Offgrid County-Level Communication - No Random Contacts Series
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- In this installment of "No Random Contacts" we are setting out to establish a 41 mile VHF simplex contact to a known quantity in my network of known operators. We'll even try a couple of radios and antennas.
0:00 Introduction
0:35 Mission Objective
2:40 Test 1 - VX-6 at 5w with rubber duck
3:13 Test 2 - VX-6 at 5w with Comet BNC-24
3:48 Test 3 - VX-6 at 5w with Arrow II Yagi
4:29 Test 4 - FT-2980 at 5w with Arrow II Yagi
5:58 Test 5 - FT-2980 at 10w with Arrow II Yagi
7:02 Test 6 - FT-2980 at 30w with Arrow II Yagi
8:00 AM Test 7 - FT-2980 at 80w with Arrow II Yagi
9:15 After Action Report - What we did
9:54 After Action Report - How we did it
10:50 After Action Report - Our Stations
12:32 After Action Report - Test Recap
18:07 Mast & Arrow II Yagi
20:14 Close
21:36 Bonus Elmer Audio
SUPPORT
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GEAR SHOWN
1. Yaesu FT-2980R - amzn.to/3yLqbSv
2. Yaesu VX-6R - amzn.to/3yjKoyb
3. Coment BNC-24 - www.dxengineering.com/parts/c...
4. SMA-to-BNC adapter - amzn.to/3EqudTN
5. Arrow II Yagi - www.gigaparts.com/arrow-anten...
6. Arrow II Mounting bracket - www.arrowantennas.com/main/mb...
7. Mr. LongArm Pro-Lok 8.4-ft to 23.2-ft - www.lowes.com/pd/Mr-LongArm-P...
#thetechprepper #offgrid #hamradio #norandomcontacts
I'm in the Florida panhandle and we're setting up a GMRS group independent of the county govt. GMRS because it's easy for average Joes and non govt because. Five years ago, our community was absolutely hammered by Hurricane Michael, sustained winds of 140 mph with higher gusts and we're twenty-five miles inland. At that time, most of the land around town was pine forests and the storm blew them down. We were cut off for four days until FDOT could clear the two roads into town. We were without water for a week until the city could get the pumps running again and then it was only on for a couple of hours in the morning and evening. The storm took out the grid from the transmission lines all the way down to the house. It took the coop a couple of weeks to truck in large generators and enough repairs to start getting the power grid back up. My house was without power for 27 days. The county banned alcohol sales but fortunately, I had some preps and friends in low places. The Verizon tower was the only tower that didn't blow down, but it was a week before they could get in to refuel the generator. Then those yahoos couldn't keep it fueled, the whole town was quiet like 1880 and you could hear it run out of gas. Only one gas station in town was open using a pump on a generator and sold gas at cost by five gallons. Every branch of my credit union was damaged, and they were down for a couple of weeks, have cash on hand. After the storm we looked out for each other and the elderly or infirmed. I appreciate your videos showing resilience with your comms. We're setting up our network with antennas we can lay down for storms and then set back up afterwards and building a solar powered repeater. The number one takeaway from that storm is you need a tribe to survive. 73 John Boy
An excellent test. I wish more hams would try these kinds of exercises.
Glad you enjoyed it. I really enjoy pushing the limits of my gear. You may enjoy my "No Random Contacts" series. It's all about selecting a target contact and selecting the best antenna system, radio and radio service for the task at hand. Cheers: th-cam.com/play/PLZpc6PnzmzmHfXxqeluz6q-rYCElhMuZa.html
Up here in Spokanistan, we have noticed that sometimes changing frequency by just a few Khz can make a huge difference in readability.
now that's an interesting finding! did u noticed any excessive noise in the bad performing frequency? wonder if this can be predicted..
There's an issue with the VX-6r that I also ran into - as time goes on, the receiver will become less sensitive. The fault lies with the crystal filter on the board - Yaesu didn't put a DC-Blocking capacitor on that, if I remember my research right. I went ahead and read up on it and replaced the filter with a lil soldering, definitely did the trick! It's also possible to add the protection of the capacitor while you're in there. I hope this gives you a direction to research for yourself with the receive sensitivity. Otherwise, thanks for the excellent content and as always, 73
Good info! Thank you! 73
This is an even bigger issue with the VX-8 where one or both receivers go completely deaf, will send fine though...
HUGE learning opportunities with your channel. I am a Newbie & simply dont get much time to “try” stuff THIS is Really Helpful info for those of us (Talk about Cost Effective).
We live in Naples FL & Well, I should have had my manpack completed but…….
Looking forward to the Bag. Sending a Pot of coffee.
A VERY SINCERE THANK YOU for what you are doing.
Btw…. You have SAVED me Big $$ with your recommendations of equipment. Hobbies get Super expensive due to Trial & ERROR. Your “testing” Almost…. replaces that for us.
Seriously, Another SOLID video!!
Big Fan here.
Morning, Eric. Glad to hear that we're all learning together. I am firm believer in experimenting and learning through failure. This really was an eye opener. I had no idea that the receive quality would be so different given the same antenna system.
I am working on the online store front for the TTP Manpack today and will be reaching out soon to everyone on the list. The admin is almost more work than designing and building the bag.
Thanks for the support. I really appreciate it...a carafe of coffee sounds good right about now.
Awesome video! Pay attention Patriots, this is for sure going to be needed in the very near future.
Completely agree. Train now and learn what's possible in your area. In my humble opinion, establishing a known network of friendlies now will go a long way.
Great video, btw. I don't think any amateur radio HT can handle the front-end overload of a high gain directional antenna, especially if it is in a busy RF area. They are just not engineered to handle that. HT's are designed for rubber duck or even extended whip antennas (mainly for repeater use). You can't expect to have the same receive with an HT (even connected to a Yagi antenna) as you can with a better built in (mono band) front end mobile radio connected to the same high gain antenna, as you proved in this video. Love your videos. Thanks for putting this out there! But you are correct to test this on simplex. Remember, when talking about vhf, height is the most important factor. Even low power (like 5 watts or less), with an efficient antenna (on a mobile radio), can do SO much better than lots of power with an inefficient antenna (like a rubber stock antenna) lower to the ground.
Another wonderful video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Excellent video and series!!!
Glad you're enjoying it. More on the way.
So good many thanks. Learning a lot of stuff here.
Glad to hear. Welcome to the channel! More info on the way.
Another great video with solid info. Much appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another good one!! I learned a lot from this one!
Glad to hear it. I plan to revisit this test very soon with other radios. I'm very curious as to the receiver quality of my other rigs. It should be enlightening.
More good info on ht reception. Thanks again!
It was an eye opener. The next video will be a field video, but I want to share this test with the audience even if it was a "shack" video.
Great experiment!
Find that "Monitor" button and open up the squelch when listening for a weak station.
Mono-band radios typically have more effective filtering and do a better job of separating weak signals from local noise. Dual-band radios compromise on this, especially compact ones. My VX-3R is terrible. Radios with broad-band receive capability are even worse because they have to have filters that let everything in.
For this reason, I really like the Icom IC-V86 and Kenwood TH-K20A for SOTA 2m activities, particularly on summits with radio sites. A band pass filter helps a lot too - maybe something worth trying with the VX-6R?
Adam! Thank you so much for lending your expertise. I was initially drawn to the VX-6 because of its wide band receive and rugged construction. It looks like the broad-band receiver has its drawbacks. A few people have recommended the SOTABEAMS bandpass filter for 2m (BPFT-100). I plan to try it out as soon as I can get my hands on one. It will be interesting to re-run this with the filter.
Fascinating. Would that mean my FT-270 mono band might receive better than my VX-8 with its wide receiver? I compared them in an urban setting
Learned a lot thanks
Another great video, thanks. I loved my 2980 so much I bought a second 😝
The FT-2980R is a very under rate rig. I am thinking about buying a second one. I love the simplicity of the design, the power and rugged construction. Enjoy!
I really enjoy your approach and scenarios. Keep it up please. 73.
Thanks, Kevin. More on the way. I have 25 more videos in the pipeline. Each with a different scenario, radio, antenna, and mode of operation. Stay tuned.
That was a super interesting experiment. The difference between the HT and the mobile unit was pretty amazing.
Nice video. Thank you again! Looking forward to your digital mode/sms video to follow
Thank you. I filmed that video yesterday and it turned out to be an interesting field adventure. I was attacked by three Chollas (i.e. jumping cactus). It'll be out next Sunday at 1300 UTC. Stay tuned!
Field testing is important. Good to demonstrate how you do it!
Field testing can be an eye opening experience. Test everything and draw your own conclusions. Glad you like the demo. Take care.
Very well Done!!! Thank you SIr
You're welcome!
exalant video vary well done young man vary informative
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have the older version of the radio, its been a great addition to the shack. I have made an 84 mile QSO on 10 watts while I was living in MN, I did have a great elevation on my antenna which helped. Great video, you have to test the gear...I have the VX8 and love it as well.
Thank you for the information!
Any time!
2m side band could use less power for that range, if you have the equipment
That has been my experience too. I regularly make 100+ mile contacts on 2m USB with a fraction of the power (5-20 watts). The trick is finding others that have the equipment. We are lucky that we have a good 2m SSB community in the Arizona.
a great test and demo for us. I was surprised the base station was alot better with the same yagi and power! 🍻🤓
Yep, that blew my mind, too. In my particular case, it completely removed the noise on my end when switching the base/mobile rig. This is part of the reason why I enjoy running these experiments and sharing them with you want the community.
interesting! recently did something similar in the mountains. The Yagi really bridges the gap. But I think the Bonus ElmerAudio was clarifying about the HT filters being overloaded by the gain created on rx. It makes sense and I better understand some of the nuances in my communication on that experiment. The other thing that is interesting, your HT is such high quality unit but still wasn't performing like the base rig. Really cool demo Gaston. Thank you again.
Very well done
Thank you very much!
I too have the FT2980 radio and also using it as a base station. Mine too draws 11 amps on high power at least according to my power supply. Great video sir thumbs up!
Glad you like it! You have great taste in radios. ;-)
The bonus audio clip from your Elmer makes sense actually. The larger the body of a radio the more room it has. Since handhelds are smaller in size to be extremely portable they will have less filtering than the larger radios built for mobile, portable, and base station use. I have a Diamond dual band NR770HBNMO antenna on my truck and I was a BaoFeng UV-5r handheld as a mobile until I got a microphone for my old Alinco 2 meter mobile. I was able to hit the local repeater from about 10 to 12 miles away using a handheld. Now that I have a working microphone for my mobile I am sure I can reach repeaters 20 miles away.
Great test!
Glad you liked it! It's always great when you learn something new. Happy Sunday!
I'd love to see the same test with the FT-60, 818 and other radios you have. Fascinated to see how they would all stack up against each other.
I'm looking at getting an Ed Fong DBJ-1 base antenna for my FT-60 as a stopgap until I can get a dedicated VHF/UHF base station. My ham club actually just did an exercise last night and we found that while whip antennas are okay, they are sometimes inconsistent
It's on the list. I'll be testing the FT-857D and FT-8900R in addition to the FT-60R and FT-818ND. We'll revisit this later in the series. In fact, we are going to revisit most of these episodes.
@@TheTechPrepper Really useful to me is FT857d Thanks, N8VY
I like your no random contacts series. To me this is the interesting part of ham radio. Trying random things to reach random anonymous people just seems weird to me.
Good test, fair findings
Glad you enjoyed it
Too bad Murphy didn't know this stuff. Thanks for putting this out. Subbed.
Thanks for the sub!
Interesting test! It would be a hard thing to test, but in a grid down situation there would be fewer background noise sources. One would think simplex communications would be possible at lower power levels.
The noise is pretty low in my area, but the other station was in the middle of the city. Thanks for the comment and view. Take care.
Thanks for all you do brother! Mike, KC8OWL
Mike! It's great that you stopped by. Cheers, my friend.
Ham GPS app is a good way to point yagi antennas via the virtual camera. And find a reference point in the landscape via the camera of the phone. Keep the good content!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'll have to check it out.
The power of the mobile is a no brainer, the rx sensitivity is a little surprising to me but does make sense given the larger size
Awesome!!!!!!!
This was a very interesting experiment. Thanks for uploading, I found your channel and subscribed because of it. It surprised me to learn that at sea level, the horizon is only about 3 miles away (assuming you are between 5 and 6ft tall. Height above ground of the antenna is a major factor in RF propagation. Don’t have this conversation with a flat-earther though 😂
Welcome! Yeah, the line-of-sight formula requires that you know the radius of the earth and the height above ground. Flat earther's are misinformed. ;-)
learned alot 🙏 ty
Glad to hear it. We're running this test again. Stay tuned.
Another great vid, cant wait for emcomm tools to be released! After i first got licensed at the end of nov 2021, i was trying to use microsoft access to make an offline searchable fcc database, and after a few tries trying to import from the txt file i downloaded to excel, and then to access it was just bogging the laptop down to where it wouldnt finish. So really excited to see emcomm tools come to fruition, and super excited to try it out once its released!
Welcome to the hobby. Kudos to you for trying to build your own offline call lookup database. EmComm Tools does so much more than just offline call lookups, but I tend to use that one feature more than the other capabilities. The project is very much delayed, so it's looking at 2023 release. Take care.
@@TheTechPrepper agreed. It was my first attempt but just the fact it solved one item on the checklist, as well as beyond what i would have thought could be written into a single offline app. Sounds like it will be an invaluable tool for anyone whos prepping for a grid down scenario. Keep up the incredible work! Take care
@@codygingery1495 Will do. Thanks. I am working on the peer-to-peer messaging and encryption capabilities now. Secure comms is a tool that I am trying to build now just in case I need it later.
This is blowing my mind. I have a Yaesu VX-6R, too. It never occurred to me that a mobile radio would be able to receive a 2m signal with so much more clarity. Obviously, it doesn't put out as much power, but I expect the receiving to be very similar, when connected to the same antenna.
I am going to re-run this test with a newly purchased VX-6R and another connector. I want to confirm that there's isn't some other factor at play. We'll test a number of other radios, too. This blew my mind. Stay tuned for another follow up video.
Excellent content, so thanks for posting. I, myself, am a strong proponent of collinears, and every radio amateur should be aware of that configuration for the higher bands (e.g., 5' and 10' 2m/70cm configs . . . taller antennas are also produced). As with the hand-held whips, the radiation pattern is omnidirectional (so the receiving station's bearing need not be known), but the collinears provide _elevation_ gain, greatly reducing high-angle radiating (typically of little benefit) in favor of a much more horizontal pattern. 73 de AB3ZI
Glad you enjoy the content. I appreciate you sharing your experience. We are revisiting this exercise from the receiver side only so that I can properly test all my HT's and mobile rigs. This test set off a few alarm bells for the viewers...myself included.
I find it Very interesting that the FT2980 received better than the VX6. The FT1900, 2900, and 2980 are not generally very good receivers. The FTM6000 is considerably more sensitive. So much so that during the Winterheat simplex contest this past January I found myself transmitting on the 2980 and listening on the 6000. I have a VX6R as well. I find it to be more sensitive on UHF than on VHF. However it’s the reverse on the 3DR
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll have to run the receive test on the FTM-6000R. I've had very good reception on my 6000. Take care.
Good video. I should have commented on this earlier, but just re watched the video. I also have heard about problems with a filter or other piece of the electronics in the VX-6 that causes loss of sensitivity and I believe it is because it allows the frequency to drift. One tech said it is because of the compromise they had to make in design to fit everything into such a small package. You would most likely never know when just dealing with strong signals. Yours may be fine or not, but I'd sure check into it. There was a huge difference between the VX-6 and the 2980. While I would expect the base to do better, that difference was a big one. Having read about this problem from several different radio techs was the deciding factor in me sticking with the FT-60. But then I live in Idaho, not sweating as much as you AZ. boys.....lol.
Thanks. I still have four FT-60's and find myself switching between the VX-6R depending on the need. I recently picked up the FT-270, which is discontinued. It's as if the VX-6R and FT-60R had a baby. It's 2m only, but submersible and it takes the same batteries as the FT-60. The audio quality is much better than the VX-6R which makes sense as it's a mono band rig. Cheers.
We are doing the same scenario but with GMRS and yagi antennas, already talked simplex 15 miles. One person had a 6 element yagi and the other person had a comet 712efc antenna. We are working at setting these shacks up this way to communicate. The only major issues is installing antennas high as possible to reach over buildings and trees. Here in Louisiana there is a lot of both. But those yagi antennas are great for this purpose.
That's great to hear. I am working on a very similar setup to yours now that I am getting my GMRS license. Cheers from Arizona. Keep up the good work.
Your experience with the 2980 comparing to HT's mirrors mine. I don't think the 2980 gets the credit it deserves, but I get it - it's built like a workhorse, not a sexy racehorse (i.e. no bells and whistles). Good test Gaston, I like that you keep pushing your (and our) knowledge base forward.
Morning, Troy. Thanks for the confirmation. I should have realized this sooner, but I am glad to have stumbled upon this. That's another great reason why experimentation is needed. The FT-2980 is a great work horse. Personally, I use it as a dedicated 2m packet station for Winlink, APRS and the occasional BBS.
Good video I looked the yaesu digital but I went with a dmr radio. I liked the s6 tho
The results were what i expected...bear in mind i don't know your terrain/topography....a big factor in VHF/UHF and of course, SHF. We used to do a lot of these Simplex VHF FM emergency comms. tests, back in the day when was involved heavily in ARES, before moving abroad, to become an expat American.. Not surprised about reception quality of the HT... ! The receiver's front end on that is vulnerable.
I have use o-rings of the right size (amazon) to maintain the water resistance when using my Icom 52 HT and it works.
Gaston, you hit it out of the park again with another excellent video.
Beware, your SMA connectors has a lifecycle of about 1000 cycles. I wore out the SMA connector on my VX7R, the quad band version HT.
It can be repaired by replacing the SMA connector on the board. You have to bend a soldering tip by about 60 degrees. It takes more skill than I have to do the repair.
Do your research, but I believe the quadrupling of power to effectively double percieved signal is applicable to isotropic radiators and other near omindirection antennas. Yagi and other directional antennas cheat by reducing the radiation pattern.
In our local monthly simplex exercises we sometimes play with 2m SSB. The results are usually a bit mixed, but we typically are vertical and not horizontal. I suspect that running all stations horizontal SSB would show a more consistent improvement of vertical FM.
I was aware of the VX7R of having poor selectivity and being overloaded easily from adjacent channel signals, but I was not aware that modest Yagi antennas significantly contributed to the problem. I may have to rethink my next foray into satellite communications.
Intellectually I love DMR, but never use it. It just doesn't float my boat like straight SSB or FM simplex.
However, I think you might enjoy doing a similar test using a DMR walkie talkie. The test I have seen show noticeable improvement in quality of communication and some improvement in range. Any digital voice mode could be used. I chose DMR as it is cheap and it seems to be the most widely supported. Fusion and D-Star seem to be a bit faddish niche modes compared to DMR.
A possible percieved benefit of digital voice is greater security due to fewer ears capable of listening. The same goes for less used bands like 6m, 1.25m, 33cm, and 23cm. Its all about what you are planning for and who you want to talk to.
41 miles with a 16ft and 25ft high vertical antennas is impressive.
Again, another great video!
Morning, Viron.
As always, thanks for jumping into the comments. I am painfully aware of the life-time of the SMA connector. It hurts my soul every time I have to unthread that connector.
I personally run 2m SSB a lot as we have two nets every week. The performance is amazing and I make contacts locally and throughout most of the state (120+ miles) with very low power. I use the same Yagi antenna, mast and feed line, with the only exception that I rotate the Yagi to be horizontally polarized. In fact, I also use my EmComm Tools software to lookup each call sign as we make our way through the net. It's a fun game of running back to the mast and re-orienting the beam with the compass.
I agree with you on the security by obscurity. The Baofeng army likely does not have 2m SSB capabilities. This is another reason why I love the VX-6R. It's nice knowing that I can back down the power on my VX-6 and use 222 MHz for a little more privacy.
Take care!
@@TheTechPrepper If it wasn't a waterproof connection you could use an SMA to BNC adaptor but the desert hikes make sure you sweat.
excellent video. I've been wanting to build a foldable yaggi for 70cm using rabbit ear type antennas screwed into an extendable boom. I don't think there is a commercially built one available. 2m yaggi is kind of big to bring into the field.
It's big, but I primarily use this in the field for my 2m SSB work. It actually packs down fairly compact and I don't have any issues running it up and down mountain tops. I have done a few videos with this setup. It would be nice to have a foldable 2m design for faster deployments. I have a 70cm folding Yagi that I picked up from Terminal Armament which still needs more testing.
Last February the Oak Forest ARC did a POTA at Stephen F Austin SP 50 miles W of H-TOWN. Tried a new J-pole. Could hit repeaters W of Houston on 90 on 2980. The Arrow and 2980 could let Techs get into POTA.
nice BIG BOY vhf Radio...
It's an 80-watt powerhouse. Thanks.
Thanks for a very good demonstration! The Yaesu FT-8800's relative signal strength indicator is not a calibrated S meter.
Your observed received strength with power increase was valid as the FT-8800 signal strength bars are relative and do not correspond to 6 dB each.
Antenna height is a major factor in VHF/UHF communication range. For this reason, your handheld radio at ground level may have a maximum simplex range of 2-3 miles, while operating the same handheld from a rooftop will extend your line of sight and multiply your range several times. 73, de KP4MD
Thanks for the insight into the S-meter as implemented on the FT-8800. I have an FT-8900, so this is good to know. 73 de KT1RUN
I'm glad your video popped up in my feed... I'm getting more curious about simplex range... and, to top it off you're in the Valley (I live in Peoria). I have a Icom ID-5100 in my Jeep and a Icom ID-51A HT to carry around... nothing at home because of a HOA. (Well, at home I use an Openspot3 to get on D-star occassionally). I do a lot of camping, and often hear nearby repeaters no problem, it's the simplex thing that got me curious about more range. Great video showing the difference between radio, antenna, and power. When I camp solo I use the Garmin inReach mini to text my wife. Curious about your upcoming video using the radio and texting a non-HAM. Cheers and 73. Pete - KI7LIL
It's always great to meet the locals! You have yourself some great rigs. Here's early access to next Sunday's video, ad-free: th-cam.com/video/K6a2Me-KvEI/w-d-xo.html
This technique is a little brittle, but I wanted to share it anyhow. You live in an excellent spot to do what I describe in this video.
@@TheTechPrepper Thanks, and same here meeting you! We had a quick chat today on simplex, then moved to Shaw Butte while mobile. I've dabbled with APRS, but with Mobilink having supply issues, I'm waiting to get more seriously into it... I'm just using apps now that require cell signal. My Garmin inReach mini handles the communication (texting) to my wife when I camp/travel out of cell range, but, APRS would be a nice substitute to use since it's free (per message). Thanks for the video preview! I'll watch it again on Sunday when I get home from a camping trip to get more motivated about what it can do. Cheers and 73. Pete - KI7LIL
@@peterkunka2694 Morning, Pete. It was nice to connect with you on simplex while mobile yesterday. It was a rough copy on simplex, but we were likely 20+ miles apart. I'll pop a QSL card in the mail. The InReach is an excellent fail-safe option. I am doing Mt. Whitney (14,505') next week, so I am going to give APRS a try out there. Another gentleman in our hiking party has an InReach as a backup. Be safe and enjoy your trip.
FT2980rs "rock"!
Just wish Yaesu made an 80-100 watt dual bander.
Even a high wattage UHF mono band would be great.
There is no preselector in the ht so the yagi caused receiver front-end overload too. Great test for sure I have to see how far we are about.
Thanks for the additional info, Donnie. Makes complete sense.
Great show. Your videos are straight to the point and very informative.
I have a question: where are you getting your sma to bnc connectors? I want to switch over to the BNC but the connectors I keep finding have high loss and risk breaking the external sma connector on the radio.
Great info. I can't wait to see what test you run next
GMan, great demonstration of the value of high gain antennas and increased power. It would be fun to test the receive ons several HTs to know which has the best receive. Not relevant to your purposes but would be fun to know.
Morning, Dick. Glad you like it. Yes, the response is overwhelming regarding testing multiple radios on receive. I plan to revisit this video from that perspective and will try every radio I own (FT-60R, UV-5R, Kenword D710GA, FT-818ND, FT-857D, FTM-6000R and FTM-8900). I owe you and email. Happy Monday!
@@TheTechPrepper GMan, you are very busy and don't owe me anything, but thanks. Our club here is working through a lot of these issues and your testing helps us along. The line of sight issue is hard for some to accept but the NVIS approach is taking hold. Thanks for all you do. The receiver deficiency of the HT was a bit of a surprise.
This is an EXCELLENT video!
A good friend and I each have VX-6s, and we did a very similar test just 3 nights ago between the two HTs.
I concur with your friend that the receive sensitivity of the VX-6 leaves a LOT to be desired.
I'm going to get together with my friend again, and do the same experiment using my VX-8.
Note: My buddy's callsign is AEE7VY. I'm AC7AA. I elmered him into the hobby about 5 years ago. I went from Novice to Extra in 11 Months. My friend did it in 5. He just HAD to show me up, LOL! We've been close friends for the better part of 20 Years. He is now the Pastor of our Church.
I would LOVE to see more CHURCHES set up Ham Radio groups in their Congregations!
I am always on the fence about videos when I film them at home, so it's good to know that you enjoyed it. Thanks for providing your experience. A number of people in the comments are echoing the same thing regarding receiver quality. It will still be my EDC radio as there isn't anything quite as rugged for handling the demands of the backcountry in the Sonoran Desert.
I would be interested on what you discover during your VX-8 testing as I have recently acquired a VX-8DR, but have had very minimal time with it. Keep up the testing!
@@TheTechPrepper I'm putting together a small fanny Pack Go Bag. It will hold both my VX-8 and my VX-6. I love both of these radios.
@@TheTechPrepper You WILL like the VX-8.
Mine is the VX-8r. I think the DR is only a dual Band? The VX-8r is a Quad Band.I DO plan to get a second working one, because I like working odd splits. When I did Search and rescue, three of us had them. When we didn't want News Media listening in on us (They tend to use scanners in the 2 Meter Arena), We had our 8s set up to transmit on 220, and receive on 6 Meters. No one EVER found us. When we wanted a degree of privacy, that's what we'd do.
@@bruceforster3709 super interesting, thanks for sharing. What antennas did you use for transmitting on 220 and receiving on 50?
@@amateurmountainradio I bought a smiley Telescopic for 220 from HRO, and for 50 I use the Antenna that came with the VX-8.
You also have to take the polarization of the antenna in too mind. Means both of you needs to have either vertical or horizontaly antenna.
If you have different setup there will be a loss off 20 dB ( ×100).
what bag will be the one to use with the Amoloq TPA-891B that I can buy from the shelf?
What was the elevation between the 2 stations? I’m going to be doing a similar test in my area soon with the 857D. Will be interesting since it is a “wideband” radio. I am also going to see relative power needed for contact between FM and SSB
Thanks for this video! I recently bought a used VX-6R off ebay for many of the same reasons you did. However, after reading some other comments on here about this radio’s receiver becoming less sensitive or even “deaf” over time, I’m a little concerned. I saw you had plans to try this same experiment again with a brand new Vx-6R. I was wondering how the new radio performed? Was it better or the same? I’m not able to hear much on mine when I scan through all the bands and am wondering if it’s environmental factors or if my radio just no longer performs as well as a new one.
Hello. A "pre-tuned" 2 Meter Antenna will be the absolute most efficient at ( 99% ) to match your transmitters power output also at ( 99% ) No matter if you own a Single, Dual , or Quad Band Transmitter. It's vital that you acquire a "pre-tuned" antenna soley for the 2 Meter section of your single or multi-band transmitter. Your transmitter has over 200 channels just on 2 Meters alone!
Any style of a "pre-tuned" 2 Meter antenna works naturallly to reject unwanted radio signals that are above or below the ( 2 Meters bandwidth you selected ) which signifigantly quiets the noise level and improves both your 2 Meter radio's transmit & receive qualities. Antennas like directional Yagi's actually reduce by about 75% good quality signals and coverage areas you would normally hear or recieve through a omni-directional vertical antenna. Yagi's advanages are therfore only usefull for two specific things. Improving your "perceived signal strength at the recieveing stations S Meter." And for blocking close by stations you that you yourself may not want to hear while communicating. 2Meter and 70cm Yagi's both use just a simple TV Antenna Rotator that can manage about 3 square feet of wind load. Note: always check the Antenna's wind load you have already purchased before you acquire the right Antenna Rotator. Never use an Antenna Rotator that is not "rated for the task".
Plus 99% of all your transmitter's power will actuallly radiate from your station's antenna across all 200 channels on 2 Meters. And that is the goal is 1.1 SWR across all 200 channels soley on 2 Meters. Wth a "pre-tuned" 2 Meter Antenna and a VHF 2 Meter Antenna Tuner designed solely for 2 Meters it's 100% possible for you to achieve. Now even without an Antenna Tuner in one area of those 200 channels on 2 Meters your SWR would be very low, while some what high in others areas. Varying 1.1 to 1.4 SWR. Meaning you could safely operate your transmitter and antenna without an Antenna Tuner. But, That's precisely what the Antenna Tuner is designed to do is to flatten out all 200 channels in the 2 Meters band to a perfect 1.1 SWR. That way your transmitter is 99% efficient, as well as your antenna is also 99% efficient, across all 200 channels of 2 Meters. The Antenna Tuner manually or automatically depending on type used for your rig and corrects ( mismatch or RF Feedback, and improves the Audio Sound Quality of your Transmitter ) caused by the 2 Meter transmitter channel selected, and the 2 Meter antenna itself. Providing you perfect 1.1 SWR for the entire 2 Meter band of all 200 channels. Mismatch of your Transmitter and Antennna is what causes poor sounding audio quality and power losses due to the RF Feedback caused by RF being reflected back to your transmitter through the transmission line. An Antenna Tuner fixes those "Mismatch" issues between your Transmitter and Antenna with ease.
As for antennas such as beams or Yagis high DBI only improves your perceived signal strength at the "recieving station" indicated by the ( S Meter ) at the "receiving station" only, and does nothing to improve poor efficiency or loss of power due to improper Antenna installs which includes Recommended Height Above Ground, Proper Ground, Counterpoise if used, or Feed Line Losses that connects the Transmitter with the Antenna. However you did mention one other factor with these style antennas that they are "directional" rather than ( omni-directional ) helping tremendously to reject roughly 75% of ground noise or signals you would normally hear from any onmi-directional antenna.
Three types of antenna tuners that I, and most Hams "should use" for their transmitter antenna setup are HF 160 - 10 Meters, VHF 10 -1 Meters, UHF 1 Meter to 10 cm. When selecting your transmiter, antenna tuner, and antenna. You need to gather three things. The transmitter's 2 Meter frequency range. And the Antenna Tuner's 2 Meter frequency range. And the Antenna 2 Meter frequency range. And that everything works together properly as they should.
I appreciate you taking the time to share all your experience. Lot of gems here. Thank you and 73!
@@TheTechPrepper Your more than welcome, and I should have mentioed, take a qty of 2. Hallf wave wire center fed dipole antennas run one North to South and the other East to West for your selected frequency range with a antenna selector switch installed will give you also a directional antenn system that work great for skip, and rejecting close by stations, clearing up the air waves and nearly always are legal limit antenns rated at 1500 watts for about $50.00 a piece. They can be installed in a variety of ways but, best is horizontal 1 wavelength above the ground. But, fear not if you cannot get it that high. Because it only becomes omni-directional when installed lower than a wavelegth above ground! Meaning it still works for local contacts! You just lose the skip feature when installed lower than 1 wavelength. Example: 1/2 wave center fed dipole for 11 Meters i.e.Citizens Band radio is 9 ft each side from the connection point. A wavelength therefore is 18 ft. Therefore 18 ft above ground is the recommended installation height for "skip talking". Also dipoles can be instaled anywhere inside apartments, attics, for field day operations for mobile base stations, and even trees stealth operation etc..... Not everyone can own a $60,000 tower with a 3500 sq ft beam LOL.......... But you would be surprised what a single dipole and antenna tuner properly grounded to your rig are capable of. Have fun, Sincerely, J.G.Bates.
I love these kinds of real world tests. They always seem to yield unexpected results. For example, given that the VX-6R uses a dual-conversion superheterodyne receiver, I would have expected it to do far better than it did here. That kind of information can be invaluable, albeit probably a little disappointing.
These tests are great. There has been one heck of a response from yourself and the other viewers, so I am going to make a follow-up video and test a brand new VX-6R that I just picked up to ensure that there isn't an issue with my original VX-6. I'll also benchmark all the other HT's and mobile's that I own on RX. Like you, I did not expect this result. Cheers!
That is odd... might be worth checking out the VX6r. Mine had a crystal filter issue and went deaf on FM narrow. FM wide still works because the crystal isn't used there. I realize something was up when my uv5r could hear better than the Yaesu. Checked it with a service monitor and it tool 100uv to get full quiet... normally full quiet would have been well under 1uv. Yaesu charged $50 to swap the filter and install a new keypad as I had worn the numbers off carrying it.
I just picked up a second VX-6 and plan to make another video that will test both (old and new) as well as all my other HT's and base stations. Thanks for insight with your experience. Take care.
It was very interesting to see the receive difference between radios. I am very curious to know if your base station was plugged in or on batteries. I want to know if grounding played any part in the reception difference. Even running the HT plugged in may have made a huge difference with grounding involved.
I actually do not own a power supply. The 2980 was connected to a 12v, 12Ah LiFePO4 battery. This station is not grounded.
That is very interesting. Thank you for that.
I run my base station on 20 ah AGM battery. I have a charger that I plug in during the night. I have to unplug the charger when operating because it adds a lot of noise.
Makes me ? My multi band radios . Can't believe the receive difference. Would love to see some other radios with test. I would think some difference in recieve quality but couldn't even understand audio on ht.
Is there any advantages going with the FT-200 or 300 over the 6000 other than the 200 and 300 show 2 freqs at a time?
Thanks for the content. I wonder how much better system fusion would work using the same type of antennas? I know most people are most likely still using normal FM.
I've heard that digital will be a lot clearer compared to analog. I only have one radio that supports Fusion, but have not had a chance to use it since Fusion repeaters are pretty rare this way.
jus saying, I make contact with a repeater 30+ miles full quieting with my ft60r. it helps that the repeater antenna height is about 300 ft. :))
Sometimes connecting such a large antenna to an HT can also overload the front end, causing it to desense - meaning you won't hear anything. As you observed, your mobile unit has the filtering to be able to handle it. This often happens with Baofengs because of their dubious build quality.
Thank you for sharing this additional insight. It makes sense.
Good vid. I'm glad I found it. I just set up a 2meter only Yaesu FTM3100R got it new for about 130 with a coupon. Also trying to set up local comms with VHF and GMRS for the non-ham family members. Are both stations at a similar altitude?
Good luck with your setup. I have about 800-1000 advantage over the other station. The radio horizon line-of-sight calculation was questionable even with that height advantage. Regardless of the math, we established the planed contact.
that 2980 really is a bad boy would you suggest narrow band or wide band on both hand held and the 2980
Big fan from Tucson. Unfortunately I do not have any equipment capable of hitting the metrolink repeaters. I have been able to hit the EARRS repeater down here with my HT.
I do not have the money to buy multiple rigs so my question is, if you could only have one radio. What would it be? Everything I like has its pros and cons except the 857 thats now discontinued! I believe I have heard you say you would have the 818 if you could only have one? Is that still the case?
Hope to connect one day when my equipment allows me! Thanks!
Good video. Thanks for the test options. Curious, who makes the bracket your 2980 in in. Didn’t see it in your links. Thanks & 73
Thanks. It's the ARMOLOQ TPA pack frame. I have these same frames on all my radios. I covered them in my recent manpack series. Cheers.
Great test. Can you talk about the terrain between the two stations? Any elevation between you or is it mostly flat terrain?
What DB gain is Yaggi cos that multiply the watts by a factor ie 3db gain = 2xwatts tx so 80 watts is actually 160 watts?
What are you using for adapter(s) when attaching the yagi to the HT? It looked like it had excellent strain relief. I don't usually go from SMA to BNC, but SMA to SO-239. I'm very concerned with the frailty of the SMA on HTs. I cut a small piece of low pressure poly water hose as strain relief. 7/16" OD - 5/16" ID works for most SMA adapters.
I personally switched to BNC for everything. I run the Diamond Antenna BNCJ-SMAP on every HT.
Results make sense. Your improved reception may well be due to your directional antenna verses his omni, also, I think your mobile radio has a tuned preselector, and his may not. Same for my Icom IC-V8000. I know you are more "portable" oriented, but what is the length and coax type for loss estimates?
My feed line is not ideal. I run 50' of RG-8x, so the looses are quite high especially on UHF. But, I rarely operate from the house. In general, this antenna is primary used for local repeater use and doing packet work a few times per week for Winlink Wednesday and APRS Thursday.. At some point I need to invest in a good roof-mounted vertical, some LMR-400 and proper station grounding. My shack is the National Forest, so it's been very low on the list of todo's. Cheers.
Thanks so much for this great experiment and report! I have been experimenting with contacting my QTH while out in the woods using my FT-60 HT and my Arrow-II Yagi antenna. Just for clarification, Mike was not using a directional but a vertical dipole? My reason for asking is that this is the same configuration we currently have at home.
You a very welcome. Glad to see others like yourself experimenting out in the woods. The FT-60R is one my favorite HT's, but I had to switch to the VX-6R as I destroyed one of my FT-60's over the course of two years with sweat and salt. Mike was running a vertical on his roof. Keep up the good work.
It seems the 2980 is a rig placed into the body of a Standard commercial rig. Why? No fan. And the protection of the coax port.
In fact I use a M-F ABR pigtail on it so I can change coax and antennae quickly. I have mine in a Tac-Com. Had it before the new rail product came out. It has ports that go the same job as the M-F pigtail.
I would love to see you try bandpass filters with the HT and see if that helps. BTW, your videos and a little push from WB6MKJ, I ordered a VX6 with cap mod. I'm enjoying it. I'm looking at a few 6m HT antennas and was wondering if you run one on yours? 73 KO4CXD
After running this experiment, it is clear that a band filter on 2m could be a real game changer. I need to do some homework and see what's available in terms of small footprint filters. I take that Yagi with quite a bit portable, so it would be handy to potentially improve the RX quality.
Glad to hear that you picked up a VX-6 and went through the expense/effort of applying the MARS/CAP mode. I picked up the Diamond SRH999 which is a quad band antenna that covers 6m. I have not hand an opportunity to test it. I am looking for some local hams to jump with 6m testing.
Cheers
@@TheTechPrepper I just found the Sotabeam BPFT-100 filter that might just might work. Looking into it now.
I'm also a yaesu guy... I'd have liked to hear his recorded receive from you. A receive of the vx-6r or an FT-65 or FT 60 would probably reveal muffled audio due to the waterproof membrane. I've never tried recording to hear for myself! Yaesu mobile audio has never had a complaint from my friends.
I've heard the same thing regarding the waterproof membrane impacting audio quality. I have a new VX-6R, so I need to run this experiment again.
I love my VX-6R for the same reasons you do, and it is my goto HT, especially hiking. That said, receive sound quality is much better on my $30 Baofeng. 😮 Yup, said it, ‘cause its true. Still, it mainly lives in my drawer.
The VX-6R has a ton of capabilities that I find useful when looking at it through the "prepper" lens. More than anything, it's the one radio that handles the punishment that I put it through out here in the Sonoran Desert. This new data point regarding the receive quality when connecting it to a Yagi is disappointing, but will not change my view on this radio as it has more pros than cons. It will still be my EDC radio. I'll revisit this topic and specifically benchmark a few radios (including the Baofeng UV-5R) on receive. Cheers!
I hear you. Here in the East, particularly in Appalachia, our issue is water. It rains, a lot. Its humid. It’s hot. And hiking is rough on equipment anywhere. Besides, I also like the receive bands on the VX-6r. It might crackle a bit, but I trust it.
@@thomasr.jackson2940 Ditto. I love having AM receive while I'm out in the woods. That radio is perfect for your neck of the woods.
My advice for simplex is just to turn squelch completely off. There are plenty of signals that you can hear and make out that are below the ambient noise floor. If you’re close enough that the signal is strong you can turn the squelch back on.
Houston Galveston area is trying to get 2m simplex.
Excellent real world test as usual, Thank you! Would you have any interest in trying the same test on 2m SSB? Your FT-818 and FT-857 will both fit in well and if your mentor has a similar rig, I certainly would be interested in the results. Based on my experience in decades past, SSB signals go farther than FM. I realize in this day and time, not as many have SSB capable 2m radios, but they are still out there and have the added benefit of low density of eavesdroppers.
Actually, there is no a problem on my FT-818ND or FT-857D on 2m USB. I test this use case with the same antenna system twice a week for a local SSB net. No issues on receive. The only difference is that I rotate the Yagi so that it is horizontally polarized. The more interesting test would be to run the same test with the 818 and 857 on 2m FM like we did here. I will revisit this exercise in a future video and try all my radios and benchmark the perceived RX performance.
Would've also been worth trying a lower simplex frequency as well. One thing I often have noticed is the higher end simplex frequencies are noticeably worse on receive than lower ones on most antennas.
I am wondering if a ht like ft3d or ft5d would fare any better with the yagi or is the “inferior” reception, a factor of all hts
I have a friend in our group that has an FT5D, so it would be interesting to repeat the test. My Elmer indicated that the mobile rigs will typically fare better given that they have more room for more sophisticated components, such as filters, to improve the receive capabilities. It may be a general problem of HT's across the board. I would imagine that a 2m only HT with less RX capabilities may do better? I may try this test with my FT-60 as it is significantly less wide banded in terms of the receiver. Still learning with you guys. Take care.
I'd be interested to see how the 857D plays in this scenario on 2m.
A lot of people are asking for this. I will make a follow-up video and I will try the FT-60R, UV-5R, FT-818ND, FT-857D and FT-8900. Should be interesting.
Hi, I’ve watched a lot of your videos. Have you tried using or setting up an NVIS system on a vehicle while traveling?
Not yet, but it's in the works. Next year.
@@TheTechPrepper I’m down in Douglas AZ, I’m looking to set something up for NVIS next year. I would love to be able to reach out to you for some testing.
Where can I find that metal bracket/mount that is holding the car mount radio? very cool
It's by a company called ARMOLOQ. These TPA pack frames are amazing. American made and high quality.
@@TheTechPrepper Thank you brother.
I spy... How do you like the Raspberry Pi Argon one case? I've got one as a secondary daily driver computer (typing on it right now actually) and my only complaint really is the fan. It's so small and high speed even at the lowest setting I find it annoying trying to listen to something more interesting, like someone talking on the radio. I finally shut the whole thing off from terminal and thermal taped a nice CPU heatsink on the lid for passive cooling!😅 I'm about to get their new NVME add-on board because the Pi runs SO much snappier and more reliably off an M.2 vs a Micro SD!
I just tested 2 different duck antennas on two different baofeng radios against a FT991 connected to a 10 element 2 meter beam, and found no difference in received strength from a transmitter 28 miles away! I suggest your your he ask HT has a serious problem!
surprised by the difference between an handheld and the mobile unit sensitivity! I wonder if u have any recommendation list of highest sensitivity radios? I currently have an tyt md-uv390 handheld, and I noticed it have a way higher sensitivity than both the uv-5k and a chinese clone hackrf. btw, is the other side also used a directional antenna in this contact?