Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed the video! As I was making it, I reflected on the generally passive role of the Elves during the Third Age, and indeed this theory assumes that Gil-galad would have been active and not passive. It’s possible he could have survived and not be this active, but that would not have changed the story much, and it was more interesting to consider Gil-galad at his greatest power and strategic/active mindset going into the Third Age. This may have allowed for certain conveniences, as there are in any story, but I do hope you all enjoyed it like I did!
I believe Gil-Galad would take up Dol Guldur spot to protect the north from the threat East. Angmar would be weak against counterattacks from the south.
Yep imagine how much better it would have been to have a high king of the Noldor leading elves instead of pacifist wussy elrond who had no fight in him.
The Elves are my favourite people so I lov the idea that under the high kingship of GilGalad they finally enjoyed a period of prosperity and relative peace in the Third Age before leaving Middle Earth. In the original timeline they experienced only war, destruction, and sorrow
They were given the chance to join the Valar. Some chose to not make the journey. Some journeyed west, then returned for vengeance. Our voices at have consequences and we often have only ourselves to blame for our woe. I see this as the lesson that the elves can teach us. "When Angel's bacon, willfully refusing may not be the best idea. Vengeance is always a rocky road." Pity the elves, yes, but understanding their folly seems useful. We share much in common with Tolkien's elves.
@@freddaniel5099 That's ridiculous. The children of the Noldor didn't choose to rebel, and the children of the Sindhar and Nondor didn't choose to be born in Middle Earth. They're most of who was left in the Third Age.
Saruman remaining in Middle-earth to try and become the next dark lord is a fascinating idea. If he still tried to create his empire from Isengard though, I don't think he'd be able to conquer much outside of Rohan, the strength of men and lack of resources would be too much to overcome. Of course, Saruman doesn't have to stay in Isengard. Maybe he starts in the remains of Mordor after Sauron's defeat, or goes even further east to forge his empire. Lots of possibilities.
Idk, he was able to make a sizable army in just a few weeks. If he kept that industrial power and expanded it, I could see Isengard becoming a much greater power, so long as he doesn’t play his hand too quickly and makes sure to weaken the enemy leadership like he did with theoden
@@steelrexer1062 y’all are forgetting Isengard is weak because of its neighbour to the north east, FANGORN!!!! Don’t mess with Ents. Saruman didn’t realize the power of the ents and so he paid for it.
He was a lot like Sauron in that he was a Maia of Aule - the Vala of Smithing (among other things), and it's fairly explicitly implied (in the books) that he was dabbling in the creation of his own rings of power after (or while) his search for Sauron's ring failed. So it's very plausible to me that he might have succeeded for a while if he had survived and his chief opponents were departed.
No, I think the Ring would have corrupted Rivendell. What did Gandalf say? "Were it buried beneath the roots of Mindolluin, still it would burn your mind away, as the darkness grows, and the yet worse things follow that soon shall come upon us."
Honestly that's what I'd think, in this timeline the elves have had it for several millenia. I think it'd be more realistic to have the white council slowly fracture as they met increasingly often in Rivendell. Over thousands of years, I'm pretty sure at least Elrond or Galadriel would be swayed by the ring possibly even Gil-galad himself. He may be cool and powerful but I don't know how well he'd do against the ring after 1000's of years (plus it'd low-key be more interesting that way)
I really think Gil-Galad would have had more moral authority to tell Isildur to destroy the ring right after he had cut it from Sauron's hand. It might have been difficult, but in the end the ring would have been destroyed when it should have been. Just my two cents.
The thing is: The way Tolkien wrote it, it seems nobody could bear the ring and destroy it willingly. In a way, a built-in safeguard. This is why Sauron never even considered the idea that his enemies were out to destroy the One Ring; He knew they couldn't do it. That is why the way it happened was the only way possible.
@@michaelt.5672 That's what I wanted to say. I'm not sure if it is only a theory or if it actually is hinted on in the text but I think heard somewhere that Eru himself intervened in the end by tripping Gollum so the ring would be destroyed and that otherwise indeed no on would be able to destroy the ring willingly.
@@resathe6760 Eru's direct involvement is never hinted at to my knownledge. That would make it a direct divine intervention / deus ex machina. Tolkien himself coined a somewhat different concept, the "eucatastrophe" (i.e. the inverse of a catastrophe, a sudden and unexpected turn of the story for the better). The difference being, to my understanding, that Tolkien saw the eucatastrophe as a cosmic consequence of small acts of good, not nessecarily involving supernatural forces. In the case of the final showdown at mount doom, Frodo's own previous mercy towards Gollum was a key factor in the destruction of the ring (among, of course, MANY others), even though nobody could have foreseen the outcome of that. If you will, it is a narrative application of the idea of "be good for goodness sake, and good consequences will follow, even if they are outside of what you can percieve". And since Eru Illuvatar created his world in a manner where even the greatest evil would ultimately only serve his ends, I am certain that he saw to it that this world would have good deeds lead to greater ends, even without his own direct intervention.
I’m in the middle of reading the Silmarillion for the third time and I have two suggestions I’d be very interested in hearing as a “what if”. What if Feanor recovered from his mortal wounds by the balrogs and survived to remain high king of the Noldor? And what if King Thingol surrendered the Silmaril when Melian first urged him to?
Damn, it would be freaking epic if Feanor survived back then. I feel there would be some badass wars going all over the Beleriand though. A good question indeed!
That would have been a disaster. Feanor would have plunged the free people of middle earth into wars with each other, he was far too dangerous, self-centered, inconsiderate... dude HAD to die
Remember this one thing, YOU built this community. Never forget that! For my part, i must say thankyou, thank you for putting a light in my heart with your videos, for the smal light of hope in my life that is currently filled with darkness. Thank you for telling me the tales you do, thank you for uploading videos of the kind you do! In darkness you give hope.
Love this style of content! You should totally make “What if Morgoth won the war of wrath?”!!!! I have thought about this all the time, and would love to see a video on it!
@@bauglir2462 nan dungortheb would end up being the entirety of arda, she'd probably try to consume everything she comes across. I'm sure her intentions are very similar to Morgoth, perhaps even darker
Even if he won and killed many major generals of the Host of Valinor (eg. Eonwe, Finarfin, Ingwion), I doubt he could completely flush out the remaining resistance in Middle-earth like Gil-Galad and the Sons of Feanor. At any rate, the War of Wrath was still only a fraction of the power of Valinor. If Eonwe lost, the Valar would just be forced to come themselves.
Very well thought out theory. I really enjoyed how you brought up the slothfulness of elves and I like how you made Gil-Galad descended from Fingolfin. Many overlook or change this with the theories. Ty for being a true Tolkien loremaster. Appreciate the content.
I was waiting for Saruman to pull some sick trick right at the end, a little switch and duplicity with the one ring. I could imagine your story being an interesting alternate universe setting for a video game
Aeglos would be the chief weapon Sauron would fear. Gil-Galad would have a strong kingdom somewhere. Thandruil would listen to the call of his High King and help more in Hobbit and the War.
I might have missed it, but how would Gandalf notice Bilbo’s resilience towards the effects of the one ring during the quest of Erebor, if the one ring is kept in Rivendell?
This was a nice addition to the week, another @Men of the West Video...Thanks, Mellon!!! I wished you have done some Years of the Trees through to the Second age Theories and now it's started because boy I would love to see how the Future of Arda Changing!!! Thanks, Mellon for a great 2nd Age Fan Theory, Until Minas Tirith *In the 3rd Age* Marion Baggins Out!!!
lol I love it whenever one of these theories turns into Bilbo taking the Ring instead. Usually accompanied by the white council. So funny thinking about our singular little guy fresh off of his first adventure, grieving his friends dying, getting whisked away by angels and elves to march all the way to Mordor as they guard him.
One of the most exciting aspects of these videos is that they may be used as a data set in a simulation 20-30 years from now. So if someone wants to alter history in their middle earth simulation, they will have access to this information to reference. Great work, as always.
I've always assumed that Elrond *did* attempt a search: but it was in vain because the Ring did not wish to be found by them. Or rather Sauron did not wish them to find it. Remember: the Rings of Power can be hidden from those that the bearer does not wish to see them. Sadly, I don't think there was any realistic possibility of Gilgalad surviving fighting Sauron. He was too young, with too little power. The only way I can see this potentially working, is if Glórfindel had made it to where Gilgalad was fighting and used his power to protect the King. Gilgalad knew when he charged Sauron that he wasn't going to come out of the fight alive: but it would be worthwhile to buy Isildur time. He had full confidence that those he left behind could and would defeat Sauron for good, one way or another. Even if some of those people didn't realize they had the power and the skills required: Gilgalad's best quality was that he saw the potential in others and worked to bring it out. He sacrificed himself because he knew his work was done. The woodland realm was established, and Thranduil would grow into a King to rival Thingol. Elrond was set on the path towards growing to rival his great ancestors (don't mistake secrecy for passivity: If you read between the lines it becomes pretty evident that Elrond and Galadriel were very active throughout the Third Age and orchestrated the entire War of the Ring). If Gilgalad hadn't died during the Last Alliance, he would have taken ship soon after is my feeling. His protégés were ready to come into their own, and his continued presence would only hamper them.
Interesting theory, and well-laid out as ever. However, I have noticed a potential flaw. Once the Ring is discovered in the Anduin, how would it be brought back to Rivendell if it required a less-corruptible Hobbit to later carry it to Mordor? Surely an Elf would have to bear it back to Rivendell, and at that point, would he or she have been able to release it to a safe location there? (i.e. so that no-one actually held it, and would it truly remain unheld?) But if they could, for argument's sake, then the decision to bear it back to Rivendell was a mistake. Sauron had *just* been defeated a short while before - now would be the right time to go back to Mordor with the intention of destroying the Ring, especially since Gil-Galad had already reflected that Isildur should have done so. With Sauron out of the picture and probably the Nazgul and the orcs in hiding, it would have been an easier path than waiting for Sauron to form again and having to defeat his armies, and it would not have allowed others (looking at Saruman in particular) so much time to be corrupted by it. It is true, they probably would not have known about the Hobbits as ideal Ringbearers, but perhaps they could have set up a relay-system of Ringbearers to be carrying it for a short period of time before handing it to the next, each handover supervised and enforced (if necessary) by the White Council who would not bear the Ring themselves, and the former Ringbearers would then be sent back home. At all times the Ringbearers and Ring would be under guard. By limiting this exposure, they might have avoided the more deeper addiction and corruption of the Ring. How quickly would a non-Hobbit fall to the power of the Ring? It's hard to say. Smeagol of course was a Hobbit too and fell instantly; however Sam carried it for a short time and did not have any particular difficulty giving it back to Frodo. It would be risky to use Men, but Elves...or perhaps even Dwarves? Dwarves did not fall to the Seven in the same way that Men fell to the Nine, so that might be a thought re: potentially greater resistance to corruption, although trust between Dwarves and Elves would have been a difficult issue.
Eh. We don't really know. Since elves never even try it. Probably fearing a permanent scarring in there souls, but we know that with humans it has a hold on you instantly. Iseldur for instance was instantly hooked by the ring ince he picked it up, but he was very virtuous so he wasn't evil. Even though the ring had a hold on him. Which is why he wanted to bring it to Riverdall as he began to have doubts about it. In short it's corruption seems instant but it takes some time to get you to be full evil all the time.
I think the ring would have corrupted the elves of Rivendell like it did Gollum in the cave. However, they would have lost Rivendell completely vs the canon timeline where Rivendell stood strong. Also, an elf leader might have become a new dark lord, like we saw with Galadriel when tempted with the ring. Middle earth would have fallen in my opinion.
Hmm i have a theory - Elrond, Galadriel, after battle and defeat of Sauron, as you said, they must've been surely aware that One Ring left "lost" is sure dangerous but they were not eager to find it as they then would have to destoy it and with that their Elven Rings would lose power. Maybe they realized that with One Ring "conveniently" lost beyond finding (surely carried to the ocean and lost forever) they can freely use powers of their Elven Rings to rebuild their kingdoms, maybe vanity and temptation to use of this power to rebuild from losses sustained during War seemed "fair" to them. Its funny to think what would happen if One Ring was indeed carried to the ocean - would Sauron win then in the end? or maybe he'd never be able to regain his form with Ring so far from "his area of influence".
You make an extremely good point! The Three Elven Rings were made for preserving the dearly held lifestyle and culture reminiscent of the power and glory (and pride) of the Noldors' lost kingdoms in Beleriand, and possibly even the memory of things going all the way back to their prior home in Aman. This was a legacy in Middle Earth which the Noldor at best lovingly cherished, and at worst, deeply coveted. And given this motivation, it wouldn't be surprising if the Noldor had fooled themselves into believing that The One Ring really had been lost forever and they could continue using the Three to maintain their blessed existence in Middle Earth on their own terms, indefinitely. In the context of your theory above, the fact that the Three existed at all was simultaneously a huge blessing and, far more subtly, a self-inflicted curse for the Elves which Sauron could use, given he knew what would motivate and influence the leaders of the Noldor - and more than just about anything else, he was masterful at exploiting such motivations to his own ends.
@@moistmike4150 what i dont understand tho is how existence of the One was sustaining power of 3. Isnt it said that Sauron never touched them? I guess because of that he couldnt control wearers directly but still why there is a connection in power between those and One.
@@adamhenry3928 Even though Sauron didn’t make them, Celebrimbor likely used the same power sources to make them (probably Sauron himself) so he could influence them somewhat.
I've asked this of another channel and they seem to ignore it, it's a what-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
I like the idea and will definitely consider making that video in the future! It would be interesting to see what further guidance Gandalf would have for Frodo, but at the cost of his greater power as the White Rider.
Fun theory and I give you credit for taking it on. I think you glossed over a few things too easily or quickly during the adventure of Bilbo and Thorin's company that without the ring would have been pretty problematic, but credit to giving it a go!
If Gil-gilad had recovered the One Ring and brought it to Rivendell, he would have been corrupted. As a king, accustomed to wield power and to command, he would be more vulnerable to the One Ring, not less. Any of Gil-gilad's friends who would try to stop him would be destroyed by the forces of the corrupted king. Meanwhile, Sauron would hide . . . and watch . . . and wait.
"By my life or death, I will protect you" Oh man if he survived.....we'd basically have two Elronds running around, which would b overkill in the wisdom department but its middle earth so it would get a pass. But would he be more likely to use his Elven ring more overtly than Elrond did? 🤔 Most likely not but still fun to think about.........the council of Gil Galad.........just got chills haha
The major issue with immortality is that it takes away our natural urge to leave behind a living legacy of our existence (that is, descendants). There’s no hurry as well. Gil-Galad’s realm could have survived even after his death, had he had left an heir. Why would he bother? Even if died, he’d be reembodied in Valinor sooner or later and his subjects always had the option of going there. Elves could never linger in Middle-earth.
I love these what if vids! Thank you for another great vid. A fan fiction caught my attention recently, The Undecided Title of Sara Miller which is a Hobbit retelling. Already the changes to the timeline will surely have a significant effect on the Lord of the Rings timeline. I love the storytelling and seeing how small elements, weaved together, have such an impact. 😊
I strongly disagree, my friend that Gil-Galad would find the One Ring, or that he and Elrond would hold it in Rivendell without it corrupting them or someone else, tbh I could see it escaping Gil-Galad's grasp. With that said, Arnor might survive I agree with that, as Gil-Galad's kingdom would help it to resist the Witch-King. Gondor would still be in the same weakened position, just before Elessar assumes the kingship there also. Over-all the result would be likely similar to how you describe it, except with Frodo and his friends participating in the War of the One Ring still.
If Gil-Galad was still king, Arathorn would be King of both Arnor and Gondor. If Saruman doesn't turn evil, Arnor, Rohan, and Gondor would be strong enough to March on Mordor. Lots of ifs but supporting men in the third age changes alot.
I like your well presented theory. I wonder, though, how the doom of Mandos on the Noldor "the Dispossessed" would have tripped up Gil-galad for surely it would have marred with treachery what the High King had "....begun well."
Which is bs because in the book Theoden was willing to give Grima second chance. And Theoden let him go. In the movies, lot of stuff is attributed to Aragorn, which were in reality done by Theoden.
Great theory, but I disagree at one point. If Smeagol hadn't have found the Ring, Bilbo would have died in the depths of the caves of the Misty Mountains. And if not there, then the Quest for Erebor would have failed in the Elvenking's Halls. Or when Smaug caught Bilbo in the Lonely Mountain. The One Ring was central to Bilbo's success, which is sort of an unintended irony (at least at the time) of The Hobbit. Gandalf would never have noted Bilbo's resiliance to the Ring, Bilbo probably would have died, and the Ring would have remained in Rivendell until Saruman could figure out a way to get his hands on it. From there, who knows what would have happened. I think Eru Illuvatar, in his immeasureable subtlety, meant for Smeagol and Bilbo to find the Ring, and for that to happen, perhaps Gil-Galad had to die.
Having Saruman stay behind to make a new ring and probably rise as the 3rd dark lord is really interesting. I imagine another war happening and Gil-Galad returning with a host from Valinor to fight, Earendil style. Now I need to hear a part 2 of this awesome what if!
This seems to me to exaggerate the importance of the One Ring in the minds of the Elves of that period. Sauron had been defeated twice even when he possessed the Ring. There was no strong reason to believe it was imperative to find it.
This is an interesting theory although I believe it wouldn't have made any difference if gilgalad survived and remained as high king of the noldor because after the last battle very few noldor remained so in the end nothing much would have changed in my opinion.
No. Gil-Galad would have destroyed the ring outright. So would Elendil.. They would just took Sauron's corpse and drop it into the fires of mount Doom. Ring and all. It was the tragedy of witnessing the death of both great heroes of elves and men, that actually made Isildur susceptible to the temptation in the first place. And one of those heroes was his own father, which made the temptation a ten times worse. At any case, this is just as far as theory goes. Not destroying the One ring that day was a crucible part of the music of Ainur.
It could be still more interesting to pick up with the early beginning of the 4th age with Saruman attempting to forge his own ring of power. I think there would be a mind control element to that ring since Saruman was known for his commanding voice and leadership ability. In the meantime, Arathorn II would take up the mantle of the High King, and assume the name Elesser, elf friend, in honor of his compatriots in the final battle. In due time he and his wife Gilraen (who does NOT die early in this timeline) would have a son and heir Aragorn, who in time would take the throne and be known as Elamrun, the rising star or the morning star. He would grow up a very different person than he did in the main timeline, a crown prince of the blood, raised in the palace of Anuminas. However, this would not make him soft or weak or entitled. Rather he would have become an academic and an administrator rather than a ranger of the wilderness. He studied the history and knowledge of the human kingdoms and their ancestors in Numenor well, marking their steps and missteps, victories and defeats, successes and failures. It was thought that he would lead the human kingdoms into, if not an unlimited future of peace, then at least a long time of peace and prosperity. In time he married Sariel, princess of one of the many noble houses, after a relatively conventional courtship and betrothal, without the long drama of his attempt to win Arwen, who had departed with her father. After they had a son, also here named Eldarion, it seemed their happiness was complete. Ah, but no sooner did Elamrun accept the scepter from his father (for in these kingdoms as in Numenor they followed the ancient custom of the king passing on the scepter while still hale) than Saruman chose to use the new ring he had forged to make his move. The time had come for him to take up his ancestors sword and prove that he could be as great in war as his father had been and as he had hoped to be in peace. Would he be able to do it, and who would be his allies in this new struggle?
I am not sure about the timeline, but a little delay might have brought them all together. However, this delay might end up costing the entire mission, due to how narrow the success was (the battle at the black gate occurring at the same time Frodo and Sam reached the cracks of doom). Its a lot to think about.
I believe that if they delayed their departure by one day, Gwaihir would have found Gandalf and brought him to Lothlórien one day later, making sure they would not meet. After all, this timing was probably the work of Eru Ilúvatar.
Sauron, with Gilgalad still in action, may have had success in summoning the balrog, Durin's Bane from Moria to guard the door at Mt Doom. I would then expect Sauron had seen the destruction of the ring as a real possibility that needed the utmost attention. And Smaug working in collaboration with Sauron, on the battlefield with the witching. May certainly have been a event if the Lad had not gone to the halls.
Here's a question for you. What if the One Ring had been found after Gladden Fields, given to the elves and then sent across to the Undying Lands. Could Sauron have ever possibly retrieved it from there??
As I recall this option gets discussed in the book, and ruled out as the Valar would not receive the Ring. Presumably a ship carrying it would be unable to find the Straight Path to Valinor; either that or someone in Middle earth would be surprised one day by a large eagle carrying a packet labelled "return to sender."
I can tell this is a good one before even watching it. some what ifs are pretty obvious from the start what would happen but I never thoguht about this one before.
You made a great video! I think you hit what would have happened right on the nail! However, I do think the dwarves would march alongside this new alliance. Nonetheless, yea. Wonderful video!
Awesome video and it’s really interesting theory about what if Gil galad had lived. Keep up the good work and in future what ifs can you do one on Turin like what if Turin went to save Finduilas instead of his mother and sister? Just an idea for next what if. Great video.
I love ur theory, I think it’s a very realistic, feasible, and likely approach to the timeline! I also mean that I personally like/enjoy the idea itself, not just as a potential outcome. My only disagreement is that I feel certain that Gil galad would work out how to immediately get the ring to mt.doom, to destroy it. I just don’t believe anyone who understood the importance and potential danger the ring held, would ever stop actively working on the problem. Anything from having the eagles fly it, or have a large company carry it in a cask, or something, like how the ark of the covenant was transported, so not only would no one have to touch it, but no one would have to even get close to it, to even just constantly thru the years, try individual after individual, race after race, to find someone who is incorruptible, or relatively so, like the whole King Arthur/the sword in the stone situation, and would have eventually gotten to the hobbits, or maybe just strong enough individuals of other races, or maybe if no one strong enough was found they could even set up a relay, so it was only carried by any one individual for a very short time(under the excessive guard, of an entire army watching whatever individual had the ring, of course). Or even just have a heroic volunteer sacrifice that will still definitely b corrupted, carry the ring, basically just as a means of transporting it, chained, and under heavy guard, maybe even in a cage or something, to mt.doom, with the understanding that the ring will be thrown into the lava, without any hesitation, at any cost, including the volunteer’s life, as well as potentially any number of other individuals present, if need be. That one is pretty rough, but still more than worth it, if it’s what needed to b done, and I’m sure there would b plenty of volunteers more than willing to possibly give their hand/arm(if it needs to be hacked off, while holding the ring), or even their life, to destroy sauron for good.(*Except that last one, which I came up with, and edited it in, just shortly after entering this whole reply in the first place...)...I came up with those as I was writing this, in time to not even have to stop writing to think, and I think they would all work, so I’m sure that a high king of the Noldor would b able to come up with something, given time lol
I seem to recall that Gil-Galad and Elendil actually physically wrestled with Sauron, and managed to inflict mortal wounds on Sauron's physical body. He in turn inflicted mortal wounds on both of them, before Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's finger!
Nice idea for an ending, I would love to see a part two with Saruman and the events of the 4th age. If I may make a suggestion another what if, what if the men & dwarfs of the first age learnt the secrets of crafting from Aulë and what effects that would have on the timeline, what if the order of awaking of men & elves where reversed, what if the Years of the Treees remained after the awakening of men.
Nice theory. Gil-Galad had big influence among the elves, so I also think, that elves would play more active role in the third age with Gil-Galad as the high king. I once thought about theory what if Túrin's and Nienor's child would born before Nienor's death. I think that it is really interesting idea.
Gollum would not exist, Smeagol having died of old age centuries before, so Bilbo would have died in the caves, had his route through the mountains been the same. I'm sure if Tolkien had written that story, it would have been much darker. I can't see the elves successfully keeping anyone from taking the One Ring for three millennia. Indeed its corruption might have led to a elf civil war! Sorry to rain on the parade...☹
Please expand on how Gandalf makes Bilbo cast the ring into Mount Doom to be unmade? I think that perhaps it's not possible for anyone to willingly destroy the ring, even through another person. I find the way it is destroyed by Gollum fascinating. Great content, as always, thank you.
I really like your videos and especially your "what if" scenarios, but this one needs some criticism I´m afraid. Firstly, you´re underestimating the power of the One Ring (and overestimating the power of the Elves). Had Gil-galad survived the War against Sauron and taken the One Ring to Rivendell, it would have been only a matter of time before even the most noble Elf would have become corrupted by the Ring. Gandalf and Galadriel were tempted by the One Ring and refused to even look at it. With the One Ring staying at Rivendell for dozens of centuries, the temptation to use it would eventually be too great to resist. You´re in a sense contradicting your previous "what if" videos concerning the One Ring. Secondly, if Gil-galad remained in Middle-earth and the Noldor Kingdom stayed intact, there wouldn´t be much need for the Valar to send the Istari to Middle-earth. They were sent to Middle-earth because the power of the Elves faded and Men were not yet capable enough to resist Sauron on their own. Thirdly, if Gil-galad lived and the One Ring was found in a similar fashion like the original timeline, it had gotten to Bilbo and an upgraded Company of the Ring (with the likes of Gil-galad, Gandalf (although he probably wouldn´t have been in Middle-earth), Glorfindel and Elrond) was formed to destroy the One Ring, they would have failed utterly. They would have fallen one by one as they were getting closer to Mount Doom. There would have been internal strife over what to do and the most powerful individual of the Company would have claimed the One Ring eventually, way before they were at the Sammath Naur. Despite this personal criticism of this particular video, I really like your weekly updates. What´s nice about "what ifs", is that there is no real right or wrong, as the one who could give us a definitive answer has gone beyond the circles of the World many decades ago :) Looking forward to next week´s video!
When I clicked this video it was replaced with a "adopt a carniore. Feed it!" Ad. It was very weird. So I loaded it from your channel instead and then it worked perfectly. It was especially strange seeing all the comments under the 6 sec video talking about this vid. Weird.
I’m not sure if Gandalf would have had the same interest in Eriabor if the ring had been in Rivendell. Gandalf often speaks for providence and is most closely in tune with the will of Iluvatar. Also, didn’t Elrond have claim to the high kingship, but simply rejected it? I wonder if the elves were already feeling the calling to the West. A unified kingdom of men would be the biggest difference and that is a very interesting thought.
I suspect that saruman would have been unable to help himself, with the ring just sitting there. I can see him pulling something and taking the ring by stealth or violence. Using his voice on the guards protecting it.
I think it would be somewhere between this and the canon timeline. This is a pretty optimistic view of the elves power in the Third Age. I don't think that Gil-Galad's survival would have prevented so many elves from leaving for Valinor. More would probably have stayed longer, but not sure if it would have been enough to make them that powerful. Also, I think the quest for Erebor has a much higher chance of failing without Bilbo's invisibility. That's more arguable however.
My one question or thought to would be erebore. Though elves dont get along, i imagine they would still acquire from the elves. This may slow down their journey a tad but it would also make it go smoother instead of having to beg dale for assistance going straight there with the elves, which in turn could have eased the attack on dale by smaug. Though it might cause more troubles with the dragon sickness. In the end though i believe it would have made the battle of the 5 armies easier as already they had a host of elves with them (if they werent looking to leave him due to theordin's sickness)
Slight alternative: The only way that Saruman could ever hope to get the ring would be to join the alternative fellowship. And once Bilbo would enter Mt Doom, he would likely use his magic, speech, or some other trick to get the ring from Bilbo, forcing the rest of the fellowship to yeet Saruman with the ring down into lava. Alternative alternative: Since Saruman returned from the east, he would be pretty much aware how badly beaten Sauron got, so he would not be all that much willing to join him, since he would consider Sauron to be a rather weak ally.
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed the video! As I was making it, I reflected on the generally passive role of the Elves during the Third Age, and indeed this theory assumes that Gil-galad would have been active and not passive. It’s possible he could have survived and not be this active, but that would not have changed the story much, and it was more interesting to consider Gil-galad at his greatest power and strategic/active mindset going into the Third Age. This may have allowed for certain conveniences, as there are in any story, but I do hope you all enjoyed it like I did!
Love these what if videos! Thank you sir!
I believe Gil-Galad would take up Dol Guldur spot to protect the north from the threat East. Angmar would be weak against counterattacks from the south.
That would have made a good story too! Alternate universe 😉
Much enjoyed!
Yep imagine how much better it would have been to have a high king of the Noldor leading elves instead of pacifist wussy elrond who had no fight in him.
The Elves are my favourite people so I lov the idea that under the high kingship of GilGalad they finally enjoyed a period of prosperity and relative peace in the Third Age before leaving Middle Earth. In the original timeline they experienced only war, destruction, and sorrow
They were given the chance to join the Valar. Some chose to not make the journey. Some journeyed west, then returned for vengeance. Our voices at have consequences and we often have only ourselves to blame for our woe. I see this as the lesson that the elves can teach us. "When Angel's bacon, willfully refusing may not be the best idea. Vengeance is always a rocky road." Pity the elves, yes, but understanding their folly seems useful. We share much in common with Tolkien's elves.
@@freddaniel5099 Mmmm... Angel's Bacon...
@@joshevans3452 sounds goood🤤
@@valkeery1216 Tastes heavenly (or so ive heard)
@@freddaniel5099 That's ridiculous. The children of the Noldor didn't choose to rebel, and the children of the Sindhar and Nondor didn't choose to be born in Middle Earth. They're most of who was left in the Third Age.
Saruman remaining in Middle-earth to try and become the next dark lord is a fascinating idea. If he still tried to create his empire from Isengard though, I don't think he'd be able to conquer much outside of Rohan, the strength of men and lack of resources would be too much to overcome.
Of course, Saruman doesn't have to stay in Isengard. Maybe he starts in the remains of Mordor after Sauron's defeat, or goes even further east to forge his empire. Lots of possibilities.
Idk, he was able to make a sizable army in just a few weeks. If he kept that industrial power and expanded it, I could see Isengard becoming a much greater power, so long as he doesn’t play his hand too quickly and makes sure to weaken the enemy leadership like he did with theoden
@@steelrexer1062 y’all are forgetting Isengard is weak because of its neighbour to the north east, FANGORN!!!! Don’t mess with Ents. Saruman didn’t realize the power of the ents and so he paid for it.
He was a lot like Sauron in that he was a Maia of Aule - the Vala of Smithing (among other things), and it's fairly explicitly implied (in the books) that he was dabbling in the creation of his own rings of power after (or while) his search for Sauron's ring failed. So it's very plausible to me that he might have succeeded for a while if he had survived and his chief opponents were departed.
No, I think the Ring would have corrupted Rivendell. What did Gandalf say? "Were it buried beneath the roots of Mindolluin, still it would burn your mind away, as the darkness grows, and the yet worse things follow that soon shall come upon us."
Honestly that's what I'd think, in this timeline the elves have had it for several millenia. I think it'd be more realistic to have the white council slowly fracture as they met increasingly often in Rivendell. Over thousands of years, I'm pretty sure at least Elrond or Galadriel would be swayed by the ring possibly even Gil-galad himself. He may be cool and powerful but I don't know how well he'd do against the ring after 1000's of years (plus it'd low-key be more interesting that way)
A nice theory, I would love to see Aiglos in action beyond a few rushed seconds.
I really think Gil-Galad would have had more moral authority to tell Isildur to destroy the ring right after he had cut it from Sauron's hand. It might have been difficult, but in the end the ring would have been destroyed when it should have been. Just my two cents.
I agree completely, although the video would have been quite short 😂
@@critanalysis9546 Along with the books. 😜
The thing is: The way Tolkien wrote it, it seems nobody could bear the ring and destroy it willingly.
In a way, a built-in safeguard.
This is why Sauron never even considered the idea that his enemies were out to destroy the One Ring; He knew they couldn't do it.
That is why the way it happened was the only way possible.
@@michaelt.5672 That's what I wanted to say. I'm not sure if it is only a theory or if it actually is hinted on in the text but I think heard somewhere that Eru himself intervened in the end by tripping Gollum so the ring would be destroyed and that otherwise indeed no on would be able to destroy the ring willingly.
@@resathe6760 Eru's direct involvement is never hinted at to my knownledge.
That would make it a direct divine intervention / deus ex machina. Tolkien himself coined a somewhat different concept, the "eucatastrophe" (i.e. the inverse of a catastrophe, a sudden and unexpected turn of the story for the better).
The difference being, to my understanding, that Tolkien saw the eucatastrophe as a cosmic consequence of small acts of good, not nessecarily involving supernatural forces.
In the case of the final showdown at mount doom, Frodo's own previous mercy towards Gollum was a key factor in the destruction of the ring (among, of course, MANY others), even though nobody could have foreseen the outcome of that.
If you will, it is a narrative application of the idea of "be good for goodness sake, and good consequences will follow, even if they are outside of what you can percieve".
And since Eru Illuvatar created his world in a manner where even the greatest evil would ultimately only serve his ends, I am certain that he saw to it that this world would have good deeds lead to greater ends, even without his own direct intervention.
I’m in the middle of reading the Silmarillion for the third time and I have two suggestions I’d be very interested in hearing as a “what if”. What if Feanor recovered from his mortal wounds by the balrogs and survived to remain high king of the Noldor? And what if King Thingol surrendered the Silmaril when Melian first urged him to?
Damn, it would be freaking epic if Feanor survived back then. I feel there would be some badass wars going all over the Beleriand though. A good question indeed!
That would have been a disaster. Feanor would have plunged the free people of middle earth into wars with each other, he was far too dangerous, self-centered, inconsiderate... dude HAD to die
The only thing I wonder about if Feanor had lived is what other things he could have crafted
Remember this one thing, YOU built this community. Never forget that! For my part, i must say thankyou, thank you for putting a light in my heart with your videos, for the smal light of hope in my life that is currently filled with darkness. Thank you for telling me the tales you do, thank you for uploading videos of the kind you do! In darkness you give hope.
Love this style of content! You should totally make “What if Morgoth won the war of wrath?”!!!! I have thought about this all the time, and would love to see a video on it!
No, what if Ungoliant had her way with Morgoth?
@@bauglir2462 nan dungortheb would end up being the entirety of arda, she'd probably try to consume everything she comes across. I'm sure her intentions are very similar to Morgoth, perhaps even darker
Even if he won and killed many major generals of the Host of Valinor (eg. Eonwe, Finarfin, Ingwion), I doubt he could completely flush out the remaining resistance in Middle-earth like Gil-Galad and the Sons of Feanor.
At any rate, the War of Wrath was still only a fraction of the power of Valinor. If Eonwe lost, the Valar would just be forced to come themselves.
Gil-galad was my favorite of all the Elves. Glorfindel is a very close second. Thanks for the video, Sir.
Feanor is personally my favorite elf, personally. I'm a sucker for morally complex anti-heroes.
I would personally say, my favorite elf was Finrod Felagund
Eol's story was always my favorite, twisted and tragic.
For me it's
1. Fingolfin
2. Glorfindel
3. Elrond
4. Gil-Galad
Legends !!!
Very well thought out theory. I really enjoyed how you brought up the slothfulness of elves and I like how you made Gil-Galad descended from Fingolfin. Many overlook or change this with the theories. Ty for being a true Tolkien loremaster. Appreciate the content.
I was waiting for Saruman to pull some sick trick right at the end, a little switch and duplicity with the one ring.
I could imagine your story being an interesting alternate universe setting for a video game
You can totally do a part 2 with Saruman try to build his own ring
Aeglos would be the chief weapon Sauron would fear. Gil-Galad would have a strong kingdom somewhere. Thandruil would listen to the call of his High King and help more in Hobbit and the War.
Thranduil is sindar a descendant of thingol. So he would probably do what he did anyway
I might have missed it, but how would Gandalf notice Bilbo’s resilience towards the effects of the one ring during the quest of Erebor, if the one ring is kept in Rivendell?
Bro... they have been to Rivendell while en route to Erebor
So... If Gil Galad survived... We’d have (probably) another Dark Lord in Saruman? Now that would be interesting to see...
This was a nice addition to the week, another @Men of the West Video...Thanks, Mellon!!!
I wished you have done some Years of the Trees through to the Second age Theories and now it's started because boy I would love to see how the Future of Arda Changing!!!
Thanks, Mellon for a great 2nd Age Fan Theory, Until Minas Tirith *In the 3rd Age* Marion Baggins Out!!!
Thank you for the video
lol I love it whenever one of these theories turns into Bilbo taking the Ring instead. Usually accompanied by the white council. So funny thinking about our singular little guy fresh off of his first adventure, grieving his friends dying, getting whisked away by angels and elves to march all the way to Mordor as they guard him.
One of the most exciting aspects of these videos is that they may be used as a data set in a simulation 20-30 years from now. So if someone wants to alter history in their middle earth simulation, they will have access to this information to reference. Great work, as always.
I've always assumed that Elrond *did* attempt a search: but it was in vain because the Ring did not wish to be found by them. Or rather Sauron did not wish them to find it. Remember: the Rings of Power can be hidden from those that the bearer does not wish to see them.
Sadly, I don't think there was any realistic possibility of Gilgalad surviving fighting Sauron. He was too young, with too little power. The only way I can see this potentially working, is if Glórfindel had made it to where Gilgalad was fighting and used his power to protect the King. Gilgalad knew when he charged Sauron that he wasn't going to come out of the fight alive: but it would be worthwhile to buy Isildur time. He had full confidence that those he left behind could and would defeat Sauron for good, one way or another. Even if some of those people didn't realize they had the power and the skills required: Gilgalad's best quality was that he saw the potential in others and worked to bring it out. He sacrificed himself because he knew his work was done. The woodland realm was established, and Thranduil would grow into a King to rival Thingol. Elrond was set on the path towards growing to rival his great ancestors (don't mistake secrecy for passivity: If you read between the lines it becomes pretty evident that Elrond and Galadriel were very active throughout the Third Age and orchestrated the entire War of the Ring). If Gilgalad hadn't died during the Last Alliance, he would have taken ship soon after is my feeling. His protégés were ready to come into their own, and his continued presence would only hamper them.
Great theory!
Interesting theory, and well-laid out as ever.
However, I have noticed a potential flaw. Once the Ring is discovered in the Anduin, how would it be brought back to Rivendell if it required a less-corruptible Hobbit to later carry it to Mordor? Surely an Elf would have to bear it back to Rivendell, and at that point, would he or she have been able to release it to a safe location there? (i.e. so that no-one actually held it, and would it truly remain unheld?)
But if they could, for argument's sake, then the decision to bear it back to Rivendell was a mistake. Sauron had *just* been defeated a short while before - now would be the right time to go back to Mordor with the intention of destroying the Ring, especially since Gil-Galad had already reflected that Isildur should have done so. With Sauron out of the picture and probably the Nazgul and the orcs in hiding, it would have been an easier path than waiting for Sauron to form again and having to defeat his armies, and it would not have allowed others (looking at Saruman in particular) so much time to be corrupted by it.
It is true, they probably would not have known about the Hobbits as ideal Ringbearers, but perhaps they could have set up a relay-system of Ringbearers to be carrying it for a short period of time before handing it to the next, each handover supervised and enforced (if necessary) by the White Council who would not bear the Ring themselves, and the former Ringbearers would then be sent back home. At all times the Ringbearers and Ring would be under guard. By limiting this exposure, they might have avoided the more deeper addiction and corruption of the Ring.
How quickly would a non-Hobbit fall to the power of the Ring? It's hard to say. Smeagol of course was a Hobbit too and fell instantly; however Sam carried it for a short time and did not have any particular difficulty giving it back to Frodo. It would be risky to use Men, but Elves...or perhaps even Dwarves? Dwarves did not fall to the Seven in the same way that Men fell to the Nine, so that might be a thought re: potentially greater resistance to corruption, although trust between Dwarves and Elves would have been a difficult issue.
Eh. We don't really know. Since elves never even try it. Probably fearing a permanent scarring in there souls, but we know that with humans it has a hold on you instantly. Iseldur for instance was instantly hooked by the ring ince he picked it up, but he was very virtuous so he wasn't evil. Even though the ring had a hold on him. Which is why he wanted to bring it to Riverdall as he began to have doubts about it.
In short it's corruption seems instant but it takes some time to get you to be full evil all the time.
I think the ring would have corrupted the elves of Rivendell like it did Gollum in the cave. However, they would have lost Rivendell completely vs the canon timeline where Rivendell stood strong.
Also, an elf leader might have become a new dark lord, like we saw with Galadriel when tempted with the ring. Middle earth would have fallen in my opinion.
Hmm i have a theory - Elrond, Galadriel, after battle and defeat of Sauron, as you said, they must've been surely aware that One Ring left "lost" is sure dangerous but they were not eager to find it as they then would have to destoy it and with that their Elven Rings would lose power. Maybe they realized that with One Ring "conveniently" lost beyond finding (surely carried to the ocean and lost forever) they can freely use powers of their Elven Rings to rebuild their kingdoms, maybe vanity and temptation to use of this power to rebuild from losses sustained during War seemed "fair" to them. Its funny to think what would happen if One Ring was indeed carried to the ocean - would Sauron win then in the end? or maybe he'd never be able to regain his form with Ring so far from "his area of influence".
You make an extremely good point! The Three Elven Rings were made for preserving the dearly held lifestyle and culture reminiscent of the power and glory (and pride) of the Noldors' lost kingdoms in Beleriand, and possibly even the memory of things going all the way back to their prior home in Aman. This was a legacy in Middle Earth which the Noldor at best lovingly cherished, and at worst, deeply coveted. And given this motivation, it wouldn't be surprising if the Noldor had fooled themselves into believing that The One Ring really had been lost forever and they could continue using the Three to maintain their blessed existence in Middle Earth on their own terms, indefinitely. In the context of your theory above, the fact that the Three existed at all was simultaneously a huge blessing and, far more subtly, a self-inflicted curse for the Elves which Sauron could use, given he knew what would motivate and influence the leaders of the Noldor - and more than just about anything else, he was masterful at exploiting such motivations to his own ends.
@@moistmike4150 what i dont understand tho is how existence of the One was sustaining power of 3. Isnt it said that Sauron never touched them? I guess because of that he couldnt control wearers directly but still why there is a connection in power between those and One.
@@adamhenry3928 Even though Sauron didn’t make them, Celebrimbor likely used the same power sources to make them (probably Sauron himself) so he could influence them somewhat.
I've asked this of another channel and they seem to ignore it, it's a what-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
I like the idea and will definitely consider making that video in the future! It would be interesting to see what further guidance Gandalf would have for Frodo, but at the cost of his greater power as the White Rider.
@@MenoftheWest That's my thought! But I figured you may have greater insight and creativity towards the scenario. Thanks for the response!!!
Fun theory and I give you credit for taking it on. I think you glossed over a few things too easily or quickly during the adventure of Bilbo and Thorin's company that without the ring would have been pretty problematic, but credit to giving it a go!
If Gil-gilad had recovered the One Ring and brought it to Rivendell, he would have been corrupted. As a king, accustomed to wield power and to command, he would be more vulnerable to the One Ring, not less. Any of Gil-gilad's friends who would try to stop him would be destroyed by the forces of the corrupted king. Meanwhile, Sauron would hide . . . and watch . . . and wait.
I'd like to believe you're correct
@@bearbear3793me too
LOVE YOUR NEW INTRO! GREAT VIDEO!
"By my life or death, I will protect you"
Oh man if he survived.....we'd basically have two Elronds running around, which would b overkill in the wisdom department but its middle earth so it would get a pass.
But would he be more likely to use his Elven ring more overtly than Elrond did? 🤔
Most likely not but still fun to think about.........the council of Gil Galad.........just got chills haha
I don't know that the Elven rings _can_ be used overtly. Its strength lies in preserving and healing, not in conquest or war.
real cool video Yoystan loved it
I loved this. What a fantastic alternate storyline. Thanks for sharing this wonderful and deeply developed alternate reality for Middle Earth.
The major issue with immortality is that it takes away our natural urge to leave behind a living legacy of our existence (that is, descendants). There’s no hurry as well. Gil-Galad’s realm could have survived even after his death, had he had left an heir. Why would he bother? Even if died, he’d be reembodied in Valinor sooner or later and his subjects always had the option of going there. Elves could never linger in Middle-earth.
Really excellent video, well done!!
Such an interesting video. Gil-Galad is one of my faves and he's so underrated, so I'm happy to see this video.
Amazing video. I always wondered what would have happened if gil galad had survived.
I love these what if vids! Thank you for another great vid. A fan fiction caught my attention recently, The Undecided Title of Sara Miller which is a Hobbit retelling. Already the changes to the timeline will surely have a significant effect on the Lord of the Rings timeline. I love the storytelling and seeing how small elements, weaved together, have such an impact. 😊
Amazing video as always friend keep up the great work
Nice to see one of my favourite characters in the legendarium survive
I remember reading about Gil-Galad in a LOTR movie book, he was awesome!
Excellent video as always! 👍
Another great thing about this ending is that finarfin high king of the noldor in Valinor would finally meet his grandson Gil-Galad.
I strongly disagree, my friend that Gil-Galad would find the One Ring, or that he and Elrond would hold it in Rivendell without it corrupting them or someone else, tbh I could see it escaping Gil-Galad's grasp. With that said, Arnor might survive I agree with that, as Gil-Galad's kingdom would help it to resist the Witch-King. Gondor would still be in the same weakened position, just before Elessar assumes the kingship there also. Over-all the result would be likely similar to how you describe it, except with Frodo and his friends participating in the War of the One Ring still.
If Gil-Galad was still king, Arathorn would be King of both Arnor and Gondor. If Saruman doesn't turn evil, Arnor, Rohan, and Gondor would be strong enough to March on Mordor. Lots of ifs but supporting men in the third age changes alot.
I like your well presented theory. I wonder, though, how the doom of Mandos on the Noldor "the Dispossessed" would have tripped up Gil-galad for surely it would have marred with treachery what the High King had "....begun well."
Really enjoyed this video, great job!
Here's a Theory for you. What if Aragorn DIDN'T stop King Theoden from killing Grima Wormtongue?
Which is bs because in the book Theoden was willing to give Grima second chance. And Theoden let him go. In the movies, lot of stuff is attributed to Aragorn, which were in reality done by Theoden.
this really captured my interest! what an excellent what if theory!!
That picture at 0:14 of Gil-galad and Aeglos/Aiglos is so badass -- wielding his enchanted spear to face off against supreme evil!
Nice to see the theory videos back!
Amazing! I love your theory videos!
Great theory, but I disagree at one point. If Smeagol hadn't have found the Ring, Bilbo would have died in the depths of the caves of the Misty Mountains. And if not there, then the Quest for Erebor would have failed in the Elvenking's Halls. Or when Smaug caught Bilbo in the Lonely Mountain. The One Ring was central to Bilbo's success, which is sort of an unintended irony (at least at the time) of The Hobbit. Gandalf would never have noted Bilbo's resiliance to the Ring, Bilbo probably would have died, and the Ring would have remained in Rivendell until Saruman could figure out a way to get his hands on it. From there, who knows what would have happened. I think Eru Illuvatar, in his immeasureable subtlety, meant for Smeagol and Bilbo to find the Ring, and for that to happen, perhaps Gil-Galad had to die.
You finally did it!
This is a pretty badass timeline.
Nice work dude thanks
Epic Character profile:
Ecthelion of the Fountain
Having Saruman stay behind to make a new ring and probably rise as the 3rd dark lord is really interesting. I imagine another war happening and Gil-Galad returning with a host from Valinor to fight, Earendil style. Now I need to hear a part 2 of this awesome what if!
nice to see a what if that is better than the ''real'' story
This seems to me to exaggerate the importance of the One Ring in the minds of the Elves of that period. Sauron had been defeated twice even when he possessed the Ring. There was no strong reason to believe it was imperative to find it.
This is an interesting theory although I believe it wouldn't have made any difference if gilgalad survived and remained as high king of the noldor because after the last battle very few noldor remained so in the end nothing much would have changed in my opinion.
Good work on the video.
No. Gil-Galad would have destroyed the ring outright. So would Elendil.. They would just took Sauron's corpse and drop it into the fires of mount Doom. Ring and all. It was the tragedy of witnessing the death of both great heroes of elves and men, that actually made Isildur susceptible to the temptation in the first place. And one of those heroes was his own father, which made the temptation a ten times worse. At any case, this is just as far as theory goes. Not destroying the One ring that day was a crucible part of the music of Ainur.
Gil-Galad surviving means:
The Hobbit and LOTR easy mode
It could be still more interesting to pick up with the early beginning of the 4th age with Saruman attempting to forge his own ring of power. I think there would be a mind control element to that ring since Saruman was known for his commanding voice and leadership ability. In the meantime, Arathorn II would take up the mantle of the High King, and assume the name Elesser, elf friend, in honor of his compatriots in the final battle. In due time he and his wife Gilraen (who does NOT die early in this timeline) would have a son and heir Aragorn, who in time would take the throne and be known as Elamrun, the rising star or the morning star. He would grow up a very different person than he did in the main timeline, a crown prince of the blood, raised in the palace of Anuminas. However, this would not make him soft or weak or entitled. Rather he would have become an academic and an administrator rather than a ranger of the wilderness. He studied the history and knowledge of the human kingdoms and their ancestors in Numenor well, marking their steps and missteps, victories and defeats, successes and failures. It was thought that he would lead the human kingdoms into, if not an unlimited future of peace, then at least a long time of peace and prosperity. In time he married Sariel, princess of one of the many noble houses, after a relatively conventional courtship and betrothal, without the long drama of his attempt to win Arwen, who had departed with her father. After they had a son, also here named Eldarion, it seemed their happiness was complete. Ah, but no sooner did Elamrun accept the scepter from his father (for in these kingdoms as in Numenor they followed the ancient custom of the king passing on the scepter while still hale) than Saruman chose to use the new ring he had forged to make his move. The time had come for him to take up his ancestors sword and prove that he could be as great in war as his father had been and as he had hoped to be in peace. Would he be able to do it, and who would be his allies in this new struggle?
I have an idea: What if the Fellowship delayed their departure from Lothlorien by atleast 1 day? Would they have met Gandalf the White?
I am not sure about the timeline, but a little delay might have brought them all together. However, this delay might end up costing the entire mission, due to how narrow the success was (the battle at the black gate occurring at the same time Frodo and Sam reached the cracks of doom). Its a lot to think about.
I believe that if they delayed their departure by one day, Gwaihir would have found Gandalf and brought him to Lothlórien one day later, making sure they would not meet. After all, this timing was probably the work of Eru Ilúvatar.
Ow man! These videos excite the crap out of me! Keep going with these 'what if' videos!
I really like the way you treated this topic. Gilgalad died far to tragically and early. Even Tolkien seemed to grieve deeply.
Sauron, with Gilgalad still in action, may have had success in summoning the balrog, Durin's Bane from Moria to guard the door at Mt Doom. I would then expect Sauron had seen the destruction of the ring as a real possibility that needed the utmost attention. And Smaug working in collaboration with Sauron, on the battlefield with the witching. May certainly have been a event if the Lad had not gone to the halls.
What if Boromir and faramir went to Rivendell together
Here's a question for you. What if the One Ring had been found after Gladden Fields, given to the elves and then sent across to the Undying Lands. Could Sauron have ever possibly retrieved it from there??
As I recall this option gets discussed in the book, and ruled out as the Valar would not receive the Ring. Presumably a ship carrying it would be unable to find the Straight Path to Valinor; either that or someone in Middle earth would be surprised one day by a large eagle carrying a packet labelled "return to sender."
Great. Now I want a part 2 on if Saruman tried to make his own ring of power.
A movie on Gil Galad or Glorfindel would be awesome :)
I can tell this is a good one before even watching it. some what ifs are pretty obvious from the start what would happen but I never thoguht about this one before.
Great Video! You should do a follow up video on this on Saruman as the next potential dark lord and Lord of the Ring.
You made a great video! I think you hit what would have happened right on the nail! However, I do think the dwarves would march alongside this new alliance. Nonetheless, yea. Wonderful video!
Awesome video and it’s really interesting theory about what if Gil galad had lived. Keep up the good work and in future what ifs can you do one on Turin like what if Turin went to save Finduilas instead of his mother and sister? Just an idea for next what if. Great video.
He'd finally find out his who his True Dad is.
A midweek video? What new devilry is this?
What if the shards of Gurthang from Tol Morwen were excavated and reforged in the third age?
Or if a silmaril was found by Sauron?
Great theory. My favorite is still the what if Saruman had remained good theory.
What if fingolfin survived fighting morgoth?
I love ur theory, I think it’s a very realistic, feasible, and likely approach to the timeline! I also mean that I personally like/enjoy the idea itself, not just as a potential outcome. My only disagreement is that I feel certain that Gil galad would work out how to immediately get the ring to mt.doom, to destroy it. I just don’t believe anyone who understood the importance and potential danger the ring held, would ever stop actively working on the problem. Anything from having the eagles fly it, or have a large company carry it in a cask, or something, like how the ark of the covenant was transported, so not only would no one have to touch it, but no one would have to even get close to it, to even just constantly thru the years, try individual after individual, race after race, to find someone who is incorruptible, or relatively so, like the whole King Arthur/the sword in the stone situation, and would have eventually gotten to the hobbits, or maybe just strong enough individuals of other races, or maybe if no one strong enough was found they could even set up a relay, so it was only carried by any one individual for a very short time(under the excessive guard, of an entire army watching whatever individual had the ring, of course). Or even just have a heroic volunteer sacrifice that will still definitely b corrupted, carry the ring, basically just as a means of transporting it, chained, and under heavy guard, maybe even in a cage or something, to mt.doom, with the understanding that the ring will be thrown into the lava, without any hesitation, at any cost, including the volunteer’s life, as well as potentially any number of other individuals present, if need be. That one is pretty rough, but still more than worth it, if it’s what needed to b done, and I’m sure there would b plenty of volunteers more than willing to possibly give their hand/arm(if it needs to be hacked off, while holding the ring), or even their life, to destroy sauron for good.(*Except that last one, which I came up with, and edited it in, just shortly after entering this whole reply in the first place...)...I came up with those as I was writing this, in time to not even have to stop writing to think, and I think they would all work, so I’m sure that a high king of the Noldor would b able to come up with something, given time lol
Very interesting! Think I would take some different turns here and there. My main difference would be the ring being found as it was in the cannon.
I seem to recall that Gil-Galad and Elendil actually physically wrestled with Sauron, and managed to inflict mortal wounds on Sauron's physical body. He in turn inflicted mortal wounds on both of them, before Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's finger!
Saruman makes his own ring?
That sounds like something in need of a follow up my friend!
That one ended on a great cliffhanger 👌🏼
Another unexpected party
Nice idea for an ending, I would love to see a part two with Saruman and the events of the 4th age.
If I may make a suggestion another what if, what if the men & dwarfs of the first age learnt the secrets of crafting from Aulë and what effects that would have on the timeline, what if the order of awaking of men & elves where reversed, what if the Years of the Treees remained after the awakening of men.
Wouldn't Galadriel use her mirror to see what would happen should the One Ring not be destroyed?
Nice theory. Gil-Galad had big influence among the elves, so I also think, that elves would play more active role in the third age with Gil-Galad as the high king.
I once thought about theory what if Túrin's and Nienor's child would born before Nienor's death. I think that it is really interesting idea.
Gollum would not exist, Smeagol having died of old age centuries before, so Bilbo would have died in the caves, had his route through the mountains been the same.
I'm sure if Tolkien had written that story, it would have been much darker. I can't see the elves successfully keeping anyone from taking the One Ring for three millennia. Indeed its corruption might have led to a elf civil war! Sorry to rain on the parade...☹
So I guess the end war of the Second Age would be the War of the...Second Last Alliance?
Please expand on how Gandalf makes Bilbo cast the ring into Mount Doom to be unmade? I think that perhaps it's not possible for anyone to willingly destroy the ring, even through another person.
I find the way it is destroyed by Gollum fascinating.
Great content, as always, thank you.
What if Treebeard took the ring?
Why didn't the ring betray Sam at Mordor?
I really like your videos and especially your "what if" scenarios, but this one needs some criticism I´m afraid.
Firstly, you´re underestimating the power of the One Ring (and overestimating the power of the Elves). Had Gil-galad survived the War against Sauron and taken the One Ring to Rivendell, it would have been only a matter of time before even the most noble Elf would have become corrupted by the Ring. Gandalf and Galadriel were tempted by the One Ring and refused to even look at it. With the One Ring staying at Rivendell for dozens of centuries, the temptation to use it would eventually be too great to resist. You´re in a sense contradicting your previous "what if" videos concerning the One Ring.
Secondly, if Gil-galad remained in Middle-earth and the Noldor Kingdom stayed intact, there wouldn´t be much need for the Valar to send the Istari to Middle-earth. They were sent to Middle-earth because the power of the Elves faded and Men were not yet capable enough to resist Sauron on their own.
Thirdly, if Gil-galad lived and the One Ring was found in a similar fashion like the original timeline, it had gotten to Bilbo and an upgraded Company of the Ring (with the likes of Gil-galad, Gandalf (although he probably wouldn´t have been in Middle-earth), Glorfindel and Elrond) was formed to destroy the One Ring, they would have failed utterly. They would have fallen one by one as they were getting closer to Mount Doom. There would have been internal strife over what to do and the most powerful individual of the Company would have claimed the One Ring eventually, way before they were at the Sammath Naur.
Despite this personal criticism of this particular video, I really like your weekly updates. What´s nice about "what ifs", is that there is no real right or wrong, as the one who could give us a definitive answer has gone beyond the circles of the World many decades ago :)
Looking forward to next week´s video!
When I clicked this video it was replaced with a "adopt a carniore. Feed it!" Ad. It was very weird. So I loaded it from your channel instead and then it worked perfectly. It was especially strange seeing all the comments under the 6 sec video talking about this vid. Weird.
This was cool. Now do what if Elendil had survived?
I’m not sure if Gandalf would have had the same interest in Eriabor if the ring had been in Rivendell. Gandalf often speaks for providence and is most closely in tune with the will of Iluvatar. Also, didn’t Elrond have claim to the high kingship, but simply rejected it? I wonder if the elves were already feeling the calling to the West. A unified kingdom of men would be the biggest difference and that is a very interesting thought.
I suspect that saruman would have been unable to help himself, with the ring just sitting there. I can see him pulling something and taking the ring by stealth or violence. Using his voice on the guards protecting it.
Thanks!
I think it would be somewhere between this and the canon timeline. This is a pretty optimistic view of the elves power in the Third Age. I don't think that Gil-Galad's survival would have prevented so many elves from leaving for Valinor. More would probably have stayed longer, but not sure if it would have been enough to make them that powerful.
Also, I think the quest for Erebor has a much higher chance of failing without Bilbo's invisibility. That's more arguable however.
My one question or thought to would be erebore. Though elves dont get along, i imagine they would still acquire from the elves. This may slow down their journey a tad but it would also make it go smoother instead of having to beg dale for assistance going straight there with the elves, which in turn could have eased the attack on dale by smaug. Though it might cause more troubles with the dragon sickness. In the end though i believe it would have made the battle of the 5 armies easier as already they had a host of elves with them (if they werent looking to leave him due to theordin's sickness)
Slight alternative:
The only way that Saruman could ever hope to get the ring would be to join the alternative fellowship. And once Bilbo would enter Mt Doom, he would likely use his magic, speech, or some other trick to get the ring from Bilbo, forcing the rest of the fellowship to yeet Saruman with the ring down into lava.
Alternative alternative:
Since Saruman returned from the east, he would be pretty much aware how badly beaten Sauron got, so he would not be all that much willing to join him, since he would consider Sauron to be a rather weak ally.