classical 6-pack (AI and HSI). I'm considering also a pair of GI 275 so your series of 4 videos is very interesting for me.
1. You always fly your approaches at 95 kts and speed brakes? why? to keep the engine warm? Personally I fly at 85 kts without airbrakes (gear down, full flaps, 13" MP)
2. It's very useful indeed to have the ILS displayed on both GI 275. Did they configure your VOR antenna diplexer for that? Currently I have the ILS on the HSI and the CDI below.
3. Wouldn't it be better to keep the old airspeed indicator and the altimeter? it's probably a matter of getting used to glass cockpit? In your video, the display of the GI 275's seem a bit cluttered for me? How does it feel on flight and under pressure?
Hi Kang, You are welcome and very good questions! To answer your questions:
1) I find that the autopilot does better at 95 KIAS rather than at 85. Less wobbling around for sure. If no icing on approach I will use the speed brakes and only approach (takeoff) flaps and have them both out before reaching FAF at 95 KIAS and level. Lowering the gear at the FAF will keep same airspeed and descend at ~3 deg descent (~500 FPM). Easy!! The main advantage of speed brakes and approach flaps is that if one has to do a missed approach at 200 ft AGL all you have to do to level off is to disconnect autopilot and retract the speed brakes. Then add smoothly add power without much trim changes and once assured of positive rate of climb retract gear and flaps. You will not have the significant pitch and lift changes involved in retracting full flaps. Also more engine power provides more airflow over the tail which gives better elevator and rudder control.
2) The Vertical Deviation Indicators (VDI) that display the glide slope (glidepath for an RNAV) are standard on the HSI. Displaying it on the GI275 ADI (top unit) is a setting on the GI275. Note that the GPS navigator (530W, GTN, etc) will send its data to the top unit which then sends it to the HSI (MFD/Standby ADI in my case)
3) It is an individual preference and choice to keep any of the previous six-pack instruments. I chose not to keep them. I am very comfortable with the integrity of the GI275 system having the bottom one as a backup unit. The display on the GI275 is compact but the resolution is amazing and one gets quite used to it very quickly. The only item that is a bit small is the vertical speed indicator but again, one gets quite used to it.
Hope the above answered your questions.
@@chriskoppel3940 EXcellent reply. Thank you for your time.
I am curious, you have a new digital transponder but also the older dial transponder... Why? Some specific reason? Great videos, I am enjoying learning about the Gi275. Debating those or Dynon Skyview.... amazing technology out there.
Thank you Richard!
I kept the older non-ADSB transponder as a backup. Did not need the room in the panel so did not remove it.
If you go with Dynon then, from what I understand, you will have to use their autopilot. The 275 will work with legacy autopilots as well as Garmin’s GFC500.
New subscriber and I love the channel so far!
Why do you open the throttle on take-off, using the twist manipulation vs. just a one, 3-5 second linear push to the firewall? I understand using the twist to fine tune MP settings for cruise / climb /decent power, but not so much for take-off. Is this technique specified in the POH? Just curious:)
Good question Touleau.
Left over habit from having turbocharged Mooneys in the past (K's and M's). I do use "linear push" when I want max performance takeoff on a shorter field.
Hello,
Is your 530 Bluetooth? Or were you able to send the flight plan through the 275 via Bluetooth that sent the flight plan to the 530?
Flight plans as well as ADSB data transfer via a Flightstream 210.
Good video -- can you highlight the top points of comparison between -275 and G5s? Im evaluating them at the moment?
Hi Troy,
There are quite a few: form factor; screen resolution and brightness is much better in 275; square screen allows for a bit more surface area in G5 but not significant at all. Touch screen in 275. Multiple configurations in 275. Many more pages in 275's (HSI, HSI Map, traffic, weather, stormscope, radar altimeter, Map, etc. Reversionary mode in 275's allow removal of six-pack per STC. 275's work with legacy autopilot as well as Garmin ones whereas G5 only works w Garmin ones.
That is a short summary.
@@chriskoppel3940 Thank you -- most helpful.
Hey Chris. Great videos you make.. are you on FB? There is a group with GI275 users.
Thank you! I'll check it out.
@@chriskoppel3940 its called : Garmin GI 275 users group
I requested to join and says membership pending since this am.....
@@chriskoppel3940 Allright, I will see if I can accept your request for membership. Otherwise I will contact the admin and ask him to do it.
So I gotta ask……if that one and only engine had quit how successful of an outcome do you feel you would have had considering all the trees in that part of Florida and 300’ ceilings ?
How successful would you be if a drunk driver pulled into your lane head-on at 90MPH? Don’t rain on his parade. It was a great video and as with life, we take chances just by waking up. People decide the level of calculated risk that they desire to take. I for one prefer to fly multi-engine IFR, but will never judge anyone who does it in a single engine. I did it when I was young and just prayed for protection. Great video, and nice approach and landing!
@@salcrocker894
There’s NO calculation…….it’s just stupid. What about the people in the house or the school or the church that he crashes into because he couldn’t see them ? Almost as irresponsible as the drunk driver in your example.
There are definitely risks in flying, even in perfect VFR conditions where unfortunate souls have crashed into homes, etc when their engine failed after takeoff in a city airport and were not high enough to make the turn back. As far as I am concerned doing a LIFR approach to minimums in a single engine plane is much safer than driving on an interstate at night. I have had a tractor trailer move into my lane and just about destroy the left side of my car when he did not see me at night. Then, in full daylight another car moved into my lane and fortunately no paint was exchanged. Neither of those two drivers were drunk. Many more examples exist.
According to savagecub we can only do approaches to minimums with multiengine planes. If that were the case then the FAA would have restricted the approaches accordingly.
Similar logic would apply to simply flying VFR over any large city or terrain, more so at night.
How likely is a pilot in a twin engine plane able to respond appropriately when focused on the approach as he is getting close to DA or MDA?
There are also multiple examples of twin engine planes crashing either on takeoff or landing after one engine failed and these were under VFR conditions. What do you think would happen to those pilots if the engine failure would happen in IMC on an approach close to the ground?
@@salcrocker894 I've had that happen. Pickup doing 90 going wrong way on interstate went right between me in the Kenworth and the white Honda next to me. Scared the crap out of her and she pulled over afterwards. We made just enough room for the guy to squeeze through.
I see you have a backup transponder. What is the thinking there, is it common to have a backup transponder for frequent IFR?
Hello Chris,
I do not think it is common practice to have a backup transponder for IFR. I have seen it in larger aircraft though. However, when I got the plane almost 4 years ago it came with two transponders. I replaced one of them with a GTX345 and kept the second one as an emergency backup and as a place to put the assigned squawk as a reminder.I didn't need the room in the panel. It is off all the time. Only had to use it once when the antenna to the GTX345 was not connected after an annual. It was VFR conditions in that flight. The backup transponder is non-ADSB.
@@chriskoppel3940 Got ya. I just started wondering. I'm going to update the panel in my old '62 Mooney and I have a couple extra older transponders so it had me questioning whether I should keep one around.
I have dual GI275s in my O2. Thought that you cad to keep all the other steam gauges in a certified aircraft. I guess not? Any reason why you didn’t keep them for redundancy?
According to the GI 275 STC you may remove all steam gauges except for the magnetic compass as long as you have the following:
- Top unit is ADAHRS (with or without AP option) configured as Primary ADI, and have the GMU11 (magnetometer) and GTP 59 (OAT probe) connected to it. The GTP 59 allows removal of turn coordinator.
- 2nd unit (bottom) is also an ADAHRS unit configured as either HSI/Standby ADI or an MFD/Standby ADI. [Mine is an MFD/Standby ADI]
- A manual reversionary switch to manually force the (HSI or MFD)/Standby ADI unit go to the ADI page and stay there. This in case the (MFD or HSI)/Standby ADI unit did not revert automatically in case the Primary ADI failed.
- Backup battery installed on each unit.
- A GPS source is also required, either an external Navigator or backup antenna.
I didn't keep my KI256 AI because it had failed. Allowed me to get rid of vacuum system and its weight. Got rid of HSI since the HSI pages in the MFD/Standby ADI are superior.. Got rid of turn coordinator because it was whining loudly telling me it was going to fail anytime. Did not keep ASI, Altimeter or VSI because they could be a point of failure in the pitot static system (more connections required, etc), be distracting and occupy space I could use otherwise. I repositioned my G4 engine monitor to the hole vacated by the altimeter. I also gained 16 lbs of useful load.
With both units having backup batteries and having superb lightning protection I actually considered them likely being more reliable as the steam gauges I had before. This because both the turn coordinator and HSI required the master switch being on. I also gained a backup AI. Having both units fail simultaneously in an IFR flight would be a very very low probability event. After more than 60 hrs flying with the new setup I do not miss the steam gauges at all. Can get all my info in a more focused scan. Can an Act of God occur? Of course, however I am comfortable flying with my current setup to protect me as much as I need.
Is that the HSI map page that is displayed on your HSI in the beginning part of the video? Then later did you switch it to the basic HSI or does it do that automatically once you are on the approach?
You are right. HSI Map page first which I manually changed to HSI page later. I like to take off w the HSI Map page because I have terrain and traffic and can also change HDG and Course. I can also zoom in/out manually or set to auto-zoom. I prefer manual zoom.
Nice approach but I don't think your efforts to get the A/P to capture the GS were a good idea inside the FAF. Better and safer to hand fly at that point or if you had to, miss the approach and revisit it.
JF CFII
Good point and I actually hand flew it by using CWS (Control Wheel Steering) which disables the AP until I saw the capture on the KFC 150 display. Used the AP thereafter. I did say that may have to hand fly it down if I got no capture. I had a caption on the screen that I was using CWS as well.
Thank you for your advice.
Are you sure your autopilot had captured the glideslope ? The little magenta diamond did not change into a chevron (min. 18:30 and 19:05..)
Wonderful flight and very interesting and capable setup, thinking about getting this myself.
Great question Erik!
1,000% positive it did capture glidepath. The solid magenta diamond is depiction for glidepath in an LPV approach. Open magenta chevron depicts an LNAV+VNAV approach. Green solid diamond depicts glideslope in an ILS. I was flying an LPV approach.The vertical guidance indicator with diamond showed up when I was turning inbound on final approach course and the 530W indicated LPV in its lower left corner. The autopilot GS light came on when it actually captured it. I could have have hand flown it with the indicators though.
The lower GI 275 is configured as a HSI or ADI? How many map functions do you have on the lower GI 275?
The lower 275 is configured as MFD / Standby ADI. It means I get all the functions (pages) of an MFD as well as ADI and will automatically switch to ADI and stay there if the top unit fails. Top unit is ADAHRS +AP.
I get two full map pages: HSI Map as well as the MAP page that allows for panning in addition to zooming in/out. Other specific (single function) map pages in the MFD are traffic, terrain, SXM weather, FIS-B weather, and stormscope. Stormscope page is only for certain models of stormscopes.
The HSI Map and Map page allow for user configurable features to be displayed such as traffic, terrain, weather, SUA, airways (Lo and high), etc. The other specific map pages also are user configurable.
It is a very versatile unit!
Nice video Chris. Thinking of going dual 275 in my Tiger. Do you find the synthetic vision useful at all?
Thank you Wolficom!
I definitely find SVT useful. The best part is the Flight Path Indicator which is very useful on an approach.
Which electronics had the female voice that said, “minimums” ?
The GI 275. I presume it would be the top Primary ADI where I set the minimums. The bottom 275 ADI page should also have the option to set minimums (although have not tried that) but not sure which is the one that actually generated the voice.
Notice how complicated it is to enter approach minimums on the ADI (09:15 in the video). Chris does it very nicely, but the UI is not good. If under stress (not unusual during approach) it is very easy to get it wrong. Also, once set, there is no quick way to check whether you have set the minimum altitude correctly. Compare with how easy it is to set the altitude bug. This need to be improved on the otherwise very well thought out GI275 system.
Good point henrikvr. The GI275 has a ton of features and unfortunately because of its size it is unable to display all of them at the top level. The screen would be completely cluttered otherwise. It is like trying to put 10 lbs of s$%#tuff into a 5 lb bag!
After having entered minimums at different phases of flight I have decided that once I am told by ATC to "expect" a particular approach I will load the minimums at that time rather than wait till later. That way I do it in a hopefully non-stressful phase of the flight.
@@chriskoppel3940 Thank you for the response. I just want to add that I have now discussed this with the tech director of the leading avionics installer in my country. He agrees that the UI has an obvious room for improvement in this specific area and he is bringing the subject to his half-yearly tech meetings with Garmin. They do not like to upgrade their certified software too often as this is a very involved process, but he expects the issue to be taken seriously, so maybe one day we will se an improvement.
While improving the DA adjustment should be straightforward software-wise, I agree that the little screen of the ADI is somewhat cluttered with information already. But marking the set DA as a bug on the altitude tape would not take up additional space, and should be fairly intuitive to interpret. Let’s see if someting happens.
Hi Chris. Thanks for this video. I am considering Dual GI-275's and noticed that you have TAS displayed in the 'Misc' field of the ADI. There are other options for this field such as wind, ground speed, and temp but can you display more than one item simultaneously - such as a box for TAS and a separate box showing wind?
Unfortunately you can only display one, not all four simultaneously. Since that flight i have settled on showing the wind vector. Have TAS in the standby ADI.
I have only shot 1 actual IFR approach on a complex aircraft endorsement flight. We didn't use autopilot and I was wringing wet with sweat. It really made me appreciate those guys who regularly have to fly a fast airplane solo to minimums - even with George.
Hand flying a LIFR approach is no easy task!!
Great video! Also considering to replace the AI and HSI with couple of these 275s. I am not sure whether I would remove the pitot/static instruments though but I can see why you did that (great location of the G4 BTW).
Thank you!
I now have a clean and uncluttered panel with very reliable instruments that have backup batteries as well. Really happy with it.
The G4 is now in my scan. It used to live in the bottom left corner where the USB ports now live. It was way out of the scan. Another reason to remove the rest of the six-pack. It made room to rearrange instruments.
I kept my pilot static. I tend to use the old airspeed in the pattern because it’s easy to see from the corner of my eye. In ifr i tend to use the 275
@@robertgary3561 We all need to be comfortable with our setup. Perfect for you of course!!
@@chriskoppel3940 I also kept the old vacuum gyro. I figured who ever complained they gave too many attitude indicators.
Hey there. Was doing research on the Garmin GI 275 and stumbled across your video. You based in Cannon creek?
Not based there but spend a fair amount of time there.
Thanks very much for posting this video. I have the 275's in my 172 with SVT, just finished my PPL and looking forward to getting my instrument rating next. I really enjoyed watching your video and will likely watch it a number of times more.
You are very welcome!
Thank you, for the procedures at FHB
I'm reminiscing of times past. I was partners with my friends on the feild 10 years ago.
Loved the flight ,made me feel like i was
comming home. I now home base at Haller Airpark Greencove Springs.
Glad the video brought good memories back!! May have known you back then. (?)
Nice approach.
Thank you!
Very cool, thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
What aircraft were you flying? Followed closely ,my last IFR flights were in the 70's, no glass panels.
Hi Mike,
I was flying a Mooney Ovation (M20R). Yep, a bit different with "glass in a hole"....