Dave A friend who is a master Electrician told me to beware of using the utility ground ! Because if an appliance fails sometimes the utility ground can be energized! In rare circumstances. John (KJ7TBR) new ham.🇺🇸
I'm sorry to disappoint all you who suggested that the MFJ-1026 was not the best way to go. After testing with an MFJ-1025 from my friend Dean W7DHH, I purchased a 1026 from MFJ. It took a little bit to get it calibrated, but once I did, the noise from the well pump has been totally ELIMINATED. It has been 8 months now and still zero noise when the 1026 is in line. I thank all of you for your suggestions, but I think I found the right solution. 73 de Dave AJ5F.
I've worked on these pumps for close to 40 years, I'd change the pump relay. They are cheap and easy to change. Chances are the contacts are burned and arcing creating an oscillation. You could clean the contacts, they are easily serviced but if they are warped and misaligned they will continue to arc. Your well is not inside your house, your pump might be but the well is out on your property somewhere and you will have either a well house over the top of the wellhead or a pit over the wellhead or a pitless adapter which looks like a pipe with a large cap on top. For the first two your well relay could be in the well house or pit. If you have a pitless your relay is in your house. The best place for your relay is near the pressure tank, the best place for your check valve is on the pump. I agree there is something wrong that is making your pump run so much. A leak somewhere or a bad check valve. If a had to guess I'd say your riser pipe is leaking in which case it will have to be replaced, which will require pulling the pump. The check valve should be on the pump which will require pulling the pump to fix it. Possibly it is on the top of the wellhead either in the well house or pit or if you have a pitless you will still need to pull the pump as the check valve is down hole about 6 feet, but it should be all the way down on the pump. You could put a check valve in the house but that's not ideal. If the real problem is a leaking riser you don't want to cover that by adding a check valve, a leaking riser will become a broken riser with your pump laying in the bottom of the well and significantly more difficult to retrieve. If you have a shallow well with a jet pump it will have the check valve built into the pump but you can add one inline, again as close to the pump as possible. It could be in your basement but will usually be out at the well either in the pit or well house along with the pump relay which if it is oscillating, don't move your antenna closer to it. 73s AI5BU
A friend of mine an Elmer told me the same thing about relay’s for a ham Amplifier! If the arc they can send RF back to the radio and cause all kinds of problems
With all respect, you assume a lot, Dave. In the south many/most wells have the jet pump above ground, and wells are almost all PVC pipe. No one but public utilities use steel well casings here. The pressure switch that turns the pump on is right on the pump motor, not located remotely.. My well pump is located less than 10 feet from my shack, and the only time it's ever created any RF interference is when the points were going bad/arcing. A new pressure switch fixed that problem. 73 and keep up the good work on your TH-cam channel! Ken K4NWD
Dear Mr. KE0OG. Thank you for all of this information. Youre helping me build a fantastic listening station for the time being, which will allow me to transmit once im licensed. You are amazing and i hope you can keep making this awesome informative content. Be safe and many well wishes, also because of the time im poating this, merry christmas/happy holidays!
I have a submersible pump with fiberglass pressure tank at my QTH. I have zero noise problems from it on any band. I agree with previous comment that something is wrong...probably several things by this time. First it sounds like his system is short-cycling due to the tank being water-bound. Many modern well systems use a pressure tank with a 'pressurized air bag' within the tank. The bag is pre-charged with air to a pressure just a couple of pounds below the pressure at which the pump turns on. These bags develop air leaks after a few years and fill up with water. The water will not compress resulting in very frequent cycling of the pump. Short cycling will drastically shorten the life of a pump and other components in the well such as the torque arrestors, pipe, centrifugal starting switch on the pump, etc. Sounds to me something has worn to the point where it is arcing...
Just a thought, if the well pump is kicking on often, one solution that might help more than just HF would be to get a bigger pressure tank. A larger pressure tank has a larger cavity and goes a lot longer before making the well pump turn on to refill it. Small pressure tanks are usually inefficient and cause the pump to come to come on many many times whereas a larger pressure tank can go significantly longer without needing to turn on the well pump. Larger pressure tank can extend the life of the well pump by not running it so frequently and that also would be a positive for your HF experience in this case.
Hello. May you show how do you cancel noise using a noise bridge? Most properly the connections from radio to the noise bridge for such purpose. The part I don't understand the most is "don't transmit to the noise bridge or you'll fry it for supper". How can it cancel the noise when you disconnect it?
Great show Dave. Additional thought. It appears the noise source is constant when the pump motor is running. I suggest using a portable short wave receiver or AM radio as a noise source tracer to locate the culprit. 73, WA6LBY
Hi Dave, question about a mobile setup. I have led headlights and notice when I run them the noise floor comes up about 3 S units. Should I run a ferrite bead on the power line or install a power line filter??
hi Dave I love you Service I have a question on Noise on 75m 40m 30m and 20m a noise level of s8 to s9 I am running 53foot end fead 25 feet up have power lines 25 feet from end of antenna tried grounding the coax shield and counter pole to no help have ferrite chocks comming to see if that will help do you have any other ideas I plan to try moving antenna end away from power lines only on 1/2 acure so can't move to fare 73 KK7BVG Ken Sypher
What, no mention of placing a common mode choke/EMI filter at the top of the well head? Something like a CW4EL2-20A-T seems like the obvious first step to me.
Doubling the range would be a decrease of 6 dB, and depends on the wavelength and whether you are outside the near-field from the source. I am betting on this being a conducted noise signal, rather than a radiated one. Just a couple years ago, the FCC handed out a violation notice to a farmers, for a noisy well. He ignored them until he saw how many thousands of dollars that would cost him
I agree that the noise canceler is not the best solution in this case. I disagree with the "they don't work well" or that you haven't heard of them working well. I have seen a lot of videos and I myself own one of them and it is the only thing that works with my vertical to drop my noise floor. My noise floor is nothing in my house but it drops me from a s8 noise floor to an s1 on 40m, now that said I just switched to a random wire and it is so much quieter than my vertical I don't need it for the efrw.
Sounds like his tank is small if the pump is turning on often. Better to have a larger tank to reduce pump cycles. This obviously will not solve the noise problem, just reduces the frequency of pump cycles increasing its life. Well pump replacement is no fun.
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Thank you, Dave, for taking my question and for your suggestions.
73 de Dave AJ5F
Did any of his suggestions help?
Dave A friend who is a master Electrician told me to beware of using the utility ground ! Because if an appliance fails sometimes the utility ground can be energized! In rare circumstances. John (KJ7TBR) new ham.🇺🇸
I'm sorry to disappoint all you who suggested that the MFJ-1026 was not the best way to go. After testing with an MFJ-1025 from my friend Dean W7DHH, I purchased a 1026 from MFJ. It took a little bit to get it calibrated, but once I did, the noise from the well pump has been totally ELIMINATED. It has been 8 months now and still zero noise when the 1026 is in line. I thank all of you for your suggestions, but I think I found the right solution. 73 de Dave AJ5F.
I've worked on these pumps for close to 40 years, I'd change the pump relay. They are cheap and easy to change. Chances are the contacts are burned and arcing creating an oscillation. You could clean the contacts, they are easily serviced but if they are warped and misaligned they will continue to arc. Your well is not inside your house, your pump might be but the well is out on your property somewhere and you will have either a well house over the top of the wellhead or a pit over the wellhead or a pitless adapter which looks like a pipe with a large cap on top. For the first two your well relay could be in the well house or pit. If you have a pitless your relay is in your house. The best place for your relay is near the pressure tank, the best place for your check valve is on the pump.
I agree there is something wrong that is making your pump run so much. A leak somewhere or a bad check valve. If a had to guess I'd say your riser pipe is leaking in which case it will have to be replaced, which will require pulling the pump. The check valve should be on the pump which will require pulling the pump to fix it. Possibly it is on the top of the wellhead either in the well house or pit or if you have a pitless you will still need to pull the pump as the check valve is down hole about 6 feet, but it should be all the way down on the pump. You could put a check valve in the house but that's not ideal. If the real problem is a leaking riser you don't want to cover that by adding a check valve, a leaking riser will become a broken riser with your pump laying in the bottom of the well and significantly more difficult to retrieve. If you have a shallow well with a jet pump it will have the check valve built into the pump but you can add one inline, again as close to the pump as possible. It could be in your basement but will usually be out at the well either in the pit or well house along with the pump relay which if it is oscillating, don't move your antenna closer to it.
73s
AI5BU
A friend of mine an Elmer told me the same thing about relay’s for a ham Amplifier! If the arc they can send RF back to the radio and cause all kinds of problems
With all respect, you assume a lot, Dave. In the south many/most wells have the jet pump above ground, and wells are almost all PVC pipe. No one but public utilities use steel well casings here. The pressure switch that turns the pump on is right on the pump motor, not located remotely.. My well pump is located less than 10 feet from my shack, and the only time it's ever created any RF interference is when the points were going bad/arcing. A new pressure switch fixed that problem. 73 and keep up the good work on your TH-cam channel! Ken K4NWD
Dear Mr. KE0OG. Thank you for all of this information. Youre helping me build a fantastic listening station for the time being, which will allow me to transmit once im licensed. You are amazing and i hope you can keep making this awesome informative content. Be safe and many well wishes, also because of the time im poating this, merry christmas/happy holidays!
I have a submersible pump with fiberglass pressure tank at my QTH. I have zero noise problems from it on any band. I agree with previous comment that something is wrong...probably several things by this time. First it sounds like his system is short-cycling due to the tank being water-bound. Many modern well systems use a pressure tank with a 'pressurized air bag' within the tank. The bag is pre-charged with air to a pressure just a couple of pounds below the pressure at which the pump turns on. These bags develop air leaks after a few years and fill up with water. The water will not compress resulting in very frequent cycling of the pump. Short cycling will drastically shorten the life of a pump and other components in the well such as the torque arrestors, pipe, centrifugal starting switch on the pump, etc. Sounds to me something has worn to the point where it is arcing...
Just a thought, if the well pump is kicking on often, one solution that might help more than just HF would be to get a bigger pressure tank. A larger pressure tank has a larger cavity and goes a lot longer before making the well pump turn on to refill it. Small pressure tanks are usually inefficient and cause the pump to come to come on many many times whereas a larger pressure tank can go significantly longer without needing to turn on the well pump. Larger pressure tank can extend the life of the well pump by not running it so frequently and that also would be a positive for your HF experience in this case.
Hello. May you show how do you cancel noise using a noise bridge? Most properly the connections from radio to the noise bridge for such purpose. The part I don't understand the most is "don't transmit to the noise bridge or you'll fry it for supper". How can it cancel the noise when you disconnect it?
Great show Dave. Additional thought. It appears the noise source is constant when the pump motor is running. I suggest using a portable short wave receiver or AM radio as a noise source tracer to locate the culprit. 73, WA6LBY
Hi Dave, question about a mobile setup. I have led headlights and notice when I run them the noise floor comes up about 3 S units. Should I run a ferrite bead on the power line or install a power line filter??
hi Dave I love you Service I have a question on Noise on 75m 40m 30m and 20m a noise level of s8 to s9 I am running 53foot end fead 25 feet up have power lines 25 feet from end of antenna tried grounding the coax shield and counter pole to no help have ferrite chocks comming to see if that will help do you have any other ideas I plan to try moving antenna end away from power lines only on 1/2 acure so can't move to fare 73 KK7BVG Ken Sypher
One noise cancelling system requires a microphone to sample the interfering noise so that it can be removed from the signal, DSP processor.
What, no mention of placing a common mode choke/EMI filter at the top of the well head? Something like a CW4EL2-20A-T seems like the obvious first step to me.
Doubling the range would be a decrease of 6 dB, and depends on the wavelength and whether you are outside the near-field from the source.
I am betting on this being a conducted noise signal, rather than a radiated one.
Just a couple years ago, the FCC handed out a violation notice to a farmers, for a noisy well. He ignored them until he saw how many thousands of dollars that would cost him
How i remove the mppt switch ing noise from my radio??
I agree that the noise canceler is not the best solution in this case.
I disagree with the "they don't work well" or that you haven't heard of them working well.
I have seen a lot of videos and I myself own one of them and it is the only thing that works with my vertical to drop my noise floor.
My noise floor is nothing in my house but it drops me from a s8 noise floor to an s1 on 40m, now that said I just switched to a random wire and it is so much quieter than my vertical I don't need it for the efrw.
Assuming it's coming in through the antenna, it could be coming in through the AC/DC power.
Id say something in the pump system is arcing and needs to be fixed.
Sounds like his tank is small if the pump is turning on often. Better to have a larger tank to reduce pump cycles. This obviously will not solve the noise problem, just reduces the frequency of pump cycles increasing its life. Well pump replacement is no fun.
Or the pump tank, if it is the type with a "bladder", might have a hole in it. I second Louis Seaman's more complete explanation below.
XLNT -'73
Man my truck makes a ton of noise on 2m