Hey Nathan, I really enjoy your videos! They're always so detailed, especially your review of the Creality K2 Plus-so much useful info! I've had the chance to try that machine too; while it has some challenges with weight and material management, I totally get why you still like it. Each machine has its own unique charm. Lately, I've been getting more interested in FLSUN's Delta printers. The design of their new s1 Pro is amazing, and watching it print feels like a high-tech mechanical dance. I'm looking forward to seeing your in-depth review of it, which will help me decide whether to buy one. Keep up the great work!
Go to my channel videos, go to oldest videos. Also I used to work on military robots that can burst through a wall with guns and explosives, so you better watch what you say 🤖
great breakdown of the K2 Plus Nathan,it’s always refreshing to hear an honest take quirks and all,the Z banding issue is something i’ve noticed on a few printers too, especially with larger prints, your insights on filament waste are spot on, it’s definitely a good reminder to plan prints more carefully to save on materials,for larger projects, I sometimes use a Flsun V400, its speed is a game changer for tall models or bulk prints, while it can’t handle multi material jobs like the K2 Plus, it’s still a solid choice for scaling up without losing too much time overall , great review as always keep up the awesome work
I agree, the only real concern is the banding. I didn't notice it on most of my prints (amongus figures ~ 30mm tall), it wouldn't show up on the flat plates and hueforge prints I was making, and even on the giant test print made with blue PLA that filled the whole print volume, it wasn't very noticable, nor was it noticable on the benchies. But on the mask print I made, it was visible on it and the purge block. I figure it has something to do with the construction of the Z axis. That same layout is used on tons of printers without much issue. Could be the size of the bed and the speed and accelerations that it is hitting, or just slop in the bearings. The last thing that could really throw a wrench into the works is the CFS system. The filament cutter, varying tension on the filament during CFS feeding, the hotend and nozzle pushing up against the brush in the back of the printer, that all has the chance to add some variability to the process. I still think it's just a Z axis issue though, but we'll have to see if someone with more analytical skills can figure it out. In terms of a Creality launch, having just one issue that only causes cosmetic imperfections and isn't a reliability concern is pretty good.
It isn't that I'm a bambu fanboy. I run a business, I really don't care the brand. All I care about is reliability, serviceability and performance. I am extremely cautious about this machine because of crealitys history the past few years. I need to see how these machines perform over a few thousand hours and I need to see creality really turn around how they have supported their hardware in the past before I'm willing to give them another chance. All the issues you mentioned in this video are really non issues as far as a print business is concerned. The banding issue is a bit of a concern and likely easily fixable but it honestly should be resolved at the factory. For now I'll be watching to see what Bambu's next generation printer is before I make any decisions on what the next go to for me is. Right now the P1S remains my work horse printers because the additional features of the X1C/X1E don't justify the extra cost for me and creality has some things to prove before I'm willing to give them another shot. Honestly I'm more likely to go back to Prusa when the XL starts getting dialed in and drops to a more reasonable price than anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see creality finally start showing signs of being competitive again, I'm not anti creality. I just can't afford to put up with another K1 debacle. My printers run constantly and once I'm done with the initial setup the only "fiddling" I want to be dealing with is the regular maintenance. That said I did finally bite the bullet and give the e3d obxidian high flow nozzle a shot despite my aversion to paying $75+ for a single nozzle. It shaved over an hour off my most common print job and that is a massive improvement, so I grudgingly bought one for all my printers (I'm cheap, I can't help it). I should also mention I print a large volume of custom ID card holders and light boxes so banding is a pretty big deal to me. I need those walls smooth, otherwise I'm adding post production labor I don't want to add. A little sanding on a few objects isn't a big deal, a little sanding on 2000 of them is a big deal.
Exactly this. I do not run a business. 3D printing is a hobby. I never heard of any of these brands. I started doing my research and ended up with Bambu. Zero regrets. People love Bambu because they just work. I have now had my P1s a year and it was my first printer. I it runs pretty much 24/7 and I have never had a single issue with it. That is impressive.
@@AndrewLeathers yup but of my printers my Ender 3 S1 Pro is the worst, and that's after days of calibration and very low printing speed. With good filament and after being dialed in.
@@radicalbyte So weird, my S1 Pro actually has less Z-banding than my K1 Max. All I did was put a different cooling duct on it and use a Rpi with Klipper. I don't use it a lot though as it prints much slower than the K1 Max.
@@BlackDragonBE Damn. I've relegated mine to the shed for now (due to speed/quality) but if I get around to setting up a print farm I'll probably just let it chug on doing easy or forgiving prints.
I think one of your lead screws might be bent, or not perfectly centered at either end, either because of the bearing stabilizers at the top of the screw isn't perfectly aligned or the coupler at the bottom isn't centered. If the z-banding was from torque, then every layer would be affected. There could also be a defect with one of the brass nuts.
Not sure, since it is repetitive, if what he says is actually true. As I pause the video, and the repetion is every 4 mm, this mean on each rotation the Z has moved 4 mm, however: K2 Plus Z-axis architecture: two screws + four optical axis (thicker) + 2 Z motor. So what he says is impossibly related to the Z driving system. The object he holds is overextruded on the corners, so it has probably been printed at a very high speed, and the acceleration/deceleration at the corners is not fine tuned. one has nothing to do with the other though. Mine is arriving soon, I will see if that is an issue (maybe it has to do with the spool, maybe something completely different, but not the Z architecture)
We'll see how big the flood of customer complaints is. If they can manage to do a proper launch with this, and put out printers with as good of QC as the printer they sent me, it will be a huge success.
I know what you mean. I got a CR10 Smart and I maintain that without manual leveling and non functional auto leveling that printer was not fit for purpose. It's just a big expensive paperweight. So seeing praise for the K2 has me skeptical. Always wait 6 months after a printer comes out to see if it's really worth it.
Regarding "poop filament waste" besides using the purge waste as infill or support (assuming the same/acceptable filament type) I wish there was a way to add something akin to a 'bonus piece'. You set up a repository of various things you would like AND you don't care about the aesthetic (or you were going to paint anyways). And assign a numerical value of how many you would like. Clips, clamps, bearings, table top minis, stands, jigs, lures, internal mechanisms that no one sees, etc. When whatever you are printing gets sliced and calculates the purge it matches that with one (or more) of the things in your "bonus piece" repository. Of course some time will be added to take into account the tool path though so there is a tradeoff. I would just like that option to use more filament or time.
I have many Creality printer. Had other brands as well. I think the negativity from reality besides comes from the price point being affordable for so many people that beginners get it and don’t know what they’re doing.
Yeah, they really are victims of their own success. They released the cheapest most accessible printer at a time when printers kind of sucked. It will take some work to rebrand into the expensive high quality brand, like Bambu has done
@@nekrosoft13 nahh, they just do such a poor job at copying and really don't care about their customers. In the end they only copy others and they can't even get that right.....
the z banding is almost a deal breaker for me. i spent so long trying to rid of it on my cr10. split between building a large core xy with enclosure for abs/asa vs being lazy and just getting a machine that already can do what I'm after. the ams is just a bonus for me, do to the waste amount I would only ever use it for lithophanes and hueforge. maybe super rare doing something like you did with a the big batch of sus dudes.
@SteveBennet500 you are completely right. It is a deal breaker. I was really excited at the thought of an "off the shelf" that can do anything I want. But end of the day I want a printer that can stack layers reliably. Watching different reviews of the k2 plus they all have z banding and they are all at different intervals aswell.
Something i just thought about... my dad bought me a k2 combo for christmas. Yes, i know christmas gifts are supposed to be surprises. Anyways, I've watched a lot of videos and the poop seems to be a common complaint. When accessing the printer settings, is that something where you can go in and fine tune the amount of extrusion during fil change or would it not be worth the headache?
you said this printer only has 2 screws for the z but it has 4, when you say two do you mean in the position their in, like even with 4 screws it's still a 2 screw configuration
How can you show the purge tower as your example of z banding. Of course it will look like that... It's the purge tower. Show is an actual print the has banding. Did you dial in you filament? Did you do your flow rates? Seems like your the only one completing about z banding with the k2p. Probably user error.
I am working on an updated video with z banding tests. According to people on the internet, the z lines were slicer related and only show up on multicolor prints. Will have another video out showing single color Z banding performance to see if the base mechanism is good for the Z axis. Bambu Fanboys will not be happy with the results.
Definitely want to see this. I was in the discount group (still waiting on my machine) like to see if it's a real issue or if it's just people being super picky about everything and not wanting it to be better than Bambu systems. I don't care about printer brands, I use every type of printer if it works and has spec's I need that point in time.
can the cfs detect lower than 15% relative humidity? The sensor in the space pi was limited to that. It also wouldn't start heating if ambient temp was below 15c, which is ironic for a heater
Not sure, I just ignore the numbers on the front. I wouldn't be able to do anything about it even if it were too moist, and it doesn't have a build-in heater. Maybe they will bring that in a CFS pro with 6 slots and a heater??!
I keep seeing people say the Space Pi can't go below 15% RH, but that's not true. I've gotten mine to go down to 13%. The caveat is that you have to open the lid a little (there are spacers you can print). It's possible any excess moisture doesn't escape, so "burping" it allows the RH to go lower. I discovered it really works by accident when I wanted to check something... I opened the lid and almost immediately the RH dropped from 15% to 14%.
@@chandrizzle yes I've tried that. it seems you got lucky. my screen is also very non responsive, sometimes you have to push a button 30 times and so hard that it warps the screen and moves the whole unit. i've come to learn through experience that there is no quality control with their products and the components used can vary greatly between units.
Is it really z-band? This deffect usually has repeated nature, like every 10mm you can see line, this more looks like inconsistent print, it could do something with extruder, uneven flow, or maybe belts
@@NathanBuildsRobots Haha, nah, I couldn't care less about a brand or another. All I care about is products that deliver on their claims, and understanding their pros / cons. The only fans you should care about are the ones you once were 'upgrading' onto noisy and poorly designed printers with the help of tin snips to make big holes in their panels 😂
I noticed this too, tbh it seems like devolving psychologically. Hope hes ok, would love to see a return to facts and observations and get past this weird creality/bambu love/hate phase.
Have you tried loosening the screws attaching the lead screw "nut" to the bed? It'll give a bit of wiggle room to prevent Z Binding... I found that to be the Issue on my Ender 3 that I had been chasing for months
Hi Nathan. Your channel has been a great prerequisite for folks new to 3d printing. Statues and mini figure printing is a big component to the popularity of FDM printing. Resin printing is dangerous and requires a lot of consumables. The closest we can get with FDM is .06L using a .2 nozzle. Can you speak about FDM resolution capabilities coming closer to resin? How small and smooth can we expect from FDM and, is there room for improvement with FDM?
Besides Z-Band it seems have under extrusion too. And what yu think about all electronic boards in the hot portion of printer ? Wont it cause thermal fatigue and damages to the boards in a long term ?
Depends, no way to know without looking up datasheets of all the parts and doing testing. I’ve ran some GF ABS with the chamber heater on and didn’t have any issues
@@kaivanderbijl4272 Currently no "AMS" system does, Really? "Bambu TPU for AMS redefines your TPU printing experience with enhanced performance and seamless AMS integration"
95A can not pass the filament detection, 95A is the softest you will be able to print. I print down to 60A on a very slow printer with the special bondtech shortnozzle mosquito, which costs as much as the printer.
This video was much better. It could have been a little more negative though. It did not quite satiate my bambu fanboy hunger for shading other printers. The AMS also makes quite a lot of noise when it changes between filaments. Is the noise from the CFS someting which continues during printing or is it also mainly when it swaps filaments? As a bambu fanboy I simply must know.
My apologies, I will be more negative in my next video. I hope this will make the Bambu Fanboys return, they are so much fun! It's basically an AMS clone, it burps every 5-10 seconds to load a little more filament into the system.
Why don't they just change the filament a while before the color change? They could use some of the purge on the actual print, should be able to make minimal amount of print poop that way
I do not think I be doing a lot of color printing, I got this printer for size of the plate and fact you can load the CFS with PLA for print and PETG for the supports making a clean print once the supports are removed? I never tired that so do not know it that will actually work? like to see a video on that. I wonder if the nose on the CFS can be reduced by put in bearings or grease on the gears
What about VFA? They finally get rid of it? I gave up on my K1 Max and bought X1 Carbon Combo and I am never going back, even though the bed is small but for the quality of my prints - I can live with it.
Does the bed fall when you power off the printer? Cause if not it could be an indication of some resistance causing banding. I saw other vids where the bed just falls to the bottom when powered off on the k2 plus
I am new to 3D printing and don’t have one yet. Was looking at these during Christmas to see if there are any good deals. I see this one runs for about 1500 and the Bambu equivalent runs for about 1000 on sale right now. Is the Bambu a better one to get?
It depends on what you need, the bambu has slightly better print quality, the K2 Plus is significantly larger. Also you seem to be citing the price for the Bambu printer without a multicolor unit. The K2 Plus without the multicolor unit is $1200
For a beginner, the Bambu P1S is a better bet than the X1C, and way better than the Creality. For one thing, it's proven. For another, the user experience is very polished compared to other printers. Also, half the price of the K2 for 95% of the practical functionality. Materials requiring >300C nozzle temperatures and heated chambers are very edge case and seldom worth consideration for a hobbyist. Also not nothing is that the K2's production is backed up so it'll be awhile before they can ship one out to you. Bambu will show up in a week. If you get a P1S combo for $749 and decide you really like 3D printing and need to print more biggerer, the K2 should be better stocked a few months from now.
@@Immolate62 Thank you for the recommendation. Very much appreciated. I don't have specific projects in mind, but would use on for making Halloween projects, couplers for dust collector hose adapters, and items sort of similar. Perhaps after I get one I will find more uses for one. But it sounds like the P1S is good one to start with.
That z banding is really quite bad. I'd be interested in seeing an Orca VFA test on shiny PETG if you have time. If they have reduced VFA significantly, it would be interesting to analyze how they did it. It's the thing that bugs me most about my otherwise great P1S. It appears to come from the belt/pulley arrangement, possibly the toothed belts running over smooth idlers.
Yes, this printer has very little VFA, but instead you get horizontal banding. You're just trading artifacts in one direction for another. But it really is not that big of a deal on the functional parts I made. At least it prints reliably!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Sure, but I'd argue that the cause of the z banding likely isn't a result of them fixing the VFA. I feel like they are probably unrelated, and it didn't have to be one or the other (unless you know otherwise, happy to be proven wrong) It takes away from what could be a great printer if they have fixed the company's issues with slicer/QA/reliability of previous releases, and looks bad enough to deter some people who prioritize print aesthetics.
@@oldman1944 no i completely agree. Its just that one company solved one, the other company solved the other. Now we just need one printer that fixes both issues for perfect quality.
@@oldman1944 Any agreed, it could cause some people to look at other options. I don't really care about asthetics of my prints so i'm still super happy with the machine despite the Z banding, which seems like the last bug that Creality needs to fix on an otherwise perfect machine
@@NathanBuildsRobots Well for me it unfortunately is. I am currently undecided between a Qidi4 in march when the bugs will be ironed out (the worst are fixed already) and this thing and if I have to shell out 1.5k for a printer it better should not have such issues 😕 Not everyone gets this printer for free and for many people dumping down 1.5k for a 3d printer is a ton of money!
I'm not a Creality hater or Bambu lab fanboy, is just that Bambus are better printers. You didn't mentioned the awful multicolour print quality of the K2.
Unfortunately, my wife is a FlashForge fangirl so any dabbling in multi-color printing will probably be with FlashForge's new ad5x. She still uses the Finder I bought her 2018 quite frequently and it just won't die. It's like a snail that won't stop coming for me.
I guess the Voron 2.4 or the Voron Trident with their 4 or 3 linear rails driven by an equal number of belts or screws wouldn't have this Z banding issue.
For me it's definetly still the price. Which is kinda ironic since the "race to the bottom" with all those Ender 3 variants gave the Creality brand such a negative touch. But to be realistic and consumer friendly here: for most people and prints a "medium" print volume like from a K1c is enough. For bigger stuff a Sovol SV08 would also do everything it should. Combine any one of them with that CFS and you would still have money for filament left. So it definitely is an enthusiast machine. But most people simply do not have to spend more than those 500 (K1c) or 600 (SV08) bucks on a printer.
Thanks for all the info Nathan. Mine should be here next month. I do have another question for you on the Creality store main page. It has 4. CFS units what needs to be dine to be able to run those and have them on the side instead of on the top
I'm not 100% sure. They should come with longer cables and bowden tubes. The filament buffer has room for all 4 bowden tubes, so that part should be pretty straightforward. There is a video of someone setting up 2, on the creality behind the scenes channel. But I'm sure it will be easy enough to figure out.
Z-banding with a twin motor bed is from the steppers not being exactly perfect and/or being out of phase. Same slight ripple you get from cheap motors/steppers you see in the x/y. I had that problem with my Sermoon D1, I simply tied them together with a belt and put them in phase when I tightened the timing gears. Later just unplugged one, since I noticed it made no difference in operation 😅
You could have a point, if they are not 100% in sync, they start to work against each other, and then indeed e repetitive loss of step of one of the motors, could be the issue BUT... these are not stepper motors, they are servo motors... servo's tend to be more in sync. with a current measuring system maybe you could detect if there was a difference. So if there is no difference: it is not that, what you are saying.
ALL single nozzle MMU printers waste a TON of filament. The only way to avoid this is to have multiple tool heads (like the Prusa XL), but these are expensive printers. For handling just two or three filaments, the mulit tool head machines might be on par cost wise with some single nozzle MMU systems, since the MMU unit adds quite a bit of complexity. I am thinking about the possibility of a 'printers for ants" Micron+ with 2-4 toolheads.
Not necessarily, the ERCF for instance can waste next to nothing. (I think it was Made With Layers that got purge down to no poop and a single hollow purge tower with his unit with no fine tuning) It really depends on how well tuned it is. These systems (as I understand it) don't retract THEN cut THEN retract, they just cut, retract, and purge the waste. The ERCF retracts the filament so that it only needs to cut away the absolute tip, which reduces waste dramatically.
Yes the Prusa definitely has cornered the professional market by going the multi head way. If I had a professional print studio I probably would not even consider any of those printers and go straight for the Prusa for multi color prints, but for private persons the Prusa is way too expensive!
@@KennethScharf Yeah, I'm aware, read what I actually said. With it properly tuned for retraction you can avoid cutting off more than even a few mms of filament resulting in so little waste a single small hollow purge tower can clear it all. We're talking a literal fraction of a fraction of the waste of the other MMU systems. If your complaint is literally that there is *_any_* waste at all, just stop 3D printing. There is always *_some_* waste, the question is how much, and with a well tuned ERCF you can get next to 0.
@@felixjohnson3874 I suppose if all the stars align and you have filament cutters in the path, and you do a cool down of the hot end so you can do a cold pull to help clean out the hot end before changing filament, you can avoid a bit of hot end purging. Also if you can have the filament change happen on the inside of your prints so you can't see where it happens you can hid a bit of color blend. I wonder if anyone recycles their poops and towers into new filament for test prints?
I'm waiting for a costed down tool changer. I know quite a few manufacturers are prototyping such systems and they're going to certainly be more expensive than an ams\cfs\mmu approach because you need x full tool heads, but all of this waste and added mechanical systems that WILL wear out and require maintenance at some point, I think toolchangers are the future. Also way less waste. Further, there's nothing that says you couldn't connect a mmu to a tool changer if you wanted as well if you needed occasional access to a ton of colors.
A simple test for Z-Banding is to just remove the Z-Axis Top Cap Bearing on the Lead Screw (if it has them),,, it will clearly show if your Lead Screws are Bent by just moving the Printer Bed up or down 100mm and watch to see how much the Lead Screws wobbles around -/ 2 Point Constraint Systems is the worst idea in history of Bad ideas for 3d Printers Z-Axis-
there are other machines that use 2 rods like Voxelab Aries / Flashforge Finder 3, which uses cylinder linear bearings. the rods are both on one side, and it's possible that because the bed itself is lightweight Z banding isn't an issue (that I've noticed). Being every 4cm or so can mean it has to do with the leadscrew (does it have a leadscrew? or whatever it is). or maybe it can be a reflex of the bed itself, sort of springing back since it has 2 points not 3 or 4. if only they made it more like the Voron / Sovol SV08 where the bed is stationary.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Things can be attached to the flying gantry itself like nozzle cleaners, extra tool heads, or dockable z-probes. The docked item is then stationary relative to the gantries z-height and the tool head only needs to move in the X and Y axis.
For printers in my price range which are the K1 And the A1 Combo i have to say the k1 takes the cake. Not just the printer but the slicer and ability to do everything on mobile. Also i feel bambu is very limiting. BUT i truly love my A1 i just wouldnt use it for 1 color.
It would hurt the affiliate link . Or he didn't notice it, or understand the importance if it. But glad @NathanBuildsRobots pointed it out clearly here. That quality is total crap and I feel nobody (who has a free machine) talks about it .
It isn’t very noticeable on most prints. Look at my previous videos with sample prints. It wasn’t enough of an issue to be worth bringing up for 95% of the prints I did
@@NathanBuildsRobots response time is on point Nathan! Agreed, there is so much going on with the machine, it's easy to overlook or simply not understand it's importance. Until after. It's all 20/20 in hindsight 😉
One should take into account that the part he showed us was a prime tower, which is not printed with any quality in mind (different settings from regular print).
@@TNX255 oh. Crap. I didn't know that. Yea of coarse the prime tower will usually be awful. That's fair. Some other print quality photos also showed some banding on normal printed objects though. So I jumped to conclusions here too soon.
Nathan I've never seen you say so much good things about a printer until this one😂 It doesn't look like it punches with features and I do like it. But for me personally, 1499 for a creality printer is just no no and I'm surprised you didn't mention that at all. I can get like, 5 K1's for that amount of money?
@NathanBuildsRobots oh no I have the original K1 and it had horrible extruder. You know that better than anybody. It was NOT plug and print at all. Maybe that's the reason there is no way I would pay 1499 for a creality machine🤣
Z banding is caused by irregularity in the quality of the leadscrews. I have a Qidi Q1 Pro that uses the same 2 screw 4 rod setup and it has no Z banding issues. 3 leadscrews would be preferred I agree but you'll still have z banding if they aren't (close to) perfectly manufactured.
@@NathanBuildsRobots it wasnt really blind faith, i could always resell it within two days as the printer is brand new. Trow it on a local market place for 100 more and there will be someone that comes and buys it. Its still not available, allot of resellers are still waiting for it.
Liked the video even though I'm a Bambu Labs fanboy. I think you glossed over the z-banding issue a bit. Of all the detractors, that is the only one that matters. I don't have that issue with my K1 Max so what's up, Creality? Fix it.
It's not as bad as it looked on camera, this video I shot with the rear facing camera on my phone which applies a lot of digital image sharpening. I'll do a follow up, i'm printing out a bunch of Z banding test prints and will shoot it on my main camera that has the best 4k image quality
@NathanBuildsRobots Great info, as always. I've read some of your other replies to comments re: z-banding. I have a question as I'm considering going for the 2CMS K2+ combo (likely Monday), by far my biggest cost printer purchase. I do mostly production so I'm looking for a workhorse. I've struggled/learned some on a few printers over the years lol still a lil nervous about going for it. The Z banding is concerning, I have my, much simpler, ender 3v2S1CR-6Diamondback mashups that do much better quality than that. Does slower print speed have any effect on that? I'm really curious. Could you run a couple smaller comparison prints and leave feedback here or post a short? Thank you kindly all the same. Take care.
What sort of prints do you plan on running? I’d say on anything under 50mm (smaller than a benchy) it’d be hard to notice the z banding. The best closeup I have of print quality is right here, switch to 4k to get the best look. I don’t have a whole lot of good closeups. I do think it’s the biggest issue it has in terms of print quality, but on most of my prints it wasn’t very noticeable. It’s almost completely lacking VFAs, which most printers struggle with to some degree, so seeing smooth lines in that regard is pretty nice th-cam.com/video/WjdeQoY0sdo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mX4Ys9Wp7E1oQnjt&t=1066
Also in the hueforge prints and panels I was printing, I didn’t notice them at all. It just depends on what you’re printing wether they will show up or be a nuisance
So the option now is a cheaper Qidi 4 which you have to fix yourself in some aspects but produfes amazing prints and the more expensive creality which has the z-banding 😞 Again Creality, it will be interesting how this printer will behave over time. My experience is that Creality printers degrade over time and the maintenance effort rises for good results!
It's espeically bad under harsh lighting and with a low quality camera that applies a lot of digital sharpening. In real life it is much less noticable
I’ve been on the fence for a while on whether or not to subscribe to your channel. Seeing this constant “for the Bambu fan boys” rhetoric is quite unbefitting of someone who wants to be the definitive source of 3D-Printing News and sort of disrespectful. When I first jumped into 3D printing, all of my machines were Enders and CR-10’s. Even when I researched and knew they had crappy QC. They taught me a lot, but mainly that I hate leveling beds. Seriously screw that. I pulled the trigger on a X1C - making it my first CoreXY purchase. I was scared that it would be like my Creality machines. I was wrong. The X1C and the stock profiles Bambu offers for their brand filament is miles ahead of Creality. My K1 Max never lays the first layer down properly. Ever. It has horrible VFA issues too. The support removal on the K1 Max is also such a hassle. Half the time my supports bond to the darn print. I’ve done everything under the sun to try and improve that. No dice. I too, need a bigger machine to print parts, so I pulled the trigger on the K2 Plus. You need to remember that Creality has always released a new machine with slight improvements over the last. Almost like they’re a car manufacturer. Why can’t they release a machine thats near complete like the X1C? I know it has its fair share of issues, but it’s constantly printing all day every day with zero issues. It prints the same consistent print quality no matter what. You really can’t blame people for knocking Creality. They created this issue for themselves. I guess when the K2 Plus Max comes out, they’ll use 3 rods instead of two! 🤦 Also - When are you going to tell the consumer that the bed on the K2 Plus falls down when the machine is powered off? I believe I have watched every video that you cover the K2 on and you still haven’t touched on this. Hmmm.
I have 100% mentioned the bed falling bit it in a video. I'm confused why people think this matters though? I powered it off once and it rehomed at the bottom and resumed printing.
From the guy that brought you "Carbon fibres in filaments will give you health problems". I do wonder how Bambu hurt your feelings. Is it because they wouldnt match the amount creality pay you to peddle their crap?
I will give you credit where it is due. In any business, you look for the niche and then try to capitalize on the social disruption it can create. Negativity sells which is also a simple business model that has entered the social marketplace. Taking on Bambu and their fans creates clickbait. This a niche no one is exploiting as a business model - your main manufacturer will love you and put money/ product in your pocket. Almost a genius strategy - just watch your inbox for any messages that may come form “yadda yadda” and associates. Getting tied up in any kind of legality be it contrived or actual merit-based - will have the possibility of breaking any piggy bank you can put aside. Not a fanboy of any company - just a simple guy looking to research all there is to learn about 3D and I have enjoyed your take on some printers. ( But I did just buy the Black Friday Bambu P1S combo - as my first printer - luck be with me!)
You did a good choice. Reliable and great ecosystem. This guy just loves to exploit the manufactured hate. All his responses here are childish and clickbaity. I been printing since 2014, and so far the piece of mind, customer support , and reliability of Bambu are unmatched.
@@aarrodrias most that research find out. I have found over 20 recent reviews- and all serious ones - are Bambu leaning strongly - but if Qidi 4 gets the electrical problems under control - they may be soon the next hero out of a closet for printing
Even have a bot account dedicated to spamming the first comment with how you’re the definitive news source? Gosh dude you’ve been conveying yourself as a totally immature person lately.
Oh no, I'll wait for the new Bambu. You'll see, Bambu will always be 2 steps ahead of the others. Everyone else is trying to create copies, but it looks extremely ridiculous. And yes, I'm not a fan, I just choose only the best. I'm tired of constantly improving and eliminating the shortcomings of other printers, such as Creality. I just print on Bambu and it's cool.
lol 😂 bambu fanboy detected. That is a purge block, it is printed at high speed with 0 attention to quality Look at some of the other sample prints in my other vids
That you should print multi colour parts not under 0.2mm and the print quality in multi colour is worse than the A1 and the input shaping, that is still bad and people still have VFA and there already fixes from the community? Sorry, that was not the Bambu Lab Killer. Let's see how the X2 will change the market again. Bet even the A2 will have better print quality.
You can load 3rd party filament, you just assign the material and color in the touchscreen manually. You have to assign these before printing, otherwise it won't work. I assume this is to make sure it uses the correct purge/load settings when starting up a print. (don't want to have it try to load nylon at PLA temps, so it needs to know what is in there)
Now I‘m concerned, as I pre-ordered already. At th-cam.com/video/EIS2RmTIvBA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zS3cCL0b95ah16na&t=128 the z-banding isn‘t nice, but even the layer stacking does not look nice. Really not nice. 😕
I thought reddit was the top spot on beating memes to absolute death. Take a bow 3d printing community. You did it I officially hate the word poop now. Didn't think it was possible so congrats.
BaMbUs ArE pErFeCt! I wish they'd stop. You cannont go on a printing forum talking about an issue without someone chiming in "You should've bought a Bambu" as if they are problem free.
u forgot to add resident bambu hater (understandable) and resident qidi hater (which is full of shit, because qidi got best printers below 2500 euro price)
Hey Nathan, I really enjoy your videos! They're always so detailed, especially your review of the Creality K2 Plus-so much useful info! I've had the chance to try that machine too; while it has some challenges with weight and material management, I totally get why you still like it. Each machine has its own unique charm. Lately, I've been getting more interested in FLSUN's Delta printers. The design of their new s1 Pro is amazing, and watching it print feels like a high-tech mechanical dance. I'm looking forward to seeing your in-depth review of it, which will help me decide whether to buy one. Keep up the great work!
No offense, but your comment sounds so robotic.
Can anyone point me to a video where Nathan actually builds a robot? I wanna see it, thx
Go to my channel videos, go to oldest videos.
Also I used to work on military robots that can burst through a wall with guns and explosives, so you better watch what you say 🤖
th-cam.com/video/XHYdbznRWPQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=NathanBuildsRobots
Printers are robots too. Do not discriminate th-cam.com/users/shortsXHYdbznRWPQ
He currently builds a giant multipolar printer with a rotating bed. Surely worthe checking out.
This is TH-cam where you can be anything you want to be. 😅😂
great breakdown of the K2 Plus Nathan,it’s always refreshing to hear an honest take quirks and all,the Z banding issue is something i’ve noticed on a few printers too, especially with larger prints, your insights on filament waste are spot on, it’s definitely a good reminder to plan prints more carefully to save on materials,for larger projects, I sometimes use a Flsun V400, its speed is a game changer for tall models or bulk prints, while it can’t handle multi material jobs like the K2 Plus, it’s still a solid choice for scaling up without losing too much time overall , great review as always keep up the awesome work
That banding is a lot worse than I'd hope for. The rest is fine
I agree, the only real concern is the banding.
I didn't notice it on most of my prints (amongus figures ~ 30mm tall), it wouldn't show up on the flat plates and hueforge prints I was making, and even on the giant test print made with blue PLA that filled the whole print volume, it wasn't very noticable, nor was it noticable on the benchies.
But on the mask print I made, it was visible on it and the purge block. I figure it has something to do with the construction of the Z axis.
That same layout is used on tons of printers without much issue. Could be the size of the bed and the speed and accelerations that it is hitting, or just slop in the bearings.
The last thing that could really throw a wrench into the works is the CFS system. The filament cutter, varying tension on the filament during CFS feeding, the hotend and nozzle pushing up against the brush in the back of the printer, that all has the chance to add some variability to the process. I still think it's just a Z axis issue though, but we'll have to see if someone with more analytical skills can figure it out.
In terms of a Creality launch, having just one issue that only causes cosmetic imperfections and isn't a reliability concern is pretty good.
Maybe you can mod it with wobllex?@@NathanBuildsRobots
wouldn't triple-Z fix most of it?
Another tuber said recently that a firmware update changed how and when the large cooling fans that blow across the part and it helped.
It isn't that I'm a bambu fanboy. I run a business, I really don't care the brand. All I care about is reliability, serviceability and performance. I am extremely cautious about this machine because of crealitys history the past few years. I need to see how these machines perform over a few thousand hours and I need to see creality really turn around how they have supported their hardware in the past before I'm willing to give them another chance. All the issues you mentioned in this video are really non issues as far as a print business is concerned. The banding issue is a bit of a concern and likely easily fixable but it honestly should be resolved at the factory. For now I'll be watching to see what Bambu's next generation printer is before I make any decisions on what the next go to for me is. Right now the P1S remains my work horse printers because the additional features of the X1C/X1E don't justify the extra cost for me and creality has some things to prove before I'm willing to give them another shot. Honestly I'm more likely to go back to Prusa when the XL starts getting dialed in and drops to a more reasonable price than anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see creality finally start showing signs of being competitive again, I'm not anti creality. I just can't afford to put up with another K1 debacle. My printers run constantly and once I'm done with the initial setup the only "fiddling" I want to be dealing with is the regular maintenance.
That said I did finally bite the bullet and give the e3d obxidian high flow nozzle a shot despite my aversion to paying $75+ for a single nozzle. It shaved over an hour off my most common print job and that is a massive improvement, so I grudgingly bought one for all my printers (I'm cheap, I can't help it). I should also mention I print a large volume of custom ID card holders and light boxes so banding is a pretty big deal to me. I need those walls smooth, otherwise I'm adding post production labor I don't want to add. A little sanding on a few objects isn't a big deal, a little sanding on 2000 of them is a big deal.
Exactly this. I do not run a business. 3D printing is a hobby. I never heard of any of these brands. I started doing my research and ended up with Bambu. Zero regrets. People love Bambu because they just work. I have now had my P1s a year and it was my first printer. I it runs pretty much 24/7 and I have never had a single issue with it. That is impressive.
Z-banding is kind of Creality's trademark.
Like all 3d printers. Never seen a 3d printer without it. Not even on youtube.
I print high quality on my SE and it looks better than the Z banded print showcased in this video
@@AndrewLeathers yup but of my printers my Ender 3 S1 Pro is the worst, and that's after days of calibration and very low printing speed. With good filament and after being dialed in.
@@radicalbyte So weird, my S1 Pro actually has less Z-banding than my K1 Max. All I did was put a different cooling duct on it and use a Rpi with Klipper. I don't use it a lot though as it prints much slower than the K1 Max.
@@BlackDragonBE Damn. I've relegated mine to the shed for now (due to speed/quality) but if I get around to setting up a print farm I'll probably just let it chug on doing easy or forgiving prints.
I think one of your lead screws might be bent, or not perfectly centered at either end, either because of the bearing stabilizers at the top of the screw isn't perfectly aligned or the coupler at the bottom isn't centered. If the z-banding was from torque, then every layer would be affected. There could also be a defect with one of the brass nuts.
Good theory. It also could just be some contamination in the bearings. I will have it move up and down on Z and see if I can notice anything wobbling.
Not sure, since it is repetitive, if what he says is actually true. As I pause the video, and the repetion is every 4 mm, this mean on each rotation the Z has moved 4 mm, however: K2 Plus Z-axis architecture: two screws + four optical axis (thicker) + 2 Z motor. So what he says is impossibly related to the Z driving system. The object he holds is overextruded on the corners, so it has probably been printed at a very high speed, and the acceleration/deceleration at the corners is not fine tuned. one has nothing to do with the other though. Mine is arriving soon, I will see if that is an issue (maybe it has to do with the spool, maybe something completely different, but not the Z architecture)
Ill give the k2 credit. I've just been burned by creality too many times. Hope it works out for folks.
We'll see how big the flood of customer complaints is. If they can manage to do a proper launch with this, and put out printers with as good of QC as the printer they sent me, it will be a huge success.
I know what you mean. I got a CR10 Smart and I maintain that without manual leveling and non functional auto leveling that printer was not fit for purpose. It's just a big expensive paperweight. So seeing praise for the K2 has me skeptical. Always wait 6 months after a printer comes out to see if it's really worth it.
You've been burned by them?
Or was it your skill level that burned you?
I could get any creality printer working, in any condition, for $20.
@@DoctorEviloply Skill issue.
Yeah agreed. I bought the first gen K1 and man it was a disaster. But the K1Max i waited and that is a true machine no issues
Regarding "poop filament waste" besides using the purge waste as infill or support (assuming the same/acceptable filament type) I wish there was a way to add something akin to a 'bonus piece'.
You set up a repository of various things you would like AND you don't care about the aesthetic (or you were going to paint anyways). And assign a numerical value of how many you would like.
Clips, clamps, bearings, table top minis, stands, jigs, lures, internal mechanisms that no one sees, etc.
When whatever you are printing gets sliced and calculates the purge it matches that with one (or more) of the things in your "bonus piece" repository.
Of course some time will be added to take into account the tool path though so there is a tradeoff.
I would just like that option to use more filament or time.
After hearing so many negative things about Creality's QC, it's refreshing to see a machine whose negatives aren't related to poor quality
I have many Creality printer. Had other brands as well. I think the negativity from reality besides comes from the price point being affordable for so many people that beginners get it and don’t know what they’re doing.
Yeah, they really are victims of their own success. They released the cheapest most accessible printer at a time when printers kind of sucked. It will take some work to rebrand into the expensive high quality brand, like Bambu has done
I feel like most Creality negativity comes from sour ender owners that are holding a grudge.
@@nekrosoft13 nahh, they just do such a poor job at copying and really don't care about their customers. In the end they only copy others and they can't even get that right.....
@@quadlawnmowerman so true. Wow.
the z banding is almost a deal breaker for me. i spent so long trying to rid of it on my cr10. split between building a large core xy with enclosure for abs/asa vs being lazy and just getting a machine that already can do what I'm after. the ams is just a bonus for me, do to the waste amount I would only ever use it for lithophanes and hueforge. maybe super rare doing something like you did with a the big batch of sus dudes.
it is a deal breaker, end of story, unacceptable for this price range... k2 plus+ coming soon with a fix
@SteveBennet500 you are completely right. It is a deal breaker. I was really excited at the thought of an "off the shelf" that can do anything I want. But end of the day I want a printer that can stack layers reliably. Watching different reviews of the k2 plus they all have z banding and they are all at different intervals aswell.
I have Eibos dryer that turns the filament every few seconds for even drying and it's annoying, had to turn it off.
Something i just thought about... my dad bought me a k2 combo for christmas. Yes, i know christmas gifts are supposed to be surprises. Anyways, I've watched a lot of videos and the poop seems to be a common complaint. When accessing the printer settings, is that something where you can go in and fine tune the amount of extrusion during fil change or would it not be worth the headache?
you said this printer only has 2 screws for the z but it has 4, when you say two do you mean in the position their in, like even with 4 screws it's still a 2 screw configuration
How can you show the purge tower as your example of z banding.
Of course it will look like that... It's the purge tower.
Show is an actual print the has banding.
Did you dial in you filament? Did you do your flow rates?
Seems like your the only one completing about z banding with the k2p.
Probably user error.
I agree, the purge block is a bad example because it is printed at high speeds, so will tend to have poorer quality.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Can you print TeachingTech's z wobble tower and show up?
@ I’m actually doing that right now 😂
The fact that the glass door isn't screwed on. Mine came with the top hinge not attached. Creality has not responded to multiple emails
I am working on an updated video with z banding tests.
According to people on the internet, the z lines were slicer related and only show up on multicolor prints.
Will have another video out showing single color Z banding performance to see if the base mechanism is good for the Z axis.
Bambu Fanboys will not be happy with the results.
Definitely want to see this. I was in the discount group (still waiting on my machine) like to see if it's a real issue or if it's just people being super picky about everything and not wanting it to be better than Bambu systems. I don't care about printer brands, I use every type of printer if it works and has spec's I need that point in time.
I am definitely interested in that updated video. Hadn't brought in. Likely to do so next year.
Please pin this comment, 90% problems with z banding is software
@@superlalka7775is it? Please explain how.
We won't, it was clear even on single color prints from your first vide0.
Is z- banding per z leadscrew rotation? Then find side most inluence, to help discover location of bent leadscrew.
looks like it
can the cfs detect lower than 15% relative humidity? The sensor in the space pi was limited to that. It also wouldn't start heating if ambient temp was below 15c, which is ironic for a heater
Not sure, I just ignore the numbers on the front. I wouldn't be able to do anything about it even if it were too moist, and it doesn't have a build-in heater. Maybe they will bring that in a CFS pro with 6 slots and a heater??!
I keep seeing people say the Space Pi can't go below 15% RH, but that's not true. I've gotten mine to go down to 13%. The caveat is that you have to open the lid a little (there are spacers you can print). It's possible any excess moisture doesn't escape, so "burping" it allows the RH to go lower. I discovered it really works by accident when I wanted to check something... I opened the lid and almost immediately the RH dropped from 15% to 14%.
@@NathanBuildsRobotsit would only be good for drying 6 rolls of the same material. put pla and abs in, then heat for abs, your pla will go to shit.
@@chandrizzle yes I've tried that. it seems you got lucky. my screen is also very non responsive, sometimes you have to push a button 30 times and so hard that it warps the screen and moves the whole unit. i've come to learn through experience that there is no quality control with their products and the components used can vary greatly between units.
@ yeah physically getting RH below 15 is very challenging
Is it really z-band? This deffect usually has repeated nature, like every 10mm you can see line, this more looks like inconsistent print, it could do something with extruder, uneven flow, or maybe belts
more like a belt issue, if it is the extruder it would not be so even!
Your constant 'bambu lab fanboys' schtick is getting old.
Distracts from your usually well though-out take on things.
I have a well thought out take for you:
You are a bambu lab fanboy
@@NathanBuildsRobots Haha, nah, I couldn't care less about a brand or another.
All I care about is products that deliver on their claims, and understanding their pros / cons.
The only fans you should care about are the ones you once were 'upgrading' onto noisy and poorly designed printers with the help of tin snips to make big holes in their panels 😂
I noticed this too, tbh it seems like devolving psychologically. Hope hes ok, would love to see a return to facts and observations and get past this weird creality/bambu love/hate phase.
Have you tried loosening the screws attaching the lead screw "nut" to the bed? It'll give a bit of wiggle room to prevent Z Binding... I found that to be the Issue on my Ender 3 that I had been chasing for months
I like it... but I hear bambu is coming out with a "larger" one than the x1c... and would love to see a comparison when they do before I decide
Hi Nathan. Your channel has been a great prerequisite for folks new to 3d printing. Statues and mini figure printing is a big component to the popularity of FDM printing. Resin printing is dangerous and requires a lot of consumables. The closest we can get with FDM is .06L using a .2 nozzle. Can you speak about FDM resolution capabilities coming closer to resin? How small and smooth can we expect from FDM and, is there room for improvement with FDM?
I’ve seen posts about the z rods not having a bearing at the top and people asking if it’s correct or not on FB. Does yours?
@nathan did you have to sign any paperworks from creality prior to posting this video?
Besides Z-Band it seems have under extrusion too. And what yu think about all electronic boards in the hot portion of printer ? Wont it cause thermal fatigue and damages to the boards in a long term ?
Depends, no way to know without looking up datasheets of all the parts and doing testing.
I’ve ran some GF ABS with the chamber heater on and didn’t have any issues
How does the CFS handle TPU 95A?
I want to print stuff with integrated TPU hinges.
It does not... Currently no "AMS" system does.
FlashForge ADV5X is claiming it can handle multicolor TPU, I’ll be taking a look at one next week
@@kaivanderbijl4272 Currently no "AMS" system does, Really? "Bambu TPU for AMS redefines your TPU printing experience with enhanced performance and seamless AMS integration"
95A can not pass the filament detection, 95A is the softest you will be able to print. I print down to 60A on a very slow printer with the special bondtech shortnozzle mosquito, which costs as much as the printer.
Nathan’s the ultimate sleeper build
This video was much better. It could have been a little more negative though. It did not quite satiate my bambu fanboy hunger for shading other printers.
The AMS also makes quite a lot of noise when it changes between filaments. Is the noise from the CFS someting which continues during printing or is it also mainly when it swaps filaments? As a bambu fanboy I simply must know.
My apologies, I will be more negative in my next video. I hope this will make the Bambu Fanboys return, they are so much fun!
It's basically an AMS clone, it burps every 5-10 seconds to load a little more filament into the system.
I’m just very skeptical because my k1c has a lot of room to tinker and mod, if you know what I mean.
Why don't they just change the filament a while before the color change? They could use some of the purge on the actual print, should be able to make minimal amount of print poop that way
Hmm that reminds me of that other 3D printing company, what was its name again
I do not think I be doing a lot of color printing, I got this printer for size of the plate and fact you can load the CFS with PLA for print and PETG for the supports making a clean print once the supports are removed? I never tired that so do not know it that will actually work? like to see a video on that. I wonder if the nose on the CFS can be reduced by put in bearings or grease on the gears
Sounds good on paper, but for a single color print, who wants to make the print time x4 to make supports come off easier?
Wow, not one fanboy on thus video, they are more fragile than the bambu hotend itself! Great vid btw
What about VFA? They finally get rid of it? I gave up on my K1 Max and bought X1 Carbon Combo and I am never going back, even though the bed is small but for the quality of my prints - I can live with it.
Yup, basically no VFA. I think it has to do with the new motors
Does the bed fall when you power off the printer? Cause if not it could be an indication of some resistance causing banding. I saw other vids where the bed just falls to the bottom when powered off on the k2 plus
Yeah it falls down. Good idea to check that though
OMG that banding... wowzers
I am new to 3D printing and don’t have one yet. Was looking at these during Christmas to see if there are any good deals. I see this one runs for about 1500 and the Bambu equivalent runs for about 1000 on sale right now. Is the Bambu a better one to get?
It depends on what you need, the bambu has slightly better print quality, the K2 Plus is significantly larger. Also you seem to be citing the price for the Bambu printer without a multicolor unit. The K2 Plus without the multicolor unit is $1200
For a beginner, the Bambu P1S is a better bet than the X1C, and way better than the Creality. For one thing, it's proven. For another, the user experience is very polished compared to other printers. Also, half the price of the K2 for 95% of the practical functionality. Materials requiring >300C nozzle temperatures and heated chambers are very edge case and seldom worth consideration for a hobbyist. Also not nothing is that the K2's production is backed up so it'll be awhile before they can ship one out to you. Bambu will show up in a week. If you get a P1S combo for $749 and decide you really like 3D printing and need to print more biggerer, the K2 should be better stocked a few months from now.
@@Immolate62 Thank you for the recommendation. Very much appreciated. I don't have specific projects in mind, but would use on for making Halloween projects, couplers for dust collector hose adapters, and items sort of similar. Perhaps after I get one I will find more uses for one. But it sounds like the P1S is good one to start with.
Well there goes my order, the z-Banding is a dealbreaker for me. I'll wait for a bigger bed Bambu.
It's actually not as bad as I thought - will be posting a follow up doing a deep-dive on this issues
i see the creality print quality is still bad
💩
Bambu Fanboy Detected!
@@NathanBuildsRobots u got paid already? dont even own a bambu
More like reliability and quality fan @@NathanBuildsRobots
@@TheCraen it's paid
@@riba2233 happy?
That z banding is really quite bad. I'd be interested in seeing an Orca VFA test on shiny PETG if you have time. If they have reduced VFA significantly, it would be interesting to analyze how they did it. It's the thing that bugs me most about my otherwise great P1S. It appears to come from the belt/pulley arrangement, possibly the toothed belts running over smooth idlers.
Yes, this printer has very little VFA, but instead you get horizontal banding. You're just trading artifacts in one direction for another.
But it really is not that big of a deal on the functional parts I made. At least it prints reliably!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Sure, but I'd argue that the cause of the z banding likely isn't a result of them fixing the VFA. I feel like they are probably unrelated, and it didn't have to be one or the other (unless you know otherwise, happy to be proven wrong) It takes away from what could be a great printer if they have fixed the company's issues with slicer/QA/reliability of previous releases, and looks bad enough to deter some people who prioritize print aesthetics.
@@oldman1944 no i completely agree. Its just that one company solved one, the other company solved the other. Now we just need one printer that fixes both issues for perfect quality.
@@oldman1944 Any agreed, it could cause some people to look at other options. I don't really care about asthetics of my prints so i'm still super happy with the machine despite the Z banding, which seems like the last bug that Creality needs to fix on an otherwise perfect machine
@@NathanBuildsRobots Well for me it unfortunately is. I am currently undecided between a Qidi4 in march when the bugs will be ironed out (the worst are fixed already) and this thing and if I have to shell out 1.5k for a printer it better should not have such issues 😕 Not everyone gets this printer for free and for many people dumping down 1.5k for a 3d printer is a ton of money!
I'm not a Creality hater or Bambu lab fanboy, is just that Bambus are better printers. You didn't mentioned the awful multicolour print quality of the K2.
Huh? I printed a bunch of hueforge and toy figurines that look great
@ there are a some videos showing this, the layer stacking is not good on multicolor prints
Was this z-banding observed after the update that fixed the fan problem that was introducing z-artifacts?
I haven’t done any updates, maybe I will have to try that out later
Unfortunately, my wife is a FlashForge fangirl so any dabbling in multi-color printing will probably be with FlashForge's new ad5x. She still uses the Finder I bought her 2018 quite frequently and it just won't die. It's like a snail that won't stop coming for me.
I will have a chance to look at the AF5X soon. Looks very promising.
Why did Creality use two Z-rods instead of three? It's definately not a cost saving measure!!
because in practice it doesn't really matter
"sure, you can copy my homework, but it can't be better than mine"
I guess the Voron 2.4 or the Voron Trident with their 4 or 3 linear rails driven by an equal number of belts or screws wouldn't have this Z banding issue.
Z banding has a huge number of potential causes, but it would help rule out one of the potential causes
i would like to request a test on their filament run out and resume system.
they never work on me
Firmware Version: 1.1.0.65
I did test it, and it worked. I shut it off mid print so I could reinstall the back panel during one of my test parts
For me it's definetly still the price. Which is kinda ironic since the "race to the bottom" with all those Ender 3 variants gave the Creality brand such a negative touch.
But to be realistic and consumer friendly here: for most people and prints a "medium" print volume like from a K1c is enough. For bigger stuff a Sovol SV08 would also do everything it should. Combine any one of them with that CFS and you would still have money for filament left. So it definitely is an enthusiast machine.
But most people simply do not have to spend more than those 500 (K1c) or 600 (SV08) bucks on a printer.
Thanks for all the info Nathan. Mine should be here next month. I do have another question for you on the Creality store main page. It has 4. CFS units what needs to be dine to be able to run those and have them on the side instead of on the top
I'm not 100% sure. They should come with longer cables and bowden tubes. The filament buffer has room for all 4 bowden tubes, so that part should be pretty straightforward.
There is a video of someone setting up 2, on the creality behind the scenes channel. But I'm sure it will be easy enough to figure out.
@@NathanBuildsRobots yeah it’s gonna be a straightforward something very easy to figure out
Z-banding with a twin motor bed is from the steppers not being exactly perfect and/or being out of phase. Same slight ripple you get from cheap motors/steppers you see in the x/y. I had that problem with my Sermoon D1, I simply tied them together with a belt and put them in phase when I tightened the timing gears. Later just unplugged one, since I noticed it made no difference in operation 😅
That’s an interesting fix. I really don’t see the need for more than 1 z axis motor. There is no reason to tip or tilt the bed
You could have a point, if they are not 100% in sync, they start to work against each other, and then indeed e repetitive loss of step of one of the motors, could be the issue BUT... these are not stepper motors, they are servo motors... servo's tend to be more in sync. with a current measuring system maybe you could detect if there was a difference. So if there is no difference: it is not that, what you are saying.
ALL single nozzle MMU printers waste a TON of filament. The only way to avoid this is to have multiple tool heads (like the Prusa XL), but these are expensive printers. For handling just two or three filaments, the mulit tool head machines might be on par cost wise with some single nozzle MMU systems, since the MMU unit adds quite a bit of complexity.
I am thinking about the possibility of a 'printers for ants" Micron+ with 2-4 toolheads.
Not necessarily, the ERCF for instance can waste next to nothing. (I think it was Made With Layers that got purge down to no poop and a single hollow purge tower with his unit with no fine tuning)
It really depends on how well tuned it is. These systems (as I understand it) don't retract THEN cut THEN retract, they just cut, retract, and purge the waste. The ERCF retracts the filament so that it only needs to cut away the absolute tip, which reduces waste dramatically.
@@felixjohnson3874 Purge towers waste as much filament as pooping does. The wasted filament just goes somewhere else.
Yes the Prusa definitely has cornered the professional market by going the multi head way. If I had a professional print studio I probably would not even consider any of those printers and go straight for the Prusa for multi color prints, but for private persons the Prusa is way too expensive!
@@KennethScharf Yeah, I'm aware, read what I actually said. With it properly tuned for retraction you can avoid cutting off more than even a few mms of filament resulting in so little waste a single small hollow purge tower can clear it all. We're talking a literal fraction of a fraction of the waste of the other MMU systems.
If your complaint is literally that there is *_any_* waste at all, just stop 3D printing. There is always *_some_* waste, the question is how much, and with a well tuned ERCF you can get next to 0.
@@felixjohnson3874 I suppose if all the stars align and you have filament cutters in the path, and you do a cool down of the hot end so you can do a cold pull to help clean out the hot end before changing filament, you can avoid a bit of hot end purging. Also if you can have the filament change happen on the inside of your prints so you can't see where it happens you can hid a bit of color blend. I wonder if anyone recycles their poops and towers into new filament for test prints?
I'm waiting for a costed down tool changer. I know quite a few manufacturers are prototyping such systems and they're going to certainly be more expensive than an ams\cfs\mmu approach because you need x full tool heads, but all of this waste and added mechanical systems that WILL wear out and require maintenance at some point, I think toolchangers are the future. Also way less waste. Further, there's nothing that says you couldn't connect a mmu to a tool changer if you wanted as well if you needed occasional access to a ton of colors.
A simple test for Z-Banding is to just remove the Z-Axis Top Cap Bearing on the Lead Screw (if it has them),,, it will clearly show if your Lead Screws are Bent by just moving the Printer Bed up or down 100mm and watch to see how much the Lead Screws wobbles around -/
2 Point Constraint Systems is the worst idea in history of Bad ideas for 3d Printers Z-Axis-
Ok, I'll see if I can try that
Lol! Love your sense of humor. Kudos. 👍🏻
there are other machines that use 2 rods like Voxelab Aries / Flashforge Finder 3, which uses cylinder linear bearings. the rods are both on one side, and it's possible that because the bed itself is lightweight Z banding isn't an issue (that I've noticed).
Being every 4cm or so can mean it has to do with the leadscrew (does it have a leadscrew? or whatever it is). or maybe it can be a reflex of the bed itself, sort of springing back since it has 2 points not 3 or 4.
if only they made it more like the Voron / Sovol SV08 where the bed is stationary.
Would the flying gantry make routing the multicolor filament even more challenging though?
@@NathanBuildsRobots Things can be attached to the flying gantry itself like nozzle cleaners, extra tool heads, or dockable z-probes. The docked item is then stationary relative to the gantries z-height and the tool head only needs to move in the X and Y axis.
@@NathanBuildsRobots i suppose depends on clearances. as an engineer, i would say that can be done.
No way I could use this with the banding since most of my prints are in vase mode and banding significantly weakens vase mode psrts
I can afford a p1s so i bought it for the convienience+my wife can use it.
A Fiberon spool in the background? Interesting.
This thing can print CF-PPS it thanks to the high temp hardened steel nozzle and heated chamber
@NathanBuildsRobots heated chambers add a lot even to larger nylon and ABS parts
For printers in my price range which are the K1 And the A1 Combo i have to say the k1 takes the cake. Not just the printer but the slicer and ability to do everything on mobile. Also i feel bambu is very limiting. BUT i truly love my A1 i just wouldnt use it for 1 color.
That banding is awful, how haven't you mentioned this before
It would hurt the affiliate link . Or he didn't notice it, or understand the importance if it. But glad @NathanBuildsRobots pointed it out clearly here. That quality is total crap and I feel nobody (who has a free machine) talks about it .
It isn’t very noticeable on most prints. Look at my previous videos with sample prints. It wasn’t enough of an issue to be worth bringing up for 95% of the prints I did
@@NathanBuildsRobots response time is on point Nathan!
Agreed, there is so much going on with the machine, it's easy to overlook or simply not understand it's importance. Until after. It's all 20/20 in hindsight 😉
One should take into account that the part he showed us was a prime tower, which is not printed with any quality in mind (different settings from regular print).
@@TNX255 oh. Crap. I didn't know that.
Yea of coarse the prime tower will usually be awful. That's fair.
Some other print quality photos also showed some banding on normal printed objects though. So I jumped to conclusions here too soon.
Hate is such a harsh word for the definitive source of 3D-printing news on the internet. It's best to call it "slight dislikeness".
Nathan I've never seen you say so much good things about a printer until this one😂
It doesn't look like it punches with features and I do like it. But for me personally, 1499 for a creality printer is just no no and I'm surprised you didn't mention that at all.
I can get like, 5 K1's for that amount of money?
I might do a K1 vs K2 comparison. They are very very different
@NathanBuildsRobots oh no I have the original K1 and it had horrible extruder. You know that better than anybody. It was NOT plug and print at all.
Maybe that's the reason there is no way I would pay 1499 for a creality machine🤣
He's taken all his love for the Bambu's and saved it for this one because of the hard breakup of their torrid but brief affair.
The only thing I was hoping the K2 didn’t have, it ended up having. The z banding is a dealbreaker. Guess I’ll stick to Bambu.
Z banding is caused by irregularity in the quality of the leadscrews. I have a Qidi Q1 Pro that uses the same 2 screw 4 rod setup and it has no Z banding issues. 3 leadscrews would be preferred I agree but you'll still have z banding if they aren't (close to) perfectly manufactured.
Bought it for 750 during pre sale, best thing i bought in 2024.
Having blind faith in creality may have paid off for once 🤣
I also "bought" it in presale, however, never got it, and now bought it double that price.
@@NathanBuildsRobots it wasnt really blind faith, i could always resell it within two days as the printer is brand new. Trow it on a local market place for 100 more and there will be someone that comes and buys it. Its still not available, allot of resellers are still waiting for it.
@@NathanBuildsRobots first time ever, I guess!
Liked the video even though I'm a Bambu Labs fanboy. I think you glossed over the z-banding issue a bit. Of all the detractors, that is the only one that matters. I don't have that issue with my K1 Max so what's up, Creality? Fix it.
It's not as bad as it looked on camera, this video I shot with the rear facing camera on my phone which applies a lot of digital image sharpening. I'll do a follow up, i'm printing out a bunch of Z banding test prints and will shoot it on my main camera that has the best 4k image quality
Damnit. Without a zip tie obstruction detection system the poop issue is a deal breaker for me.
@NathanBuildsRobots Great info, as always.
I've read some of your other replies to comments re: z-banding.
I have a question as I'm considering going for the 2CMS K2+ combo (likely Monday), by far my biggest cost printer purchase. I do mostly production so I'm looking for a workhorse. I've struggled/learned some on a few printers over the years lol still a lil nervous about going for it.
The Z banding is concerning, I have my, much simpler, ender 3v2S1CR-6Diamondback mashups that do much better quality than that.
Does slower print speed have any effect on that? I'm really curious. Could you run a couple smaller comparison prints and leave feedback here or post a short?
Thank you kindly all the same. Take care.
What sort of prints do you plan on running? I’d say on anything under 50mm (smaller than a benchy) it’d be hard to notice the z banding.
The best closeup I have of print quality is right here, switch to 4k to get the best look. I don’t have a whole lot of good closeups.
I do think it’s the biggest issue it has in terms of print quality, but on most of my prints it wasn’t very noticeable. It’s almost completely lacking VFAs, which most printers struggle with to some degree, so seeing smooth lines in that regard is pretty nice
th-cam.com/video/WjdeQoY0sdo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mX4Ys9Wp7E1oQnjt&t=1066
Also in the hueforge prints and panels I was printing, I didn’t notice them at all. It just depends on what you’re printing wether they will show up or be a nuisance
So the option now is a cheaper Qidi 4 which you have to fix yourself in some aspects but produfes amazing prints and the more expensive creality which has the z-banding 😞
Again Creality, it will be interesting how this printer will behave over time. My experience is that Creality printers degrade over time and the maintenance effort rises for good results!
This printer won’t degrade over time like the old POM wheeled Ender 3s and Ender 5s of the past. It’s all high quality bearings, what can go wrong?
The Z-banding is not a small detail. Doesn’t look good imo.
It's espeically bad under harsh lighting and with a low quality camera that applies a lot of digital sharpening. In real life it is much less noticable
I’ve been on the fence for a while on whether or not to subscribe to your channel. Seeing this constant “for the Bambu fan boys” rhetoric is quite unbefitting of someone who wants to be the definitive source of 3D-Printing News and sort of disrespectful. When I first jumped into 3D printing, all of my machines were Enders and CR-10’s. Even when I researched and knew they had crappy QC. They taught me a lot, but mainly that I hate leveling beds. Seriously screw that. I pulled the trigger on a X1C - making it my first CoreXY purchase. I was scared that it would be like my Creality machines. I was wrong. The X1C and the stock profiles Bambu offers for their brand filament is miles ahead of Creality. My K1 Max never lays the first layer down properly. Ever. It has horrible VFA issues too. The support removal on the K1 Max is also such a hassle. Half the time my supports bond to the darn print. I’ve done everything under the sun to try and improve that. No dice. I too, need a bigger machine to print parts, so I pulled the trigger on the K2 Plus. You need to remember that Creality has always released a new machine with slight improvements over the last. Almost like they’re a car manufacturer. Why can’t they release a machine thats near complete like the X1C? I know it has its fair share of issues, but it’s constantly printing all day every day with zero issues. It prints the same consistent print quality no matter what. You really can’t blame people for knocking Creality. They created this issue for themselves.
I guess when the K2 Plus Max comes out, they’ll use 3 rods instead of two! 🤦
Also - When are you going to tell the consumer that the bed on the K2 Plus falls down when the machine is powered off? I believe I have watched every video that you cover the K2 on and you still haven’t touched on this. Hmmm.
I have 100% mentioned the bed falling bit it in a video. I'm confused why people think this matters though? I powered it off once and it rehomed at the bottom and resumed printing.
1) dont pick it up
2) legit but ill deal with it
3) that print looked terrible why?
4) legit
5) great info and advice
I am only a fan of Bambu because it does what it was designed to do, long before any other printer could.
Prusa
From the guy that brought you "Carbon fibres in filaments will give you health problems". I do wonder how Bambu hurt your feelings. Is it because they wouldnt match the amount creality pay you to peddle their crap?
Are you doing ok? Videos seem to be going down hill in a few ways. I'm genuinely concerned now.
I’ve got one more video on the k2 planned, doing a deep dive on the Z banding issue with some test prints. After that I’m done, I swear 🙃
I will give you credit where it is due. In any business, you look for the niche and then try to capitalize on the social disruption it can create. Negativity sells which is also a simple business model that has entered the social marketplace. Taking on Bambu and their fans creates clickbait. This a niche no one is exploiting as a business model - your main manufacturer will love you and put money/ product in your pocket. Almost a genius strategy - just watch your inbox for any messages that may come form “yadda yadda” and associates. Getting tied up in any kind of legality be it contrived or actual merit-based - will have the possibility of breaking any piggy bank you can put aside. Not a fanboy of any company - just a simple guy looking to research all there is to learn about 3D and I have enjoyed your take on some printers. ( But I did just buy the Black Friday Bambu P1S combo - as my first printer - luck be with me!)
You did a good choice. Reliable and great ecosystem. This guy just loves to exploit the manufactured hate. All his responses here are childish and clickbaity. I been printing since 2014, and so far the piece of mind, customer support , and reliability of Bambu are unmatched.
@@aarrodrias most that research find out. I have found over 20 recent reviews- and all serious ones - are Bambu leaning strongly - but if Qidi 4 gets the electrical problems under control - they may be soon the next hero out of a closet for printing
Con # 6 The CFS system doesn't actually include chicken fried steak.
Not with that attitude it won't
Even have a bot account dedicated to spamming the first comment with how you’re the definitive news source? Gosh dude you’ve been conveying yourself as a totally immature person lately.
I swear it's not me, I have cultists everywhere.
Boomer?
It's called "trolling".
Because it's fun to laugh at the snowflakes that get their panties in a bunch over it.
I own an x1c btw. 😂
z banding? yikes that sucks, that should be able to be fixed on a Creality firmware update?
The other 4 items? stop whinning hahaha.
That z banding looks just as bad as my K1 Max. I’m hoping Bambu’s large printer outperforms the K2.
Oh no, I'll wait for the new Bambu. You'll see, Bambu will always be 2 steps ahead of the others. Everyone else is trying to create copies, but it looks extremely ridiculous. And yes, I'm not a fan, I just choose only the best. I'm tired of constantly improving and eliminating the shortcomings of other printers, such as Creality. I just print on Bambu and it's cool.
I'm waiting too, but not forever.
Forget the banding. Even where there are no bumps, the side quality is terrible. If my Bambu printed things like that, I'd be contacting tech support.
lol 😂 bambu fanboy detected.
That is a purge block, it is printed at high speed with 0 attention to quality
Look at some of the other sample prints in my other vids
@@NathanBuildsRobots
You shouldn't have used a purge block as an example
@@NathanBuildsRobots other examples also don't look best tbh, layer stacking is far from ideal
Wait until you'll get clog in extruder - the one where you can't pull tube out. They copied BL X1 printer with all it's problems.
mate, the commercials on TH-cam with your face were cringy. Still the better reviewer tho.. :P
That z bending is a pollen
Are you allergic to z bending?
That you should print multi colour parts not under 0.2mm and the print quality in multi colour is worse than the A1 and the input shaping, that is still bad and people still have VFA and there already fixes from the community? Sorry, that was not the Bambu Lab Killer. Let's see how the X2 will change the market again. Bet even the A2 will have better print quality.
I have no VFA, look at my other videos for print examples.
whoa that's heavy
I think it's mostly to deal with shipping loads, but it also makes it very stiff so it can handle high accelerations
hi, is it true you can only use Creality brand filaments for the multicolour? I heard it has ID
Tag
You can load 3rd party filament, you just assign the material and color in the touchscreen manually. You have to assign these before printing, otherwise it won't work. I assume this is to make sure it uses the correct purge/load settings when starting up a print. (don't want to have it try to load nylon at PLA temps, so it needs to know what is in there)
lol such a fanboy, the print quality is hideous.....
I know that I’m regret to bought it k1 max and not good ever
Why is he being such a twat about Bambu Labs?
Bambu Fanboy Detected
Now I‘m concerned, as I pre-ordered already. At th-cam.com/video/EIS2RmTIvBA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zS3cCL0b95ah16na&t=128 the z-banding isn‘t nice, but even the layer stacking does not look nice. Really not nice. 😕
Yeah not good layer stacking for 1500usd machine...
I thought reddit was the top spot on beating memes to absolute death. Take a bow 3d printing community. You did it I officially hate the word poop now. Didn't think it was possible so congrats.
BaMbUs ArE pErFeCt!
I wish they'd stop. You cannont go on a printing forum talking about an issue without someone chiming in "You should've bought a Bambu" as if they are problem free.
Why would anyone get this when it is just a blatant rip off of everything Bambu is doing? It is shameful how much of a copy this is.
Is it time to throw away some tech yet?
Thanks! And Nathan you really need a hair cut 😅
u forgot to add resident bambu hater (understandable) and resident qidi hater (which is full of shit, because qidi got best printers below 2500 euro price)
lol, ok. Just ignore the melting electronics of their latest printer at launch
@@NathanBuildsRobots You know what I cant ignore? how ugly your creality print looks. YIKES DUDE