I would still say Bird/Magic because the history had been sowed long before they were professionals, and it felt more personal and dragged into their respective organisations as welll. It was just as much Lakers vs Celtics as Magic vs Bird where there wasn't any tension between the two organizations for over a decade. I also believe for Ali and Frazier, it was a good amount of business and publicity stunting to build the fight. There was no joking when it came to Bird and Magic.
Ali and Frazier were known worldwide. Larry and Magic was an American thing plus they had teams. Ali and Frazier had no one to rely on but themselves if they lost against each other which by the way they are trying to hurt each other BAD. Larry and Magic were only scoring baskets against each other. Ali and Frazier were the bigger rivalry. It was part of American culture and boxing was one of the biggest sports at the time.
Muhammad Ali was superstar as "Cassius Clay". He was Olympic Gold Medalist at 19, and World Heavyweight Champion at 22 as "Cassius Clay". He's the greatest athlete ever.
Boxing was at it's pique in the late 60s through the entire 70s. Some people call it the golden age, especially if you're looking at the HW division. As for the lack of attention for Joe, most people were focused on Ali's exile. On top of that, many HoF boxers started with good records fighting easy opponents and only get noticed when they start fighting contenders.
I haven't done the research, but it's important to remember that the average American has always felt like the rich, powerful, and celebrities escape consequences that the average American couldn't. That one dude said it best on how they felt, "He isn't any better than the rest of us". He didn't say anything racist or provactive and simply stated what most others white and black young men felt. Why does he get to say no? That was still when it was unclear what his punishments would be.
This was against the backdrop of the 60s. There was a lot of upheaval going on. LBJ had gotten the Equal Rights and the Voting Rights Amendments passed and there was backlash against them. I think Muhammad Ali's stand against the Vietnam War was one based on principle. I could contrast this was some politicians who avoided the war and then used the military for their own political purposes when they were in office. I do have to wonder if instead of being a Muslim he had been a Quaker, if that would have made a difference. I also can't discount racism here.
@@sdgakatbk I'm certain that many Americans were incredibly racist, but that doesn't have much to do with backlash towards serving since race wasn't a factor in the draft process. Many blue collar African Americans who were called to serve were just as annoyed by Ali as anyone else. I'm also not stating my personal belief in this as I wasn't even close to being alive during this time period. I can only go off public information and speculation.
Real quick. This fight from March 8, 1971 basically told the story have 2 undefeated champions and how different their stories are. Boxing was HUGE in the 60s & 70s. Then basketball came, then football got big, etc..... Joe was undefeated in the 60s knocking people out yes! BUT! The real reason Ali got the better attention was bc of his skills in the ring and his words outside the ring. He drew the crowds, whether they liked him or not. He was the ticket seller. Joe is one of the toughest men I've ever seen fight in my life, but I don't think he could've sold a better fight then with Muhammad ali. Did Joe really win the right way vs Ali? YES! Ali figured since its 3 years later, he's stronger, bigger, more powerful and the audience suddenly liked him. If you ever watch that ''Full'' fight, Ali shaking his head during clinches, talking to the crowd, laughing in his corner, etc....They BOTH needed each other in the end.
Since Ali never lost his belt in the ring, the world champ title was vacant. Which led to the 8-man tournament. The participants consisted of handpicked contenders; one of them was Frazier. Frazier didn't participate, so he could fight Buster Mathis. Frazier and Mathis fought for a title that was only recognized by the new york state athletics commission. Ellis comes out on top and wins the WBA world title and, a few fights later, loses it to Joe Frazier.
From what I've seen as a European guy, US-citizens had and, although to a lesser degree, still have a huge hard-on for military service, so anyone not wanting to serve, for whatever reason, is a weirdo in their eyes.
Thats the thing tho, He WASNT better than the rest of us, He preached equal rights but displayed none . If the media was how it is today, he would have been instantly found out for what he was . A black Racist who was actually afraid to fight for what he preached (and lost when he did). He was hated because he used excuses why not to do things . It was never I am afraid, or I dont want to, Or I have made a decision. I was always My religion tells me, Or The nation of Islam says> Always an excuse not to actually be brave. Malcolm X say what the nation of Islam was going to do with Ali, Why do you think they had him killed?
Frazier got such a bad rap....the time period played into it....I'm not black and I get Ali was hyping the fight but what he said about Frazier I thought crossed a line ....He said some hateful things ....I don't think Ali meant it but Frazier & his kids had to deal with so.e.of the claims race wise as Frazier not acting the right way as a black man I thought crossed a line......It doesn't take everyday people to hear that and say & do dumb ignorant things..... he got a bad rap.... Great question.
No Spoilers! Lol but better rivalry Frazier/Ali or Bird/Magic??
I would still say Bird/Magic because the history had been sowed long before they were professionals, and it felt more personal and dragged into their respective organisations as welll. It was just as much Lakers vs Celtics as Magic vs Bird where there wasn't any tension between the two organizations for over a decade. I also believe for Ali and Frazier, it was a good amount of business and publicity stunting to build the fight. There was no joking when it came to Bird and Magic.
Ali and Frazier were known worldwide. Larry and Magic was an American thing plus they had teams. Ali and Frazier had no one to rely on but themselves if they lost against each other which by the way they are trying to hurt each other BAD. Larry and Magic were only scoring baskets against each other. Ali and Frazier were the bigger rivalry. It was part of American culture and boxing was one of the biggest sports at the time.
@@msw8966 💯
The picture of the girl running naked was famous. She's Vietnamese and just had been hit in a US napalm attack.
fax
Wow
Muhammad Ali was superstar as "Cassius Clay". He was Olympic Gold Medalist at 19, and World Heavyweight Champion at 22 as "Cassius Clay".
He's the greatest athlete ever.
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When you are drafted you have no decision. You go to fight or you go to jail. That's how a draft works.
That’s tough lol
Boxing was at it's pique in the late 60s through the entire 70s. Some people call it the golden age, especially if you're looking at the HW division. As for the lack of attention for Joe, most people were focused on Ali's exile. On top of that, many HoF boxers started with good records fighting easy opponents and only get noticed when they start fighting contenders.
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My man…I know it’s too late but you shoulda watched a full Ali doc first.
So much to know about this incredible man.
The good and the bad
I’ll do it after I finish this
Madison Square Garden is nicknamed "The Mecca of Boxing."
They call everything in NY the Mecca of something lol
I haven't done the research, but it's important to remember that the average American has always felt like the rich, powerful, and celebrities escape consequences that the average American couldn't. That one dude said it best on how they felt, "He isn't any better than the rest of us". He didn't say anything racist or provactive and simply stated what most others white and black young men felt. Why does he get to say no? That was still when it was unclear what his punishments would be.
This was against the backdrop of the 60s. There was a lot of upheaval going on. LBJ had gotten the Equal Rights and the Voting Rights Amendments passed and there was backlash against them. I think Muhammad Ali's stand against the Vietnam War was one based on principle. I could contrast this was some politicians who avoided the war and then used the military for their own political purposes when they were in office. I do have to wonder if instead of being a Muslim he had been a Quaker, if that would have made a difference. I also can't discount racism here.
@@sdgakatbk I'm certain that many Americans were incredibly racist, but that doesn't have much to do with backlash towards serving since race wasn't a factor in the draft process. Many blue collar African Americans who were called to serve were just as annoyed by Ali as anyone else. I'm also not stating my personal belief in this as I wasn't even close to being alive during this time period. I can only go off public information and speculation.
@@RyandracusChapman I wasn't referring to the draft but more about reaction to Ali. I tend to agree with you about the draft itself.
Real quick. This fight from March 8, 1971 basically told the story have 2 undefeated champions and how different their stories are. Boxing was HUGE in the 60s & 70s. Then basketball came, then football got big, etc..... Joe was undefeated in the 60s knocking people out yes! BUT! The real reason Ali got the better attention was bc of his skills in the ring and his words outside the ring. He drew the crowds, whether they liked him or not. He was the ticket seller. Joe is one of the toughest men I've ever seen fight in my life, but I don't think he could've sold a better fight then with Muhammad ali. Did Joe really win the right way vs Ali? YES! Ali figured since its 3 years later, he's stronger, bigger, more powerful and the audience suddenly liked him. If you ever watch that ''Full'' fight, Ali shaking his head during clinches, talking to the crowd, laughing in his corner, etc....They BOTH needed each other in the end.
Since Ali never lost his belt in the ring, the world champ title was vacant. Which led to the 8-man tournament. The participants consisted of handpicked contenders; one of them was Frazier. Frazier didn't participate, so he could fight Buster Mathis. Frazier and Mathis fought for a title that was only recognized by the new york state athletics commission. Ellis comes out on top and wins the WBA world title and, a few fights later, loses it to Joe Frazier.
💯💯💯
From what I've seen as a European guy, US-citizens had and, although to a lesser degree, still have a huge hard-on for military service, so anyone not wanting to serve, for whatever reason, is a weirdo in their eyes.
Thats the thing tho, He WASNT better than the rest of us, He preached equal rights but displayed none . If the media was how it is today, he would have been instantly found out for what he was . A black Racist who was actually afraid to fight for what he preached (and lost when he did). He was hated because he used excuses why not to do things . It was never I am afraid, or I dont want to, Or I have made a decision. I was always My religion tells me, Or The nation of Islam says> Always an excuse not to actually be brave. Malcolm X say what the nation of Islam was going to do with Ali, Why do you think they had him killed?
Frazier got such a bad rap....the time period played into it....I'm not black and I get Ali was hyping the fight but what he said about Frazier I thought crossed a line ....He said some hateful things ....I don't think Ali meant it but Frazier & his kids had to deal with so.e.of the claims race wise as Frazier not acting the right way as a black man I thought crossed a line......It doesn't take everyday people to hear that and say & do dumb ignorant things..... he got a bad rap.... Great question.