The Great Whole Wheat Bake Off: Hard Red vs. Hard White Wheat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ธ.ค. 2021
- After baking with hard red winter wheat all my life, I try hard white wheat for the first time in baking bread. The results truly surprised me and will change the way I make my bread.
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My own view is that it matters less how a bread looks than how it tastes. It seems like a taste test was in order.
FYI: Plastic Shower Caps are great for covering your bowl while the dough is rising. This is a wonderful demonstration.
Brenda: Great tip! Jim
Beautiful Bread, awesome comparison.
There is something EXTREMELY alluring in this woman, knowledgeable, scientific. Well spoken, confident, accomplished. Such a stark difference from all the 25 and under people you see on the Internet today. We're really losing a treasure as women like this fade away...
If I had to choose between any bread with butter or cake with icing, I'm a bread and butter girl. The smell alone says it all! ❣
I think both of your loaves look great. The bigger loaf will probably be lighter, but both will be very edible. Thanks for sharing.
I use a blend of hard red spring wheat and hard white winter wheat. The hard red spring wheat protein runs 14-16. The baseline for spring wheat is 14% and 12% for winter wheat, in case anyone was interested in knowing the difference between spring and winter wheats. I use the red because it’s what my husband grows. The red is more “bitter” which is why i blend them.
this was very helpful in ferreting out what king midas/occident flour was and the wheat berries it came from so i can use the vintage recipe book i have.
@@grandmananners I blend hard red and hard white. When I have used 100% hard red, i mix the in the flour to the sugar/yeast mixture. I don’t use measurement. I go based on feel/sight. I grind 6 cups of wheat berries. Whatever I don’t use I feed to my sourdough. Depending on weather I sometimes have to add more or less. I let it sit once I get half the flour mixed in and do a first raise. Then I knead more flour in after the first rise if it’s needed otherwise I punch it down and add a little more flour on the countertop while I am kneading it. This process allows for my ground flour to fully incorporate/saturate. Hope this helps.
We bought organic soft white winter wheat berries to plant.
I see no treatment on the wheat, would this be safe to mill you think?
For the super newbies… bread rising typically takes 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours depending on the warmth and humidity of your space and how dense the bread is
Grains and Grit has a great recipe for milled wheat bread. I used hard red wheat. It turned out nice and rose high. It was a one rise recipe. Check it out! The flavor was amazing too! I also made her pancake recipe using the same flour. My husband said they were the best! They were nice and fluffy. I also froze them. I toasted them in the toaster oven the next day frozen. They were still just as good!!
I have made her recipe twice now using white wheat. We love it. I also made the pancakes with white wheat but didn't telll my husband they were whole wheat as he HATES healthy things. He went back for seconds 😊
Thank you so very much for sharing this information!!!! I was about to throw in the towel on making 100% whole red wheat bread and I went to her channel, watched her video, made the bread and I could have cried I am so happy!!!! Bless you!
Hi Pam,
Yes, there is a big difference in the rise, but also in taste. My family prefers the hard white wheat, over the hard red wheat, in taste. We didn’t know the difference either until one day I used the hard red wheat and was shocked. Liking the real Wonder Bread, my family said they prefer the hard white wheat. After that, I only bought hard white wheat, but I do have hard red in storage, because I did not know the difference, when I first started our food storage. I was told that the hard red wheat has more nutrition, but I’ve never checked on that. That was a good experiment. I enjoyed watching today. Thanks Pam & Jim.
If you make sourdough, which takes a long time to rise and starts digesting the protein before it's baked, the extra strength of the red wheat is helpful or even necessary as dough made from white wheat will get too soft and be flat by the time you bake it. So if you're looking for a use for the red wheat, try some artisanal and/or high hydration breads.
Thank you so much. I had not heard of that.
Pam, the nutrition is the same among red & white, hard & soft.
The one difference is that red is higher in protein.
But white tastes better!
My understanding is that both hard red and hard white have pretty much equal nutrition and protein for yeast breads. The SOFT white has less protein and, thus, less rise. It makes good biscuits and pastries. I’ve always used hard white, but do want to try the nuttier flavor of hard red. They say combining the two 50/50 is quite tasty. Perhaps you can use that hard red by mixing the two together?
I’ve never had success in making bread; you make it look easy. I think I’ll try again!
Read The Tassajara Bread Book. It will walk you through step by step and you will be able to make a decent loaf of bread from the get go. His method is fool proof. He uses a Sponge and it is so easy once you get the hand of it. I have used this method for over fifty years and you can convert this method to any bread recipe. Good luck. Keep on trying because it is worth it.
I came very late to this, but I've been on the road for over a year and have had very little time to back, and preserve- and this year, I haven't even started seeds, except for peas. I hope you both are doing great! Thanks for this video, very good as always!!
I am about to start baking bread. I have purchased everything and after watching many videos, I came across your video. WOW!! I have been so intimidated starting because I was overwhelmed. You are a wonderful teacher. No nonsense and to the point. Thank you for passing on your knowledge. Both loaves look beautiful and delicious. Now I’m going to watch more of your videos. ♥️
Don't be intimidated I just started last week n haven't stopped. After a few u will feel like master!! Like y have I waited so long???
no taste test?
I had my taste buds ready anticipating buttery yums....
Beautiful bread making! I use dollar tree plastic shower caps they work so good fit most all bowls, I love hearing you pat the dough.
☺ Heather
I love using the Dollar tree shower caps to cover lots of stuff. I'll place a paper towel over salad to absorb excess moisture. Works like a charm.
Good idea!
Dollar Tree sells in the plastic bag area bowl covers, comes in different sizes.
Thanks for the idea Heather.
Nice tip, thanks!
"It's not a tuma" (tumor in Arnold Swartzeneggar's voice) ♥
They're both beautiful loaves! I think combining the wheat will certainly make an outstanding loaf!
Janice: We agree. Jim
I did this about a month ago, and yes mixing both gives great results.
I had the opportunity to learn to bake bread using both. I ended up preferring the hard white, mainly because it was easier to work with and my children enjoyed it more.
Was there a flavor difference?
@@Bebeembop I've heard there is. I've not tried it but will be doing so soon!
Do you mind sharing what you use to grind your wheat? Love this bread bake off.
Best channel ever 😊
I elected to buy a quantity of hard white wheat for my longer term storage pantry. When I first got my grain mill I purchased a small bag of both hard white and hard red wheat berries from a good quality provider to experiment with. My family & I preferred the bread made from the hard white (although, as a disclaimer, everyone in the family outside of my husband was used to eating the white Wonder Bread type from the store so they preferred the hard white because it was less "wheaty" and just barely sweeter tasting than the red).
Who is your quality supplier? Are they online?
@@tillisross2246 Palouse Brand (100% Desiccant Free • 5 lbs • Non-GMO Project Verified • Kosher Parve • USA Grown • Field Traced • Burlap Bag) ordered from Amazon. Not the most economical if you are ordering 25 lb buckets but nice for smaller amounts.
@kennysgramma I went with a WonderMill Wondor Jr Deluxe. It handles the volume I use, heavy duty construction, and came with both stone & steel burr sets for grinding various items I might want to try. This is a manual model for off grid use but has an adaptor available (which I splurged on) which allows semi-motorized operation with a heavy duty drill (which hubby shares with me from his shop) when electric is available. The motorized option is good for me since I have a touch of arthritis but I liked being able to use it off grid if required. I've used it manually to grind enough wheat to make a couple of loaves and, while it gives a workout, was definitely doable for this older lady :-).
Oh I'm already liking this vidio and I just started watching lol
I like using whole white wheat in my bread both regular and sourdough! Try mixing in 10-20% Spelt or Kamut as the total flour used. Kamut has a wonderful nutty flavor and a delightful color.
that "over-proofed" loaf looks perfect for a nice sandwich bread... but if you had paid more attention to the proofing of the white they might both be similar in crumb with the white being a softer bread... both look nice...
These are beautiful loaves of bread! There is nothing like the scent of bread baking in the oven to make a person hungry. Pass the butter!
When I started making bread my kids didn’t like the flavor of the red wheat only to find out that it has a stronger flavor sometimes bitter. That is when I switched to white wheat which has a much milder flavor and my kids loved it. Friday was my bread day and I would make 10 loaves for the next week. Nothing like the smell of baking bread. Your bread looks lovely even though the white over proofed….yep takes less time for white rise as it has a lower protein not much but enough.
I’ve recently started using your method for making bread! My husband says it’s the best bread I’ve ever made. Thank you Pam and Jim!
That is so exciting! Thank you so much for sharing your success. Congratulations!
I've never baked with either one, but that is some beautiful bread. I love homemade bread especially sourdough bread.
This is just the content I was looking for! Hard White vs Hard Red. Perfect. Thanks.
Think of how much butter the air pockets can hold. Mmmm.
Just hearing you cut the crust makes my mouth water. LOL. Pavlov’s dog!
Yeah! I came for the "gadget" & stayed for your wonderful research into internet info (such as "Survival Soup: Are The Claims Valid?" and "The Great whole Wheat Bake Off: Hard Red VS Hard White Wheat"). Thank you for doing the work so we don't have to.
I use a dinner plate or pot cover that fits my proofing bowl. Actually, I usually use one of my large pots as a my bread mixing bowl, which has a lid.
My kitchen has paper towels, plastic baggies & plastic wrap, but I try to use them as little as possible. I have no issue with plastics (as some do), but I hate "use once & throw away" products.
Herschel1738: Thank you for coming for the gadget and staying for the research. It sounds like you have all of your food prep supplies where you want them. Let us know about your adventures and successes. Jim
I knownI am late to the game with this video but My store is having Caselot sale. They have this in a 25lb bag for 7.99 for a 25 lb bag. I want to get away from processed white flour and replace for healthier. I googled which one I want to buy Red VS. White. I am getting BOTH for the price. You have showed me the difference. Thank you! Amazing Video Thank you ❤
When I bake bread it's a two-loaf task just as you made it: one loaf red, one loaf white. I prefer the white, husband prefers the red. Then again, he's a whole wheat dark bread kind of guy, and I'm more the white Wonder Bread type. I need to bake some rye bread one of these days. We both like Rye, although he'll pass on my corned beef - lol! Thank you for another fascinating presentation!
For a light rye, I use 4 oz rye and 18-22 oz AP to 1 cup water. You can make it heavier but I don’t like to. I only use 1 tbs caraway. If you want a nutty onion taste, misc some dried onion in after the first rise.
@@erinobrien3506 Thank you! I don't care for onion bread but light rye sounds too good to pass up! I'm going to get some rye flour so I can try this 🙃
@@gsdalpha1358 The recipe I love best is essentially the How to Cook Everything recipe, but I use all water, no milk, and I use all AP instead of AP and Cornmeal, and then I add a little olive oil- I think 1/8 or 1/4 cup. I do the first rise without the caraway and the dried onion, and soak those in hot water to cover in a small dish while teh first rise gets under way. Then befoer I shape the loaves, I roll out the dough and spread the caraway and onion in the bread, only kneading to mix, then form my loaf. YOu could also jsut roll it in cinnamon bread style- the flavor will still be tehre and it'd be less effort. I wait to add the herbs so that the gluten isn't torn byt the sharp seeds and onions.
Be sure to let it rise.... proof proof proof. If yo ucan find high gluten or strong flour, use that. But proof a wee longer and be patient. You REALLY want to wait until it's double in bulk.
@@erinobrien3506 That sounds AMAZING! Well, I'd have to leave the onions out to make everyone here happy. I used to be able to find bagels with everything seeds (no onion there either). It had sunflower, caraway, poppy, sesame, maybe others. Wish I'd thought to write down the ingredients - the bagels were just gone one week and haven't come back. Yes on proofing! I'm going to try using my dehydrator next time I make bread after hearing it's an *almost* fool-proof proof. Thank you for the recipe!!!
I just started on my FMF journey. Thank you for teaching us!!!
Love you so much dear lady! May the Lord bless and keep you!
Wow! I was just looking at ordering hard red yesterday and saw the white. From their description, I had already decided to go with the white. Now after watching your video, I’m convinced, hard white is right! Thank you
They both look amazing. How about the taste, was there a difference?
Exactly what I was wondering
That's my question, too.
Paula Parsons, I see they didn't answer your question. So thought since I've had both I would....YES, the red and white wheat both taste different. The white wheat is more mellow with not such a "wheat-y" flavor. Don't know how else to describe it. BUT, the flavor of fresh ground wheat, whether red or white will have a much different flavor than store bought wheat flour. Both red & white are yummy. Maybe someday you can try & see which one you like better. 😊
@@mellaniehulsey see my answer above....
@@C5Rose3 see my answer above....
I had never heard of Hard Red Winter wheat. Only Winter Wheat. Enjoyed your method of kneading and shaping dough for baking. I was waiting for Jim to appear for the taste test.
Will you please let us know how the bread tasted and if you liked it? Thank you, Donna
It's easy to grow too. Plant in late Oct, or early Nov. Scratch the ground, throw some seeds liberally, soak, and watch it germinate and grow. Waiting for my first yield.
@@petelieske517 good for you! I planted some spelt last fall for the first time. Hoping it does well. It's about 8 inches tall now...
Okay, just harvested and threshed. Do not over water wheat. Maybe one or twice a month, a small soak. Two, let it dry out before picking. It will lump over, but that's normal. Use scissors, mot snippers, to cut wheat tail, and not knife either. It's just silly when people use a knife when we have easy to use scissors that work easy while cutting stalk.
@@petelieske517 nice! Thanks for the update! My spelt is still growing good. It's about knee high now. 🙂
Hard red spring wheat is considered the aristocrat strain of wheat. It contains the highest protein percentage of all wheat. (Btw, farmers do not call them berries. It is either grains or kernels.) Millers will take HRSW and blend in lower value wheats for their bread flowers. All soft wheats are used for pastry and misc. flours but never for loaf bread. Hard White Wheat comes in both Winter and Spring varieties (used interchangeably) and is a relatively new strain of wheat becoming more popular in the last few decades. In 2022 twenty five mmt (million metric tons of HRSW versus .5 mmt of HWW was harvested in the USA.
I tried einkorn for the first time and it made such light soft sourdough. It seemed to grind more fine in my mill.
Have you tried mixing einkorn with the hard varieties?
I've always used hard red wheat, but havn't been as happy with my loaves for making sandwich bread. Getting ready to replenish my wheat so doing research. This has the best comparison I've seen. Thanks a bunch @RoseRed Homestead.
Like you, I have used hard red for decades and only recently discovered how wonderful winter white is for making bread. It is good that we can keep learning as we age!!! LOL
I use Prairie Gold wheat flour from Montana and really love the taste. I’ll have to try hard red now. Thank you for your informative videos-I have learned so much
Mix them together it will taste amazing
I only used them mixed together
Thank you so much for doing this
I have been using your method for the half and half using white and hard red, then switched to half and half with spelt flour which we thought we liked the flavor better, now I’m going to have to grind some hard white and try it, I love the rise! I have learned so much from watching you. Appreciate all the information and methods you teach us. Thank you!
Would you do a recipe(s) using only fresh milled white and red, without the all purpose flour?
Thankyou and both loaves look beautiful! I grew up on the hard red only as well.
I made 100% red fife flat bread yesterday and it was hearty. I might mix it with all purpose if I want a lighter bread. I used yeast as well. I found a good Naan recipe with yogurt instead of yeast and going to try that next with this red fife.
I'm glad I like it as I put away many kilos of the grain.
Palouse Brand has a wonderful recipe on their blog. I use it all the time. I think it calls for hard white wheat, but I do a mixture of different types of wheat most of the time.
@@kristinanne6534 thankyou, I had not heard of them before just checking it out now. Thanks again.
@@kristinanne6534 thank you for the info, much appreciated.
You can sub in 100% hard white whole wheat for all purpose pretty successfully, but the red you need to have a couple tricks up your sleeve to help condition your dough and be prepared to let it rise longer. Kind Arthur Flour has some great tutorials.
It's amazing how the hard white doubled in size after the second rising but both loaves look great. I was hoping you'd do a taste test to see if there's a difference but I guess you already know lol.
I love that you experiment and trial for our learning. Thank you
What about the taste? This has been a revelation for me too. Thanks!
Love your video's, thanks!
I just got a new mill and tried a sourdough loaf of white wheat and a loaf of red wheat - no all purpose flour. The white made a fluffy, sandwich bread! I love it! For those who don't want "heavy" whole wheat bread it is a game changer.
What kind of mill did you get?
Loved this! Thanks Pam!
I love your hair! Beautiful.
Thank you. I appreciate this information.
Thankyou for showing this..I do believe to the hard white will be better and possibly easier to digest because it's not so compact
Thank you Ms. Pam!! I have wheat berries of all 3 kinds, i'm going to make some bread!
You are welcome. Jim
Very informative!
You are amazing!!!! I'm so excited to try this.
Appreciate you so much
Very helpful!
I love your video. Thank you for doing this.
Very helpful video. thank you!
Thank you. This was interesting.
They are both beautiful. Thanks Pam.
Thank you!
I’m so excited. As a prepper I bought a bunch of store bought flour not realizing it doesn’t keep for 25 years 😳 I’m just now educating myself on storing wheat and in the process am learning where bread comes from. I’m just an old carpenter and not someone who really cooks other than burgers, tenderloin or maybe hamburger helper and so on with a can of vegetables. This bread making is amazing. I’m now going to have to give it a try. Thanks for an amazing video. From what I’ve learned so far I ordered a small amount of soft white since I probably won’t like the real nutty flavor of red. We’ll see. Now I understand that wheat in natural form and stored properly will keep for many years. 👏👏👏👏👏🙏🏻
If it's bread you want to make it's best to purchase hard white wheat. Soft white wheat is more for cakes, muffins and biscuits. I don't know what hard red winter tastes like, I grind hard red summer and I don't taste nutty, I taste a very slight molasses flavor.
Soft white is good for cookies or cakes, I’m told.
Interesting!
thank you so very much for this video. amazing. thanks
I bought three more 5 pound bags of the King George all purpose flour after I saw the video a week ago and you recommended it. Thanks for the heads up.👍
I like a lees dense bread, so I am buying the white wheat berries! Omg, thank you so much for this video!!
Very informative. Thank you!
You are welcome.
The bread looks great ! I would eat a slice of each with some butter Yum !!
Thanks a million, for such an awesome video.
I learned more from than you will ever know ❤
Thank you Pam.
gŕeat information thank you
thanks you answered all my questions!!!
We are happy to help. Jim
I am glad you are doing this video, I have always wondered about the flavor difference!
Thank you for all you do. God bless you!
Shelia: Your welcome! Jim
I started out using hard white….and eventually switched to a 1/2 Kamut 1/2 Einkorn mix to grind and make bread. Delicious!! In fact, I’m out of bread and need to bake tomorrow! Good reminder.
I have always mixed the white and red for the best taste.
Thank you. I wondered this too.
Glad it was helpful!
All things considered, the white had a developmentental head start with each step. It began rising while you mixed the red dough. It also had additional proof time while you kneaded & formed into the loaf pan the red. I would guess the white had an additional 20-30min overall developmentental head start. Repeat with a timer & weigh each loaf before forming to pan
For context, I press my own oil, culture my own yeast, & mill 100% of my own grain (Mockmill 200 Professional). I keep on hand all USA organic hard & soft white, hard red winter, Einkorn, Durum wheat. My corns are Blue, Purple Kculli, & Bloody Butcher.
I love your videos, Pam...and I'm a dude! 😆 You have been a great help (purveyor of ideas) for me and my family in the forefront of these [likely] upcoming hard times. God Bless!
Brilliant Thank You cheers from Pennsylvania Blessings 👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏
Wanda: Our pleasure! Jim
Missed the taste test.love the video
Did I understand you to mean you "prefer" the hard white mix instead of the red? I love these types of videos. Thank you so much!
Awesome job!!! Thank you for sharing!!! Really needed to see this because I have both wheat berries. Blessings!!!
Fantastic video! I want to buy wheat berries in bulk for long time storage but had no clue as to which one to buy. Now I know I’ll love the white soft fluffy ones
Oh dear! British here! Get some butter; and butter them up and give a taste...the proof of the pudding is in the eating...cheers
I always use both hard together but I love spelt a lot!!
Your test inspires me. I will use this in my weekly baking.
I have converted over to white winter wheat for most of my bread making.
I literally was just talking to a neighbor/farmer who has lots of both, and now I know which I am going to stock up on. I already have a 5 gallon bucket of red wheat, so I am going to pile up the white wheat.
I have to say, more often than not, you have produced a video on time to answer one of the many burning questions I have. I would say 'get outta my head', but it is working out great and I thank you!
God bless you Rose Red Homestead :)
Was hoping you would taste it. Both looked delicious
This was amazing. I've never used red wheat myself but now I want to try some just to compare myself.
I enjoyed this video, anxious to try the white wheat now. Thank You !!! We never to old to learn something new. 😍✝️💟
Wow great video, I have learnt so much from your channel.
So glad to hear that, Lyn. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you for sharing this comparison, and for the time and effort you and your husband put into making all these informative, wonderful videos for the rest of us. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Brenda: Thank you! Jim
Thank you.. the side by side comparison helps me better understand which wheat berries to stock up on more for my family's taste
Love your videos! Hard red is hard to come by now and winter white will be better than nothing!
I love your videos and have learned an incredible amount. I make bread with confidence every week now and have passed on the knowledge to my daughter. Thank you!
Thank you, that sounds fantastic! Jim