a TRICKY integral

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 74

  • @gm-123-0
    @gm-123-0 ปีที่แล้ว +68

    This one was so beautiful. In just one problem there were the basel problem, the laplace transform, geometric series, feynman integrals, euler's formula and even one of the weirdest versions of zero. Very nice.

    • @fantiscious
      @fantiscious ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Hoping no Calc 1 professor puts this on their tests

    • @siamsama2581
      @siamsama2581 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@fantiscious laplace transform are not covered not in calc 1 so no they wouldnt imo

    • @siamsama2581
      @siamsama2581 ปีที่แล้ว

      and feynmann integrals maybe?

  • @salkabalani1482
    @salkabalani1482 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    Great integral thanks Michael. BTW I love the new chalk with high contrast bright colors

    • @artsmith1347
      @artsmith1347 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Agreed. His visuals really good -- both the graphics and the clarity of characters in the equations. I didn't know the chalk is new, but I don't recall seeing some of the colors before and their brightness is helpful. Following the logic in a math presentation can be tough enough. If I had to struggle to read the images or equations, it would be tougher.

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Glad you like it! it's just a change in saturation. I did it to make everything "pop" a bit more.
      Thanks for noticing.
      -Stephanie
      MP Editor

    • @salkabalani1482
      @salkabalani1482 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@MichaelPennMath Great job Stephanie. We appreciate your efforts

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MichaelPennMath Why use the trick at all thoughMichael if no one willthink of that?Thanks for sharing.

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MichaelPennMath And why dont you write sine of x as [e^ix minus cos x]/i since if you rearrange and solve for sine x that is whatyou get--sine is not only the imaginary part once you divide by the imaginary number..

  • @DavesMathVideos
    @DavesMathVideos ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Amazing integral and cool tricks!

    • @DavesMathVideos
      @DavesMathVideos ปีที่แล้ว

      This is something I might imagine would be on a Putnam, especially with that Laplace transform towards the end...

    • @minwithoutintroduction
      @minwithoutintroduction ปีที่แล้ว

      هذا هو عمل الخبراء.

  • @marsgal42
    @marsgal42 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I could see the complex exponentials coming to unify the trigonometric and hyperbolic functions. The Laplace Transform and Basel Problem were icing on the cake.

  • @khoozu7802
    @khoozu7802 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Small mistake at 10.58
    U cannot put 1/n outside the summation and multiply it with x=t/n
    U should put x=t/n inside the summation and multiply it with 1/n
    Then u will get the same solution in the rest of the video

  • @a52productions
    @a52productions ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Introducing s, taking its antiderivative, and then using that to complete a known Laplace transform was an absolutely slick move. I had to pause and go over it to make sure it was valid -- it's almost magic!

  • @12semitones57
    @12semitones57 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Does anyone think the thumbnail looks a little off? The LaTeX integral seems to use expressions like $cos(x)$ instead of $\cos(x)$.

  • @tolberthobson2610
    @tolberthobson2610 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cool Integral!!! Lots of fun tricks

  • @insouciantFox
    @insouciantFox ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember having to so the Fourier transform of a very similar function. It was a nightmare.

  • @wolfmanjacksaid
    @wolfmanjacksaid ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Wow this problem had almost everything. Having said that, I think it's high time we saw some differential equations with Bessel function solutions on the channel!?

  • @taw3e8
    @taw3e8 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice cut at 12:30, hard to notice :)
    Btw cool integral, hiw did you come up with it?

  • @jneal4154
    @jneal4154 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank goodness he closed the parentheses. 😅

  • @navierstokes2356
    @navierstokes2356 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Credits to Wolfram Alpha

  • @manucitomx
    @manucitomx ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Gnarly!
    Thank you, professor!

  • @Stopinvadingmyhardware
    @Stopinvadingmyhardware ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks!

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank YOU for the support!
      -Stephanie
      MP Editor

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    15:37

  • @veselindimov307
    @veselindimov307 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Seeing both cos and cosh led me to think that this won't be easy

  • @michaelbaum6796
    @michaelbaum6796 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow, this is a real subtle solution, a very very fascinating solution👌

  • @gniedu
    @gniedu ปีที่แล้ว +2

    No need to take the imaginary part before the end. Keeping it as e^(ix) would make the following integral much easier

  • @ow7398
    @ow7398 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    At 12:20 when you pull the derivative out of the integral, why is that possible? Does it have anything to do with the dominated convergence theorem? Do you have a video where you explain how that actually works/when it can and can't be applied?

  • @sagarmajumder7806
    @sagarmajumder7806 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Here comes our integral slayer. 🔥🔥🔥

    • @tioa.p.1058
      @tioa.p.1058 ปีที่แล้ว

      ahahaha love thatt🔥

  • @artsmith1347
    @artsmith1347 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I was nervous when the denominator was rolled into Imaginary operator at 3:45.
    Also, at 7:35: don't we need to confirm that we are inside the radius of convergence when applying the formula for the sum of a geometric series?
    The role of 'r' in a geometric series seems to be played by "e^(-x) * e^(ix)" -- how do we know this value remains less than one, especially when it is in an integral where the value of 'x' can be anywhere between zero and infinity?
    I see the formula for a geometric series used similarly on other channels and everyone treats it as legit, but I haven't worked through the details to stop me from wondering when I see it used in integrals over ranges much greater than from -1 to 1.

    • @TheEternalVortex42
      @TheEternalVortex42 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      |e^ix| = 1 and |e^-x| < 1 (for x > 0) so we're fine

    • @artsmith1347
      @artsmith1347 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheEternalVortex42 Thank you. This was clear: |e^-x| < 1 (for x > 1). It was less clear for 0

    • @RexxSchneider
      @RexxSchneider ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@artsmith1347 But the _product_ of |e^ix| and |e^-x| must be strictly less than 1 for all x > 0, so we're good.

    • @artsmith1347
      @artsmith1347 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RexxSchneider Got it. Thank you.

  • @Alan-zf2tt
    @Alan-zf2tt ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Okay - love this way of doing math. Sometimes math elsewhere but here has a step by step linearity constrained by the topic or theme. In these videos the mathematician professor shows how every tool in the Math toolbox can be used working laterally (I mean lateral and linear thinking coexisting dynamically!).
    But the main reason I write is continuum. Can anything really be distinct in a continuum? As soon as there is a partitioning of a continuum doesn't that mean we have two continuums separated at a point of partition?
    For example each graph to add context and interpretation needs to have a scalar somewhere along each axis or a vertex and line segment or ... . Isn't that a partitioning by labeling?
    And if so doesn't it imply that meaningful interpretation is only added after a partitioning process?
    I think I may be overthinking this or alternatively overlooking something trivial with aim being that only the quotients seem to give ordering and clumping of things together as meaningful.

  • @MultiNeurons
    @MultiNeurons ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonderful job!

  • @nickruffmath
    @nickruffmath ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautiful!

  • @maxniemi4584
    @maxniemi4584 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I want the official names of cosh and sinh to be coshine and shine

  • @GandalfTheWise0002
    @GandalfTheWise0002 ปีที่แล้ว

    EDIT: The integrand x^k Sin(x)/( Cos(x) + Cosh(x)) can be solved in closed form with some straightforward extensions to this derivation. The key is that the x->t/n substitution changes the Laplace transform to L(t^k Sin(t)) instead of L(t Sin(t)) and the power of (1/n)^2 in the sum goes to (1/n)^(k+2). The Laplace transform yields 2^(-(1/2) - k/2) Gamma[1 + k] Sin[1/4 (1 + k) Pi]. And the sum yields 2^-j (-2 + 2^j) Zeta[j] where j is k+1. The value of the integral of x^k Sin(x)/(Cos(x)+Cosh(x)) is the Laplace transform value times the sum value. x^1 gives Pi^2/12 as here. x^2 -> 3/4 Zeta(3), x^3->0, x^4-> 45/8 Zeta(5), x^5-> 31/1008 Pi^6, x^6-> 2835/32 Zeta(7), and x^7 ->0.
    Original comment: It's interesting that a similar method works for x^k in the numerator instead of just x^1. The Laplace Transform becomes more complicated but has a closed form 2^(-(1/2) - k/2) Gamma[1 + k] Sin[1/4 (1 + k) Pi]. The sum on n is trivial to change since the x->t/n substitution just changes the power of n in the sum which works out to 2^-j (-2 + 2^j) Zeta[j] where j is the power of (1/n)^j in the sum. The only changes to the video are the Laplace transform being for t^k Sin[t] instead of t Sin[t] and the power of (1/n) in the sum.

    • @sleepykitten2168
      @sleepykitten2168 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Can you say that in english?

    • @GandalfTheWise0002
      @GandalfTheWise0002 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sleepykitten2168 Edited and cleaned up a bit. :)

    • @sleepykitten2168
      @sleepykitten2168 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@GandalfTheWise0002 Oh its fine lol, I was just making a joke about how little math I knew.

    • @GandalfTheWise0002
      @GandalfTheWise0002 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sleepykitten2168 :). Actually, it did really need to be cleaned up. Good to see people of all levels of math skills following a channel like this.

  • @vasilisr7
    @vasilisr7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very beautiful integral

  • @gregevgeni1864
    @gregevgeni1864 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great content!
    Thanks

  • @JalebJay
    @JalebJay ปีที่แล้ว

    One of the things I first thought of doing was to write the denominator at e^x+e^(ix)+e^(-x)+e^(-ix). I'm blanking if there is a cyclic function that works with those, though.

    • @ericbischoff9444
      @ericbischoff9444 ปีที่แล้ว

      Same here. I think the beginning would have been a bit less complicated with that - but I did not try doing the computations to see if that works out.

  • @Ron_DeForest
    @Ron_DeForest ปีที่แล้ว

    I’d love to see a practical use of this level of math. Just a thought.

    • @frankjohnson123
      @frankjohnson123 ปีที่แล้ว

      I can appreciate the desire for practical applications, but imo separation of theory and examples is the most efficient method of conducting science and math. It's better for theoreticians to spit out the theory without any filler and practicians to seek out the relevant theory for their specific application. Hopefully the latter group also makes their work public so other people can learn from the examples.

  • @laurencewigton2463
    @laurencewigton2463 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mathematica was able to show that Integrate[x*Sin[x]/(Cos[x]+Cosh[x]),{x,-Infinity,Infinity}] = Pi^2/6. When I used the residual theorem to evaluate:
    Integrate[X*Exp[I*x]/(Cos[x]+Cosh[x]),{x,-Infinity,Infinity}] using all the poles in the upper half plane I got:
    2*Pi*I *Sum[2*(1+2*n)*Pi/(1+Exp[Pi+2*n*Pi]),{n,0,Infinity}]. Mathematica was not able to evaluate this Sum. However Numercally I was able to confirm this was the right answer. This Sum is very rapidly converging which makes it interesting.

    • @SiphonSoulsX
      @SiphonSoulsX ปีที่แล้ว

      I came up with a formula very similar to yours (through residues): 2\[Pi]^2 Sum[(2 k + 1)/(1 + Exp[\[Pi] (2 k + 1)]), {k, 0, \[Infinity]}] and Mathematica correctly evaluated it to \[Pi]^2/12.
      The problem is, I don't know how to evaluate the series by hand.

    • @laurencewigton2463
      @laurencewigton2463 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@SiphonSoulsX Since Mathematica was able to do your Sum it should have been able to do my Sum since they are so closely related. I already contacted the Mathematica guys about these observations. Unfortunately Mathematica does not reveal the algorithms they are using.

  • @somedude1666
    @somedude1666 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The laplace transform part looks an awful lot like differentiating under the integral...is that how RF figured out the technique?

    • @jip789
      @jip789 ปีที่แล้ว

      The technique was known to Leibnitz; RF popularised it after reading it in a book.

    • @somedude1666
      @somedude1666 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jip789 well shit. That's nuts lol.

  • @memesThatDank
    @memesThatDank ปีที่แล้ว

    amazing video

  • @Ssilki_V_Profile
    @Ssilki_V_Profile ปีที่แล้ว

    When is it safe to swap integration and differentiation signs?

  • @ralvarezb78
    @ralvarezb78 ปีที่แล้ว

    At first look, I guess using Euler relationships between trigonometric and hyperbolic functions ?

  • @wagsman9999
    @wagsman9999 ปีที่แล้ว

    Impressive!

  • @The1RandomFool
    @The1RandomFool ปีที่แล้ว

    What an unusual integral.

  • @mathuriranjan2440
    @mathuriranjan2440 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome!

  • @arvasugupta
    @arvasugupta ปีที่แล้ว

    complexo-Laplace which is hidden inside an integral.

  • @GustavoMerchan79
    @GustavoMerchan79 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting how he used the Im() function

  • @Harry-gc8kb
    @Harry-gc8kb ปีที่แล้ว

    do you not do discrete math on math majors?

  • @digxx
    @digxx ปีที่แล้ว

    You can also solve this using contour integration.

  • @thatonemailbox
    @thatonemailbox ปีที่แล้ว +1

    To whoever edited the thumbnail, don’t forget to add your backward slashes before your trig functions in LaTeX! $\sin x$, not $sin x$, and so on

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  ปีที่แล้ว

      It's actually because of your comment that I know about this now and haven't repeated the mistake. So thank you!
      -Stephanie
      Editor