Being in Map Review quite a bit the past few weeks has exposed me to these common mapping mistakes over and over again. Maybe this video will help? TMA Discord: / discord
I'd like to add speedchecks to the list. It is so easy to build (just make a jump and adjust the landing until you can only just make it), and it feels like you are making some real intentional map design rather than just throwing down blocks. But it arbitrarily cuts off a part of the player base to whom the map is now impossible, and it doesn't necessarily make the experience better for those who can make the jump.
@@facecat1 If you're going for TotD style then speedchecks (beyond those that can only be failed at super low speed) should only ever be part of a risky finish, though imo the risky finish trope is overdone anyway
@@sulphuric_glue4468 My main bug with the risky finish is that for top players it just becomes the normal finish. I like it when there's actually a good possibility of failing it. Or even better, a very difficult risky finish, but if you miss it you can still hit the normal finish without respawning.
I'm glad you're enjoying them! I have thought about making tutorial videos for different styles, but I think they're a bit of a ways away. I'm not a specialist and could end up giving bad advice, so I would want to invite someone on to talk about a style they're known for. Before I do that, I want to become a bit more established on TH-cam. Definitely something I want to do down the road!
Yoooo finally someone that makes TM mapping vids, I ve been trying to find info and tutorials on youtube about mapping but there is just nothing to find. Pleasee keep the info coming!
10:45 I remember my first ever map in TMNF included a section that went about like "left 1-block 90 > booster > small dirt hump block > 2 straight bits > left 1-block 90 > right 1-block 90". The idea I had behind it was really just "attacking the track is fun and cool, g-forces are fun and cool, so braking on a booster to fight it feels fun and cool!" I definitely built it from the lens of getting a good time by wrangling the map more than having the map help the player do what they likely want to do. Thankfully I left that behind pretty quick.
So for most of this I wasn’t doing it (I think I watch too much Wirtual to make rookie mistakes ;) but it’s definitely given me something to think about. I’ve got a few maps planned out in my head and I can’t wait to try them but I think this video will be really helpful when building future maps and as a reminder of what *not* to do.
thanks for these tips, i actually noticed a couple of these in my first map(mainly straight lines, speed control, and big jump) i'll be thinking about these in my next map.
I started playing zeepkist, it’s very similar to track mania. But you can’t excel the car/zeepkist. I’m looking for track building tips and guides. your videos really helped thank you.
I think the best tip is to have someone, whether it be a friend or something try the map and see where they struggle, since those are likely the areas that need cleaning up. maps made by beginners usually aren't THAT hard so it should be alright even if the friend is inexperienced
one of the challenges i have as a beginner mapper and beginner player is that i still kind of suck at the game, and dont know what the good lines on my own map are. i feel like more pro players could figure out faster lines wich makes speed control even harder for me. i’ll definitely keep trying tho! would like to know if there are good (beginner) mapping hubs/discords
Even on my maps today, I'm still surprised at some of the lines that end up being faster. I always recommend TMA as a mapping discord. A lot of them are very experienced players, but still friendly to beginners and always up for answering questions. There's also a section where you can post your map and receive feedback, perfect for finding out about those lines! I'll add a link in the description
Transitions are the hardest things I am running into building a map. creating a banked turn without having a hop at the beginning of the turn is driving me crazy.
little addition: an unsmooth transition can be satisfying to drive if it's well built 😊 But yeah, most of the time, new mappers are not experimented enough to do this
years agoi build ton of maps for tm orginal and nations forever but they were kinda made for hotseat stuff when family was over and lot of those tracks probably were pretty bad but still good times didnt need to satisfy some random people on the internet
This video gives alot of insight, but I think with some of the following, I think beginners could gain more on their mapping journey: For the honerable mention: you could also talk about AFK players finding standstill gps extremely annoying. This video, targething beginners, I find it a bit weird that there arent more visual examples of how things should and should not be done. You could also mention the use of penalty surfaces, instead of using anti-boosters. And checkpoints placed in such a way that they arent hard respawnable. Also recommend playing test server, its where one can learn from others simply by observing, as a regular there I can tell what a good or bad map is, even if they dont fit my personal playstyle (currecnt ice sucks!). I am no mapper myself, but am a regular in the review server. I only have one map for shitfest(my first one) and a few troll maps for the occasional round in the testing server.
If you have any pieces touching the ground in the highlighted area, you can't change the elevation. It's mainly why I map without the automatic supports in case I want to change the height
@@2inpress232 They were sponsored TotD maps widely despised by the community. You can search for them in the community campaigns menu or every other Monday in late 2022 in the TotD menu
Ah ok, I see. I don't have a lot of time to play trackmania so only have the basegame to play with (and the 25 pieces of junk i have to sift trough haha) I tend to just hope there's 1 map I really like and grind that map
Trackmania Turbo has a lot of long lasting jumps with multiple seconds of airtime and an insane amount of non respawn able speedchecks. Regarding gears and speed: If speed and gears are so important, then why does the game not show which gear you are in or how fast you are (on a hud instead of the back of the car) ?
Out of curiosity, what is the general consensus of a large jump leading to a softlock? What about an obscure path that's the only way to reach the finish, and at least one more obvious path that leads to a CP but not to the finish?
I don't think I understand, what do you mean by softlock? Either you have all of the checkpoints and can finish, or you need to get more checkpoints where you wouldn't be looking for the finish anyway. Sorry, could you try explaining it a bit more?
Softlock: A state where you can technically play the game, but can't progress in any meaningful way without resetting. An example would be on a flat plane with no way to gain air with the track being in the sky or the track otherwise being impossible to beat.
I built a map in TMF that uses as many types of terrain and features as possible. But my least favorite part of that map is the part where you are supposed to wall bang. Players who try the map don't know how to take the turn and they just think it's a bad design. To be honest, it is a bad design as it was a result of forcing things to work within space limitations and wanting to reuse elements in a specific way.
The new trackmania has a better editor and track pieces, so it's easier to make a good map, especially with off-grid block mixing as a core feature of the editor. But I'm not paying the subscription.
Hello my friend, What is the link to that map base you are using. Mine are broken and keep sending me into Console Building (I play TM on PC and have club acces)
Sorry, it's been a while since I've downloaded it and don't remember the specific ones I grabbed. If you search "no stadium" on TMX you should get some options. Just make sure that if it's a void map that the sides of the ground area are still visible as if the void is completely empty, you get a sound bug that makes the in-game sounds really loud.
I think there are only two rules in map or even game design: 1: There is no single rule without an exception that is great because it breaks the rule. 2: When the project is fun for the developer, it's easier to stay motivated and keep testing.
5 5 mistake Video mistakes: 5: Don't keep ur voice too monotone 4: Use a simple and understandable language, that also people understand, who are not from an English-speaking country. Also watch your choice of words 3: Keep the viewers motivated to watch the video. Use for that also the other points ... Just kidding. 😅 Your Video is really great. Keep making such Videos with mistakes and explanations and tips. U prolly help, helped and will help alot (or atleast some) people 👍
Thanks for these tips, I'm now going to create the ultimate beginner map featuring all of these elements
Lmao
Long straight filled with red boosters, then a hairpin and a long jump right after it lol
@@adelvaleev Followed by another long jump that lands on a tight corner.
And then get it featured in Shitfest
@@stevenmclennan1953you missed the checkpoint because you went too fast at the jump
13:33 "Tech has always been a beloved genre despite Nadeo's best efforts." xdd
I'd like to add speedchecks to the list. It is so easy to build (just make a jump and adjust the landing until you can only just make it), and it feels like you are making some real intentional map design rather than just throwing down blocks. But it arbitrarily cuts off a part of the player base to whom the map is now impossible, and it doesn't necessarily make the experience better for those who can make the jump.
@@facecat1 If you're going for TotD style then speedchecks (beyond those that can only be failed at super low speed) should only ever be part of a risky finish, though imo the risky finish trope is overdone anyway
@@sulphuric_glue4468 My main bug with the risky finish is that for top players it just becomes the normal finish. I like it when there's actually a good possibility of failing it. Or even better, a very difficult risky finish, but if you miss it you can still hit the normal finish without respawning.
I think speedchecks aren't extremely bad if done correctly, for example adding a penalty surface instead of a giant gap might be better in some cases
can't wait for someone to make a track that is exactly what this video doesn't want it to be like
Some really good points, keep it up!
really like your mapping videos , keep em coming ! Can you make a beginner guide for Fullspeed/Speedfun ?
I'm glad you're enjoying them! I have thought about making tutorial videos for different styles, but I think they're a bit of a ways away. I'm not a specialist and could end up giving bad advice, so I would want to invite someone on to talk about a style they're known for. Before I do that, I want to become a bit more established on TH-cam. Definitely something I want to do down the road!
Yoooo finally someone that makes TM mapping vids, I ve been trying to find info and tutorials on youtube about mapping but there is just nothing to find. Pleasee keep the info coming!
I also noticed a lack of mapping content, so I'm trying to do my part!
10:45 I remember my first ever map in TMNF included a section that went about like "left 1-block 90 > booster > small dirt hump block > 2 straight bits > left 1-block 90 > right 1-block 90". The idea I had behind it was really just "attacking the track is fun and cool, g-forces are fun and cool, so braking on a booster to fight it feels fun and cool!" I definitely built it from the lens of getting a good time by wrangling the map more than having the map help the player do what they likely want to do.
Thankfully I left that behind pretty quick.
So for most of this I wasn’t doing it (I think I watch too much Wirtual to make rookie mistakes ;) but it’s definitely given me something to think about. I’ve got a few maps planned out in my head and I can’t wait to try them but I think this video will be really helpful when building future maps and as a reminder of what *not* to do.
cool vid! never mapped, but this was really interesting to watch.
thanks for these tips, i actually noticed a couple of these in my first map(mainly straight lines, speed control, and big jump) i'll be thinking about these in my next map.
Awesome video, keep it up!
large jumps can be absolutely incredible in fullspeed maps. when done right, they add a unique thrill that other styles cannot.
I started playing zeepkist, it’s very similar to track mania. But you can’t excel the car/zeepkist. I’m looking for track building tips and guides. your videos really helped thank you.
I think the best tip is to have someone, whether it be a friend or something try the map and see where they struggle, since those are likely the areas that need cleaning up. maps made by beginners usually aren't THAT hard so it should be alright even if the friend is inexperienced
But now I need friends :(
great video
one of the challenges i have as a beginner mapper and beginner player is that i still kind of suck at the game, and dont know what the good lines on my own map are. i feel like more pro players could figure out faster lines wich makes speed control even harder for me.
i’ll definitely keep trying tho!
would like to know if there are good (beginner) mapping hubs/discords
Even on my maps today, I'm still surprised at some of the lines that end up being faster. I always recommend TMA as a mapping discord. A lot of them are very experienced players, but still friendly to beginners and always up for answering questions. There's also a section where you can post your map and receive feedback, perfect for finding out about those lines! I'll add a link in the description
Transitions are the hardest things I am running into building a map. creating a banked turn without having a hop at the beginning of the turn is driving me crazy.
im 917th subscriber xd keep the good work up lol
Show more examples instead of filler gameplay pl0x
"Tech has always been a beloved genre, despite Nadeo's best efforts"
lmao
little addition: an unsmooth transition can be satisfying to drive if it's well built 😊 But yeah, most of the time, new mappers are not experimented enough to do this
Beautiful ending
years agoi build ton of maps for tm orginal and nations forever but they were kinda made for hotseat stuff when family was over and lot of those tracks probably were pretty bad but still good times didnt need to satisfy some random people on the internet
This video gives alot of insight, but I think with some of the following, I think beginners could gain more on their mapping journey:
For the honerable mention: you could also talk about AFK players finding standstill gps extremely annoying.
This video, targething beginners, I find it a bit weird that there arent more visual examples of how things should and should not be done.
You could also mention the use of penalty surfaces, instead of using anti-boosters.
And checkpoints placed in such a way that they arent hard respawnable.
Also recommend playing test server, its where one can learn from others simply by observing, as a regular there I can tell what a good or bad map is, even if they dont fit my personal playstyle (currecnt ice sucks!).
I am no mapper myself, but am a regular in the review server.
I only have one map for shitfest(my first one) and a few troll maps for the occasional round in the testing server.
Not sure why i watched all of this since i dont play trackmania, but interesting video either way
How do you raise and lower a selection like you did at 1:32 ? When I try it always stays at the same level of the origin
If you have any pieces touching the ground in the highlighted area, you can't change the elevation. It's mainly why I map without the automatic supports in case I want to change the height
tanks
Ironic how Nadeo violates all of these rules in every campaign nowadays
Still not as bad as Neo Cupra
sorry what is neo cupra?
@@2inpress232 They were sponsored TotD maps widely despised by the community. You can search for them in the community campaigns menu or every other Monday in late 2022 in the TotD menu
Ah ok, I see. I don't have a lot of time to play trackmania so only have the basegame to play with (and the 25 pieces of junk i have to sift trough haha) I tend to just hope there's 1 map I really like and grind that map
@@2inpress232 Feel free to try the arcade room to try a preselected selection of user maps!
Trackmania Turbo has a lot of long lasting jumps with multiple seconds of airtime and an insane amount of non respawn able speedchecks.
Regarding gears and speed: If speed and gears are so important, then why does the game not show which gear you are in or how fast you are (on a hud instead of the back of the car) ?
👍
Out of curiosity, what is the general consensus of a large jump leading to a softlock?
What about an obscure path that's the only way to reach the finish, and at least one more obvious path that leads to a CP but not to the finish?
I don't think I understand, what do you mean by softlock? Either you have all of the checkpoints and can finish, or you need to get more checkpoints where you wouldn't be looking for the finish anyway. Sorry, could you try explaining it a bit more?
Softlock: A state where you can technically play the game, but can't progress in any meaningful way without resetting.
An example would be on a flat plane with no way to gain air with the track being in the sky or the track otherwise being impossible to beat.
I built a map in TMF that uses as many types of terrain and features as possible. But my least favorite part of that map is the part where you are supposed to wall bang. Players who try the map don't know how to take the turn and they just think it's a bad design. To be honest, it is a bad design as it was a result of forcing things to work within space limitations and wanting to reuse elements in a specific way.
The new trackmania has a better editor and track pieces, so it's easier to make a good map, especially with off-grid block mixing as a core feature of the editor. But I'm not paying the subscription.
Hello my friend,
What is the link to that map base you are using. Mine are broken and keep sending me into Console Building (I play TM on PC and have club acces)
Sorry, it's been a while since I've downloaded it and don't remember the specific ones I grabbed. If you search "no stadium" on TMX you should get some options. Just make sure that if it's a void map that the sides of the ground area are still visible as if the void is completely empty, you get a sound bug that makes the in-game sounds really loud.
The fact that zerator don't respect any of these is incredible
You can ignore any rules if you're rich enough
the stuttering is so cute ( no homo )
bwoah its my video in the video
It's a very good video!
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS, DONT USE ICE IN YOUR MAP.
this sounds both like copium and a valid point
@@mcawesome9705 I mainly play tm2 stadium and sometimes tm20 bcs theres lot of cool lol maps
7:32 what in the heccin COTD is bro cooking up in the background just use a checkpoint
I think there are only two rules in map or even game design: 1: There is no single rule without an exception that is great because it breaks the rule. 2: When the project is fun for the developer, it's easier to stay motivated and keep testing.
5 5 mistake Video mistakes:
5: Don't keep ur voice too monotone
4: Use a simple and understandable language, that also people understand, who are not from an English-speaking country. Also watch your choice of words
3: Keep the viewers motivated to watch the video. Use for that also the other points
...
Just kidding. 😅
Your Video is really great. Keep making such Videos with mistakes and explanations and tips. U prolly help, helped and will help alot (or atleast some) people 👍
What is Trackmania?
Its a arcade style racing game
Ah, thanks for the explaination, I didn't know
@@supermariomistickgames4700 No problem bud
i disagree. make worse maps, they're cooler
Only for Kacky. Not for CotD.