Thanks for replying. I watched all the way to the end and if I understand you correctly, you think the reason repeaters are dead is that the younger generation finds the topic of discussions boring? The generation that is the smallest statistical group? I believe you said they want to talk about politics and curse? It kinda sounds like you’re saying repeaters are dead because repeaters don’t cater to young edge lords? There are about five repeaters here in SoCal that talk about “real things”, cars, guns, and day to day life, so I am not really sure your real reason has enough of a statistical impact here. *five repeaters in about a fifty miles radius I should add.
I am going off my experience and the experience of other people that are my age. It's not that we WANT to just be edgy on the air. It's that we want to be able to talk like you would IRL and not be chastised for it by the bootlicking hall monitor types. Sometimes that does mean using certain four letter words or discussing more "xxx" topics. But that's life. This "professional" watered down way of talking that is pushed on new, young hams from the start is a perfect way to make them lose interest. It certainly did me, and pretty much everyone I talked to. For example, at the 2020 Hamfest In Huntsville. We goofed off on 146.520. People hated it. BUT!! I had a large number of actual young hams tell me that they wouldn't have even been on the radio that day if it weren't for what my group did. That's proof right there, that the generation that's replacing the old one has a very different way of operating, and that's not a bad thing.
@@ScuffedRadiobtw, I don’t disagree that people should talk normally on the radio, have fun etc. but the claim you made is that is what is killing repeaters and I just don’t see the numbers behind that.
@HamRadioCrashCourse you don't see the numbers because most people like me just give up and don't talk on the radio, and thus can't be "counted". I'm one of the first who actually fought back. So yes it's a difficult thing to prove with analytics... so I can only use my experience and the experience of others my age to make the claim. Wether you believe it or not is up to personal opinion but this is what I know to be true.
I'm a new ham, and I don't have any interest in random conversations with strangers, over a repeater. I'm interested in targeted comms, and the practices that come from that
Just two of the repeater systems around me in western Colorado reach multiple states and into Canada and are quite active. One of the repeater systems has 66 interconnected repeaters (some near me are connected only by microwave) and there is always someone willing to answer 24 hours a day. The entire reason I got into ham radio was because of the amazing repeater system out here and my love of the outdoors and my willingness to go to remote places alone (SOTA/POTA, hike, fish, Jeep, dirt bike/ATV, camp, etc). I live in rugged mountains with 14ers practically out my back door and there are many places that do not have cell service but just about everywhere out here has access at least one of the three major repeater systems. Everybody here seems well behaved and I have not run across a single sad ham or anyone correcting anyone's language or conversation or topic ever. I monitor 2 of those systems 24 hours a day and have for the last 6 years. There are quite a few nets throughout the week and some are quite interesting. There's a brother and sister in different cities and they have an afternoon chat several times a week about many different things and even though they're reaching out to 65 other repeaters, nobody cares. The only time I notice dead repeaters is when I travel outside of Colorado; I RARELY get a response when I reach out. Anyway, there are at least 2 repeater systems covering much of Colorado that are not dead and have not restricted anyone in my 6 years of around-the-clock listening. I have noticed that calling "CQ" on any repeater system (unless that person is from Malta or Japan for example) will not yield as many responses as just asking for a radio check or quick chat. Thanks so much for the video. If you want a topic to evaluate, try hams' experiences with amateur radio clubs. 73
Over here in Nova Scotia Canada our repeaters are all linked except for the odd one or two. They are linkable across 3 provinces and they get linked up and used for a net every weekday morning and they get used for a couple nets per week. Those repeaters all work when cell phones don't. We don't have anyone being grumpy or controlling on them. The morning net is very popular and it always goes into overtime with tons of check-ins. I have two local repeaters in my little town that we are encouraged to use by the repeater operators so they will be there when needed for emergency operations. Something that The video doesn't talk about is that every region will have a different experience... We don't have any digital mode repeaters in Nova Scotia, there is one DMR repeater in New Brunswick I think. Some are IRLP and Echo link enabled, and we welcome operators to join nets from wherever they are in the world. I like the fact that our repeaters are all analog VHF and UHF so we don't have have very expensive HTs and simple mobiles work without issues
Ham radio is just like society. People are not nearly as welcoming as they used to be and they have become very tribal. We are seeing what 75 meters has been like for ages, all over the bands now.
That's somewhat true, but its not everyone. There's a subset of hams that are very territorial especially when it comes to those nets on HF, but on the higher bands it's not so bad.
@ the other big issue that turns people off to new hams is you have a lot of the “ask google” type people who want the answers soon fed to them. Don’t get me wrong I have zero against teaching someone stuff being I was a high school science teacher. So teaching is in my very nature. But when someone asks me something and I give them a quick answer followed with sending them a PD F file saying there is a ton of info on that topic on pages 42-45. And then they come back to me being nasty having expected me to hold their hand every second of the way. The instant gratification types. But another issue like with repeaters is I have a several large coverage repeaters and I don’t mind helping others build a repeater. But you have so many now who want to build a backyard repeater and then get all upset when I tell them I don’t want them to link it in because its nothing but an endless sea of them playing with their repeater and kerchuhking it and that drives away users from bigger systems. But I do think we are seeing a lot more tribalism on VHF and UHF like we see on the 75 meters nets.
@@BVN-TEXAS I'm with you on the "instant gratification" types. Nothing gets me more excited then someone sending me a pdf with info for me to sift through. I learn a lot that way. Backyard repeaters are a growing trend, and I'm guilty of that too, but I at least use mine a lot and don't just kerchunk it all day. But you gotta just be careful who you let onto a network these days because as soon as someone's linked up they now always feel like they have part ownership of ALL the systems in question and start trying to police the whole thing. Hence why I never let people have permanent sites on my network unless they are very well vetted.
@ i don’t just send them a PDF file lol. I will take time to explain a concept but I will follow it up with links and a PDF from the ARRL handbook or antenna book which has photos and such. But no I don’t just say here read this your answer is in these ten pages. That would piss me off too. But half the way you learn is when you are looking for one answer and the things you come across along the way. If they can’t even read a few pages after I’ve sat on the phone with them for 20 minutes, ham radio isn’t the hobby for you. Part of the hobby is a lot of self teaching and research and learning. Hell I wish I had the amount of resources hams today have on the internet back when I got in at the age of 13 in the late 80s. And anyone with a major repeater on a comemericsl roof top started with a small backyard repeater to learn things. We all did. I don’t fault them for that but like you said you let them connect and suddenly they think they are HNIC and start running people off.
@BVN-TEXAS you're doing the lords work haha... anyone would be lucky to get help from you. But yeah if you can't read a few pages of a pdf then you probably aren't ready to try anything advanced. I think that ham radio can be for anyone, even the least technologically inclined, they just gotta know their limits.
Tried talking with the "trustees" of the club repeater, showing massive interest and wanted to get more information regarding the software usage and requirements for programming the hardware, as well as tuning the transmitting and receiving circuitry for optimum RX/TX. Getting the cold shoulder treatment was putting it lightly, with a holier than thou attitude. I guess the extra class license means nothing to these old, grumpy gatekeepers, or having the knowledge of a graduated EE degree that did not just memorize to regurgitate test answers. Do they want to gatekeep their knowledge, thinking that it is not freely available to a discerning individual that can pick the grains of truth from the swaths of chaff that is freely available? I don't comprehend the attitude, nor have any inkling whatsoever to put a modicum of effort into trying to figure it out. I have better things to occupy my time with. The repeater still sounds like feces, with massive amounts of static after 10 seconds of transmission, and sporadic interference at random intervals that I doubt will be fixed anytime soon. 🤦♂
As someone who owns a few repeaters I run into two types of hams looking for info. Some like you really want info and really want to learn and are very receptive. These types are very rare. The majority are the ones who want you to spoon feed them every little bit of information and hold their hand. And when you send them some links of pages with tons of info for them to read they get furious because they have the instant gratification type. I also run into a lot who want to build a desk top repeater which is cool but then they want to link into my system and when I politely tell them no they get all upset. I love teaching and helping new hams get on the air. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve helped new hams install mobile radios and such. But so many of the new and young hams don’t want to do any “leg work” or meet you in the middle. They want an Elmer to a be like “ask google” and a lot of us just burned out with it.
For good or ill, we allow Ecolink on our local repeater. The repeater became famous during Helene. We've had non-locals log in to that repeater and start correcting locals on how they should transmit or how they should set up Ecolink. Some folks listening in on Ecolink were targeted by these folks for correction - even though they were not transmitting. As long as a person gives a call sign and name when transmitting, no one really cares if they have their name in the right spot for Ecolink.
I agree with your assessment. Around here the 2m repeater and simplex is dead. I have heard one group have a meeting and heard one other time where there were a total of 3 guys talking. and I have been listening for about 3 months now every day and night. The 1.25m is a little more active. I hear a couple of guys about once a week.
Hams spend a lot of time and money on digital garbage trying to make radio more appealing. Meanwhile, they completely ignore or haze anybody who is just generally interested in the hobby.
I don’t have a opinion on your views pro or con , I do see your point about people taking a lot of the enjoyment out of radio but mainly I want to comment on the old school microwave tower that you’re showing…those are awesome … I never get tired of checking them out . Really cool 🇺🇸👍🏻
That's an old microwave tower that was very close to my old repeater site. Off of Telephone Tower Road in northern Alabama. It is THE Telephone Tower. Now it's used mainly for VHF/UHF analog repeaters for the various utility companies and businesses. It has one or two amateur repeaters on it as well. The location is fantastic, up on the northern end of a great mountain in the Huntsville area. Coverage is really good. My system was about a mile down the road and slightly higher and the range on VHF was fantastic.
@ I work for AT&T started with Bellsouth, my Dad retired from the phone company also. He worked on those towers back in the day … old Cold War era technology. Sounds like you have an awesome setup and location to operate. I live in Talladega and we have some of those in the nearby area but they are generally going to waste. I’d love to have the ability to utilize them, great channel and I also subscribed 👍🏻
@appalachianunderground8474 yeah they're pretty awesome. Always wanted to climb one. One day I'll get the chance. I think I met you and Trent at the Huntsville Hamfest, and we did the shootout in Gadsden.
Digital versus analog: it's a trade-off between digital pushing a few decibels deeper into the noise with forward error correction and never hearing scratchy faint audio versus analog sounding better when it is strong enough to be out of the noise. An old fashioned cliche my father used to say "one man's meat is another man's poison."
From the lab testing I've seen, (at least with D-Star) the digital mode underperformed vs. the analog FM mode. I've heard conflicting reports about that.
When i moved out from comiefornia to Alabama i got tired of people complaining and turning themselves into a victim after they caused a issue. This sounds like that with hams they cause a problem and now thier crying about it with digital stuff.
I agree with what you are saying at the end of the video...it's a HUGE problem and has been for a long time. However, I also agree with most, but not all, of what Josh and George are saying. I also agree that repeater activity and culture varies greatly around the country. Multiple things can be true at the same time.....
Some of their points are accurate... but I take a bigger issue with the way they present it. In reality, what they said is only 10% of the real problem. They won't address the bigger issue because it's too polarizing or too controversial and they don't want to be seen that way in the Amateur radio community.
@ScuffedRadio I could be wrong but I really don't think that's the case. But even if it is, I personally don't care what they chose to cover or not cover in their content. I've thought about covering this topic on my channel but struggle to see the value in doing so. The gatekeepers aren't going to change just because I'm calling them out. My video would serve to only reinforce the stance people have and make the divide deeper. Unlicenced people watching from the sidelines will see the arguments in the comments and get turned off. I may be wrong but I think that's why Josh tends to focus more on the positive most of the time.
@@ScuffedRadio perhaps, but it's been a problem since before I got my license in the early 90s and I don't think it's going to change until the gatekeepers are gone unfortunately. I feel it has gotten better over the years and slowly gets better over time as Josh and others normalize what you and I would consider "good" behavior. In other words, Josh is on our side. He's not the problem, he's part of the solution and choosing to address the issue in his own way.
@@SevenFortyOne I think even you and I disagree on what's "good behavior" I've seen your video on the KA1SHU (a friend of mine's repeater system) where you criticize the operators in the recording before the video even starts. That's what I mean when I say they won't address the real issue... they still either don't see the issue or are too afraid of the backlash if they do.
My thing is, i got late unto this ham game, last time i used a repeater when i visited family by vero florida with my handy talkie and normally in my area im to far away from a repeater im either 28 miles away from a repeater in one direction and 38 miles in a different direction. My main goal is to just rag chew when traveling in my troka and get up on a sick one with cw on qrp with hf playing with sota and pota.
When 10 M amateur band sounds quiet, on CB super channels, they are booming in like how many KW's are they running on there. I see 200 Amp power supplies listed by CB dealers. 😊
100% agree. Very well said! Repeater groups are so boring; all they ever talk about is radio hardware. The most interesting thing we discussed in my area lately was the Hurricane Helen relief effort because it was actually something that wasn’t as safe and predictable. People were complaining about FEMA, worried for loved ones, and sharing real concerns-finally, a real conversation! HF simplex is great because you can actually talk about whatever you want without some fudd repeater owner flipping out because you aren’t discussing a Bible verse or radio equipment. So much more freedom and way less dull!
At least you don't have to use a repeater on ham to talk around the world.......oh, I forgot, you can't talk around the world with a GMRS radio even with repeaters.
Barf. We use the ones around here, analog. SE Louisiana. I think it kind of depends on where you live. I am an IT person, I discourage linking over the Internet. I liked your opinion on this topic.
Exactly why they put those entries in part 97, no politics or religion. Don't want the people having free thought if it could possibly impact the government's grip on the people.
East of Tampa, FL our 440 MHz repeater is a dual mode FM+digital (switching between) that has a digital net two nights every week. That is all that I have heard about hereabouts. I think most new HAMS with technician licenses use VHF+UHF until they upgrade and discover the great fun of HF, ending their FM+digital interest. I think it takes a HAM club to keep a VHF and/or UHF repeater used and constantly monitored. Ron W4BIN
A single repeater can function successfully independent of a club, but you better put the time and effort in to make the machine sound really good and have great coverage while still being free speech orientated.
actually repeat it or not dead a lot of them are used on the net when they do their nets, also many people use them when they are commuting for safety here in New York City we got quite a few repeaters that I use, a lot on the 2 meter band,
A lot of repeaters today are not all in one. Most repeaters are two radios with a controller of some sort. Look at the massive market for Motorola CDM.
@ you laugh, there is tons on the air that way. As long as you follow it with a circulator and proper filtering. Hell pop the top on a XPR-8400 Motorola DMR repeater. It’s just two mobile radios with an interconnect board. What matters is when you have a circulator and filtering after it. Now don’t get me started on Bridgecom repeaters. Those are some baofemg of the repeaters
We are about to see a massive wave of declining numbers as the boomer generation dies out, plus there's a big difference between the number of licensed users on paper and the number of active users.
Digital, trunking etc. are measures taken by commercial operators due to a high volume of radio traffic and just a few channels available. Plus taxpayer money. Nowadays FM repeaters are pretty dead too, many lucky to have one use a day. Occasionally there is a local that gets a fairly large amount of use because everyone hears activity there and joins in. All the others around remain quiet. Traditional FM repeaters are sufficient for almost all ham radio uses IMO. You don't have to buy new gear, program it, bust your brains trying to figure it out etc. Even for emergency comms or public service we got more repeaters around here than demand requires. So why spend big bucks on a new super digital radio? I guess the digital wave is trying to keep up with the state of the art and make ham radio smarter or something but as long as activity is scarce, it is not being utilized to it's potential anyway.
Digital radio does reduce bandwidth usage, that's true, but as amateurs we simply DONT NEED that capability. I'd rather have a 12.5KHz wide digital signal that sounds really good then have a 4KHz wide digital signal that sounds like crap. Even the big Amateur names like Yaesu and iCom still act like we hams care about bandwidth. That's why I like analog. Sure, it's more simple and easier to use. But it just sounds far better and is more enjoyable to listen to.
OH and the highly touted GMRS has the potential to devolve just like AM CB did. AM CB started out same concept as GMRS. But radios were expensive and FCC enforcement was substantial. Then cheap radios came along, which GMRS already has. Too many reasons to list here but if it does go south, there is nothing you can do about it. At least if it was a digital radio service, maybe they could be programmed so the systems would block out unidentified or unlicensed. Digital radios too complicated for the goobers that want to play CB. The despised ham "gatekeepers" may be alot of the reason that sort of thing is usually kept suppressed to a large extent on the ham bands.
See the thing is that CB didn't "devolve". If you take a listen to channel 6 or any of the "skip" channels, the lingo or cadence used to "make a contact" is vastly different but it all boils down to the same exact theory of operation as the amateur or GMRS bands. Now ofc there are those on CB that do act in a way that's annoying but GMRS and Amateur both have those same issues already, you just have more "channels" to listen to so it's not as concentrated. I for one would actually enjoy seeing amateur radio or GMRS take a turn towards what CB is like, because against all odds, CB is still extremely active even today.
@@ScuffedRadio You take the good with the bad. I was raised by boomers (mine were great people). I do not disagree with your complaint. I had to deal with the post war generation….brutal. I think the bigger issue in radio is elitism. Like a bad caste system.
@TLH290 He's in California, the state where amateur radio repeaters first started being built and used. NOTHING can compare to the early 70's through till the early 2000's when it comes to radio activity in that area.
What you don't seem to understand is that the rules do say we're not allowed to use 4 letter words on air! Don't matter if everyone else is doing it. That's not appropriate on rge ham bands. And yes, they SHOULD lose their license for that! "Free speech radio"? Really? Get a CB then! The reason repeaters aren't used as much now is that technology has changed, so the8r not needed as much. That's most of it. There have always been different groups in the hobby/service (cw, hf, ssb, ect.) New digital modes haven't changed that. The FCC still does some enforcement of the ham bands. But we're supposed to be dealing with most problems ourselves. That's why we can do so many things amd have so much bandwidth! Most real hans don't like what happens on 80 or 7200! Those cloqns aren't as popular as you think! You may find then funny, but most hams don't! And no, "most" CB ops DON'T run power! ẞo stop trying to justify poor operation. Some ops are just "stuck" in the old days? Really? Nope! They just like gentalman operators, NOT the freaks amd clown show of today!
Go watch my latest video that definitely proves you completely incorrect using real legal case law from a past attempted FCC enforcement. The FCC lost and free speech won. That's all the proof we need. You're wrong. You are a textbook example of what is wrong with ham radio. You're delusional about everything you just said, because reality is the polar opposite of everything you said (minus the part about technology making repeaters obsolete). But it doesn't matter ultimately, since when the people like you go silent key, the rest of us will take over and not have to worry about the bootlicking hall monitors like yourself.
Na ham repeaters are dying because gmrs repeaters are definitely more chill , and I would bet that getting a 35$ family shareable license without having to take a test is an even bigger reason. Sad Hams are not welcome on our bands 😂 wecome to the dark side .
GMRS is a way to escape the Sad Hams, the Nazi Repeater operators, and the Local Corrupt Clubs. I got my GMRS License and I like it. Folks are much nicer on GMRS!
@@StarShipAdventures this is ABCD911 looking for a radio check, you got your ears on Pig Pen, c'mon c'mon? ten-four good buddy! In my locale, if it wasn't for kerchunks, radio checks, and the occasional "awwww shit" there would be nothing on the local GMRS repeaters. I will say this though, one GMRS club does have a kick-ass weather net when things get sporty out there. GMRS is nothing more than a modern FM version of 1970's and 1980's CB radio. ten-four!
@1912rider I heard it all when you said it all! GMRS IMO is not going to outpace ham, especially since a lot of the "sad hams" are also "sad GMRS operators". Couple that with repeater owners who claim their system is "private" and whatnot.
I have found that GMRS operators are not very friendly and the ones that will talk, think they know more than everybody else and I have taken the liberty of getting rid of all my GMRS radios (as in, gave them away).
Thank you for saying this. Im unlicensed and asked the three dudes on a repeater where their club met AFYER THEIR NET ENDED so I could ask them questions legally. "Thats a felony!" Wouldnt even tell me where. Edit: I work near Mar a lago, so I went on the marine channel 9 the bridge tenders use up and down the intracoastal waterway on my home saying Merry Christmas to each one. I met my local deputy buddy at our coffee spot and called the tender for our town's bridge. He, another deputy, and a random dude in his 20s straight up wanted a baofeng on the spot. This hobby is cool as fuck and I cant relate to hams. Theres all this overlap with firearms training and overland camping and disaster prep and stuff- we get hurricanes bad. This shit is not boring at all. Its a cryin-ass shame.
Technically it's not legal to make a transmission on the ham bands as an unlicensed user UNLESS you are under the supervision of a licensed user. HOWEVER- The rules aren't enforced like that. They should have answered you and given you whatever info you wanted. The buttheads that loooove telling you how long you'll be in jail or how big a fine you'll get are the morons that are killing ham radio.
@ScuffedRadio exactly. Not 10 hours later, young folks see the shit in practice and think its awesome. While I think the marine channel is OK, it was illegal for me to do that, but I was careful not to interupt at all, and after he was like goodnight all I was like "net control can you hear me?" " I said sorry, Ill be quick Im unlicensed but I wanna learn, where do you meet so I can ask legally?" He and some jackoff up in another county are literally yelling thats a felony and didn't answer the question. Looked up the repeater owners, wont answer an APOLOGETIC email. My point is it was not in any way 'malicious' Interference. I was honest and broke the rule in good faith to avoid doing just that. I swear to you I was polite, concise, and professional as I could be but they treated me like an asshole.
Thanks for replying. I watched all the way to the end and if I understand you correctly, you think the reason repeaters are dead is that the younger generation finds the topic of discussions boring? The generation that is the smallest statistical group? I believe you said they want to talk about politics and curse? It kinda sounds like you’re saying repeaters are dead because repeaters don’t cater to young edge lords?
There are about five repeaters here in SoCal that talk about “real things”, cars, guns, and day to day life, so I am not really sure your real reason has enough of a statistical impact here. *five repeaters in about a fifty miles radius I should add.
I am going off my experience and the experience of other people that are my age. It's not that we WANT to just be edgy on the air. It's that we want to be able to talk like you would IRL and not be chastised for it by the bootlicking hall monitor types. Sometimes that does mean using certain four letter words or discussing more "xxx" topics. But that's life. This "professional" watered down way of talking that is pushed on new, young hams from the start is a perfect way to make them lose interest. It certainly did me, and pretty much everyone I talked to. For example, at the 2020 Hamfest In Huntsville. We goofed off on 146.520. People hated it. BUT!! I had a large number of actual young hams tell me that they wouldn't have even been on the radio that day if it weren't for what my group did. That's proof right there, that the generation that's replacing the old one has a very different way of operating, and that's not a bad thing.
@@ScuffedRadiobtw, I don’t disagree that people should talk normally on the radio, have fun etc. but the claim you made is that is what is killing repeaters and I just don’t see the numbers behind that.
@HamRadioCrashCourse you don't see the numbers because most people like me just give up and don't talk on the radio, and thus can't be "counted". I'm one of the first who actually fought back. So yes it's a difficult thing to prove with analytics... so I can only use my experience and the experience of others my age to make the claim. Wether you believe it or not is up to personal opinion but this is what I know to be true.
I'm a new ham, and I don't have any interest in random conversations with strangers, over a repeater.
I'm interested in targeted comms, and the practices that come from that
Ok
Same here.
Just two of the repeater systems around me in western Colorado reach multiple states and into Canada and are quite active. One of the repeater systems has 66 interconnected repeaters (some near me are connected only by microwave) and there is always someone willing to answer 24 hours a day. The entire reason I got into ham radio was because of the amazing repeater system out here and my love of the outdoors and my willingness to go to remote places alone (SOTA/POTA, hike, fish, Jeep, dirt bike/ATV, camp, etc). I live in rugged mountains with 14ers practically out my back door and there are many places that do not have cell service but just about everywhere out here has access at least one of the three major repeater systems. Everybody here seems well behaved and I have not run across a single sad ham or anyone correcting anyone's language or conversation or topic ever. I monitor 2 of those systems 24 hours a day and have for the last 6 years. There are quite a few nets throughout the week and some are quite interesting. There's a brother and sister in different cities and they have an afternoon chat several times a week about many different things and even though they're reaching out to 65 other repeaters, nobody cares. The only time I notice dead repeaters is when I travel outside of Colorado; I RARELY get a response when I reach out. Anyway, there are at least 2 repeater systems covering much of Colorado that are not dead and have not restricted anyone in my 6 years of around-the-clock listening. I have noticed that calling "CQ" on any repeater system (unless that person is from Malta or Japan for example) will not yield as many responses as just asking for a radio check or quick chat. Thanks so much for the video. If you want a topic to evaluate, try hams' experiences with amateur radio clubs. 73
Over here in Nova Scotia Canada our repeaters are all linked except for the odd one or two. They are linkable across 3 provinces and they get linked up and used for a net every weekday morning and they get used for a couple nets per week. Those repeaters all work when cell phones don't. We don't have anyone being grumpy or controlling on them. The morning net is very popular and it always goes into overtime with tons of check-ins. I have two local repeaters in my little town that we are encouraged to use by the repeater operators so they will be there when needed for emergency operations. Something that The video doesn't talk about is that every region will have a different experience... We don't have any digital mode repeaters in Nova Scotia, there is one DMR repeater in New Brunswick I think. Some are IRLP and Echo link enabled, and we welcome operators to join nets from wherever they are in the world. I like the fact that our repeaters are all analog VHF and UHF so we don't have have very expensive HTs and simple mobiles work without issues
Here in Australia, I find repeaters almost non-existent of HAM users. Seems a waste really. EDITED BIT: Analogue and digital modes.
Ham radio is just like society. People are not nearly as welcoming as they used to be and they have become very tribal.
We are seeing what 75 meters has been like for ages, all over the bands now.
That's somewhat true, but its not everyone. There's a subset of hams that are very territorial especially when it comes to those nets on HF, but on the higher bands it's not so bad.
@ the other big issue that turns people off to new hams is you have a lot of the “ask google” type people who want the answers soon fed to them. Don’t get me wrong I have zero against teaching someone stuff being I was a high school science teacher. So teaching is in my very nature.
But when someone asks me something and I give them a quick answer followed with sending them a PD F file saying there is a ton of info on that topic on pages 42-45. And then they come back to me being nasty having expected me to hold their hand every second of the way.
The instant gratification types.
But another issue like with repeaters is I have a several large coverage repeaters and I don’t mind helping others build a repeater. But you have so many now who want to build a backyard repeater and then get all upset when I tell them I don’t want them to link it in because its nothing but an endless sea of them playing with their repeater and kerchuhking it and that drives away users from bigger systems.
But I do think we are seeing a lot more tribalism on VHF and UHF like we see on the 75 meters nets.
@@BVN-TEXAS I'm with you on the "instant gratification" types. Nothing gets me more excited then someone sending me a pdf with info for me to sift through. I learn a lot that way. Backyard repeaters are a growing trend, and I'm guilty of that too, but I at least use mine a lot and don't just kerchunk it all day. But you gotta just be careful who you let onto a network these days because as soon as someone's linked up they now always feel like they have part ownership of ALL the systems in question and start trying to police the whole thing. Hence why I never let people have permanent sites on my network unless they are very well vetted.
@ i don’t just send them a PDF file lol. I will take time to explain a concept but I will follow it up with links and a PDF from the ARRL handbook or antenna book which has photos and such.
But no I don’t just say here read this your answer is in these ten pages. That would piss me off too.
But half the way you learn is when you are looking for one answer and the things you come across along the way.
If they can’t even read a few pages after I’ve sat on the phone with them for 20 minutes, ham radio isn’t the hobby for you.
Part of the hobby is a lot of self teaching and research and learning.
Hell I wish I had the amount of resources hams today have on the internet back when I got in at the age of 13 in the late 80s.
And anyone with a major repeater on a comemericsl roof top started with a small backyard repeater to learn things. We all did.
I don’t fault them for that but like you said you let them connect and suddenly they think they are HNIC and start running people off.
@BVN-TEXAS you're doing the lords work haha... anyone would be lucky to get help from you. But yeah if you can't read a few pages of a pdf then you probably aren't ready to try anything advanced. I think that ham radio can be for anyone, even the least technologically inclined, they just gotta know their limits.
Tried talking with the "trustees" of the club repeater, showing massive interest and wanted to get more information regarding the software usage and requirements for programming the hardware, as well as tuning the transmitting and receiving circuitry for optimum RX/TX. Getting the cold shoulder treatment was putting it lightly, with a holier than thou attitude. I guess the extra class license means nothing to these old, grumpy gatekeepers, or having the knowledge of a graduated EE degree that did not just memorize to regurgitate test answers. Do they want to gatekeep their knowledge, thinking that it is not freely available to a discerning individual that can pick the grains of truth from the swaths of chaff that is freely available? I don't comprehend the attitude, nor have any inkling whatsoever to put a modicum of effort into trying to figure it out. I have better things to occupy my time with.
The repeater still sounds like feces, with massive amounts of static after 10 seconds of transmission, and sporadic interference at random intervals that I doubt will be fixed anytime soon. 🤦♂
Sounds pretty typical. You have to be an insider, part of their little gentleman's club, to be given the time of day.
The attitude and treating new Hams like shit is the root of the problem. Hell it is the root of all problems.
As someone who owns a few repeaters I run into two types of hams looking for info.
Some like you really want info and really want to learn and are very receptive. These types are very rare.
The majority are the ones who want you to spoon feed them every little bit of information and hold their hand. And when you send them some links of pages with tons of info for them to read they get furious because they have the instant gratification type.
I also run into a lot who want to build a desk top repeater which is cool but then they want to link into my system and when I politely tell them no they get all upset.
I love teaching and helping new hams get on the air. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve helped new hams install mobile radios and such.
But so many of the new and young hams don’t want to do any “leg work” or meet you in the middle. They want an Elmer to a be like “ask google” and a lot of us just burned out with it.
For good or ill, we allow Ecolink on our local repeater. The repeater became famous during Helene. We've had non-locals log in to that repeater and start correcting locals on how they should transmit or how they should set up Ecolink. Some folks listening in on Ecolink were targeted by these folks for correction - even though they were not transmitting. As long as a person gives a call sign and name when transmitting, no one really cares if they have their name in the right spot for Ecolink.
I agree with your assessment. Around here the 2m repeater and simplex is dead. I have heard one group have a meeting and heard one other time where there were a total of 3 guys talking. and I have been listening for about 3 months now every day and night. The 1.25m is a little more active. I hear a couple of guys about once a week.
Hams spend a lot of time and money on digital garbage trying to make radio more appealing. Meanwhile, they completely ignore or haze anybody who is just generally interested in the hobby.
Well said.
Digital garbage is right.
Truth up on a sick one, palabra...
I completely Agree!
Your just afraid of change! We hans are supposed to adopt new technology! Analog has its place, but so does digital now. Try to keep up folks!
I don’t have a opinion on your views pro or con , I do see your point about people taking a lot of the enjoyment out of radio but mainly I want to comment on the old school microwave tower that you’re showing…those are awesome … I never get tired of checking them out . Really cool 🇺🇸👍🏻
That's an old microwave tower that was very close to my old repeater site. Off of Telephone Tower Road in northern Alabama. It is THE Telephone Tower. Now it's used mainly for VHF/UHF analog repeaters for the various utility companies and businesses. It has one or two amateur repeaters on it as well. The location is fantastic, up on the northern end of a great mountain in the Huntsville area. Coverage is really good. My system was about a mile down the road and slightly higher and the range on VHF was fantastic.
@ I work for AT&T started with Bellsouth, my Dad retired from the phone company also. He worked on those towers back in the day … old Cold War era technology. Sounds like you have an awesome setup and location to operate. I live in Talladega and we have some of those in the nearby area but they are generally going to waste. I’d love to have the ability to utilize them, great channel and I also subscribed 👍🏻
@appalachianunderground8474 yeah they're pretty awesome. Always wanted to climb one. One day I'll get the chance. I think I met you and Trent at the Huntsville Hamfest, and we did the shootout in Gadsden.
@ Yep we did meet, good to talk to you again
Trent is a mess lol 😆
Digital versus analog: it's a trade-off between digital pushing a few decibels deeper into the noise with forward error correction and never hearing scratchy faint audio versus analog sounding better when it is strong enough to be out of the noise. An old fashioned cliche my father used to say "one man's meat is another man's poison."
From the lab testing I've seen, (at least with D-Star) the digital mode underperformed vs. the analog FM mode. I've heard conflicting reports about that.
When i moved out from comiefornia to Alabama i got tired of people complaining and turning themselves into a victim after they caused a issue. This sounds like that with hams they cause a problem and now thier crying about it with digital stuff.
exactly
I agree with what you are saying at the end of the video...it's a HUGE problem and has been for a long time. However, I also agree with most, but not all, of what Josh and George are saying. I also agree that repeater activity and culture varies greatly around the country. Multiple things can be true at the same time.....
Some of their points are accurate... but I take a bigger issue with the way they present it. In reality, what they said is only 10% of the real problem. They won't address the bigger issue because it's too polarizing or too controversial and they don't want to be seen that way in the Amateur radio community.
@ScuffedRadio I could be wrong but I really don't think that's the case. But even if it is, I personally don't care what they chose to cover or not cover in their content. I've thought about covering this topic on my channel but struggle to see the value in doing so. The gatekeepers aren't going to change just because I'm calling them out. My video would serve to only reinforce the stance people have and make the divide deeper. Unlicenced people watching from the sidelines will see the arguments in the comments and get turned off. I may be wrong but I think that's why Josh tends to focus more on the positive most of the time.
@SevenFortyOne The community has to acknowledge the real problem before they can ever hope to fix it.
@@ScuffedRadio perhaps, but it's been a problem since before I got my license in the early 90s and I don't think it's going to change until the gatekeepers are gone unfortunately. I feel it has gotten better over the years and slowly gets better over time as Josh and others normalize what you and I would consider "good" behavior. In other words, Josh is on our side. He's not the problem, he's part of the solution and choosing to address the issue in his own way.
@@SevenFortyOne I think even you and I disagree on what's "good behavior" I've seen your video on the KA1SHU (a friend of mine's repeater system) where you criticize the operators in the recording before the video even starts. That's what I mean when I say they won't address the real issue... they still either don't see the issue or are too afraid of the backlash if they do.
My thing is, i got late unto this ham game, last time i used a repeater when i visited family by vero florida with my handy talkie and normally in my area im to far away from a repeater im either 28 miles away from a repeater in one direction and 38 miles in a different direction. My main goal is to just rag chew when traveling in my troka and get up on a sick one with cw on qrp with hf playing with sota and pota.
When 10 M amateur band
sounds quiet, on CB super
channels, they are booming
in like how many KW's are
they running on there.
I see 200 Amp power supplies
listed by CB dealers. 😊
100% agree. Very well said! Repeater groups are so boring; all they ever talk about is radio hardware. The most interesting thing we discussed in my area lately was the Hurricane Helen relief effort because it was actually something that wasn’t as safe and predictable. People were complaining about FEMA, worried for loved ones, and sharing real concerns-finally, a real conversation! HF simplex is great because you can actually talk about whatever you want without some fudd repeater owner flipping out because you aren’t discussing a Bible verse or radio equipment. So much more freedom and way less dull!
At least you don't have to use a repeater on ham to talk around the world.......oh, I forgot, you can't talk around the world with a GMRS radio even with repeaters.
Barf. We use the ones around here, analog. SE Louisiana. I think it kind of depends on where you live. I am an IT person, I discourage linking over the Internet. I liked your opinion on this topic.
Free speech is scary, how would big brother feel
Exactly why they put those entries in part 97, no politics or religion. Don't want the people having free thought if it could possibly impact the government's grip on the people.
East of Tampa, FL our 440 MHz repeater is a dual mode FM+digital (switching between) that has a digital net two nights every week. That is all that I have heard about hereabouts.
I think most new HAMS with technician licenses use VHF+UHF until they upgrade and discover the great fun of HF, ending their FM+digital interest. I think it takes a HAM club to keep a VHF and/or UHF repeater used and constantly monitored. Ron W4BIN
A single repeater can function successfully independent of a club, but you better put the time and effort in to make the machine sound really good and have great coverage while still being free speech orientated.
actually repeat it or not dead a lot of them are used on the net when they do their nets, also many people use them when they are commuting for safety here in New York City we got quite a few repeaters that I use, a lot on the 2 meter band,
A lot of repeaters today are not all in one. Most repeaters are two radios with a controller of some sort.
Look at the massive market for Motorola CDM.
The poor man's repeater 😂
@ you laugh, there is tons on the air that way. As long as you follow it with a circulator and proper filtering.
Hell pop the top on a XPR-8400 Motorola DMR repeater. It’s just two mobile radios with an interconnect board.
What matters is when you have a circulator and filtering after it.
Now don’t get me started on Bridgecom repeaters. Those are some baofemg of the repeaters
It's dead cause it's boring as fuck. Check ins etc. People obsessed with Rules, proper etiquette. Makes HAM radio dry.
Accurate af
These point to point radios,
is that the ones I see as In
Touch Radios? 😊
Could be. There's many brands and types.
Hasn't the number of us amateurs stayed around
750,000 for quite a while,.
not really increasing nor
decreasing in recent years.?😊
We are about to see a massive wave of declining numbers as the boomer generation dies out, plus there's a big difference between the number of licensed users on paper and the number of active users.
Digital, trunking etc. are measures taken by commercial operators due to a high volume of radio traffic and just a few channels available. Plus taxpayer money. Nowadays FM repeaters are pretty dead too, many lucky to have one use a day. Occasionally there is a local that gets a fairly large amount of use because everyone hears activity there and joins in. All the others around remain quiet. Traditional FM repeaters are sufficient for almost all ham radio uses IMO. You don't have to buy new gear, program it, bust your brains trying to figure it out etc. Even for emergency comms or public service we got more repeaters around here than demand requires. So why spend big bucks on a new super digital radio? I guess the digital wave is trying to keep up with the state of the art and make ham radio smarter or something but as long as activity is scarce, it is not being utilized to it's potential anyway.
Digital radio does reduce bandwidth usage, that's true, but as amateurs we simply DONT NEED that capability. I'd rather have a 12.5KHz wide digital signal that sounds really good then have a 4KHz wide digital signal that sounds like crap. Even the big Amateur names like Yaesu and iCom still act like we hams care about bandwidth. That's why I like analog. Sure, it's more simple and easier to use. But it just sounds far better and is more enjoyable to listen to.
OH and the highly touted GMRS has the potential to devolve just like AM CB did. AM CB started out same concept as GMRS. But radios were expensive and FCC enforcement was substantial. Then cheap radios came along, which GMRS already has. Too many reasons to list here but if it does go south, there is nothing you can do about it. At least if it was a digital radio service, maybe they could be programmed so the systems would block out unidentified or unlicensed. Digital radios too complicated for the goobers that want to play CB. The despised ham "gatekeepers" may be alot of the reason that sort of thing is usually kept suppressed to a large extent on the ham bands.
See the thing is that CB didn't "devolve". If you take a listen to channel 6 or any of the "skip" channels, the lingo or cadence used to "make a contact" is vastly different but it all boils down to the same exact theory of operation as the amateur or GMRS bands. Now ofc there are those on CB that do act in a way that's annoying but GMRS and Amateur both have those same issues already, you just have more "channels" to listen to so it's not as concentrated. I for one would actually enjoy seeing amateur radio or GMRS take a turn towards what CB is like, because against all odds, CB is still extremely active even today.
I'm glad I found you, and I hope you make a ton more videos. Subscribed!
Welcome to the channel and thanks for subscribing!!
You’re going to miss the boomers.
Maybe if the boomers weren't so eager to be assholes to other younger people then maybe you'd be right.
@@ScuffedRadio You take the good with the bad. I was raised by boomers (mine were great people). I do not disagree with your complaint. I had to deal with the post war generation….brutal. I think the bigger issue in radio is elitism. Like a bad caste system.
@seller559 100% agree
love it dude!!!
That bearded dude actually said there is more repeater activity now than in the past! What is he smoken? Geesh! He is delusional!
I think it depends on where you are
He is big time smoking some magic smoke probably because no matter where you live, that is simply impossible.
@TLH290 He's in California, the state where amateur radio repeaters first started being built and used. NOTHING can compare to the early 70's through till the early 2000's when it comes to radio activity in that area.
What you don't seem to understand is that the rules do say we're not allowed to use 4 letter words on air! Don't matter if everyone else is doing it. That's not appropriate on rge ham bands. And yes, they SHOULD lose their license for that! "Free speech radio"? Really? Get a CB then!
The reason repeaters aren't used as much now is that technology has changed, so the8r not needed as much. That's most of it. There have always been different groups in the hobby/service (cw, hf, ssb, ect.) New digital modes haven't changed that.
The FCC still does some enforcement of the ham bands. But we're supposed to be dealing with most problems ourselves. That's why we can do so many things amd have so much bandwidth!
Most real hans don't like what happens on 80 or 7200! Those cloqns aren't as popular as you think! You may find then funny, but most hams don't! And no, "most" CB ops DON'T run power! ẞo stop trying to justify poor operation. Some ops are just "stuck" in the old days? Really? Nope! They just like gentalman operators, NOT the freaks amd clown show of today!
Go watch my latest video that definitely proves you completely incorrect using real legal case law from a past attempted FCC enforcement. The FCC lost and free speech won. That's all the proof we need. You're wrong. You are a textbook example of what is wrong with ham radio. You're delusional about everything you just said, because reality is the polar opposite of everything you said (minus the part about technology making repeaters obsolete). But it doesn't matter ultimately, since when the people like you go silent key, the rest of us will take over and not have to worry about the bootlicking hall monitors like yourself.
Na ham repeaters are dying because gmrs repeaters are definitely more chill , and I would bet that getting a 35$ family shareable license without having to take a test is an even bigger reason. Sad Hams are not welcome on our bands 😂 wecome to the dark side .
IS GMRS the new CB? WIthout skip, it might last longer till people discover they can mess around with no license same as.
GMRS is a way to escape the Sad Hams, the Nazi Repeater operators, and the Local Corrupt Clubs. I got my GMRS License and I like it. Folks are much nicer on GMRS!
@@StarShipAdventures this is ABCD911 looking for a radio check, you got your ears on Pig Pen, c'mon c'mon? ten-four good buddy! In my locale, if it wasn't for kerchunks, radio checks, and the occasional "awwww shit" there would be nothing on the local GMRS repeaters. I will say this though, one GMRS club does have a kick-ass weather net when things get sporty out there. GMRS is nothing more than a modern FM version of 1970's and 1980's CB radio. ten-four!
@1912rider I heard it all when you said it all! GMRS IMO is not going to outpace ham, especially since a lot of the "sad hams" are also "sad GMRS operators". Couple that with repeater owners who claim their system is "private" and whatnot.
I have found that GMRS operators are not very friendly and the ones that will talk, think they know more than everybody else and I have taken the liberty of getting rid of all my GMRS radios (as in, gave them away).
Thank you for saying this. Im unlicensed and asked the three dudes on a repeater where their club met AFYER THEIR NET ENDED so I could ask them questions legally. "Thats a felony!" Wouldnt even tell me where. Edit: I work near Mar a lago, so I went on the marine channel 9 the bridge tenders use up and down the intracoastal waterway on my home saying Merry Christmas to each one. I met my local deputy buddy at our coffee spot and called the tender for our town's bridge. He, another deputy, and a random dude in his 20s straight up wanted a baofeng on the spot. This hobby is cool as fuck and I cant relate to hams. Theres all this overlap with firearms training and overland camping and disaster prep and stuff- we get hurricanes bad. This shit is not boring at all. Its a cryin-ass shame.
Technically it's not legal to make a transmission on the ham bands as an unlicensed user UNLESS you are under the supervision of a licensed user. HOWEVER- The rules aren't enforced like that. They should have answered you and given you whatever info you wanted. The buttheads that loooove telling you how long you'll be in jail or how big a fine you'll get are the morons that are killing ham radio.
@ScuffedRadio exactly. Not 10 hours later, young folks see the shit in practice and think its awesome. While I think the marine channel is OK, it was illegal for me to do that, but I was careful not to interupt at all, and after he was like goodnight all I was like "net control can you hear me?" " I said sorry, Ill be quick Im unlicensed but I wanna learn, where do you meet so I can ask legally?" He and some jackoff up in another county are literally yelling thats a felony and didn't answer the question. Looked up the repeater owners, wont answer an APOLOGETIC email. My point is it was not in any way 'malicious' Interference. I was honest and broke the rule in good faith to avoid doing just that. I swear to you I was polite, concise, and professional as I could be but they treated me like an asshole.