To me, Ben Laude is the Levy Rozman (aka GothamChess) of classical music/classical piano. An objectively great talent in their respective fields but whose ability to communicate their appreciation and understanding is where they rise to the level of peerlessness
You and Garrick Ohlsson manage to be so engaging and affable in this video, it’s like stumbling onto a conversation between two good friends, settling into an easy chair, and just _listening in_ with fascination. (And I’m the guy in the comments who doesn’t know Chopin from chopped liver-just about _everything_ I’ve learned about Chopin, I’ve learned from this series. Learning that Chopin could be “so highly over-colored,” i.e., “lurid,” 23:10 somehow appeals to me but I don’t doubt that Chopin knew _exactly_ what he was doing.) All of which is to say if you’re trying to be high-brow and inaccessible and forbidding with this series, well, you’re totally failing.
Also the sound editing and cutting in and out of live playing and recording is next level. What a Herculean effort these podcasts/videos are! Such an amazing homage to Chopin.
I don't know about you but Garrick's insights on the second Impromptu made me realise I didn't know the piece at all. What a revelatory episode. Wow. Invaluable. And I can't stop smiling when watching 17:47. Oh my.
I always loved the F# major impromptu but I agree with you - Garrick revealed even more about its depth, or is it the way the music’s “depth” is a kind of topic itself that comes and goes, like he says bookended by casual conversation. I used to wonder about the “parade” passage, but no longer.
@@benlawdy absolutely. Let's hope the contestants are going to choose it more often in 2025 after listening to Garrick! And the "purple prose" moment! Extraordinary. Which is by the way another lesson of English for non-natives. After "scansion" from the episode no. 4! In the last edition of the competition Impromptus were picked 2 times each. In 2015 op. 29 was chosen 3 times, op. 36 just the same, op. 51 more: 4 times. But still very rarely. In Miami 2025 only 4 people decided to include them in their repertoire. Oliver Moore op. 29 in the 3rd round (he is the only one studying with Garrick himself it seems! The bass player playing off-beat guaranteed at least once then!). Anthony Ratinov (studying with Robert McDonald) op. 29 and op. 36 in the 2nd round. Natasha Wu (studying with Dang Thai Son) op. 51 in the 2nd round. And Adria Ye op. 29 and op. 51 in the 3rd (the student of Wha-Kyung Byun).
@@Zympans Gosh you're basically a one-man research team for me! I'll looking forward to meeting and hearing these wonderful young pianists in Miami in a few weeks.
@@benlawdy if you read carefully their bios, you may notice that Angeline Ma "credits Grigory Sokolov and Kate Liu, her musical idols, for her inspiration". You know, just casually, Sokolov and none other than Kate haha. That's basically what I have been trying to make critics and other music lovers to realise for years: no recordings notwithstanding, Kate's music has big impact on the young pianists, whether we see it or not. Let her not playing much in public not mislead you.
I agree to a point. He has a well-rounded approach to every individual piece of Chopin’s. That’s not to say that an individual pianist might play the same work better, but taken as a whole… you may be right.
You gentlemen have inspired me to start practicing piano again. Great insight, humor and demonstration of love for Chopin’s eternal music. Thank you both.
Ben, I was also a late comer to this music -- around age 47. Yes, Garrick is right about the pop tune. My mother-in-law enjoyed it -- would request it. "I don't know about that practicing, but I love it when you play 'Im always chasing rainbows." God bless her. Great show, Ben.
Never thought much of the Impromptus until this episode. Garrick Ohlsson discussion/analysis on the F#sharp Impromptu was eye-opening and revelatory. Can’t wait for the Polonaises…Thank you Ben! 👍🙂
I hope that one day you would consider a labour of love such as this for Medtner, a truly underrated composer. I can just imagine how well his music would be explicated with your deliberation.
@@goflowjoe maybe not a whole Medtner podcast. But I married into a family of Medtner evangelists and play some myself. There will be a video or two eventually
Greatest podcast ever! Once this series comes to an end you should seriously consider doing another one… Beethoven’s piano sonatas… Rachmaninoff’s Concertos, sonatas, etude tableaux, and preludes… maybe even one dedicated to lesser known composers that deserve recognition… just suggestions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I only new about the famous fantaisie impromptu, the other 3 are very magnificent and relaxing pieces. Thanks to Garrick Ohlsson and you for this content!
This is gonna be another fabulous episode. What a wonderful introduction. And I can’t wait to hear from Gabriela and Noam. You’ve really made this a labor of love - with the connections to the perfect artists in every episode. You continue to deliver! Now, if we could just get the haters to mind their own business.
One thing that is UNIQUE about Chopin's music is how - more than ANY other composer - it seems to be born out of tactile intelligence. Obviously his "inner ear" guided his melodic sense, like any other composer - but it seems to have been guided by his fingers. I think about it this way - Chopin had the smartest and most creative fingers of all time. He had the talent to be capable of composing away from the piano but more than any other composer - I think he realized the value of simply letting music flow from his FINGERS. Nowhere is that more evident than in his amazing Impromptus which seem like an homage to the very creative process which inspired ALL of his works! The tactile pleasure from Chopin's works is something that isn't really equalled elsewhere - this is a part of the reason pianists love playing it so much.
You've got a very good point there! At a certain time in my life ( playing some years the piano ) I found out, that I'm playing at my best only, when my ears and my fingers are well connected together with my ears actually leading the motions of the fingers. For this kind of playing you need already a conception of the musical subtleties in your mind. Once you've found this out, you actually start to hear it in very good interpretations of great performers! So it's not only muscle memory ( especially young people learn mostly this way, which Ben Laude described so humorously at the beginning of the video : I was a lumberjack ), but it feels like a perfect harmony of playing and listening to yourself at the same time. Chopin must have had similar feelings, because his music itself seems to "ly in the fingers", similar to Mozart and very different to late Beethoven, Brahms etc.
Garrick is so engaging - would have love to have studied piano with him in my younger days...hell, I would love to hear his critique of my playing now!
@@Daniel_Zalman my pronunciation is slowly evolving to be a fully-Polish “Fryderyk” and a fully-French “Chopin” by Episode 16. Here in Episode 8, I’m still stuck somewhere in Texas between Paris and Fredericksburg.
the impromptu number 2 is my favorite, but only while played by Kissin, he's the only one who understands and applies the task of keeping the beautiful inertia that was building up, on the arpegios version. Literally everyone else just hard cuts to that part and it looses all inertia
Great insights. Love his rubato playing. I feel very silly that I have lately been playing the Beethoven but never noticed the quote. It might explain how my fingers kind of knew it automatically though... The words I like for three against four are - Bach Chopin Brahms 'n Liszt.
@ Thank you, Ben. I got 2 tickets for me and my friend for Final Part 2 on Sunday, 12th of January at 3. Hope to see you there. I want to deliver my humble donation for your patreon? (Don’t know the word and how to spell it).
This impromptu no.2 is very much like the second movement of the Sonata Opus.35 no.2, could have commented on that, I'm commenting on this now because I just listened to the Sonata and it reminded me.
The Impromptus of Chopin are doubtlessly musical pearls and even for medium gifted pianists technically playable. I totally agree with both of you, being the F# - major Impromptu an especially charming and good crafted masterpiece. It's Chopin at his best, which doesn't depend on the length of a piece ( I think of the late Ab - major Etude dedicated to Moscheles or of course of several pieces of the Preludes ). Garrick Ohlsson brings out the most interesting secret moments of this wonderful piece of music. Only Chopin could write such a non - modulation from D/G leaving out the obvious, but kind of boring C7 to F : I don't know at any moment of those two bars, where this might lead to. The trick seems to be, that he just freely introduces the upper f, being not so sure himself, where to go to and finally falling into place the "wrong" way, taking the f just as the new key. Jazz pianists do sometimes similar things, when they change a turnaround pattern ( back to the chorus ) not using the "regular" progressions - including the well known substitutes, but totally different 7th - chords, which works astonishingly well! Jazz musicians learned a lot by listening to the great classical musicians, especially harmonically. I like Garrick's crystal clear playing of the fast passages with the right hand ( very impressive too the recording of Sauer, whom I thought of like living in the 19th century ). Btw does Chopin quite often compose a right - handed second part to the melody like in the Gb major Impromptu ( Berceuse, Barcarolle already in the intro ), but he doesn't use always the exactly same composing principles, which is really interesting when studying his music. Thank you both for opening up a whole (new) world for everybody, who is playing and listening to Chopin.
I had never heard the third. Thank you. Will study. The Ab has special meaning to me when, 2 and a half years into my studies, my teacher, for the first time EVER, spoke while I was playing to say quietly, "That's it. That's the sound I've been trying to teach to you." I lost it. Grueling, tear-drenched 3 hour lessons every week and I did it, joined the lineage. Do you like Joplin or Nazareth?
Ben, no. Not everyone sounds better through a practice room door. Ha! Your point is valid and I feel should be explored. Classical singer here sharing that feeling. Did you psych yourself out? Have you ever seen that from others? Especially big competition winners?
Also, can any one confirm the similarity between Brahms’ die Mainacht and the 2nd impromptu in f sharp? I actually collaborated on die Mainacht written in f sharp major lol so the similarity was very noticeable
@@benlawdywe have Clara to thank for that 🙂↕️also, it’s interesting how die Mainacht also ends up going to triplets when the main theme comes back! It’s interesting how composers unknowingly (or not) tip their hats off to one another
@ it’s anyone’s guess, but Klindworth was also a composer, and this flourish fits very well with the character of the piece and is also similar to other authentic variants by Chopin that imitate a “singer’s cadenza”. My guess is the ossia was composed by Klindworth
@ wild that 19th century editors could just make up notes. It’s kinda fun though. I didn’t know about the edition but I play a version of this flourish that I based on the Sauer recording.
Hi Ben. I love your channel. This comment has nothing to do with your video haha but I’m in love with Moszkowsky’s second concerto. Have you heard it? Do you know why there are no famous soloist playing it??
Ernst Oster should be credited with first identifying the Beethoven quotation in the Fantaisie-Impromptu. That was in 1947. But Oster did not merely identify the quotation. He also demonstrated much deeper connections between the Beethoven C#-minor sonata and the Fantaisie-Impromptu, and used those insights to help explain, among other things, why Chopin dd not publish the piece. The article was reprinted in Aspects of Schenkerian Theory, ed. David Beach (Yale UP, 1983). Oster was one of the great musical thinkers of the last century, more through his teaching than through publication, although each of his essays is wonderul and unique. (See, for example, his article on the Egmont Overture reprinted in the 1983 collection referenced above.)
Yes he points out the triplets at the beginning start on the same notes/same register as the moonlight 1st mvt. And of course the C# minor/Db/C# minor key scheme was first and most famously done in the moonlight
I wonder why nobody talks about Moschelles op 89 Impromptu when talking about the Fantasize Impromptu, I find these two pieces are closest than the Fantasise Impromptu is to Moonlight Sonata
If I’d had more time I would have mentioned it. It’s sometimes pointed at as another reason (along with the Moonlight) that Chopin may have kept the piece private. He took pride in his original ideas and probably regarded the Fantaisie-Impromptu as borrowing too much material from other composers.
@benlawdy Yes, but look at the part that preceded these scales and see if the melody doesn't resemble the Sonata's theme. I listened to this Sonata today and immediately remembered Impromptu No. 2 when I heard the first movement of the Sonata.The melody seems very similar to me, I can't say why, as I'm not a musicologist.But it's the same thing that happened to me with waltz no.5 and Etude number five, for some reason I find the melodies very similar and I don't know why, but in the case of waltz and Etude, besides the wrong note, there is something in this melodies that reminds me of something from the Christian harp.
I once heard the four Impromptus played by Kissin live in Stuttgart once and liked it very much but in the Pause/Break, that one guy said, he did not like the third impromptu and what's it doing there? I never felt that, I always liked that piece.
Are impromptus focused study pieces from the composer, or in a different perspectice, are they written after an idea develops after improvising freely (long enough to then begin the writing phase - and see it through)? Short: are they composed from improvising, or are they composed with an idea in mind with focused development of the idea(s)? What's your take?
He revised it in 1835 and that manuscript turned up in the 20th century. It has “improved” voicings in a number of places and the high point of the A section is slightly altered. I learned the earlier version and actually prefer it (I think the simpler figurations fit the music better somehow).
During the Sauer recording of the return of the A section, I’m actually showing the 1834 version again (since it’s what he’s playing). Both are from the Ekier edition on IMSLP.
There are two publications of the later version. One was edited by Arthur Rubinstein (G. Schirmer) and another edited by Maurice Hinson (Alfred Publications)
As a pianist, I can't play piano in my dreams. Nothing works correctly, all the note sound wrong, and it wakes me up 😆 Same with Rubik's cubes, or any sort of puzzles. They never make sense in my dreams.
Hi Ben. Is it possible to contact you again? Now you have left TB I've lost your email address and wasn't sure whether to send via Utah address. Thanks Andrew Australia
Great video! Firstly, I'd like to make a quick, insightful, remark about the Chopin new waltz - has anyone remarked upon a simple but telling point - the fact that the signature 'Chopin', being, as we know, faked - what does that tell us about the waltz? Simply this: that that person had a vested interest in alleging it to be Chopin's. Now - obviously he didn't think future ink analysis of the signature would find him out (200 years later). It's easier to forge a piece of music than a signature after all. How likely, then, is it that that person was NOT also the forger of the waltz (if it is a fake)? O.K. so now we realize that the forger of the signature is most likely the forger of the whole piece. Thus the whole piece is a fake. So only this needs to be done, Ben - they need to analyse the ink used in the signature and get a date. Was it around the same time as the piece was written? If so - we can safely say 'the whole piece is a fake' - SINCE WHO ELSE WOULD TRY AND FAKE THE SIGNATURE IF THEY HAD NOT ALSO FAKED THE MUSIC? If the signature is later / much later - then how would anyone have been clever enough to know that the 'Chopin waltz' was either really/possibly Chopin's (and then they can try and fake it with a signature)? Would he/she have been aware of all those nuances that are, after all, EXTREMELY similar to Chopin's style - aware enough to think "yes - I'll go and add by way of pretty good/ very good forgery - Chopin's name since the waltz has every sign of being his - even to the smallest detail; all it needs is his name and then I'll easily be able to claim it's by Chopin and make a few bucks in so doing?" I think you said in an earlier video that the waltz ink was from the period Chopin was writing waltzes (although the signature was not th6e same ink as the waltz). Can't they do the analysis on the signature ink to get an exact date? I know you said the ink used in the waltz itself was from his 'waltz period'. To recap - do you want to tell me that Chopin indeed wrote it - and then some / many years later - someone else found it who just HAPPENED to be a Chopin manuscript expert, and thought 'hey this is a Chopin! (or one very like a Chopin) - but - just to remove all doubt I'll forge his name on it'? Well forgive me if I find the suspense of my credulity to be an unobtainable matter regarding that particular point. Now that I have, I think, roundly proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the waltz is a fake - let me come to this impromptu video. You say that you don't think Chopin knew Schubert's impromptus - well I concur that he wouldn't have known them AS A SET OF FOUR. I am able to offer a concrete reason - Schubert's impromptus (either set of x4) would not have been published by the time Chopin wrote his first one. Obviously numbers 1 and 2 of d899 HAD BEEN published - but the fact that Chopin was to write exactly 4 (just like Schubert's sets) suggests strongly to me that it would be too much of a coincidence that he was to write the same number as Schubert. So Chopin probably didn't even know Schubert's d899 numbers 1 and 2, is what I mean. Although it is possible (especially since the fantasy impromptu would have been a 'fifth' - but there again, he wasn't intending on publishing it...) Finally, I would like to make a remark about the Fantasy Impromptu. The most interesting rendition I have heard is by Katsaris who brings out something I've never heard anyone else do - th-cam.com/users/shorts4JgpIJfCwW4 I'd like to add that I've never cared for this fantasy impromptu (or the g min ballade). Tiffany Poon does the best versions of both these pieces, in my opinion.
I’m surprised at the seeming disdain for the Fantasy Impromptu. Maybe it’s the speed at which it is sometimes played. Maybe it’s because it wasn’t published by Chopin. Maybe because it was seen as a gift to a student (how dare he). Or maybe because a slice apparently came from Beethoven. Maybe it’s best appreciated by adolescents. When I learned it as a teenager it perfectly expressed how I was feeling although not as much as Beethovens Appassionata or Chopins Revolutionary etude. Above all I suppose for me the Fantasy displayed some skills and was pretty to play to friends who weren’t into “that heavy classical music stuff.”
No disdain! I love the piece for what it is and I’m even playing it right now on a recital program. It does have a special quality to inspire especially young people and draw them into the wonders of classical piano. I have younger siblings and have played hundreds of pieces in front of them over the years, and yet it was the fantaisie impromptu that led my little brother to come up and ask me “what’s that???”
You have neglected tte mathematics of two against three and three against four. It’s what I call “musical fractions” and provides precise understanding of the placement of the notes with respect to each other. It is quite surprising where this turns up even outside of music. Moiré patterns and Leonardo daVinci s clock escapement mechanism are two that come to mind immediately
@@dougr.2398 it’s useful to consider (with 4 against 3, you can draw them out under 12), but ultimately in music they have to be felt without calculation.
@ They are only accurately felt “without calculation” a) when the calculation is in kinetic or muscle memory and b) when the right and left are balanced and are heard equally. Very few ever achieve that level of perfection, but it can be accomplished
Garricks playing is like a blank canvas, nothing more than written in the notes, a little bit of musicality just so it doesn’t sound too boring but absolutely void of personality character true great talent great emotion great artistry- perfect for demonstrating just what the notes are. You can hear it in his explanations, he just explains this and that is written, he feels nothing more than your average high schooler he just has the physique that allows him to play without trouble.
haha, Rossano plays Fantasie super entertainingly th-cam.com/users/liveAMYyrN5mSBY?si=A6Bh0zRmNEHFoONr&t=3591 to make it clear: it's not a thing to be re-visited often but rather to unwind yourself with once in a longer while. But it shows that the piece is arguably much weaker than the other Impromptus: it welcomes and accepts the addition of the rhythm section with open arms. To my ears it clearly benefits from the small spicing of the harmony and bass playing the melody. But ofc I may be saying something ridiculous xd
The term improviser always struck me as odd. That’s just what all musicians outside of (modern performers of) Classical music do. It goes without saying that musicians play music that is not written.
@@benlawdy Let's change this. I sure wish improvisation was emphasized when at conservatory. I since went hard into Jazz and my ear and musical fluency skyrocketed.
Nice video, and amusing too, but still very lumberjack-y … sorry Ben, no offense intended. Even Alan Walker admits, despite his quasi-universalist approach to Chopin, that Chopin’s music is an integral piece of his soul. Thus, there is no reason to discuss impromptus in an emotional vacuum (like in this episode). The Romantic era fostered a culture of emotional expressiveness, particularly in Poland, where male friendships were characterized by a uniquely tender and poetic language. These bonds, deeply rooted in Polish Romantic ideals, were often expressed in letters filled with heartfelt declarations and vivid imagery. Without this cultural framework, Chopin’s impromptus as we know them would have been much different or not at all. The emotional landscapes of these works echo the tenderness and honesty found in his letters, especially those to his closest friend, Tytus Wojciechowski. In Polish Romantic culture, friendships were infused with a sense of sacred connection. Men expressed affection openly, often using language that modern readers might misinterpret. Chopin’s letters to Tytus are filled with such expressions: "My dearest soul, why are you not here? Without you, everything is nothing." In another letter, Chopin wrote, "If I could only throw my arms around you, my dear friend, and tell you how much I miss you." These words reflect a deep, culturally normative bond rather than romantic love as understood today. In contrast, Chopin’s romantic relationships with women often carried a different tone, one marked by the complexities of love, passion, and societal expectations. His letters to Maria Wodzińska, with whom he was briefly engaged, were more restrained and shaped by propriety. For instance, Chopin wrote to her family about their relationship in formal and respectful terms, revealing little of the vulnerability found in his letters to male friends. His long and tumultuous relationship with George Sand was another significant influence on his life. Chopin’s letters to her reveal passion and conflict in equal measure. He once wrote: "You are my solace, my torment, my angel, and my despair." The language here is charged with intensity but lacks the pure, unguarded tenderness that characterizes his letters to Tytus. While Sand offered Chopin companionship and care, particularly during his declining health, their relationship often reflected the stormy dynamics of Romantic love. Chopin’s impromptus mirror the emotional openness of his friendships rather than the volatility of his romantic relationships. Their lyrical intimacy and improvisatory nature seem to echo the language of male friendship in Romantic Poland. For example, the tender middle section of the *Fantaisie-Impromptu* (Op. 66) evokes vulnerability and longing, akin to Chopin’s plea to Tytus: "You are in my heart, in my every breath." Similarly, the oscillation between playful and melancholic moods in the Impromptu No. 1 in A-flat major (Op. 29) reflects the complexities of close relationships-the joy and the sorrow intertwined. Polish Romanticism distinguished itself from its English, French, and German counterparts by embracing emotional vulnerability and affectionate language in male friendships. This cultural backdrop shaped Chopin’s identity and artistry. His letters provide a window into this ethos, and his impromptus offer faraway echoes of the same tenderness. **** Ben, you could ask Garrick, if he knew all that at the time of winning in Warsaw. If not, I will give up… maybe… or maybe this is a pece of information, which could help young pianists to actually understand what they are playing, and what for, (except for money and fame, of course). Thank you a lot for promoting Chopin and his music. PS. I don’t know if you know, but Alan is basically unknown in Poland even among specialists? Don’t know why? Don’t wary, we have one real Texan in the family, currently living I Warsaw.
Thank you as always for your insights on the emotional core to Chopin’s music. From what I’ve recorded with Garrick so far, I think you’ll be most satisfied with the Mazurkas episode where Garrick and I delve deeper into the meaning of the music. But even there we recognize that we’re a couple of Americans who were first and foremost drawn in by the purely aesthetic appeal of Chopin’s music, a level at which can be more than fulfilling for a lifetime. This is not to take away from the deeper meanings you articulate, but it’s only to speak to the way the music is able to communicate to people from all walks of life. Dare I suggest than even a young Polish child is first drawn to Chopin not because it’s the poetic voice of Poland’s historic national aspirations, but because it is beautiful. It captures the imagination. Only thereafter do they discover where they’re from and how much the music means, especially as a source of national identity. Similarly in making a podcast that attempts to draw in larger audiences, I try first and foremost to reveal the intrinsic beauty and genius designs found in Chopin. I would need another 30 hours to truly explore the emotional and historic depth you speak to, but at least in remaining episodes I hope to at least start digging in that direction. Meanwhile, I’m glad we have comment sections for dedicated observers like yourself to fill in the gaps!
@@benlawdy Definitely, you are absolutely right. Anyone with even a minimum feel for music gets instantly attracted to and enchanted by Chopin's melodies. These melodies are everywhere-in the right hand, in the left hand, in both at the same time. They are ever-present, flowing like a river of melodies. I am not a pianist at all, but through mere observation and feeling, I can understand how easily something can go 'wrong,' causing the piano to stop singing along those fragile lines and start sounding awkward or trivial. But that is probably a masterclass approach. In general, Chopin is as captivating as Paul McCartney. All the great pianists-Garrick Ohlsson, Pollini, Martha Argerich, Zimerman, Blechacz, Rubinstein, and recently Bruce Liu-they are the guardians of this fragile beauty. I don't know how they do it. It requires so much talent and soul that it is beyond the comprehension of any mortal listener. Every true master of their craft stands before three fundamental questions: What, how, and why? The last question is frequently the most complex one, so perhaps knowing the answers is not absolutely necessary, even though it may be interesting and illuminating. It must be extraordinarily difficult to play Chopin right, so I would guess that some people, seriously interested in doing so, would like to know why they need to endure the struggle. Perhaps knowing that their suffering is just a fraction of what the composer went through might give them deeper insight?
12:10 Had to look this word up but in case anyone else is wondering, he says "saccharine" quality. Was pleasantly surprised to hear this because that's been my own theory too - I always felt the middle section was overly sappy or sentimental, especially after multiple listenings, and I think that Chopin, even while he was alive, was resisting the image of being a sappy composer. When people dismiss Chopin for being too sentimental or girly, I just tell them to stop listening to the Fantasie-Impromptu and the famous nocturne.
Yeah I think this is another reason he didn’t publish it. This really seems meant only as a private gift for this particular baroness who probably melted over the middle section.
i'm highly skeptical of this theory of chopin consciously copying beethoven (for whatever reason, chopin was not a beethoven fan) and also of chopin keeping the piece private because of this. the main issue is, the series of notes in question are just not that organic to the piece. if chopin were aware of the sameness, he could have altered this run of notes relatively easily without materially affecting the piece. in most performances, they go by so quickly the listener has trouble discerning them very precisely, so an alteration would hardly have been fatal. i'm sure a computer analysis would find many more such cases of sameness in music history that are nothing more than parallel discovery. on a separate note, while the other impromptus are all lovely and deserve more attention, the fantasie-impromptu is certainly very beautiful and worthy.
@@Danny-rq5vn on the last point, I agree the fantaisie impromptu it beautiful and worthy - but I think that speaks for itself and there’s less need to defend one of the most popular piano pieces in history than there is to promote the (arguably grater merits) of the other three. It also seems by Chopin’s own standard he knew there were aspects of this piece that were less developed and more sentimental than what he typically signed off on in his published works. For me the similarity with the moonlight seems to be more than coincidental not only because of that one figuration, but because we know Chopin was teaching the moonlight sonata at the time (several references in the Eigeldinger book) and because there are other historic similarities between the two pieces, like Chopin’s use of the C# minor - Db major - C# minor key scheme, which he would soon champion but which for the first time and most famously occurs in Beethoven’s moonlight. Also, even though he conceals it in a different texture, on the printed page many casual observers would have noticed the verbatim figuration from one of Beethoven’s most popular sonatas. But even about the figuration alone, I’d be very curious about this hypothetical computer analysis. Of course this is much more than a scale or an arpeggios, it’s a distinctive figuration that (knowing the repertoire quite well) doesn’t appear much if at all in just that way in just that key. And since it’s not just 3 or 4 notes in a row, but dozens of identical notes in a row, I think a computer would say the likelihood of direct influence is high in that case. Or, to put it another way, if this isn’t prima facia evidence of influence, I’d like to know what is! Not lots of cases in music history with such direct note-for-note correspondence.
@@benlawdy this is a complicated question. obviously a computer just looking for identical sequences willl find lots of a scales and arpeggios, etc., that are not evidence of anything. in baroque music it would surely find lots of additional identical sequences that are not evidence of anything. so the software would need to be moderately sophisticated. but, to the main point, i guess i don't really understand the idea that it was a conscious quote: if chopin had wanted to pay homage to beethoven, he could have done a lovely variation on a lovely beethoven melody. this does not sound anything like paying homage because (a) the feeling is completely different and (b) the bit that is identical is not even a remotely significant melody of beethoven's. and if it is not paying homage, why do it? chopin surely could wrote hundreds of little bits just a beautiful as this, so it wasn't for lack of ability to come up with something on his own. perhaps there was unconscious copying. chopin did not feel a need to alter it because he didn't realize it was not original. or perhaps it was, as i said, simply parallel discovery of a delicate way to get from Point A to Point B musically. of course...i could be completely wrong :) but those are my thoughts.
@ yeah I don’t see it as an homage either. My thought is that he was playing with the material from the moonlight sonata, perhaps with a student he was teaching it to, or just by himself while playing through it, and in his insatiable creative/improvisatory state he ended up weaving that cadenza figuration into a sweeping fantasy (which also contains influences of a Moscheles pieces). That seems plausible, no? Then it ends up as a private gift, and he’s a bit reluctant to publish (both because he valued the privacy of gifts, and maybe because he knew he was playing around with some derived material). Seems believable to me, but whatever the story, I still think the notes speak for themselves and he didn’t just happen to write those notes in that key scheme without knowing about its relationship to this famous Beethoven sonata he also played and taught.
@@benlawdy i suppose if he was really teaching the moonlight at the same time he wrote this, i have to concede, there was likely least an unconscious copying. I'm curious about your opinion on a related topic. I noticed that the opus 72 no 1 nocturne opening melody is nearly identical (melodically, rhythmically, harmonically) to the song "A Day in the Life Of A Fool". I cannot find any reference online to the comparison or any claim that the songwrite, luis bonfa, took the melody from chopin. Thoughts? here's the sinatra version and then the nocturne (which I'm sure you know). th-cam.com/video/yDE0tu11ki8/w-d-xo.html. th-cam.com/video/vJpAIOFN5WQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Danny-rq5vn Interesting - I think in this case it's more of what our hypothetical AI would say is "coincidental." Stepping from the 3rd scale degree down to the leading tone and curling down to the 5 is a probable melodic option and the harmonic change underneath would also be the standard one. These kinds of overlaps are why we can "mashup" different styles and genres. That's my impression at first glance at least.
I know :/ I think this was the day we also recorded the etudes which went way over time. We stopped trying to record multiple episodes in one day after this…
@@matswessling6600 As I understand it, he was born 'Fryderyk' and changed his name to the French spelling upon fleeing for a combination of professional and political reasons. He was born "Fryderyk Chopin" and I like the combination of French and Polish since he body is buried in one country but his heart never left the other. But also, it really doesn't matter that much.
The full audio of Episode 8 is in the works and will be released VERY SOON, with 9 & 10 following close on its heels. Thanks for your patience!
To me, Ben Laude is the Levy Rozman (aka GothamChess) of classical music/classical piano. An objectively great talent in their respective fields but whose ability to communicate their appreciation and understanding is where they rise to the level of peerlessness
THE FORTISSIMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@implanetlol2715 But I am the fortississimo...
he sacrified THE CONCERTO
does that make Garrick Ohlsson = Magnus?
@@pugsnhogz more like Kasparov.
You and Garrick Ohlsson manage to be so engaging and affable in this video, it’s like stumbling onto a conversation between two good friends, settling into an easy chair, and just _listening in_ with fascination. (And I’m the guy in the comments who doesn’t know Chopin from chopped liver-just about _everything_ I’ve learned about Chopin, I’ve learned from this series. Learning that Chopin could be “so highly over-colored,” i.e., “lurid,” 23:10 somehow appeals to me but I don’t doubt that Chopin knew _exactly_ what he was doing.) All of which is to say if you’re trying to be high-brow and inaccessible and forbidding with this series, well, you’re totally failing.
Also the sound editing and cutting in and out of live playing and recording is next level. What a Herculean effort these podcasts/videos are! Such an amazing homage to Chopin.
I don't know about you but Garrick's insights on the second Impromptu made me realise I didn't know the piece at all. What a revelatory episode. Wow. Invaluable. And I can't stop smiling when watching 17:47. Oh my.
I always loved the F# major impromptu but I agree with you - Garrick revealed even more about its depth, or is it the way the music’s “depth” is a kind of topic itself that comes and goes, like he says bookended by casual conversation. I used to wonder about the “parade” passage, but no longer.
@@benlawdy absolutely. Let's hope the contestants are going to choose it more often in 2025 after listening to Garrick!
And the "purple prose" moment! Extraordinary. Which is by the way another lesson of English for non-natives. After "scansion" from the episode no. 4!
In the last edition of the competition Impromptus were picked 2 times each. In 2015 op. 29 was chosen 3 times, op. 36 just the same, op. 51 more: 4 times. But still very rarely.
In Miami 2025 only 4 people decided to include them in their repertoire. Oliver Moore op. 29 in the 3rd round (he is the only one studying with Garrick himself it seems! The bass player playing off-beat guaranteed at least once then!). Anthony Ratinov (studying with Robert McDonald) op. 29 and op. 36 in the 2nd round. Natasha Wu (studying with Dang Thai Son) op. 51 in the 2nd round. And Adria Ye op. 29 and op. 51 in the 3rd (the student of Wha-Kyung Byun).
@@Zympans Gosh you're basically a one-man research team for me! I'll looking forward to meeting and hearing these wonderful young pianists in Miami in a few weeks.
@@benlawdy if you read carefully their bios, you may notice that Angeline Ma "credits Grigory Sokolov and Kate Liu, her musical idols, for her inspiration". You know, just casually, Sokolov and none other than Kate haha. That's basically what I have been trying to make critics and other music lovers to realise for years: no recordings notwithstanding, Kate's music has big impact on the young pianists, whether we see it or not. Let her not playing much in public not mislead you.
@ that’s a nice combination of inspirations. And yeah, Kate’s had a big impact. Excited to release the interview I did with her!
Hi Ben,You have no idea how much I appreciate your presentations of Chopin's music with such excellent guests;thanks a million.
Garrick is a national treasure. Getting to hear him talk about pieces in depth like this is AMAZING
Garrick Ohlsson is probably the best interpreter of Chopin's music. Very nice to have him!
He is great, but surely not the best
I agree to a point. He has a well-rounded approach to every individual piece of Chopin’s.
That’s not to say that an individual pianist might play the same work better, but taken as a whole… you may be right.
It’s really hard to pick just one Chopin player.
I prefer K.Zimerman and Zlata Chochieva, and Michelangeli. GO is good also. And of course the very best Dai Tang Son.
You gentlemen have inspired me to start practicing piano again. Great insight, humor and demonstration of love for Chopin’s eternal music.
Thank you both.
I love Chopin!!
And who doesn't!
Wonderful composer purely for piano which had only recently been invented in his days
That’s the coolest shirt I’ve ever seen 😂
Ben, I was also a late comer to this music -- around age 47. Yes, Garrick is right about the pop tune. My mother-in-law enjoyed it -- would request it.
"I don't know about that practicing, but I love it when you play 'Im always chasing rainbows." God bless her.
Great show, Ben.
Ben, imo, this is TRULY your very best video to date - absolutely LOVE IT!
Never thought much of the Impromptus until this episode. Garrick Ohlsson discussion/analysis on the F#sharp Impromptu was eye-opening and revelatory. Can’t wait for the Polonaises…Thank you Ben! 👍🙂
Polonaises is going to be an EVENT!
2 against 3: hot cuppa tea. . . 3 against 4: pass the melted butter :)
They are useful aren’t they.
I was taught "nice cup of tea" and "kick the god damn bucket". Not sure what that says about my childhood.
I hope that one day you would consider a labour of love such as this for Medtner, a truly underrated composer. I can just imagine how well his music would be explicated with your deliberation.
@@goflowjoe maybe not a whole Medtner podcast. But I married into a family of Medtner evangelists and play some myself. There will be a video or two eventually
@@benlawdy Medtner evangelists...I love it! I'm assuming your spouse plays piano as well?
@@goflowjoe yes she is a brilliant pianist! And comes from a family of pianists.
Greatest podcast ever! Once this series comes to an end you should seriously consider doing another one… Beethoven’s piano sonatas… Rachmaninoff’s Concertos, sonatas, etude tableaux, and preludes… maybe even one dedicated to lesser known composers that deserve recognition… just suggestions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I only new about the famous fantaisie impromptu, the other 3 are very magnificent and relaxing pieces. Thanks to Garrick Ohlsson and you for this content!
This is gonna be another fabulous episode. What a wonderful introduction. And I can’t wait to hear from Gabriela and Noam. You’ve really made this a labor of love - with the connections to the perfect artists in every episode.
You continue to deliver! Now, if we could just get the haters to mind their own business.
I also put the second impromptu at the very top of Chopin's works. Thanks for a terrific episode.
One thing that is UNIQUE about Chopin's music is how - more than ANY other composer - it seems to be born out of tactile intelligence.
Obviously his "inner ear" guided his melodic sense, like any other composer - but it seems to have been guided by his fingers.
I think about it this way - Chopin had the smartest and most creative fingers of all time.
He had the talent to be capable of composing away from the piano but more than any other composer - I think he realized the value of simply letting music flow from his FINGERS.
Nowhere is that more evident than in his amazing Impromptus which seem like an homage to the very creative process which inspired ALL of his works!
The tactile pleasure from Chopin's works is something that isn't really equalled elsewhere - this is a part of the reason pianists love playing it so much.
Is that why Chopin’s études combined technical challenges with superb musical content? His melodic sense was guided by his fingers?
You've got a very good point there!
At a certain time in my life ( playing some years the piano ) I found out, that I'm playing at my best only, when my ears and my fingers are well connected together with my ears actually leading the motions of the fingers.
For this kind of playing you need already a conception of the musical subtleties in your mind. Once you've found this out, you actually start to hear it in very good interpretations of great performers!
So it's not only muscle memory ( especially young people learn mostly this way, which Ben Laude described so humorously at the beginning of the video : I was a lumberjack ), but it feels like a perfect harmony of playing and listening to yourself at the same time.
Chopin must have had similar feelings, because his music itself seems to "ly in the fingers", similar to Mozart and very different to late Beethoven, Brahms etc.
Can’t wait to see Fantasie in Fm covered
Loving the shirt!
Garrick is so engaging - would have love to have studied piano with him in my younger days...hell, I would love to hear his critique of my playing now!
When I was 8 years old, my mother gave me a 78rpm record of Moseiwitch playing the 3rd Chopin impromptu. It has influenced me for life.
Wow! Thanks Ben!
These guys dream in piano solos !
1:58 Free-Derrick Showpan?
@@Daniel_Zalman my pronunciation is slowly evolving to be a fully-Polish “Fryderyk” and a fully-French “Chopin” by Episode 16. Here in Episode 8, I’m still stuck somewhere in Texas between Paris and Fredericksburg.
😂
Did you mean Derek shows a free pan?😂
the impromptu number 2 is my favorite, but only while played by Kissin, he's the only one who understands and applies the task of keeping the beautiful inertia that was building up, on the arpegios version.
Literally everyone else just hard cuts to that part and it looses all inertia
Great insights. Love his rubato playing. I feel very silly that I have lately been playing the Beethoven but never noticed the quote. It might explain how my fingers kind of knew it automatically though... The words I like for three against four are - Bach Chopin Brahms 'n Liszt.
Horzowsky playing this delightful and unusual modulation of the impromptu in 2
You make me cry, Ben. You are so good and a great teacher ❤❤❤. Would you tell us what day you will be in Miami for Chopin competition?
I’ll be there for the whole competition! January 4-12
@ Thank you, Ben. I got 2 tickets for me and my friend for Final Part 2 on Sunday, 12th of January at 3. Hope to see you there. I want to deliver my humble donation for your patreon? (Don’t know the word and how to spell it).
@ thank you! Come find me and say hi. And you can find a link to my patreon in the description to this video. Much appreciated!
This impromptu no.2 is very much like the second movement of the Sonata Opus.35 no.2, could have commented on that, I'm commenting on this now because I just listened to the Sonata and it reminded me.
The Impromptus of Chopin are doubtlessly musical pearls and even for medium gifted pianists technically playable. I totally agree with both of you, being the F# - major Impromptu an especially charming and good crafted masterpiece. It's Chopin at his best, which doesn't depend on the length of a piece ( I think of the late Ab - major Etude dedicated to Moscheles or of course of several pieces of the Preludes ).
Garrick Ohlsson brings out the most interesting secret moments of this wonderful piece of music.
Only Chopin could write such a non - modulation from D/G leaving out the obvious, but kind of boring C7 to F : I don't know at any moment of those two bars, where this might lead to. The trick seems to be, that he just freely introduces the upper f, being not so sure himself, where to go to and finally falling into place the "wrong" way, taking the f just as the new key.
Jazz pianists do sometimes similar things, when they change a turnaround pattern ( back to the chorus ) not using the "regular" progressions - including the well known substitutes, but totally different 7th - chords, which works astonishingly well!
Jazz musicians learned a lot by listening to the great classical musicians, especially harmonically.
I like Garrick's crystal clear playing of the fast passages with the right hand ( very impressive too the recording of Sauer, whom I thought of like living in the 19th century ).
Btw does Chopin quite often compose a right - handed second part to the melody like in the Gb major Impromptu ( Berceuse, Barcarolle already in the intro ), but he doesn't use always the exactly same composing principles, which is really interesting when studying his music.
Thank you both for opening up a whole (new) world for everybody, who is playing and listening to Chopin.
Sonata Pathetique
Everyone: 🎶
Ben Laude 🪵
Impromtus no.1 is my favorite music of chopin 🎉
10:35 at that point it's "PASS THE F****** BUTTER!"
I was taught it was "pass the goddamned butter" lol
My favorite is the third one without a doubt!
I had never heard the third. Thank you. Will study. The Ab has special meaning to me when, 2 and a half years into my studies, my teacher, for the first time EVER, spoke while I was playing to say quietly, "That's it. That's the sound I've been trying to teach to you." I lost it. Grueling, tear-drenched 3 hour lessons every week and I did it, joined the lineage. Do you like Joplin or Nazareth?
Ben, no. Not everyone sounds better through a practice room door. Ha! Your point is valid and I feel should be explored. Classical singer here sharing that feeling. Did you psych yourself out? Have you ever seen that from others? Especially big competition winners?
Omg Valentina Igoshina’s recordings were my gateway to Chopin
Hers seems like the perfect fantasie impromptu
Beeeeeennnnnn I love you !!!!!!!
I will perform my pieces with thick, practice room doors across the stage.... thank you 😂😂😂
omg I love that shirt haha! 😂😂
Also, can any one confirm the similarity between Brahms’ die Mainacht and the 2nd impromptu in f sharp?
I actually collaborated on die Mainacht written in f sharp major lol so the similarity was very noticeable
Just listened to the Brahms - I hear the similarity for sure! Maybe not a direct homage, but we know that Brahms loved Chopin’s music.
@@benlawdywe have Clara to thank for that 🙂↕️also, it’s interesting how die Mainacht also ends up going to triplets when the main theme comes back! It’s interesting how composers unknowingly (or not) tip their hats off to one another
13:42 this ossia appears in the Joseffy edition of the Impromptus with Klindworth as the reference, published by G. Schirmer.
@@ClassicalT42 I wonder if Liszt came up with it, or at least played it, since Sauer and Klindworth both studied with him.
@ it’s anyone’s guess, but Klindworth was also a composer, and this flourish fits very well with the character of the piece and is also similar to other authentic variants by Chopin that imitate a “singer’s cadenza”. My guess is the ossia was composed by Klindworth
@ wild that 19th century editors could just make up notes. It’s kinda fun though. I didn’t know about the edition but I play a version of this flourish that I based on the Sauer recording.
Hi Ben. I love your channel. This comment has nothing to do with your video haha but I’m in love with Moszkowsky’s second concerto. Have you heard it? Do you know why there are no famous soloist playing it??
Ernst Oster should be credited with first identifying the Beethoven quotation in the Fantaisie-Impromptu. That was in 1947. But Oster did not merely identify the quotation. He also demonstrated much deeper connections between the Beethoven C#-minor sonata and the Fantaisie-Impromptu, and used those insights to help explain, among other things, why Chopin dd not publish the piece. The article was reprinted in Aspects of Schenkerian Theory, ed. David Beach (Yale UP, 1983). Oster was one of the great musical thinkers of the last century, more through his teaching than through publication, although each of his essays is wonderul and unique. (See, for example, his article on the Egmont Overture reprinted in the 1983 collection referenced above.)
Yes he points out the triplets at the beginning start on the same notes/same register as the moonlight 1st mvt. And of course the C# minor/Db/C# minor key scheme was first and most famously done in the moonlight
The best rendition of the Chopin's Fantaisie-impromptu I've heard is by Daniel Kharatinov.
Wow I want that shirt, Ben.
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
@@benlawdymuch obliged!
At least you are still a lumberjack 😂 and I am neither 😅
I need that t-shirt!
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
I wonder if You will do the Concerts Podcast with Garrick Ohlsson 😊
I wonder why nobody talks about Moschelles op 89 Impromptu when talking about the Fantasize Impromptu, I find these two pieces are closest than the Fantasise Impromptu is to Moonlight Sonata
If I’d had more time I would have mentioned it. It’s sometimes pointed at as another reason (along with the Moonlight) that Chopin may have kept the piece private. He took pride in his original ideas and probably regarded the Fantaisie-Impromptu as borrowing too much material from other composers.
Is it cliche for me to think of Munch's Scream when that cadenza is played?
@ I’ve never thought of that before and never heard anyone make the comparison, so not cliche at all!
You could have commented on the similarity of improvisation no. 2 with the theme of the first movement of sonata opus 58 no. 3
I didn’t think of that, but the scales at the end of the 2nd impromptu remind me a lot of the passagework in the 4th movement of the 3rd sonata
@benlawdy Yes, but look at the part that preceded these scales and see if the melody doesn't resemble the Sonata's theme. I listened to this Sonata today and immediately remembered Impromptu No. 2 when I heard the first movement of the Sonata.The melody seems very similar to me, I can't say why, as I'm not a musicologist.But it's the same thing that happened to me with waltz no.5 and Etude number five, for some reason I find the melodies very similar and I don't know why, but in the case of waltz and Etude, besides the wrong note, there is something in this melodies that reminds me of something from the Christian harp.
I once heard the four Impromptus played by Kissin live in Stuttgart once and liked it very much but in the Pause/Break, that one guy said, he did not like the third impromptu and what's it doing there? I never felt that, I always liked that piece.
29:29 is the same type of structure as in the coda of the 4th Ballade, but there it is the complete anti-hapiness!
Are impromptus focused study pieces from the composer, or in a different perspectice, are they written after an idea develops after improvising freely (long enough to then begin the writing phase - and see it through)?
Short: are they composed from improvising, or are they composed with an idea in mind with focused development of the idea(s)?
What's your take?
Wonderful to be this early here
hi
where can i get the shirt?
@@SergeiRachmaninoff287 www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
How much does Garrick know that he can adlib so many pieces on a dime.
Sorry but I need a link to the t-shirt
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
@@benlawdy asked and answered - thank you!
My favorite is the g flat. I cannot get into the f# manor.
Hi Ben, is there a link to buy Garrick's Chopin's complete work CD? Thanks
Hyperion is only selling digital downloads: www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDS44351/66
If you want the box of CDs you'll have to buy it second-hand. Here's one: cdsvinyljapan.com/en-us/products/034571143514
Hi Ben, where can I buy the shirt?
Which edition is that fantasie impromptu? There are so many places that seems to be different than the more standard edition.
He revised it in 1835 and that manuscript turned up in the 20th century. It has “improved” voicings in a number of places and the high point of the A section is slightly altered. I learned the earlier version and actually prefer it (I think the simpler figurations fit the music better somehow).
During the Sauer recording of the return of the A section, I’m actually showing the 1834 version again (since it’s what he’s playing). Both are from the Ekier edition on IMSLP.
There are two publications of the later version. One was edited by Arthur Rubinstein (G. Schirmer) and another edited by Maurice Hinson (Alfred Publications)
@benlawdy that attention to details 👍👍👍
Thank you both!
As a pianist, I can't play piano in my dreams. Nothing works correctly, all the note sound wrong, and it wakes me up 😆
Same with Rubik's cubes, or any sort of puzzles. They never make sense in my dreams.
Hi Ben. Is it possible to contact you again? Now you have left TB I've lost your email address and wasn't sure whether to send via Utah address. Thanks Andrew Australia
Where can one get these piano themed t-shirts?
archivalapparel.co has some cool composer designs. Teepublic is where I got the Chopin/liszt gangster t shirt
Great video! Firstly, I'd like to make a quick, insightful, remark about the Chopin new waltz - has anyone remarked upon a simple but telling point - the fact that the signature 'Chopin', being, as we know, faked - what does that tell us about the waltz? Simply this: that that person had a vested interest in alleging it to be Chopin's. Now - obviously he didn't think future ink analysis of the signature would find him out (200 years later). It's easier to forge a piece of music than a signature after all. How likely, then, is it that that person was NOT also the forger of the waltz (if it is a fake)? O.K. so now we realize that the forger of the signature is most likely the forger of the whole piece. Thus the whole piece is a fake.
So only this needs to be done, Ben - they need to analyse the ink used in the signature and get a date. Was it around the same time as the piece was written? If so - we can safely say 'the whole piece is a fake' - SINCE WHO ELSE WOULD TRY AND FAKE THE SIGNATURE IF THEY HAD NOT ALSO FAKED THE MUSIC? If the signature is later / much later - then how would anyone have been clever enough to know that the 'Chopin waltz' was either really/possibly Chopin's (and then they can try and fake it with a signature)? Would he/she have been aware of all those nuances that are, after all, EXTREMELY similar to Chopin's style - aware enough to think "yes - I'll go and add by way of pretty good/ very good forgery - Chopin's name since the waltz has every sign of being his - even to the smallest detail; all it needs is his name and then I'll easily be able to claim it's by Chopin and make a few bucks in so doing?" I think you said in an earlier video that the waltz ink was from the period Chopin was writing waltzes (although the signature was not th6e same ink as the waltz). Can't they do the analysis on the signature ink to get an exact date? I know you said the ink used in the waltz itself was from his 'waltz period'.
To recap - do you want to tell me that Chopin indeed wrote it - and then some / many years later - someone else found it who just HAPPENED to be a Chopin manuscript expert, and thought 'hey this is a Chopin! (or one very like a Chopin) - but - just to remove all doubt I'll forge his name on it'? Well forgive me if I find the suspense of my credulity to be an unobtainable matter regarding that particular point.
Now that I have, I think, roundly proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the waltz is a fake - let me come to this impromptu video. You say that you don't think Chopin knew Schubert's impromptus - well I concur that he wouldn't have known them AS A SET OF FOUR. I am able to offer a concrete reason - Schubert's impromptus (either set of x4) would not have been published by the time Chopin wrote his first one. Obviously numbers 1 and 2 of d899 HAD BEEN published - but the fact that Chopin was to write exactly 4 (just like Schubert's sets) suggests strongly to me that it would be too much of a coincidence that he was to write the same number as Schubert. So Chopin probably didn't even know Schubert's d899 numbers 1 and 2, is what I mean. Although it is possible (especially since the fantasy impromptu would have been a 'fifth' - but there again, he wasn't intending on publishing it...)
Finally, I would like to make a remark about the Fantasy Impromptu. The most interesting rendition I have heard is by Katsaris who brings out something I've never heard anyone else do - th-cam.com/users/shorts4JgpIJfCwW4
I'd like to add that I've never cared for this fantasy impromptu (or the g min ballade). Tiffany Poon does the best versions of both these pieces, in my opinion.
Love this series BUT where can I get these t-shirts??
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
The black Chopin shirt was a limited edition that I got from archivalapparel.co (which has lots of cool composer shirts)
@@benlawdy I thank you very much.
What is the piece at 1:49?
Chopin Impromptu no. 3 in G-flat (Kate Liu’s performance)
@benlawdy thank you
Why do you not put the podcast before the youtube videos on spotify anymore?
Because I’m still finishing them and am behind, so I just want to keep the content rolling out. Full episode by tomorrow hopefully.
@@benlawdy How DARE you, forego sleep if you must! Content is more important than your physical needs
@@m420-nd1if to be fair, I did announce a schedule. But it’s definitely an optimistic one…
And yes sleep has been at an all time low 😅
Ben! Where did you get that shirt?
What’s up Jason!? Shirt here: www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
Where did you get that shirt with Chopin and Liszt holding a gun, I need it!!!
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
@ Thank you!
Hmmmm delicious impromptus
Didn't Van Cliburn win the Int'l Chopin Competition?
@@TheloniousCube Tchaikovsky Competition
@@benlawdy Ooops! My bad.
Pulp Fiction or The Man from C.H.O.P.I.N.
t-shirt? 🧐🎹
I’m surprised at the seeming disdain for the Fantasy Impromptu.
Maybe it’s the speed at which it is sometimes played. Maybe it’s because it wasn’t published by Chopin. Maybe because it was seen as a gift to a student (how dare he). Or maybe because a slice apparently came from Beethoven.
Maybe it’s best appreciated by adolescents. When I learned it as a teenager it perfectly expressed how I was feeling although not as much as Beethovens Appassionata or Chopins Revolutionary etude.
Above all I suppose for me the Fantasy displayed some skills and was pretty to play to friends who weren’t into “that heavy classical music stuff.”
No disdain! I love the piece for what it is and I’m even playing it right now on a recital program. It does have a special quality to inspire especially young people and draw them into the wonders of classical piano. I have younger siblings and have played hundreds of pieces in front of them over the years, and yet it was the fantaisie impromptu that led my little brother to come up and ask me “what’s that???”
You have neglected tte mathematics of two against three and three against four. It’s what I call “musical fractions” and provides precise understanding of the placement of the notes with respect to each other. It is quite surprising where this turns up even outside of music. Moiré patterns and Leonardo daVinci s clock escapement mechanism are two that come to mind immediately
@@dougr.2398 it’s useful to consider (with 4 against 3, you can draw them out under 12), but ultimately in music they have to be felt without calculation.
@ They are only accurately felt “without calculation” a) when the calculation is in kinetic or muscle memory and b) when the right and left are balanced and are heard equally. Very few ever achieve that level of perfection, but it can be accomplished
@ of course the least common multiple is used to analyze the note placement. This can be accomplished either in a straight line or on a circle.
@@dougr.2398 I assure you those best at polyrhythms have not done the calculation, even if their muscles “know” the math
What's that t-shirt? I want one.
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
It’s an iconic scene from Pulp Fiction, but with Chopin and Liszt as the gangsters
@@benlawdyPulp Fiction is one of my favorite movies of all time. So this is an instant buy for me.
Can I get that tee shirt you're wearing? Who sells it!!!???LOL!
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt
@@benlawdy Thanks!!! Love your podcasts!!!
3 against 4: Eat your goddamn spinach.
Garrick offered this one, actually, but I decided to cut it. He needs to be the wholesome one of the two of us.
Garricks playing is like a blank canvas, nothing more than written in the notes, a little bit of musicality just so it doesn’t sound too boring but absolutely void of personality character true great talent great emotion great artistry- perfect for demonstrating just what the notes are. You can hear it in his explanations, he just explains this and that is written, he feels nothing more than your average high schooler he just has the physique that allows him to play without trouble.
Right you are with these piano machines today that are fooling themselves to be world class! Do they even know the name Artur Rubinstein ???!!!
@@josephchang955 im with alexandra dovgan, evgeny bozhanov, yuliana avdeeva, trifonov--none of which are machines
@ not sure if you agreed or disagreed with me but yeah he is no more than a great machine
We need am episode on how Chopin would have pronounced his full name.
@@colincomposer that’ll be episode 17. By then I’ll have learned how to pronounce it
Do they even know the name Artur Rubinstein when it comes to Chopin???!!!
Props for using his Polish name Fryderyk instead of anzglicised or French versions
What is that shirt 😂
haha, Rossano plays Fantasie super entertainingly th-cam.com/users/liveAMYyrN5mSBY?si=A6Bh0zRmNEHFoONr&t=3591 to make it clear: it's not a thing to be re-visited often but rather to unwind yourself with once in a longer while. But it shows that the piece is arguably much weaker than the other Impromptus: it welcomes and accepts the addition of the rhythm section with open arms. To my ears it clearly benefits from the small spicing of the harmony and bass playing the melody. But ofc I may be saying something ridiculous xd
I dig it! That harmonization in the middle section!! I wonder if I can “get away” with playing it that way in one of the repeated…
The term improviser always struck me as odd. That’s just what all musicians outside of (modern performers of) Classical music do. It goes without saying that musicians play music that is not written.
@@cadriver2570 yep. With classical musicians you have to specify, because otherwise it’s assumed that you don’t improvise
@@benlawdy Let's change this. I sure wish improvisation was emphasized when at conservatory. I since went hard into Jazz and my ear and musical fluency skyrocketed.
Nice video, and amusing too, but still very lumberjack-y … sorry Ben, no offense intended.
Even Alan Walker admits, despite his quasi-universalist approach to Chopin, that Chopin’s music is an integral piece of his soul. Thus, there is no reason to discuss impromptus in an emotional vacuum (like in this episode).
The Romantic era fostered a culture of emotional expressiveness, particularly in Poland, where male friendships were characterized by a uniquely tender and poetic language. These bonds, deeply rooted in Polish Romantic ideals, were often expressed in letters filled with heartfelt declarations and vivid imagery. Without this cultural framework, Chopin’s impromptus as we know them would have been much different or not at all. The emotional landscapes of these works echo the tenderness and honesty found in his letters, especially those to his closest friend, Tytus Wojciechowski.
In Polish Romantic culture, friendships were infused with a sense of sacred connection. Men expressed affection openly, often using language that modern readers might misinterpret. Chopin’s letters to Tytus are filled with such expressions: "My dearest soul, why are you not here? Without you, everything is nothing." In another letter, Chopin wrote, "If I could only throw my arms around you, my dear friend, and tell you how much I miss you." These words reflect a deep, culturally normative bond rather than romantic love as understood today.
In contrast, Chopin’s romantic relationships with women often carried a different tone, one marked by the complexities of love, passion, and societal expectations. His letters to Maria Wodzińska, with whom he was briefly engaged, were more restrained and shaped by propriety. For instance, Chopin wrote to her family about their relationship in formal and respectful terms, revealing little of the vulnerability found in his letters to male friends.
His long and tumultuous relationship with George Sand was another significant influence on his life. Chopin’s letters to her reveal passion and conflict in equal measure. He once wrote: "You are my solace, my torment, my angel, and my despair." The language here is charged with intensity but lacks the pure, unguarded tenderness that characterizes his letters to Tytus. While Sand offered Chopin companionship and care, particularly during his declining health, their relationship often reflected the stormy dynamics of Romantic love.
Chopin’s impromptus mirror the emotional openness of his friendships rather than the volatility of his romantic relationships. Their lyrical intimacy and improvisatory nature seem to echo the language of male friendship in Romantic Poland. For example, the tender middle section of the *Fantaisie-Impromptu* (Op. 66) evokes vulnerability and longing, akin to Chopin’s plea to Tytus: "You are in my heart, in my every breath." Similarly, the oscillation between playful and melancholic moods in the Impromptu No. 1 in A-flat major (Op. 29) reflects the complexities of close relationships-the joy and the sorrow intertwined.
Polish Romanticism distinguished itself from its English, French, and German counterparts by embracing emotional vulnerability and affectionate language in male friendships. This cultural backdrop shaped Chopin’s identity and artistry. His letters provide a window into this ethos, and his impromptus offer faraway echoes of the same tenderness.
****
Ben, you could ask Garrick, if he knew all that at the time of winning in Warsaw. If not, I will give up… maybe… or maybe this is a pece of information, which could help young pianists to actually understand what they are playing, and what for, (except for money and fame, of course).
Thank you a lot for promoting Chopin and his music.
PS. I don’t know if you know, but Alan is basically unknown in Poland even among specialists? Don’t know why?
Don’t wary, we have one real Texan in the family, currently living I Warsaw.
Thank you as always for your insights on the emotional core to Chopin’s music. From what I’ve recorded with Garrick so far, I think you’ll be most satisfied with the Mazurkas episode where Garrick and I delve deeper into the meaning of the music. But even there we recognize that we’re a couple of Americans who were first and foremost drawn in by the purely aesthetic appeal of Chopin’s music, a level at which can be more than fulfilling for a lifetime. This is not to take away from the deeper meanings you articulate, but it’s only to speak to the way the music is able to communicate to people from all walks of life. Dare I suggest than even a young Polish child is first drawn to Chopin not because it’s the poetic voice of Poland’s historic national aspirations, but because it is beautiful. It captures the imagination. Only thereafter do they discover where they’re from and how much the music means, especially as a source of national identity. Similarly in making a podcast that attempts to draw in larger audiences, I try first and foremost to reveal the intrinsic beauty and genius designs found in Chopin. I would need another 30 hours to truly explore the emotional and historic depth you speak to, but at least in remaining episodes I hope to at least start digging in that direction. Meanwhile, I’m glad we have comment sections for dedicated observers like yourself to fill in the gaps!
@@benlawdy Definitely, you are absolutely right. Anyone with even a minimum feel for music gets instantly attracted to and enchanted by Chopin's melodies. These melodies are everywhere-in the right hand, in the left hand, in both at the same time. They are ever-present, flowing like a river of melodies. I am not a pianist at all, but through mere observation and feeling, I can understand how easily something can go 'wrong,' causing the piano to stop singing along those fragile lines and start sounding awkward or trivial. But that is probably a masterclass approach. In general, Chopin is as captivating as Paul McCartney.
All the great pianists-Garrick Ohlsson, Pollini, Martha Argerich, Zimerman, Blechacz, Rubinstein, and recently Bruce Liu-they are the guardians of this fragile beauty. I don't know how they do it. It requires so much talent and soul that it is beyond the comprehension of any mortal listener.
Every true master of their craft stands before three fundamental questions: What, how, and why? The last question is frequently the most complex one, so perhaps knowing the answers is not absolutely necessary, even though it may be interesting and illuminating.
It must be extraordinarily difficult to play Chopin right, so I would guess that some people, seriously interested in doing so, would like to know why they need to endure the struggle. Perhaps knowing that their suffering is just a fraction of what the composer went through might give them deeper insight?
@@benlawdy th-cam.com/video/DQeC5i9c09M/w-d-xo.html Well now i am not so sure anymore ha ha ha
12:10 Had to look this word up but in case anyone else is wondering, he says "saccharine" quality. Was pleasantly surprised to hear this because that's been my own theory too - I always felt the middle section was overly sappy or sentimental, especially after multiple listenings, and I think that Chopin, even while he was alive, was resisting the image of being a sappy composer. When people dismiss Chopin for being too sentimental or girly, I just tell them to stop listening to the Fantasie-Impromptu and the famous nocturne.
Yeah I think this is another reason he didn’t publish it. This really seems meant only as a private gift for this particular baroness who probably melted over the middle section.
#(#)'+#91
i'm highly skeptical of this theory of chopin consciously copying beethoven (for whatever reason, chopin was not a beethoven fan) and also of chopin keeping the piece private because of this. the main issue is, the series of notes in question are just not that organic to the piece. if chopin were aware of the sameness, he could have altered this run of notes relatively easily without materially affecting the piece. in most performances, they go by so quickly the listener has trouble discerning them very precisely, so an alteration would hardly have been fatal. i'm sure a computer analysis would find many more such cases of sameness in music history that are nothing more than parallel discovery. on a separate note, while the other impromptus are all lovely and deserve more attention, the fantasie-impromptu is certainly very beautiful and worthy.
@@Danny-rq5vn on the last point, I agree the fantaisie impromptu it beautiful and worthy - but I think that speaks for itself and there’s less need to defend one of the most popular piano pieces in history than there is to promote the (arguably grater merits) of the other three. It also seems by Chopin’s own standard he knew there were aspects of this piece that were less developed and more sentimental than what he typically signed off on in his published works.
For me the similarity with the moonlight seems to be more than coincidental not only because of that one figuration, but because we know Chopin was teaching the moonlight sonata at the time (several references in the Eigeldinger book) and because there are other historic similarities between the two pieces, like Chopin’s use of the C# minor - Db major - C# minor key scheme, which he would soon champion but which for the first time and most famously occurs in Beethoven’s moonlight. Also, even though he conceals it in a different texture, on the printed page many casual observers would have noticed the verbatim figuration from one of Beethoven’s most popular sonatas.
But even about the figuration alone, I’d be very curious about this hypothetical computer analysis. Of course this is much more than a scale or an arpeggios, it’s a distinctive figuration that (knowing the repertoire quite well) doesn’t appear much if at all in just that way in just that key. And since it’s not just 3 or 4 notes in a row, but dozens of identical notes in a row, I think a computer would say the likelihood of direct influence is high in that case. Or, to put it another way, if this isn’t prima facia evidence of influence, I’d like to know what is! Not lots of cases in music history with such direct note-for-note correspondence.
@@benlawdy this is a complicated question. obviously a computer just looking for identical sequences willl find lots of a scales and arpeggios, etc., that are not evidence of anything. in baroque music it would surely find lots of additional identical sequences that are not evidence of anything. so the software would need to be moderately sophisticated. but, to the main point, i guess i don't really understand the idea that it was a conscious quote: if chopin had wanted to pay homage to beethoven, he could have done a lovely variation on a lovely beethoven melody. this does not sound anything like paying homage because (a) the feeling is completely different and (b) the bit that is identical is not even a remotely significant melody of beethoven's. and if it is not paying homage, why do it? chopin surely could wrote hundreds of little bits just a beautiful as this, so it wasn't for lack of ability to come up with something on his own. perhaps there was unconscious copying. chopin did not feel a need to alter it because he didn't realize it was not original. or perhaps it was, as i said, simply parallel discovery of a delicate way to get from Point A to Point B musically. of course...i could be completely wrong :) but those are my thoughts.
@ yeah I don’t see it as an homage either. My thought is that he was playing with the material from the moonlight sonata, perhaps with a student he was teaching it to, or just by himself while playing through it, and in his insatiable creative/improvisatory state he ended up weaving that cadenza figuration into a sweeping fantasy (which also contains influences of a Moscheles pieces). That seems plausible, no? Then it ends up as a private gift, and he’s a bit reluctant to publish (both because he valued the privacy of gifts, and maybe because he knew he was playing around with some derived material). Seems believable to me, but whatever the story, I still think the notes speak for themselves and he didn’t just happen to write those notes in that key scheme without knowing about its relationship to this famous Beethoven sonata he also played and taught.
@@benlawdy i suppose if he was really teaching the moonlight at the same time he wrote this, i have to concede, there was likely least an unconscious copying. I'm curious about your opinion on a related topic. I noticed that the opus 72 no 1 nocturne opening melody is nearly identical (melodically, rhythmically, harmonically) to the song "A Day in the Life Of A Fool". I cannot find any reference online to the comparison or any claim that the songwrite, luis bonfa, took the melody from chopin. Thoughts? here's the sinatra version and then the nocturne (which I'm sure you know). th-cam.com/video/yDE0tu11ki8/w-d-xo.html. th-cam.com/video/vJpAIOFN5WQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Danny-rq5vn Interesting - I think in this case it's more of what our hypothetical AI would say is "coincidental." Stepping from the 3rd scale degree down to the leading tone and curling down to the 5 is a probable melodic option and the harmonic change underneath would also be the standard one. These kinds of overlaps are why we can "mashup" different styles and genres. That's my impression at first glance at least.
Pity you ran out of time for the B section of no 3.
I know :/
I think this was the day we also recorded the etudes which went way over time.
We stopped trying to record multiple episodes in one day after this…
Why not just rewrite that one line from Beethoven?
of all ways to pronounce his name this sounded most weird. Surely you either say it in french or on polish? not polish AND french?
@@matswessling6600 going for full on half Polish half French. Can’t say I’m pulling it off though
@ but why? His father was french.
@ why not? he was raised Polish and known as “fryderyk” for the first half of his life
@ was he? he changed the spelling himself to frederic.
@@matswessling6600 As I understand it, he was born 'Fryderyk' and changed his name to the French spelling upon fleeing for a combination of professional and political reasons. He was born "Fryderyk Chopin" and I like the combination of French and Polish since he body is buried in one country but his heart never left the other. But also, it really doesn't matter that much.
Why play any Chopin at all? I don't even like listening to Chopin, let alone playing it.
@@herrickinman9303 lol I guess TH-cam recommended you the wrong video then buddy
Bless your heart