How do you know when you are holding the double hollow ground knife at the correct angle while sharpening on the stone? and also on the steel afterwards?
If a knife is really, really blunt, is it a case of just keeping at it? I just spent half an hour trying to sharpen my knife and it still feels like there is no edge on it. :(
Great question! Yes it does work (speaking from experience) but for best results I recommend sharpening with a less aggressive burr (similar angles in both directions, instead of raising the angle significantly) and sharpening it opposite-handedly than you would for regular scraping purposes. It will work either way, but with an opposite-handed burr it will catch better when doing the tip bevel. Changing the handedness of the burr only really works with DHG knives as the geometry of Beveled knives limits you from doing so.
Unless you're ambidextrous, the best way to sharpen opposite-handedly is just to follow the steps of the process but starting with the side facing you when holding the knife , instead of starting with the side facing away from you. Then you can adjust the angles accordingly for the burr you want.
I'm on of those hardcore knife sharpeners you were talking about and just want to expand my offering for people. I got some questions about the burr you're forming. How heavy of a burr are you forming? Are you stopping as soon as one forms or going beyond that? Does the angle actually matter or are you solely aiming for a thin blade with a consistent burr? This looks like a mix between straight razor sharpening and scraper sharpening to me. You also mentioned designing the beveled knife for ease of sharpening. Are the flats similar to a yanagiba knife with a hollow back? Also, those shapton stone should not be soaked. They are magnesium based and will break down. They're called splash and go stones because you just need to splash them
Hi! Thanks for checking out the video. As far as the burr goes, when sharpening a knife for the specific function of reed-making for double reed instruments, we typically use a heavier burr than one would see in other knife sharpening applications, going slightly beyond the point at which the burr first forms (because of the scraping method and how it is different from typical knife/chisel usage). As you noted, a thin blade with a consistent burr is the most important. The reason we didn't specify a specific angle for the burr is because you get into a grey area of personal preference for how you want the knife to feel when scraping, and the biggest variable for that on a reed knife would be the burr's angle. A sharper angle to the center axis on a knife would create a knife that feels more aggressive when scraping, and vice-versa. There is definitely a lot of room to expand on the topic (especially in a reed maker finding the best angle burr that works for them) which we are considering covering in a future video. Regarding the Beveled knife design - our knife is a true flat-back more akin to a chisel than incorporating the hollow-back Urasuki style that you are referring to. This is typical of most beveled reed knives that are specific to this application. Great question! There are definitely a lot of benefits to the Urasuki/hollow-back design, but that particular design is not common in reed-making and it could potentially make things more complicated, especially for beginner knife sharpeners. With that said, one could choose to raise the angle on the flat side of our knife to effectively create a small version of an asymmetrical flat/compound bevel in the knife's edge. Good note on the controversial Shapton stone soaking issue - as I mentioned in the video, the official recommendation (from Shapton) is that they be soaked prior to their first use, but you don't need to soak them every time. I should have touched on that more in the video/been more clear. In their words: "No, Shapton stones do not need to be soaked except the very first time after purchase. We do recommend that on first use, you pre-soak the stone in water for five to six minutes to secure even smoother sharpening." www.shapton.co.jp/en/faq/ Thanks for the great questions and for stopping by! Hope you enjoyed the video.
Thank you for the very detailed reply. This is very much like sharpening a card scraper for finish work then. Including the burr angle and aggressiveness of the scrape; and burnishing with the steel at the end. I can also see how finer stones suffer more from diminishing returns than in normal knife sharpening. I only mentioned the soaking thing cause I learned it the hard way. I was used to leaving stones in water while I worked with others.
This video is incredibly helpful! I've been looking for some in-depth explanation like this for a while! Thank you so much :D - from a curious oboist
I was just looking this video up for a student and noticed you didn't put your LC Sharpening stones in the video description, they look great!
How do you know when you are holding the double hollow ground knife at the correct angle while sharpening on the stone? and also on the steel afterwards?
If a knife is really, really blunt, is it a case of just keeping at it? I just spent half an hour trying to sharpen my knife and it still feels like there is no edge on it. :(
Does the whetstone will give the same results as Diamond stone?
Will this technique work for a knife used for the Kamins/Herzberg tip beveling technique?
Great question! Yes it does work (speaking from experience) but for best results I recommend sharpening with a less aggressive burr (similar angles in both directions, instead of raising the angle significantly) and sharpening it opposite-handedly than you would for regular scraping purposes. It will work either way, but with an opposite-handed burr it will catch better when doing the tip bevel. Changing the handedness of the burr only really works with DHG knives as the geometry of Beveled knives limits you from doing so.
Unless you're ambidextrous, the best way to sharpen opposite-handedly is just to follow the steps of the process but starting with the side facing you when holding the knife , instead of starting with the side facing away from you. Then you can adjust the angles accordingly for the burr you want.
I'm on of those hardcore knife sharpeners you were talking about and just want to expand my offering for people. I got some questions about the burr you're forming. How heavy of a burr are you forming? Are you stopping as soon as one forms or going beyond that? Does the angle actually matter or are you solely aiming for a thin blade with a consistent burr? This looks like a mix between straight razor sharpening and scraper sharpening to me.
You also mentioned designing the beveled knife for ease of sharpening. Are the flats similar to a yanagiba knife with a hollow back?
Also, those shapton stone should not be soaked. They are magnesium based and will break down. They're called splash and go stones because you just need to splash them
Hi! Thanks for checking out the video. As far as the burr goes, when sharpening a knife for the specific function of reed-making for double reed instruments, we typically use a heavier burr than one would see in other knife sharpening applications, going slightly beyond the point at which the burr first forms (because of the scraping method and how it is different from typical knife/chisel usage). As you noted, a thin blade with a consistent burr is the most important. The reason we didn't specify a specific angle for the burr is because you get into a grey area of personal preference for how you want the knife to feel when scraping, and the biggest variable for that on a reed knife would be the burr's angle. A sharper angle to the center axis on a knife would create a knife that feels more aggressive when scraping, and vice-versa. There is definitely a lot of room to expand on the topic (especially in a reed maker finding the best angle burr that works for them) which we are considering covering in a future video.
Regarding the Beveled knife design - our knife is a true flat-back more akin to a chisel than incorporating the hollow-back Urasuki style that you are referring to. This is typical of most beveled reed knives that are specific to this application. Great question! There are definitely a lot of benefits to the Urasuki/hollow-back design, but that particular design is not common in reed-making and it could potentially make things more complicated, especially for beginner knife sharpeners. With that said, one could choose to raise the angle on the flat side of our knife to effectively create a small version of an asymmetrical flat/compound bevel in the knife's edge.
Good note on the controversial Shapton stone soaking issue - as I mentioned in the video, the official recommendation (from Shapton) is that they be soaked prior to their first use, but you don't need to soak them every time. I should have touched on that more in the video/been more clear. In their words: "No, Shapton stones do not need to be soaked except the very first time after purchase. We do recommend that on first use, you pre-soak the stone in water for five to six minutes to secure even smoother sharpening." www.shapton.co.jp/en/faq/
Thanks for the great questions and for stopping by! Hope you enjoyed the video.
Thank you for the very detailed reply. This is very much like sharpening a card scraper for finish work then. Including the burr angle and aggressiveness of the scrape; and burnishing with the steel at the end. I can also see how finer stones suffer more from diminishing returns than in normal knife sharpening.
I only mentioned the soaking thing cause I learned it the hard way. I was used to leaving stones in water while I worked with others.