I always enjoy watching your videos and really appreciate your honesty and your straightforward, no B.S. approach. I wasn't sure what to make of this title when they announced it since I am not a huge fan of the Venom theme but when the pro model became available to play at a a nearby location I jumped on it! And to my surprise, I was extremely satisfied on how well the game shoots and the shot layout even without the additional mechs. I found it to have a lot of flow similar to Game of Thrones. I do agree with you in regards of animations though, they do not provide enough information for team-ups unless you've read through the ruleset. For the most part the playfield art/text and lights help steer you the rest of the way IF you pay attention to it. Sidenote: I do believe the VUK mech just needs to be adjusted to get "just right" in order to prevent ball from ending up on playfield instead of wire-form. We had two side x side at the location I play at and one experienced the same issue that you mentioned and the other had no issues whatsoever. Personally, I found the rules to be fairly simple in comparison to say AIQ or Star Wars or even Mando. I firmly believe that there is plenty of "code emulation" even with having the ability to save your progress to keep players coming back for more. I do understand that the game won't be for "everyone" BUT it really starts to get interesting once you start to explore the "grid awards" and knowing what perks they bring to the table as well as what perks each host bring. I've had the pleasure of defeating the final boss on multiple occasions, choosing multiple paths, BUT the game rewards you for it with more powerful characters and perks which in turn help make it that much easier to get through the next time and the next and so on. All the while further advancing you towards the final Klyntar multi-ball wizard mode. Now do I think that the pro model has enough in it for the money? Not when you compare it to some of the more recent releases like Foo, Bond or Rush. It does seem a bit stripped down for sure. But I could see from an operator's point of view which means less stuff that can break which in turn means less down time and more money that it will earn. Do I wish they had the same mechs as the premium? Sure...but if I were to own the game personally I would spring for the Premium anyways. I think the game will be a solid earner. Only time will tell I suppose. I'm excited and am looking forward to playing the Premium. Should be able to get some time on it about a week or so. Thanks again for your thoughts in this video. Mad respect...and well done as usual!!
Received my LE yesterday, Pinwoofer/Polk Audio External Bass, completely dark room volume up!!! Game is absolutely phenomenal!!! Haters going to hate!! It is extremely unique!! and stupid fast!!! Absolutely love it!! Anamations are incredible!!
It blew my mind how angry the Stern employee got with me when I asked questions about the game in that live feed you showed. The guy gets paid to be on that shows live stream to promote a game so he should have been a bit nicer to the customer when the customer just had reasonable questions. I get he’s the guy who codes it and it’s his baby. The huge suspect in all of this is how much money and time Stern has put into trying to make the general pinball community like this game. I already don’t like it from how confusing and stripped down it is let alone the asking price.
I cant be the only one thats a massive Venom fan and almost ready to preorder this pinball machine until I saw the actual release footage right? When I saw it I was SO disappointed. The whole playfield look like its got absolutely nothing going on. Theres nothing on 2/3 of the playfield. I hate it. Such a shame.
Shocked you don’t like it. I’m loving the pros I got for location. They did take a tremendous amount of tweaking to get it to where I felt I could put them out in the wild. I love the game.
yeah, I was surprised at this as well. Must've been a really bad location. I've played four different pros in four different locations and I would say three out of four played amazingly. The pro was way better than I expected it to be mainly because of how fast it was.
All these old pinballers who can’t wrap their heads around shooting a yellow lit shot and then looking down at the playfield to see there’s now a newly lit brightly flashing yellow shot. Hmm what should I try to shoot for next? These rules are so confusing!
Thanks, Cary, for the honest (that’s why we love ya 😁) review of the Pro. As a casual, but obsessed player, I want to be able to walk up to the pin, read the apron cards quickly, then start having fun. Even with the pins I now own, I do *not* want to review & memorize 32 pages of rules & strategies in order to advance & improve my score with successive games. I *completely* agree with your statement in the last 10-15 seconds of this video. Pins like AFM remain popular, IMHO, because the rules are simple: hit the required shots to wipe out the Martians from that city, then progress to the next. MM- same thing, but different castles instead of cities. Most of the Pinside Top 10 pins are there because of easy to grasp rules, great game geometry resulting in satisfying, achievable (with practice) shots, & fun call outs. Just my 2 cents…
Got my LE after fixing a bunch of QC issues i was able to figure out the progression stuff and how to generaly play within 5 or 6 games. I like it so far, very fun so far but it needs little touches on code for sure. It needs some fixes for airballs as well
Hard to take your comment seriously when I literally specify in the beginning of the video that it's NOT a review. Secondly, the quick locks don't make the game. They merely speed up the game. What Stern advertises is "Choose your host CHANGE the game". That is talking about the morphing ramp that is only in the prem/le versions. The pro (which is what I focus this video on) doesn't have that perk.
Went into it blind. Didn’t read the card. Same as you. I feel like you nailed exactly how I felt playing it. I couldn’t figure out why a was choosing characters or what they do to help. The shots are ok but I was good after 5 games and moved on.
I played the PRO version. I found the rules very simple. It boils down to shooting at accessible targets, giving preference to those that flash and the more lights in the shooting corridor the better. Other details follow the same rule. And I liked that. But you need to play with generous TILT, and this is a detail that differentiates the place you play.
Feel the same about ALL the Pros. Some arcades now just seem to stock their lineup with nothing but Pros. It’s a utter disappointment. I don’t even want to play them. Premium at a minimum for me or pass. Then again I have been spoiled already. I understand that game prices have gotten out of control. But we may have hit the top. You see what happening to games like Toy Story. Sold out of the CEs in an hour but you see them on pinside for 2/3k less. So… choose wisely. And personally you will never see a Pro in my personal collection no matter how cheap they get.
Most players on location no matter how many times they continue likely won't ever beat Knull. It takes really good players a good long time to get that far. I'm really not worried about replayability on location for casuals.
My location has two Pros side by side. I haven't really understood the ruleset and need more time on it. But I'm worried that the deeply complex rulesets in some modern games are starting to pass me by. I still don't understand AIQ to this day and probably never will. Dwight Sullivan is a great designer, but he's getting too carried away with the rulesets and that's what's beginning to turn me off of competitive pinball. I consider myself a nerd/geek and even I think it's too much
The combo stacking on this game is just so fast... Agreed completely on pro vs premium. I personally really like the quick lock mechanisms, but there is just not enough on the stripped down pro to make it worth the cost.
RE: a ball boucing out of the VUK. Theres actually other bad things that can happen too. Its not uncommon for the game to launch a ball out of the quick lock, while your ball bounces out of the VUK, giving you essientially a free 2 ball multiball. Sounds kind of cool right? It isn't. Ignoring the fact that this is a big no no in tournaments, if you happen to drain one of those 2 balls, your turn ends. If you start any other mode while you have 2 balls out it will also end your ball, similar to the issue with starting video mode. At least if you do happen to shoot a ball into an area where quick locks are at, the game will recover by locking that ball back into the quick lock and you can continue play.
The best Pro model pinball from Stern is Deadpool. There's a reason why that machine is still in demand and in production. The playfield is full, the repeat gameplay is enjoyable, and the classic William's Electronics sound effects are enjoyable and fit the game quite well. Deadpool Pro is about as perfect as a modern pinball can get.
Yep the pro is a pass for me . I played both the pro & premium at the southern fried gaming expo in Atlanta. The premium was fun also my wife enjoyed playing. We are very casual players. 😁
What games are good at explaining the rules as you play? For any given table, I find myself playing 20 to 30 games before breaking out the rules and reading the whole thing. I kinda like it when the rules are beefy enough that I can't figure out the whole thing without the rules. Granted, I usually play pinball in VR on VPX, so I don't mind playing hundreds of games to master it. As an example, The Lord of the Rings table has a beefy rule set and seems to be quite popular.
I played the Pro version for the first time at Crafted 1979 in Mokena, IL. Have to say, it is very fast! It was my first game played on that machine and I didn't know what I was doing or going for, so I just kept shooting up the ramps and stuff. Ended up getting 150+ million points on my first and only game to date. While the pacing is a hard pass for me, it is very simplistic in design which can easily turn me away. I like games like a White Water, a Whirlwind, Foo Fighters, Godzilla. Those games have tons of story and replay-ability. Venom doesn't for me, so I don't see myself ever getting this one or, frankly, playing it that much overall.
Played Venom for the first time last week. It was a Pro model on location, but I hadn’t paid any attention to anything about the game, so I was going in blind. I found it to be decently fun to play, but yeah, it’s incredibly confusing not knowing the rules. I kept choosing Peter Parker because I didn’t see any major differences between all the options. Little did I know that this was a symptom of the stripped down Pro. When I got home I dug into it a little more and was not surprised to find that it’s the typical stripped-down Pro. Godzilla was the same way for me. Didn’t really enjoy it until I got off of a Pro table and onto Premium/LE - then I really enjoyed it. I can kind of understand the intent behind having fewer mechanicals in a machine for operators, but Stern is taking it too far. It’s especially evident with Venom and it sours me on anything they make.
I played one game on the pro, and right after played 2 on the premium. I thought the pro was fun, didn't know what I was doing but the gameplay was fast/fun and got 300 mil first try. Didn't do as well on the premium but it seemed like the better option. The doppelganger dropping on the field with the 3 shots was cool. And choosing your character puts the ramp in different positions. Don't know the rules enough to know how important that is. Looking forward to play more of both (im lucky that 2 nearby locations are getting the game - one pro, one premium
I enjoy playing the Pro (all i have seen) I think it's a fun shooting combo game.. would I buy one. No... but will play it when I see it .. I have enjoyed playing it so far and enjoy the new approach to code as it's something different.. I did have to do a little research to figure out some of the code but I think it's still a fun game.. I did have to bend the metal piece above the right VUK to ensure it hit the wire form when my buddy put it on location last saturday. Last night at league it reset on us about 8 times so there seems to be a bug in the newest code as well
I don't blame Brian Eddy as the premium and LE look great, but yeah the pro is far too scaled back. I hope this opens people's eyes for $terns BS. It's way too expensive for what you get. Just do what Spooky does. Cut the sculpts and toys but leave the mechs and ramps so gameplay is the same across the board. How hard is that?
Feel the same, Foo Pro vs Venom Pro, night at day. The overly simple fan layout with a couple ramps and a feedback loop. Then again some people also like Rick and Morty but they are very sparse games. I was changing characters and didn't see moving mechs. So stupid thats a Pro only issue. Lazy.
I have not played this game yet to determine if it's fun. One element that I've seen that is missing from some of these current games is the chance to breathe moment. If you are a musician, you'll really understand what I mean. When you're listening to a music melody, there's quite frequently, pauses or rests in the sound where no sound is present. Like talking or phrases within the melody. Those pauses are just as powerful as hearing the melody as well. Take Halloween game for example. I played that a few times and kept getting my ball drained by a caught you looking moment. As I'm watching the FMV screen to see what was going on, the ball got released and went to the side lane then down past my flipper, then drained in the center . If I pressed and held the flipper while continuing to watch the FMV, my ball would've been saved. That was so cheap in my opinion. The breaks in between give you a sense of self accomplishment and a break so you get to see and what to do next. That's why I enjoy the older pinball machines a little bit more. They give you those pauses and tell you what is needed to do next. The current coding is more geared for the younger generation rather of the old like myself. If you're into XBox or Playstation and love how each multiple button does this and that on a controller, current pinball coding is for you. Myself, I'm more of a SNES, Sega Genesis player, with just 6 button tops on the controller, get in and get out of a game kind of guy.
i've been playing this in Winnipeg for the last couple of weeks now. my thoughts, compounded after watching your impressions: - the game could be doing much, much more to explain its rules to new players. it took me a few games to realize that the coloured shots that are available at the start of the game are actually two-piece combos, where the second shot is only shown for a brief time after completing the first. even just knowing that i was expected to make a second of the same colour shot would have helped a lot there! on top of that, the generic combo shot stinger seems to take priority over the "you have advanced towards a major battle" stinger, so completing the shots quickly as intended *makes it harder to tell what completing the combo actually did for the player!* some voice callouts & more illustrative UI (like highlighting which center grid spot was just completed, on the display) would do a lot to help there; i'm sure that's already in the plans for code revisions. it'd be especially nice to see a less disruptive combo show (it might work well as an overlay / popup bubble, as opposed to a 3-second cutaway) - i wasn't too bothered by the Quick Lock instant ball cycling to the flippers, even though at first i was quite concerned by the looks of it when seeing previews, for the same reasons you mention - losing that precious time to Watch The Ball Go Around and generally relax. it's definitely a fast-paced experience overall, but i found that there was enough time to catch my breath during Battle, Multiball, and Mystery presentations (assuming they aren't blown off by flippers.) i suppose this means that the player has to *create chances to take a break for themselves...* - i did experience the websling VUK malfunction a few times, but i found that in normal play, i could lose the second ball safely, and the game would recapture the additional ball if it's sent up the center ramp / successfully makes the VUK later. seems like the code assumes that this is always a possiblity. (notably, the game can always feed this VUK *itself* with the auto-launcher & top diverter! it should be able to take as many attempts as it needs to to self-feed!) the malfunction-into-hopeless-drain from starting Scream seems like an oversight that deserves to be fixed ASAP.
I think the game is great for location. I finally got to play a Pro last night and it's f*cking AWESOME. I don't own a single machine so I play on location and in tournaments. I understand Cary's opinion but for us poor plebes being able to hold over EXP points and leveling up is the coolest thing Stern has done for location pinball since enabling Escape Nublar off the bat by holding the flippers. It's good innovation and makes Insider Connected way more worthwhile. My only issue was the ball staging in the fast locks. During multiball I had NO CLUE how many balls were still in play when they kept staging them over, and over, and over, and over and over again. It's batsh*t insane when adding a ball with Sleeper. I used it as soon as my ball save ended so I wasn't sure if I still had 3 going and added a 4th.. and as they drain and you still see a ball staging out of the corner of your eye I thought I still had two balls going. Nah.
Totally agree on the ball staging. There are so many times I was waiting for another ball during multiball and there were balls moving but it was just the end of my turn! I do agree it is a pretty fun game that people are being a little too hard on.
when it comes to Location play, I feel like you are overestimating a casuals's skill level. A true casual who is going to walk into the bar see venom as a theme and play, is number one probably not even going to use iInsider connected, but even if they do, it will be ages before they defeat knull if they ever do. so I don't think there's going to be an issue for casuals of " I beat the game so now I'm done".
I played the pro. Underwhelming IMO. I don't like complicated code (insert Stern AIQ - the Keith Elwin design couldn't save that game from being a complete miss).
I bought Premium. Fantastic machine. A Pinball school. The one where a normal player can get fantastic shots. But analysts say: it's bad. It's the same as watching only the films that critics like. And they don't like nice things. They like complexity.
I'm not a fan of the game, but what game in life do you play without learning the rules first? I'm not talking pinball, any game. You need to know rules first?
Dude, I was excited to play this because it looked fast. I 100% agree. The shots are fine, but it's just lacking soul. Like, why should I continue to shoot these shots? Nothing has that satisfying, "Man, I just crushed that" feeling. Additionally, I think it reminds me of Star Wars in terms of progression...doesn't do a good job with clarifying where to shoot next. The only difference being is that Star Wars is super fun to shoot and feels like Star Wars. This just feels like Stern had more Marvel franchises to churn out and it just falls flat.
No one reads those damn apron cards. Maybe 1 in 10 have glanced at it. Who's bright idea was to put size 2 black font on a bright yellow background. The colour scheme works on road signs only.
"because I'm not a fucking nerd" lol that had me rolling
I’m not a nerd as he sits in front of a bunch of pinball machines reviewing the new pinball machine
"the pro is soO stripped of... fun"
"Tournament nerd talk... "
🤣
“Because I’m not a fucking nerd!” 😂🤣
I always enjoy watching your videos and really appreciate your honesty and your straightforward, no B.S. approach. I wasn't sure what to make of this title when they announced it since I am not a huge fan of the Venom theme but when the pro model became available to play at a a nearby location I jumped on it! And to my surprise, I was extremely satisfied on how well the game shoots and the shot layout even without the additional mechs. I found it to have a lot of flow similar to Game of Thrones. I do agree with you in regards of animations though, they do not provide enough information for team-ups unless you've read through the ruleset. For the most part the playfield art/text and lights help steer you the rest of the way IF you pay attention to it.
Sidenote: I do believe the VUK mech just needs to be adjusted to get "just right" in order to prevent ball from ending up on playfield instead of wire-form. We had two side x side at the location I play at and one experienced the same issue that you mentioned and the other had no issues whatsoever.
Personally, I found the rules to be fairly simple in comparison to say AIQ or Star Wars or even Mando. I firmly believe that there is plenty of "code emulation" even with having the ability to save your progress to keep players coming back for more. I do understand that the game won't be for "everyone" BUT it really starts to get interesting once you start to explore the "grid awards" and knowing what perks they bring to the table as well as what perks each host bring. I've had the pleasure of defeating the final boss on multiple occasions, choosing multiple paths, BUT the game rewards you for it with more powerful characters and perks which in turn help make it that much easier to get through the next time and the next and so on. All the while further advancing you towards the final Klyntar multi-ball wizard mode.
Now do I think that the pro model has enough in it for the money? Not when you compare it to some of the more recent releases like Foo, Bond or Rush. It does seem a bit stripped down for sure. But I could see from an operator's point of view which means less stuff that can break which in turn means less down time and more money that it will earn. Do I wish they had the same mechs as the premium? Sure...but if I were to own the game personally I would spring for the Premium anyways. I think the game will be a solid earner. Only time will tell I suppose. I'm excited and am looking forward to playing the Premium. Should be able to get some time on it about a week or so.
Thanks again for your thoughts in this video. Mad respect...and well done as usual!!
Received my LE yesterday, Pinwoofer/Polk Audio External Bass, completely dark room volume up!!! Game is absolutely phenomenal!!! Haters going to hate!! It is extremely unique!! and stupid fast!!! Absolutely love it!! Anamations are incredible!!
No hate on premium/LE. The pro is just barren compared to it
It blew my mind how angry the Stern employee got with me when I asked questions about the game in that live feed you showed. The guy gets paid to be on that shows live stream to promote a game so he should have been a bit nicer to the customer when the customer just had reasonable questions. I get he’s the guy who codes it and it’s his baby. The huge suspect in all of this is how much money and time Stern has put into trying to make the general pinball community like this game. I already don’t like it from how confusing and stripped down it is let alone the asking price.
I cant be the only one thats a massive Venom fan and almost ready to preorder this pinball machine until I saw the actual release footage right? When I saw it I was SO disappointed. The whole playfield look like its got absolutely nothing going on. Theres nothing on 2/3 of the playfield. I hate it. Such a shame.
"Because I'm not an F'ing nerd" LMAO
Shocked you don’t like it. I’m loving the pros I got for location. They did take a tremendous amount of tweaking to get it to where I felt I could put them out in the wild. I love the game.
yeah, I was surprised at this as well. Must've been a really bad location. I've played four different pros in four different locations and I would say three out of four played amazingly. The pro was way better than I expected it to be mainly because of how fast it was.
Agreed i love it to be honest
All these old pinballers who can’t wrap their heads around shooting a yellow lit shot and then looking down at the playfield to see there’s now a newly lit brightly flashing yellow shot. Hmm what should I try to shoot for next? These rules are so confusing!
You should do a tutorial video!
Thank you for the honest videos. Please never change!
Thanks, Cary, for the honest (that’s why we love ya 😁) review of the Pro. As a casual, but obsessed player, I want to be able to walk up to the pin, read the apron cards quickly, then start having fun. Even with the pins I now own, I do *not* want to review & memorize 32 pages of rules & strategies in order to advance & improve my score with successive games. I *completely* agree with your statement in the last 10-15 seconds of this video. Pins like AFM remain popular, IMHO, because the rules are simple: hit the required shots to wipe out the Martians from that city, then progress to the next. MM- same thing, but different castles instead of cities. Most of the Pinside Top 10 pins are there because of easy to grasp rules, great game geometry resulting in satisfying, achievable (with practice) shots, & fun call outs. Just my 2 cents…
Got my LE after fixing a bunch of QC issues i was able to figure out the progression stuff and how to generaly play within 5 or 6 games. I like it so far, very fun so far but it needs little touches on code for sure. It needs some fixes for airballs as well
Quck locks are what make the game. Hard to take this review seriously.
Hard to take your comment seriously when I literally specify in the beginning of the video that it's NOT a review. Secondly, the quick locks don't make the game. They merely speed up the game. What Stern advertises is "Choose your host CHANGE the game". That is talking about the morphing ramp that is only in the prem/le versions. The pro (which is what I focus this video on) doesn't have that perk.
I hope that barren playfields on Pro models doesn’t become the new norm.
Went into it blind. Didn’t read the card. Same as you. I feel like you nailed exactly how I felt playing it. I couldn’t figure out why a was choosing characters or what they do to help. The shots are ok but I was good after 5 games and moved on.
Great video. I played the pro in the wild and couldn't agree more with you.
I played the PRO version. I found the rules very simple. It boils down to shooting at accessible targets, giving preference to those that flash and the more lights in the shooting corridor the better. Other details follow the same rule. And I liked that. But you need to play with generous TILT, and this is a detail that differentiates the place you play.
Feel the same about ALL the Pros. Some arcades now just seem to stock their lineup with nothing but Pros. It’s a utter disappointment. I don’t even want to play them. Premium at a minimum for me or pass. Then again I have been spoiled already. I understand that game prices have gotten out of control. But we may have hit the top. You see what happening to games like Toy Story. Sold out of the CEs in an hour but you see them on pinside for 2/3k less. So… choose wisely. And personally you will never see a Pro in my personal collection no matter how cheap they get.
Most players on location no matter how many times they continue likely won't ever beat Knull. It takes really good players a good long time to get that far. I'm really not worried about replayability on location for casuals.
My location has two Pros side by side. I haven't really understood the ruleset and need more time on it. But I'm worried that the deeply complex rulesets in some modern games are starting to pass me by. I still don't understand AIQ to this day and probably never will. Dwight Sullivan is a great designer, but he's getting too carried away with the rulesets and that's what's beginning to turn me off of competitive pinball. I consider myself a nerd/geek and even I think it's too much
Jurassic Park has like 32 pages of rules. No way can I remember that much.
The combo stacking on this game is just so fast... Agreed completely on pro vs premium. I personally really like the quick lock mechanisms, but there is just not enough on the stripped down pro to make it worth the cost.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks; you just made him fucking scream
RE: a ball boucing out of the VUK. Theres actually other bad things that can happen too. Its not uncommon for the game to launch a ball out of the quick lock, while your ball bounces out of the VUK, giving you essientially a free 2 ball multiball. Sounds kind of cool right? It isn't. Ignoring the fact that this is a big no no in tournaments, if you happen to drain one of those 2 balls, your turn ends. If you start any other mode while you have 2 balls out it will also end your ball, similar to the issue with starting video mode. At least if you do happen to shoot a ball into an area where quick locks are at, the game will recover by locking that ball back into the quick lock and you can continue play.
P.s. I'm very happy with it on location! It is simple and reliable and goooood art!
The best Pro model pinball from Stern is Deadpool. There's a reason why that machine is still in demand and in production. The playfield is full, the repeat gameplay is enjoyable, and the classic William's Electronics sound effects are enjoyable and fit the game quite well. Deadpool Pro is about as perfect as a modern pinball can get.
Nothing about Venom grabs me. Especially with the promise of what we'll see just around the corner in 2024, Jaws to say the least.
Jaws pinball is comming ?
Yep the pro is a pass for me . I played both the pro & premium at the southern fried gaming expo in Atlanta. The premium was fun also my wife enjoyed playing. We are very casual players. 😁
What games are good at explaining the rules as you play? For any given table, I find myself playing 20 to 30 games before breaking out the rules and reading the whole thing. I kinda like it when the rules are beefy enough that I can't figure out the whole thing without the rules. Granted, I usually play pinball in VR on VPX, so I don't mind playing hundreds of games to master it. As an example, The Lord of the Rings table has a beefy rule set and seems to be quite popular.
Cary is talking to you Joel !
I KNOW!
Can't wait to see your full review on this game! It's definitely got some good and bad to it.
I played the Pro version for the first time at Crafted 1979 in Mokena, IL. Have to say, it is very fast! It was my first game played on that machine and I didn't know what I was doing or going for, so I just kept shooting up the ramps and stuff. Ended up getting 150+ million points on my first and only game to date.
While the pacing is a hard pass for me, it is very simplistic in design which can easily turn me away. I like games like a White Water, a Whirlwind, Foo Fighters, Godzilla. Those games have tons of story and replay-ability. Venom doesn't for me, so I don't see myself ever getting this one or, frankly, playing it that much overall.
Played Venom for the first time last week. It was a Pro model on location, but I hadn’t paid any attention to anything about the game, so I was going in blind. I found it to be decently fun to play, but yeah, it’s incredibly confusing not knowing the rules. I kept choosing Peter Parker because I didn’t see any major differences between all the options. Little did I know that this was a symptom of the stripped down Pro.
When I got home I dug into it a little more and was not surprised to find that it’s the typical stripped-down Pro. Godzilla was the same way for me. Didn’t really enjoy it until I got off of a Pro table and onto Premium/LE - then I really enjoyed it.
I can kind of understand the intent behind having fewer mechanicals in a machine for operators, but Stern is taking it too far. It’s especially evident with Venom and it sours me on anything they make.
Great video my friend as always. Still waiting for the next Elwin or Borg game...
I played one game on the pro, and right after played 2 on the premium. I thought the pro was fun, didn't know what I was doing but the gameplay was fast/fun and got 300 mil first try.
Didn't do as well on the premium but it seemed like the better option. The doppelganger dropping on the field with the 3 shots was cool. And choosing your character puts the ramp in different positions. Don't know the rules enough to know how important that is.
Looking forward to play more of both (im lucky that 2 nearby locations are getting the game - one pro, one premium
I agree with you. I’ve played the Pro and the LE; the LE was a much more enjoyable experience.
I will be playing Venom and other pinball machines at Vertigo Pinball Today
I hope you enjoy it!
@@CaryHardy The neat thing I like about the gameplay is the ball on both ramps
No matter how good a pro is, the barren playfield is a complete turn off for me. I'll wait on something better.
I enjoy playing the Pro (all i have seen) I think it's a fun shooting combo game.. would I buy one. No... but will play it when I see it .. I have enjoyed playing it so far and enjoy the new approach to code as it's something different.. I did have to do a little research to figure out some of the code but I think it's still a fun game.. I did have to bend the metal piece above the right VUK to ensure it hit the wire form when my buddy put it on location last saturday. Last night at league it reset on us about 8 times so there seems to be a bug in the newest code as well
Congratulations on the best comment in pinball 2023 "Im not a f***ing nerd".
I don't blame Brian Eddy as the premium and LE look great, but yeah the pro is far too scaled back. I hope this opens people's eyes for $terns BS. It's way too expensive for what you get. Just do what Spooky does. Cut the sculpts and toys but leave the mechs and ramps so gameplay is the same across the board. How hard is that?
Easy code to figure out . Hit the yellow blue and white 3 lights twice each , battle the mini bosses after level 10 . Then beat knull . Easy .
Feel the same, Foo Pro vs Venom Pro, night at day. The overly simple fan layout with a couple ramps and a feedback loop. Then again some people also like Rick and Morty but they are very sparse games. I was changing characters and didn't see moving mechs. So stupid thats a Pro only issue. Lazy.
I have not played this game yet to determine if it's fun. One element that I've seen that is missing from some of these current games is the chance to breathe moment. If you are a musician, you'll really understand what I mean. When you're listening to a music melody, there's quite frequently, pauses or rests in the sound where no sound is present. Like talking or phrases within the melody. Those pauses are just as powerful as hearing the melody as well. Take Halloween game for example. I played that a few times and kept getting my ball drained by a caught you looking moment. As I'm watching the FMV screen to see what was going on, the ball got released and went to the side lane then down past my flipper, then drained in the center . If I pressed and held the flipper while continuing to watch the FMV, my ball would've been saved. That was so cheap in my opinion. The breaks in between give you a sense of self accomplishment and a break so you get to see and what to do next. That's why I enjoy the older pinball machines a little bit more. They give you those pauses and tell you what is needed to do next. The current coding is more geared for the younger generation rather of the old like myself. If you're into XBox or Playstation and love how each multiple button does this and that on a controller, current pinball coding is for you. Myself, I'm more of a SNES, Sega Genesis player, with just 6 button tops on the controller, get in and get out of a game kind of guy.
there is plenty of breathing moments in this game.
It’s on location at a few local spots and I have zero urge to play it.
i've been playing this in Winnipeg for the last couple of weeks now. my thoughts, compounded after watching your impressions:
- the game could be doing much, much more to explain its rules to new players. it took me a few games to realize that the coloured shots that are available at the start of the game are actually two-piece combos, where the second shot is only shown for a brief time after completing the first. even just knowing that i was expected to make a second of the same colour shot would have helped a lot there! on top of that, the generic combo shot stinger seems to take priority over the "you have advanced towards a major battle" stinger, so completing the shots quickly as intended *makes it harder to tell what completing the combo actually did for the player!* some voice callouts & more illustrative UI (like highlighting which center grid spot was just completed, on the display) would do a lot to help there; i'm sure that's already in the plans for code revisions. it'd be especially nice to see a less disruptive combo show (it might work well as an overlay / popup bubble, as opposed to a 3-second cutaway)
- i wasn't too bothered by the Quick Lock instant ball cycling to the flippers, even though at first i was quite concerned by the looks of it when seeing previews, for the same reasons you mention - losing that precious time to Watch The Ball Go Around and generally relax. it's definitely a fast-paced experience overall, but i found that there was enough time to catch my breath during Battle, Multiball, and Mystery presentations (assuming they aren't blown off by flippers.) i suppose this means that the player has to *create chances to take a break for themselves...*
- i did experience the websling VUK malfunction a few times, but i found that in normal play, i could lose the second ball safely, and the game would recapture the additional ball if it's sent up the center ramp / successfully makes the VUK later. seems like the code assumes that this is always a possiblity. (notably, the game can always feed this VUK *itself* with the auto-launcher & top diverter! it should be able to take as many attempts as it needs to to self-feed!) the malfunction-into-hopeless-drain from starting Scream seems like an oversight that deserves to be fixed ASAP.
Well said Cary
The rules seem very simple to me. Each to their own.
Go get them Cary….. tell it like it is…….
I think the game is great for location. I finally got to play a Pro last night and it's f*cking AWESOME. I don't own a single machine so I play on location and in tournaments. I understand Cary's opinion but for us poor plebes being able to hold over EXP points and leveling up is the coolest thing Stern has done for location pinball since enabling Escape Nublar off the bat by holding the flippers. It's good innovation and makes Insider Connected way more worthwhile.
My only issue was the ball staging in the fast locks. During multiball I had NO CLUE how many balls were still in play when they kept staging them over, and over, and over, and over and over again. It's batsh*t insane when adding a ball with Sleeper. I used it as soon as my ball save ended so I wasn't sure if I still had 3 going and added a 4th.. and as they drain and you still see a ball staging out of the corner of your eye I thought I still had two balls going. Nah.
Totally agree on the ball staging. There are so many times I was waiting for another ball during multiball and there were balls moving but it was just the end of my turn! I do agree it is a pretty fun game that people are being a little too hard on.
when it comes to Location play, I feel like you are overestimating a casuals's skill level. A true casual who is going to walk into the bar see venom as a theme and play, is number one probably not even going to use iInsider connected, but even if they do, it will be ages before they defeat knull if they ever do. so I don't think there's going to be an issue for casuals of " I beat the game so now I'm done".
I played the pro. Underwhelming IMO. I don't like complicated code (insert Stern AIQ - the Keith Elwin design couldn't save that game from being a complete miss).
I played it 4 times. I like it!
But Cary, didn't you see how FAST the game was??? Oh sorry, too soon?
Well I was never excited for this release since it's announcements. To me it's just a money grab and really not a good one at that.
I bought Premium. Fantastic machine. A Pinball school. The one where a normal player can get fantastic shots. But analysts say: it's bad. It's the same as watching only the films that critics like. And they don't like nice things. They like complexity.
"Worst bang for buck pro" Swords of rage and Led Zeppelin smiling in the corner 😂
they were cheaper than today though...
@@CaryHardy Very true.
I'm not a fan of the game, but what game in life do you play without learning the rules first? I'm not talking pinball, any game. You need to know rules first?
Avengers infinity quest was way worse stepping up to and having no idea what is going on
I'm looking at you Cary ;) Out of a 2 hour stream you haddddddd to pull a clip of me immediately draining.
it was hard to find a good clip where you weren't draining...
That's fair.@@CaryHardy
I’ve played both and there is just too much taken away from with the pro. Jurassic Park, no problem, Venom, Stern went too far.
Complely agree. Pro was boring. Premium was lots of fun. The pro felt empty.
Entertaining..
Lol moments
Pro looks like a home pin. So stripped down. Not worth the money at all IMO. Even the premium is way over priced. Thanks for another awesome video
Dude, I was excited to play this because it looked fast. I 100% agree. The shots are fine, but it's just lacking soul. Like, why should I continue to shoot these shots? Nothing has that satisfying, "Man, I just crushed that" feeling. Additionally, I think it reminds me of Star Wars in terms of progression...doesn't do a good job with clarifying where to shoot next. The only difference being is that Star Wars is super fun to shoot and feels like Star Wars. This just feels like Stern had more Marvel franchises to churn out and it just falls flat.
No one reads those damn apron cards. Maybe 1 in 10 have glanced at it. Who's bright idea was to put size 2 black font on a bright yellow background. The colour scheme works on road signs only.
Game sucks dude.
Venom sucked. Foo is waaaay better. Rush is waaay better.
The fast locks are lame, they do absolutely nothing for me. Nothing else in this game. I can't imagine dropping MSRP on this barren game.
I played Venom at our local pinhall - the pro model - it sucks. I would not buy it and I won't be playing it anymore. There are better pins to play.
So what your saying your gonna buy it LOL Personally DO NOT LIKE IT ONE BIT! If I want to play a RPG Ill play Final Fan!
Have you watched the video he doesn't like it!
@@marklopez2004 thanks Mr obvious lol no shitbim busting his ass lol