Hi Kev, Thanks for the comment my friend. It's always tricky valuing the single highest graded. I'll have to think about the 10x rule...certainly applies here.
*_Depending on how many times people have held this 9.9 slab in their hands the past 20 years, if it has traded hands and sent in the mail, it might actually not be a "9.9" anymore; a book can easily shift in the case and get a slight bump._* *_But cracking this 9.9 and having it re-graded, or even pressed & dry cleaned and re-graded; to add in a modern slab and maybe a Pedigree or custom label or similar; is a $250,000 gamble._* *_I think this book might not be pressed, as that was "unknown" back then._* *_Also, in 2001: did CGC place the comic books in a mylar envelope and then encase the books; or is this book just floating in the case?_* *_I have 9.8's of this book and they have been under the microscope; they are 9.9's or better. It's a HIGH RISK sending them to CGC again and again for re-evaluation; they take ZERO RESPOSABILITY if the book gets damaged by their $15/an hour employees. It might return a 9.6. And CGC does not accept that they should second judge a given grade by them._* *_I think we will see HULK 181 at HA's auction this spring, or the auction closest around Hulk 181/Wolverine's 50th Birthday, and Deadpool 3's release starring the actor Hugh Jackman pretending to be the character he played named Wolverine; which is both 2024._* *_My starting bid will be $250,000, my max will be $500,000._* *ADDENDUM:* *_Just 1-2 weeks ago, a HULK 181 CBCS 9.8 sold for a mere $27,500 at ComicLink._* *_That is WAAAY too low/an additional $50,000 just for the CGC logo shows this is wrong._* *PS* *_ComicLink sold a CGC 9.8 of HULK 181 in October 2022 for $146,000._*
I think the majority of commenters are with you: keep the 9.9 in its slab! Thanks for the CLINK note. Yeah, GPAnalysis -- unfortunately -- doesn't capture CLINK data.
This is very interesting! I own 1 of 2 CBCS 9.9s of Batman 118, 1:100 variant. There are no 9.9s on CGC. I have no idea what it might be worth. Also, I have the only two graded copies of a 1:10 HTF ratio comic. Both are CGC 9.8’s. Cover A had a print run of 4,866 (according to Cominchron), making this 1:10 have an estimated maximum of ~486 printed. I managed to independently secure both of them from two different collectors. Now that I have them both, I have no idea what I would sell them far! For the time being, I’m just going to set on them and enjoy being the sole occupant at the top of the hill! 👍🏾😀
Hi Kenny. Cool books and congratulations. So tough to value the rare stuff. I'm a golden age guy, primarily. Sometimes only a single copy at any grade sells in a year, so it's always a wild extrapolation game when pricing. And hey...if the book bring you joy, no shame in tucking it away for a few years or decades!
That's what up bro! Thanks for your follow-up. Yeah, it's a favorite of mine. I have a couple of high grade raws as well. I'll definitely keep track of how it trends over time. 🙂 @@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842
I don’t know about your 1:10 ratio variant, but your Batman 118 1:100 CBCS 9.9 isn’t worth much. You can get a CGC 9.8 of that book for about $40-$50. So a 9.9 might be worth a couple hundred. It’s just not a key or sought after book, or sought after variant. And on top of that, it’s going to go for less being CBCS. So definitely wouldn’t hold onto it thinking you’re getting a big pay day someday 😂.
This was an entertaining and insightful presentation, Keston. Interestingly, I felt it would be about 500K--I truly believe current macroeconomic conditions would negatively impact the book's potential value--at auction. In July of 2023, on a bad day, 500K...700K on a good day.
Alex! I hear ya. Tough to know. The macro-economic winds blow at different speeds at different altitudes. Would they suppress high-end bidders under a million?
Great analysis and I think the 1-1.2 mill is about right or pretty close to it. 150k back in 2011 is a lot of money for a comic, 12 years later and it’s still the lone single copy. In my experience, some 9.9s have gone for 20x the price of a 9.8 at times for a highly sought after book (think NM98, Spider-Man 4, new teen titans 44, secret wars 8 to name a few that I’ve watched recently). And those have had plenty of other counterparts, and even higher with a 10.0. So this hulk 181 9.9 as the lone copy would certainly break that estimate easily for such a coveted book. I own a 9.8 of it, but it isn’t my pride and joy, a 9.9 of asm300 is my most cherished book
Thanks Tiker. I appreciate your shining light on the ultra-high grade world of more modern books. (I'm mostly a golden age guy.). Congrats on the 181, 9.8...and the 9.9 asm 300! (wow). BTW. When I was a kid, I picked up every issue of ASM from 279 to 298 then picked it back up at 301. UGGHHH. Ended up getting an ASM copy around 2006 though.
It’s seemingly well documented that this isn’t a 9.9 anymore. I mean it still is on the census, but according to long time cgc boardies/dealers this book has been affected over the years in the case and likely would not grade a 9.9 if regraded. From what I’ve heard them say, you’ll never see this at auction because the grade’s been tainted due to the added defects.
My fear is that you reholster and because grading standards hVe changed over time, your 9.9 gets docked, down to a 9.8. I agree though, this is a $1 mill book
Hi Martin, Good question and its tricky. I'm not a signature series guy, so I don't have a definitive answer for you. I know that some signatures are worth more than others, and I'm guessing the bump in price a signature affords also differs by grade. The best advice I can give you is to subscribe to GPAnalysis. They provide good data on universal, signature series, and purple label books. If you have a 9.8 hulk 181 or are thinking about purchasing a book of this magnitude then the cost of GPAnslysis or similar tool is negligible relative to such a big book.
Since it was grade in 2001, the strictness of grading comes into question. Like Ben stated, is it really a 9.9. If it was resubmitted would it retain the grade or get bumped to a 9.8 or a 9.6. I personally do not believe it would break a million dollars. I believe it would be about 3 times tge value of a 9.8. Since its a bronze age book with plenty of copies floating around, even with such a high grade, I imagine people would probably rather invest in multiple copies in a 9.8 instead of a 9.9 unless they just want the rarity and can waste the money. You projected it to sell for over a mil. How many 9.8 copies could you buy with a mil? What would be the better investment?
Hi Roy. Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Yeah, I do think about that grading in 2001. On the other hand, many old time collectors will swear that the books in the old holders were graded more harshly than more recent books. It's certainly an interesting book to speculate on.
People who purchased Hulk 181 when it came out most likely never had it in cardboard and plastic. Protection of comics didn't really kick off until the late '80s. Some of these submissions be suspect especially for early 60's - 80's at 8.5 or higher
Hi Terrence, thanks for the comment. Yeah….Interesting question. I did a little research and found out that some folks were starting to bag and board as long ago as the ‘70s (in poly bags). Gerber did not introduce Mylar bags until 1979 and it took years before Mylar bags were adopted more widely. Anyhow, my guess is that most hulk 181s were not initially bagged and boarded in 1974 but some percentage were…and many of these are likely the copies that survive today in high grade.
Great video as always, but I tried another comparable. The highest sale for a 181 in 9.8, in 2011, was 15K. The highest sale for a same issue in 2023? 78K, making it a roughly 5X increase since 2011. Therefore, 150K in 2011 should go for $750K, which matches up with my gut when I first started watching. I thought 500K would be the starting point for serious bidders, but I could see it being a 1M comic. 750 is smack dab in the middle.
Hi Matt. Thanks for taking the time to comment and for looking into the numbers. Yeah, I didn't want to bore people with the details...but you bring up a good point. How exactly you craft the methodology makes a big difference. For example, from GPAnalysis there's only one sale of a 9.8 in 2011 ($13,500). It's also about the median for the 11 total sales in 2010 and 2012. For 2023, I went for the 12 month average (about 90k) b/c there's only the one 72k recent sale on GPAnalysis and I wanted to have more data. Using a different tool that perhaps picks up other sales and sticking to 90 month average would come up with a figure differing by hundreds of thousands. Yikes!
Hey what’s up this is Bob in Connecticut yes, this book sold once before. It’s the only 9.9. It would cost a fortune, even with the slow market.. I think everybody realizes fantastic four 48 has now surpassed Hulk 181 value wise it’s not even close. I have a 9.6 fantastic four 48. OK let’s take this book. It usually sells for more than $35,000.. on the other hand you can grab Hulk 181 9.6 right now for under $20,000. One of those just sold for $18,500.. about a year and a half ago Hulk 181 9.8 sold for $135,000 on Comic Link right now you can get this book for $60,000 maybe a little more on the other hand if you want fantastic four 48 9.8 you are talking $80,000 plus. There’s no comparison anymore fantastic four has kicked Wolverines ass.
Hi Bob. that's interesting. Good points. Hadn't thought about putting those books head to head. It seems Wolvie was ahead until about the last year. The Covid-19 bubble burst and down went 181. It seems that ultra-high-grade copies of FF48 have been relatively immune so far to the bubble burst. Lower grades not so much. FYI...In 9.6 and 9.8, Hulk 181 is about 3x more prevalent than FF48. Good to hear from you, my friend!
Hey, this is Bob and Connecticut. Of course whoever owns this 9.9 I hope he doesn’t work for a living because he’s a wealthy individual if he ever sells the book. But let’s take present sales in the last year or so fantastic four 48 will sell for more than Hulk 181 in most grades.Hulk 181 9.8 sold over a year ago Comic Link for $135,000. Right now you can buy this for a little more than $60,000. . On the other hand, if you try to get a fantastic four. 48 9.8 you will have to pay much more than. the Hulk 181.
HI Rocket! An AF15 at a 9.4 would be close, I think. That's a good question. Probably the AF15 for me. I'm a Spider-man guy...but that would be a tough decision. How about you?
Spider-Man is far more iconic than Wolverine. According to the CGC census there are four Hulk 181's for every AF15. The four 9.6 AF15's are each more valuable than the single 9.9 Hulk 181. My 1.5 AF15 is more valuable to me than my 9.0 Hulk 181.
Hi David. Yeah...it's interesting in these ultra-high grades. The reality is that within any grade, there is a distribution -- a low copy of a 9.8 to a high quality 9.8 for example. So, is this 9.9 qualitatively different than the best 9.8s??? Thanks for commenting my friend!
Think of it more like original art. Also at that level there is a lot of bragging rights. This goes for $3 million. A collector would rather own this than that original art page from Secret Wars 8 that went for that absurd number.
Hi Steven. I edited out part of the video where I gave a bigger range on the book. Perhaps if investors were really spooked about the market, then 800k might be the floor but the ceiling...that was much tougher to guess. In my mind, I was thinking about some of the crypto millionaires trying to diversify. I thought 2M might be the max...but you bring up a good point. Yes, i would take the 9.9 over the SW8 art. Thanks for commenting!
@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 I enjoy your more original content that speaks to me: as I’ve debated my buddy about what this 9.9 would go for, owned a New Mutants 98 9.9, and love the big auctions. I made a big trade recently that I know where your heart would lie. I traded my perfectly centered White Page 9.8 Amazing Spider-man 129 and a White Page 9.8 Amazing #194 for a White Page 9.0 Batman 16. Who won that trade?
Well done!! Now if the owner would just put it up for sale 😅
Hi Mazzter. My pleasure. Yeah, that small detail 🙂
I have a copy of this comic. I just need to get it graded.
That 9.9 designation is so incredibly special. Also, the old label goodness. I’d love to see it go for $1.2M.
Thanks brother. Gotta love old label goodness.
I think it would be a million, 9.9s usually go for 10x the 9.8 price, so 800k-1.1 million
Hi Kev, Thanks for the comment my friend. It's always tricky valuing the single highest graded. I'll have to think about the 10x rule...certainly applies here.
What's up K ! Great Show, as always ! Take care. Peace
Thanks SVP! Always good to see you.
*_Depending on how many times people have held this 9.9 slab in their hands the past 20 years, if it has traded hands and sent in the mail, it might actually not be a "9.9" anymore; a book can easily shift in the case and get a slight bump._*
*_But cracking this 9.9 and having it re-graded, or even pressed & dry cleaned and re-graded; to add in a modern slab and maybe a Pedigree or custom label or similar; is a $250,000 gamble._*
*_I think this book might not be pressed, as that was "unknown" back then._*
*_Also, in 2001: did CGC place the comic books in a mylar envelope and then encase the books; or is this book just floating in the case?_*
*_I have 9.8's of this book and they have been under the microscope; they are 9.9's or better. It's a HIGH RISK sending them to CGC again and again for re-evaluation; they take ZERO RESPOSABILITY if the book gets damaged by their $15/an hour employees. It might return a 9.6. And CGC does not accept that they should second judge a given grade by them._*
*_I think we will see HULK 181 at HA's auction this spring, or the auction closest around Hulk 181/Wolverine's 50th Birthday, and Deadpool 3's release starring the actor Hugh Jackman pretending to be the character he played named Wolverine; which is both 2024._*
*_My starting bid will be $250,000, my max will be $500,000._*
*ADDENDUM:*
*_Just 1-2 weeks ago, a HULK 181 CBCS 9.8 sold for a mere $27,500 at ComicLink._*
*_That is WAAAY too low/an additional $50,000 just for the CGC logo shows this is wrong._*
*PS*
*_ComicLink sold a CGC 9.8 of HULK 181 in October 2022 for $146,000._*
I think the majority of commenters are with you: keep the 9.9 in its slab! Thanks for the CLINK note. Yeah, GPAnalysis -- unfortunately -- doesn't capture CLINK data.
This is very interesting! I own 1 of 2 CBCS 9.9s of Batman 118, 1:100 variant. There are no 9.9s on CGC. I have no idea what it might be worth. Also, I have the only two graded copies of a 1:10 HTF ratio comic. Both are CGC 9.8’s. Cover A had a print run of 4,866 (according to Cominchron), making this 1:10 have an estimated maximum of ~486 printed. I managed to independently secure both of them from two different collectors. Now that I have them both, I have no idea what I would sell them far! For the time being, I’m just going to set on them and enjoy being the sole occupant at the top of the hill! 👍🏾😀
Hi Kenny. Cool books and congratulations. So tough to value the rare stuff. I'm a golden age guy, primarily. Sometimes only a single copy at any grade sells in a year, so it's always a wild extrapolation game when pricing. And hey...if the book bring you joy, no shame in tucking it away for a few years or decades!
That's what up bro! Thanks for your follow-up. Yeah, it's a favorite of mine. I have a couple of high grade raws as well. I'll definitely keep track of how it trends over time. 🙂 @@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842
I don’t know about your 1:10 ratio variant, but your Batman 118 1:100 CBCS 9.9 isn’t worth much. You can get a CGC 9.8 of that book for about $40-$50. So a 9.9 might be worth a couple hundred. It’s just not a key or sought after book, or sought after variant. And on top of that, it’s going to go for less being CBCS. So definitely wouldn’t hold onto it thinking you’re getting a big pay day someday 😂.
Great analysis/ price prediction ✊🫡
Appreciate the kind words, David.
This was an entertaining and insightful presentation, Keston. Interestingly, I felt it would be about 500K--I truly believe current macroeconomic conditions would negatively impact the book's potential value--at auction. In July of 2023, on a bad day, 500K...700K on a good day.
Alex! I hear ya. Tough to know. The macro-economic winds blow at different speeds at different altitudes. Would they suppress high-end bidders under a million?
@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 Anything's possible. :)
Great analysis and I think the 1-1.2 mill is about right or pretty close to it. 150k back in 2011 is a lot of money for a comic, 12 years later and it’s still the lone single copy. In my experience, some 9.9s have gone for 20x the price of a 9.8 at times for a highly sought after book (think NM98, Spider-Man 4, new teen titans 44, secret wars 8 to name a few that I’ve watched recently). And those have had plenty of other counterparts, and even higher with a 10.0. So this hulk 181 9.9 as the lone copy would certainly break that estimate easily for such a coveted book. I own a 9.8 of it, but it isn’t my pride and joy, a 9.9 of asm300 is my most cherished book
Thanks Tiker. I appreciate your shining light on the ultra-high grade world of more modern books. (I'm mostly a golden age guy.). Congrats on the 181, 9.8...and the 9.9 asm 300! (wow). BTW. When I was a kid, I picked up every issue of ASM from 279 to 298 then picked it back up at 301. UGGHHH. Ended up getting an ASM copy around 2006 though.
Keston covering a new book 😮
This one is just outside my price range, Horvath! :-)
It’s seemingly well documented that this isn’t a 9.9 anymore. I mean it still is on the census, but according to long time cgc boardies/dealers this book has been affected over the years in the case and likely would not grade a 9.9 if regraded. From what I’ve heard them say, you’ll never see this at auction because the grade’s been tainted due to the added defects.
Thanks for sharing Rolo. I hope that rumor isn't true.
I’ve read some accounts that the 9.9 suffered from shaken comic syndrome, which would explain why it has never been reholdered.
Interesting. I hadn't heard that before. Thanks for commenting ironmainiac.
@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 I came across it on the cgc message boards. Of course, I hope it isn’t true. Would be tragic.
Imagine if that case got damaged...
Then resubmit and they give you a 9.8 or even a 9.6.
😬
Hi MB! Yeah,...very scary...
My fear is that you reholster and because grading standards hVe changed over time, your 9.9 gets docked, down to a 9.8. I agree though, this is a $1 mill book
Hi Ben. Yeah...I agree that's one of the hardest thing to do for 3rd party graders: being consistent across time.
I would use Captain America 101 and that ratio between the 9.8s and that single 9.9
Hi Ben. Thanks for commenting. Good idea!
I would estimate it at Priceless (or $1 million +) :)
I almost named the video, "how to price the priceless." :-)
I have a question. How much this comic book, 9.8, signed by Roy Thomas, would sell for?
Hi Martin, Good question and its tricky. I'm not a signature series guy, so I don't have a definitive answer for you. I know that some signatures are worth more than others, and I'm guessing the bump in price a signature affords also differs by grade. The best advice I can give you is to subscribe to GPAnalysis. They provide good data on universal, signature series, and purple label books. If you have a 9.8 hulk 181 or are thinking about purchasing a book of this magnitude then the cost of GPAnslysis or similar tool is negligible relative to such a big book.
Since it was grade in 2001, the strictness of grading comes into question. Like Ben stated, is it really a 9.9. If it was resubmitted would it retain the grade or get bumped to a 9.8 or a 9.6. I personally do not believe it would break a million dollars. I believe it would be about 3 times tge value of a 9.8. Since its a bronze age book with plenty of copies floating around, even with such a high grade, I imagine people would probably rather invest in multiple copies in a 9.8 instead of a 9.9 unless they just want the rarity and can waste the money. You projected it to sell for over a mil. How many 9.8 copies could you buy with a mil? What would be the better investment?
Hi Roy. Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Yeah, I do think about that grading in 2001. On the other hand, many old time collectors will swear that the books in the old holders were graded more harshly than more recent books. It's certainly an interesting book to speculate on.
People who purchased Hulk 181 when it came out most likely never had it in cardboard and plastic. Protection of comics didn't really kick off until the late '80s. Some of these submissions be suspect especially for early 60's - 80's at 8.5 or higher
Hi Terrence, thanks for the comment. Yeah….Interesting question. I did a little research and found out that some folks were starting to bag and board as long ago as the ‘70s (in poly bags). Gerber did not introduce Mylar bags until 1979 and it took years before Mylar bags were adopted more widely. Anyhow, my guess is that most hulk 181s were not initially bagged and boarded in 1974 but some percentage were…and many of these are likely the copies that survive today in high grade.
Great video as always, but I tried another comparable. The highest sale for a 181 in 9.8, in 2011, was 15K. The highest sale for a same issue in 2023? 78K, making it a roughly 5X increase since 2011. Therefore, 150K in 2011 should go for $750K, which matches up with my gut when I first started watching. I thought 500K would be the starting point for serious bidders, but I could see it being a 1M comic. 750 is smack dab in the middle.
Hi Matt. Thanks for taking the time to comment and for looking into the numbers. Yeah, I didn't want to bore people with the details...but you bring up a good point. How exactly you craft the methodology makes a big difference. For example, from GPAnalysis there's only one sale of a 9.8 in 2011 ($13,500). It's also about the median for the 11 total sales in 2010 and 2012. For 2023, I went for the 12 month average (about 90k) b/c there's only the one 72k recent sale on GPAnalysis and I wanted to have more data. Using a different tool that perhaps picks up other sales and sticking to 90 month average would come up with a figure differing by hundreds of thousands. Yikes!
@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 lol all good. Im a number crunching nerd as well.😉
Hey what’s up this is Bob in Connecticut yes, this book sold once before. It’s the only 9.9. It would cost a fortune, even with the slow market.. I think everybody realizes fantastic four 48 has now surpassed Hulk 181 value wise it’s not even close. I have a 9.6 fantastic four 48. OK let’s take this book. It usually sells for more than $35,000.. on the other hand you can grab Hulk 181 9.6 right now for under $20,000. One of those just sold for $18,500.. about a year and a half ago Hulk 181 9.8 sold for $135,000 on Comic Link right now you can get this book for $60,000 maybe a little more on the other hand if you want fantastic four 48 9.8 you are talking $80,000 plus. There’s no comparison anymore fantastic four has kicked Wolverines ass.
Hi Bob. that's interesting. Good points. Hadn't thought about putting those books head to head. It seems Wolvie was ahead until about the last year. The Covid-19 bubble burst and down went 181. It seems that ultra-high-grade copies of FF48 have been relatively immune so far to the bubble burst. Lower grades not so much. FYI...In 9.6 and 9.8, Hulk 181 is about 3x more prevalent than FF48. Good to hear from you, my friend!
Hey, this is Bob and Connecticut. Of course whoever owns this 9.9 I hope he doesn’t work for a living because he’s a wealthy individual if he ever sells the book. But let’s take present sales in the last year or so fantastic four 48 will sell for more than Hulk 181 in most grades.Hulk 181 9.8 sold over a year ago Comic Link for $135,000. Right now you can buy this for a little more than $60,000. . On the other hand, if you try to get a fantastic four. 48 9.8 you will have to pay much more than. the Hulk 181.
Would you take that 9.9 copy or an AF15 of the same monetary value? (What AF15 grade would that be?)
🤔 id rather have a 7.0 AF15 over a 9.9 181, interesting thought experiment
HI Rocket! An AF15 at a 9.4 would be close, I think. That's a good question. Probably the AF15 for me. I'm a Spider-man guy...but that would be a tough decision. How about you?
@@horvathsogranfume658 I mean I can't argue with what you personally want... but that would be a horrible financial decision lol
@@stevenloube6784 thats right, u cant, thanks for commenting tho
Spider-Man is far more iconic than Wolverine. According to the CGC census there are four Hulk 181's for every AF15. The four 9.6 AF15's are each more valuable than the single 9.9 Hulk 181. My 1.5 AF15 is more valuable to me than my 9.0 Hulk 181.
You would have to get it reholdered and also prove to me it's better looking than any 9.8 graded before I even consider to buying it at any price.
Hi David. Yeah...it's interesting in these ultra-high grades. The reality is that within any grade, there is a distribution -- a low copy of a 9.8 to a high quality 9.8 for example. So, is this 9.9 qualitatively different than the best 9.8s??? Thanks for commenting my friend!
*_My starting bid will be $250,000._*
Think of it more like original art. Also at that level there is a lot of bragging rights. This goes for $3 million. A collector would rather own this than that original art page from Secret Wars 8 that went for that absurd number.
Hi Steven. I edited out part of the video where I gave a bigger range on the book. Perhaps if investors were really spooked about the market, then 800k might be the floor but the ceiling...that was much tougher to guess. In my mind, I was thinking about some of the crypto millionaires trying to diversify. I thought 2M might be the max...but you bring up a good point. Yes, i would take the 9.9 over the SW8 art. Thanks for commenting!
@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 I enjoy your more original content that speaks to me: as I’ve debated my buddy about what this 9.9 would go for, owned a New Mutants 98 9.9, and love the big auctions.
I made a big trade recently that I know where your heart would lie. I traded my perfectly centered White Page 9.8 Amazing Spider-man 129 and a White Page 9.8 Amazing #194 for a White Page 9.0 Batman 16. Who won that trade?
Hi Steven. You, with the golden age, obviously :-)
resubmit that now and I 100% guarantee u it doesn't get the 9.9
Hi dumpsterbaby. I wonder what CGC's process is for making that tough call...to elevate a grail book up to a 9.9 or a 10.0. Thanks for commenting!
Does anyone know the serial number of this 9.9 comic?