1 Con Rod with 4 Pistons 🤯 How Ducati Elenore 868 Engine Works in 3D
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2022
- In this video we analyze the engine with a connecting rod and 4 pistons.
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#pistons #conrod #ducati #3danimation #repairman22 #turbo #speed #motorbike #cars #engine - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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hey, have you seen that engine sound simulation software that your fellow peer AngeTheGreat made?
if not, you can program some pretty accurate sounding engines with visuals too. for some of the more obscure engines out there, this could be a great tool for your use case here. it's just kinda tricky to learn the program.
I think something like this would be great for radio controlled models and racers.
Where is the link to his videos
Wow, that poor guy. What an innovative smart dude. It’s a shame he got hurt and disabled, but it is certainly admirable that he still made those motors and got them running!
guess happened when ass hit moving ground clothes grabbing ground so too muc force went up spine. so bike clothes need a padded slippery iron ass plate that can skid and pad takes shock kinda stiff dense foam mabe inch thick or two
@mind fornication Or just don't be an idiot and ride a motorcycle on ice.
@@orangestoneface The air bag jackets are the way to go I think. They protect your spline without being overly restrictive. Though this wreck he didn't leave the bike until he nearly hit the ground, so I am not sure how effective it would have been. It wasn't really the bad of a wreck, just some bad luck there. Most would have walked away with a few scrapes.
@@mindfornication5103 No thanks. I prefer having fun in my life :3
*engines.
What a guy! While a simpler design is always preferable, nothing can beat the elegance and ingenuity of an overcomplicated mechanical solution. Even if it's not actually better, it's still a win for the fact he did this all himself.
It's not a question of 'why' but rather 'why not'.
Definitely has the cool factor. Also a good way to cram a reasonably sized 8 cylinder engine into a bike.
Us germans in a nutshell
"...simpler design is always preferable..."
Agreed, but this engine is not much more complicated then a conventiontal 4 cylinder:
2 additional Rockers + 4 Rods but only a Single Main-Rod (like in a Single cylinder) wich allows a shorter and much simpler crank.
The pivot-points are an issue as each has to take full pressure but also take away power and effeciency, durability might be questionable.
This is a fun proof of concept for a mechanical geek who is enamored with unnecessary clockwork.... so I get it.
I stop short of calling it a good design though, as durability will be lacking. This has all the potential power of a 4-banger without the biggest benefit of an actual 4-banger.
The 4 position crank is the heart of the beast.... This has all the spirit without the strong heart.
But kudos for getting it up and running, with good numbers!
"why" but rather "why not". Which engineer thinks like that. Might as well put a window on the windscreen as well.
Here's an important consideration that has not been discussed here: One of the issues that increases friction in an engine is the sideloads on a piston when the crankshaft is anywhere other than top or bottom dead centre, and of course this also results in piston and cylinder wear over time. This friction against the sidewall of the cylinder is significant. The Comma van had a diesel engine that had a similar principle where the conrods with pistons at one end went to rocker arms instead of directly to the crankshaft, and at the other end of the rocker arms was a conrod that connected to the crankshaft. What this meant was that the sideloads were transferred to a rotary bearing rather than a sliding bearing (the piston in the cylinder) and that reduced friction. This could work a similar way if the con rods connecting each piston to its associated rocker arm were a bit longer so there was less side-loading of the pistons.
And let’s hope the pistons don’t poke out of the bottom of the cylinders like the animation shows.
@@preachers4135 yeah that looks sketchy as hell. All it has to do is overtravel one time and the engine becomes a grenade
2&3 possible more 3&4 no worse than a Normal engine. I say possibly on 2&3 because the 1/4 cylinders moving the other direction connected by the teeter totter arm their connection rods are hooked too. I do not ever see this coming into production at least not in a big 4 stroke engine. That sid a small two stroke it might be okay and save enough weight to make it worth the change. One thing that could be interesting is if 1&4 set further away from 2&3. You could make those two cylinders taller and a longer stroke because the teeter totter fulcrum could be offset so the outside cylinders would have not only a longer stroke but more leverage than it it is centered. Do that in a 2 stroke and it might make pretty cool two stroke. It could have a short stroke and long stroke. Of course every other stroke would be more powerful.
Don't take me too serious as I am going down a rabbit hole after a gummy several hours ago. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
But either way I don't think it would last as long as a traditional engine would be. But it is neat to see people build things with their hands that do work. For a guy to repurpose old engines into something different is pretty cool.
tldr
@@hksp Sorry? Not sure what that means
I think you're entirely correct, hard to see any obvious large advantages for the solution. To add something, the crankshaft would have all four power cycles applied to a single point and that can't be good for fatigue.
It is an interesting take on a 4s though. Maybe could find some advantage inside another packaging concept?
Yeah, I don't get it. I can't see how the 2 outer pistons contribute to power production at all. All they appear to do is power the compression stroke of the 2 inner pistons, something the crankshaft flywheel effect does already and without the additional friction and weight/complexity of those additional cylinders, pistons and rocker arm.
What am I not understanding here?
@@holdernewtshesrearin5471 They push the rocker which in turn pulls up on the main con rod, transferring force to the crank shaft.
Some of the force also powers the compression stroke, but that’s the same on any engine, except normally the forces are transmitted through the crank.
@@JPEight - Roger that. Yes I see that now. Thanks.
The outer Pistons are pulling the single piston rod upwards and the inner pistons Are pushing downwards both push and pull brings the same power which converts into rotation of the crankshaft
Actually their might be an advantage.
I'd have to model it.. But it does look like 2nd order vibrations are cancelled out.
Effectively the velocity of the pistons moving up the bore are directly tied to the pistons moving down negating the deceleration mismatch in the bottom 180 deg of crank rotation from the accelerating pistons in the top half of the bore ( top 180 deg ) of crank rotation...
On bigger 4 piston engines this might negate the need for counter rotating balance shafts.
However this might account for the power loss, as the burn rate on the outside pistons will have a different profile from the inner two pistons.
Interesting never the less.
Your channel is severely underrated. I hope you get the support you deserve!
Very clever man, fantastic engineering skills
This is one of those engines that will be almost forgotten but in like 100 years someone re-discovers it and brings it back 👏👏👍this is an amazing concept and inovation and the fact that he did it on his own is even more amazing
I’m still waiting for for someone to bring back the Napier Deltic.
At least we’ve got stuff like the connaught v10 to be excited about.
Not really, this is just classic german over engineering that doesn't actually make the performance any better.. If anything it just makes it more liable to break.
Hell almost all gas engines will be all but forgotten by then. That is provided we don't kill mankind clean off the face of earth by then.
This is genius! The main connecting rod is always being pushed and pulled in a direction that never sees heavy force, the fulcrum con rod is pulling it up on its up stroke, and pushing it down on its down stroke. According to this animation. The force it sees is at an absolute minimum. Which this set up the only thing that could be weak is are the mains and rod bearings but being so few would be easy to keep lubricated. Bloody brilliant.
What an accomplished man! I am not a mechanical engineer but have a strong interest in engine design and feel the radial design shows the most initial commercial success although just about any reasonably practical design can be made good if enough money is thrown at it. I think it is so difficult to get away from existing designs from a build cost / power output basis and of course all the emissions rules. I hope this man will still bless us with his design ideas.
it has more friction points than a conventional engine, so basically it was a novelty design.
Classic german over engineering that makes it more likely to fail.
Exactly what i was thinking. Clever, but a dead end.
But the total surface feet per minute of bearing surfaces is greatly reduced.
@@Eluderatnight Exactly, it's not the number of surfaces, it's the surface feet per minute and also force. So the side-loading of the pistons is potentially significantly reduced (see my top-level comment) as another factor as well as reduced bearing area.
But less side friction between the piston and cylinder, less reciprocating mass and less loss to vibration.
Declaring this design worse without tests and based on a single point at face value amongst many is in my opinion quite arrogant
Seriously cool! I am constantly amazed by the sheer variety of designs for IC engines.
But, big oil like to smash them because they like oil and gas being used up.
I've *heard* of that ghipsy engine but that's it. This is all beyond bizarre! Props for somehow finding AND 3D model animating this!
It seems like one big advantage is you have an eight-cylinder engine with a crank as short as a v-twin. Less worries about torsional stiffness.
More worrying about the system disintegrating before generating a significant specific power.
The Ducati V2 twin desmo is a fantastic engine, and a torque wizard, that lacks power.
A solution that reduces the power further, adding weight, cost and complexity, for how ingenuous, is completely useless.
The most stressful point on a connecting rod is not the combustion stroke, it is the exhaust / intake transition, where the forces accelerating the piston are felt as tension across the cross section of the small end. This design moves the bulk of those stresses from the single con rod to the twin mini con rods. The real durability issue would be across the smaller cross section of the small end of these mini con rods. It can do nothing but lower the overall durability when compared to a conventional 4 stroke.
Exactly, metal is ALWAYS much weaker in tension than compression. Plus adding power strokes that transmit the force via tension is just asking for trouble.
That’s not the most stressful, it’s being his neighbor. 😂😂😂
How about the flex in the “side” rockers? If you run any compression the piston will his the head at TDC of the breathing strokes due to beam flex and rod stretch. This isn’t new and isn’t a good idea. It was called a walking beam engine a hundred years ago, it was a failure then and still a bad idea now. Also, anybody want to calculate the stress on that single big end? How strong it would have to be to pass all the power of a V-8 through one big end and one set of mains? The WWII radial aircraft engines passed all the power of a “row” of cylinders through a single rod, true, but they seldom spun over 3K rpm. Oh yeah, they also had guys like my father rebuilding them after (relatively to a street car) very few hours of operation.
I remember hearing about the Stern idea awhile back which was interesting but ultimately too complex for real usability. Somehow this one slipped under the radar for me, and at least as an engineering exercise goes, is the more interesting one to follow. Provided materials are up to par, the exciting bit is it's significantly smaller packaging envelope potential. I can't see it being equal regardless of cylinder count on torque potential, but having a full blown 8 cylinder engine in a bike that takes a portion of the room as an I4 with perhaps less material weight overall is intriguing to say the least.
Seems like a very smooth 4 cylinder.
Amazing.
Very complex - I wonder about longevity - but this is a brilliant bit of engineering.
The fact that it even works is proof of latent potential.
I see high reciprocating mass gains, as well as total engine size, and an increase in parts. Neat, but not used because fewer parts = fewer failures, less weight, reduced production time, etc…
I remember seeing an arrangement like that in b&w photos in a book…
My initial thoughts on this is that the decrease in Mass from removing the extra Conrods could result in a slight efficiency improvement.
This feels like an innovative solution to a problem that doesn't exist... a very interesting concept.
The 2 problems i can see is the sound and vibrations of low end single cylinder engines... 4 cylinder engines always sound good.. and cancel out vibrations.
@@swapnilmankame Yes, but you could just make a four cylinder engine.
I'm not sure it saves that much space, and if you're willing to go to such extremes because of packaging constraints, a 90° V4 is also balanced, and sounds incredible.
I have a Honda Magna V30 I'm in the middle of fixing up and it has to have my favorite engine sound _of all time._
It makes me wish my four wheeled Honda felt half as alive... even if it meant requiring major engine repair to reach 230k. I would replace piston rings _myself_ for that beautiful little V4 to live on and make someone else happy for a while. If old ironsleeves loses compression, I'll dig its grave.
You'd think the engine with a brain would act more alive. I guess a carburetor can't go senile.
This cylinder design basically changes a V8 to the crankshaft dynamics of a 2 cylinder steam engine. with power stokes acting on every extension and retreaction of the two con rods (a power stroke every quarter turn). Ultimatly I belive it didn't take off since it doesn't really provide any benifit over a standard V8 design, since it doesn't reduce the number of moving parts or the complexity of machining the engine block. it is an interesting mechanism, but not much more. Obvs props to the inventor, hopefully he continues his development, and will eventually create something that genuinly can be used to improve ICEs in the future.
awesome proof of concept, if anything.
One disavantage is the almost doubling of the distance from crankshaft to piston. Very tall enginge.
Not great for packaging but long rods bring their own advantages like lower thrust forces on the piston and more equal acceleration of the piston at the top and bottom halves of the stroke.
I would have thought it would have been lighter .. I’m so happy someone is still developing a combustion engine .. long live
That’s brilliant, just goes to show that not all engines are designed by hundreds of experts, just a guy in a shed!! Well done to him.
Yes, just one expert this time…
God bless this dude! Making the most of his life!
Thank you for sharing another very interesting video! I've heard about these engines before, but not in depth like you explain. Thank you!
First time heard about this engine. Quite interesting design and what a great mind and engineer to build all the other engines, bikes, etc.
What a great bloke, I love your work Dieter.
Amazing. I love the first honda prototype, it sounds so good
pretty cool design, thanks for sharing!
Now that is a very interesting concept.
Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting idea. And an impressive range of modified engines. Could be a long lost brother of Allen Milliard.
Man... somebody invest in this dude. I am blown away.
Wow . . Fascinating. . Thank you 👍
I think 4cyls just always sound great. Just picked up a cb400 for my 2nd bike 😍😍😍
when the steam engine came up on the end of it's useful life, the engineers tried everything to keep them relevant. The ICE engine is at that point today. It was an amazing device when you think that it is a machine that moves us around by using explosive liquid and it does it so quietly that we do not think of the explosions but like steam, explosive propulsion is on it's last legs. We do not need any more iterations of the ICE. We are moving on from there. Steam was great and ICE was great and hats off to both of them. They both get a statue in the square.
Incredible talented man, a true mechanical engineer…and biker !!!
This is amazing! What a bloke!
Hadn't heard hide nor hair of this engine before, but what an interesting take! Like Honda's oval piston design which was meant to mimic the advantages of a V-8 in a GP bike, Wirthwein's engine may not be an advance over the typical piston engine, but it's genius anyway. It also might lead someday to a practical and superior engine to what we have now. Interesting engineer and a well-done video.
Engine would be great for the uk market where if you don't have your full licence you can only do 94bhp with a restrictor
Very interesting and entertaining. Thank you.
The first rule in engineering is KISS , and most engineers know what that stands for! Great that the idea works, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!
Something the German engineers forgot. You want over engineered, buy a German bike or car.
@@kolsen6330 Agree, I have BMW motor bike, and it is definitely over engineered, but then again , all modern motor cycles are the same, far too much unnecessary and expensive technology in them. Can no one design something simple anymore? apparently not!
I have not seen this before, very cool.. It introduces a lot of pivot points, all subject to wear..
its a lovely sounding engine
Engines with rockers have been successful before, look at the Commer/Rootes TS3 3 cylinder 6 piston two stroke diesel from the 1950s. These engines really proved the concept but 2 strokes are too hard to comply with current emissions.
Two stroke petrols using crankcase compression yes, but two stroke diesels do not use crankcase compression so emissions are the same as four stroke diesels, they use a blower to push the air in so any overlap of intake/ exhaust timing its just air that gets blown out, which by diluting the gases reduces the measured emissions!, there have been petrol two stroke designs that use a secondary piston for air flow negating the need for oil in the fuel and these have emissions the same as four strokes, but at greater complexity and expense than a traditional two stroke design, whatever you do you never get something for nothing!.
Wow, this guy is amazing. He really didn’t have a key fob in his life even after this hard throwback that you suffer. Go on dieter!
The most interesting takeaway from this is the potential to add cylinders and displacement to smaller engines by driving multiple pistons off each existing con-rod. It's probably too expensive to bring to market as it would be easy to swap an entire engine as it would be to retrofit this system
I don't see how the packaging can be much smaller than the same pistons on a conventional crankshaft
@@Jo-rz6bs It's not that the packaging would be any smaller but it would allow you to add cylinders to small v engines/single cylinders.
Interesting idea. On the geared cam drive for the radial: all the WWII radial aircraft engines that used cams to actuate valves* had reduction geared camshafts. Often they were geared to 1 turn to the 4 for the crankhshaft, 1:4. They could do this because the cam rings were quite large, and by spinning the cam so slowly, they could make use of really aggressive cam profiles.
*the exception being the sleeve-valve engines, which didn't use cam-actuated poppet valves, at all. Reliable though being monstrously complex, they didn't offer any real adantages over poppet valves.
That’s really ingenious
That was pretty damn good
This is similar to the Pendulum Engine, which had such low friction it used no oil. It was adapted & it's used in air compressors, oxygen pumps can produce clean air for medical/hospital/scuba
That’s actually pretty awesome 😎
Ingenious minds pushing boundaries , exploring improbable tangents.
How cool. I'd like to see it as a two stroke
Be interesting to get some valve area from all that additional space that is now available, And having the push/pull should allow for an interesting power delivery. Looks like a lot of potential in that concept, for the automotive , snowmobile, even boat world. Simply because of all the additional area for moving air now available.
He got it to run, although it sounds a bit lumpy, I think it was something to pass the time.
This is awesome! We might need to talk about about what a "lawnmower" is, though. 😆
one advantage is that there should be less friction between piston and cylinder since piston goes up and down and almost no other forces are involved (at least for outer cylinders). also i guess it could be lighter in a similar way like radial engines are lighter.
Depends on length of the rockers vs stroke length vs mini rod length.
If the mini-rods and rockers are short then the angle of the mini-rod will be higher than a normal engine.
Same for normal engine, short rods compared to stroke makes for a lot or piston wear and more non-linear piston travel speed, but makes for a smaller lighter engine. Everything is a trade off.
@@JPEight yes but outer cylinders only use rockers so i think those would have less friction as forces do work differently than rods. maybe?
Such a shame that such a great mind will never get to experience his genius. True Innovator. Somebody help this man develop something to be able to give his projects a ride
Undoubtedly, Unique, and very original.
Good informative video
Need to send one of these engines to Garage 54 to put it through their tests.
Good idea
Being in that wheelchair, part of his body is inactive, but that area between his ears is "climbing a mountain" and contributing to the world of ingenious mechanisms/machines...Very interesting what active minds come up with...So many minds have been paralyzed by passive entertainment...
Great innovation....genius.
looks like he's still having fun
if you built the lower end of the engine much smaller since there is only 1 rod bearing journal to support and enclose with the engine block your saving a lot of weight from not having a full crankshaft and not having a full engines length of supporting metal on the engine block compared to a typical engine with four rod bearing journals. so honeslty this engine should be quite a bit lighter for its given power output similar to a rotory engine while still functioning mostly the same as a normal reciprocating piston engine. so in an application like aircraft where the weight of the engine might matter more than the absolute power of the engine this might be advantageous. and if a highly developed version of this engine did indeed have identical power to an equivelent engine with a normal crankshaft then this is superior due to lower weight.
incredible love it
genius at work.
Wow! Amazing!!!!
That certainly is a fascinating arrangement of the two outboard pistons and connecting rods. Maybe just being unconventional is enough to stop further development.
I believe this engineer is building engines for his personal fulfillment. He is obviously a person of great skills, but he is operating outside the industrial design complex; should his engines have merit, and they well could, there is no possibility for a recognition. Internal combustion engines are the most optimised devices in the world, so any improvement does require expensive test equipment - only available to industrial complexes.
Well done!
May be, seen the way the engine is laid out, it is possible to computerise the valves control, and utilise the power cycle which cause traction on the conrods, by recirculating the exhaust gases in the adjacent couple of cylinders - so to extract a 1 - 2 % more efficiency from the engine...
That’s awesome
Its cool i wonder about crankshaft balance fore and aft. Alot of linkages but they can be reliable like wristpins. He is a mechanical genius for sure.
Really like my Korean made gold top. Also play USA Fender J and P basses so they act as good benchmarks. I think the Epi can easily hold its own against the P, but the J does have a wider tonal range as expected from the 2 PUs. Issues: it has pretty pronounced neck dive but swapping for lightweight tuners can help. The strap button location at the neck heel instead of on the upper bout also contributes to poor balance. Glossy neck is sticky but light sanding with 1000 grit paper fixes that. I also swapped the pretty ordinary 3 point bridge for a Hipshot and now have a brilliant looking, great sounding hollow body bass.
If I understood correctly the causes of second order vibration in a straight four, this design can solve it, since all the pistons have the same acceleration.
I am totally fascinated by his work! Makes me want to get off my lazy butt and create something new.
Seems like it would put a great deal of stress on that one or 2 crank bearings and would need to have them replaced often. It would probably be more practical for racing than daily drivers. I'd like to see how complicated those components are to maintenance.
As a Honda guy I have never felt so much anxiety looking at this design
Never seen anythig like it. Just an exercise in different strokes for different folks
Soo smooth.. silent.. 👍
Great invention with a creative mind......
I have total respect for what the guy has done, but I feel sorry for the neighbours, they have to listen to the loud motor noise. He should probably do it somewhere else.
Now I wanna build one
Smooth running motor.
Very interesting!
Wow that's a very smart person. It's just so cool to have an idea and actually make the invention I'm sure you have to have money for that. So I'm glad this person had the brains and the money to do it so more power to you Mr. DIETER..
I like the neighbours window bit, He's doing gods work - now to the design - I like it, I know in aircraft you want More power but this is Light power.
A single big end to Explode at 10,000 feet makes me feel just so much better, I mean if you build the crank right it's going to hang on and if you balance the 4 out by making it an 8 it's even better. I like the design and if we ever got to sit in a workshop for a week or two I think it would be exciting.
I think that there are little or no advantages to that single rod engine. There is about the same amount of friction and the torsion is just moved to different points of the crankcase making the engine more top heavy.
Wow amazing
Nice !
I see the main Conrod experiencing an alternating side loading.
Yes I don't like that. The force vector is at an angle to the crank, so the inner pistons will be seeing a sideways thrust as well as the conventional thrust forces from a conrod. A great deal of care would need to be taken with clearances to ensure there is no binding of either pistons or rod bearing as the engine heats up
I love how he uses his infusion stand for the fuel bottle
The main issue with the engine from the thumbnail is that the power is being transferred through one single connecting rod instead of 4. It does make the rotating assembly much more simple, and probably more reliable due to less moving parts and simple to produce. And if there is a lubrication problem and your rod bearings get destroyed and it throws the rod, then you’re basically screwed because that’s the only rod
Pretty cool. Even if it’s not better, it’s very fun and satisfying to stretch your mind and make things. I do the same but no where near what he’s doing.
I'd love to have the four cylinder replacement for my little Honda clone. Very interesting design!
Did anyone notice how, in the clip at the end, Dieter is using his hospital drip stand to hang up the bottle of fuel for his engine? 😂
This engine seems fun
Awesome invention or innovation!