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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
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About Thoughty2
Thoughty2 (Arran) is a British TH-camr and gatekeeper of useless facts. Thoughty2 creates mind-blowing factual videos about science, tech, history, opinion and just about everything else.
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Writing: Steven Rix
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Ok man you got to clear this up!! Is it "Thoughty2" or "Forty 2" -- or "42" -- or "Fawlty 2" --- what is it please!!??!
The 5% population stat, roughly what would the real number be? Having the context is good, but having the real number could put today's population in a more clear perspective.
I love your content been following for years your the best
You've been advertising Babbel for quite the while now, if it's true you can learn to speak a new language in 3 weeks you could maybe speak a bit more French in your next ad than just bonjour? 👀
I'd feel more confident in using it and so would others I guess. I mean that 3 week promise sounds a bit sus
Thoughty2 i love your videos and ive been following you for quite some time and through all these videos ive gotten the impression that you are looking st life through the eyes of Scientist blindly following what some big Scientists say and in my mind if you are a seeker,a person looking to understand world through science you should aswell doubt in the science itself. The real scientist or seeker is the one who questions everything.
Hamelin is my hometown, so I was very surprised and delighted to see you upload a video on it! You can actually book city tours in Hamelin where the guide dresses up as the Pied Piper and plays the flute, it’s pretty neat. When I was working there (near the city center) you could often hear him walking through the streets playing music. I’ve never seen rats or children following him though, just tourists :D
I'm german and I somehow never, ever heard of "Hamelin", isnt your city called Hameln ? :D
@@berserkr4782 Yeah, it’s Hameln, I just used the English name ;)
Rats? Tourists? There's a difference? 🤣
I visited Hamelin once. Ihr habt eine wunderschöne Altstadt.^^
Hmm. So that's what happens to tourists who go there never to be seen again.
Wow, this guy amazes me more and more after each story. If i had a teacher like this in my early days, maybe some subjects and topics would be a lot more fun!
Great narrative for story telling, keep up the good work man!❤️
(long story. feel free to ignore)
I homeschooled my two kids into high school, then let them go to (a great) school to finish. One of my proudest moments for my kids came in regards to history class. My son had the class first that day and they were learning about the Civil War. It was all dry, just dates and statistics, when the teacher told the class about the Battle of Antietam.
Now when I taught the kids history I taught them the stories - from the perspectives of people who were there. If there was a movie about an event, we'd watch it. My husband is a military history buff and he watched hundreds of documentaries and told them stories from wars their entire childhood. So when Antietam was briefly mentioned and glossed over my son lost his mind. "Oh, no! This can't be all you're teaching these kids about this battle! There's so much more. May I?"
The teacher was confused, but allowed my boy to speak his mind. He took over that period. Told them about how families showed up and set up picnicks like they were about to watch a football match. Talked about the horror of the crowd as they watched the truth of war in all it's gorey glory. About how the entire field of battle was ankle deep with blood. Losses were massive on both sides. This was THE event that drove the reality of the civil war into public conscious. (The teacher told me that the entire time kids kept looking at him and saying, "Is this true?!" lol!)
So two class periods later my daughter comes in to take her seat. The teacher chuckled and said, "You're brother kind of took over my class this morning. Apparently he didn't appreciate how the textbook teaches about the Battle of Antietam."
My daughter opens her book, finds the single paragraph, then looked at the teacher in horror and growled, "THIS is how you're going to teach about Antietam?! Are you serious?! This battle scarred the conscious of a nation! DO I HAVE TO TAKE OVER THIS CLASS, TOO?!"
So she did.
The teacher discovered that my kids both had a passion for history and knew their stuff. When a topic was coming up that they cared about, they'd as to be excused from their other classes for the day and the two of them would spend the day teaching the other kids in his class. They'd come home so excited, run into the family room, and slam the door shut to put their heads together to plan a lesson when invited.
My kids squabbled all the time, but when it came to history, they were in lockstep. And it didn't stop. Even as young adults I'd hear them sitting with their friends by a fire at night telling a history story. They could go all night and people actually enjoyed it.
If you ever want to get curious about history I'd suggest you start with biographies. Reading history from the POV of someone who lived it totally changes your perspective. That's what we need to show kids.
My mother loves to tell the story of my reading their original tales, an old book of her mother's, each decorated with woodcut blocks, in fouth grade. Evidentally, I looked up one evening and said, "boy these guys really are" Mom said What ? Grim, I replied. They were. I adored them.
i think aliens with a flute of psychology sounds pretty likely here assuming they had sufficient studies on human psychology
Excellent! One of the best stories you gave us so far! Thank you Thoughty2 !
In the children's Crusade about the same time, the parents were only too willing to allow their children to go because there was serious famine, and the children ate lots of food and the town were probably completely broke. The children could have been sold to slavers who would make good price . In the children's Crusade, the children never reached the holy land and they they were probably sold as slaves, and the girls into brothels. This maybe perhaps the best realistic explanation. Thank you for this video very very interesting indeed
The aliens were hungry that day.
Assalamalaykum waramatullahi wabarakathu Thoughty2.. i am glad i found your channel.. Thank u .. Keep uploading informative contents.. Jazakallah khair..🙏
Excellent video!
William Manchester was an American writer, historian and Marine. Otherwise, this and others of your videos are great. Carry on!
Led Zepplin a band of which one of the songs played backwards explains alot of this story of the Piper.
"Silly Monkeys" - Aliens
Huh, I'be heard a slightly different explanation that's basically a fleshed out version of the "accident" one.
The children were really children, and were being led away by a Piper-type figure to protect them from some kind of danger (a battle, I think.)
They were killed in an accident, and over the years, a lot of hatred and resentment got piled on the Piper for that. He became the Leader of Rats, and lured them to their doom deliberately.
This title sounds like that Arc from Berserk where Guts hunts down a demon girl who steals all the children in her village and turns them into demons.
Maybe parents were "forced" to give up their older kids for forgiveness of their depts.
Because the piper story has a moral to always pay what you owe.
Forgiveness of debt was not uncommon to get ppl to do such stuff
That's a really cool theory and makes a lot of sense. This was the feudal age, I wonder if the town may have owed something to some tyrannical lord, and after the debt couldn't be resolved perhaps he sent someone to collect on it. Maybe the children were the town's payment in lieu of being massacred by the tyrant's army.
Yes that makes most sense to me.
Considering the timeframe, this may be the reality. Solid theory.✌😸
Who were the usurers?
@@OakwiseBecoming that's where it gets tricky. Maybe a lord that didn't get his tax money. Maybe money lenders/bankers that struck a deal with the locators.
Children were not that protected back then. Remember the children crusade for example.
The oldest known wind instruments were discovered in Germany. They were flutes made of bones. Tiny, tiny bones.
Brrrrrr.....shudder. still more freaked by the Aztec death whistle I think though but marrow chilling nonetheless.
😶
Sus
Dark Rainbow indeed !🌈🌑
1. The oldest instruments are between 50.000 and 60.000 years old. Germans like to say that Germans 'invented' them, I'm not sure why...
2. They were found allover Europe, not only in Germany.
Dancing mania may have been caused by ergot. A fungus that is present in wheat and when consumed (usually through bread) caused muscle spasms and hallucinations.
Really fascinating
Its a Bit like acid
Interesting. I had never heard of dancing mania till now. Ergot poisoning I'm well familiar with, tho from what I've watched and read this tended to exhibit in rather more violent symptoms than merely dancing
@@6995D1 exactly like acid, that's what its made from, isolating from ergot
yeah..and I' ve heard that one of the more severe outbreaks was in Strassbourg
And THIS is why R.Kelly always called himself “The Pied Piper”
That's a really well-aimed observation
and em
So the children left, because it was the freakin' weekend.
🤯
Age ain't nothing but a number
I read a theory once that it was possibly based on a Children's Crusade. Some charismatic preacher comes to town, inspires all the kids to follow him on a trek to retake Jerusalem, and they all die. I'm not sure if the dates line up, though it does sound interesting.
Well, the dates roughly match up - the Children's Crusade was in 1212, which fits the 1384 historical entry saying it happened over 100 years previously.
I know there was a children's crusade in 1212 that started from Germany, so that does line up somewhat with the dates given. Important to note is also that the word children is understood to be a misinterpretation of the Latin word Pueri, and not referring to age per ce, but also to a socially lower class of younger sons of poor farmers and servants, where normal crusades where done by knights etc.
Was under the impression that, among historians, this was the most widely accepted explanation. Surprised it wasn't in the video.
I remember very well the children's crusade originating in France and Germany: here is the following excerpt: "the story goes with a boy that begins to preach in either France or Germany; claims that he had been visited by Jesus, who instructed him to lead a Crusade in order to peacefully convert Muslims to Christianity. Through a series of portents and miracles, he gains a following of up to 30,000 children to reach Jerusalem but this does not happen. The children are sold to two merchants (Hugh the Iron and William of Posqueres), who give free passage on boats to as many of the children as are willing. The pilgrims are then either taken to Tunisia where they are sold into slavery by the merchants or else die in a shipwreck on San Pietro island off Sardinia during a gale". But this is a popular story but apparently it was true as this failed Crusade was placed around 1212....
@@paoloviti6156 The 1212 children's crusade were in actuality two separate crusades. One originating in France with about 30k participants, (most of which in actuality never left France and returned home after the French king Filips II ordered them to if I'm not mistaken), and one originating in Germany with about 8k participants trekking the Alps. Survivers of both indeed sold into slavery.
Actually the topic of children's tales is generally a fascinating one, each tale in it's own special way.
For example, Little red ridinghood has many versions over hundred to thousands of years - including an ancient far eastern one about a girl wearing a red hood being eaten by a bear. Kinda makes you wonder how it travelled so far and wide.
Probably because it's a universal issue of young people being oblivious to the danger of being on their own, and a warning not to trust anyone...I think all teens are the same, no matter where in the world they live....
There are a lot of very gruesome theories on the metaphors in there. From Little red ridinghood being raped to "little red riding hood" being a metaphor for your dick and the wolf being some sort of std.
Every Era had an MC that'd travel alone fighting beyond earthly physics and accidentally spreading information.
My favourite version is a parody: "Little Red Robin Hood." The girl robs the wolf at arrowpoint.
@@willmfrank what if the story was only 5 pages and she just caught a quick lick off the wolf. Catch him lackin.
Regardless of Pied Piper being what we generally believe, it is remembered in a way that actually feels like death took them. It means that the people who stayed back, actually grieved them deeply, wether they emigrated or not 💔💔
Je suis très heureuse pour votre intérêt d'apprendre la langue française! Merci pour vos histoires intéressantes!
Knock it off, no speaking in tongues or fake jibberish bullshit!! Speak English like a normal human being, not like some 3rd world animal. This is your first strike, choose a finger and remove it as punishment, you have 3 days to comply
Of all the fairytales that I've heard and read, the Pied Piper of Hamelin has got to be one of the ones I thought would be based on a real world event the least. This is both disturbing and fascinating to me.
Epstien and Maxwell took them.
so whats your conclusion ?
@@nerolowell2320 Apologies for the late response. I was at work and could not respond. I believe that the final theory brought up in this video makes the most sense, even if it is the least interesting one.
So Goldilocks or Hansel & Gretel sounded more plausible? 😂
@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 Considering people breaking into houses and kidnappings happen on the regular, yes.
I cannot recommend this channel highly enough. The narration, subjects and pacing are almost perfect.
One of the best Story tellers I know besides Mr Ballen😌 it must be connected to their moustaches😄
@@asator2746 Mr. Ballen puts his own spin on ALMOST ALL of his stories. If not all of them, he dramatises them for sake of the video. Once I found out that he adds things that aren't even factual I quit watching his channel. Thoughty is by far the better story teller, he doesn't have to embellish everything to keep the audience engaged.
Yeah, Thoughty2 must be the best story teller on TH-cam.
Jeremy Clarkson is also amazing at that too.
I wonder if being good at story telling is a British thing.
@@andregon4366 the accent helps for sure
@@mittens1225 I was thinking that too.
I found this channel at random and I have you say you are everything I ever envisioned in my perfect British fantasy.
Excellent content too!
Maybe make a video about the mystery of what happened to Thoughty1?
The children could’ve still been killed by a plague…meant as an epidemic of some other desease - the XIVth century black plague is remembered because of its continents-wide scale, but bouts of epidemic disease were a recurrent and normal constant in medieval Europe. The 130 Hamelin children could’ve easily been killed by an outbreak of a simple influenza streak (that adults could’ve already been immunized against) - something so utterly normal and recurrent it’s not worth mentioning.
If your disease theory is right then one likely cause is the Streptococcal infection Rhematic Fever. It is highly infectious amongst children and in a significant proportion of children between 5-15 yrs it results in an autoimmune neuropsychiatric movement disorder called St Vitus Dance or Sydenham's chorea. Before antibiotics Rheumatic fever had a relatively high mortality.
I have been waiting for this video. the pied piper is such an interesting topic. when i was younger I always thought the pied piper and Peter pan are the same person. and Peter pan was evil and he kidnapped children to make lost boys. and they both have PP initials. just my theory
edit: new point pointed out by @Tom O'Bedlam , he also played pan pipes. maybe the pied pipers real name is unknown and peter changed his last name to fit his alias.
Thanks for ruining the hell out of Peter Pan for me.. :/
@@Frosty_tha_Snowman 😂 sorry for ruining your childhood. I just never saw Peter pan as good. even as a little kid. I didnt know that other people loved him as kids since I thought he was bad. I mainly read the books on Peter pan so I didn't get the cartoon happy scenes and good Peter pan. my imagination pictured a villain. and the pied piper fits the story so well. the lost boys. thats where the children went.
@@AlyxAesthetics I'm not actually a big fan lol, I think I watched it once when I was a kid and didn't like it that much. I'll just never look at the character the same way now 😅
@@Frosty_tha_Snowman I didnt like the Disney version. I didnt grow up with that. I liked the originals. even Peter pan in the cartoons is a bit sociopathic and selfish
@@AlyxAesthetics I feel the same. Peter Pan scared me a lot. I had nightmares for days after hearing about it
Interestingly, the explaination that 'children' in the story probably referred to simply lower class people or smallfolk is also used to explain the so-called Children' Crusade.
i also just wrote that, wonder it´s nothing about it in the video.
Or just was meant to mean people from hamelin in general
About fifty years too early for the children's Crusade but yes, that's the theory I agree to.
mmm - interesting! first i’ve heard of that. certainly makes sense. 🌷🌱
I love Shel Silverstein's Pied Piper poem -
"I cannot say I did not hear
That sound so haunting-hollow.
I heard, I heard, I heard it clear -
I was afraid to follow."
Are there any old Census or Church records in existence in the vacinity that might provide some idea of the age of the disappearing 'children'?
Unfortunately not. The church (in which that original stained glass window was installed) burned down in the 1600s. 1666, if I remember correctly, same year as the Great Fire in London. Everything inside was lost, including the census records that would have told us this.
The idea that the piper represents death seams the most likely to me, I remember lots of fairy tails having such dark undertones. Maybe this was a story that parents told to siblings to soothe their mourning, or to make light of a dark moment in history.
that is actually a very good theory.
why the use of the word piper on the plaque though
In the movie seventh seal a painting is shown having a group of deceased people walking across a valley companied by musicians, dancing and holding hands as they skip into the afterlife.
You used the wrong spellings for two words. First, you wrote that "The idea that the piper represents death seams the most likely to me." You should have wrote "seems," because "seams" refers to the parts of clothing where they were sewn up.
Then, you said that you remember "lots of fairy tails." That should have said "fairy TALES." Tails are what you would find sticking out of the backsides of animals.
@@michaelpalmieri7335 Oh boy. Do realise that grammar nazism is generally referred to as a psychological deviation. You shouldn't assume that everybody is natively English speaking. People understand what he means to say just fine.
The Tale I remember about the Pied Piper was they where lead out of the town into a mountain and 3 children couldn't follow: 1 was lame and couldn't keep up with the rest, 1 left without both shoes and hurt the unshod foot on a rock so stopped in pain, 1 was too eager and hurt their head on the mountain entrance.
If anyone has researched the orphan trains of the 1800s , it wouldn’t surprise you to think that when disasters happen such as mudfloods . Thousands of homeless , orphaned or abandoned children are shipped all over to essential grow and repopulate places . Most sent into slave labour and appalling conditions .
Maybe this was another case of that
Hi
the orphan trains of the 1800s ...what were they?
@@ausendundeinenacht1 literally what I said , children from all over were taken from poor parents or workhouses of orphaned and moved all across various countries . Many ending up as slaves or worked to death . It would be interesting to see how many people trace their history back to an orphanage or nothing at all .
Note : The ledger reads "our children" and not "all our children".
This puts some plausibility back into your comment around 10:40, where you dismiss dancing because it would not kill everyone. Yet, more than 2 seems unlikely.
Another thing - If it were the dancing mania there would be graves. Same goes with the molester theory.
I can see this story being a metaphor for other happenings. Someone comes into a village and gets rid of the people they don't want there, somehow. (the rats) The person then comes back and convinces the younger generation to leave. It could be something as simple as people being conscripted and then convinced to join an army or to leave for a bigger city. Even today, people who live in small towns lament that all the young people have left/are leaving for better opportunities elsewhere. The pied piper would have been dressed colorfully and used a musical instrument because he was a walking advertisement. "Harken to me. The king hath promised a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot if thou art under the age of 19 and movest to Munchen."
This seems the most likely explanation to me- my wife and I did a bit of study on fairy tales. That and some of my liberal arts education suggested that many of these stories reflected the mores and folkways of the people they came from (including Greek mythology stories and Aesop's fables as well as the Germanic and Slavic tales).
@@jaklumen just how young are these children tho, it sounds like they’re not even teenagers also in the 1200’s were there any bustling cities / enough incentive for them to move away especially 130 of them?
Ha ha yes
@@Azoria4, yes. Human nature is nothing changed in thousands of years. The allure of the city would draw some, better opportunities would dure others, and yet more would be enticed by the adventure.
I still think disease. One that first began killing the rats (highly social and if overrunning a town then the disease could spread very quickly) and then spreading to people, having a particularly devastating effect on children. Even though they wrote off the black plague, it did have another wave where adults were mostly unaffected but was still a death sentence for children.
R. Kelly used to call himself "the Pied Piper of R&B"... we all know how that creepy celebrity's story turned out.
Beat me to it!😭😂😭
😳
Years ago, I was in a two week run of a musical stage show called just "Hamlin".
Our script writers, and also producers, used a kind of metaphor for the story involving the homeless, drunks and drug addicts - the Rats! In other words, vermin!
It was a big production, lots of children, teenagers and adults made up the large cast. The young children played the innocent schoolchildren of the town, the teenagers played the homeless addicts, and the adults played either the townsfolk or the local councillors. I played Mrs White, one of the mothers, and had 3 children...one of which was my own 6 year old daughter at the time, and one of my other "Hamlin" children was the daughter of the man who played the pied Piper himself! (Hi Tim and Laura if by some crazy coincidence you happen to read this! 😁)
Anyway, I thought our "angle" was quite a clever way to sum up what was really meant by the story, that after not being paid, our Piper took our children, and left us with the scum he had been hired to clean up!
I think your eastwards migration theory makes probably the most sense, although wouldn't properly explain why such sinister engravings were etched onto buildings or poignant town records were written down to describe it? People have always travelled for employment, and throughout history we've only ever made a public reference to it if a tragedy had occurred preventing their return. For example, soldiers names listed on plaques or records of plague death victims etc.
I recently saw a documentary on Prime video, called The Egtved Girl that I found fascinating. I'm sure you more scientific nerdlings have heard of this ages ago and don't need me to tell you. The documentary itself is fairly recent, but I hadn't heard of it at all until seeing the programme just a couple of months back. Your migration theory reminded me of her. She was a teenage girl around the age of 16, lived in the Bronze Age, came from The Black Forest area of Germany and her grave was unearthed about a hundred years ago in the village of Egtved, in Denmark. Strontium isotope tests were used to better date the remains, and give more insight into her life. Although more North East than just Eastwards, they found she had made the migration hundreds of miles from home, and not only that but went back a forth a few times covering thousands of miles in total.
If people travelled that far way back then, it's of course even more likely that people travelled regularly for employment in the 1200's... But that still doesn't explain why such a thing would be so traumatic for the residents of Hamelin collectively...?
German folklore is really really interessting. Our folklores have many "magical" storys and topics from said pied piper to Witches, from Basilisks to the Nachtmahr (the origin of the word Nightmare), form Knights to the Holy Grale.
Germany is one of the most history rich and intersting countrys in the World.
...filled with self aware and humble people!
And sausages
I love how most of these are scary or horror
@@johnrichmond.4783 and responsible for the death of 6 million jews.
@@graan1802 Hitler was. don't blame it on innocent citizens
There are other possibilities. Maybe the kids went on a crusade? That might sound ridiculous but it actually happened several times, all of them ending poorly.
Maybe the kids joined a weird sect?
Maybe the adults were involved in the kids demise and made up a wild story to cover their tracks?
There are also the possibility some nomads kidnapped the kids, like mongols for instance. Sure, it was 60 years after Genghis death but smaller raids did happen and slavery was still happening in the Baltic countries not that far away.
We just don't have any information so we can only guess and there are so many things that could have happened which doesn't help the least.
Did the Mongols go that far into Europe to reach Germany?
@@fattiger6957 I don't think so
@@fattiger6957 Well, Subutai's army (one of Genghis generals) stopped somewhere in either modern Poland or Ukraine but smaller raiding parties penetrated further then so. To Hammeln? Maybe, maybe not. There were also other nomads like tartars kozacks and more who at times plundered the area.
And add to that a huge number of more local outlaw bands but I am not sure they would kidnap children since travelling to places where slave trade still existed (Latvia have been mentioned as such a place but that might or might not be true) would have been a bit much for them.
In short: The past was the worst.
Mongols could never strike so deep into the Holy Roman Empire.
@@rennor3498 The holy Roman Empire was more a loose confederation then a unified nation. Foreign raiders did raid villages at the outskirts of the empire now and then, particularly whenever a weaker emperor was in charge.
This either happened just before or just after Alfonso X died so I don't think it is that unreasonable that some raiding parties would attack poorly defended places. there were basically just forest and wilderness all the way to Mongol controlled territory.
I am not saying that was what happened, just that the possibility exist.
I love how much of a history buff this guy is. If you don't learn from the past, you're doomed to repeat your mistakes in the future. 😊
AYYOO MY TEACHER SAYS THAT TOO HE SAYS IF YOU DONT KNOW THE PAST YOUR DOOMED TO REPEAT IT
@@re3b472 you have a good teacher young one 😊
You have to be willing to learn though. And humanity doesn't do a very good job at that.
Truly impressed with your painstaking research! This tale scared me to death when I was a child. I opt for the latter theory as well. There was still a stronger presence of weird regional dialects, so the original meaning of boys, young men could have altered to small children over the years while the story was spreading throughout the country. Frühneuhochdeutsch (Early new High German) was still SF in 1284 lol
Bruh. The kids were _OBVIOUSLY_ lured to *Pleasure Island,* magically turned into donkeys-and then sold off to various coal mines. 🤷♀️
Understanding the context of words used in the language is important. Is it possible that the German people refer to it's people as it's children more so than anywhere else? Is it used in this context more often in German than in any other language?
Also, is it possible that "pied piper" is a label that got lost in translation?
Interesting idk
I am a german and live not far to Hameln. It is not more common, than in other languages. Indeed it could be possible, but if we hear the sentence: "Unsere Kinder sind verschwunden" (Our children disappeared) We first think of little children and not grown ups. It would be considered very strange, to say that, meaning not children. In germany the story was told through the centuries, and it always involved children. The "pied piper" is mostly called "Der Rattenfänger von Hameln" (the rat catcher of Hamelin) or just "Der Pfeifer von Hameln" (the piper)
Pied piper is quite a stretch away from the rat-catcher "Rattenfänger" he's known as in germany. And Rattenfänger can and does sometimes still rfer to a con-artist. Like someone selling you NFTs or a Monorail. *sings Monorail song*. So i think it's most likely that it was eighter a guy looking for people to settle in the east or a cult-leader or maybe even a carismatic in-between that caused quite a lot of young and disenfrenchised folk to leave town and settle elsewhere.
@@frey7631 However, you can't apply modern German language to this. The original version would have been in a 15th century variant of low German.
@@olenickel6013 Yes. But 15th century german is not as far from modern german as you might think. In the old legend there was witten: "Am Tag von Johanni und Pauli“ (26. Juni) 1284.... "Er kam wieder mit bunten Kleidern "und trug einen wunderlichen Hut“.... "Alsbald kamen nicht Ratten und Mäuse, sondern Kinder, Knaben und Mägdlein vom vierten Jahr an, in großer Zahl gelaufen, worunter auch die erwachsene Tochter des Bürgermeisters war. Der ganze Schwarm folgte ihm nach.“ .....("On the day of Johanni and Pauli" (June 26th) 1284 .... "He came back with colorful clothes" and wore a strange hat "...." Immediately it was not rats and mice, but children, boys and girls who came from the fourth year on, ran in large numbers, including the mayor's adult daughter. The whole swarm followed him. "... The original inscription on the "Rattenfängerhaus" from 1602/03 reads as follows: ANNO 1284 AM DAGE JOHANNIS ET PAULI WAR DER 26. JUNI - DORCH EINEN PIPER MIT ALLERLEY FARVE BEKLEDET GEWESEN CXXX KINDER VERLEDET BINNEN HAMELN GEBOREN - TO CALVARIE BI DEN KOPPEN VERLOREN. ...In Modern German: IM JAHRE 1284 AM TAGE VON JOHANNES UND PAUL - WAR DER 26. JUNI - (WURDEN) DURCH EINEN BUNT GEKLEIDETEN PFEIFER 130 IN HAMELN GEBORENE KINDER ENTFÜHRT (VERLEITET) - (GINGEN) AM KALVARIENBERG BEIM KOPPEN VERLOREN. ..English: IN 1284 ON THE DAY OF JOHN AND PAUL - WAS JUNE 26TH - (WERE) KIDNAPPED BY A COLORFULLY DRESSED PIPERER 130 CHILDREN BORN IN HAMELN (ENTUCED) - (WENT) LOST ON CALVARIAN MOUNTAIN DURING COPPING.
C'mon. The piper was hired to rid Hamelin of rats. Only he was a BAGPIPER. He sat down in the middle of Hamelin town square, and began playing. First, upon hearing the horrible noise, all of the rats fled the town. The mice followed. Then, the cats, dogs, small livestock fled. Then, all of the horses and cattle kicked down their stalls and left . Then it was the town's children. Finally, all of the adults of Hamelin deserted the town, leaving only the mayor. The mayor of Hamelin, with cotton stuffed in his ears, approached the bagpiper carrying a sack of gold coins, the entire town's treasury, which he dropped at the piper's feet, before fleeing into the forest, screaming in agony. After that day, Hamelin sat deserted for several hundred years. Know your history. 🙃
I'm Scottish, and very offended at your opinion on bagpipes lol
Aye och, that's the best explanation yet! 🤣🤣🤣
The bagpipes are indeed an ill wind that blows nobody any good.
@@tomobedlam297 here you! You sound Scottish, you should love them tae 🤣
This sounds like a medieval Stephen King novel! 😱💗💗💗💗
I would be curious to hear how the story of The Pied Piper of Hamelin has been modified and adapted in different countries and what meaning and teaching they have given it?
The version and teaching that was told in Finland has generally been as follows:
The city of Hamelin was plagued by the worst mouse year in years and the townspeople were starving. There were so many mice that people couldn’t even see the ground or the floor beneath them. But then happened that a traveling musician, who skillfully played the flute, arrived in the city. After hearing this, the richest merchant of Hamelin suggested to the mayor that they hire this piper with ten coins because the he was an outsider. To everyone’s surprise, the piper managed to lure all the mice out of the city into the nearby river and only by playing his flute. But when this wealthy city refused to pay the musician, this bound together all the children from the city, took them away with him and played the flute happily.
This story has been used to teach children that if they promise to pay for work but betray the promise, then whoever has been betrayed will exercise the self-right to take the fee and and interest themselves. If the city had paid ten coins for the musician’s help then the price of the help would not have been their children.
now, that makes total sense. most of the fairytales used to have som kind of meaning or moral. 🌷🌱
Yeah...yr description of the story is accurate..thats what we learnt in germany also, and , incidently I come from Hameln
Although I originate from hameln, I'm not any wiser AT ALL than the other commentators here
Didn t Carl Zuckmayer also write a historical dissertation on this?
It may have been already mentioned, but when listeningto the possible explanations, I immediately thought of the accounts of the Children's Crusade, said to have taken place around the same time. The wikipedia entry about that even mention's a possible connection between the two. Perhaps Thought2 would like to expouund that idea.
T2
Perhaps DNA evidence could help the theory.
If any descendants of those early people have DNA matching those areas of Poland, it would
add credence to the work and migration theory.
Cheers,
Rik Spector
That will not help, there were waves of waves of german migration to eastern germany and well alooot of wars.
If you don’t want to watch the entire video I’ll save you time.
All the children left the village because I showed my ugly face there.
"...we can't take this story at face value".
Why not? Maybe the Piper practiced we sort of black magic. Or was a demon of some kind. The stuff written down at the time sounds pretty specific to me.
One version of the Pied Piper story ends with the piper leading the children to a mountain which magically opens up. Using his flute, the piper induces the children to enter the mountain, which then closes up, and the children are never seen again.
As for all the different theories on the origin of the tale, I heard that it was inspired by the Holy Crusades of the Middle Ages, whereby for years, "Christian" knights fought battles with Muslim soldiers to drive them out of the Holy Lands, which were the areas of Palestine where Jesus Christ lived, preached, and died.
It's said that some Crusaders recruited youngsters from various European towns to join them to replace knights who were killed in battle. The Children's Crusade it was called.
These children, dressed in miniature versions of the knights' armor, took part in many battles with the Muslim "heathens," and large numbers of the youngsters were killed, which is why their families never saw them again.
Jesus Christ loves you and died for your sins have a blessed day
Maybe the village thought there was some kind of war coming or something alike. They paid the piper to get them safely to some other place and get them back after the village was safe again. But the piper just led them all over poland and they stayed wherever they wanted. And after that the piper never showed up again in the village and therefore no one knew where the kids were.
4:40
In the version I've heard, the Piper lead the kids to the side of a nearby mountain where a strange doorway opened and took all the kids in. When the townsfolk woke up the next morning to find their kids missing and began to search, they found one boy on crutches. The boy said the Piper promised the kids a magical world. But the boy couldn't keep up with the rest due to his disability, and by the time he got to the mountain, the doorway was already sealed shut.
The version I'm most familiar with as well. This ending is not so harsh for most of the kids of the tale. Just for the adults.
I suspect this alone would make it a more popular version among the intended audience of the story - children.
@@edwardofgreene i grew up with a similar version with a more happy ending, the piper basically hyde the kids in the mountain and when the mayor finally paid him he give the kids back. Tough, that version was a child book.
@@despinasgarden.4100 This is the one I was told as a child as well as the boy on the crutches.
I remember being told a version of both a blind child and a crippled child who stayed behind. If the immigration theory is the true version, this would def make sense considering you need strong abled bodies for timber work.
That’s the one I heard and acted out in a play.
Greetings from Hameln! 🐀🐀🐀
As a German it´s always weird to hear foreigners calling the Town "Hamelin". Because the Towns actual Name is Hameln.
The town's actual name is Hamelin - in English. Just like how München is called Munich :)
@@viktorzenk I know. I didn´t say anything other. I just wanted to say how weird it is to hear. Also like Köln-Cologne. 🙂
@@patrickhein6986 Ich habe das selbe gedacht^^
In Dutch it's Hamelen. Didn't know fairy story town really existed though.
" I'll just carve another hole in my flute, and now it's tuned only for kids."
Thank you for an intriguing video. I know it does not exactly fit the timeline but what about the Children's Crusade? Yes, the event itself was sixty years earlier, but there could still be a connection in things that occurred during that time period. Another thing, it was before the Black Death, Europe was much more populated and had more cultivated lands than a hundred years later (late 1300's).
THEY COULD HAVE BEEN TRAFFICKED AND SOLD...
It was actually a Children's crusade recruiter. Imagine something like Tomorrow Belongs to Me.. piper scenario. Temporal religious insanity, soon to be bitterly regretted.
"Its been over a hundred years since our children left."
Does this work with the timeline of the children's crusade?
You might be right
Did he have red helium balloons
The depth of research on all of the subjects you tackle is one of the best things about your presentations with the humor sprinkled in just adds to it, keep it up good sir!
99 of them??
@@PrincessFidelma lol
In 13th-15th centuries the location on Magdeburg rights (german law) was common in Poland, especially since the concept of the nation did not exist at that time, so local rulers encouraged this, most often the settlers came from western Germany, which would confirm this theory
In the book "Rats: Observations on the History & Habitat of the City's Most Unwanted Inhabitants" by Robert Sullivan, he recounts making the acquaintance of an eccentric man who had an uncanny communication with rats. On one occasion, just to demonstrate, he called hundreds of rats out of an old building and sent them, single file, around the corner and down the street. He did not use a flute, but squealed and stamped his feet. This incident is suggestive of the Pied Piper's abilities, even if the rat-enchanter was not the one who took the children.
I think the last theory might be even more possible if we take into account that sometimes words describing children are used when describing people who lived in the area, as "children" of this area there is a lot of old titles based on this use of such words
why does it have the word piper on that plaque though? Seems quite specific, unless it was inscribed later on.
10:25 dancing mania is the most bizzare thing I've ever heard!
Quite possibly the story evolved to heal the tragic loss of children in black death, or it's just a medieval UFO/Area 51 type thing.
Dancing mania outbreaks are actually clearly recorded to have happened seperately from the black death. The most likely explanations are either instances of ergotism (poisoning by wheat infested with a type of fungus) or mass hysteria.
I'm a UPS driver in rural West Texas and one of the small towns that we service is Hamlin. Their mascot is The Pied Piper. Always seemed like a kind of dark mascot to me! 😂
Please ..I' m INTRIGUED..as I happen to come from Hameln, Germany, Deutschland, originally..
Tell : what are the origins of this town???
@@ausendundeinenacht1The Hamlin in Texas was named after a railroad official. His last name was Hamlin.
I have heard one theory/legend that suggested that the children were led to Transylvania and this idea is interesting to me because I am ethnically Siebenbürger Sachsen (Transylvanian Saxon). This means that there is a small possibility that I am a descendant of the children from Hamelin!
Cameron Hartich
, hiya,
I have heard one theory/legend that suggested that the children were led to Transylvania..yeah, i always thought that was a convincing story
Truth is WE DON T KNOW THE TRUTH
PS I 'm from Hameln myself;
Last I heard, the street he led them down does not allow music. They were trying to overturn that rule, but I haven't heard how it came up.
One of the ideas I heard about it is that it was The Children's Crusade..... with the children marching off to the Holy Land. it failed of course.
Another idea is that it was one of the Fey who was the Piper, and he led them into the Fey lands...
Hi
yr "Last I heard, the street he led them down does not allow music. They were trying to overturn that rule, but I haven't heard how it came up. ..." I , ve come across that , too
Bungelosen Strasse it was called, as it happens!
And it STILL exists
I come originally from Hameln, I REMEMBER it, as it happens, its a very short street, with 600 years old buildings in it, still, but, yeah, dunno EITHER....
@@ausendundeinenacht1 My family is from that area, which is why I know the Fey story, interesting to hear about that law/rule
If the towns people and subsequent generations wrote “it is over 100 years since our children left”, then I doubt it was immigration to other places to construct new towns because wouldn’t some of them have come back to visit? It’s interesting that the pide piper was refused payment. I wonder what the reason for that was.
greed.
In the version I've heard, the town was pretty impoverished and didn't have any money to begin with. They were just desperate for the rats to be gone and didn't believe the piper could do anything anyways so the mayor jokingly said yes, seeing no harm in the man trying and no harm when he failed.
@@akiokami9367 interesting!
Kind of makes me think of the tale of “Rumpelstiltskin” when the girl agrees to give him her firstborn son because she is desperate for his help.
Prince Andrew was visiting
You should do a video on Bobby Fischer
albert fisher too
BOBBY, LETS PLAY A GAME!
Rook to E4.
I win
@@hmq9052 you wish 😄
If I ever get my hands on a time machine or time traveling powers. I'd just take this channel and start traveling to find out wtf happened in all these stories.
Also, I really need to say that mr. Thoughty2 is a really good storyteller and an absolute pleasure to listen to in terms of pace, articulation, intonation etc. And I say this as a non-native English speaker.
It’s cause Jimmy Saville got to them
The Pied Piper lured them to the local airport; they were led to embark a private jet and flown off to Jeffrey Epstein's Island.
"The sea was angry that day my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli."
I am growing the worry that watching these videos so avidly every evening will eventually cause me to run out of them 😰 I simply LOVE this channel ⭐❤️
Love the content, I’ve been a big fan for years, keep up the good work.
Getting definite "IT" vibes from this story . My own personal theory or hypothesis rather is that a brightly colored character playing a musical instrument could easily lure a bunch of children away to be snatched by another group . Those kids might have wound up in the Ottoman army ....
I have read that story while growing up multiple times as it was my favorite, it fascinated me as a child, i never knew where it originated however the ending was different in the version I've read obviously because disappearance of children wouldn't be good as a story for children i suppose. In which the mayor does not pay the Pied Piper, to which the said mysterious man leads the rats back into the town. Iam 30 years old and now after seeing this video i will never feel the same whenever i hear about that story again. But still it's good to know the back story, the music plus narration was really smooth as is expected from this channel and Thoughty2 or 42 haha.
Never heard of that version- every version I heard included children.
As a child, the first version I was read, the Piper drowned the children.
Even back then I thought, “Wow- that’s a bit harsh!” 😂
Didn't they find some mass grave or some DNA evidence of these children a great distance away? I remember learning something about this years ago, but the details escape me....
Can I just say I love your content dude. I don't watch every single video but I watch a ton of them and you always give me some new interesting historical event to mull over. Your content is entertaining and intriguing and I wanted to say thanks for that.
i can imagine villagers of hamelin making up a storie totally randomly just because they were bored
You’ve got it wrong, reality surpasses fiction all the time.
@@PossibleBat what do you mean ?
2 ideas - 1) that "children" refers more to sons-and-daughters of the town, than actual youth 2) Nobody seems to be arguing that a stupid politician could've screwed the townspeople... XD
The actual Germans in the comments seem to disagree with point 1. They seem to have the same understanding of the story as non-Germans?m, that literal children were led away from their village.
I agree the final theory makes the most sense, but you would not have a memorial/collective memory of loss if it was migration. Now if the migration (was believed to have) failed and all 130 children were never heard from again, that would make it special compared to all other migrations. The Lost Colony is absurdly famous for this reason, as is the Lost Roman Legion, who were both "lost" because their cultures/people lost all contact and records of them and could not confirm their deaths.
'The Lost Colony is absurdly famous for this reason, as is the Lost Roman Legion, who were both "lost" because their cultures/people lost all contact and records of them and could not confirm their deaths.' Nope. Not in this case. The missing children were referenced locally re church records, as I mention above.
Unless it wasa migration due to bad circumstances such as the town dating starvation or a battle or "war " of some kind and the children were sent away to keep safe.
Easily, 130 children could have perished in a school from a landslide after deforestation. Such a large number is not conducive to a multi-parental forfeiture of offspring (260 agreeing?). Neither is children chopping hardwood trees! Only postulated by those unknown to have attempted splitting wood 😉 If the children ate bad bread, the parents would have succumbed also, at least the smaller adults. Erratic snow accumulation was probably the reason during Earth's fluctuation. The "piper" was the terrifying sounds of Avalanche 🥺 And then the children, and perhaps many rats, were gone.... Great topics for thought,Thoughty2🤔
I have always heard that it was a charismatic holy man who convinced the children to join the children's crusade
History is so much more interesting when you blame it on aliens.
When in doubt go for aliens 🙂
Well its true and so is the theory on how the story was changed. My Own experience with what I believed was Sleep Paralysis, but this time something odd happened that never took place before or after. Came home from work, Looking up at my bedroom lid, I started to notice stars shining through it and when I saw my feet floating above my house, I began to freak out a bit till I saw something amazing. But when It flew over me it hit me with a sound. Like a Flute but that sound did not tempt me to it, It was some sort of beam and it hit me and paralysied me. Now, When I woke up 12 hours later, I had only a 30 second memory, I had a 1/4" wide circular Burn Scar on my palm. It was about as big around as a human eye ball would fit inside this circular scar. I had this scar over 10 years and I tried to replicate it by twising my palm on a galvinized pipe end, It would not cut the 1/4 wide, It would just make two smaller cuts on each side of the pipe so it measured a quarter inch but no matter how hard I twisted it would only cut the inside and outside edges of the 1/4 inch steel. Obviously I did not heat it up and press it to my palm cuz burns fkn hurt But I realized the only modern way of getting this scar was to use that same pipe but heat it up and press my palm to it, This would result in the identical scar. Only problem is the slightest little burn bugs the crap out of you for at least 3 days. A burn that would leave the scare I had would have been Impossible to use my left hand for at least a week, second week would be difficult but not as painful. HTF Did that happen? Lingering I alwasy suspected something more than a dream. Then I ran into John E Mack, research of the 62 children in Africa who had a UFO experience. When one of the little girls with legit fear in her eyes said in reply to John asking what the most frightening part of her experience was. "The Sound that came from the Craft, Like a FLUTE", Why was the sound more frightening than the experience/ craft? "Because It wanted us to go with them". Something to that Nature, That last quote Might be from the other little girl. Now it should be noted that all these children have been recently interviewed by John E Macks surviving brother. John Edward Mack was an American psychiatrist, writer, and professor and the head of the department of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. In 1977, Mack won the Pulitzer Prize for his book A Prince of Our Disorder on T.E. Lawrence, So the moment I saw this I was really wanting to explain this by a belief it happened. But I could not get over the possibility that I was sleeping cuz I cant float above my roof. In spite of the scar, Missing time, Flute. And the most scary part was that sound hitting me. Now a cpl months later I see a study that confirms another aspect. And then the Grand wopper that convinced me this happened in legit real. Ancient Aliens in 2019ish had D Sims talking about Abduction cases he studies. In one of his pictures is the Left Palm of a man claiming to have been abducted. Not only is his scar the same location, size, but the area where it makes an almost complete circle but then about the last half inch as if what ever burns this ring in our hand did not finish the circle completely. Larger than a crescent moon, Its more less about 3/4s of a circle as well. The odd part is the area where the gap was, Is also in the same location. It was as if what ever burned my hand in Late summer of 94, Was the same thing that burned this guys hand. Further I had also realized that this very situation happened to me the same year and month as the South African Children. When I told a researcher my story he was the one who told me that it was fairly well known that the Pied Piper was not exactly told the way it went down. It was pretty much what Happened in Zimbabwe.
Did that really happen to you? Sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming certainly causes very real feeling hallucinations and nor am I convinced by the scientific theory that half explains it. Why do about a quarter of ppl who experience sleep paralysis see a hag with long white hair that sits on their stomach? ?😨
Ppl seeing shadow people in the dark is totally understandable but the hag "delusion" seems to be too individual and unique to be something so many ppl's imagination's apparently conjure up.
So I'm not saying I doubt your experience felt very real 2u. But were you really left with a burn on your hand? That makes me skeptical and I'm sure most reading might dismiss most of your account, I don't.
Just the claim you have a circular burn caused by an aliens device.
Seek help.
@@Georgia.J well its largetr than that. Because of norms and comments like the ignorant one above about seeking help? Um inspite of my story I have my shituff far more together than that tard.. Actually at least 85% of all humans on the planet have has some type of OBE like experience. Only about 60 ever say anything and fewer have them often but its Most. just they dont talk about it for obviuos reasons. Everyone and anyone Iv known knows the shadow dude in the corner.. Its just a typical aspect of it.. But the situation I spoke of was not the same by any means. That stuff was standard to me. Its scary till you just ignore it and do your thing. what ever it is,, part of me,, them,, dont matter to me.. The situation leaving a scar on my hand, well it left a burn on my palm. Dreams by them self dont do that.
@@dstinnettmusic Says dude who has done so little with his life to the Most INTERESTING MAN IN THE WORLD.. I mean not but if you compare your self to me its like that . LOL.. Seek poody..
What’s with his map of Europe. It excludes European Russia but adds Turkey and Syria that are in Asia.
Nope, the last theory makes no sense at all if the numbers we have been given for the average life span is correct. It 30 to 35 😱 So in the 1200s the term “ children” would have been accurate considering children were married off at 12 years of age 😱 I think 12 years old is a child not matter what century your living in. Regardless this would mean the author’s description of children would likely be accurate and not 18 to 20 somethings. 🤔
Cheers 🍻
The comments are fascinating! Thanks to all of you. I enjoyed this immensely.
I’ve thought initially that’s going to be about child crusades. Would be rather interesting theme too.
Love some Thoughty2 videos. Makes my day a little brighter !
Or, maybe our understanding of musical scales has been altered, missing an integral piece? Maybe when we tune our instruments, write songs and actually play the music, the loss of this piece renders the music less than, not quite all there and leaving us with the lack of full knowledge of exactly what music can do? Perhaps this individual retained the knowledge of this missing piece? He then used this knowledge to remove the children, for whatever reason, playing a hypnotizing tune on his flute and leading them away in sort of trance state. 🤔🤷♀️
Cheers
Monsters who prey on children often settle for one at the time. 130 would be too much of a hassle for even the most aggressive predators out there. The worst that comes to mind is that Ariel Castro guy that held three young women captive at one time and even if it did work out to his advantage for some time it did become his undoing - thank goodness - and the girls managed to escape his house of horrors. That was three youngsters. Imagine 130 children. I’m a mother and I’ve been a kid myself and I know that children don’t always do what they are told to do. No, the child molester story is a theory that wouldn’t last ten minutes in practice.
I’d say it’s a metaphor for a disease that literally “took the children”. Children are more dirty than grownups - just think about how fast lice or the flu spread amongst children on daycare. Children pick their noses, lick everything and suck on their nasty toys. They eat snot. Ewww.. And they rarely wash their hands!!
Then we have the very plausible theory about migration/immigration.
Since the story included a rat infestation, I wonder why the hanta virus didn't get a good questioning. Hants virus comes when rat droppings dry and get stepped on which causes it to go airborne.
I had a chapter to study about ' The Piped piper of Hameliein'. It was wonderful
0:20 wow your pronunciation of Goethe is the best one I've heard of any English speaker so far 👏🏻
As I made lunch for my best friends 19 year old son last summer, we chatted. He had come over for the day to help me with some yard work. He made the comment, "all my 'aunties' still treat me like a kid. When are you guys gonna notice I grew-up?"
I smiled as he ate and replied, "when can we stop cutting the crust off your sandwiches?"
"Touché!"
LOL...You Brits sleigh me! Chinese Whispers?? I'm gonna go out on a limb here & assume you're referring to what we across the pond call Telephone?
Im so glad you brought up the "lokator" theory, to me it makes the MOST sense, esp if Hamelin was a relative small town in the first place, and the loss of 130 children would have deeply affected the socio-economic dynamic and progress of the day. If you think about it, in a "lokator" drive, guild masters would have lost apprentices, up and coming families would have lost marriageable children with which to firm up other social connections, as well as just the plain grief of loss of a whole generation of younger people. Perhaps there was a combination of "lokator" followers, as well as pure young child theft, as they would be less likely to remember their home town and be easier to keep long term. But thankyou for bringing this to the episode. Cant get enough of this topic!
trafficking yep