Honda is working on it too. In the US, it has 3 Honda Clarity's. One PHEV, EV, and Fuel Cell. The PHEV is for sale while the other two are only for lease. I believe the Fuel Cell can only be leased in California since it has some Hydrogen infrastructure.
hydrogen ist no next gen. its oldschool and has been abandoned because it is difficult to implement charging stations, the fuel is horrendously expensive ,range not much more than witha battery powered car. It's only advantage is that it can refuel about 6-8x as fast as a battery car on long range trips - provided you can find a hydrogen station
hydrogen has only recently (last decade) been commercialized, it's still in its infancy. i wouldn't count it out. it still has a lot of room for growth. fossil fuel is the real dead end.
Absolutely awesome development. I can't wait to drive a hydrogen car in the future! In Switzerland some big players in logistics and food industry (whick own fillings stations) build a pact to get 1000 Hyundai heavy duty hydrogen trucks until 2023 and build filling stations nation wide. First of those 1000s will rolle on swiss roads end of 2019. I look forward to see the momentum!
I think Hydrogen Fuel Cells for Electricity Generating Stations sounds like a great way to store excess Electrical Power for when it's needed. However, I'm not convinced for private vehicles as it smacks of a way to ensure we all keep paying for annual services and hugely expensive parts like Air Filters. The advantage of battery is that the amount of spares regularly needed is significantly reduced and it can be 'refuelled' at home.
Yeah, I must concur. I think I will switch from BEV to HEV when domestic electrolizers become available and in my price bracket. So instead of a powerwall have an electrolyzer to store domestic PV and wind. The one thing that freaks me out about hydrogen though is how dangerous it could be. I mean, I have had this vision of a hydrogen lorry smashing into a bridge and the explosion taking the whole bridge out. I'm not convinced that a head on head in a hydrogen car would not result in a massive fireball.
You can pump hydro on high altitude from solar during day and at night that water on the hill will produce electricity during night. Pumped hydro is 85% efficient. Search pumped hydro storage. We can send electricity trough high voltage DC (milions of volts) ocean cables from continent to continent. When they have night we send them electricity when is dark we get electricity from them. Global electrical network, just like Internet's Undersea Cables. That way we can produce 100% electricity from Sun.
The advantage is that the energy density of stored hydrogen is enormous compared to that of lithium batteries, useful for transport and at home (one day solar panels/small turbines will likely go into h2 storage rather than bigger and bigger batteries). And also far fewer materials going in to build the motor/fuel cell compared to batteries. If the filter is the main serviceable component - then that's a good target for tech dev to produce reusable/cleanable filters.
My problem with hydrogen is it puts a corporation back in charge of my fuel. I see it as a substitute for petroleum. I prefer using solar at my house to charge my car, eliminating my dependence on large corporations.
Chris Cross nothing wrong with eliminating the fuel suppliers.....your point was exactly? We are currently going through a major energy disruption and many companies will have to refocus in order to survive - great stuff and it empowers consumers like John and that is a great thing....
badchefi My point "exactly" is there are lashings of smug hypocrisy dollopped into some of these comments here. I just picked one of them to poke at. Nothing wrong with EV's . . bring 'em on I say. But when someone types "eliminating my dependence on large corporations" when in fact that person is now dependent on corporations many times larger than the ones he's forgone (huge users of fossil fuels also, never mind spurious overseas labor crimes) I felt obliged to respond. If you want to plant your flag in this topic let's hash this out here but I've a feeling on reflection you may see some merit in my argument.
Chris Cross you are right about the hypocrisy - I drive an electric car myself (love the technology and its efficiency) and end up talking to so many other EV drivers that are completely deluded.
Space travel would eliminate atmosphere hindrance of solar output and all ready produce oxygen for human and livestock use enabling the use in rockets.
@@speedgraphic It's a physical substance high in energy (higher if you don't combine it with oxygen possibly useful for rockets over other transport, as we have less use of electron drives).
hydrogen isn't clean! around 90% of worlds production is made from natural gas steam. Not clean. only a viable option IF its made on site and from renewable energy.
And it needs to stop polluting ASAP. And they also certainly make far more sense on aircraft & long haul trucks than battery electric. I'm surprised Hyundai don't seem to be concentrating on that side of the tech
@@YAUUN Hyundai has jointed with France MOU to export 2,000 hydrogen fuel trucks, which clearly shows Hyundai is also considering the large transportation fields such as trucks, subway, and hopefully aircrafts.
It has been over a year, closer to two, that I have not watched a fully charged episode.. I missed it so much that I decided I should give you a visit tonight. Thank You for being relaxing and beautiful, and informative :)
What an AMAZING video! Could watch this all day. I would love it to be at such an Hyundai event. Lovely to see the Hydrogen powered bus as well, the future is here already!
Great to watch - and listen that Robert is not biased for any new technology but promotes equally BEV, PHEV and Fuel-Cell..I think as always that there is no one-fit-for-all technology it is great that there are alternative paths.
Cost to refill. Long Answer: Hydrogen fuel prices range from $12.85 to more than $16 per kilogram (kg), but the most common price is $13.99 per kg (equivalent on a price per energy basis to $5.60 per gallon of gasoline), which translates to an operating cost of $0.21 per mile. More expensive than petrol he didn't mention that!
Yes but indeed there will be an advance technology to reduce the cost of hydrogen and South Korea recently invented new technology to produce hydrogen cheaper
Trains, buses, trucks, ships and perhaps even airplanes. Hydrogen is a viable solution for all of them simply because you can have a lot of power filled in a relatively short time period. As far as I know, fuel cells don't degrade as much as batteries do over time and are cleaner to make. YES, the fuel production process is less efficient, but once we have nearly every house producing solar of their own and wind, what the heck are we going to do with the excess power? Batteries everywhere is an option, but think about that the next time a 4,000 kilowatt diesel locomotive pulls some freight past your house. The future is a hybrid between Hydrogen and battery, powered by solar, wind and, perhaps, tidal. Hyundai is not stupid to invest in both technologies.
Oh the number of things we could do with *excess* power... Extract CO2 from the atmosphere would be the first recommendation. Locomotives should, of course, just be pure electric, as they already are in sensible countries.
@@CorwynGC agree there's a number of things that can be done. However, not all train lines are electrified and H2 is an economical way to move away from diesel. Same goes for large scale shipping which is grossly polluting. All I'm saying is, there is a space for this tech as well.
Buses and trucks are practical with just batteries. The Tesla semi prototype is already hauling cargo all over the place, and batteries are only going to get better. Buses in particular, since EVs are great at low speed stop-and-start traffic. Trains should use electric rails where possible, but I can see hydrogen being a more cost effective solution in a lot of cases. Hydrogen also makes more sense for ships. Though I wouldn't rule out batteries completely. With sufficient advancements and mass production, both ships and trains could conceivably be battery powered. I don't think it's likely, but it's not impossible. Airplanes definitely won't be battery powered though. More than any other common form of transport, they need high specific energy fuels. Batteries probably won't ever allow for an aircraft on par with a modern jet airliner, though smaller craft for short regional flights might be possible. Though I have to say, looking at it from an engineering standpoint, I don't quite understand why hydrogen is being promoted over methane. Most hydrogen comes from methane reformation anyway, so there's no extra pollution there. Methane can also be produced renewably with comparable efficiency to hydrogen electrolysis by sucking CO2 out of the air and combining it with water via the sabatier reaction. It can also be used in fuel cells, again with comparable efficiency to hydrogen. But it has one key advantage: Storability. It's much denser than hydrogen, which means you can store it at much lower pressure for the same volume, or a much smaller volume at the same pressure. It also doesn't cause hydrogen embrittlement. My guess for why it isn't popular is because it would emit CO2 directly from the car, so it doesn't have the appearance of being green, even though it's actually about the same as hydrogen overall in practice.
Any trains not electrified can be, for far less than converting the whole thing over to Hydrogen. Electricity is already everywhere. Planes may well be a place for this tech, I am not knowledgeable on the particulars there.
CorwynGC I can't see it being cost effective to electrify rails hundreds of km away from the nearest power station in places like Siberia. Electricity isn't 'everywhere', it's just 'most places where civilization is'. Many train routes go quite a long way from civilization, and electricity doesn't transmit along tracks very far. You have to run an overhead line that whole distance, or run power to the tracks at regular intervals. The UK estimates that it would cost ~$1.5 million per km of track to electricity any given rail in the UK, which has significantly more available electricity and infrastructure than many places around the world. In my country a good few years back we electrified 400km of rail in a remote mountainous area, it cost about $250 million. It also cost a lot more to maintain, being so remote. Another very important thing that has to be considered is traffic. A line that only runs a single train a few times per year would benefit from electrification much less than a line that runs dozens of trains every day. The thing is that that overhead line costs about the same to maintain regardless of how much it's used. Say a hydrogen train costs 15 million to fuel per 1 million km traveled, versus only 5 million for an electric train. Say that 100km of overhead line costs 0.5 million to maintain per year. So a single hydrogen train that travels on a 500km track twice a week will travel only 50,000km per year, costing $750,000. If that train were electric it would cost 250,000 to run, plus 2.5 million for maintaining the overhead line, or 2.75 million total. But a dozen hydrogen trains running that same track every day would travel 2.1 million km per year, costing 31.5 million. If those trains were electric it would cost 10.5 million to run them, plus 2.5 million for maintaining the overhead line, or 13 million total. In the first situation hydrogen is three and a half times cheaper. In the second situation it costs nearly three times as much. Obviously those numbers would vary with different cost assumptions, but the point is that for high traffic, the cheaper cost of electricity wins, but for low traffic, maintenance can outweigh fuel costs. TLDR; short, local, high traffic routes favor electrification. Long, remote, low traffic routes favor hydrogen. That's why I said 'I can see hydrogen being a more cost effective solution in a lot of cases'.
In the Netherlands we are currently testing if we can replace gass with hydrogen to warm our houses and water using the original gaslines. If this is possible it will make charging your hydrogyn car at home possible as well.
Yrs ago I thought hydrogen was going to be the cats ass. Now I dont care for it in light of EV's as I am trying to get away from having to go to the gas station for the majority! Why the heck would I want to start going to have to go to another station to refill when I can charge over night at home - I am loving EV all the way but I am sure there will be a market for Hydrogen. Cheers, Patrick
I totally agree, although some say it may eventually be possible to purchase a small, affordable, and safe device that uses solar energy to generate and compress hydrogen at home. Of course, such a thing does not exist, and may never, but kudos to anyone who figures out how to make one.
Lovely video, as always Robert you are a pleasure to listen to and the gorgeous filming and production a joy to watch. But there’s a strong sense that you are giving Hyundai and Hydrogen a polite benefit of the doubt here. I think like many of your viewers this tech seems like a real long shot - Hyundai hedging their bets basically. While pure electric really feels like it’s arrived, hydrogen is still a bit of a head scratcher.
About 15-20 years ago I was very enthusiastic about the possibilities of the hydrogen vehicle. But then batteries started to get better and better to the point where they started to become a realistic option. And nowadays the idea of a hydrogen electric car is great, but it has been somewhat overtaken by the battery electric variety. BEVs can exist with almost no extra charging infrastructure (though it's much nicer to have it), whereas HEVs have to have it, and it is just as complicated and involved as the FF infrastructure. All so that we can put some decent miles in the tank in a couple of minutes rather than 30. I still think hydrogen has a place and might even find a large market future in some field. But not in personal vehicles, and impressive that the Hyundai undoubtedly is, it is an expensive and complicated way of being a battery electric car. Nice of it to clean the air though.
Was great to see the countryside of S. Korea although brief bits,...Brings back fond memories of my time there as a US Army soldier in the mid to late 80's! I think Hyundai is showing the world that there a force to be reckoned with when it comes to technology and great features in their vehicles. But unfortunately in my country there are still those who think of Hyundai as the company that produces cheap cars lol!!!!!...Nothing could be further from the truth!!!!!
I absolutely love this youtube channel. The reviews are really good and completely un-biased. Since subscribing I am more excited about future transportation technologies. Thanks for the awesome channel guys! 🤓
Hydrogen EV: Produce power from renewables --> Send power to hydrogen plant --> Split water into hydrogen & oxygen --> Compress hydrogen to 700 bar --> Transport hydrogen to fuel station --> Fill car up with hydrogen --> Produce electricity from hydrogen --> Turn motor Battery EV: Produce power from renewables --> Send power to car battery --> Produce electricity from battery --> Turn motor I think Occam's Razor wins out once again. Each one of those steps is a point where energy is lost, and there are far more steps when it comes to hydrogen.
Drunken Hobo, and hydrogen, being a very small molecule, leaks out of containment quickly. So transportation losses are much higher than electrical transmission losses. And storage losses are much higher than battery self-discharge or gas/diesel evaporation.
That's why you can't pipe hydrogen in the same way you can pipe natural gas, so you have to transport it in gas cylinders. But 5 kg of hydrogen needs roughly 95 kg of cylinder and that scales linearly with size. So for enough gas to fill the same as a petrol tanker (750 cars) you'll need to haul a load of at least 75 tonnes.
After watching ITV Tonight on buying a new car (read EV ish). I wish they'd let Robert Llywellyn run a 6 episode special with peeps being taught how to use pure EVs ... Give them home chargers, different brands and if they're in a flat, help them get started. Put them in different parts of the country. Allow them to blog every pump and journey. Make sure they're going to do a long trip. Put a single Nordic couple on with a different EV every week. Demonstrate how good the cars are and infrastructure. Make people ask why we're behind. Why we're aiming for 2040 rather than 2025 to switch from fossil to electric!
Tops on Hyundai for not taking sides and just simply taking in any/every alternative solution. Vehicle looks fantastic, interior superb, packaging of fuel cell and batteries without compromising space is praiseworthy and clever. Being able to power a household is another plus, especially in certain countries that experience blackouts.
Hydrogen is a horrible solution foisted on the world by the oil companies. They are selling you natural gas that has be processed into Hydrogen by releasing the CO2 into the atmosphere. That is not progress. Even generating Hydrogen from electric power is only 30% efficient. Battery powered electric cars are twice as efficient as Hydrogen cars. Toyota and other companies promoting Hydrogen are trying to fool the public. Very sad.
Thunder Shadow I’ve been doing this for ten years as I knew someone who was able to lend me some filters and production systems, it’s clean, it’s wonderful and it’s currently paying for half of my gas bills because it’s something I’m selling to British Gas for a small profit. I recommend it.
You seem so relaxed giving the commentary it must be one of the best hyundai car ever pity it wasn't electric only one Hydrogen station in the hole of New Zealand I have an Hyundai Ioniq Electric Elite have had it now for 17 months LOVE THE VIDIO
i guess you have to do something with the solar and wind poweroverflow, might as well store it as hydrogen and power some cars with it. i doubt they will ever overthrow BEVs as primary cars, but thats no reason to not develop them. there are niche cases where range and refuel time are important enough to warant tripple running costs.
You mean refuel time. Range for HFC is behind BEVs already. But we really don't know what refuel time will be, because there is a wait time between each fueling of about 15 minutes. So the first guy get 5 minute refuel, the next one gets 20 minutes refuel, the third, who knows. I can't imagine anyone who would be willing to pay three times the cost when they are driving enough to need mid-trip refueling in the first place (i.e. more than 300 miles on *most* trips) And not even comparing to a Tesla with unlimited *free* supercharging that can still be acquired.
If hydrogen is proposed as a way to store excess energy, it has dozens of other promising technologies to compete with. The crazy thing is that Li-ion is in practice one of the cheapest ways to store energy that you can deploy anywhere (pumped hydro is so much better, but limited to specific locations). Economies of scale is a hell of a thing. Sure, let’s develop the technology and see where it goes. But we shouldn’t bet all our money on it.
Better than a hybrid gas car. Not as good as pure electric. I love the simplicity of filling up a mechanically simple, basically hermeticly sealed car at home. I'd stick with EV. Although putting the hydrogen fuel cells in my home charging my EV would be cool if there was money savings.
You are absolutely correct. I was making the emphasis about GASOLINE hybrids. :-) A major difference, however, is that this car has no ICE while almost all hybrids do. It's essentally an electric car with a fuel cell system as a "battery". Again, since I don't do a lot of long trips, I prefer the blissfull simplicity of a pure EV and all the complexity of hybrids does not appeal especiallys since I tend to keep cars for longer than most dogs live. :-) (Driving the 2015 LEAF I bought off of lease for $9600)
Why is it not as good as full BEV? If it purifies the air it drives through? Both technically reply on coal to power them. There is no mention of this car being able to be charged at home.. But if it was a PHFCEV that would be awesome. Get a range of around 100km on just batteries alone, and then fire up the stack to get you further down the road. 5 min refill to go 600km vs 2hrs wait on the charger? Yes 2 hours is very realistic time especially in the winter when batteries are cold, and you don't get the same range as you would in the summer. 400km rated BEVs tend to get about 60-70% range in the winter which sort of sucks.
When it comes to technology, good or bad are very contextual. When you need a wrench, a screwdriver is "bad" and a wrench is "good". I personally have a need for a super-simple device that I can expect to last a long time with minimal maintenance. Hybrids, although they have a pretty good track record, seem likely to become problematic once they become geriatric because of all thier parts and lots of material flowing through them. I need something simple that can present only simple problems down the road and that's why I love basic EVs. (not so much fancy ones) I would expect your needs to be different with some other kind of model being "good" for you. (hope you find just the right tool) :-)
@@foxpup I agree, the more tech you stuff into the car the more wrong can happen. This is why people always say : oh my 80s (insert Japanese car here) car ran forever and never broke down. That is because it was a simple design that worked and was engineered to work for many years to come. Today's cars are viewed as dispensable junk by many.
I think a lot of people here are bashing hydrogen unnecessarily. I don't think it's the best solution for the average consumer (cars, taxis, etc.), but I can see it being a great fuel source in its niche: coaches, lorries, construction vehicles, rubbish trucks, yachts/other private boats, ferries, maybe even aeroplanes? (yes, I've heard of Hindenburg).
Robert You said that the hydrogen used via the fuel cell gives 50% efficiency. It seems they worded the statement in such a way as to eliminate the first step, making the hydrogen(?) If they compared 1) CNG > ICE engine > wheels (=25%) To 2) CNG *(+electricity "A")* > hydrogen > fuel cell > electricity "B" > wheels (= 50%?) I assume they accounted for the power used (A) to create the Hydrogen in the total efficiency? How about fuel / infrastructure to transport the hydrogen to the point of use? (Tankers / drivers, etc). Even if they did (?) It still means a 50% loss of the "original" electricity (A) to the "vehicle" electricity (B). *Plus* both systems use power (electricity?) to produce the CNG! So a BEV is still at least 50% more efficient! It just doesn't make sense!! (Sorry, still "fool cells")
Like the Mercedes GLC fuel cell: 49 km with battery, 437 km (NEDC) with hydrogen. Not available yet. But might be an option for big and expensive cars in the future.
Anuar Abdul Samad That’s a great idea. But the ones making hydrogen cars probably don’t want to. If you can charge your car at home, you’re not going to fill hydrogen very often. That means hydrogen stations won’t have a lot of customers. That means there will be fewer of them. That will make it so people don’t want to buy hydrogen cars. These days, when the charging infrastructure is so good in many places, it would be much easier to sell a plug-in hydrogen car, since you wouldn’t be completely dependent of fuel stations. So it says a lot that they’re not doing it. It’s the existential crisis of hydrogen cars.. so much of what they’re doing feeds into improvements and cost reductions of pure BEVs. They use the same motors, electronic and batteries after all. It cheaper/better BEVs implies a smaller niche for HFCs..
Simple answer for why it’s currently not happening would probably be weight for the other battery. Plugin hybrids require two battery packs to be reliably designed to be able to use the engine (or in this case the fuel cell) as little as possible. The reason for that is so that you still have another reserve battery for propulsion and accessories for when the other dies, with the second one being a lot smaller. Take for example the Prius plugin has two, which are both positioned in the mid rear section of the vehicle. The pluggable battery is in the boot floor where the conventional space saver wheel would normally go and the other is under the rear seats in a ventilated cover.
For larger energy usages, like cars, hydrogen does not make sense. First, they are promoting hydrogen as alternative to fossil fuels, and 95% of hydrogen coming from FOSSIL fuels (natural gas, huge amounts of CO2 are released in this process). Natural gas comes mostly from fracking. So hydrogen does not solve environment issues, and nobody will produce hydrogen on large scale with electrolysis while cheaper alternative is available. As for getting hydrogen from water, for hydrogen you have to put in 100kWh of energy to get 30kWh to move the car. In EV, for 100kWh, you get 85kWh to move the car. So hydrogen station creating hydrogen on site will use so much electricity that it could charge 3 times more electric vehicles. For example, electricity used to fill up 1000 fuel cell vehicles for 300 miles, could fill up 3000 electric vehicles for the same mileage. Price of hydrogen? Price will be around 15 US$ per kilogram, so you need 75$ to fill it up for 300 miles. Battery EV will cost you around 10$ for 300 miles. Who loves hydrogen? Big oil companies, because they produce it from fossil fuels, and fuel cell cars would let them keep their monopoly. You can say, we will put solar panels, wind turbine or any other renewable and make hydrogen that way for 'free', but that also does not make sense, because with the same solar panels or wind turbines you can support 3-4 times more electric than hydrogen vehicles.
Derrick Monet The most common hydrogen production process is natural gas reforming - sometimes called steam methane reforming because it uses high-temperature steam. When exposed to steam and heat, the carbon (C) atoms of methane (CH4) separate. After two successive reactions, they reform separately to produce hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (co₂).
Then the trend should be, producing electricity from renewable sources, and using it directly for transportation, finally ditching every other contaminating form of electricity production (no good for oil or mining companies), am I right? Is there any practical application of fuel cell technology you can see in the near o mid term future? Thank you.
Airplanes can use hydrogen but they would burn it via combustion in regular turbine engines because the fuel cell would be way too bulky for the amount of power needed so fuel cells don't have much future for transportation. Perhaps stationary energy sources when hydrogen is produced seasonally by way of solar and stored for 6 months in huge tanks.
its got a battery, why dont they make it a "plug in hybrid" that would reduce the need for the hydrogen. thinking about it maybe that's an option, EV for every day, hydrogen for long distance where filling up at a motorway filling station would not be an issue. There is talk of moving our gas supply over to burning hydrogen so surely "home charging" of hydrogen would fuel cells would be possible?
Adrian Chapmanlaw one issue with that though. WEIGHT. If it was a phev, even with smaller tanks and preparations for systems that make it smaller, it would weigh at least over three tonnes which for any type of car which would be a little silly and make it quite underpowered
@@maxnewts mute point really as hydrogen is a non starter for small vehicles. It's so much more efficient to skip the electrolysis, compression and transportation and just put the electricity straight in a battery!
I love the way the neck looks. It kinda looks like a mix of a Hyundai (which has a lot of modern design elements from Audi and VW thanks to their recent hires) and a Lexus. Super classy and modern inside and out
Thunder Shadow You mean: a bit less inefficient. You cannot overcome the massive losses in production, transport and compression simply because of laws of physics.
People who slag this technology off are so so narrowminded. Yes Hydrogen cels need work, as do batteries in EVs, so do Petrol and diesel cars, technology improves constantly if you let it. Oneday petrol, diesel, hydrogen and batteries will become increasingly efficient, you dont get to peak efficiency by NOT DEVELOPING THEM. This car is not the final evolution of hydrogen power, its one of the first steps.
Yep, Tesla and BEV fanboys would like to see this technology killed when it is still in it's infancy stage. Their mentality is so much against any competing green technology. After all, they are not so much different from fossil fuel industry...!
The "people who slag them off" realise they can NEVER be as efficient. Too many steps that require energy. However efficient you make each step it will never be as efficient as the "Raw" Electricity > grid > car > motor of BEV's. Not physically possible!
Petrol cars have had 100 years of development, and the average efficiency is the same as the Model T (25 mpg). Some things are just inherently less efficient. Unless we start making Hydrogen directly from sunlight, it will always be less efficient than batteries since it has so many more steps.
Physics exists you can do the maths it’s not possible to improve them anywhere like the amount you would need to be able too, plus being able to charge at home for most people is more useful than speed, most people are just driving to work and the shops 99% of the time
I believe it beeps at you whenever you pass an exit or intersection to let you know you r on the right track. also it may beep whenever there's speed camera ahead. Haven't been back to korea for ages😂
The focus on air purification seems like a classic case of "It's not a bug - it's a feature". A battery EV doesn't need to purify the air, so as far as it's concerned it's an unnecessary step. However it's vital on a hydrogen EV so they're trying to dress it up as some sort of amazing feature rather than a hindrance. If you were really that concerned about air purification, you could just stick a purifier on a battery EV.
How can something beneficial be a bug? They've got all the reasons to advertise hydrogen for the 'bug' tbh, I would do it too! I agree that as of now it's not efficient but it needs time, just like EVs needed.
I remember an old film ( early 80s ? ) an Los Angeles car mechanic doing a "smog " check on a car . He kept questioning his readings until he figured out that the city air was more polluted than the exhust coming out of the car that he was testing !
I never worried much about roads getting wet but adding large amounts of water vapor (either directly via exhaust or evaporation off road surfaces) has some potential downsides as water vapor is a significant greenhouse gas. It could be particularly problematic in warm dry climates. Easy enough to fix, though. Just collect and use the water instead of dumping it out the back.
Well presented episode as always but this still feels like a last ditch effort by fossil fuel companies to stay relevant. I think we are starting into the Lithium Age and hydrogen is 1988s answer to 2018s problems. The few advantages of hydrogen (range and refueling time) are steadily shrinking and will become meaningless soon in the face of battery advancements.
The thing is me as a consumer when I'm driving a HFC vehicle I'm not responsible for any carbon emissions. So don't go after manufacturers of HCF cars. Go after people generating and storing hydrogen. In the gasoline industry the filling station isn't responsible for pollution. The consumer smashing on the gas pedal is responsible.
Ziggi Mon there are more than 2.2 million BEV’s driving around in the world today - compared to 6’500 hydrogen cars - I hope that helps you understand a bit better of whats really going out there...
Too early, in fact Japan doesn't seem to agree with you. Toyota sells quite a lot of fuel cell cars and Japanese Gov. spends a lot to build stations. Korea, on the other hand, is actually lagging in terms of infrastructure although hydrogen cell car technology is known to be more advanced than Japanese. We'll see but I think it makes more sense than electric cars in many ways. The very down side of EV is its required time to recharge and people don't like that kind of inconvenience. Once production cost goes down to affordable level and stations are wide spread, I don't see any reason it will not take off. But EVs have just too many inconvenience to be everybody's car.
brown bobby what your generation is missing is the change in the mind set that comes with the new technology - you will only understand that once you make the jump and buy an EV....
nice episode Fullycharged. new things i learnt. and new thoughts... as an automobile engineer. i find it quite complicated. but perhaps it will find its place in the whole scheme of new age automobile infrastructure.
A hydrogen fool-cell! More expensive to buy than a BEV, more expensive to fuel than a BEV and less efficient than a BEV. The only positive is the fueling time,..... At the very few filling stations that actually exist..... Hydrogen fuel cell cars are cool and all, but are not the future, in large scale at least (and I'm talking only about passanger cars). Pure EVs are the future, while hydrogen will remain on the side and be that edgy emo kid of cars. Though that air cleaning thing is very cool..... the sad part is that it cannot drive on Mars, but could be useful in polluted cities. 9:50 - It's pissing all over the place! 16:09 - If it was a diesel bus, we would not hear anything, just *RARARARARARARA* Of course, I'm talking about how they are right now, there is a big chance that they're going to get used in huge vehicles, like aeroplanes. (That could create a situation in which someone thinks that a bird peed on him when a plane flew above because it was a hydrogen plane :D)
Evolt while I agree with you on all fronts, being an Leaf owner myself, there is one area that FCVs excel in where BEVs don’t and, at times, that’s practicality. Until battery charging tech gets to the point where it’s fully charging in minutes, regular gas, NGV, and FCV have fueling times at a practical point compared to BEV...more specifically on long haul trips. While I absolutely love the Tesla semi (it was in my town just yesterday), I think Nikola has the right idea with a hydrogen powered semi...and it gets over 1,000mi of range before needing to be refueled and refueling times are like diesel. Sure it’s less efficient than BEV but the practicality is there and, I think we can both agree, it’s waaaaaaay better than running diesel through a semi.
You missed out on a big advantage of fuel cells, doesn’t need nearly as much battery as EV’s which means more raw material available (not depleting the worlds supply as fast), also some of those materials are very unethically obtained in Africa, and I hear the pollution required to build an EV makes it almost obsolete as a fossil fuel saver
A light summer rain sounds nice. Freezing rain in the winter, less so. Now this water is really a drop in the bucket compared to other sources (snow melt etc.) but it should be considered. What, for example, do they do to keep the water from freezing in the tail pipe?
Hydrogen fuel cell is the future, the EV car lithium battery is too heavy and takes too many expensive minerals and metals to manufacture the battery while hydrogen fuel cell takes much less and also much lighter of the drive system.
The Hyundai Nexo has a 12 kWh lithium-ion battery pack, so it has batteries and all the ancillary equipment to store hydrogen, run the filter system for the air intake make the car weigh as much, if not slightly more than a battery electric vehicle.
I have Prius prime plug-in 8.2 KWh can only do 40 KM on EV mode, Tesla 3 has 75 KWh, that means Nexo overall uses only a fraction the size of the lithium-ion battery than Tesla 3 and can go over 2 times the distance than Tesla 3.
Lots of nerdy argument out there from hydrogen 'experts' who - for some reason, want it to be 'the future'. Simple question from a non 'expert': how do we get(in the UK) from now, where hydrogen cars are v. expensive and there are almost literally no hydrogen fuel stations, to 'the future', where hydrogen cars are competitively priced and hydrogen fuel stations are readily accessible wherever you live? Bear in mind hydrogen cars will be competing with battery electric vehicles which are already almost competitively priced, and which can be charged in numerous locations(crucially, at home). To say that hydrogen is the future seems to be a massive leap of faith to put it mildly. To the unbiased observer(!) the race would seem to have been lost already... And this doesn't even consider cheaper cars when the big manufacturers get on board, and any new or improved battery technologies which could increase range and further reduce prices...
So the simple answer to your simple question is it depends on Governments commitment to clean air and you need to stop thinking only about cars. Commercial vehicles are the most air-polluting individually (cars may be more collectively), and batteries are not a good solution for many of them because down-time is bad for commercial operators waiting for the vehicles to recharge, and battery weight limits the vehicle range. Both of these are solved by switching them to the hydrogen solution. Accepting this means that Hydrogen filling stations simply must be constructed anyway to supply them, even if many cars are currently adopting battery-only technology. Eventually the network of Hydrogen filling stations will make the choice between FCEV and BEV much easier for everyone, some will choose BEV because they don't do long distances and they can fill up at home, others will choose FCEV because their lifestyle demands the complete opposite i.e. regularly travelling long distances or can't charge at home. At the same time the price of the FC technology will reduce as volumes go up. This year's KPMG report estimates very nearly 25% each for BEV, FCEV, ICE and Hybrid by 2040. assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/nl/pdf/2018/sector/automotive/global-automotive-executive-survey-2018.pdf
Why does Japanese Gov. spends a lot of money building station? They are dumb? Why do you think Toyota spends a ton of money into hydrogen cell car RnD?
wait a minute... teslabjørn (youtube: Bjørn Nyland) just tested the Kia Niro pure eletric a few days ago... And winter in September!? in Korea?? Hydrogen has it's pros & cons, but pure EV is better and cheaper for the consumer. Just imagine the cost of airfilter changes while "cleansing the city air", or fuelcell replacemets... those fuelcells contains platina, wich is kind of rare and expensive...
This video could have been done on planet Mars.... - No idea on performances of this car - No idea on how much does it cost to fill the tank - No idea on the price/availability of this car - No idea on how to manage huge risks of driving/parking with an 'hydrogen bomb' in the trunk Waste of time, waste of energy, waste of money.
1) When we talk about the car cleaning the air as it moves (which I love) does this also mean potentially higher maintenance in terms of more regular air filter changes? 2) If I remember my chemistry correctly, hydrogen is a flammable gas, isn't it? In the event of a collision, is this better, worse, or equal in terms of risk of explosion?
Why not hydrogen for commercial! The pace of 'H' refueling stations will be really slow in comparison to 'EV' chargers! EV for public The rate of charging facilities is getting better for 'EVs'
Did you mean "relatively fast"? The Tesla Semi has shown one solution for large vehicles. Split battery packs into 2 or 3 sections. Connect each section to a fast charger. 3 Times the charge speed!
Great show Bobbylew. A couple of questions / comments on this (not criticisms). Did a quick google on hydrogen production - lots of new exciting ideas about how to create hydrogen through various thermochemical reactions but at the moment the main source is from natural gas which makes me not such a fan! On the coach journey down the hill I was waiting for you to tell us how much MORE charge you had in the batteries from all that regen breaking on the way down! I also want to know more about the cost and replacement lifecycle of these super air filters. Wouldn't it be nice if these were fitted to the back end of current ICE cars!! At 9:18 you completely missed a massive solar farm outside!!
Whenever you feature a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in any of your videos, the majority of the comments are as toxic and horrible as diesel fuel. And how people are that narrow and hive minded in 2018 is ludicrous. It's quite common knowledge as it is now that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not as efficient as battery electric vehicles in power generation or usage but with research and development and general refining it can be so much better. For example, I see so many saying that it wastes energy transporting hydrogen in tankers but it's been proven that you can cut that slow wasteful part out by doing what the Shell garage did with the electrolyser on site and have it running on renewables. It can be done that way and it should, if the hydrogen comes from gas reforming our fossil fuels then it's pointless, you'd might aswell just use a petrol car. Three of the biggest problems with current EVs is the battery materials like lithium are not abundant, and so many batteries are needed for each of those EVs so it's not sustainable. Buyers of plug in EVs often forget how filthy the process is in the creation of their vehicles, people still use diesel diggers and earth movers for all those materials and you can't recycle all those batteries when they go bad so what's gonna happen to them then? And third, the bad range and very slow charging of EVs is still awful. I'm not basing my life around the charging of a vehicle, I want the vehicle to base around my life. If you ask any owner of current EVs how long it takes to charge if you go for a long journey, they'll say it usually takes around half hour ~ forty minutes "rapid" charging, enough time to go to the toilet and have a coffee. It sounds like they're having trouble going to the toilet and need to seriously go and see their doctor and they must love cold coffee. It's just bonkers that people are so accepting of this lifestyle. At least hydrogen got that part won because it takes about the same amount of time as petrol vehicle to refill, but again, the infrastructure is lacking so badly at the moment, especially in the UK. Whatever happens I the future, anything's better than disgusting filth diesel. I really enjoyed this video, I didn't know much about the Nexo. It's really nice to more hydrogen fuel cell news, thanks 👍✌
Johny40Se7en well said. Many forget or ignore the fact that the large scale production of lithium ion batteries is not sustainable in the long term. In addition the mining and production process and cost is hardly mentioned. Companies like Hyundai, Toyota and Honda continue to explore hydrogen fuel cell technology because they realize technology changes rapidly and that research and development moves plausible ideas forward. What was true 5 years ago may have completely changed simply because technology has transformed the landscape. Anyone who claims to have all the answers related to the future of fuel cell technology today is nearsighted at best. Fuel cell technology is a viable option in addition to improving battery technology. Remember there was a time when educated men couldn’t imagine we could master flight or ever travel to the moon
I own a 130 Mile range Toyota RAV4 BEV. The majority of times I use a fast charger (once a month) are for partial charges, i.e. 10 min, to get me home. A 150 mile range BEV is convenient for most drivers. For some drivers, current 300 mile range BEVs are convenient. And then for the very small group of long distance road warriors, they probably need to wait for the next gen (solid state) BEVs with 600 mile range and 800 volt charging to satisfy their ill-perceived needs, with a plug-in hybrid filling their wait time.
There are several counter-arguments I'd raise here. In terms of range and charging, ranges are increasing and charge times are decreasing, and that's only going to continue over time. In terms of batteries, we're using Li-Ion because that's the best choice *right now*, but there are other technologies *really* close to production viability that are far cleaner *and* have improved range and charge times (and by the way, Hydrogen fuel cells aren't exactly free of rare-earth minerals and nasty substances). This second point leads to infrastructure: Any battery will charge using an electrical source, so developing an infrastructure for electrical charging allows for a variety of new technologies to appear over time. An infrastructure based on hydrogen ties us into hydrogen and is as much a dead end as our reliance on fossil fuels is now. BEVs can also be charged anywhere, at home, at work, while shopping, etc., and BEV charging therefore has the capability to develop a far wider charging network than hydrogen fuelling ever will. I think Hydrogen fuel cells are amazing, but they've come to the race 20 years too late and the fuelling infrastructure problem is huge. Even with vast sums and a really dedicated developer, it'll take decades for Hydrogen to have any reasonable fuelling coverage of even the mainland UK. As of right now, September 2018, there are FOURTEEN Hydrogen filling stations in the UK, while there are 6200 BEV points, 385 added in the last *month* alone. BEV charging may currently be slow, but at least you can do it anywhere there's an appropriate mains socket. It'd be impossible to visit Scotland in a Hydrogen car right now (there's one station in Aberdeen and the next one to the South is Rotherham), but you could visit in a BEV, even a remote cottage, as long as it has a mains connection. In summary, yes, right now Hydrogen is possibly cleaner than using Li-Ion batteries, but the BEV technology isn't standing still and there's no point developing a dead-end fuelling infrastructure that'll take 20 years to complete, only to find that in 5 years time we're no longer using Li-Ion and ranges and charge times have effectively ended any perceived problem. As another commentor has said, it's entirely possibly, likely even, that Hydrogen is a good solution for PSVs operating in a city, or for trucks or other heavy machinery, but it really doesn't make sense for private cars.
Hydrogen is too corrosive, to be practical you have to coat all of the surfaces that come into contact with the fuel with GOLD, the high cost is why Honda will only lease them, they want their gold back.
Simply unbelievable! The tech to clean the air while generating electricity with zero emissions and producing water that could be captured and used elsewhere!? All in a package with killer looks and colors!? Sign me up!!! I truly think this is the future of cars, electric and fuel cell all powered by each other 😀 Except the US won't let it happen....
I fully AGREE with last comment. Hydrogen fuel is wast of time for mass market.oh and that wasted water at back of tall pip would be dangerous in winter when it freeezes over on mass if lots trucks cars buses used it.Ice skatting on roads anybody
I really want to agree with you because I share your sentiment, but I don't think you're factually correct. For one thing, gasoline and diesel engines already emit around the same amount of water (hydrocarbon + oxygen = water + carbon dioxide), and for another, the amount of water coming out of a fuel cell in a passenger vehicle isn't enough to form sheets of ice. And your spellchecker is broken.
I never thought that water emissions might be a problem. But when I saw this small trickle of water running out of the tailpipe I realized that if there were more FCEVs on the roads it would create a real trouble in northern countries in winter.
@@BigManator and just using excess renewables... How renewable is that? Soon there will be solar/battery parks in every village. No need to waste not if it on heat in conversion and transport.
@@Cloxxki yeah you are right. excess renewable energy could never cover the demand even slightly. If there was ever so much excess energy, only because someone has built way too many power plants, making these not really excess anymore.
yutuniopati . Sure. Water is so last century. We don’t need water anymore ! What are the tree’s thinking taking the Hydrogen out of water and leaving us to breathe their waste Oxygen ? ! Hydrogen is far more abundant than Lithium. It is the ULTIMATE fuel. Clean, limitless and flexible.
Great show Robert and exciting to see a hydrogen fuel cell bus at the end! Hyundai really seem to have all bases covered! I like the idea of saving energy produced from renewables in the summer (Like German solar) to use in the winter.
I just had to stop at 8 minutes Bobby, any further review of hydrogen powered cars is a dead dog and a waste of everyones time. you have said it explicitly yourself in your previous videos that a pure electric vehicle means that you can generate your own energy at home and free you from the fossil fuel industry. The only reason hydrogen fuel cells are being pushed into the consumer space is to keep the fossil fuel industry plugged into your car. look at the complexity of the technology in that car the engine / fuel cell structure right there means you are back into the Enormous cost and servicing cycle of complex machinery that is why it is completely insane why a single person would never purchase such a car. Total and crazy waste of time for the consumer, business might be a tiny bit of a different story but as the Tesla semi is showing probably not. further evidence for the futility of hydrogen is the fact that one has to have the fuel stations. recently in Norway I believe at least one provider is throwing in the towel and giving up on installing hydrogen fuel stations that is the real sign of hydrogen at the end of life before it even begins. The hydrogen fool cell is less of a joke than it really appears. If we wanted to portray a more extreme example of its futility we might liken it a little bit to the Hinkley C Power Station endeavours?
The fact that it purifies the air as it runs is rad! I think there is a role for this technology along with other type of electric drives. Obviously its going to take time. But if energy management technology becomes more ubiquitous using Hydrogen as a storage mechanism, this technology will definitely gain traction.
Surprised to hear that Korea only have 4 hydrogen stations to refill the car - here in Denmark we've got 10 already! I'm looking very much forward to the NEXO being launched here in Denmark in spring of 2019, could very well be my next car :) Thanks for a great video!
Thanks once again for another great FC episode. Please give us more! Thanks! We all need to have an honest, open talk about the pros and cons of Hydrogen vs. Batteries as energy storage devices. How about a Fully Charged debate? (Live?)...
For Australia these types of cars will do very well. With the vast distances electric vehicles can't compete as you have to spend 40-60 mins to recharge between our state capital cities.
Actually electric car has limitation during winter and summer when you need heater or conditioner, and when its cold you have problem with battery. Not only that hydro car and elec car is not so different. Hyundai can switch to elec car when they just replace fuel to battery because they are mostly same principle.
Speaking of Fuel Cell, have you heard how the Bloombox from Bloom Energy is doing. They make a large fuel cell for power usage. Bloom Energy was supposed to come out with a residential version. It was supposed to be a game changer! Wonder how they are progressing with the Residential version.
Tech like this gets my adrenaline pumping. It might not be perfect. It might not be cheap. But the fact that today we have a production fuel cell vehicle on the road (remember 10 or 20 years ago people compared hydrogen based cars with nuclear weapons) is exciting and encouraging. Give the companies a few more years and I can guarantee we will have cars that are affordable, fuel that is affordable and overall running costs are in line with what we get with gasoline powered cars. For our children. For our planet.
4:58 "and then what comes out"...is a dirty, high density filter, that needs to be changed very often probably, since it's efectiveness is so high. Let's not forget, it ain't magic...
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can't fault hyundai. they're developing every next gen technology.
Audi did
Honda is working on it too. In the US, it has 3 Honda Clarity's. One PHEV, EV, and Fuel Cell. The PHEV is for sale while the other two are only for lease. I believe the Fuel Cell can only be leased in California since it has some Hydrogen infrastructure.
Dave Baghramian who is Audi?
hydrogen ist no next gen. its oldschool and has been abandoned because it is difficult to implement charging stations, the fuel is horrendously expensive ,range not much more than witha battery powered car. It's only advantage is that it can refuel about 6-8x as fast as a battery car on long range trips - provided you can find a hydrogen station
hydrogen has only recently (last decade) been commercialized, it's still in its infancy. i wouldn't count it out. it still has a lot of room for growth. fossil fuel is the real dead end.
That's the nicest Hyundai interior I've ever seen. Simply lovely.
Absolutely awesome development. I can't wait to drive a hydrogen car in the future!
In Switzerland some big players in logistics and food industry (whick own fillings stations) build a pact to get 1000 Hyundai heavy duty hydrogen trucks until 2023 and build filling stations nation wide. First of those 1000s will rolle on swiss roads end of 2019. I look forward to see the momentum!
All I have to say is THANK YOU! for this channel. There's no one else out there catering to this audience and with this standard of quality.
I think Hydrogen Fuel Cells for Electricity Generating Stations sounds like a great way to store excess Electrical Power for when it's needed. However, I'm not convinced for private vehicles as it smacks of a way to ensure we all keep paying for annual services and hugely expensive parts like Air Filters. The advantage of battery is that the amount of spares regularly needed is significantly reduced and it can be 'refuelled' at home.
Yeah, I must concur. I think I will switch from BEV to HEV when domestic electrolizers become available and in my price bracket. So instead of a powerwall have an electrolyzer to store domestic PV and wind. The one thing that freaks me out about hydrogen though is how dangerous it could be. I mean, I have had this vision of a hydrogen lorry smashing into a bridge and the explosion taking the whole bridge out. I'm not convinced that a head on head in a hydrogen car would not result in a massive fireball.
You can pump hydro on high altitude from solar during day and at night that water on the hill will produce electricity during night. Pumped hydro is 85% efficient. Search pumped hydro storage.
We can send electricity trough high voltage DC (milions of volts) ocean cables from continent to continent. When they have night we send them electricity when is dark we get electricity from them. Global electrical network, just like Internet's Undersea Cables. That way we can produce 100% electricity from Sun.
The advantage is that the energy density of stored hydrogen is enormous compared to that of lithium batteries, useful for transport and at home (one day solar panels/small turbines will likely go into h2 storage rather than bigger and bigger batteries). And also far fewer materials going in to build the motor/fuel cell compared to batteries. If the filter is the main serviceable component - then that's a good target for tech dev to produce reusable/cleanable filters.
or using ocaes or only caes tecnology.
Martin Menge batteries and gas tanks also tend to explode when they are smashed
My problem with hydrogen is it puts a corporation back in charge of my fuel. I see it as a substitute for petroleum. I prefer using solar at my house to charge my car, eliminating my dependence on large corporations.
Says he commenting on a Google site (3rd biggest company in the world) and possibly typing on an Apple product? 🤣 #eliminating #dependence
Gotta keep the number of overlords to a minimum. Replacing fossil fuel overlords for the new data hording overlords is a sign of the times.
Chris Cross nothing wrong with eliminating the fuel suppliers.....your point was exactly? We are currently going through a major energy disruption and many companies will have to refocus in order to survive - great stuff and it empowers consumers like John and that is a great thing....
badchefi My point "exactly" is there are lashings of smug hypocrisy dollopped into some of these comments here. I just picked one of them to poke at. Nothing wrong with EV's . . bring 'em on I say. But when someone types "eliminating my dependence on large corporations" when in fact that person is now dependent on corporations many times larger than the ones he's forgone (huge users of fossil fuels also, never mind spurious overseas labor crimes) I felt obliged to respond. If you want to plant your flag in this topic let's hash this out here but I've a feeling on reflection you may see some merit in my argument.
Chris Cross you are right about the hypocrisy - I drive an electric car myself (love the technology and its efficiency) and end up talking to so many other EV drivers that are completely deluded.
Anyone else notice Robert saying that he was in Pyongyang at 15:33?
EDIT: And again at 16:30!
Yep, Pyongyang is in North Korea, while Pchjongjang is in South Korea.
Well, my country's city names are quite hard to pronounce for foreginers.
there will be another apology episode from Robert hee hee :)
9:47 Pyeongchang
@@AmongUs-mb4qx That is Gangneung
Hydrogen has its detractors, but in my opinion so long as it's not petrol or diesel powered I'm happy 😀
Space travel would eliminate atmosphere hindrance of solar output and all ready produce oxygen for human and livestock use enabling the use in rockets.
Disagree, these vehicles only serve to slow adoption of EVs because it makes it seem like the fight hasn't been settled (it has)
Jon Tait in a lot of cases, hydrogen power is petrol power, that's why big oil is so happy about it.
@@speedgraphic
It's a physical substance high in energy (higher if you don't combine it with oxygen possibly useful for rockets over other transport, as we have less use of electron drives).
hydrogen isn't clean! around 90% of worlds production is made from natural gas steam. Not clean. only a viable option IF its made on site and from renewable energy.
Hydrogen fuel cells make a lot of *sense on ships.*
The shipping industry does pollute more faster than cars.
And it needs to stop polluting ASAP. And they also certainly make far more sense on aircraft & long haul trucks than battery electric. I'm surprised Hyundai don't seem to be concentrating on that side of the tech
@@YAUUN Hyundai has jointed with France MOU to export 2,000 hydrogen fuel trucks, which clearly shows Hyundai is also considering the large transportation fields such as trucks, subway, and hopefully aircrafts.
As usual, fantastic direction and camera work!
Like it too. Very nice show about all the electric and renewable things.
It's much better than TV, I think.
Wow...what a sophisticated vehicle. Thanks for the look-see.
It has been over a year, closer to two, that I have not watched a fully charged episode.. I missed it so much that I decided I should give you a visit tonight. Thank You for being relaxing and beautiful, and informative :)
What an AMAZING video! Could watch this all day. I would love it to be at such an Hyundai event. Lovely to see the Hydrogen powered bus as well, the future is here already!
Great to watch - and listen that Robert is not biased for any new technology but promotes equally BEV, PHEV and Fuel-Cell..I think as always that there is no one-fit-for-all technology it is great that there are alternative paths.
Cost to refill. Long Answer: Hydrogen fuel prices range from $12.85 to more than $16 per kilogram (kg), but the most common price is $13.99 per kg (equivalent on a price per energy basis to $5.60 per gallon of gasoline), which translates to an operating cost of $0.21 per mile. More expensive than petrol he didn't mention that!
Yes but indeed there will be an advance technology to reduce the cost of hydrogen and South Korea recently invented new technology to produce hydrogen cheaper
Trains, buses, trucks, ships and perhaps even airplanes. Hydrogen is a viable solution for all of them simply because you can have a lot of power filled in a relatively short time period. As far as I know, fuel cells don't degrade as much as batteries do over time and are cleaner to make. YES, the fuel production process is less efficient, but once we have nearly every house producing solar of their own and wind, what the heck are we going to do with the excess power? Batteries everywhere is an option, but think about that the next time a 4,000 kilowatt diesel locomotive pulls some freight past your house. The future is a hybrid between Hydrogen and battery, powered by solar, wind and, perhaps, tidal. Hyundai is not stupid to invest in both technologies.
Oh the number of things we could do with *excess* power...
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere would be the first recommendation.
Locomotives should, of course, just be pure electric, as they already are in sensible countries.
@@CorwynGC agree there's a number of things that can be done. However, not all train lines are electrified and H2 is an economical way to move away from diesel. Same goes for large scale shipping which is grossly polluting. All I'm saying is, there is a space for this tech as well.
Buses and trucks are practical with just batteries. The Tesla semi prototype is already hauling cargo all over the place, and batteries are only going to get better. Buses in particular, since EVs are great at low speed stop-and-start traffic.
Trains should use electric rails where possible, but I can see hydrogen being a more cost effective solution in a lot of cases. Hydrogen also makes more sense for ships. Though I wouldn't rule out batteries completely.
With sufficient advancements and mass production, both ships and trains could conceivably be battery powered. I don't think it's likely, but it's not impossible.
Airplanes definitely won't be battery powered though. More than any other common form of transport, they need high specific energy fuels. Batteries probably won't ever allow for an aircraft on par with a modern jet airliner, though smaller craft for short regional flights might be possible.
Though I have to say, looking at it from an engineering standpoint, I don't quite understand why hydrogen is being promoted over methane. Most hydrogen comes from methane reformation anyway, so there's no extra pollution there.
Methane can also be produced renewably with comparable efficiency to hydrogen electrolysis by sucking CO2 out of the air and combining it with water via the sabatier reaction.
It can also be used in fuel cells, again with comparable efficiency to hydrogen.
But it has one key advantage: Storability. It's much denser than hydrogen, which means you can store it at much lower pressure for the same volume, or a much smaller volume at the same pressure. It also doesn't cause hydrogen embrittlement.
My guess for why it isn't popular is because it would emit CO2 directly from the car, so it doesn't have the appearance of being green, even though it's actually about the same as hydrogen overall in practice.
Any trains not electrified can be, for far less than converting the whole thing over to Hydrogen. Electricity is already everywhere. Planes may well be a place for this tech, I am not knowledgeable on the particulars there.
CorwynGC
I can't see it being cost effective to electrify rails hundreds of km away from the nearest power station in places like Siberia. Electricity isn't 'everywhere', it's just 'most places where civilization is'.
Many train routes go quite a long way from civilization, and electricity doesn't transmit along tracks very far. You have to run an overhead line that whole distance, or run power to the tracks at regular intervals.
The UK estimates that it would cost ~$1.5 million per km of track to electricity any given rail in the UK, which has significantly more available electricity and infrastructure than many places around the world. In my country a good few years back we electrified 400km of rail in a remote mountainous area, it cost about $250 million. It also cost a lot more to maintain, being so remote.
Another very important thing that has to be considered is traffic. A line that only runs a single train a few times per year would benefit from electrification much less than a line that runs dozens of trains every day. The thing is that that overhead line costs about the same to maintain regardless of how much it's used.
Say a hydrogen train costs 15 million to fuel per 1 million km traveled, versus only 5 million for an electric train. Say that 100km of overhead line costs 0.5 million to maintain per year.
So a single hydrogen train that travels on a 500km track twice a week will travel only 50,000km per year, costing $750,000. If that train were electric it would cost 250,000 to run, plus 2.5 million for maintaining the overhead line, or 2.75 million total.
But a dozen hydrogen trains running that same track every day would travel 2.1 million km per year, costing 31.5 million. If those trains were electric it would cost 10.5 million to run them, plus 2.5 million for maintaining the overhead line, or 13 million total.
In the first situation hydrogen is three and a half times cheaper. In the second situation it costs nearly three times as much. Obviously those numbers would vary with different cost assumptions, but the point is that for high traffic, the cheaper cost of electricity wins, but for low traffic, maintenance can outweigh fuel costs.
TLDR; short, local, high traffic routes favor electrification. Long, remote, low traffic routes favor hydrogen. That's why I said 'I can see hydrogen being a more cost effective solution in a lot of cases'.
In the Netherlands we are currently testing if we can replace gass with hydrogen to warm our houses and water using the original gaslines. If this is possible it will make charging your hydrogyn car at home possible as well.
an explosive idea
Sounds like a horrible plan to let people own and maintain their private hydrogen compression (700 bar) and refilling station.
I went there as a volunteer for the PyeongChang olympic. Worked at IBC (International Broadcast Center) as an IT
Yrs ago I thought hydrogen was going to be the cats ass. Now I dont care for it in light of EV's as I am trying to get away from having to go to the gas station for the majority! Why the heck would I want to start going to have to go to another station to refill when I can charge over night at home - I am loving EV all the way but I am sure there will be a market for Hydrogen.
Cheers, Patrick
"the cats ass"?
That's methane!
I totally agree, although some say it may eventually be possible to purchase a small, affordable, and safe device that uses solar energy to generate and compress hydrogen at home. Of course, such a thing does not exist, and may never, but kudos to anyone who figures out how to make one.
The videography/production and incidental music choice on this episode is stunning. Really enjoyed watching, keep up the good work!
Lovely video, as always Robert you are a pleasure to listen to and the gorgeous filming and production a joy to watch. But there’s a strong sense that you are giving Hyundai and Hydrogen a polite benefit of the doubt here. I think like many of your viewers this tech seems like a real long shot - Hyundai hedging their bets basically. While pure electric really feels like it’s arrived, hydrogen is still a bit of a head scratcher.
I can't get pass without mentioning that BIG BEAUTIFUL parka you have, absolutely gorgeous.
About 15-20 years ago I was very enthusiastic about the possibilities of the hydrogen vehicle. But then batteries started to get better and better to the point where they started to become a realistic option. And nowadays the idea of a hydrogen electric car is great, but it has been somewhat overtaken by the battery electric variety. BEVs can exist with almost no extra charging infrastructure (though it's much nicer to have it), whereas HEVs have to have it, and it is just as complicated and involved as the FF infrastructure. All so that we can put some decent miles in the tank in a couple of minutes rather than 30. I still think hydrogen has a place and might even find a large market future in some field. But not in personal vehicles, and impressive that the Hyundai undoubtedly is, it is an expensive and complicated way of being a battery electric car. Nice of it to clean the air though.
Was great to see the countryside of S. Korea although brief bits,...Brings back fond memories of my time there as a US Army soldier in the mid to late 80's! I think Hyundai is showing the world that there a force to be reckoned with when it comes to technology and great features in their vehicles. But unfortunately in my country there are still those who think of Hyundai as the company that produces cheap cars lol!!!!!...Nothing could be further from the truth!!!!!
That center stack looks HUGE. Like Hummer H1 sized.
I absolutely love this youtube channel. The reviews are really good and completely un-biased. Since subscribing I am more excited about future transportation technologies. Thanks for the awesome channel guys! 🤓
Hydrogen EV: Produce power from renewables --> Send power to hydrogen plant --> Split water into hydrogen & oxygen --> Compress hydrogen to 700 bar --> Transport hydrogen to fuel station --> Fill car up with hydrogen --> Produce electricity from hydrogen --> Turn motor
Battery EV: Produce power from renewables --> Send power to car battery --> Produce electricity from battery --> Turn motor
I think Occam's Razor wins out once again. Each one of those steps is a point where energy is lost, and there are far more steps when it comes to hydrogen.
Drunken Hobo, and hydrogen, being a very small molecule, leaks out of containment quickly. So transportation losses are much higher than electrical transmission losses. And storage losses are much higher than battery self-discharge or gas/diesel evaporation.
That's why you can't pipe hydrogen in the same way you can pipe natural gas, so you have to transport it in gas cylinders. But 5 kg of hydrogen needs roughly 95 kg of cylinder and that scales linearly with size. So for enough gas to fill the same as a petrol tanker (750 cars) you'll need to haul a load of at least 75 tonnes.
Thanks for this . i was wondering how hydrogen logistics works. thanks i learnt something.
Did we not long ago have an episode where it was made on site, at the side of a shell petrol station in the uk?, so no transport needed.
yes, but without the transport is still inefficient rather than the battery ev.
You answered many of the questions that I've long had about hydrogen powered cars. Thank you.
After watching ITV Tonight on buying a new car (read EV ish). I wish they'd let Robert Llywellyn run a 6 episode special with peeps being taught how to use pure EVs ... Give them home chargers, different brands and if they're in a flat, help them get started. Put them in different parts of the country. Allow them to blog every pump and journey. Make sure they're going to do a long trip. Put a single Nordic couple on with a different EV every week. Demonstrate how good the cars are and infrastructure. Make people ask why we're behind. Why we're aiming for 2040 rather than 2025 to switch from fossil to electric!
Tops on Hyundai for not taking sides and just simply taking in any/every alternative solution.
Vehicle looks fantastic, interior superb, packaging of fuel cell and batteries without compromising space is praiseworthy and clever.
Being able to power a household is another plus, especially in certain countries that experience blackouts.
Hydrogen fuel cell is the way to go.
Hydrogen is a horrible solution foisted on the world by the oil companies. They are selling you natural gas that has be processed into Hydrogen by releasing the CO2 into the atmosphere. That is not progress. Even generating Hydrogen from electric power is only 30% efficient. Battery powered electric cars are twice as efficient as Hydrogen cars. Toyota and other companies promoting Hydrogen are trying to fool the public. Very sad.
Thunder Shadow I’ve been doing this for ten years as I knew someone who was able to lend me some filters and production systems, it’s clean, it’s wonderful and it’s currently paying for half of my gas bills because it’s something I’m selling to British Gas for a small profit. I recommend it.
You seem so relaxed giving the commentary it must be one of the best hyundai car ever pity it wasn't electric only one Hydrogen station in the hole of New Zealand I have an Hyundai Ioniq Electric Elite have had it now for 17 months LOVE THE VIDIO
i guess you have to do something with the solar and wind poweroverflow, might as well store it as hydrogen and power some cars with it. i doubt they will ever overthrow BEVs as primary cars, but thats no reason to not develop them. there are niche cases where range and refuel time are important enough to warant tripple running costs.
You mean refuel time. Range for HFC is behind BEVs already.
But we really don't know what refuel time will be, because there is a wait time between each fueling of about 15 minutes. So the first guy get 5 minute refuel, the next one gets 20 minutes refuel, the third, who knows.
I can't imagine anyone who would be willing to pay three times the cost when they are driving enough to need mid-trip refueling in the first place (i.e. more than 300 miles on *most* trips) And not even comparing to a Tesla with unlimited *free* supercharging that can still be acquired.
Good point, but it's far more efficient to use flow batteries than Hydrogen, to deal with excess renewable energy.
If hydrogen is proposed as a way to store excess energy, it has dozens of other promising technologies to compete with.
The crazy thing is that Li-ion is in practice one of the cheapest ways to store energy that you can deploy anywhere (pumped hydro is so much better, but limited to specific locations). Economies of scale is a hell of a thing.
Sure, let’s develop the technology and see where it goes. But we shouldn’t bet all our money on it.
Blindspot solution is amazing. All car makers should follow!
Better than a hybrid gas car. Not as good as pure electric. I love the simplicity of filling up a mechanically simple, basically hermeticly sealed car at home. I'd stick with EV. Although putting the hydrogen fuel cells in my home charging my EV would be cool if there was money savings.
As far as I'm aware, fuel cell cars ARE still hybrids. They need a battery to buffer the electricity produced by the cell(?)
You are absolutely correct. I was making the emphasis about GASOLINE hybrids. :-) A major difference, however, is that this car has no ICE while almost all hybrids do. It's essentally an electric car with a fuel cell system as a "battery". Again, since I don't do a lot of long trips, I prefer the blissfull simplicity of a pure EV and all the complexity of hybrids does not appeal especiallys since I tend to keep cars for longer than most dogs live. :-) (Driving the 2015 LEAF I bought off of lease for $9600)
Why is it not as good as full BEV? If it purifies the air it drives through? Both technically reply on coal to power them. There is no mention of this car being able to be charged at home.. But if it was a PHFCEV that would be awesome. Get a range of around 100km on just batteries alone, and then fire up the stack to get you further down the road. 5 min refill to go 600km vs 2hrs wait on the charger? Yes 2 hours is very realistic time especially in the winter when batteries are cold, and you don't get the same range as you would in the summer. 400km rated BEVs tend to get about 60-70% range in the winter which sort of sucks.
When it comes to technology, good or bad are very contextual. When you need a wrench, a screwdriver is "bad" and a wrench is "good". I personally have a need for a super-simple device that I can expect to last a long time with minimal maintenance. Hybrids, although they have a pretty good track record, seem likely to become problematic once they become geriatric because of all thier parts and lots of material flowing through them. I need something simple that can present only simple problems down the road and that's why I love basic EVs. (not so much fancy ones) I would expect your needs to be different with some other kind of model being "good" for you. (hope you find just the right tool) :-)
@@foxpup I agree, the more tech you stuff into the car the more wrong can happen. This is why people always say : oh my 80s (insert Japanese car here) car ran forever and never broke down. That is because it was a simple design that worked and was engineered to work for many years to come. Today's cars are viewed as dispensable junk by many.
I think a lot of people here are bashing hydrogen unnecessarily. I don't think it's the best solution for the average consumer (cars, taxis, etc.), but I can see it being a great fuel source in its niche: coaches, lorries, construction vehicles, rubbish trucks, yachts/other private boats, ferries, maybe even aeroplanes? (yes, I've heard of Hindenburg).
Robert
You said that the hydrogen used via the fuel cell gives 50% efficiency.
It seems they worded the statement in such a way as to eliminate the first step, making the hydrogen(?)
If they compared
1) CNG > ICE engine > wheels (=25%)
To
2) CNG *(+electricity "A")* > hydrogen > fuel cell > electricity "B" > wheels (= 50%?)
I assume they accounted for the power used (A) to create the Hydrogen in the total efficiency?
How about fuel / infrastructure to transport the hydrogen to the point of use? (Tankers / drivers, etc).
Even if they did (?) It still means a 50% loss of the "original" electricity (A) to the "vehicle" electricity (B).
*Plus* both systems use power (electricity?) to produce the CNG!
So a BEV is still at least 50% more efficient!
It just doesn't make sense!!
(Sorry, still "fool cells")
Nice new format of vlogging your travel adventures. I like it.
why don't make a plugin hydrogen fuel cell car ? they do have a battery....
Like the Mercedes GLC fuel cell: 49 km with battery, 437 km (NEDC) with hydrogen.
Not available yet.
But might be an option for big and expensive cars in the future.
Good idea
Anuar Abdul Samad That’s a great idea. But the ones making hydrogen cars probably don’t want to. If you can charge your car at home, you’re not going to fill hydrogen very often. That means hydrogen stations won’t have a lot of customers. That means there will be fewer of them. That will make it so people don’t want to buy hydrogen cars.
These days, when the charging infrastructure is so good in many places, it would be much easier to sell a plug-in hydrogen car, since you wouldn’t be completely dependent of fuel stations. So it says a lot that they’re not doing it.
It’s the existential crisis of hydrogen cars.. so much of what they’re doing feeds into improvements and cost reductions of pure BEVs. They use the same motors, electronic and batteries after all. It cheaper/better BEVs implies a smaller niche for HFCs..
Simple answer for why it’s currently not happening would probably be weight for the other battery. Plugin hybrids require two battery packs to be reliably designed to be able to use the engine (or in this case the fuel cell) as little as possible. The reason for that is so that you still have another reserve battery for propulsion and accessories for when the other dies, with the second one being a lot smaller. Take for example the Prius plugin has two, which are both positioned in the mid rear section of the vehicle. The pluggable battery is in the boot floor where the conventional space saver wheel would normally go and the other is under the rear seats in a ventilated cover.
Awesome episode, fullycharged!
Didn't know that HFC cars were this advanced already.
For larger energy usages, like cars, hydrogen does not make sense.
First, they are promoting hydrogen as alternative to fossil fuels, and 95% of hydrogen coming from FOSSIL fuels (natural gas, huge amounts of CO2 are released in this process). Natural gas comes mostly from fracking. So hydrogen does not solve environment issues, and nobody will produce hydrogen on large scale with electrolysis while cheaper alternative is available.
As for getting hydrogen from water, for hydrogen you have to put in 100kWh of energy to get 30kWh to move the car. In EV, for 100kWh, you get 85kWh to move the car. So hydrogen station creating hydrogen on site will use so much electricity that it could charge 3 times more electric vehicles. For example, electricity used to fill up 1000 fuel cell vehicles for 300 miles, could fill up 3000 electric vehicles for the same mileage.
Price of hydrogen? Price will be around 15 US$ per kilogram, so you need 75$ to fill it up for 300 miles. Battery EV will cost you around 10$ for 300 miles.
Who loves hydrogen? Big oil companies, because they produce it from fossil fuels, and fuel cell cars would let them keep their monopoly.
You can say, we will put solar panels, wind turbine or any other renewable and make hydrogen that way for 'free', but that also does not make sense, because with the same solar panels or wind turbines you can support 3-4 times more electric than hydrogen vehicles.
I think he does. Can you elaborate on what your point is?
@@TheLordDerrick 95% of Hydrogen is extracted from fossil fuel (hydrocarbon, CnHn) and that creates CO2.
Derrick Monet The most common hydrogen production process is natural gas reforming - sometimes called steam methane reforming because it uses high-temperature steam. When exposed to steam and heat, the carbon (C) atoms of methane (CH4) separate. After two successive reactions, they reform separately to produce hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (co₂).
Then the trend should be, producing electricity from renewable sources, and using it directly for transportation, finally ditching every other contaminating form of electricity production (no good for oil or mining companies), am I right?
Is there any practical application of fuel cell technology you can see in the near o mid term future?
Thank you.
Airplanes can use hydrogen but they would burn it via combustion in regular turbine engines because the fuel cell would be way too bulky for the amount of power needed so fuel cells don't have much future for transportation. Perhaps stationary energy sources when hydrogen is produced seasonally by way of solar and stored for 6 months in huge tanks.
That Hyundai hydrogen fuel cell bus is impressive-Water comes out of the exhaust.
its got a battery, why dont they make it a "plug in hybrid" that would reduce the need for the hydrogen.
thinking about it maybe that's an option, EV for every day, hydrogen for long distance where filling up at a motorway filling station would not be an issue.
There is talk of moving our gas supply over to burning hydrogen so surely "home charging" of hydrogen would fuel cells would be possible?
Adrian Chapmanlaw one issue with that though. WEIGHT. If it was a phev, even with smaller tanks and preparations for systems that make it smaller, it would weigh at least over three tonnes which for any type of car which would be a little silly and make it quite underpowered
@@maxnewts mute point really as hydrogen is a non starter for small vehicles. It's so much more efficient to skip the electrolysis, compression and transportation and just put the electricity straight in a battery!
I love the way the neck looks. It kinda looks like a mix of a Hyundai (which has a lot of modern design elements from Audi and VW thanks to their recent hires) and a Lexus. Super classy and modern inside and out
I like this more than Tesla, hydrogen should be focused as much as electric, if not more. 5 minute refueling.
Harris Avaan No it should not. Driving on hydrogen is a massive waste of energy.
Thunder Shadow You mean: a bit less inefficient. You cannot overcome the massive losses in production, transport and compression simply because of laws of physics.
What a lovely and relaxing episode. I learnt lots and also feel very chilled thanks Robert
People who slag this technology off are so so narrowminded. Yes Hydrogen cels need work, as do batteries in EVs, so do Petrol and diesel cars, technology improves constantly if you let it. Oneday petrol, diesel, hydrogen and batteries will become increasingly efficient, you dont get to peak efficiency by NOT DEVELOPING THEM. This car is not the final evolution of hydrogen power, its one of the first steps.
Yep, Tesla and BEV fanboys would like to see this technology killed when it is still in it's infancy stage. Their mentality is so much against any competing green technology. After all, they are not so much different from fossil fuel industry...!
The "people who slag them off" realise they can NEVER be as efficient.
Too many steps that require energy.
However efficient you make each step it will never be as efficient as the "Raw" Electricity > grid > car > motor of BEV's.
Not physically possible!
@@ibrahimtouman2279
Idiot
Petrol cars have had 100 years of development, and the average efficiency is the same as the Model T (25 mpg). Some things are just inherently less efficient. Unless we start making Hydrogen directly from sunlight, it will always be less efficient than batteries since it has so many more steps.
Physics exists you can do the maths it’s not possible to improve them anywhere like the amount you would need to be able too, plus being able to charge at home for most people is more useful than speed, most people are just driving to work and the shops 99% of the time
I believe it beeps at you whenever you pass an exit or intersection to let you know you r on the right track. also it may beep whenever there's speed camera ahead. Haven't been back to korea for ages😂
The focus on air purification seems like a classic case of "It's not a bug - it's a feature". A battery EV doesn't need to purify the air, so as far as it's concerned it's an unnecessary step. However it's vital on a hydrogen EV so they're trying to dress it up as some sort of amazing feature rather than a hindrance.
If you were really that concerned about air purification, you could just stick a purifier on a battery EV.
Ev's should purify the air just think of all the fumes while sitting in a jam being sucked in by the aircon.
As Tesla Model Xs already do. (xref: Bio-weapon defense mode)
How can something beneficial be a bug? They've got all the reasons to advertise hydrogen for the 'bug' tbh, I would do it too!
I agree that as of now it's not efficient but it needs time, just like EVs needed.
It's incredibly quiet! Bonus points for noise cancelling!!!
Why do they need to pour the water on the road? Cant they store it in the car and dispose of it later?
I take it you have never visited Scotland
You would not belive the amount of water that falls out of the sky every single day
@@thinfourth pics.me.me/its-as-if-his-bones-have-disintegrated-but-what-could-25003656.png
I remember an old film ( early 80s ? ) an Los Angeles car mechanic doing a "smog " check on a car . He kept questioning his readings until he figured out that the city air was more polluted than the exhust coming out of the car that he was testing !
For buses or trucks Hydrogen may have a future, but probably not for cars like this....
So it makes more sense to you to move 500 kg Batteries to the supermarket?
I never worried much about roads getting wet but adding large amounts of water vapor (either directly via exhaust or evaporation off road surfaces) has some potential downsides as water vapor is a significant greenhouse gas. It could be particularly problematic in warm dry climates. Easy enough to fix, though. Just collect and use the water instead of dumping it out the back.
Well presented episode as always but this still feels like a last ditch effort by fossil fuel companies to stay relevant. I think we are starting into the Lithium Age and hydrogen is 1988s answer to 2018s problems. The few advantages of hydrogen (range and refueling time) are steadily shrinking and will become meaningless soon in the face of battery advancements.
I see hybrids as an answer
😱😱😱!
BUT not "that" kind of hybrid!
Battery /capacitor hybrids.
Ref fullycharged Estonia!
?
The thing is me as a consumer when I'm driving a HFC vehicle I'm not responsible for any carbon emissions. So don't go after manufacturers of HCF cars. Go after people generating and storing hydrogen. In the gasoline industry the filling station isn't responsible for pollution. The consumer smashing on the gas pedal is responsible.
pleasant to hear this gentlemen's voice.
Korea..really truly is incredible
Ziggi Mon there are more than 2.2 million BEV’s driving around in the world today - compared to 6’500 hydrogen cars - I hope that helps you understand a bit better of whats really going out there...
Too early, in fact Japan doesn't seem to agree with you. Toyota sells quite a lot of fuel cell cars and Japanese Gov. spends a lot to build stations. Korea, on the other hand, is actually lagging in terms of infrastructure although hydrogen cell car technology is known to be more advanced than Japanese. We'll see but I think it makes more sense than electric cars in many ways. The very down side of EV is its required time to recharge and people don't like that kind of inconvenience. Once production cost goes down to affordable level and stations are wide spread, I don't see any reason it will not take off. But EVs have just too many inconvenience to be everybody's car.
brown bobby what your generation is missing is the change in the mind set that comes with the new technology - you will only understand that once you make the jump and buy an EV....
The jump to EV requires tons of lithium and lithium disposal along with smart grids
nice episode Fullycharged. new things i learnt. and new thoughts... as an automobile engineer. i find it quite complicated. but perhaps it will find its place in the whole scheme of new age automobile infrastructure.
I am learning from the comments here. that its quite complicated actually. thanks drunken hobo
A hydrogen fool-cell!
More expensive to buy than a BEV, more expensive to fuel than a BEV and less efficient than a BEV.
The only positive is the fueling time,..... At the very few filling stations that actually exist.....
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are cool and all, but are not the future, in large scale at least (and I'm talking only about passanger cars). Pure EVs are the future, while hydrogen will remain on the side and be that edgy emo kid of cars.
Though that air cleaning thing is very cool..... the sad part is that it cannot drive on Mars, but could be useful in polluted cities.
9:50 - It's pissing all over the place!
16:09 - If it was a diesel bus, we would not hear anything, just *RARARARARARARA*
Of course, I'm talking about how they are right now, there is a big chance that they're going to get used in huge vehicles, like aeroplanes. (That could create a situation in which someone thinks that a bird peed on him when a plane flew above because it was a hydrogen plane :D)
Exactly. EV can do 300 miles with 100kWh of electricity, fuel cell vehicle can do 100 miles with the same amount of energy.
Evolt while I agree with you on all fronts, being an Leaf owner myself, there is one area that FCVs excel in where BEVs don’t and, at times, that’s practicality. Until battery charging tech gets to the point where it’s fully charging in minutes, regular gas, NGV, and FCV have fueling times at a practical point compared to BEV...more specifically on long haul trips. While I absolutely love the Tesla semi (it was in my town just yesterday), I think Nikola has the right idea with a hydrogen powered semi...and it gets over 1,000mi of range before needing to be refueled and refueling times are like diesel. Sure it’s less efficient than BEV but the practicality is there and, I think we can both agree, it’s waaaaaaay better than running diesel through a semi.
how cares it is a clean source of energy and it CLEANS THE AIR !!! it also makes its own electricity.
You missed out on a big advantage of fuel cells, doesn’t need nearly as much battery as EV’s which means more raw material available (not depleting the worlds supply as fast), also some of those materials are very unethically obtained in Africa, and I hear the pollution required to build an EV makes it almost obsolete as a fossil fuel saver
I've heard that the hydrogen tanks also require some rare materials, even rarer than those present in batteries.
A light summer rain sounds nice. Freezing rain in the winter, less so.
Now this water is really a drop in the bucket compared to other sources (snow melt etc.) but it should be considered. What, for example, do they do to keep the water from freezing in the tail pipe?
Hydrogen fuel cell is the future, the EV car lithium battery is too heavy and takes too many expensive minerals and metals to manufacture the battery while hydrogen fuel cell takes much less and also much lighter of the drive system.
The Hyundai Nexo has a 12 kWh lithium-ion battery pack, so it has batteries and all the ancillary equipment to store hydrogen, run the filter system for the air intake make the car weigh as much, if not slightly more than a battery electric vehicle.
I have Prius prime plug-in 8.2 KWh can only do 40 KM on EV mode, Tesla 3 has 75 KWh, that means Nexo overall uses only a fraction the size of the lithium-ion battery than Tesla 3 and can go over 2 times the distance than Tesla 3.
A 12-kWh-battery in a non-plug-in-car would be idiotic.
I googled shortly and found more credible 1.6 kWh and 1.56 kWh.
However, I agree: FCEV and BEV are similar in weight.
No big and heavy battery, but a lot of other heavy stuff.
Could you please provide a reference that confirms that a hydrogen fuel cell is lighter than a BEV vehicle?
Love this channel and makes me excited for the next 10-20 years where we'll be...
Lots of nerdy argument out there from hydrogen 'experts' who - for some reason, want it to be 'the future'.
Simple question from a non 'expert': how do we get(in the UK) from now, where hydrogen cars are v. expensive and there are almost literally no hydrogen fuel stations, to 'the future', where hydrogen cars are competitively priced and hydrogen fuel stations are readily accessible wherever you live?
Bear in mind hydrogen cars will be competing with battery electric vehicles which are already almost competitively priced, and which can be charged in numerous locations(crucially, at home).
To say that hydrogen is the future seems to be a massive leap of faith to put it mildly. To the unbiased observer(!) the race would seem to have been lost already...
And this doesn't even consider cheaper cars when the big manufacturers get on board, and any new or improved battery technologies which could increase range and further reduce prices...
So the simple answer to your simple question is it depends on Governments commitment to clean air and you need to stop thinking only about cars. Commercial vehicles are the most air-polluting individually (cars may be more collectively), and batteries are not a good solution for many of them because down-time is bad for commercial operators waiting for the vehicles to recharge, and battery weight limits the vehicle range. Both of these are solved by switching them to the hydrogen solution. Accepting this means that Hydrogen filling stations simply must be constructed anyway to supply them, even if many cars are currently adopting battery-only technology. Eventually the network of Hydrogen filling stations will make the choice between FCEV and BEV much easier for everyone, some will choose BEV because they don't do long distances and they can fill up at home, others will choose FCEV because their lifestyle demands the complete opposite i.e. regularly travelling long distances or can't charge at home. At the same time the price of the FC technology will reduce as volumes go up. This year's KPMG report estimates very nearly 25% each for BEV, FCEV, ICE and Hybrid by 2040. assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/nl/pdf/2018/sector/automotive/global-automotive-executive-survey-2018.pdf
Why does Japanese Gov. spends a lot of money building station? They are dumb? Why do you think Toyota spends a ton of money into hydrogen cell car RnD?
Great episode, like the idea of taking bad air and making it good, only concern is lack of infrastructure to back the car up
wait a minute... teslabjørn (youtube: Bjørn Nyland) just tested the Kia Niro pure eletric a few days ago... And winter in September!? in Korea?? Hydrogen has it's pros & cons, but pure EV is better and cheaper for the consumer. Just imagine the cost of airfilter changes while "cleansing the city air", or fuelcell replacemets... those fuelcells contains platina, wich is kind of rare and expensive...
This video was taken some months back when the Korea Olympics happened.
Fully Charged relased this video 7 months after they shoot.
@@powershin12 So they have many more videos in queue... good for us
@@dot7107 Yes I suppose.
It was shot February 20th, you can see the date in a shot of the screen in the car.
very useful insight into H2 cars. this looks a really solid product and very stylish! Hopefully it gets a solid following in Korea & Japan.
This video could have been done on planet Mars....
- No idea on performances of this car
- No idea on how much does it cost to fill the tank
- No idea on the price/availability of this car
- No idea on how to manage huge risks of driving/parking with an 'hydrogen bomb' in the trunk
Waste of time, waste of energy, waste of money.
Outstanding video with tons of information. Really explained a lot and made a good case for H2 cars and H2 infrastructure.
Are you sure you pronounce the city's name correctly in 15:34 and 16:29 ? ;P
Yep, Pyong-yang on the other coast and over the boarder. Easy mistake to make.
1) When we talk about the car cleaning the air as it moves (which I love) does this also mean potentially higher maintenance in terms of more regular air filter changes?
2) If I remember my chemistry correctly, hydrogen is a flammable gas, isn't it? In the event of a collision, is this better, worse, or equal in terms of risk of explosion?
Why not hydrogen for commercial! The pace of 'H' refueling stations will be really slow in comparison to 'EV' chargers!
EV for public The rate of charging facilities is getting better for 'EVs'
Did you mean "relatively fast"?
The Tesla Semi has shown one solution for large vehicles.
Split battery packs into 2 or 3 sections.
Connect each section to a fast charger.
3 Times the charge speed!
I LOVE the interior of this car!
15:32 he just said PyeongYang
I think he meant Pyeongchang
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyeongchang_County
Great show Bobbylew.
A couple of questions / comments on this (not criticisms). Did a quick google on hydrogen production - lots of new exciting ideas about how to create hydrogen through various thermochemical reactions but at the moment the main source is from natural gas which makes me not such a fan!
On the coach journey down the hill I was waiting for you to tell us how much MORE charge you had in the batteries from all that regen breaking on the way down!
I also want to know more about the cost and replacement lifecycle of these super air filters. Wouldn't it be nice if these were fitted to the back end of current ICE cars!!
At 9:18 you completely missed a massive solar farm outside!!
Whenever you feature a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in any of your videos, the majority of the comments are as toxic and horrible as diesel fuel. And how people are that narrow and hive minded in 2018 is ludicrous.
It's quite common knowledge as it is now that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not as efficient as battery electric vehicles in power generation or usage but with research and development and general refining it can be so much better.
For example, I see so many saying that it wastes energy transporting hydrogen in tankers but it's been proven that you can cut that slow wasteful part out by doing what the Shell garage did with the electrolyser on site and have it running on renewables. It can be done that way and it should, if the hydrogen comes from gas reforming our fossil fuels then it's pointless, you'd might aswell just use a petrol car.
Three of the biggest problems with current EVs is the battery materials like lithium are not abundant, and so many batteries are needed for each of those EVs so it's not sustainable.
Buyers of plug in EVs often forget how filthy the process is in the creation of their vehicles, people still use diesel diggers and earth movers for all those materials and you can't recycle all those batteries when they go bad so what's gonna happen to them then?
And third, the bad range and very slow charging of EVs is still awful. I'm not basing my life around the charging of a vehicle, I want the vehicle to base around my life. If you ask any owner of current EVs how long it takes to charge if you go for a long journey, they'll say it usually takes around half hour ~ forty minutes "rapid" charging, enough time to go to the toilet and have a coffee. It sounds like they're having trouble going to the toilet and need to seriously go and see their doctor and they must love cold coffee.
It's just bonkers that people are so accepting of this lifestyle. At least hydrogen got that part won because it takes about the same amount of time as petrol vehicle to refill, but again, the infrastructure is lacking so badly at the moment, especially in the UK.
Whatever happens I the future, anything's better than disgusting filth diesel.
I really enjoyed this video, I didn't know much about the Nexo. It's really nice to more hydrogen fuel cell news, thanks 👍✌
Johny40Se7en well said. Many forget or ignore the fact that the large scale production of lithium ion batteries is not sustainable in the long term. In addition the mining and production process and cost is hardly mentioned. Companies like Hyundai, Toyota and Honda continue to explore hydrogen fuel cell technology because they realize technology changes rapidly and that research and development moves plausible ideas forward. What was true 5 years ago may have completely changed simply because technology has transformed the landscape. Anyone who claims to have all the answers related to the future of fuel cell technology today is nearsighted at best. Fuel cell technology is a viable option in addition to improving battery technology. Remember there was a time when educated men couldn’t imagine we could master flight or ever travel to the moon
I own a 130 Mile range Toyota RAV4 BEV. The majority of times I use a fast charger (once a month) are for partial charges, i.e. 10 min, to get me home. A 150 mile range BEV is convenient for most drivers. For some drivers, current 300 mile range BEVs are convenient. And then for the very small group of long distance road warriors, they probably need to wait for the next gen (solid state) BEVs with 600 mile range and 800 volt charging to satisfy their ill-perceived needs, with a plug-in hybrid filling their wait time.
There are several counter-arguments I'd raise here. In terms of range and charging, ranges are increasing and charge times are decreasing, and that's only going to continue over time. In terms of batteries, we're using Li-Ion because that's the best choice *right now*, but there are other technologies *really* close to production viability that are far cleaner *and* have improved range and charge times (and by the way, Hydrogen fuel cells aren't exactly free of rare-earth minerals and nasty substances). This second point leads to infrastructure: Any battery will charge using an electrical source, so developing an infrastructure for electrical charging allows for a variety of new technologies to appear over time. An infrastructure based on hydrogen ties us into hydrogen and is as much a dead end as our reliance on fossil fuels is now. BEVs can also be charged anywhere, at home, at work, while shopping, etc., and BEV charging therefore has the capability to develop a far wider charging network than hydrogen fuelling ever will.
I think Hydrogen fuel cells are amazing, but they've come to the race 20 years too late and the fuelling infrastructure problem is huge. Even with vast sums and a really dedicated developer, it'll take decades for Hydrogen to have any reasonable fuelling coverage of even the mainland UK. As of right now, September 2018, there are FOURTEEN Hydrogen filling stations in the UK, while there are 6200 BEV points, 385 added in the last *month* alone. BEV charging may currently be slow, but at least you can do it anywhere there's an appropriate mains socket. It'd be impossible to visit Scotland in a Hydrogen car right now (there's one station in Aberdeen and the next one to the South is Rotherham), but you could visit in a BEV, even a remote cottage, as long as it has a mains connection.
In summary, yes, right now Hydrogen is possibly cleaner than using Li-Ion batteries, but the BEV technology isn't standing still and there's no point developing a dead-end fuelling infrastructure that'll take 20 years to complete, only to find that in 5 years time we're no longer using Li-Ion and ranges and charge times have effectively ended any perceived problem.
As another commentor has said, it's entirely possibly, likely even, that Hydrogen is a good solution for PSVs operating in a city, or for trucks or other heavy machinery, but it really doesn't make sense for private cars.
@@cabruin98 I have not seen any evidence to show that Lithium mining is unsustainable with increasing battery demand.
Hydrogen is too corrosive, to be practical you have to coat all of the surfaces that come into contact with the fuel with GOLD, the high cost is why Honda will only lease them, they want their gold back.
Simply unbelievable! The tech to clean the air while generating electricity with zero emissions and producing water that could be captured and used elsewhere!? All in a package with killer looks and colors!? Sign me up!!! I truly think this is the future of cars, electric and fuel cell all powered by each other 😀 Except the US won't let it happen....
Coming Soon: Mr Fusion, Home Energy Reactor
Where we're going, we don't need roads!
Robert and Jonny, you are my favorite show in the web right now, hope you get a multi-million contract from BBC. Cheerz....
I fully AGREE with last comment. Hydrogen fuel is wast of time for mass market.oh and that wasted water at back of tall pip would be dangerous in winter when it freeezes over on mass if lots trucks cars buses used it.Ice skatting on roads anybody
I really want to agree with you because I share your sentiment, but I don't think you're factually correct. For one thing, gasoline and diesel engines already emit around the same amount of water (hydrocarbon + oxygen = water + carbon dioxide), and for another, the amount of water coming out of a fuel cell in a passenger vehicle isn't enough to form sheets of ice. And your spellchecker is broken.
I never thought that water emissions might be a problem. But when I saw this small trickle of water running out of the tailpipe I realized that if there were more FCEVs on the roads it would create a real trouble in northern countries in winter.
Hydrogen has NO future for the average customer.
I think the main thing is, that hardly anybody knows how Hydrogen is produced.
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
@@BigManator and just using excess renewables... How renewable is that? Soon there will be solar/battery parks in every village. No need to waste not if it on heat in conversion and transport.
@@Cloxxki yeah you are right. excess renewable energy could never cover the demand even slightly. If there was ever so much excess energy, only because someone has built way too many power plants, making these not really excess anymore.
yutuniopati . Sure. Water is so last century. We don’t need water anymore ! What are the tree’s thinking taking the Hydrogen out of water and leaving us to breathe their waste Oxygen ? ! Hydrogen is far more abundant than Lithium. It is the ULTIMATE fuel. Clean, limitless and flexible.
Great show Robert and exciting to see a hydrogen fuel cell bus at the end!
Hyundai really seem to have all bases covered!
I like the idea of saving energy produced from renewables in the summer (Like German solar) to use in the winter.
I just had to stop at 8 minutes Bobby, any further review of hydrogen powered cars is a dead dog and a waste of everyones time. you have said it explicitly yourself in your previous videos that a pure electric vehicle means that you can generate your own energy at home and free you from the fossil fuel industry. The only reason hydrogen fuel cells are being pushed into the consumer space is to keep the fossil fuel industry plugged into your car. look at the complexity of the technology in that car the engine / fuel cell structure right there means you are back into the Enormous cost and servicing cycle of complex machinery that is why it is completely insane why a single person would never purchase such a car. Total and crazy waste of time for the consumer, business might be a tiny bit of a different story but as the Tesla semi is showing probably not. further evidence for the futility of hydrogen is the fact that one has to have the fuel stations. recently in Norway I believe at least one provider is throwing in the towel and giving up on installing hydrogen fuel stations that is the real sign of hydrogen at the end of life before it even begins. The hydrogen fool cell is less of a joke than it really appears. If we wanted to portray a more extreme example of its futility we might liken it a little bit to the Hinkley C Power Station endeavours?
Great video production. I'm also more excited about FC cars now.
The fact that it purifies the air as it runs is rad! I think there is a role for this technology along with other type of electric drives. Obviously its going to take time. But if energy management technology becomes more ubiquitous using Hydrogen as a storage mechanism, this technology will definitely gain traction.
Great videos people, keep making these high quality reviews!
Great episode and fantastically shot! Always love watching these episodes - very inspiring!
Hey Robert! I'd love to see more videos on electrification of mass transit! Electric buses, new tech in electric trains, etc.
Thank you for this video, i think our future is in hydrogen
Great episode guys! You've become my favorite channel on YT hands down.
Surprised to hear that Korea only have 4 hydrogen stations to refill the car - here in Denmark we've got 10 already!
I'm looking very much forward to the NEXO being launched here in Denmark in spring of 2019, could very well be my next car :)
Thanks for a great video!
Thanks once again for another great FC episode. Please give us more! Thanks! We all need to have an honest, open talk about the pros and cons of Hydrogen vs. Batteries as energy storage devices. How about a Fully Charged debate? (Live?)...
Fake surprise ....love it. Another high class video good job
Awesome car, I hope it will be available as soon as possible in Europe
For Australia these types of cars will do very well. With the vast distances electric vehicles can't compete as you have to spend 40-60 mins to recharge between our state capital cities.
The witty British humor that you dont get in any car reviews..!!!
Great video as always..☺️
Actually electric car has limitation during winter and summer when you need heater or conditioner, and when its cold you have problem with battery. Not only that hydro car and elec car is not so different. Hyundai can switch to elec car when they just replace fuel to battery because they are mostly same principle.
Speaking of Fuel Cell, have you heard how the Bloombox from Bloom Energy is doing. They make a large fuel cell for power usage. Bloom Energy was supposed to come out with a residential version. It was supposed to be a game changer! Wonder how they are progressing with the Residential version.
Tech like this gets my adrenaline pumping. It might not be perfect. It might not be cheap. But the fact that today we have a production fuel cell vehicle on the road (remember 10 or 20 years ago people compared hydrogen based cars with nuclear weapons) is exciting and encouraging.
Give the companies a few more years and I can guarantee we will have cars that are affordable, fuel that is affordable and overall running costs are in line with what we get with gasoline powered cars.
For our children. For our planet.
Nolin Chitnis Still EV’s will remain three times cheaper to drive
4:58 "and then what comes out"...is a dirty, high density filter, that needs to be changed very often probably, since it's efectiveness is so high. Let's not forget, it ain't magic...