A Mentally Ill Person Analyzes Joker
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Ever since I did my videos analyzing Thanos and John Doe, people have been asking me to do a video on Joker. I was trying to think of a way to do a video on Joker with an original perspective. After all, this movie has been talked about by everybody on the Internet. So I figured... why not talk about the movie's depiction of mental illness from a mentally ill perspective?
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_“The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t.”_ - Arthur Fleck
I find it funny how these modern day politicians yell stupid sh!t like "white male rage" when it's clear they don't understand the afflicted.
That hit me the most. It made me want to say "I'm sorry." to my fiance.
@Ramp Shark it has been "earn your survival" since we were apes. Quit your pathetic attempt to change human (and) nature from the way is has been for the last eons.
The Law of Nature holds true in "Trump America" and all over the world. Nature does not accomodate for the weak. The weak becomes food for the stronger to keep on pushing the species ahead.
Quit whinning and work on become strong.
@The Grim reaper I understand your struggle, but I think you've misinterpreted what toxic masculinity is. They're not calling masculinity itself toxic. They're calling out bad masculinity. The one that forces you into a societal expectation of men (by other men, mind you, just look at one of the responses in this reply chain) to suppress their emotions and deal with their mental problems in a bad way. I just hope that you can realize this so that others can too.
@@d-552 Can't be pretentious if it's as true as sky blue.
A key factor about Joker that I found very clever is that Arthur only starts becoming violent after his safety nets start getting taken away one by one; his job, his social worker, his dream career, his idealistic "girlfriend", his relationship with his mother, and finally his admiration of Murray Franklin. All of those things helped keep Arthur in check and reinforced his belief that he should be a good person, but as each of them crumble he becomes increasingly hostile until he finally snapped.
As depressing as it may seem at first glance, it's ironically quite uplifting to think that this sort of violence only happens when all the other alternatives are taken away, because it means we have ways to maybe not cure, but at least mostly alleviate, the horrible situations people like Arthur find themselves in, and we can appropriately plan for it.
Humans are fucking hypocrites i
Count myself on that list how we never actually talk about doing things and helping out and we never actually do shit about it and then we regret it when its to late we always have an opportunity to fix or do something right but we go with the idea that everyone is doing it already so I doubt that if i do it different it wont matter but it does the little that you do affects the rest of us
@@yiosomething I've noticed that hypocrisy is a flaw with humanity in general. I'm a hypocrite, you're a hypocrite, Max is a hypocrite, everybody's a hypocrite. The only people who might be innocent of it are children who die at very young ages. It's pretty fucking depressing to know that the only way to avoid becoming a hypocrite is to die very young.
The difference between innocent hypocrisy, if one can call it innocent, and malicious hypocrisy is intent. Sometimes, genuinely well meaning people will do hypocritical things by mistake. Some of them realise after doing so and some of them don't but if they don't mean to do it, they are as pure as any hypocrite can be. However, power hungry, selfish people will do it on purpose because they can gain something from it and those are the ones who should be called out.
Humans by nature want to feel that they're in the right, even when their actions are clearly wrong so they give themselves a self made narrative where they did nothing wrong and they're misunderstood heroes.
In the movie Thomas Wayne claims he'll fix Gotham by becoming the new Major while also calling everyone uncult clowns and expecting praise from the very people he insulted, he then goes around asking "why do all these people hate me if I'm their savior?". Arthur on the other hand is right that society keeps treating him like discarded trash and no one gives a shit if he were to die, but that doesn't justify him becoming a serial killer.
Society thinks we're insane, but it's really society that's insane. Now yuo see.
A wise man once said that art is meant to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.
Absolutely profound
That "you get what you deserve" at the end of it though.
Literal chills.
This is definitely my favorite movie of 2019, the movie's depection of mental illness truly did remind me of myself in so many ways. While my life hasn't been quite as tragic as Arthur's life in the movie, it did remind me a lot of times in my life that felt really similar to those in the movie.
If there is one scene I would ever want to recreate from the movie, it's the stairway scene when he truly becomes Joker, but I've also seen that I'm not alone in that with all the videos and pictures of people doing the same thing. Thank you for analyzing this movie Max, it was very interesting and informative as well.
And also, thank you for being one of the true positive examples of people reaching out to other people with mental disabilities in need of help, you've helped me learn about myself with my autism/asbergers in many ways than I could ever repay you for, I can't thank you enough.
The world around us is actually closer to Gotham than you think.
Your final message around the end made me emotional... amazing work, Max. Glad to see there are people like you to help in any way possible. Even just a conversation like this can help someone greatly, mentally ill or simply going through the darkest of times.
Olá! Por acaso vc sabe de algum grupo de Aspies aqui no nosso país? Que mal pergunte, vc está onde?
@@paulocl2 Oi! Sou do Brasil, assim como vc eu imagino. Cara, infelizmente não conheço nenhum grupo assim daqui (sinto uma certa falta deste tipo de assunto, conteúdo e ajuda aqui no Brasil) mas se seu Inglês for bom, como o próprio Max disse, ele tem um grupo do Discord pra ajudar.
@@paulocl2 Amigo, ao meu ver, recomendo vc checar o canal "Um canal sobre autismo". Recentemente abriram um Discord também, vc pode checar vendo a aba da comunidade no canal. Espero que seja o que procuras ou quase.
@@LaRavachole 1) Obrigado por responder 2) Achei muito penoso assistir os vídeos do canal "Um canal sobre autismo". Achei o rapaz meio lento, com a voz muita chata e nenhuma informação que eu já não tivesse dos canais em inglês. Talvez para gente jovem, não pra mim. Eu tenho idade para ser avô do rapaz. 3) Discord é o app usado por gamers? Serve como sala de bate-papo?
@@LaRavachole O link (th-cam.com/users/pLNlMQjtCYw) não funcionou. É esse mesmo?
Yeah I got to say this movie was absolutely jaw-droppingly amazing I thought it was absolutely phenomenal the way they told this story they kind of gave you how life is like for people that have severe mental problems I think it was very fascinating I think I would have preferred if there was maybe a slight bit more action but overall I got to say it had to been by far one of the best superhero / supervillain movies of all time and I do not say that lightly!
th-cam.com/video/kuVdiwSGF-Y/w-d-xo.html
I found you through your deep analysis videos on philosophy in fiction (like heart of darkness). I think im an neurotypical person (just intoverted) but your videos about mental health are very interesting and explained relateable .Ill dive deeper.
Thank you for sharing your view and being entertaining at the same time.
“The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t.”
And the fact that he writes it as a joke is just perfection, his mind being so far from where it should be, his humor aswell.
People always have humor, even at the darkest of times in their life, but the humor you find there is different, it's twisted, self destructive, and obscure to most, closely tied to the persons state of mind. Hard to understand to others but simple and obvious to the mentally ill person.
You know when you fall or stub your toe. sometimes you just begin to laugh. it's a reflex of the mind. you can't cry, so you laugh instead. it's kinda like that. But to a mentally ill person it happens all the time, every day. so eventually... they actually find it funny. because that's what their brain does to protect them. to make them *not* cry.
so to the quote i quoted, did you find it deep? did you find a statement about society? or did you actually find it funny. Because it *is* a joke, and it's actually a funny joke. and that's whats so amazing about the movie, it's very well researched and they really went the extra mile to try to understand a mentally ill person. and how it could be expressed by a Joker type character, a class clown if you will.
Thanks Max, another great video.
It seems to be a sad and frankly unhelpful fact of life that the act of looking down on another person is a quick and easy way for the ego to elevate itself in order to "feel better" and in doing so to mitigate the need for self examination and change. For NTs, we NATs must be the gift that keeps on giving. Our society and social media encourage this comparison, so that relief comes to many in the selfish and dishonest thought form "I'm better than you". I think that is the modern day version of "There but for the grace of God go I." but with all the inherent compassion stripped out.
As soon as he says "Thankfully, our world is not like the one depicted in Joker" rolls in footage from a game with very REALISTIC graphics. What a legend of subtlety...
Huh?
Keep up the good work. Awesome analysis. Spot on. I wish I could offer more than just moral support.
This is everything I got out of the movie, but couldnt put into words, Thank you. Also a Quote I loved from a Urban Equity Class that struck a cord with this was, "When Society starts to treat a class or race as animals, is it that surprising when they start to act as such?
Where is "stay yellow", this is literally unacceptable im am unsubing.
J.K. i love you max.
Interestingly enough, I was going to say "Stay yellow" as I normally do, but when I presented the script for this video to somebody, they suggested I say "You deserve to be happy" because they felt it fit this video better.
@@maxderrat a wise choice.
The part of Joker that got me more than anything else was the part with Gary. Despite losing all control and brutally murdering Randal and his own mother, he still had compassion for Gary and let him go after sweetly assuring him he wouldn't hurt him.
That's because gary just like him is at the whim of mockery of the normies and non disabled.
Never had much friends in school. Not mentally ill or bullied or anything, just preferred working alone is all. Met a dude who really brought out the fun in people, really made me force me to look at myself and how I interact with people. Never judged, never assumed the worst, just a funny dude with real niche passions and a crazy knack for music. It was only AFTER a few years that he offhandedly said he was on the spectrum. It really explained a lot, he didn't judge others on starting conditions, and it shook me. I'm easily influenced by negativity, but he, someone who should be most vulnerable to it, was almost invincible. I hope he's doing well that guy was a G.
Have you seen Joe Pera standup? He's able to use that "awkwardness" to his benefit very well!
I thought this movie was great. Then, I reflected for months.
-The moment where Arthur puts his hand to his head in the shape of a gun and his crush finds it funny.
-Arthur finds out about his mom and is so angry and held back by her needs. You found that you weren’t special and given life, you didn’t ask to be born, and the gratefulness was unjustified. He kills her and is blissful that he no longer worries about her. He was codependent and living a fake life
-The whole movie was in his head so you learn that any potential endorsement of his behavior is actually as sadistic as it looks, because it’s in the joker’s head. People look at the film, and judge the filmmakers, ignoring the fact that the Joker himself essentially made every aspect of the film.
-The freedom he feels dancing, and zoning into worlds like his stand-up experience.
-Hating Robert DeNiro, even though he’s not an asshole, he’s just a guy who looks away from the poor, but so does everyone else. Does this make them awful? No, but if you take his persona to an extreme and add jealousy, you see him as worthy of sacrificing to inject a meaning that very few viewers will understand. We saw inside the Joker’s head, so the sustain is actually coherent, but also an illusion. This explains why people do bad things that are not grounded in reality, which is the essence of villainy. It makes sense of villains, logical sense.
-The movie is a warning, not a message. It warns us what happens when the mentally ill are mistreated and fail to receive support. It often takes illness to lose it and snap. A lot of shooters had ASD, because atypical people can usually handle the mental overload. So we don’t necessarily sympathize with Joker or any other villain as a response to the film, we see why mental illness is tied to villainy, and we see that it’s only neglected mentally ill people that end up with the propensity to do awful things. Sadism often has mental illness involved, and every villain has a sad backstory. Spider-Man 3 made us feel bad for Sandman, but this film is a character study that shows much more than it says.
You’ll never see a film with such a mixed response, and so many perfect scores. You can’t understand the film until it’s over, and it’s a mindfuck. Watching it twice and giving it time to settle and for the easily triggered to stop stigmatizing an amazing film that is intended to humanize people like myself. If I meltdown, am I the only one to blame? What about my abusive parents? What about the struggles my mental illness gives me? These things drove Joker to the point of insanity, yet here I stand, a brave person who just happens to be raging, and I’m grateful that I can do things to make it easier and have people that care about me.
It’s fucking beautiful and my dumbass graduate school teacher who said it was offensive to the mentally ill has 1.4 on rate my professor. Pissed me off that she tried to tell a group of students that a work of art is disgusting and irresponsible. Colleges man, they tell you to think with your heart, when your brain should come first 99% of the time. Man, this movie is so far from offensive it’s just shocking that the meme of it being obtuse and judgmental is totally crazy and a result of cancel culture. Very easy to put a warning label on a white male led film with white male director. Those qualifications made it an extreme sjw target in the first place. 90% of people hate cancel culture now so this isn’t even political to say. They just hashtag the shit out of outrage and are social media addicts. Irony is way more subtle than all caps influx of rage, hatred, sadness, and strength are thrown at people that are pressured into believing in social causes, even if they are clueless on an issue.
Amazing film, as far from offensive as possible. I’m offended that people are told that this movie’s problem is mental illness portrayal, when that is the total opposite of the case. Do cancel culture people really believe the riddler isn’t manic as shit? Or that Mr. Freeze isn’t suffering from PTSD? Or that Harley Quinn is not sadistic or codependent on an abusive partner? I don’t want to live in a world where those people are considered atypical thank you very much.
People will never understand how relatable this movie is
my smile cracks
my mask is made of clay
thrones blow wind
cracks and pain are made
faceless shadows speak
but no love in the tone
crack, break, blow away
the pain unknown
numb hands, raised
for blinded storms
fury of activity
motionlessness, mourned
Great video as always, keep it up!
Wonderfully put together! Since I also like true crime, I try to understand how can someone commit atrocious acts of violence towards other people and/or animals. Having ADHD, depression, anxiety and trauma, so many horrible images and fantasies cross my mind. And I often wonder, if it was the same for other people before they snapped.
Im gonna join the discord, sounds like fun.
When a someone is happy and normal, stable and happy. He thinks that everyone around him . Are also happy and when he find someone being sad or depressed he hates them for not being like him
As someone with mental illness i loved how joker made it. It shows how people treat us worse than the dirt they walk on, how hard it is to be ill, and what can happen if nothing ever gets done about it.
I appreciate the Silent Hill 2 music at the very end.
This genuinely made me cry...
“Put on a happy face.”
I’m ADHD, OCD, bipolar, and Have PTSD. Yeah this movie was amazing. It shows what society does to these people
This is so beautiful. The explanation is so good thanks for this brilliant video sir ❤🎉
2:30 fucking WHAT?! DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND HOW UNCOMFORTABLE THAT MAKES US?!?
That's the thing about becoming mentall ill ..when they knew that you are having trouble in your mind and your gesture is kind a different. The first thing people I mean most of them will avoid you. That sucks!!
Autism Spectrum Disorder isn't a mental illness; it's a neurological developmental disorder. I have ASD, but I don't count it as one of my mental illnesses, which include AD/HD, GAD, ODD, OCPD, C-PTSD, DID, and MDD. ...Joker hit pretty hard for me...super terrified I'm on a similar path. 😥
As a person without mental illness (i think...), I love how this video puts this film in such a different perspective. I haven't seen all implications and connections before. Brilliant.
Thank you Max.
I'm really surprised that most people don't pick up on Arthur's interactions with children in this movie. There's the kid on the bus, there's the woman and her daughter, there's the children in the hospital, and there's Bruce. I think Arthur relates to them because he's like a child himself who couldn't grow up.
This movie fixed a few things about the joker. Sometimes I wish the other joker's didn't care so much about Batman and care more about other stuff
How did it "fix" something about him? There have been plenty of Jokers who haven't been focused on Batman.
@@andytrevino4077 sorry I don't focus on the plenty. I focus on the most known.
You could have included that according to several studies people with mental illnesses are more likely to be the victim of a crime/taken advantage off instead of being the abuser.
"Public opinion surveys suggest that many people think mental illness and violence go hand in hand." - Harvard Health Publishing
"In fact, research suggests that this public perception does not reflect reality. Most individuals with psychiatric disorders are not violent."
- Harvard Health Publishing
The key factor for crimes committed by people with mental health is substance abuse (This also includes things like going off your meds)
All i can say is dang man ive never heard him so serious and he talks about thoughts that i couldnt fathom most the time
The sheep. The sheep class. The status quo. The people who stop for a red crosswalk light on a street with no cars, and yell at you for not doing so as well.
The ones you try to explain something to multiple times who totally ignore or can't understand, then repeat small bits of the same topic at you as though you've never hear of it.
Your videos are absolute gold, thanks for your time and insight. Juggling mental, physical, AND spiritual health is a challenge; a challenge which your art is an asset to
Be blessed 🙏
I would also call those who call out others have such problems in themselves.
Knowing the problem is empathy,
knowing it too well can be the problem.
Handling the problem well or badly is what makes the difference.
I felt SO bad for Arthur. Like, so bad for him. My empathy towards him was killing me. I do enjoy the visual of people getting what they "fking deserve" in my own life so I'm glad that Arthur got some satisfaction there. I still have a grip on my own sanity for now but I hope I never lose that grip. Enjoyed the video and your interpretation/perspective.
5:20.everytime I tell a Norm McDonald joke but can't deliver it like him, and so I'm grossly misunderstood and thrown out the mini golf course.
Fantastic and simple ( the most diffcult to do) analysis. Congratulations.
This movie was very scary, in the sense that you understand or have an idea as to why things ended up like they did. It was relatable, and I empathized with Arthur in practically every situation he was in. Arthur as a character, to me, encapsulates many things that a neuroatypical individual experiences, be it good things or bad, in a society that either does not understand or does not care.
I was having doubts about whether to watch Joker due to the mainstream media coverage. Thank you, now I am sure I will enjoy the movie.
Thank you for making this video buddy, excellent content that alot of us need to hear :) Subscribed 👍
A psychologist once told ME, "We all wear masks." Yep. True words.
the shadow n stuff
I had generalized anxiety disorder. It's not scary and is curable if you put the work in.
Interesting video. Can you explain 'biologically predisposed to be socially awkward"? I must admin, I have thought this was a skill.
Once he realizes he exists because of something he feels more emotion and develops into something, it doesn’t matter what he is, and he gains slight confidence, but this is also a mask, so it is taken off; it is his literal mask and shifted more confident personality but also says to smile, while he smiles through the pain and he slightly feels less sad with the mask on, but the words are a reminder that sometimes we smile to hide our frowns or act differently to hide however else we may feel. He just wants to make people happy for his whole life but has been rejected and doesn’t know love or understanding.
That was Silent Hill 2 music towards the end?
Look like a really great one
Thank you, Max.
As someone on the Autistic Spectrum and with anxiety issues, I couldn't agree with this video more, plus I can relate fully.
Great video Max. I’m sorry you resonated with some of the negative aspects of Aurthur’s life.
When you mentioned ‘not taking it anymore’ it made me think of a quote from the movie Network. Have you ever seen it or thought about covering it? Would love to see your take on it.
Batman lost his mother and father joker never had one worth loving.
I enjoyed your video, I appreciate your personal expressions and more so educated opinion of self experiences.
I wanted to provide you some feedback from a professional standpoint within the realm of psychology / sociology. I felt the film was a good projection of psychosis, and sociologically related mental health issues. Such as sociopathy, psychopathy, Shizo disorders, etc. I respect your admissions, and sharing of your own personal mental health situation. Something I have learned from several decades of studying, researching, becoming educated on a constant basis... blah blah blah... There is always at least ONE person that will "defy" what we believe, what we know, what we can prove, etc... We believe we have all the answers for mental health, but in reality we do not, and as such unlimited possibilities are possible, and if nothing else, at least once we will come across a situation that although non reflective of the majority, could be reflective of a small minority.
I hope this comment disappears into the darkness of the universe helping one person consider looking at mental health with a much broader mindset.
I feel called out at first I’m not in this video midway through the video I was like same .
I think you miss the point of people reaching out and showing their support for mental health by letting people know they have someone to talk to. It's to show that you're not alone and you have a friend to talk to. Your friends aren't mental health workers, just like we were abused and felt burdened then imagine what you can do to someone passing along that understanding to a friend? They're there for you to talk to and help you find real support. And I agree, mental health is under funded but so is many other medical areas and also the fact that treatment of the mind is new if you think about it. It's only been 100ish years since we've been studying it and doing medical practice. Thank you those that show your support online and help advocate, it's one of the ways to bring awareness and remove stigma.
Which ultimately lead me to the question: What is the right action in life, under all circumstances? I can't reconnect to my past view of the world. ^ ~
Even taking aside those people not really caring for the mentally ill, them claiming Arthur was violent solely or mainly because he was mentally ill missed the point of the movie. He was ill on top of a huge number of things that happened to him throughout the film that could also lead a “more normal” person to commit an act of violence if provoked
This guy gets it.
Jokers character is far above then any analysis...
You should check critical drinker's analysis on this movie. His style is unique but his analysis is on point.
Can we get Derek to 100k?
Its not about mental illness equals bad you can take thr movie in 2 ways
A soceity that doesn't care or treat people with mental illness as how they should at some point will make anyone snap.
Or number 2 it's a story of a narcissistic phycho
Oh I understand bipolar with schizophrenia do not understand.
I Love this film so much...
so for #2 its actually post traumatic stress disorder and not generalized anxiety disorder. not an problem however
Loved this movie but didn't think of it like that
All your disorders is what I have too.... and attachment disorder and I can say, this movie did depict the real world very well, maybe enphasized on the darkness, but it should, cos it's a Joker movie and how else could they create this socially ignored clown? the shut down of medical centers as the therapist said isnt realistic BUT if it happens, like in the movie, especially with corona virus, I feel so angry..... it makes me feel hurt as we all need support right now, especially if we struggle with anxiety and can't be left alone too long. And no, people like us are NOT crazy, we are pushed in corners from all sides on the daily.
I see many people in the comments sharing their own similar experiences about interacting with apathetic neurotypical people who do not understand about the hardships brought about by their conditions so I will introduce an unpopular opinion: these neurodivergent people are as apathetic as their neurotypical counterpart. We are not the good people. We just happen to come together due to an convenient situation that makes the 'Us vs Them' mentality probable. We can be such horrible people too.
Well, I Identify 100% with Arthur.
I had a Narcissist husband in stead of Mother.
He played the consiquinces of being in a malignant narcs hands for tooooo long 100%!!!!
I mean I would put on a mask and wear it around but not kill people. I feel like an talk better and feel more social with one on because of anxiety. And I agree with you people shy away from people with mental illness because we make them feel uncomfortable I dont know how many time in my life I had an idea or wanted to do something and be successful only to be rejected because of mental illness
Wow simpsons made me mentally ill too. Talk about damage from early childhood education
I have autism ADHD epilepsy and extra Y chromosome.
Maybe this is cause I'm on mobile but there's no link in the description box
The people that keep telling that the Joker is "problematic", simply did not understand it. First of all:
*Arthur did **_not_** become a murderer because he was mentally ill.*
He became a murderer after being cornered by the terrible situations all around him. His condition being the lesser of those situations. He lost his social security. He struggled to find a job. His mother abused and neglected him... you get the idea.
I thought that was obvious.
But *HOLY FUCK...* Some blue checkmarks on Twitter called the Joker's success "a gamergate victory"... ????? That just shows how absolutely disconnected are some people...
As Arthur said: _"Do you know what is like out there, Murray? Do you actually leave the studio??"_
People are too self-centered to care about anything other than fulfilling their own selfish views with whatever asspull narrative can "prove them right", which is all levels of ironic and fitting for a movie about how people don't care about those who are "different".
Honestly it showed how little they knew about the film and what it was showing, mental illness as a whole, and even gamergate itself. But that is typical for those people.
Well when you look into the past, the 3rd Reich has forced sterilizations and killed off people with physical & mental health issues regardless of genetics or injury. This attitude permeates with people, ergo they see us as a threat rather than trying to understand and approach the situation in a helpful manner.
You are right, that's the thing. The normal average person that speaks doesn't know the other person. And it makes me sick at times how disconnected we are. The only people that are connected are the artists community. And they express alot how they feel. True and genuine. I love the community. But sadly the rest of everyone interpretes people wrong. When they do watch something that is close too home. They divert it into something else in their language tongue, they know what it is. But they wint say it.
Damn right there.
Everytime I heard people say Joker is problematic and that mentally ill people deserve better, I couldn't help but feel condescended and pandered to. Especially given the media's insistence that this movie would lead to some act of violence that never came. God it's like they were begging for it to happen
Don't listen to the media. They literally don't believe their own B.S.
The media is all about fake outrage to get people to give them angry clicks... They don't care, and they're dying anyways.
The best one can do is ignore them. They feed on attention, anyways.
*Steel Beam* it is an attention vampire. It sustains itself from human time and optical labor. Here is something a wizard who is enlightened told me: a “black mirror” is what is used to summon demons...
Turn off your phone and look at it.
They WANTED there to be a shooting inspired by this so they'd have their precious pretext to have it banned and stigmatized.
Legacy media are nothing but traitors and hatemongers now.
The problem is thanks to people wanting to be cool and edgy and "imitating" mental illness by being an edgy sick fuck that supposedly wants to kill people
_"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."_ *~ Jiddu Krishnamurti*
I've seen this quote before and I gotta say I disagree with it fundamentally. The modern world is, despite all of it's flaws(that we should all continue to work on), vastly superior in almost* every way to every single other era that has come before us. As someone who is diagnosed with mental illness myself I could not imagine the kinds of struggles I would have had to endure if I was born a mere 20 years earlier. Nowadays there is so much one can do to cope with mental illness that wasn't available so much as a decade ago that the idea that we should not strive to be healthy simply because people suck and our society has problems is repulsive to me and comes off as an excuse rather than any sort of rational explanation. I'm sure you meant nothing resembling making excuses with this quote but in my own(admittedly anecdotal) experience people with an illness like mine tend to go to great lengths to make excuses for their behavior rather than setting out improving themselves in any meaningful way.
Furthermore it has actually been since time immemorial a measure of strong character and personal strength to operate in and even prosper in not so favorable conditions. Human existence has always been rife with struggle and conflict and it's those who adapted to their situation that ultimately were able to overcome and transcend their situations. We could look at religion and mythology to see examples of this in the lives of Jesus or Buddha, or in just about all of history's most cherished individuals such as David Livingstone, Abraham Lincoln, Gandhi, T.E. Lawrence, Sir Fredrick Douglas, and countless others.
I guess my real problem with this quote is that it seems to be attempting to strike at those who are doing well despite their circumstances rather than offering useful advice to those who are struggling.
@@joeking6972 Thanks for you well thought out answer. I partly agree with it. I have done a lot self-reflecting too as someone who has suffered from many things and I'm no longer making excuses for myself. Modern society is very advanced so in a sense we sure are quite lucky to be alive now instead of being born earlier. However, life has always been more or less difficult for humans, but now it's no longer about physical survival. At least not in first world countries.
The modern individual's problem is that he has lost connection with his true self and with the world. Modern society reinforces ideas and beliefs that causes people to feel unwell because at least unconsciously they know that something is missing. Also anyone with any sense knows that this financial system we have is so very corupt. It benefits the few at the expense of everyone else. Humanity could do so much better, we could thrive as a global community instead of surrendering to greed and corruption.
I suggest to look up a speech by Dr. Gabor Mate. It's called How Culture Makes Us Feel Lost. Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell have a lot to say about this subject too.
@@BlondeManNoName >The modern individual's problem is that he has lost connection with his true self and with the world
Meh, I don't know about that. I don't think we ever got one to begin with.
I couldn't agree more and learned that from Michael Tsraion and it emensly reduced my anxiety.
@@BlondeManNoName hey thanks for your kind response friend I’ll look him up.
Oh how many times did normies tell me they want to be friends just to leave me behind as soon as I get a bit too weird. Great video. I find myself loosing more and more compassion for others as life doesn't offer me any as well. It's hard to stay a good person sometimes... You always wear the mask of normality. Let it slip once and you're alone again.
join the discord my guy i'd love to get to know a no bullshit kinda guy like you
Exactly!
How weird we talking? Not sure you can really blame them.
This hits hard. I have worn so many masks for so long even I barely know whose underneath anymore. And they didn't even work, I'm still alone. The only difference is the question of whether or not I'm even there anymore.
The most annoying thing that can happen to a person that has some emotional problems to say it lightly is to get ridiculed for being lonely by people around you .That feeling of me drinking coffee alone in a cafe place and people joking about my loneliness pisses me off without limits
I was curious about this bar close to my house and i went to check it out alone, there were so many groups there that i just walked away because the idea of going there alone was too embarrassing. Guess not all bars are like movies
same goes for me! i hate this mfking people! But we can't do anything about these burden of earth. We're helpless friend.
I am a mentally ill person, I have 5 real friends, because of my symptoms I chose solitude and to live my life alone without a partner because I don't want to burden him or her, I choose not to have have kids in order to avoid transmitting my sickness. I sometimes have depression which includes psychomotor retardation and anhedonia, the latest is the inability to experience pleasure. I got tired of pretending that I was normal then I stopped pretending in front of others and felt much better. Ive been bullied, it worsened my symptoms, i did 5 suicide attempts, in hospital i learned compassion and empathy seeing others suffer and thus i try not to inflict suffering on others. It's not my fault, i do what i can. I felt Arthurs pain in my every bone.
Being high functioning has its perks and its draw backs, telling people to avoid your triggers on a regular basis and then they think screw it one day and do it anyway thinking its funny and then act completely shocked when I go from completely calm to absolute psycho going through internal hell to keep myself under control is not the most fun. On the other hand if I weren't so high functioning I'd be a regular psychopath no doubt in my mind
For Fucking real right?
I felt this video so intensely. As someone with ASD/ADHD/Chronic severe depression/Social anxiety disorder, I completely understand and sympathize. Thank you.
I feel bad for you, as I who also have this list of disorders. I hope mushrooms will help.
All this talk about "fake realities" makes me wonder if all his stressful moments were exaggerated. Did he really get jumped by all those kid, or was it some hardened criminals? Did that woman really scold him for entertaining his child, or was she more calm? Did those guys really bully and beat him on that train, or was he so overwhelmed that he thought they were going too?
It's very common for mentally ill people to amplify how bad a situation is, was, or will be, and hallucinations can be more powerful than we think, but the level Arthur had with Sophie is not entirely realistic. Still, if we're taking into consideration his hallucinations and how strong they are, there's no telling how much was real or fake. This movie IS from Arthur's point of view, not everybody else's, so those unsettling scenes may have been a form of rationalizing his choices. It might be a reach, but I found it interesting.
Zenith i thought about this throughout the show. Interesting and deeper perspective that im sure does have an element of truth
Although it could be an intresting perspective i dont think its like that. I have mental illness and some of us do get treated like this, mostly people who have mental illnesses that make it hard to defend themselves
I have depression, anxiety, ptsd, etc etc etc whatever and so forth... this movie shows mental illness and holds no punches. The way they show it is beautiful and makes me feel seen. The people act like they are helping and get mad when we cant hold in ourselves anymore. It’s exhausting having to live in a world full of so much ignorance.
I saw this movie in theaters with my girlfriend, and I cried when Arthur writes “The worst part about having mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t.” I kept it to myself though. This written statement is true.
After watching this movie I started to realize that was what my ex expected of me, no matter how many times she said she accepted me, while refusing to understand a damn thing about me.
As a mentally ill person myself, I can’t explain how well this video depicts all of the things I’ve tried to communicate to people about this film. What I see in Arthur is not a violent and vindictive person due to his his illnesses. Does he end up a killer? Yes, but that’s not the point. What matters is that in the end this films shows me that someone not too different from myself can find his own definition of happiness.
I’ve had my mentally illnesses for most of my life, but it wasn’t until I saw Joker that I didn’t feel ridiculed and closed up amongst other people. When I saw the film I felt vindicated, and did in fact feel as though the public could finally witness something big that gave a glimpse, however faint, into the life of a mentally ill person.
Since seeing the movie I haven’t felt embarrassment from my illnesses. As a matter of fact I’ve learned to be comfortable with the things that are provoked by them. This movie unlocked so many ideas that I had been afraid of for so long. One of the most profound quotes in my opinion is when at the beginning Arthur says, “I just don’t want to feel so bad anymore.” That phrase comes up a lot in my life, but now rather than seeing it as debilitating, I see it as a necessary admission that I’m not as happy as I should be.
This film is dark and brutal and sad at times, but only one other movie has had quite a similar positive affect for me regarding some form of mental illness. And ironically, it also stars our boy Joaquin.
Thank you so much for this video.
Thank you! I have felt the same way, I hope you're doing well.
This part ( 7:40 to 8:10 ) hit so damn close, I legit had to pause the video and just breathe. It is literally me, I am that person that holds on for dear life to those single-digit moments in my life which are positive, and even create scenarios in my head of them continuing or somehow evolving into my life becoming happier. And every once in a while, I am brought back down to reality and it hurts so fucking much...Instead of violence like Arthur tho, the one thing that works for me is isolation, if I am alone, nothing can burst my bubble, I am safe in a way. I know that is a horrible way of dealing with it, much moreso in long tern like I have, moreso than a decade. I've tried to get out of the hole multiple times, but is so hard. Right now I am there, but depression and solitude have become so common, is just normal to me now.
Christ that sounds painful. I know that it's been 2 years since you made this post, and that you may have forgotten about it, but I really hope that things have gotten better for you since then at least in some way. No one should be left alone in such a dark place. Absolutely no one.
I met someone who very much was like Arthur and to an extent myself. At one point I believed the world was horrible and being mentally ill myself and unable to live effectively in a *society* I lashed out. Fortunately I was able to learn to cope with most of my disabilities in a healthy way and got help before it was too late. This girl I met was very similar to Arthur. She had a difficult home life, was on the spectrum, had been sexually assaulted, transitioned to female and had to go through the trauma of being ostracized and made fun of. I was completely supportive and she was quite frankly the most beautiful person I ever met and one that has left a lasting impact on me. Unlike me however, she snapped under the pressure and after several accounts of arson, assault, mentally and physically abusing me, distrubuting drugs and narcotics on my campus and almost killing 2 people with her car, it's safe to say she switched to the anarchist's mindset. She betrayed not only my feelings but my trust too and scared me again back onto a good path. Just like Batman and Joker we were essentially the same person, only on different paths.
Damn, at least you've learned from her. Hope you continue to be in a good position my dude
'She' transitioned?
Well, that didn't help. Even if they were in a trans supportive country like Sweden, results of such things don't actually help that much.
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
I mean dont use the word she that guy was mentally fucked normal girls really are not capable of such violence because they lack the T that man have so this guy was not only raped but he had gender disphoria so that guy was fucked and you shouldnt call him she because at the end of the day you are just making worse his illusions to any guy or girl reading this dont feed delusional peoples bullshit
Latioswar R actually, women are very much capable of that level of violence. There’s literally shows about cases like that.
@@latioswarr3785 I don't think she was delusional about her gender. She was both mentally and emotionally a woman. She wanted to transition before the assault anyway. Hell, she looked like Griffith from Berserk only with black hair before she transitioned too. What she was delusional about though was the world being out to get her and that getting help would kill her.
I love this video so much. You make me feel less alone man don’t stop what you’re doing, you’re saving lives. It’s like a an x-men school for gifted children, instead of freaks we learn that we can and are especially able to direct our craziness and energies to something good unlike most normies (no offense normies).
Mentail Ilness is stored in the balles
What? Balls? Heredetery!
I think one simple thing the movie points out clearly is the lack of compassion this world has, I think that alone could be the whole idea behind the movie, and what caused the Joker to go insane and start killing people, he became a product of his environment. This relates to real life on a scary level.
I think that, above anything, is the "take-home" lesson from this movie. Some of us are dealing with a lot in this world, in ways that others cannot understand, and compassion is really needed.
The line “pretending that you don’t have a mental illness” is something I experience every day. I laugh always the wrong moments, i say something that stops a conversation, my body is always moving, and that makes people feel uncomfortable. I am so happy you made this video, because it helped me to see i’m not alone in this. Joker has helped me so much, and that can no one take away from me. Thank you max
Very well said.
One of the things I've been doing all my life (and I'm sure others can relate), which I'm trying to stop doing, is constantly apologize and feel guilty, for being "weird". Only recently have I realized that its not my fault that I'm this way and that its not something I need to apologize for. Luckily, recently the people around me are trying to be supportive, even though they don't really understand what exactly my conditions are, at least they try to hold back the nagging, for the most part, which is a step in the right direction.
For clarity, I've been diagnosed with ADHD, Asperger's and depression.
The struggle is hard. I (I’m on the “lighter” side of the spectrum of ASD) sometimes feel like I am at the edge of an abyss of meaninglessness and chaos, devoid of love and hope. The way neurotypical people just talk the talk and not walk the walk about “inclusion” and more weasel words like that makes me kind of sick. Your explanation at the beginning of your video was eye-opening to me. I am afraid it did not give me much hope for the future. Then again, I’ll survive. Happily I have a lot of friends and family with whom I can trust to find care and love, so in the end I must consider myself lucky, and I do have many reasons to be genuinely happy.
You mastered the amazing skill of precise speech and being elloquent to defend against those false philanthropists, your way of uncovering the aspects you actually discuss shocks me
Arthur’s true mask was his smile he had nothing worth smiling about
The genuine smile came as joker
Thank you for posting