Frankly I'm very impressed by how professional things are in the US while here in France there are rank amateurs. There is no real choise of gas mixtures and when I went into a major welding supplier and asked what silicon bronze rods they had, the storeman tittered and made a reference to Pamela Anderson. He'd never even heard of the material. Keep up the good work, it's inspiring.
I really appreciate the way you edit your videos. Your music isn't blaring and I don't have to skip sections or run them at 1.5 speed like I do for a lot of other videos I watch.
Thank you. I've learned from my mistakes and what I personally don't care for about other videos. I try to keep the pace moving and not repeating things unless it's important to reiterate so it is good to hear you say that Mark.
Good morning sir, hey thank you for a very informative video. You make that seam look like it was born there with that. Thanks for a great video and you take care.
Something else to consider is that you can buy .023" silicon bronze MIG wire. Works fantastic after some practice getting voltage and wire speed dialed in. Still have to use 100% argon shielding gas. I used this on a lap joint where my trans tunnel met the firewall. I felt it used even less heat input because it moves much quicker and a much smaller heat affected zone. Great channel BTW always look forward to new vids
That is probably a more attainable entry point for many folks. My only question is it a bit soft? I mean do you have to very straight with the whip or risk bird nests? I know with aluminum wire spools that is a concern due to the whip liner drag. Thus why push-pull torches and spool guns exist. Thank you by the way 👍👍
@@HotRodHippie yes, in a general sense i tried to keep the whip in a gentle loop, but didn't fixate on keeping it perfectly straight. It did birdnest on me once when the wire burnt back to the tip for some reason and stuck. But in general it was only a minor concern.
I tried using the MIG type and felt like it built up much thicker no matter what I tried. It has a thin window that it runs smoothly and builds up to much weld to take back off. Brazing body panels TIG like this guy is saying is how I build 400k customs every week. You only put on what you need and I use the 3M clean and strip pro to clean up the welds. Like the brown rol locks but bigger with more grinding surfaces and more flexible. Can’t go wrong😉
Fantastic information.. I have an old honda 3 wheeler gas tank with a couple rust holes near the petcock & i'm going to Silicon Bronze fix em!! Thank you Kindly Dan!! One DanL to another..
As it used Electric current from a TIG welder to work there is a semantics argument to be made. Some base material DOES fuse into the filler material. You should aim to keep this to a minimum but it does happen. As such it is very technically welding. I get your point but arguments could be made is all im saying.
@@jagboy69 I agree overall Brazing is likely the more correct term just playing devils advocate that saying welding isn't 100% wrong and helps to differentiate a bit.
Let's see if I can lay the brazing vs welding matter to rest once and for all. The AWS brazing handbook, Chapter 19, refers to the process known as "Braze Welding", which is what is being shown in this video. You see, brazing, which includes a few sub-processes, involves a liquid filler metal drawn into a joint via capillary action. In Braze Welding the filler is not drawn in, but deposited on. It often looks like a weld because of the non-flowing properties of the filler. For those who say "this isn't welding" you are almost there. "This isn't Fusion Welding" would be correct. Most welders, though, only mean Fusion Welding when they say Welding. Those of you who say "this is brazing" are almost there. "This is Braze Welding" would be correct. You don't have to like the term, but the AWS is the boss of what we call stuff, so I defer to them.
Technically brazing is not a weld since welding is flowing base metals together usually with a similar filler alloy and mostly steel. Brazing and soldering use a disimilar metal and uses the adhesion properties of the filler metal to provide a joint. Tensile strength of Silicon Bronze, while lower can provide amazingly high tensile values (50,000 psi). It can allow you to joint metals like stainless, brass, copper to very dissimilar metals such as mild steel. It's melting temperatures can allow you to joint small thin forms to large ones where welding would cause holes in the thin items.
I think you might have some things mixed up. Silicon Bronze filler is used for brazing. So the process you're using is brazing not welding. The main difference is brazing doesn't melt the base metal. Edit: I saw you're reply to this in another comment - " As it used Electric current from a TIG welder to work there is a semantics argument to be made. Some base material DOES fuse into the filler material. You should aim to keep this to a minimum but it does happen. As such it is very technically welding. I get your point but arguments could be made is all im saying." Fair enough.
Thanks for looking deeper. I appreciate when people check the other comments as well. Truly it's TIG Brazing, you are correct. Force of habit for me to call it welding and there is some base material fusion in my experience so I stand by that comment.
I believe he was using. 060" filler rod in the video. He did discuss that he uses. 045" and. 060" depending on how much filler he wants in a given situation. I edited that part out for time savings unfortunately.
Great question. The rod diameter used in the video is .060. I also use .045 in some places as well, depending on the type of joint, metal thickness, etc.
Brilliant video! Just a quick question. I can't help but wonder why would you choose this type of weld over a normal tig or mig to use on the car? Isn't this a less strong weld? Just curious as to what the purpose of this is. I currently use your usual tig or mig depending on what area of the car.
I wouldn't use it in place of a standard Tig or mig weld. However for say welding up a seam as Dan discussed doing, it would require less heat input to do so with Silicon Bronze. The less input would mean less chance of distortion, less burning into the panels as you do (risking drawing out impurities between the seam), and less chance of causing undesired metallurgy changes to the base material. Often the weakest point of a good weld is the base material right next to the weld. This has less of those possibilities. Like I said, I would still properly spotweld a panel together before considering doing this. It is absolutely weaker than a normal TIG or MiG weld but when used in conjunction with them you end up with an overall stronger piece.
If the joint is already lapped and spot welded and all you are doing is brazing it up, strip it to bare metal. I use a stripping disc on a die grinder to remove as much as I can. Weld through primer isn't meant for that and will interfere and contaminate. As for the POR metal prep, I've only used that when doing POR-15 application so I cannot say it would work well. I just physically strip my joints then wipe them down with a "Wax & Grease" remover or Lacquer Thinner to clean the surface first. Hope this helps.
I've seen some folks use this method for seam welding race cars. I'd still maybe stitch the seams with a regular steel TIG rod first, but finish in between with the Silicon Bronze for an overall lighter yet function setup.
I was recently turned on to this process by another customer while picking up supplies. After I was done with my project, I was purchasing some body fillers and comparing different lines. Unbeknownst to me, some body fillers are specifically state they are Not designed to be applied over Silicone Bronze Welds. Hopefully my Epoxy primer covered those joints
Could you share what fillers say that? I'm genuinely curious about that and would love to know. I have not come across any, but I'm not usually the one bodyworking my work.
Can you do this process with mig silicone broze as opposed to tig is there more heat imput Could you use a weld through primer with this process or bare clean metal would it have to be etched Is there any danger in distorting the unibody like stich welding can you run one full bead Thank you in advance
You can MIG it but I would only recommend that with a good setup. Namely a Spool Gun or a Push Pull gun. A normal Push style gun will result in the wire bird nesting and binding up because it is so soft. Also the TIG allows for finer heat input, which goes to answering your second question. If you don't put in too much heat you shouldn't distort the metal. You need JUST enough to melt the silicon bronze, which melts a fair bit lower than steel. Basically I'd personally recommend only TIG with this method. If you happen to have an equipped MIG, I'd be surprised if you didn't also have a TIG then.
I primer those panels with a self etching primer before install. For spot welded panels I tape off just the spots where a weld will be, and primer the rest. For seam welds I tape off about 5/8"-1" away from from the weld joint and primer everything else. Beyond that your best bet is to drill an access hole and use a Cavity Spray. Cavity Sprays should be available from local Auto Body Supply Houses. Then you just install a rubber plug (with some gasket maker isn't a bad idea). A lot of cars have these access holes for this express purpose. Say on Rocker Panels.
Would silicone bronze wire (.025) work well with a 100 amp mig welder to weld bronze plates together? It would be just like you showed but with bronze plates instead of body metal..
Using the wire in a small mig will be quite difficult. Since it is so soft it has a tendency to bird's nest very easily in the machine. A spool gun or push/pull type torch would be the preferred method to mig weld with it. And those are spendy options, if even available for your machine. That said if you keep the whip very straight, use the proper torch liner, and clean everything beforehand you may well be successful. I'm probably making it sound worse than it is but I just want to be realistic. All that said yes you can most likely do it just fine. It won't be a strong joint but if assume this isn't something structural. Are you sure it is Bronze and not Brass? I've done brass before (TIG) and it is quite messy because the zinc burns out of the metal when you weld.
What if it wasn't silicon bronze in particular, but rather the type of bronze rod that's used with gas-torch brazing, which has no silicon in it? What would happen then?
Don't use it. It has zinc and other nasties that will be released by the high temps that the tig arc produces. Silicon and aluminium bronze is made FOR the TIG.
Zinc fumes, zinc fume fever, probably mess up your TIG torch, too! You're talking about "low fuming bronze", but it does "fume", and you won't like it. When you do this with a torch, you can control that fuming by making the flame very slightly oxidizing, and of course flux helps. It's an interesting demo! A reducing flame will give lots of "smoke", and when you take the flame away the bronze might still be burning a little, which is an odd thing to see. The demo is to get some molten brazing rod on a surface, and turn the oxygen up and down a little and watch the "smoke" come and go. Anyway, that's a digression here, since we're talking about TIG!
Check out Dan's Workshop classes here: holohanshotrods.com/tigweldingfabrication/
Frankly I'm very impressed by how professional things are in the US while here in France there are rank amateurs. There is no real choise of gas mixtures and when I went into a major welding supplier and asked what silicon bronze rods they had, the storeman tittered and made a reference to Pamela Anderson. He'd never even heard of the material. Keep up the good work, it's inspiring.
Never thought of using silicon bronze like that. Pretty useful video
I really appreciate the way you edit your videos. Your music isn't blaring and I don't have to skip sections or run them at 1.5 speed like I do for a lot of other videos I watch.
Thank you. I've learned from my mistakes and what I personally don't care for about other videos. I try to keep the pace moving and not repeating things unless it's important to reiterate so it is good to hear you say that Mark.
A good grinder shows/knows what a welder can do!
I have been playing with MIG Brazing in my furniture, it reminds me of the lug welds on my Raleigh.
Imma need to check this class out.
Wow, wish I had seen this four years ago. Move from Charlotte to Albuquerque in Aug2021.
Thank you very much !!!! I’ve been trying to figure out how to deal with this very thing and no one has been able to tell me until right now !!!!
Good morning sir, hey thank you for a very informative video. You make that seam look like it was born there with that. Thanks for a great video and you take care.
Thank you and Thanks for commenting it is appreciated.
Something else to consider is that you can buy .023" silicon bronze MIG wire. Works fantastic after some practice getting voltage and wire speed dialed in. Still have to use 100% argon shielding gas. I used this on a lap joint where my trans tunnel met the firewall. I felt it used even less heat input because it moves much quicker and a much smaller heat affected zone. Great channel BTW always look forward to new vids
That is probably a more attainable entry point for many folks. My only question is it a bit soft? I mean do you have to very straight with the whip or risk bird nests? I know with aluminum wire spools that is a concern due to the whip liner drag. Thus why push-pull torches and spool guns exist.
Thank you by the way 👍👍
@@HotRodHippie yes, in a general sense i tried to keep the whip in a gentle loop, but didn't fixate on keeping it perfectly straight. It did birdnest on me once when the wire burnt back to the tip for some reason and stuck. But in general it was only a minor concern.
I tried using the MIG type and felt like it built up much thicker no matter what I tried. It has a thin window that it runs smoothly and builds up to much weld to take back off. Brazing body panels TIG like this guy is saying is how I build 400k customs every week. You only put on what you need and I use the 3M clean and strip pro to clean up the welds. Like the brown rol locks but bigger with more grinding surfaces and more flexible. Can’t go wrong😉
Fantastic information.. I have an old honda 3 wheeler gas tank with a couple rust holes near the petcock & i'm going to Silicon Bronze fix em!! Thank you Kindly Dan!! One DanL to another..
Every time he said "weld" instead of "braze" I died a little inside.
As it used Electric current from a TIG welder to work there is a semantics argument to be made. Some base material DOES fuse into the filler material. You should aim to keep this to a minimum but it does happen. As such it is very technically welding. I get your point but arguments could be made is all im saying.
@@HotRodHippie wow I didn't know that. Thanks! 🙂
Tig Brazing is more accurate. Same is done with an oxy torch, but controlling the heat is harder.
@@jagboy69 I agree overall Brazing is likely the more correct term just playing devils advocate that saying welding isn't 100% wrong and helps to differentiate a bit.
th-cam.com/video/mTw1-yag3IY/w-d-xo.html Jody produced this today.
What a beautiful puppy!!!!! 💓💓💓💓💓💓💓
That doggo is so cute
Excellent I will be trying this.
The more I look into silicon bronze brazing the more I want to try it with my everlast tig welder.
Give it a try. It takes a little getting used to, but it can be a handy technique to add to your repertoire once you get it down.
Let's see if I can lay the brazing vs welding matter to rest once and for all. The AWS brazing handbook, Chapter 19, refers to the process known as "Braze Welding", which is what is being shown in this video. You see, brazing, which includes a few sub-processes, involves a liquid filler metal drawn into a joint via capillary action. In Braze Welding the filler is not drawn in, but deposited on. It often looks like a weld because of the non-flowing properties of the filler. For those who say "this isn't welding" you are almost there. "This isn't Fusion Welding" would be correct. Most welders, though, only mean Fusion Welding when they say Welding. Those of you who say "this is brazing" are almost there. "This is Braze Welding" would be correct. You don't have to like the term, but the AWS is the boss of what we call stuff, so I defer to them.
American Welding Society.. Americans always been a bit liberal with the use of the English language
Awesome video! This gives me an idea for my current build. Thanks for the great content!
Always happy to help and hear good feedback. Thank you 👍👍
Technically brazing is not a weld since welding is flowing base metals together usually with a similar filler alloy and mostly steel. Brazing and soldering use a disimilar metal and uses the adhesion properties of the filler metal to provide a joint. Tensile strength of Silicon Bronze, while lower can provide amazingly high tensile values (50,000 psi). It can allow you to joint metals like stainless, brass, copper to very dissimilar metals such as mild steel. It's melting temperatures can allow you to joint small thin forms to large ones where welding would cause holes in the thin items.
Some base metal is mixing with the filler. You're arguing semantics.
Sounds perfect for me I mig weld was thinking of gettinto tig..
I think you might have some things mixed up. Silicon Bronze filler is used for brazing. So the process you're using is brazing not welding. The main difference is brazing doesn't melt the base metal.
Edit: I saw you're reply to this in another comment - "
As it used Electric current from a TIG welder to work there is a semantics argument to be made. Some base material DOES fuse into the filler material. You should aim to keep this to a minimum but it does happen. As such it is very technically welding. I get your point but arguments could be made is all im saying."
Fair enough.
Thanks for looking deeper. I appreciate when people check the other comments as well.
Truly it's TIG Brazing, you are correct. Force of habit for me to call it welding and there is some base material fusion in my experience so I stand by that comment.
Amazing video. What size filler rod is recommended for the 18 gauge he was using?
I believe he was using. 060" filler rod in the video. He did discuss that he uses. 045" and. 060" depending on how much filler he wants in a given situation. I edited that part out for time savings unfortunately.
Great question. The rod diameter used in the video is .060. I also use .045 in some places as well, depending on the type of joint, metal thickness, etc.
Brilliant video! Just a quick question. I can't help but wonder why would you choose this type of weld over a normal tig or mig to use on the car? Isn't this a less strong weld? Just curious as to what the purpose of this is. I currently use your usual tig or mig depending on what area of the car.
I wouldn't use it in place of a standard Tig or mig weld. However for say welding up a seam as Dan discussed doing, it would require less heat input to do so with Silicon Bronze. The less input would mean less chance of distortion, less burning into the panels as you do (risking drawing out impurities between the seam), and less chance of causing undesired metallurgy changes to the base material. Often the weakest point of a good weld is the base material right next to the weld. This has less of those possibilities. Like I said, I would still properly spotweld a panel together before considering doing this. It is absolutely weaker than a normal TIG or MiG weld but when used in conjunction with them you end up with an overall stronger piece.
Met dan years ago. Dan's the man!!
The best video thanks guys
Thank you very much
Does the Body Filler stick well to the Silicon Bronze
Very interesting video. I don't Tig yet, but the neighbor is set up and he is only 800' away.
I TIG the vast majority of my work. It isn't a quick skill to learn but it is a valuable one.
On a lap welded body seam what prep is best before brazing
Weld through primer
Por 15 metal prep
If the joint is already lapped and spot welded and all you are doing is brazing it up, strip it to bare metal. I use a stripping disc on a die grinder to remove as much as I can. Weld through primer isn't meant for that and will interfere and contaminate. As for the POR metal prep, I've only used that when doing POR-15 application so I cannot say it would work well. I just physically strip my joints then wipe them down with a "Wax & Grease" remover or Lacquer Thinner to clean the surface first. Hope this helps.
Noticed when you said hands on, the dog put his hands on lol
Just like seam welding a race car. Just with bronze.
May still make less flex, but not risk distortion of chassis as much
I've seen some folks use this method for seam welding race cars. I'd still maybe stitch the seams with a regular steel TIG rod first, but finish in between with the Silicon Bronze for an overall lighter yet function setup.
I will be doing this to all my seams, no more seam sealer
It's a lot of work but an interesting technique to create a sleeker finished product. Good luck with the process 👍
I was recently turned on to this process by another customer while picking up supplies. After I was done with my project, I was purchasing some body fillers and comparing different lines. Unbeknownst to me, some body fillers are specifically state they are Not designed to be applied over Silicone Bronze Welds. Hopefully my Epoxy primer covered those joints
Could you share what fillers say that? I'm genuinely curious about that and would love to know. I have not come across any, but I'm not usually the one bodyworking my work.
Can you do this process with mig silicone broze as opposed to tig is there more heat imput
Could you use a weld through primer with this process or bare clean metal would it have to be etched
Is there any danger in distorting the unibody like stich welding can you run one full bead
Thank you in advance
You can MIG it but I would only recommend that with a good setup. Namely a Spool Gun or a Push Pull gun. A normal Push style gun will result in the wire bird nesting and binding up because it is so soft.
Also the TIG allows for finer heat input, which goes to answering your second question. If you don't put in too much heat you shouldn't distort the metal. You need JUST enough to melt the silicon bronze, which melts a fair bit lower than steel.
Basically I'd personally recommend only TIG with this method. If you happen to have an equipped MIG, I'd be surprised if you didn't also have a TIG then.
great vid....will check it out ….thanks
Thank you!
What would be best for a rust repair panel where you can't treat the back side to prevent future rust
I primer those panels with a self etching primer before install. For spot welded panels I tape off just the spots where a weld will be, and primer the rest. For seam welds I tape off about 5/8"-1" away from from the weld joint and primer everything else.
Beyond that your best bet is to drill an access hole and use a Cavity Spray. Cavity Sprays should be available from local Auto Body Supply Houses. Then you just install a rubber plug (with some gasket maker isn't a bad idea). A lot of cars have these access holes for this express purpose. Say on Rocker Panels.
This is a demonstration of braze welding and not brazing
Would silicone bronze wire (.025) work well with a 100 amp mig welder to weld bronze plates together? It would be just like you showed but with bronze plates instead of body metal..
Using the wire in a small mig will be quite difficult. Since it is so soft it has a tendency to bird's nest very easily in the machine. A spool gun or push/pull type torch would be the preferred method to mig weld with it. And those are spendy options, if even available for your machine.
That said if you keep the whip very straight, use the proper torch liner, and clean everything beforehand you may well be successful.
I'm probably making it sound worse than it is but I just want to be realistic. All that said yes you can most likely do it just fine. It won't be a strong joint but if assume this isn't something structural. Are you sure it is Bronze and not Brass? I've done brass before (TIG) and it is quite messy because the zinc burns out of the metal when you weld.
Puppy dog... pat the puppy :)
The pup got plentiful pats.
cute puppy. He/she is getting big real fast., LOL
What if it wasn't silicon bronze in particular, but rather the type of bronze rod that's used with gas-torch brazing, which has no silicon in it? What would happen then?
Don't use it. It has zinc and other nasties that will be released by the high temps that the tig arc produces. Silicon and aluminium bronze is made FOR the TIG.
Steve Phillips Right right. It’s the zinc boiling out that causes the spattering. That’s what I’ve picked up so far anyway.
@@craigrmeyer It is bad for your health. Just get some silicon bronze.
Steve Phillips Oh right. Zinc fumes. I’ve heard they’re poisonous.
Zinc fumes, zinc fume fever, probably mess up your TIG torch, too! You're talking about "low fuming bronze", but it does "fume", and you won't like it. When you do this with a torch, you can control that fuming by making the flame very slightly oxidizing, and of course flux helps. It's an interesting demo! A reducing flame will give lots of "smoke", and when you take the flame away the bronze might still be burning a little, which is an odd thing to see. The demo is to get some molten brazing rod on a surface, and turn the oxygen up and down a little and watch the "smoke" come and go. Anyway, that's a digression here, since we're talking about TIG!
Your dog wants some brass toenails
Have you ever used 9% nickel bronze
Wish people would quit calling brazing welding.
"Brazing"